I`d love to see Alan do a programme on religion, he`s got such a way of putting things and asking questions, that he`d totally befuddle the pious god squad crowd of any religion.
True - it's like the idea of 'do I help the old lady cross the road to help her or because it'll make me look good in public?' - mentality and attitude plays a important role
I always figured religion was meant as a way of explaining things that couldn't be explained otherwise, i.e. the world being formed. But I do agree that once religion strays into more political territory, or even gaining as much power as political power, it starts to go downhill from there.
Wow, I absolutely agree with Stephen Fry - it's never your place to dictate how one human being should behave based on your personal beliefs. I'm not gay, but the religion that has been taught to me from a young age tells me that I'm not allowed to be if I want to, that it's wrong. Religion itself is very limiting - however, spirituality can be a wonderful thing. I think it's important to know the difference between the two.
i'm so glad u replied you're practically a philosopher in my book now and yeah, i've read it - what do u take me for? a non-stephen fry lover or something? :D i love it - stephen is so intelligent yet he never talks down to u and just seems like a genuinely lovely person i need to dig out the old biog now as i read it a few years back + my memory of it needs to be refreshed! i've added you as a friend on here so that if we continue this conversation, it won't be obscuring comments re this video!
I've always loved the moment at 1:35 when Stephen brings up his homosexuality, and you can see it registering in Alan's head that Stephen's probably endured much more vicious persecution in his lifetime from organised religion, but is still more humble and forgiving than Alan himself was willing to be.
Is Alan really such an adorably cute and naive little character as he portrays himself here, or is it an act for further comic effect? I feel compelled to hug him.
My far less eloquent summing up of this is, "believe what you want to and live according to any set of guidlines that will not hurt others, but don't you dare presume that you are privy to information that I am not. That your faith somehow makes you more human than someone who lives by rules they have discovered through life rather than through a very old book". Sorry for polluting Stephen Fry's wonderful wording there it's just a mantra that I try to live by and I wanted to rejoyce in it.
WELL SAID!!! Believe in whatever placebo makes you feel better. That's your decision and as long as your beliefs don't harm or hinder anybody else, then good luck to you and peace be with you. But when your beliefs stand in the way of others peace, progress or personal preferences they are wrongly meddling.
My point was not based so much on comparisons w/the animal kingdom, but upon anatomy. The fact that our very anatomical structure is designed to accomodate meat makes for a compelling argument that it is part of our natural diet. Animal behavior is a moot point. We could diverge from our natural behavior and eat gravel like birds, but it doesn't mean we should!
Yeah. People were trying to make out that all religions worship the same basic god. I was pointing out that this is not true. Most religions (such as the ones you named) do not worship the same god. -on a side not. The religions you listed were probably not great examples...as they are all dead religions. Also its quite an interesting fact that the Roman religion, was almost the same as the greeks...only they changed the names of the gods, Aries became Mars...Aphrodite became venus etc etc
"Someone said to me really angrily, who shall rename nameless, "animals were put on Earth for us to eat"" Sounds like something Jeremy Clarkson would actually say
@Xx13ratsxX Thank you for clarifying the fine nuances of atheism and its definitions. I am always glad to learn something new and refine my knowledge! :-)
lol! I love when Alan goes "boooah that was mad. I thought that was true for a minute" I had an experience like that in my life a while ago. At least I was still a child when it happened for me. I'm still puzzled by the fact that adults still believe in Noah, the plagues, and the Resurrection.
I guess it's an ability to be simulatiously curious and insecure. I think more than anything it's because I don't see them as contracdicting each other, rather both trying to answer the same question in a different way. I think we'd be a lot closer to finding the answers to the biggest questions of exsistance if science and relgion (or philosophy if you want) worked together instead of bickering with eachother. Also, I aprecciate your non-trolling and respectful responses. Kudos dude. :)
@metalsinani Theism/ Athiesm is about having/not having belief. Gnosticism and Agnosticism is about having/not having knowledge. On the question "do you believe in god?" you are either Theist or Atheist, its a dichotomy.
I do hope I misunderstood, because this completely broke my heart. I wudn't think of myself as an extremist, but i deeply love my religion, AND i deeply love Fry/Davies.
@ginganz13 The stuff on the brain organeles was very interesting. They were looking at the possibility that a lot of brain function occurs at sub atomic quantom particle states, and possibly with something that does not exist within our dimension. It was actually a friend of mine who was an ardent athieist who made me watch it on catchup TV.
i don't actually live in the UK, soo idk about how much/where it repeats and such. but i've heard (and read) that it will start up again early 2009 (i'm guessing january?) on BBC1.
"Tis the fool who shall bring in the brightest light of inspiration. Thank you Alan for that moment of passion. " The world would be a much better place if it were populated with fools of the caliber of Alan Davies.
very well said! i've been trying for years to phrase my "beliefs" as you have done and now i can just use this! (if you don't mind - although it's so good i'll use it with or without your consent!) it was very nice of you too for playing down your own interpretation in favour of stephen's despite yours being an excellent summary also thanks for this - strange, the places one finds these nuggets of wisdom!
Most of the people who tell me that religion is bunk don't know anything about religions. I've spent 27 years as a Catholic, and studied dozens of life belief systems. And I don't know nearly as much as those who say religion is "wrong" claim to know. I know my interpretation of the words I read, but I won't KNOW, really KNOW what comes after this life until I'm there. I WOULD be a liar if I said I knew for certain every detail.
There are even christians who discuss whether paul knew what impact his words would have on the future or not. And i'm with Fry on that as well, people can only believe. Some of course have been near death or dead for a while and revived, but their stories usually vary from bright light to out of body experience to nothing
Yeah I saw that, the way the poll results fell before and after the debate was just hilarious! To be honest though I think that's because Ann Widdecombe successfully pissed off every feminist in the room.
Well there are definitely huge risks with letting people figure out good and bad by themselves, pretty much every atrocity has been committed by someone who figured that they knew the correct way to be right. Some sort of group consensus and interaction with other things should decide it. Or a big bunch of rules formulated core principles where everyone checks up on the logic to make sure it's sound. That'd be scientific. Will continue on next post :D
I wouldn't go so far as to say that an argument from nature is a logical fallacy, but rather that it's comparing apples and oranges. Morality is a human concept, whereas the only good/bad standard in nature is the most survivable organism.
I am a catholic and have been all my life but I do agree with what he is saying. I also think that while the official catholic view of things like homosexuality is that they are wrong, many catholics my self included have no problem with it what so ever. However, I do feel that sometimes the problem which stephen is talking about can go the other way with catholics who are forced by the law to accept things that they don't feel is correct or do things that are against their religious beliefs.
I agree with Mr Fry's view, believe what you wish but do not try and tell anyone else how to live... If more people felt like this there might be less conflict in the world.
The massive amount of culture shaped and maintained through various religions is undeniable. In some ways it is primitive and nonsense, in many others it is beautiful and inspired. Just because you and I don't agree with it doesn't take away its value as a whole.
with all do respect i did say "imo" (in my opinion) and i'm not a person to lie just to be liked by others. if you disagree with my view thats fair enough :)
Thank you very much! Of course I don't mind you repeting what I wrote, frankly I am honoured that anyone would think my words worthy of repeting! My life is now complete, something I wrote has been mentioned in the same sentence as something by Stephen Fry! Have you read his autobiography by any chance?
Each person is entitled to their opinions and beliefs. Having them doesn't make them wrong or right, just human. While forcing them upon others is tyrannical and judging, not disagreeing, judging others for having differed opinions is arrogant, foolish or egotistical. Human beings will never be 100% right about everything, thinking this helps keep you sane in an "opinionated" world.
What I meant was why did this make the cut vs. say the discussion on whether ventriloquism is the oldest profession or prostitution. One answer would be that QI is not meant to be a provocative political show, which I realized myself after my righteous indignation had passed. :) But Thanks I guess!
I think a lot of Stephens answer comes from him being gay and religion causing people to tell him he'll burn in hell and make people hate him for who he fancies, which is of course a load of rubbish, but I think that has a lot to do with how he feels and he's completely right on it as usual
There is also the option that the diversity of religion was intentional, designed to apeal to peoples individual personality. "God can be reached by many paths" so to speak. Though this can only work if, like Fry said, we stop trying to ram religion down one anothers throats and follow our own hearts. Though admittedly this theory does not stand up well to Occam's Razor.
@Unlocktube Quite agree. One can not subscribe to a faith and go around cuddling others. It doesn't work and it's not in the club rules!! Bugger the lot of them and let the rest of us enjoy life how we want to
Thank you Stephen for offering a well thought out and considered point of view, thank you Alan Davies for echoing my own occasional disbelief at what people believe. They have every right to do so but it's completely incomprehensible to me so thanks you two!
Some tribes ate their enemies, other humans, to digest mana in its purest form. Mana gave them their strength, agility and spirit. All words later adopted by roleplaying games. As for religion, if God can do anything, He can create an object so heavy that he can't lift it, which is quite the paradox for any supposed can-do-everything diety.
sorry, don't know if you meant to take the 'foolish' and 'scared' part back too.. but i think it is true. i think foolishness and ignorance are siblings. and they are scared b/c fear is what drives them to do good/not go to hell. or w/e. and according to wikipedia. about 88% of the people are religious! how crazy is that.
I was raised catholic, and I respect the values that any religion holds. However I do not like it when it is forced on people. Religion is a belief and respecting those beliefs, that is the whole point of religion...otherwise it would be fact.
@metalsinani I think it depends on the definition of Atheist. I don't treat Atheism as a religion or a belief that there is no god...I'm just convinced that there isn't one. I don't 'believe' in how things are, I simply understand the fact..and the only thing that can disprove fact is another fact with more evidence. However I do agree with you that there are people who don't beleive in god but perhaps are aware or open to the idea that there is a divine province outside our understanding.
Oh, I love Stephen Fry! He's absolutely brilliant. I must meet him and tell him how brilliant he is, even if he already knows it.
Stephen Fry would make an excellent pm! So open and understanding..but yet so rational!
thanks.
i have all the dvds but i can't remember all the outtakes.
i am loving the new series
=)
This was like watching a loving father figure try to calm his young son down after he got bullied. D'awwh. Poor Alan.
"ooh 'ello we've started a movement'
I love Alan :')
"Why do people believe all this stuff?"
"Because they're foolish and ignorant and scared."
I love Stephen Fry.
I`d love to see Alan do a programme on religion, he`s got such a way of putting things and asking questions, that he`d totally befuddle the pious god squad crowd of any religion.
*is unable to think of witty and intelligent reply, so blinded am I by the humour and wisdom of Mr. Stephen Fry : )
Here here, truth if there ever was. Thank you Steven for being a beacon of reason in this mad world.
True - it's like the idea of 'do I help the old lady cross the road to help her or because it'll make me look good in public?' - mentality and attitude plays a important role
I always figured religion was meant as a way of explaining things that couldn't be explained otherwise, i.e. the world being formed.
But I do agree that once religion strays into more political territory, or even gaining as much power as political power, it starts to go downhill from there.
Very true, also very serious for a comedy programme and probably the season it wasn't transmitted.
I love Stephen Fry.
A brilliant and intelligent man.
Wow, I absolutely agree with Stephen Fry - it's never your place to dictate how one human being should behave based on your personal beliefs. I'm not gay, but the religion that has been taught to me from a young age tells me that I'm not allowed to be if I want to, that it's wrong.
Religion itself is very limiting - however, spirituality can be a wonderful thing. I think it's important to know the difference between the two.
This might have been Untransmitted in other countries but it was shown in the UK, I remember watching it.
i'm so glad u replied
you're practically a philosopher in my book now
and yeah, i've read it - what do u take me for? a non-stephen fry lover or something? :D
i love it - stephen is so intelligent yet he never talks down to u and just seems like a genuinely lovely person
i need to dig out the old biog now as i read it a few years back + my memory of it needs to be refreshed!
i've added you as a friend on here so that if we continue this conversation, it won't be obscuring comments re this video!
I've always loved the moment at 1:35 when Stephen brings up his homosexuality, and you can see it registering in Alan's head that Stephen's probably endured much more vicious persecution in his lifetime from organised religion, but is still more humble and forgiving than Alan himself was willing to be.
awesome, fry and alan speaking beautiful sense, so i take it by untransmitted this didn't go out.
It's hilarious that this programme used to be shown on the same channel as "songs of praise".
Is Alan really such an adorably cute and naive little character as he portrays himself here, or is it an act for further comic effect?
I feel compelled to hug him.
My far less eloquent summing up of this is, "believe what you want to and live according to any set of guidlines that will not hurt others, but don't you dare presume that you are privy to information that I am not. That your faith somehow makes you more human than someone who lives by rules they have discovered through life rather than through a very old book". Sorry for polluting Stephen Fry's wonderful wording there it's just a mantra that I try to live by and I wanted to rejoyce in it.
WELL SAID!!!
Believe in whatever placebo makes you feel better. That's your decision and as long as your beliefs don't harm or hinder anybody else, then good luck to you and peace be with you.
But when your beliefs stand in the way of others peace, progress or personal preferences they are wrongly meddling.
My point was not based so much on comparisons w/the animal kingdom, but upon anatomy. The fact that our very anatomical structure is designed to accomodate meat makes for a compelling argument that it is part of our natural diet. Animal behavior is a moot point. We could diverge from our natural behavior and eat gravel like birds, but it doesn't mean we should!
Yeah. People were trying to make out that all religions worship the same basic god. I was pointing out that this is not true. Most religions (such as the ones you named) do not worship the same god.
-on a side not. The religions you listed were probably not great examples...as they are all dead religions.
Also its quite an interesting fact that the Roman religion, was almost the same as the greeks...only they changed the names of the gods, Aries became Mars...Aphrodite became venus etc etc
"Someone said to me really angrily, who shall rename nameless, "animals were put on Earth for us to eat"" Sounds like something Jeremy Clarkson would actually say
@Xx13ratsxX
Thank you for clarifying the fine nuances of atheism and its definitions. I am always glad to learn something new and refine my knowledge! :-)
I absolutely love Stephen here.
Thou shalt not question Stephen Fry.
lol! I love when Alan goes "boooah that was mad. I thought that was true for a minute"
I had an experience like that in my life a while ago. At least I was still a child when it happened for me. I'm still puzzled by the fact that adults still believe in Noah, the plagues, and the Resurrection.
I agree with you that we eat too much meat. My disagreement is with those who say we shouldn't eat meat at all.
I love Alan! He's so cute and innocent! Just like a child :)
@GeorgeMaier not sure if you've seen the picture of the space shuttle saying "science flys you to the moon, religeon flys you into buildings"
he pretty much did actually, on the "intelligence squared debate"
What he said is people can believe whatever they like, but it doesn't give them the right to tell other people how to behave.
@graceygrumble oh good to hear. Bravo!
Alan is completely underrated.
I get the feeling that if he wanted, stephen could single handedly bring down religion with a well worded sentence.
Alan is soo adorable!!
This clip is brilliant!! couldn't agree more!! if it was not broadcast then can i inquire where it came from? was it on one of the DVD's?
Fry = The plain old truth of how it is. Legend.
I guess it's an ability to be simulatiously curious and insecure. I think more than anything it's because I don't see them as contracdicting each other, rather both trying to answer the same question in a different way. I think we'd be a lot closer to finding the answers to the biggest questions of exsistance if science and relgion (or philosophy if you want) worked together instead of bickering with eachother. Also, I aprecciate your non-trolling and respectful responses. Kudos dude. :)
@metalsinani Theism/ Athiesm is about having/not having belief. Gnosticism and Agnosticism is about having/not having knowledge. On the question "do you believe in god?" you are either Theist or Atheist, its a dichotomy.
I do hope I misunderstood, because this completely broke my heart. I wudn't think of myself as an extremist, but i deeply love my religion, AND i deeply love Fry/Davies.
@ginganz13 The stuff on the brain organeles was very interesting. They were looking at the possibility that a lot of brain function occurs at sub atomic quantom particle states, and possibly with something that does not exist within our dimension. It was actually a friend of mine who was an ardent athieist who made me watch it on
catchup TV.
@cordeliaistheone If anyone is curious Cordeliaistheone and I are now good friends (although we've never met). I credit this to Stephen Fry.
Right on Fry!!
This was broadcasted.
Not quite sure why this has untransmitted in the title.
i don't actually live in the UK, soo idk about how much/where it repeats and such. but i've heard (and read) that it will start up again early 2009 (i'm guessing january?) on BBC1.
"Tis the fool who shall bring in the brightest light of inspiration. Thank you Alan for that moment of passion. "
The world would be a much better place if it were populated with fools of the caliber of Alan Davies.
very well said!
i've been trying for years to phrase my "beliefs" as you have done and now i can just use this! (if you don't mind - although it's so good i'll use it with or without your consent!)
it was very nice of you too for playing down your own interpretation in favour of stephen's despite yours being an excellent summary also
thanks for this - strange, the places one finds these nuggets of wisdom!
Most of the people who tell me that religion is bunk don't know anything about religions. I've spent 27 years as a Catholic, and studied dozens of life belief systems. And I don't know nearly as much as those who say religion is "wrong" claim to know. I know my interpretation of the words I read, but I won't KNOW, really KNOW what comes after this life until I'm there. I WOULD be a liar if I said I knew for certain every detail.
I poked myself in the eye with a slice of pizza yesterday.
alan davies made this clip.
That's where I draw the line, too. Believe what you want, I don't care, but don't tell me squat. I have my beliefs and don't force tham on others.
There are even christians who discuss whether paul knew what impact his words would have on the future or not.
And i'm with Fry on that as well, people can only believe. Some of course have been near death or dead for a while and revived, but their stories usually vary from bright light to out of body experience to nothing
19 devout Christians missed the Like button.
"Access to revealed truth" indeed, my dear Stephen!!!!
Tell it! Bravo to Alan from bring it up!!!!!
HA! After all Alan's mocking Stephen Fry for using "Hullo" to express surprise, he's done it himself. "Hullo, we've started a movement!" GOTCHA!
Imagine what beauty and truth we may of learned if Alan has shut up a bit more.
This American loves Stephen Fry.
Aww Alan sounds genuinely upset when he's talking.
Yeah I saw that, the way the poll results fell before and after the debate was just hilarious! To be honest though I think that's because Ann Widdecombe successfully pissed off every feminist in the room.
Well there are definitely huge risks with letting people figure out good and bad by themselves, pretty much every atrocity has been committed by someone who figured that they knew the correct way to be right. Some sort of group consensus and interaction with other things should decide it. Or a big bunch of rules formulated core principles where everyone checks up on the logic to make sure it's sound. That'd be scientific. Will continue on next post :D
I wouldn't go so far as to say that an argument from nature is a logical fallacy, but rather that it's comparing apples and oranges. Morality is a human concept, whereas the only good/bad standard in nature is the most survivable organism.
good on Stephen Fry, I knew a polymath like him doesn't stand for bogus ideas.
Well said Mr Fry! :)
I am a catholic and have been all my life but I do agree with what he is saying. I also think that while the official catholic view of things like homosexuality is that they are wrong, many catholics my self included have no problem with it what so ever. However, I do feel that sometimes the problem which stephen is talking about can go the other way with catholics who are forced by the law to accept things that they don't feel is correct or do things that are against their religious beliefs.
Well I've learned never to get into a debate with Stephen Fry.
I agree with Mr Fry's view, believe what you wish but do not try and tell anyone else how to live... If more people felt like this there might be less conflict in the world.
As a friend of mine pointed out (who is an atheist) if he gets to heaven and god asks him to explain his sins he'll say 'well you made me'.
@thecommabandit Yup. "Sorry. Called it like I saw it. So do I get in or not?" Questions about the music available, etc., can wait.
The massive amount of culture shaped and maintained through various religions is undeniable. In some ways it is primitive and nonsense, in many others it is beautiful and inspired. Just because you and I don't agree with it doesn't take away its value as a whole.
A friend of mine said the best part of living in Britain is you're never more than a few hundred miles from Stephen Fry.
There was a piece of graffiti just after the WTC attacks, and it said "God, please save us from those who believe in you".
with all do respect i did say "imo" (in my opinion) and i'm not a person to lie just to be liked by others. if you disagree with my view thats fair enough :)
In support of your argument, mull this one over: there is a strong difference between God (regardless of religion) and its Church/followers
Always wondered where games get the concept of 'mana'! Now I know :)
I love Alan Davis : D I really agree with him here. Bit harsh someone said that to him though :( I'm a vegetarian.
The funny thing is the Britain is the USAs closest allie, and yet they don't know we are the most athiest nation on Earth bar none!
Here endeth the lesson for today!! :oD
Hehe, Alan says 'oh hullo' in this episode, even though he claimed he never uses the phrase in another clip if I remember right :3
So true. And SOOO funny when Alans like,
"Oh, hello, we've started a movement!"
Thank you very much! Of course I don't mind you repeting what I wrote, frankly I am honoured that anyone would think my words worthy of repeting! My life is now complete, something I wrote has been mentioned in the same sentence as something by Stephen Fry!
Have you read his autobiography by any chance?
well said Alan
Each person is entitled to their opinions and beliefs. Having them doesn't make them wrong or right, just human. While forcing them upon others is tyrannical and judging, not disagreeing, judging others for having differed opinions is arrogant, foolish or egotistical. Human beings will never be 100% right about everything, thinking this helps keep you sane in an "opinionated" world.
i love you stephen!
I as pissed as Alan is about these things, and one day hope to be wise about it like Stephen .
@warren4184 Yes to you both. I think religion will have to eliminate proselytizing, paradoxically, to survive.
What I meant was why did this make the cut vs. say the discussion on whether ventriloquism is the oldest profession or prostitution.
One answer would be that QI is not meant to be a provocative political show, which I realized myself after my righteous indignation had passed. :) But Thanks I guess!
@trlkly he did say "lying or foolish"
I think a lot of Stephens answer comes from him being gay and religion causing people to tell him he'll burn in hell and make people hate him for who he fancies, which is of course a load of rubbish, but I think that has a lot to do with how he feels and he's completely right on it as usual
As an atheist I am more worried about people who firmly believe in the religion of CT and even Alan fell for one about the moon landings .
There is also the option that the diversity of religion was intentional, designed to apeal to peoples individual personality. "God can be reached by many paths" so to speak. Though this can only work if, like Fry said, we stop trying to ram religion down one anothers throats and follow our own hearts. Though admittedly this theory does not stand up well to Occam's Razor.
@hakaboy6924 That is actually really insightful, well done!
@Unlocktube Quite agree. One can not subscribe to a faith and go around cuddling others. It doesn't work and it's not in the club rules!! Bugger the lot of them and let the rest of us enjoy life how we want to
Thank you Stephen for offering a well thought out and considered point of view, thank you Alan Davies for echoing my own occasional disbelief at what people believe. They have every right to do so but it's completely incomprehensible to me so thanks you two!
Some tribes ate their enemies, other humans, to digest mana in its purest form. Mana gave them their strength, agility and spirit. All words later adopted by roleplaying games.
As for religion, if God can do anything, He can create an object so heavy that he can't lift it, which is quite the paradox for any supposed can-do-everything diety.
sorry, don't know if you meant to take the 'foolish' and 'scared' part back too.. but i think it is true.
i think foolishness and ignorance are siblings. and they are scared b/c fear is what drives them to do good/not go to hell. or w/e.
and according to wikipedia. about 88% of the people are religious! how crazy is that.
I was raised catholic, and I respect the values that any religion holds. However I do not like it when it is forced on people.
Religion is a belief and respecting those beliefs, that is the whole point of religion...otherwise it would be fact.
@metalsinani I think it depends on the definition of Atheist. I don't treat Atheism as a religion or a belief that there is no god...I'm just convinced that there isn't one. I don't 'believe' in how things are, I simply understand the fact..and the only thing that can disprove fact is another fact with more evidence.
However I do agree with you that there are people who don't beleive in god but perhaps are aware or open to the idea that there is a divine province outside our understanding.