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Area 5150 Audience Reaction
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- čas přidán 6. 08. 2022
- The Big Blue Wrecking Crew is back. After 7 years from 8088 MPH, we competed at Evoke 2022 with our new production called Area 5150. This is the audience reaction during the Alternative Platforms compo. It later won first place after audience voting.
To see what this demo looks like as captured from real hardware, check out our official capture video: • Area 5150 by CRTC & Ho...
To see the demo as it looks on Viler's actual system (real IBM PC with IBM 5153 CGA monitor): • Area 5150 demo on IBM ...
Download the party version here: www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=...
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This is my personal, informal channel. Do you like the demoscene, vintage computing, video archival, or other stuff I'm known for? Check out my professional channel: The Oldskool PC: / theoldskoolpc
We never needed faster computers, we just needed better programmers.
Sometimes I think I'm an okay programmer. Then I see a demo like this and realize I am a clown. THESE are programmers.
Yeah, I get a MacBook Pro just to make simple websites 😅
@@KarlOlofsson Everyone’s got to start somewhere.
Self aware
@@markm0000 yeah but it's not like spending time on a MBP making websites is going to magically transform you into a real programmer. Trust me, I've tried...
I´m not a programmer at all, rather a hardware engineer. I would say, this is probobly more about knowing tricks of the hardware then being very skilled with algorithm.. well.. .. yea, there are parts that looks like really good programming as well (like the landscape).
A little hint. At 1:08 the border line change color ever so slightly, and the picture kind of shudders a bit.
This was done to save memory in the previews segment. The blue border wall is a out of boundaries border wall, until that shudder, than its a text block color border-wall.
I don´t know exactly how they address all 16 colors in the graphics mode (might be some mode mixing i´m unaware of) but the image in the middle of the screen is just as large as it looks like it is. So there is no problem having text on the side.
I kind of think this is cooler out of a hardware than software perspective. but of cause, there is parts that looks fairly software intensive. Of cause, it might be as simple as they use hardware feature or bugs i´m unaware of.
2:45 they reintroduce the border, the flash is visible here. But they are sort of doing a classic misdirection magic trick
4:27 use a color invert function in 4 layers that where the pointer is moved. I didn´t know color inversion was possible in CGA, but its often used in EGA and VGA.
5:26 is kind of cool because there they are showing the trick
Pushing a 5150 to do this is a supreme achievement of creative misuse of technology. Nobody in IBM at the time would have had any clue that the computer they built could eventually do this. They'd just say it'd be impossible.
That's because it _is_ impossible. These guys aren't mere programmers; they're wizards. So much so, Deep Magic™ is a walk in the park for them.
I know people are dying to send this demo back to the 80's and watch people's reactions.
But even for 2022 it feels like someone time traveled this back to us.
yeah, thinking the same... but it seems more likely someone will send back a cyberdyne T800 back in time
This is likely the biggest technical achievement ever seen on a PC without a 3d acceleration card, even crazier this is a machine from the very early 80s. If only 30% of this had been done in the late 80s, no one would be screaming Amiga today. To those knowing my name, I have seen a lot, but this is absolutely monumental. And to those watching who are not demosceners, you can not even imagine what an effort went into this to make this happen. Congratulations to everyone involved, you've become legends.
amiga? buhahhahahhaaa
I seriously love my Amiga and has until *this moment* believed it was unbeatable.... W O W !!! ... 4Mhz and less than 500kb of data. W O W again!. I actually have a hard time believing what I just have seen .... This is the *by far* the most impressive demo I have ever seen! And if someone can explain how the **** they made the music beginning at 8:38...please do. The little "funk" bit at 9:11 and onwards really was the icing on the cake for me! .... W O W ! ! !
@@SEngelsg It's possible to play digitised sound through the PC speaker, you use timed interrupts and register tricks, similar to how you'd do it on a C64.
@@rakido7388 yeah I know.. I was amazed when I first heard the sampled sound on a PC speaker with the game badcat in my youthful years. This demo is on another level though....
how many clocks are being used up and what's the strain on the system
I have been programming for about 25 years and Area 5150 has me questioning everything I know about computers.
The parallax scrolling at what seemed to be 60fps would have knocked people's socks off on a 5150 in the early 80s, and then the water reflections? Wow thats not just talent, thats organized, integrated talent + effort.
We’re forty years into the future and I can say for certain that I’m impressed with how much they’ve gotten out of the hardware
Completely insane! I spent my entire childhood on a 10mhz CGA computer. Never seen more than 4 colors before 😂 and these smooth parallax scrolls... it is just insane
This is what the demoscene is all about. What an amazing achievement. Congratulations on the very well deserved first place!
I really hope they do a breakdown of how they pulled this off. My brain is WRECKED.
Please let me know if they do! I'd kill to see the tricks they're using here!
You can find a very extensive explanation of their previous demo - 8088mph. Very short answer: they manipulated the separate RGB lines on the CGA monitor output individually.
@@MarcKloos err, i don't think that's right. Mostly it's a hack where 16-color text mode characters are compressed to approximate a bitmap mode. It does rely on low level manipulation of the CGA hardware and careful scanline timing
@@penguinx42 still mind-blowing
They used clever tricks, it's not conceptionally possible using conventional methods, it's an illusion created with exceptional machine code and memory management to a high degree
This is absolutely amazing! Considering the limitations of the CGA hardware, this is nothing short of MAGIC.
This is almost impossible to believe, I thought it couldnt get any better than 8088mph. WOW. Coding talent galore!
Not only am I completely blown away by the tech of this (my first ever demos were actually made on CGA, but are lost to time.... boo), but I deeply love how loud this PC speaker is
Frankly, all I can say is congrats. You guys deserved that first place. This is truly an achievement, especially for hardware like this.
The "music" starting at 7:24 was legendary for PIC controller-based sound...
If you don't know what CGA is, and what the fuss is about, imagine someone hacking a Super Nintendo to play Half Life Alyx.
This is about 10 times more impressive than that.
This is monumental. My 5150 would melt, it does beeps, using Q-basic and can draw to CGA, which takes about half an hour... but this is some serious human ingenuity. Thank you. tears
I can't believe a CGA card would achieve that result! Back in the '80s I watched a VGA demo, not so awesome like this one, that made me spend a lot of money for a VGA card and a VGA monitor (I had a CGA setup)....
I'm wondering if the techniques used for this demo can be used to develop a CGA game too...
Me too, but CGA clone cards and all others EGA VGA can not play this demo at all or it is glitchy.
imagine what someone will be able to create with a 2020s computer in 2062 that would have blown us away had it been done today
That would be great but it won't happen. Almost nobody will be learning to optimize their stuff like yesterday's programmers did. Also, a random computer from 2020 is nothing like one of the very few early home computers that existed back then. Nobody will care. In the past, millions have used the same computer. Today, everyone has a different setup.
Because someone can utilize a 80s computer to blow our mind so there must be someone who can push 2020s computer to the same height of difference ? No. Things don't work that way.
@@mytube9182 maybe they do work that way
Not just that, think about the demos that 2062 people will be able to make with 80s computers.
@@mytube9182 It absolutely does work that way. Most programs today are horribly optimized, there's still so much that can be pushed out of a 2024 PC that we just don't know about. Think about it. A modern x86 CPU runs at several gigahertz and has multiple cores, as well as multiple gigabytes of RAM. If you were to use a very minimal OS (or none at all?) you could utilize pretty much all of that plus typically an actual graphics card. We'll definitely see something like Area 5150 but for 2020s PCs sometime in the next 30 or 40 years for sure.
4 decades later, with hindsight, better tools and enough time, whiz kids reimagine the dawn of home PCs. Feels like steampunk reimagining the victorian age...
Modern PC Today: "Eh? An IBM 8088? What can that old thing do?"
IBM 8088: ***FLEX***
That 4 MHz processor was probably stacked. Probably had a stack of them soldered together haha.
Damn that was impressive!
I never used that hardware myself (not knowingly), but considering the time I owned a C64 and an Amiga, CGA pc's graphics were looked down upon...this looks like an awesome achievement...
Same here, I started with C64, then AMIGA, but knowing the Hardware limitations, I sure can appreciate this achievement. 😊👍
To be honest, the C64 aside, I do not think the AMIGA has been pushed this hard yet, as this poor IBM 😅
This 1 channel track turns me on! Subwoofer output colorizing the sound unbelievably.
> It later won first place after audience voting.
of course it did holy shit man
I have no words.
I cry.
What a time to be alive.
i thought 8088mph was the absolout limit of that hardware.
i thought anything more than that was phyiscaly impossible.
but then here you go again, with 7 times the visuals and 4times the music
i never even saw these kinds of effects in AGA demos
Outstanding! I read how 8088mph was made and still impressed.
Absolutely freaking sick. Best 8-bit platform demo for sure. Even disregarding the platform, the effects and the flow and everything was really great.
Just to imagine had people in the 80s developed programs like this with these type of graphics and where we would be right now.
Absolutely phenomenal! I know next to nothing when it comes to programming, as i follow the demoscene because of the amazing chiptune music. But even i got chills while watching this!
This is 6845 mastery. I love the effects at 8:13 and the water reflection in the credits.
I'm blown away. The soundtrack is amazing. WHAT
This is the computer I grew up with, and in my memory, nothing I ever saw back then compares to this. One of the most impressive things I can remember was the game STYX, with its rotating 3d patterns, and if you look at that game compared to this you cannot believe its the same machine.
At its best it could portray crude and flickering still images, like Bouncing Babies. Not even the stronger EGA machines had games with this fluidness, with the Sierra titles being the most impressive in the era.
The idea in the day was that PCs simply couldnt do sprites, and because of that it was for business only.
I keep coming back to this! Can't wait to see a 60fps direct feed soon (do love the audience feedback though!)
I'm blown away! This is the best DOS demo I have ever seen, right next to 8088 Corruption and 8088MPH :D
What is this sorcery? Amazing effects, great speed, music is so much better than 8088 mph. Even the outro, like how the hell did you manage these fancy reflections while still having enough spare clock cycles to bang the PC speaker with PWM, totally beyond me. Seems like you really squeezed out everything the machine has to give, that's off course until you manage to squeeze out more. My mind is blown, time to take the VGA card out of my XT clone, borrow a CGA clone from a friend and see if my machine can run it. Absolutely amazing work.
IKR I saw worst ST demos
Whoa, that's beyond anything I've ever seen. Jim, you've made a stunning demo once more!
95% of the amazing work in this demo is the result of Viler and reengine, so I'll throw some love their way.
The most impressive demo I've ever seen! Magic!
The alley cat moment made me feel nostalgia I haven't felt in quite some time. Nothing wrong with Keen either ;)
I NEED an export of that cTrix credits track, what a banger! ... and yes it goes without saying this is an incredible feat! :O
i got it ;)
I could see you running this demo and then feeling the chips. I bet they're no hotter than normal.
The cameo by Digger really surprised me, because I was just thinking of that game during the first part of the demo!
After seeing this, I believe in magic again.
So well optimizes for performance. When there were pauses it jarred me back to the early 1980's when working on machines that slow. Very few times, incredible.
playing this at max volume and I don't regret it, this demo was insane
Awesome show, so much effort, you guys rock!
Absolutely impressive! Great work :)
Magical. I'm in awe! Congrats to you and the team :)
very nice work all around! i see some clever CRTC tricks 😀
This was magical. You are true wizards!
I'm amazed. You did it again, team. I hope I get to meet one of you someday to congratulate you in person.
Amazing work! I can't imagine the amount of time and effort that was put into this.
Okay....wow, what is on display here is just mindblowing! Excellent work!
Jim, this is legendary. Thanks so much! My kid and I thoroughly enjoyed it!
When the oriental scene came I was expecting some IK+ action. Unbelievably good this production.
This is beautiful!
My jaw is once again on the floor, just incredible work... You and your colleagues never cease to amaze me, ever since I first saw 8088 Corruption way back in 2006.
amazing prod, congrats!
Whew, I clapped a few times sitting here at my desk. Mind blown, great work!
Whichever way these effects were done, clearly you did the impossible - which made me think you might have done things I knew the CGA couldn't do. I'll have to wait for the write-up to discover exactly what kind of impossible methods you somehow still used to do the impossible. :)
Great stuff!
Incredible. Have to watch it again right away
Wonderful, enormous ... etc.
I was never hopping to see a such great demo on the 5150 with his poor 4.77Mhz processor and CGA graphic.
Congrats
Absolutely fantastic work. Also, HOW ON EARTH?
Thinking about the program this quote comes to mind: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. ~Arthur C. Clarke
So this is the demo you said you were working on! Good use of 6845 CRTC hackery. It's amazing what you can do to old hardware that doesn't double buffer it's hardware registers.
It does though. The real trick is to 'stack' frames on top of eachother with no vblank in between, so you can trick the hardware to refresh the hardware registers.
It's almost magic how you've managed to squeeze out as much of potentials out of a 5150 ! That's incredible !
(but my heart stay with the XDC Compiler/Player)
Outstandingly brilliant!
Insane followup after 8088mph. Amazing work, everyone!
I wanted a PC IBM has a first computer, because at school I tried 'logo' programming (unlike with MacClassic I felt it might be easy but writting instruction is the way to go)... we got a Commodore 128 and no logo programming but Basic V7 and then assembly... Seeing these demos on the machine that I first wanted make me feel that although the demo scene was more active on C64... I am impress to see that actually the IBM PC with CGA graphic card could do better graphics than the C64!
Damn, you guys are really pumping the 8088 CPU, Im really amazed.
Absolute insanity. Well done!
Just saw this today. Incredible, fantastic all from IBM 5150. It must have taken months to make. Thanks for sharing.
It did, in fact, take months. Years, if you add up all the man-months.
Mind blowingly fantastically AWESOME!!! :D
Absolutely supreme! What a feat! Lost for words!
Very cool!
Wait. That's illegal.
Outstanding work. I'd love to see a technical deep dive on how this works. The intro suggests that this is all in text mode. Is that correct? As far as I got with text animation was swapping character sets to get different "brushes" and changing the background color on the horizontal retrace. (But, that was around '92.)
It's abuse of text mode in some places, yes. The CGA font cannot be changed, so no different character sets.
@@JimLeonard Very cool. I did a little reading on the 6845. I'm starting to get a vague idea of how that could be manipulated for good or evil. :)
Wow, some great scenes. I love the checkboard pattern at 02:00 and the twisting afterwards.
Wow, 8088 MPH sequel, amazing as hell!
Incredible demo and a true follow up to 8088MPH!!! Killer team of coders/artists/musicians too, truly cream of the crop. **proceeds to throw RTX 3080 into the garbage**
Right!? Insane seeing the progress! Keep up the incredible work! This makes me so happy to see!
Absolutely amazing
Utterly bonkers! 😎 Crazy cool!
REALLY AWESOME! Can't image what will be released in the future. Water effect looks so cool!
Future?
@@JimLeonard next target ?
Absolutely jawsdropping prod!
Amazing. I got choked up watching. If you get it, you get it.
I wish it wasn't so nostalgia-oriented but... MIND BLOWN! It's not supposed to be able to do all that, yet, you achieved it. And with style, while at it!
Outrageously good !
Amazing, just amazing!
Insane. Love it.
That was epic!
Com pequenas limitações vem excelentes idéias. Efeitos, música, toda programação atrás desse demo. Vocês são incríveis.
I was watching the stream and had to go somewhere but this came on and needless to say I ended up being late so I could finish watching it. I should have known something was up earlier when I saw you appearing in Hellmood's pictures.
Surprise!
That was worth the wait :)
We thought so :-) But it was down to the wire if we'd get it done in time for the deadline. There are rough spots, and we'll try to put out a final version sometime.
Why doesn't this have 10 million views!?
beeper with reverberation and bass, that s what i needed
That was absolutely incredible! I think you've proven what the unexpanded 5150 can do - so, maybe you're allowed to use an Adlib on the next one? :-D
Maybe a covox speech thingy
Nah, that would be cheating. ;-) But more accurately, it would slow us down. It takes way too long to update adlib registers.
Hm... maybe that can be an option for the final version... but maybe not, since that effect is cycle-counted exactly.
@@JimLeonard OPL3 then? If memory serves me right, it's registers update much faster.
@@JimLeonard there is always an option to get fancy, and support the CMS/Gameblaster next time!
Amazing Trixter!
Thanks! But 95% of what you see onscreen is the work of Viler and reenigne, please send some love their way too.
I love computers so much.