Landmark Forum - Is it a cult? My honest opinion and what I got from the Landmark Forum
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
- Recently I attended the Landmark Forum in central London. In this video I offer my thoughts on the forum and whether I would recommend people attending.
I had some very insightful experiences while doing Landmark which really opened up a lot of possibilities in my life.
There are a lot of videos discussing whether Landmark is a cult online and after attending the forum I definitely have my own opinion on whether Landmark is a cult.
Landmark forum review | should you do landmark | Did Landmark change my life | Is landmark a cult
I did Landmark in London 20 years ago. I felt stuck & took a leap to change my life. There was enormous pressure for participants to recruit others and take one course after another. Forums can bring up big stuff sexual abuse, racism and to this day I think about how these were handled. I took what I needed & swiflty moved on. I wouldn't recommend.
Landmark forum was not for me. It wasn't worth the money or the time in my opinion. I know some people that really got a lot out of this program. It just wasn't for me.
I wouldn’t recommend landmark forum. It felt like therapy group where they want everyone to share things very personal about themselves one by one. Also, most of the stuff they say didn’t make sense to me I didn’t go to any other one after the first try. Didn’t recommend it to anyone neither.
They now do advertising, they do not courses at the Landmark do it on the internet it still costs the same money.
All you had to do was read some existentialist authors, Nietzsche, Buddhism, Heidegger and some of the other sources they rip off without acknowledging their sources to get this content. Next what about their aggressive pyramidal sales pitch approach and the dishonesty of defining 'integrity' as how many of your family members and friends you can pressure into signing up for their expensive courses?
I agree regarding reading personal development
Everything your saying sounds like a scam/cult, but the question is how many times did u go back to do the course?
Just the once and I don't think I'd do it again. Definitely not a scam and I'll cover that in a few other things but there are some culty aspects
@@alexorlandocross I think you need to broaden your definition of what a cult is. It's not just people wearing hoods and drinking poison Kool-Aid.
thomas jackson Scientology?
I took the Forum 20 years ago and I found it to be a very empowering experience. I dont believe it to be a cult and a big plus is its emphasis on restoring relationships. Many cults do exactly the opposite. I recommend it. Maybe its not for everybody but it certainly was worth it for me. Thank you for your post.
@@brucemunton5992 u got to understand it was 20 years ago for u, thinks change a lot in our Society from 9/11 to this COVID-19/pandemic, plus we live in a smarter generation from the Technology and from learning from the past and other people’s mistakes🗣🗣🗣💯
I just don't understand why it's so dang long! Also, what parts of it made you cry? Was it stories from other participants or something that was presented?
I'm currently doing it right now here in Chicago. The first day really got me thinking about my life, Def got some some clarity. But the second day started off well but my instructor seems to call the same people up and the stories while sad kind of seems like actors. Bad ones if that. Then we spent the last 2 hours talking about the advanced course! For only $800+ ! On zoom... then our homework is to recruit at least 3 people. Also had an exercise where we closed our eyes and had to "pull" out our fear and I was just in shocked on how silly it is.
Idk I feel like I got what I needed and I wanna go home
I hope you got what you came for. Did you?
All you need to do is read Eckhart Tolle and you're good. Same ideas
I thought this too !! I took landmark education and then I read a new earth by tolle and thought it was the same thing!!
@@itydity4743 yeah I got sucked into the advanced course and then did the leadership course but I stopped after a few days. It's more or less the same thing you hear in the original forum. Definitely interesting stuff though.
Just got spiritually abused out of 1200$ after a landmark session. Pitted my wife against me, questioned my morality for having hesitation for wanting to commit, proceeded to ask what childhood trauma I had when I was 3 that was preventing me from committing. wife apologized to me after we had time to reflect, as she praised my wife’s behavior as morally good for wanting to commit. I could see my wife was getting anxious and agitated with my resistance for wanting to commit on the scene, so to hold the peace I agreed to sign up. Strange thing man… strange strange thing
First time I met these people I might add
I’m sorry you had that experience.
Hi Alex. Thank you for sharing your experiences with Landmark. I did Landmark in 2011 when I was 24 in London. Like you, I had some amazing breakthroughs. I also did the Advanced Course, which I don't think had as much impact on me as the Forum itself, but I would not have known if I did not try. My friends got abit sick of me talking about it all the time, because I was so enthusiastic to share my experiences. My energy levels shot right up and I was just soooo enthusiastic about life, it was abit sickening from someone viewing on the outside! I even arranged a private landmark intro evening for my friends - that was how enthusiastic I was. I think they started worrying about me ever so slightly as I acted like I was brain washed! But to me, life was anything I'd like to create. How empowering was that? 9 years on... I am still grateful I went to the Forum. Other people's comments about Landmark being like a cult used to bother me, but not anymore. I was a participant, I made a choice to stay and complete the programme, and I am still certain to this day it was the right choice for me. In my friendship circle back then, no one signed up! Lol, its quite funny looking back. All my friends are doctors, including myself, and they didn't think there was anything they needed "fixing". I think that is why people get deterred. I just had a thought: "Do you think Newton discovered gravity because he thought there was something wrong with the world?" How can we learn/develop, if the only thing that drives us to develop is thinking there was something wrong with us? How about... just being curious? Landmark is not for everyone, but it was for me.
That sounds a lot like the experience I had in 1998. Lit up like a 100 watt bulb. A 3 day trip to outer space. All these people panicking about cults & brainwashing are comical to me, in the same way that Pizzagate is comical.
gravity doesn't exist dummy lol bad example stupid
@@asadchoudhrya Sure it doesn’t dummy. Comment noted. Thank you.
Sheeple
It's a cult and they do use brainwashing techniques, by manipulating the environment, depriving you of food, sleep, and contact with the outside world, they shut down your ability to think critically and resist any of the exercises. "Getting it" is about breaking down your old self and rebuilding you with their new thought programming.
I like my learning in bullet points with actionable steeps . This would drive me nuts. And I love arguing with people that are rude…. These people sound awful
It sounds similar to the Pema chodron bhuddist books I've been reading when sge talks about " dropping the story line"
Hi mate, good video and nice to see an actual balanced viewpoint. I'm trying to understand a lot about there LGATs, and i know you probably signed an NDA so might not say but does the landmark course have the same underlying build of pressure then big emotional realease/breakdown near the end where people share their deepest darkest traumas?
Hello All, I’m late to the party. Better late than never!! Question, I’m super curious about how everyone makes up their own truth about situations or people or whatever. I get that and can absolutely see that that’s what happens. But what is the point Landmark is making? What is their teaching regarding this? Anyone have thoughts??? Please share 😁👍😁. Thanks everyone!!!!
Good review, very similar to my own experience with it many yrs ago. My biggest complaint was the time spent talking about bringing in new people, aka the enrollment conversation. I did bring friends, not because Landmark wanted me to, but because I truly believed they'd find it valuable. Some did, some didn't. Personally, I would have paid $10k for the incredible experience I had there, even if I had taken nothing away beyond the roller coaster weekend.
I think you're the definition of the word SUCKER! tk
@@celestian1000 Yes, and I'd glady get "suckered" all over again. Of course, I don't live in fear of being brainwashed, lol.
I thought it was life changing
"Landmark is controversial, some people say it's the most enlightening thing they've ever experienced, and others say it's a cult."
Some people say? What do the experts on cults say? Margaret Singer, Rick Alan Ross, Steve Hassan, they all say these groups fit the thought reform model of a cult.
Even Eckarhat tolle took all his work from the Buddhist monk Tich Nacht Hanh ,the reason I found Ekhart Tolls book restrictive is because it is ,when you do the real Practise that Tich Nacht hanh teaches it encompasses self compassion and a focus on the TH middle way ,that its ok to not do mindfulness breathing mediation all day its fine to do it for 30 min a day and you will still gain huge benefits where as Ekhart is all of nothing
Let me start off by saying I first did the Landmark Forum about 20 years ago. At the time I had participated in a number of trainings and teachings, so I guess I was used to being around people that have a shared experience and such. If you've never studied what a cult is it's easy to throw out the word to try to describe Landmark. Fundamentally cults will try to isolate people by having them believe that the group is the most important thing. Cult members will disconnect from their families and friends in order to follow the cult.
Landmark actually does the opposite. Landmark has people connect with the people in their lives in a much deeper way than they may have ever been able to.
Landmark has an uncommon way of using languaging. Much the same way a doctor will us specific languaging when talking about the body and illness. Languaging that is specific to being a doctor. The same could be said for being an auto mechanic. Pick any hobby or profession and there will be a way of speaking that is unique to that endeavor. So the way Landmark uses languaging doesn't make it a cult.
People have mentioned how long the course is, what they haven't said is that it is jammed packed full of topics in the conversation. If you have to get up to use the restroom, when you get back you would have missed something. The conversation is nonstop. There are plenty of breaks, you just have to manage your bladder so that you don't miss something. The weekend goes by really fast.
I'm not sure how much the Forum is these days but I have to guess it's somewhere in the ballpark of 600.00 or 700.00 bucks give or take. That may sound like a lot, but if you've ever done any professional training weekends, say sales training, you're looking at 3 to 4 thousand dollars for a weekend course. I do think Landmark could do a better job up front in explaining the curriculum instead of spending so much time talking about the next course. I can see how that would rub some people the wrong way.
There are actually three phases to Landmark's methodology. The first phase is the Landmark Forum. People produce incredible breakthroughs in their live in that course. The Forum is really about dealing with all those decisions that we made about how life is, what is safe, and what is possible for us. These are decisions we made in the past that influence life today. Unless you're eight we have years of stuff to get through. But when you get through it you start to see that there are no decisions left from the past influencing your future. Your future is a blank canvas so to speak. Landmark also knows that nature abhors a vacuum and will fill you blank canvas for you if you don't manage it. For this reason a 10 session weekly seminar series is included in the price of your Forum. Yes included, in other words it's free.
The second phase, called the Advance Course, is about starting to create a future that you want. It's about getting that truly anything is possible if you create it to be. This however creates a new problem. The people and the circumstances in your live haven't really changed. They don't know what you've created for yourself and your future. They will relate to you the same way that they have always related to you. Remember it's only been two weekends. That is where phase three comes into play.
The third phase is call the Self Expression and Leadership Course. This is the longest and yet the cheapest of the three. This course spans about three months. In this course you will be coached to create a project that benefits one of your communities and expresses who you now are. You'll be coached in developing a project, setting milestones, managing people and producing results, and how to have conversations that really make a difference with people. This was by far my favorite phase.
All told the three phases takes about six months to complete, so no it's not a quick fix. The cost is just north of 2 grand, not bad for six months of training and you don't pay all at once.
I could go on but I think I've said enough. Landmark is definitely worth it if you're willing to put in the effort to transform your life. Landmark can't do it for you, they can only show you a way.
Or just read Eckhart Tolle and you're set. Same ideas for sure.
@@frameofmind229 I read Tolle and did Landmark. Two distinct epistemologies .
Erhards genuis is creating an epistemolgy of generating abstractions from nothing
Best review ever! To me
It was life changing. I think the people that don’t get out of it are the ones that aren’t open minded or not yet ready to let go of their old ways of being.. is hard to explain how it will change your life and just help you release so much pressure and anxiety caused by events in life and what people make you want you to believe. We have the power to re create our own world our own way now ahhhhh I just feel so much peace. If you try it that might be the most valuable thing you’ve ever gotten in your whole life!
I got a lot out of it. It was well worth 3 days of my life, at the time. I don't recall any kind of pressure or any cult nonsense. You do it once, and you are done.
Grazie!!
Landmark Forum is a version of EST (Erhard Seminars Training). EST was an organization, founded by Werner Erhard in 1971. As EST grew, so did criticism. It was accused of mind control and labeled a cult by some critics who said that it exploited its followers by recruiting and offering numerous "graduate seminars." According to a 1991 report by the Los Angeles Times, EST had been the target of a smear campaign by the Church of Scientology. Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard (who died in 1986) believed that Erhard had copied Scientology. Erhard disputed this, saying that est was essentially different despite some similarities. Pretty effen cultish to me...
But isnt the whole point that we're not all adults that have shit figured out? "Eh they're adults so they should know to stand their ground" seems exploitative due to the nature and goal of the course
just wait .... I've done this course over 15 yrs ago and if I keep clear and don't make it mean anything you get through so much....
Great and honest review
I started it in '86 right when it changed from EST to :
The Forum.
Did it 3 times, 6 day twice, MOE, and the PNE.
IT GROWS WITH YOU.
Want to be friends? Would you like to change this world?
try doing a job that you hate for 12 hours a day. same shit except you don't have to pay for it
thank you alex
I understand that you got some value from it ... but so do people on Scientology .. I think I understand how they get you to break down your barriers to make the changes and work on what you need to. ( looks like it begins with exhausting you mentally and physically ) Yes .. it sounds cultish... sounds like not something I would recommend to a person that is vulnerable .. They'd be spending their life savings on this .. just like scientology does.. so far actually sounds like a repackaging of scientology
The Scientology comparison is very relevant and a comparison that can be seen across the internet. I agree re vulnerable people and not recommending to them
Some people need exhausting or they have nowhere to start from. Some don't need that. I didn't and I didn't appreciate that aspect but it didn't matter because that's how it played out. When I did it I was in a pretty vulnerable state. After taking it I became more free to make responsible decisions and own them completely. I also very much felt like I needed help to learn how to walk in this new way of being with the context and paradigms being moved so far out of my way. A feeling that i needed more. I got over that pretty quick and became quite resilient and motivated to create things I'd wanted. What is enjoyable is the ability to process clearly and experience things directly. The BS becomes an objectified thing. You're aware of exactly how much of it you're coming up with. Game playing out of desperation, etc.
Only when you are coaxed to a place where all thinking ends can you then turn back and clearly see what your brain is and was actually doing. You do this yourself. No one tells you what's there. It's also not invented from imagination. It's instantly recognizable when it happens. Much like when soneone's life flashes before their eyes is the only way i can describe it. It comes rushing and all your thoughts are there attached to it every step of the way shaping many aspects of your life in both seeking and avoiding behaviours. The 'secret you' is on display. You can keep it or share it but you become intensely aware of it.
People call it cultish and brainwashing and theorize it with concepts which comes close but just involves more thoughts and then walks right past it. You're not told what to think, you're taught to stop thinking which is not an easy thing to do. No one then describes your self to you, you see it in 3d technicolour. Everything becomes very present and noticeable. It's a profound experience that allows a person an increased ability to manage their lives, thoughts and emotions which doesn't put them in a more vulnerable position, quite the opposite in fact. I haven't done aything with the forum in 20 years. I believe that a person could do this on their own with no help, however I think it would take them decades or a lifetime to have it able to be experienced in a matter of days or weeks. The environment in which it would be possible is not easy to come by.
As far as scientology goes, it's my understanding that there were some small elements taken from scientology. In my mind these would be some of the more valid parts. Hubbard was known to have gained access to a library of decades of discarded psychological research which he made good use of. If even a small part of scientology is helpful without the other bogus elements then that could be said to be helpful. Saying Landmark is like scientology is akin to saying a BLT is a caesar salad because it has some lettuce in it. Having said that, Landmark owes much more to Zen Buddhism than scientology. If Zen Buddhism is a cult, who then owns the enlightened? You're just enlightened and pay homage to the monastery. Not now imprisoned by it. It's much the same. Enlightenment is no small thing. As Werner Erhard said in a recent interview I watched on youtube, which is what brought me here, "When you get it, some people become overly enthusiastic about it". I don't blame them.
@@alexorlandocross Hi Alex. It seems that a lot of people have very much the same experience as you, of experiencing a state of euphoria and "breakthroughs" and most (it seems) are not psychologically harmed. You mentioned taking drugs before, and likening the transformation to a drug high (also a comparison that's been made often), but it reveals why some people have very bad reactions to participation. Dr. John Hunter completed a PH.D. on programs like Landmark (they are not as unique as they'd like you to believe) and he explains why the processes cause very serious problems for some. He also explains the influence processes used (which participants are unaware of). That Landmark benefits many participants is not incompatible with Landmark using unethical indoctrination techniques that harm some participants psychologically and cause rifts in many relationships. The way that Landmark has challenged free speech alone should be reason enough to question supporting them. For a short summary of the likely neurobiology of Landmark's program, see:
thoughtleader.co.za/psyssa/2019/05/20/the-first-rule-of-large-group-awareness-trainings/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=e24f22355ee4a06f35f7f4f0912401b59a9c5b14-1584883153-0-ATctvMs6oh6wTCr_0-58wCTVg5hgGtwXNJ8dpkRa_iNq3ZAmWN-tl-GLJjl0gbhO2TxonQ9j8f8jkSTGZ7VaHOJRlQ6nHNr9Jtk659F16zeHmMeF7nWHgcYjW8Lg-OvgniOo-t8QflEOQ7BvQCAiV-aINfyZ3RM3lt3Q6e-VWe3s4UNZKwiA92dLrck2DLjWrGt0QqipZsI5a0zglXvXkFEbRkFwf1h53h7ZFGtQyKJ490G6FRcm_M6CyEDOoJ1bl2Rv8_8MlVM6xd027yZ0dwDJQHscA7DxwsaqwsjdaFqk8Cu5t0wfhgtslFs6Ih0bAq8Wr0OiWH20dmWZvoT6d1ifLCgpFr2h5r4D33bLe8x8
... or Google "The first rule of large group awareness trainings".
@@alexorlandocross How would you (or Landmark) identify "vulnerable people"? Nice idea but practically impossible to implement.
@@paulcolbourne9112 Good share Paul and great breakthroughs. In my experience Zen is a meditative enlightenment. Est is a linguistic enlightenment. Enlightenment is speaking it into existence from nothing. As Werner said. Only 2 things happening. Nothing and semantics.
Good synopsis of the Forum curriculum and the distinctions. The video is good. As far as your presentation style in a video, your head constantly and noticeably goes right and left. Watch your video at 1.5x speed. It's pretty funny actually.
Paul Courtney it’s going everywhere isn’t it. It’s a completely unscripted video so was probably trying to think of what to say whilst going through ha ha
@@alexorlandocross Yeah, Ive made videos and do similar things. I tend to fidget with my hands a lot. I have my wife who's a professional youtuber as my critic pointing this out to me. You'll get more relaxed and more stationary over time. Ha ha. You've got a good humour like I have. Keeps me grounded and relating. Thanks for sharing your experience. I always like to hear someone's take on it. I got a lot from it myself. I also enjoyed you sharing your personal breakthroughs. What you criticize is spot on as well. Cheers.
I thought he came across as authentic and natural and energetic. The body movement wasn't annoying. 🙂💪
@@johnm7605 I didn't say he was annoying
It's definitely not a cult, but it was a waste of my time and money. It could be because I'm a behavioral scientist and have been working on myself watching Jim Rohn, Bob Proctor, Joseph Murphy, Walter Wattles, Napoleon Hill and Tony Robbins book Reawakening the giant. I wasn't for me.
Thanks
Please read
Isaiah 52:13- Isaiah 53 all and you will find that Yeshua Jesus is salvation. Yeshua is salvation. He is the Way, Truth, Life.
Who is the liar but the one who denies that Yeshua, Jesus is the Messiah ( Saviour )? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.
1 John 2:22-23 NASB
Romans 9,10,11
Romans 10:9,10
If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Romans 10:9-10
Yeshua, Jesus is Lord ( Adonai ) King of the Jews,and the universes
Blessings
I am a true believer in the Lord Jesus Christ.. the forum dealt with unresolved issues.. I wasn’t going to take it … but I’m glad I did ..
Lol of you don't want to do something don't do it ... If you want to do something do it it's that simple
All for only 590 moneys
How can you say it sounds like a Scam but it isn't....it exactly is a SCAM. You are pushed and pushed and pushed to bring people !!
Whoever finished the courses willingly are already being brainwashed. 😭 They don't even know they are victims.
Focus on what you got rather than your stupid stories about aspects of it. Not all of us see things this way
It cost a lot of, and it's literally for nothing, don't waist your money!!!!
It’s all about mind control
And Money!
Landmark scam