While I did enjoy Gen 5 myself (more than I did for Gen 4), the hate it got was mostly justified. Pokemon turning to shit has always been inevitable (and already happened before Gen 5, depending on who you ask), the Gen 5 backlash just happened to be the straw that broke the Numel's back. Let's not forget most of what people complained about in modern Pokemon all started in Gen 5 first (extreme linearity, long unskippable cutscenes, annoying friend characters, simplified dungeons and puzzles, not ugly/overdesigned Pokemon designs though because those complaints mostly started with Gen 4); BW was really the first "modern Pokemon game".
@@Advisor17 absolutely false. look at the amount of content and post game material, like the Shiny Haxorus or the Swords of Justice, the ghost girl and the finished interiors; hell, Team Plasma even destroys the linearity of the evil team is defeated before the seventh gym trope. Entire communities exist for replaying Gen 5 hundreds of times over - I've played through it a dozen times, and XY is unbearable to play through. SM is unbearable to play through again, and so is SV, although the last two are arguably alright in some areas. neither Hugh, Cheren, or Bianca were annoying friend characters; there was plenty of plot to pad it out. For reference, they each got thirty or so lines of dialogue and had story arcs, standard in every RPG from Zenonia to Genshin; now compare that with eight per four rivals with no story arcs or plotlines. Ffs, Cheren and Hugh aren't even the friend archetype, they're more like Silver or Blue. also I'd prefer the Gen 5 designs to a single one of these nostalgiabait Gen 1 designs for the past decade. I'd prefer the Gen 5 detailed and finished interiors and side quest material over the Potemkin villages in every other game after. There's a reason why ROMhacks which follow BW2 are so popular and go a thousand times more extreme with what BW2 (like Omicron) have a dedicated fan following, whereas the XY "fan base" is essentially a few vocal people who haven't even touched the games!
I do have to ask, since I definitely wasnt online when Gen 5 came out, how does the hate towards Gen 5 compare to the hate towards Gen 9? Granted, I am that person who absolutely loves Gen 9 despite its flaws and performance issues.
the hate for Gen 9 seems so much bigger because the internet is so ingrained in society at this point, so it's not very hard to put out your opinion and have others see it. The hate for Gen 5 was so big that it was of a similar feeling as to current day, yet in a time when the internet and social media weren't such staple factors in everyday life. In 2010 you couldn't get onto Twitter and see a tweet dunking on the newest Pokemon game with 40K likes, that just wasn't a thing back then. The closest would be youtubers screaming about the games on their channels, but that would similarly be much more niche than it is today.@@lewisspring35
how does it feel to be the only other person to remember the cause of all troubles and disasters while people fight over fake reasons they engineered to make themselves feel better
@@lewisspring35 it’s around the same Gen 5 people hated the Pokémon designs I mean I still dislike some but I don’t hate it tbh. What I do hate is what people hype it for is the story. because that seems like the only good thing I’m hearing from the game like I enjoyed the story but it isn’t like, groundbreaking Pokémon terms I would say it’s a major change tbh.
After repeated instances of "the team of bad guys will get defeated after the seventh badge and before the eighth", the fact that BW managed to have the evil team succeed all the way to the fucking champion himself was so refreshing.
It would be refreshing if there was substance In what they were hoping to accomplish like a team of humans using pokemon for world domination even though the way they did it was over the top they got neo team plasma I mean what is even the point if they have a civil war with each other while normal bystanders are just watching? Surely a force against team plasma would exist? Nope just gym leaders and a pokemon champion that retired after being beat by a 12 year old npc aside from the protagonist. Team Galactic had more ambition a team that gets large enough to have a civil war against each other?
And the Gym Leaders feeling like lived in humans who traveled around the world and actually got off their ass and assisted you in stopping the evil team when they were about to take over, instead of being purely obstacles with a human skin and having a child do all the work.
@@islandboy9381 gym leaders lived like humans? There whole purpose is to award pokemon trainers badges To think they did anything more is hilarious what happened to the pokemon pohleese? hmmm? No one gonna enforce the amount of taxes ghetsis owes? Also its not evil if it has its own civil war I mean Iris a 12 year old npc canonically became a pokemon champion so the whole child doing all the work is literally present
I really would've liked if they stuck to the 'free Pokemon' philosophy than saying it was all a sham. monumental waste of a plot and villain. if I walked away thinking the villains had a better motivation than I did that would be a legendary story. with that said I played this alongside fallout new vegas, so I may have been spoiled on story lol
Let's be real.... It was only about "HOW IS THERE NO OLD POKÉMON?!" while one of the things people hated in Gen 4 was how Diamond and Pearl had so many typical older choices for Pokémon.
Yeah, I’d say the only real issue with the “keeping old Pokémon in the postgame” thing is that the games don’t really give you much to make up for that loss in the early game. (Who the hell thought it was a good idea to make it so you can’t even catch the regional bug before the first gym?), though it thankfully picks up the slack later on. B2W2 also thankfully fixed that issue.
At first I though the B/W hate was an overblown thing because me and everyone I knew had a blast with those games. But then when I played X/Y and saw how few new pokemons there were, they let you choose a starter from gen 1, gave charizard and mewtwo 2 mega evolutions and brough back legendary pokemons from gen 1, everything suddenly clicked.
@@gaminggranny1541 Pretty sure it was because they were rushed to release the game, so they had to fill the gaps with older pokemon. After all, they already had solved the "nostalgia" problem with BW2 striking a good balance of old and new. No one complained about the sequels regarding that.
Honestly BW did actually suffer in terms of early mons, railroading people onto the monkies was just such an awful choice, and certain bosses, esp. Elesa in bw1, felt like they needed very specific answers Great game in other ways though
@@amiablereaper B2W2 fixed those issues or softened them then added more content to compensate (content that will never ever be seen again due to 2023 gaming industry standards)
@@shinybreloom4027 oh yeah b2w2 is probably one of the best extra games in franchise history Oh, and don't worry about Nintendo's re release policy; people are still playing the gen V games, Nintendo just isn't getting any money out of it :P
Gen 5 had so much passion put into it. The world of unova has so many things to discover. It felt like such an adventure looking for things I missed. There are so many pokemon too
@@ClearestofGluesyeah but your right the other generations before definitely did not have any Pokémon that were based on inanimate objects. Pokémon like Grimer and Muk clearly were introduced in gen 5 🤦♂️
@@crowmaster9652 never said anything about Hugh, but alright. I like Nemona though, first rival in a while that didn’t annoy me. Scarlet and violet had a good cast of characters and a surprisingly good story, massive improvement compared to sword and shield.
I feel like gen 5 is the reason pokemon/game freak is so hesitant in trying something new or going out of the norms. Also why we have so much gen 1 fan service.
They tried something new with Sun/Moon. They turned the franchise into more story driven games, replaced the gyms for a new type of challenge, and look at what we ended up with. Once again, they found out that what people want is something that follows the formula. SwSh only deviates a little because, once again, they looked at what people liked (pokémon Go), and tried to copy some mechanics like coop raids and the open zone with strong pokémon.
@@rodryguezzz ". They turned the franchise into more story driven games, " NO they turned the franchised into a fucking cutscene simulator where u cant walk 5 sec without getting interrupted. of course "what people want" is gonna be the "formula" WHEN EVERYTIME you do something different, you make it in the worst way fucking possible. "SwSh only deviates a little " YEAH LMAO having a giant open world and changing basically all the open world mechanics is a "little" ok dude
@@rodryguezzz Nah, Gen 5 was story driven. Gen 7 was a story, and that was it. The gameplay was atrocious in Gen 7, because there was NO exploring or sense of adventure. Just handhold "go here, go there" that was absolutely awful. Haven't played a pokemon game since that travesty. Gen 5 was truly the peak of the franchise.
@@C3l3bi1 "WHEN EVERYTIME you do something different, you make it in the worst way fucking possible". Bold, and false statement. "YEAH LMAO having a giant open world and changing basically all the open world mechanics is a "little" ok dude" Ok, now you're just taking the piss on me. Fake whinning on FF13 "inventing linearity" (I can mention at least 10 previous JRPGs, also linear, not 11 because MMO and 12 (_actually_) tried to be open), just to cover the toriyama nepotism (why else wittlew motomu get a director´s seat, if not by interferance of the creator of Gary Stu Supreme kakarot). All the while acting like today's barren wastelands (filled "at best" with mtx) are somehow *not* YOUR fault. SwSh were also linear moron, the Wild Area or whatever is called was just a pointless gimmick. I know because I spent a lot of time and effort trying to get people to see the _real_ problems with SwSh, like Dexit being nintendo twisting your arms to pay up for Pokemon home. The only "open world" pokemon games are Legends Arceus (a glorified tech demo) and SV (Poke-CyberPunk). "Cutscene simulator", as if speedrunning didn't involve mashing A like carzy when a character open their mouth...
Gen 5 was definitely the most hated generation on release. There has never been a more controversial roster of Pokémon. Also, there’s a reason why Black/White are the worst selling new gen games. Because they were so hated.
@@haroldnecmann7040 because gen 5 was supposed to be the “reboot” of the series ofc they gatekeep all the old mons behind the postgame they wanted you to use the new Pokémon instead of the old like how you could only use only Gen 1 Pokémon (even though other generations didn’t exist yet but you get what I mean)
@@haroldnecmann7040 because during gen 4 people were bitching and moaning that most of the roster in the regional dex was recycled old mons, there is no winning with fans ong
Even nowadays it's not hard to find someone who is not very close to the franchise and still says "oh I liked pokemon a lot up until they were still based on animals, not trash or ice cream like today". This for me is a clear sign the Gen 5 hate was bigger than any other. You don't see nearly as often people outside of the community complaining about dex cut as much as they complained about the designs from back then.
yeah and it also permanently ruined the games to be borderline unplayable and filled with handholding while costing $90 for a "full game" with less content
And yet we will praise Voltorb, Geodude, and fucking Gastly. Idc what anyone says Gen 5 will always be my favorite Gen. I'm not blinded by nostalgia, I just genuinely love it. The countless hours I put in that game, the countless times I started a new save file just to complete the entire game over again with different teams each time. Samurott will always be top 10 favorite pokemon in my list. I feel like Gen 5 received too much hate and after we got our recent gens, excluding Sun and Moon, everyone wants to backtrack and say BW2 was the pinnacle as if they never hated it to begin with. Let the OGs have it, y'all can go on and enjoy the mid tier games
I remember passing on gen V when it initially released for other reasons and I’m kinda glad I did cause getting to experience it for the first time in my mid 20s as an adult? You realized how much love went into not only soft resetting the franchise but genuinely making it different from what we grew accustomed too. I actually LOVED having to make a new team of unova only mons and that postgame difficulty spike? Hell yes. It’s a crying shame people have only learned to respect GEN V after seeing how low effort game freaks releases had become since. There’s a reason bw2 are considered the pinnacle of the series and it’s been a steady decline since.
There's a lot to it. Game development is in no way as easy as people think it is. Game Freak's specialty for the longest time was sprite-based games, and they were damn good at it. They still tried really hard on XY and the following games, but 3D games take a lot and I mean a LOT more effort to produce efficiently, especially since they're at a much larger scope. Not only that, but the simultaneous worldwide release of XY caused them to have to cut a lot of stuff. I still like XY because of personal reasons, but there's a reason that the games have had a dip in quality and it's more-so TPCI's fault for constantly pushing the devs to have a mainline game every year. Hardware becomes more demanding to produce for and less simple. It's also not as simple as delaying the games because TPCI makes a lot of money from everything else like merchandise and the card game that the game's release HAS to line up with their plans perfectly or they risk losing billions of dollars, but TPCI unfortunately only cares about the money and Game Freak devs will continue to get screwed over.
@@audreysp602 3D doesn't exactly take more effort, arguably it takes more effort to make 2 different sprites of the same pokemon (front and back facing) for every generation; and even more nightmarishly to make them feel a tad more alive by animating each sprite for those 2 front and back facing state (Gen 5 ones must've been some next level resource sink). 3D only takes more effort once but are more future proof and reusable, clearly it's cheaper and takes less effort later on since even SV reuses XY's models and animations and the only new ones they had to make are the new pokemons (duh); unlike previous games where they remade all the the existing pokemon sprites every generation. I can understand Gen 6 having a dip in quality, but the games after are just puzzling. Hardware doesn't become more demanding, games does. The hardware is the limiting factor, Gamefreak clearly don't have the resources to optimize the games on a platform like the Switch (a relatively not as powerful console) in time for yearly releases; thanks TPCI for that indeed.
@@shira_yone Really? Last time I checked, SV is using the new models that they started using in PLA. Also they do make new animations every gen still, take a look at the animations for moves like Protect and Gunk shot from Gen 6 compared to now in SV (those are the two biggest ones I can remember off the top of my head). Some animations are reused but they're at least updated slightly to make them higher quality with each new gen
@@audreysp602 I'm sure you still get the point, they are more reusable still and most of the update are just slight visual effect change. The fact that they use models from PLA still means it's a reused asset. Nothing wrong with reusing assets, the point was it's not going to be as resource intensive as remaking every sprites like in the older gens.
I still think Sword and Shield got a lot more hate than Black and White did. The difference is that Sword and Shield were hated because of actual problems, whereas Black and White were hated because "oh noooooooo there's an ice cream Pokémon!"
nostalgia blindness, in 10 years people will be saying the same thing about swsh compared to whatever gen 12 games around. BW felt like a huge step down for the series after HGSS at the time and people were right to complain.
@@Mijzelffan oh trust me they’re already started appreciating SWSH before SV came out since the graphics didn’t look the same lol now everyone is appreciating like they everyone weren’t shitting on them since release 🤣 the switch up is crazy
@@Mijzelffan That just implies Pokemon will continue to go downhill and we'll just find the shittiest game at the current time to be better than the future shittier game solely because it'd be less shit. 🤣
Super sad how much people hated gen 5. Best sprite work, completely new pokedex and some are absolute beats to use. Haxorus, darmanitan, scolopede and of course hydreigon... Terrifying. And certainly tried to tell a better story.
The story was good. Those examples you gave are powerhouses, but every generation have them, and those in particular look... ugh. Excadrill at least looked fine I guess.
@@VixYW I would actually say I find it impressive that I don't hate a single design I gen 5 yet I dislike and even loathe so many in gens 8 and 9, if a pokemon wasn't great it was just average but gen 8 and 9 had some legitimatly bad designs, still boils down to personal preference but man it's crazy how the design philosophy just started to change in the last two gens
I generally love Gen 5, but outside of the weak as hell grass types, Emolga, and The Oshawott line... I don't know that I'd ever choose to use any Pokemon from that era again
Best spritework? Hell no, gen 4 absolutely has the best spritework. I like gen 5 but why do people pretend those janky animations are better than the vibrancy and character of gen 4 sprites
@@SERMareep2007 they were practically the exact same games as the OG Sun and Moon until around the time you battle the Elite 4. 90% of the stuff they gave us in the Ultra games could’ve easily been given to us in a free patch and that would’ve happened if Nintendo was actually with the times like other gaming companies like Sony and Microsoft.
I remember getting White 2 and the meme website I used to go to either never talked about it or made fun of Nate’s design. Believe it or not, 2011 and 2012 you were a social outcast for playing Pokémon.
Ikr. Even when I was an avid fan and counted the days till B2W2 came global I was still weirded out by Nate's hair design. But the hair just got bundled up thanks to the semi-cap (?)
Gen 3 for me is the most nostalgic gen because that's the gen where I first played pokemon, but by far gen 5 is my favorite all-time because of its well-written story and the incredible music it offers. I pity those who can't at least appreciate what this gen had to offer because they are really missing out on a well-crafted and designed game.
Gen V had the issue of its audience aging out. If you were aged 5-10 for RBY (released 1998-2000) then when BW came out in 2011 you were 16-21. XY (2013 release) only managed to claw back the audience (now 18-23) with full 3D and heavy nostalgia baiting.
Very true and I think an underrated point to consider. That and combined with what I think what a kind of "Pokemon fatigue" at the time, especially behind Black and White were STILL on the DS, instead of being a whole new set of games on a new system, which I think contributed to burnout.
Don't disservice gen 6 with just that. There was so much more than it. It had the best Exp share mechanic of the series, Fairy type was a great adition, the new pokemon designs were amazing, it was a hit as a leap to 3D, the world design was great, the whole region map looping back was way superior than donut Unova, the legendaries were freaking awesome and way better than turbo butt dragons, the music was sick across the board in comparison to the cacophony that was BW1 soundtrack, etc...
@@VixYW the box legendaries were sweet (just ignore the hideous mythicals) and it being a leap to 3d at the time was pretty huge despite everyone realising the sprites were more expressive afterwards. Definitely disagree on the other points though if this isn't bait. "Turbo Butt Dragons" that's gold haha
Gen 5 was my favorite gen when it came out (and still is) and so I felt very alienated by how much hate it received for the dumbests reasons. Glad nowadays it receives the recognition it deserves, but it might have come a little too late cuz as Werster put it, that feedback might have caused GF to not want to try anymore, F.
Yes. BW were Masuda's Magnum Opus, but few understood his vision (and translated interviews wouldn't hit the internet until years afterwards) and even fewer appreciated it. Between his precious child floundering and getting spit upon and XY doing so well despite how atrocious it was just because "3D Pokémon", Masuda and Ohmori lost all faith in the fanbase and just stopped trying. They're both bitter fucks online (moreso Masuda) and in videos after BW they're literally never happy. I was on the #FireMasuda train after what he said about the Battle Frontier and why it wasn't in ORAS. Now we need to get Ohmori the fuck out of Game Freak if we want any chance at all of Pokémon being lead by passionate, caring fans of the franchise again.
I think Sun and Moon are my favorite Pokemon games what black and white definitely are number two Sun and Moon was the first full experience I had with a Pokemon game cuz I actually played diamond like seven years ago got all the way up to the second gym and that's about it I actually really want to play sword and shield the game seemed pretty good because it has black and white Pokemon in it also Ruby and Sapphire cut the Pokedex first but they're held as god tier games but when sword and shield does it it's universally hated what about the fact that meteor has not been in a Pokemon game since ultra Sun and Moon I thought it would be funny to talk about these things because I'm bored and I'm about to go to sleep
Oh same here. I’m so glad that BW is looked on fondly now and that I can talk about how much ive always loved it freely. It’s always been one of my faves and I never understood the complaints. In fact, 90% of the designs in BW were absolutely fire and still are to this day.
@FatherofGray To be fair, it is definitely a business strategy than anything hence why GF doesnt try to make a quality and wholesome game. Black and White in the west came out at the time when the 3DS was realeased and those games being released on the DS caused those games to underperform GF standards. Contrast to X and Y, those games which were 3DS releases did better. And because of what those games had implemented i.e. easier difficulty, WW releases, nostalgia fan service, lack of post game, etc is what probably convinced GF that thesr were the elements that madr Pokemon successful. And we know how the rest of the games especially Sword and Shield/Scarlet and Violet turned out
Pokemon Black was my first pokemon game. I was 8 years old and didn't even speak english when I played through it for the first time. I was genuinely surprised to find out that gen 5 used to be so unpopular. Especially since it's basically considered the peak of the franchise nowadays.
@@nicolasg8091 Yeah, crazy that people can't see that. Gen 3 wasn't that popular for being a soft reset of the series, gen 4 wasn't all that popular because it was super fucking slow and had no fire types, etc etc. Eventually gen 6, 7, 8 and 9 will be considered peak fiction one day
@@nicolasg8091 I get that there's a lot of bias involved (I think most people in these comments grew up with gen 5) but gen 5, especially the sequels, are some of the most polished games to date. Everything since gen 6 has felt pretty rushed. Gen 1 and 2 weren't great due to hardware limitations. Gen 4 (DPP) was held back by its engine. I think gen 3 and HGSS are on a similar level with gen 5. Although gen 5 will always be more special to me since it was my first generation.
@@paoloh885 Gen 5 was very well polished, but not very well designed imho. True that the sequels made it better, but the way I see it, it only got as good as DP. Platinum and HGSS were way better.
@@VixYW I have to agree that especially in terms of map design gen 5 isn't that good compared to gen 4 mostly because of the linearity. But as a side effect the balance of gen 5 definitely felt better than the earlier gen's (for example if you play the game normally you shouldn't have to grind, but the game is still relatively challenging). The linearity also allowed for more complex plot/story.
The hate that gen 5 got did irreparable to the franchise. After that, from gen 6 onwards and still to this day, TPC panders to Kanto constantly and it’s awful. The blatant favoritism to Kanto is seen in the games, cards, anime, etc and I get so tired of it.
Pokemon B/W had a no EXP thing? A little dive into why that exists is apparently a form of ANTI-PIRACY. That means those """super-nerds""" on 4chan were using pirated copies. Holy shit looool, but that's a really ingenious form of anti-piracy honestly.
Funnily enough the biggest of those "super nerds" was Joe Merrick from serebii who, after saying that his "imported" BW cartridge arrived, reported that the games have some kind of tutorial mode in the beginning which doesn't let his mons get any exp, and got clowned on for playing on a pirated ROM.
In summary, "Wheres my Pikachu, wheres my Charizard. Fucking trashbag. Fucking Icecream. Fuck this game." ROFL I wasn't apart of that group of people as I was not even 10 years old and didn't even have access to internet at the time so I was not even aware of the hate. I love gen 5, as Werster said to those individuals, "thanks guys... Pricks."
lazy designs no real world enforcement, just rely on gym leaders and champion that had zero staple you guys love gen 5 because you relate to the N character its the fact you guys focus on that more than the literal pokemon designs
@@crowmaster9652 lazy designs are the ones in gen 9, gen 5 had a bunch of bangers and funny enough i think 8 which is one of the worst srill had hood pokemon designs
I'd like to suggest another reason that I remember. When BW first came out, the 3DS was right around the corner, and a lot of people had the opinion that sprite based Pokemon was getting old and dated, and wanted new 3D games for the new system. So when B2W2 came out and the 3DS was already a year and a half old, it felt even MORE dated and a lot of people weren't taking it lightly.
i will never forget how everyone clowned on oshawott when gen v came out. and now its a beloved mon. its so insane to me because oshawott was my fave since day one
@@GothAngel98 omg i remember the poplio hate so vividly. and when people dissed on it for having a feminine evolution too :') also i agree, the starters get so much attention while other cute/cool mons get overlooked. mismagius is probs my top pokemon and she gets barely any love
people bitch about how "eehhn myeh gen 5 has trash bag pokemon and ice cream pokemon" but those same people forget that gen 1 literally had two snake pokemon who's names were literally snake and kobra backwards
It took a while for people to start seeing the light of gen 5. I thought the trash bag and ice cream were funny memes but I always loved BW. Once we started getting truly mediocre and broken games it started putting things in perspective
Gen 5 is my favorite because it felt like gen 1 all over again. Seeing every pokemon you encounter is new, not to mention making new teams was amazing i got so many replays from it.
I felt the irrational hatred of Gen 5 even IRL - there was a person I talked to in high school that just... didnt like it, but never gave a real explanation why. It was probably the Pokemon in hindsight, but it just bugged me. Was it the idea that the games tried to do something different? Because if there's anything Pokemon fans are deathly allergic to, it's change.
"if there's anything Pokemon fans are deathly allergic to, it's change." Ironic, since the change/evolution is such a big theme in the franchise. Well, maybe that's why Ash refused to evolve so many of his pokémon.
its because gen 5 didnt feel like pokemon it told a basic story that was more human than pokemon because there was more focus on the human aspect it drew attention away from the poorly designed pokemon and the awful sprite animation in battle its not hard to dislike gen 5
@@islandboy9381 The difference is they incorporate pokemon with the human story element now its no longer oh we're gonna just forget pokemon gen 6 did a good job establishing the importance of pokemon with humans gen 5 never solved the problem that they established at the start of the adventure with team plasma they wanted to liberate pokemon only to capture them to rule the world. Its just a lie backed up by Ghetsis massive bank account
@@crowmaster9652 Bro just say that you don’t like the game, everything you said can be dismantled whit facts just by checking on a fucking wiki without even play the game, the fact that Getchis made up to conquer the world by lying on everything was revealed to be a perfect plan and that’s what was happening until our protagonist kicked in, that’s straight up better than every other plot Pokémon’s game have got, gym leaders beign useful is just perfect, why should they only do their job? Even if there is someone that is nearly conquering the world under their eyes? Just like let him be the king whitout even trying to do something?! That’s why all other gym leader from other games literally sucks, the world is dying/beign conquered and all you do is letting a fool do whatever he wants whit everyone’s life? Like in dppt everyone is watching Camilla and a 12 years old trying to stop Cyrus whitout even trying to help them
"fucking trash bag, fucking ice cream". This was me wholeheartedly lol. I actually never bought another pokemon game after platinum and heartgold. But damn i was so angry for seemingly nothing.
I def skipped BW2 after selling my copy of White shortly after buying it (It was such a trash experience) but I tried with Gen 6 again. Then moved on to better series overall.
And now the Internet Gen Wars Discourse increasingly pins Gen II as the worst of the four classic gens, while Gen III increasingly gets touted as the best. That's even happening with Smogon's competitive metagames as we speak, not just the actual gameboy games.
@@yourdaganTbf that's true on a competitive level. NO ONE likes gen 2 because it's needlessly grindy/boring, and gen 3 is relatively popular, although people seem to prefer the Ultra Metagame by far.
Part of me has to wonder if we were kinda conditioned to be nostalgia-blind back then. I mean think about it: I haven't heard many complaints on Gen 3, and it wasn't until the remakes where I've heard even SOME complaints about Hoenn, and even then there were more defenders anyways. (I mean everyone jokes about IGN's "too much water" comment, but no one really considered that that might be a legitimate criticism of Hoenn. (Doesn't help that it's IGN.) Maybe the entire East side of Hoenn is empty and meandering, and the fact that it's water means basically every tile is tall grass meaning possibly lots of encounters which means a lot of wasted time running from Tentacool. You might say "just buy Repels lol", and... That just proves my point. I shouldn't HAVE to buy 30 Super Repels to make it less annoying to traverse THE ENTIRE EAST SIDE OF HOENN. I want to explore these routes and find items and maybe new Pokemon to catch. I shouldn't HAVE to use Repels to make the East side of Hoenn less tedious to explore because it shouldn't be tedious to explore to begin with. (Then there's the whole ordeal of finding Sootopolis and the Magma/Aqua's underwater cave...) Tangentially I've heard some people say that Hoenn hits a lot of similar notes to Kanto, which might not be a coincidence. Likewise the Gen 2 remakes had little complaints as well (probably helped by it being celebrated as a kind of "resurrection" of those games since Gen 2 mons were kinda stuck on their original games and their "fix" before HGSS was far from clean), and one of the defining traits about the Gen 2 games was the ability to visit Kanto in postgame. Then there's Gen 4 and it's arguably another step away from being similar to Kanto, and you start to see some complaints. And yes, I know the game is sluggish, but Gen 2 also had this problem and I did NOT hear the same number of complaints about HGSS'a speed as I did with DPPt (or at all, actually). It goes to show how much people will set aside or even ignore possible shortcomings for the sake of nostalgia. ...Then you get to Gen 5. No returning Pokemon, no similar landmarks or routes, NOTHING familiar. Nothing to artificially and superficially inflate the game's greatness before it even comes out, and no buffer to cushion the complaints from idiots that'll complain about an ice-cream cone but conveniently ignore two instances of an evolution being the same Pokemon but three times. A trash bag is a horrid design? Good thing we have our living pile of sludge that evolves into the *exact same thing except bigger.* And honestly the worst part is this generation of Pokemon fans is probably going to end up the same way as before. It feels like they've doubled-down on the pandering, and any original idea has to have a massive safety net carried by Charizard and Pikachu. (In the very least Legends Arceus felt like a breath of fresh air, even if it is kinda chasing the Breath of the Wild trend of an open world adventure, and Gen 9 does seem like it's taken a bit more of a departure from the usual formula.)
I didn't buy Black/White when it came out, but for different reasons. After getting burned hard on Diamond/Pearl, and seeing just how much better Platinum was, I assumed the same thing was going to happen with gen 5: They'd rush out the unfinished two versions first, then later release a far superior third version. So I didn't buy Black/White because I figured I'd just wait for the inevitable Gray version, until GF pulled a sneaky on us. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of other people had a similar mindset.
Gen 5 is going to be the last Gen worthy of a redemption arc I feel like, the “gen 6 was actually good” narrative bothers me since it was the very first Pokémon game I ever completed at the ripe age of 9… and I still think it’s a heavily flawed game that deserved its criticisms. Gen 7 followed suit with a lot of similar issues and additional issues, and Gen 8 and 9 kind of speak for themselves for their controversies
Yeah, X/Y are so bad. Bland region, bland rivals, bland gym leaders, bland elite four, bland champion, bland evil team, no post game to speak of, pathetically easy even for a Pokémon game. The only positives are a great soundtrack (like most Pokémon games), character customisation, a great regional dex and the PSS. The worst games in the franchise after BD/SP, for me.
Well, at least gen 7 actually had an interesting story that only came close to the level of gen 5, right? But of course, I don't like how the Ultra games for Sun & Moon ruin the story completely. And the extra content wasn't even worth it either.
For all its flaws, I still think gen 7 did a lot of things right too and found it way more enjoyable than X/Y. I liked the story and care about most of the characters since they actually have a personality and aren't bland and forgettable like most of X/Y's characters. It remains my second favorite gen, right behind gen 5. Gen 9 just makes me angry. The Area Zero section was phenomenal and almost made me forgive the game for being such a broken mess. The potential is there, and the games for the most part are pretty fun, but they clearly still need at least a couple more years of development to even be considered finished games. It could have been one of the best games in the series and they just completely fucked it up. To me the games died once they transitioned to the Switch. They were pretty much all bad, with Legends Arceus being the only exception.
gen 6 was an actual refreshment pokemon champion did something team flare was much more lethal there was lore great pokemon designs fairy type integrated well gym leaders actually great and challenging better interaction with rivals 3D models that looked great staple cities to explore amazing ost team flare didnt have a civil war pokemon champion didnt canonically lose to a 12 year old npc the game felt like a pokemon game gen 5 didn't feel like a pokemon game
Its always neat to see someone of wersters position bring this up. The internet was and still is still full of attention seeking jackasses that will never formulate a rational opinion and will instead bandwagon of any strong reaction to a popular thing just to feel like they belong in a crowd and pokemon just so happens to be one of the biggest targets for that. The takes you see from that era are just so fucking irrational, like... Cant get your favorites all of a sudden? thats been a thing since gen 3 and its been done precisely to force players into not going with the same 5 mons every game. The game is too linear? The most open any game has been before this was allowing you to skip 1 or 2 gym leaders, thats it, you not being able to skip a single boss trainer to steam roll them later isnt exactly going to kill the game. They made an ice cream, gear and trashbag pokemon and creativity suddely died because they exist? My brother in Christ, theyve incorporates objects to mons SINCE GEN 1 and those are just 8 OUT OF 800+ MONS IN THE ENITRE GAME.
@@UltLuigi1 that has nothing to do with what i just said but do not diss kirby like that, by comparing it to the moon rabbit siren blob that has one joke and nothing else
Only thing I disagree with here (as someone for whom, at the age of 10, BW was Game Freak's magnum opus) is refuting that Unova is too linear - that's really a matter of taste in RPGs, and I can understand having a distaste for that particular aspect. BW was the first time a mainline Pokémon game was an entirely linear experience start-to-finish, which was probably due to the focus on an RPG-like narrative that, in BW's case, necessitated such a design. To be fair, compare Game Freak's golden boy RBY here, and you'll see that at least in terms of Gym progression, the linearity really does fade away a short while in; though there's clearly an intended structure of order, this can be toyed with just after Misty. Brock and Misty are required fights to progress past an NPC and trees respectively, but afterwards, the only Gym Leaders who have any other Leader fights in their way are Blaine (Surf is required to reach Cinnabar Island, so Koga has to be beaten first) and Giovanni (who only shows up in his Gym after all the other Leaders are defeated). That means that Lt. Surge, Erika, Sabrina (granted, after clearing Team Rocket out of Silph Co.) and Koga (followed by Blaine at some point) can be fought in any order, as Fly, while helpful, isn't required to get around Kanto. Does this make RBY a masterpiece by itself, while ruining BW? Not at all, but I appreciate the ability to get lost in RBY's Kanto if the player can figure out how - not that RBY had a very complex story to balance that freedom with, though that's a different kettle of fish. Granted, that aspect of RBY's scenario design itself didn't exactly last in Pokémon, but there wasn't an immediate transition to a more linearly-routed scenario in the games either; the next few regions all had some elements of non-linearity somewhere in story/map progression, even if they were brief. More to the point, the layouts of the region maps and their structures at least implied the region to be a living, breathing place, where trainers living in these regions could theoretically travel all around in a different way to your character - I think Hoenn's a particularly good example of this, but Johto and Sinnoh are strong here too. Unova, on the other hand, is so streamlined in its pathways that this illusion is harder to maintain, thus the linearity of the games is much more noticeable. The journey through the region, as well as the world, is still charming to me, but I can see that for some, Game Freak may have stripped back the curtain a little too far in that regard - not that any of this justifies the spite towards the game when it came out, of course. tl;dr: mostly agree, just think you're underestimating non-linearity in old-school Pokémon. Don't blame you if you didn't read all that, just didn't want to misrepresent my stance with poor, unnuanced phrasing, as is common on today's internet.
It’s crazy to think people hated those games so much, especially seeing Pokémon now, I never played a game after Gen 7, and I still haven’t finished playing my copy of pokemon Sun, that was the Gen that killed pokemon for me for a while, I can’t even touch the new gens
What I found crazy about Gen 5 is how ambitious it was with the Pokemon it gave to the player. You could argue lots of games let you have overpowered Pokemon before the League but Gen 5 was like no other. Most of the Pokemon in the Desert Resort, an area accessible before the third Gym Leader, are broken in some way, like Darumaka, Krookodile, even Sigilyph is the only fast Psychic-type in the game. Black and White 2 went CRAZY with making powerful Pokemon easily accessible, you can get a Riolu before the first Gym, a Lucario before the second and an Eevee before the third, you're given a Skill Link Minccino FOR FREE, a Volcarona halfway through the game, all three Swords of Justice just APPEAR during the main story, Aron in Mistralton Cave, the Giant Chasm is full of insane encounters like Mamoswine, Weavile and fucking Metagross. You know how rare it is to get Metagross in the main story of a Pokemon game? Those games were the first time it was possible, and I don't know about Gen 8 and 9, but to my knowledge it has only been possible once since, and that's as a Beldum in the Alola games. Black and White 2 makes Metang not hard to find in the slightest, one level away from evolving, right before the Kyurem and Ghetsis fight. Even in the post-game you can get two guaranteed Shiny pseudo-legendaries, one for completing the Black Tower/White Treehollow and one for seeing every Pokemon in the Unova Dex. Zorua was also accessible outside of an event for the first time here.
People really do lack self awareness. It seems like people forgot the reason you play games is for entertainment and enjoyment purposes rather than trying to act superior or morally better than everyone else.
Ironic then, that gen 5 has the best sprites, what with it being the only gen where Nintendon't was smart enough to recognize the superiority of black outlines for your 3d models.
i always thought it was hilarious that people would trash gen 5 on its "uncreative" pokemon... meanwhile gen 1 has some eggs with faces, pokeballs... with faces and big piles of purple shit with, you guessed it, faces
THAT LAST BIT FOR FUCKING REAL BRO. Hello, gen 5 stan since the day it was new. Game got so much shit, I was so heavy into the Pokemon community during those times, the hate was so bad, and often just so unwarranted. Dear Arceus, it was hard to escape. I made some really good friends though who were just as passionate for the franchise as me though. But, no, B2W2 didn't sell the best, and every game prior sold like hot cakes. Nowadays we get buggy messes due to rushed products. Real fantastic.
I was part of that croud. And I still stand to the position regarding some of the worse designs that stand out compared to Gen 1-4. But I judged before even giving the game a chance. And when I played through Black 2 for the first time, I deeply regretted being part of that crowd. There's so much love and care put within this game and most of the issues from Black/White were adressed and fixed. Whereas Black/White aren't perfect games, the story and characters ooze with charme. I do feel partly responsible for the lack of quality in Pokémon games nowadays
In a way this feels a lot like what happened to the Paper Mario series. I find it baffling though, that Nintendo, the company famous for doing whatever they want and not listening to feedback, decided to take feedback and make those two series some of the lowest-quality of their franchise. Pokémon and PM still have tons of effort put into them, but what that works achieves just doesn’t feel worth it to me.
A fish, a rat, a seal, and a woman doing blackface are your average gen 1 designs. Do NOT talk about the "worst designs" being mostly from gen 5. And gen 1 isn't the only gen from 1-4 to be a huge letdown. Gen 2 is such a letdown that there are only 2 starters in that game. Idk why they immediately ditched the Grass/Water/Fire trio in favor a Fire/Water duo in the sequel and then went back to it in the 3rd gen, but they did for some reason. The only other Pokemon in gen 2 that are worth getting excited over are Ampharos, the legendaries, and Tyranitar, which is just Godzilla. The rest are either animals or baby evolutions to gen 1 weirdos like Jynx and Electabuzz. The gen 2 legends are at least very lore-centric and have actual inspirations from real life eastern mythos. Meanwhile the gen 1 legends are a cat and it's anthropomorphic clone. And the byproduct of that clone is that one of the other Pokemon in the game is a blob that changes into one of the many fish and bird designs that are totally super inspired. Gen 3 continues to not break boundaries by introducing mostly animals with a few standouts that look like ugly people (Medicham), but by and large, breaks no molds. The only Pokemon worth getting excited about are the starters, Gardevoir, Manectric, Metagross, and the 2 new Dragon types, Flygon and Salamence. Gen 4 was so bland that all it had to show for itself was the fact that it took some of the WORST Pokemon from gens 1-3, and I mean the real fucking *_SHITTERS_* and gave them evolutions. Tangela? Mono-Grass in a generation FULL of Grass/Poison types. Lickitung? Seriously? Of all the Normal type Pokemon, you really wanna lie to me and say you EVER used Lickitung? When Snorlax was right there? Gligar and Sneasel? Some of the weakest Pokemon to ever not evolve until gen 4 saved them. Gen 4 was so bland that we all know everyone else's team. Starter, Luxray, Staraptor, Lucario, Floatzel/Roserade, and Garchomp. You had to go out of your way to be a contrarian if you had a different team, and even then, that was on a repeat playthrough. Gen 4 introduced *_FOUR_* new Fire types. And if you didn't pick Chimchar, you missed out on meeting *_THREE OF THEM_* and the 4th one was Magmortar, which, again, was an attempt to save the thoroughly-mediocre-because-it-was-gen-1-filler-trash, Magmar.
Krabby, seel, voltorb, rattata. Garbage design and name. What do we do with magnemites evolution? Just make three of them. What do we do with dug trios evolution? Just make three of them. What do we with doduos evolution? Just give them three heads. Also, exeggcute. Literal cracked eggs with a face. Lmao
I was subconsciously part of the hater wave as a kid. I think I got bored of Pokémon after 4 and became “too cool” to play when I was 12-13. Modern warfare had just come out, I got a 360 for Christmas after my parents officially divorced (plz be happy, here’s an Xbox, lmao love my mom.) I stopped playing Pokémon for another 15 years and here I am trying to catch up on all the handhelds before I start a switch poke title. The nostalgia has been an amazing trip, but I wish it was still all the craze like when we were kids. Trading with each other every couple months etc
That’s the sad truth. Why would gamefreak put much effort into a game when it gets shit on like it did in gen 5. no wonder they use the cheap way nowadays
The fanbase is like that toxic girlfriend and gen 5 was the boyfriend that treated her right. The fanbase left gen 5 behind for a better gen but realized too late what they had was good and tried to go back to gen 5 and apologize lol
Gen 5 basically did what gen 1 did. Only difference is that gen 1 started the franchise. Gens 3-5 were the golden age of pokemon. Had the best mainline games and spin offs.
"It is all your fault we'll never get a good pokemon game again" Thank you, thank you, always great to meet a fan, it was a pleasure. No gen will be allowed to surpass gen 3, ever. Mwahaha.
completely agree with the last part. Every new Pokémon game that comes out now is the exact opposite of what would get me back into the series, and it's ALL because of the backlash to Gen V, the first and last time they tried to change up the formula SLIGHTLY.
I loved gen 5 on release, this is what I wanted a fresh start since I didn't really like Gen 4. I remember reading back in the day that Gen 5 was the worst pokemon game since it was all new , the complaints were endless from designs , no old pokemon returning, etc. Never understood the hate if got
I mean thats the only way anybody can find any game past 6 "good", is if they never played anything else better. Gen 8 and 9 are so beyond dogshit as games thats insane, and its probably never getting better since poke fans keep buying that garbage.
Exactly. Every gen gets shat on on release. That’s just what happens when your franchise is as huge as it is. But we have to admit that Game Freak were being hella ballsy in making Gen V, making 156 completely new Pokémon and locking all the rest behind the postgame. I loved that decision, but I get why people didn’t. On the other hand, I did indeed like that players were forced to use new Pokémon. To those who didn’t like it? Awww, you can’t use a Gyarados for the 15th game in a row? Boo hoo. Grow up. Time to use something else. It’s called trying new things.
Let's be real here, Garbodor and Vanilluxe are some of the most creative designs we'll ever see from Pokemon, because who _actually_ thinks to create a garbage bag or ice cream pokemon? Not the Fandom, that's who. 95% of fakemon art ends up being "animal the artist likes, but elemental."
I’m somewhat vindicated that people like Gen 5 now, but I’m still super salty about it especially because the people praising Gen 5 so much now are also unfairly harsh to SV and LA. It’s the same story again 10 years later, people don’t realize that and I’m super fucking miffed about it
I love how all the people who didn't buy and hated 5th gen have reduced the entire franchise to a shit hole of mediocre and embarrassing games only for equally mediocre excuses like: "I DON'T LIKE THIS PoKeMOn" Oppressing the attempted Game Freak and The Pokemon Company to revolutionize the entire franchise towards a hypothetical future of increasingly better quality games.
Funnily enough, I was super happy playing gen 5. I just got done playing gen 4 and seeing this new game with all new pokemon was amazing to me with starters I loved. I really wish it wasn't hated like that...
I loved gen 5 from the moment I saw plasma in Accumula town and the N battle right after. The game seemed similar to past games I loved yet fresh in all the right ways. B2W2 have stayed in my top 3 Pokémon games.
To this day, Black & White are still the lowest selling "new gen" games. I am not justifying their laziness and over saturation of games, but it's more understandable when you realize that one of the best games in the series were recieved with such a backlash
Now that you mention it, we should be upfront about how a lot, and I mean _a lot_ of jrpgs have shoddy localizations. I don't mean the translations, but how awkward the dialogue feels. Like, not even FF is medieval anymore, why the over grandiose dialogue? As if the "interactive anime" bullshit excuse wasn't a problem...
@@JuanLeon-oe6xe HGSS/BW/B2W2's problem was that its dialogue (at least in EN) was too stiff; similar issue to your complaint, but on the other end of the scale.
@@UltimaSpark50 There might be a couple reasons, not good ones tho... The textboxes are too small, for longer scenes it´s too many A presses to chnage 2 lines at a time (as reference, RPGMaker gives 4). Also... well, "too much text" otherwise, concise yet expressive/emotional is difficult to find. That does begs the question of why it hasn't been addressed yet... I'm beginning to believe my "conspiracy" theory that Pokémon being (this badly) rushed is not by far a new development (or I´m just slow on picking this up...)
I feel like Gen 8 is a very close second if not arguably more hated than Gen 5. When Game Freak announced there was gonna be no National Dex, it was on-sight for this game. Not to mention the graphics, the animations, the overall lower difficulty compared to other gens, Dynamax being as controversial as it is, introduced questionably balanced Pokemon like Zacian, Dracovish, Regieleki, and Calyrex-Shadow. This gen had alot against it and the worst part is most of it is justified.
Gen 8 and Gen 9 hate are in "pokemon hardcore fans niche" despite how many hate do you see on this gens on internet, they sold VERY well. Pokemon Black sold less than half of these games on a console that was almost the best all-time sales.
I really enjoyed gen 5, but I really didn’t like the art style when it came out. I much preferred how the gen 3/4 sprites and character models looked. Also coming straight off of HGSS and not being able to walk with Pokemon anymore seemed like a weird design choice. My favorite part of OG Black and White still has to be the desert route and the Volcorona fight. It’s stuck with me all this time, and I don’t really know why. Maybe I’ll remember when I replay the games this year
ehhh the story is literally kid doesnt like what his ego centric father told him to do/be also said father tries to rule the land with tons of money not much of a pokemon game tbh
@@M4x_P0w3r Alright so what is the plot hmm? bad against good? how? Seems pretty linear if they prop up the protagonist(player) as the hero against again a literal rich guy and his over emotional son Also reshiram and zekrom represent ideals..... LITERAL IDEALS what are ideals doing in a pokemon game? Please enlighten me if I am mistaken
@@M4x_P0w3r ""literally not what the plot of the game is. Not at all"" ahh yeah mmm literally not at all oh yeah no context mmm mm mmm just love seeing the same response because it proves you gen 5 stans only resonate with N the emotional individual who has daddy issues. Pokemon not whatever gen 5 is.
Im so thankful someone is calling out the haters, specifically cause ive thought this for a while and 100% agree the level of hate directed towards gen 5 contributed to the decent in quality within the games
gen 5 marked the beginning of the modern era of games as it is a modern Pokémon game in all but art style so I would say it's poor reception should have steered the series away from where it is now if anything.
I was one of those supernerd kids who got their parents to buy a Japanese copy of Black and Black 2 before they came out in the US, and even at 9 years old I knew these games were far better than everything I had played previously in the series. A shame that people dogged on it so f'n hard sheerly because the first game didn't have any prior Pokemon before the postgame, and likely the massive outcry was the reason Game Freak shifted their primary team away from Pokemon and over to the Gear Project. It sucks, but at least the fans pick up the slack with great hacks and fangames.
It's funny because I remember being absolutely amazed playing gen 5 back when I was a kid. It really felt like the best experience I had playing a pokemon game at the time, and to this day I have never been more immersed in a pokemon game. All of my friends seemed to really enjoy it too. The only issue I had the with the game was that the postgame felt a little dull compared to heartgold which I had played previously, but compared to the jackshit you get in the postgame in recent pokemon games it was honestly amazing.
I remember that era of Pokemon. I loved Gen 5 so much, but then I saw everyone hating on the game. I didn't understand why I felt like I had bad taste in Pokemon because of it lol. I'm happy that people are starting to realize it's one of the best gens in the franchise :) I'm horrified of the inevitable remakes though
Another reason Gen 5 was hated that I don't see remembered: the fact that Unova was based off of New York. People were PISSED that the first setting outside of Japan in the main series was the US. I even saw people saying that no it must actually be Hong Kong, not New York. That was some intense copium. I adored Gen 5. It was the most invested into Pokemon I had been since RBY. I loved that we were blocked from using old 'mons. I loved that the story was actually detailed. And being an American, I loved seeing locations I recognized re-imagined in this low-fantasy/low-scifi setting. But I really think the hate Gen 5 got traumatized Game Freak. The games were on a slow decline since Gen 6 and I gave up when Sword and Shield came out with its half-assed quality. Man I miss Pokemon.
People called Gen 4 the absolute best of them all, as if it had no issues. I always found that funny, which is why the hate for the remakes didn't surprise me lol. Remakes for Gen 5 scare me, but I'll always have Gothitelle 😉.
I’ve loved Gen 5 since it came out. I was 11 at the time and I really loved Black (despite vanillite freaking the hell outta me…) and I’ve loved Gen 5 since….
Gen 5 is the One Hot Minute of Pokemon. Just like how that album was universally hated simply because John Frusciante wasn’t in it, gen 5 was hated only because they left out the original pokemon until you beat the game. But at least nowadays both of those are getting the love they deserve.
> Pokemon fans complain about not getting something > Gamefreak listens and gives said thing next gen alongside new gimmicks for newcomers > Fans bitch about getting what they want. There is no winning for Gamefreak. Besides actual issues in their games, the fanbase will always complain, regardless of quality. Why can't we just accept that pokemon is a slow burn type of game that cannot be judged instantly. I swear, the next 3 gens there will be retrospective video essays that talk about how "underrated" gen 8 is, receiving the same praise as gen 5.
@@oyeh8908 its already starting to. Look up recent gen 6 reviews or retrospectives. The majority consensus right now is that gen 6 never got the chance to prove itself because there was no z game after x and y.
@@oyeh8908 no. The consensus when gen 6 ended were these: 1. Mega evolutions were broken but fun; 2. ORAS was the almost-perfect remake; 3. Gen 6 was too easy. The last point was regurgitated to hell and back, and started the idea that "pokemon games have gotten easier". Though my observations about recent discussions for gen 6 were definitely not new takes, these were the ideas and opinions of those who did not bash gen 6 as easily and readily as others. It may not be a new take, but back then, it certainly wasn't popular. Nowadays, it is becoming popular. That being said, it was never the consensus.
@@Strato_Casterrr9898 I think it was popular, just not talked about every much. I bet if you asked people back then, pretty much everyone would agree that Kalos never got to reach its full potential because of the lack of a Z version, and that the lack of Emerald content was one of ORAS' few disappointments.
I never minded Vanilluxe but Garbordor is just awful. The concept itself is fine, like Muk, but the design is not good. That aside, one design doesn't make/break a game. For me, the problem was the odd mix of sprites/grid when by then every other game had moved on to 3D models. Gen 5 also started a lot of the problems we have nowadays, with endless tutorials and cutscenes and weird, overdesigned characters, and the idea of "Masuda goes on vacation and just bases the region 1:1 on whatever country he went to." As a result, the region is extremely linear, too.
I was there and I liked BW even at launch, and even ended White with the "ice cream" on my team, but man they got a metric ton of shit thrown at them lmao every online forum was a warzone. What a time to be alive.
They hated it because the monster design was donkey shit. It was going downhill for a while now, one step at a time, but unova took a GIANT LEAP towards looking like cartoon mascots instead of creative magical monsters. That &' how the online metagame was dogshit. You were REQUIRED to run weather teams, or else you'd be shat on. 10/10 balancing.
My next door neighbor literally dropped the series because he didn't want to play through gen 5 without all the old pokemon. He'll still play the older ones, but nothing past gen 4. I've even tried to get him to play through Black and White 2 first then go through Black and White in a prequel style, but he hasn't done that.
I initially disliked the prospect of playing through a new Gen without any of the older Pokémon. I still think that the core problem of B/W was the fact that you could only obtain non Gen-5 Pokémon after getting the National Dex. People like stuff that they’re familiar with, and Gen 5 had some weak designs (Trubbish, Vanillite, etc.) that elevated the problem. Luckily that was the only real problem the Gen 5 games had, and B2/W2 even addressed it by giving you more options in building your team. They added more routes and access to national Pokémon at the start of the game! Sure, Gen 5 isn’t flawless. For example, I dislike the fact that most gym leaders only had 3 mons and the Elite 4 was made easier. Some Pokémon didn’t even have a full move set! But the games tried so many new things as well. We had moving sprites, fully 3D environments, a WiFi minigame that didn’t feel tacked on, Hidden Abilities, an easy and a challenge mode, a villainous team that defied all previous standards, a bigger map than ever before and so much more. I still believe Gen 5 was peak Pokémon and we’ve never gotten something better than those games.
I enjoyed Black but I was sort of growing out of Pokémon at the time it came out. Going back and replaying it made me realize how good Gen 5 actually was.
To this day, I'm still dissatisfied with the roster the game had to offer. The game of its own, great. Pinnacle of aesthetics for the entire series, great animations, seasons were nice for that one time... But man, the designs just do not agree with me. I don't have any other gen with as many designs that I find just actively unappealing, making scouring routes for pokemon an absolute pain in those games. Patrat is creepy, Watchog's worse, regional bird gives makes me sad, the monkeys haunt my nightmares, there just wasn't any pokemon to latch onto to continue playing the base games. I've done them with drayano's hacks, got the great game with wider array of available pokemon, fixed all the problems immediately.
as a side thought... I don't think the pokemon were badly designed... well, not all of them, anyways, but many aimed for "cool" aesthetic over "simple" or "cute", both of which I personally much prefer. In a comparison, Palpitoad is just an awkward blob, and Mudkip or Wooper are huggable friends. I can see why someone would like Palpitoad, but I just am not that kind of person. Krookodile or Zoroark are absolutely "cool" if you're into that kind of design, but to me they just come off as... unappealing. I do love Whimsicott, one mon in the entire Unova roster that I genuinely adore
If there's one thing to genuinely trash gen 5's designs for it absolutely is the early game trashmons. They feel uninspired and unneeded in a bracket of mons already prone to uninspired and unneeded designs. The rodent and bird of the region are forgettable and kind of ugly, and the elemental monkey genuinely feel like type chart filler and are just a disgrace design-wise. Purrloin is like a less charming Skitty, Munna is too abstract. The only super early mon I like in those games is Lillipup. I actually like a lot of designs later into the game, but the early and common roster has so, so many misses. The cool designs are almost all at least slightly out of the way, and it leads to a terrible impression overall.
Having only been in 4th or 5th grade I remember hearing a lot about how gen 5 was bad from friends but I distinctly remember enjoying it when I actually played it.
Pokemon Black was the first Pokemon game I ever owned, even though I'd been obsessed with Pokemon since I was a toddler. To this day, Gen 5 is still my favorite generation of Pokemon, and no game (not just Pokemon, but no game ever) has ever come close to the experience of my first playthrough of Black.
Gen 5 was the first and last game I was hyped about. There is a good reason why it was the last game I was ever able to look forward to before I played it.
Bw had the best battle animations/setup with gifs and animated sprites, had some amazing new designs such as cofagrigus, had THE best story in any Pokémon by a LONGSHOT, new characters that were written super in depth, amazing settings like the castle and the desert and the big city, you still had puzzle gyms. Post game was awesome. It’s ducking tragic that every game in the series went downhill after this gen
To the people who subscribed to me over this video: Y'all are gonna be disappointed. lol
hey, as long as you're making stuff you want to its good in my book
less disappointed than the seminal catastrophe that happened due to Gen 5 hatred which annihilated the quality of the games
subbing to spite this comment
While I did enjoy Gen 5 myself (more than I did for Gen 4), the hate it got was mostly justified. Pokemon turning to shit has always been inevitable (and already happened before Gen 5, depending on who you ask), the Gen 5 backlash just happened to be the straw that broke the Numel's back. Let's not forget most of what people complained about in modern Pokemon all started in Gen 5 first (extreme linearity, long unskippable cutscenes, annoying friend characters, simplified dungeons and puzzles, not ugly/overdesigned Pokemon designs though because those complaints mostly started with Gen 4); BW was really the first "modern Pokemon game".
@@Advisor17
absolutely false. look at the amount of content and post game material, like the Shiny Haxorus or the Swords of Justice, the ghost girl and the finished interiors; hell, Team Plasma even destroys the linearity of the evil team is defeated before the seventh gym trope.
Entire communities exist for replaying Gen 5 hundreds of times over - I've played through it a dozen times, and XY is unbearable to play through. SM is unbearable to play through again, and so is SV, although the last two are arguably alright in some areas.
neither Hugh, Cheren, or Bianca were annoying friend characters; there was plenty of plot to pad it out. For reference, they each got thirty or so lines of dialogue and had story arcs, standard in every RPG from Zenonia to Genshin; now compare that with eight per four rivals with no story arcs or plotlines. Ffs, Cheren and Hugh aren't even the friend archetype, they're more like Silver or Blue.
also I'd prefer the Gen 5 designs to a single one of these nostalgiabait Gen 1 designs for the past decade.
I'd prefer the Gen 5 detailed and finished interiors and side quest material over the Potemkin villages in every other game after.
There's a reason why ROMhacks which follow BW2 are so popular and go a thousand times more extreme with what BW2 (like Omicron) have a dedicated fan following, whereas the XY "fan base" is essentially a few vocal people who haven't even touched the games!
Damn, this guy makes some great points!!
I do have to ask, since I definitely wasnt online when Gen 5 came out, how does the hate towards Gen 5 compare to the hate towards Gen 9? Granted, I am that person who absolutely loves Gen 9 despite its flaws and performance issues.
the hate for Gen 9 seems so much bigger because the internet is so ingrained in society at this point, so it's not very hard to put out your opinion and have others see it. The hate for Gen 5 was so big that it was of a similar feeling as to current day, yet in a time when the internet and social media weren't such staple factors in everyday life. In 2010 you couldn't get onto Twitter and see a tweet dunking on the newest Pokemon game with 40K likes, that just wasn't a thing back then. The closest would be youtubers screaming about the games on their channels, but that would similarly be much more niche than it is today.@@lewisspring35
how does it feel to be the only other person to remember the cause of all troubles and disasters while people fight over fake reasons they engineered to make themselves feel better
@@shinybreloom4027If you're talking to me, depressing. But I dont let it get to me, because Im having plenty of fun and Im hyped for the DLC.
@@lewisspring35 it’s around the same Gen 5 people hated the Pokémon designs I mean I still dislike some but I don’t hate it tbh. What I do hate is what people hype it for is the story. because that seems like the only good thing I’m hearing from the game like I enjoyed the story but it isn’t like, groundbreaking Pokémon terms I would say it’s a major change tbh.
After repeated instances of "the team of bad guys will get defeated after the seventh badge and before the eighth", the fact that BW managed to have the evil team succeed all the way to the fucking champion himself was so refreshing.
FR, to this day I still believe BW had the best endgame of the entire franchise.
It would be refreshing if there was substance In what they were hoping to accomplish
like a team of humans using pokemon for world domination even though the way they did it was over the top
they got neo team plasma I mean what is even the point if they have a civil war with each other while normal bystanders are just watching? Surely a force against team plasma would exist? Nope just gym leaders and a pokemon champion that retired after being beat by a 12 year old npc aside from the protagonist.
Team Galactic had more ambition
a team that gets large enough to have a civil war against each other?
And the Gym Leaders feeling like lived in humans who traveled around the world and actually got off their ass and assisted you in stopping the evil team when they were about to take over, instead of being purely obstacles with a human skin and having a child do all the work.
@@islandboy9381 gym leaders lived like humans? There whole purpose is to award pokemon trainers badges
To think they did anything more is hilarious
what happened to the pokemon pohleese?
hmmm? No one gonna enforce the amount of taxes ghetsis owes?
Also its not evil if it has its own civil war
I mean Iris a 12 year old npc canonically became a pokemon champion so the whole child doing all the work is literally present
I really would've liked if they stuck to the 'free Pokemon' philosophy than saying it was all a sham. monumental waste of a plot and villain. if I walked away thinking the villains had a better motivation than I did that would be a legendary story.
with that said I played this alongside fallout new vegas, so I may have been spoiled on story lol
Let's be real.... It was only about "HOW IS THERE NO OLD POKÉMON?!" while one of the things people hated in Gen 4 was how Diamond and Pearl had so many typical older choices for Pokémon.
I’d rather play with completely new Pokémon compared to older generation ones.
Yeah, I’d say the only real issue with the “keeping old Pokémon in the postgame” thing is that the games don’t really give you much to make up for that loss in the early game. (Who the hell thought it was a good idea to make it so you can’t even catch the regional bug before the first gym?), though it thankfully picks up the slack later on. B2W2 also thankfully fixed that issue.
haters will always exist ....
So many options? What about Fire types?
At first I though the B/W hate was an overblown thing because me and everyone I knew had a blast with those games.
But then when I played X/Y and saw how few new pokemons there were, they let you choose a starter from gen 1, gave charizard and mewtwo 2 mega evolutions and brough back legendary pokemons from gen 1, everything suddenly clicked.
They listened too much...
@@gaminggranny1541 Pretty sure it was because they were rushed to release the game, so they had to fill the gaps with older pokemon. After all, they already had solved the "nostalgia" problem with BW2 striking a good balance of old and new. No one complained about the sequels regarding that.
Honestly BW did actually suffer in terms of early mons, railroading people onto the monkies was just such an awful choice, and certain bosses, esp. Elesa in bw1, felt like they needed very specific answers
Great game in other ways though
@@amiablereaper B2W2 fixed those issues or softened them then added more content to compensate (content that will never ever be seen again due to 2023 gaming industry standards)
@@shinybreloom4027 oh yeah b2w2 is probably one of the best extra games in franchise history
Oh, and don't worry about Nintendo's re release policy; people are still playing the gen V games, Nintendo just isn't getting any money out of it :P
Gen 5 had so much passion put into it. The world of unova has so many things to discover. It felt like such an adventure looking for things I missed. There are so many pokemon too
but muh charizard™
B2W2 were the greatest pokemon games ever made. Nothing comes close. Even though I really liked HG/SS
@@IschmarVIThis was a generation where there was a Pokémon that was a literal bag of trash
@@ClearestofGluesyeah but your right the other generations before definitely did not have any Pokémon that were based on inanimate objects. Pokémon like Grimer and Muk clearly were introduced in gen 5 🤦♂️
@@ClearestofGluesa shit of the Pokémon in gen one were just birds 💀
Godamn we didn't realize how good we had it
"we" as in not us but people like you
We really didn’t, but i still like some of the new games. Wish we had a new spin off game
@@Unknowncontent14 hugh is literally the reason we got hyper motivated rivals like hau hop and nemona
@@crowmaster9652 never said anything about Hugh, but alright. I like Nemona though, first rival in a while that didn’t annoy me. Scarlet and violet had a good cast of characters and a surprisingly good story, massive improvement compared to sword and shield.
@@Unknowncontent14 i mentioned hugh because he came from your generation so you should talk down on hyper motivated characters
I feel like gen 5 is the reason pokemon/game freak is so hesitant in trying something new or going out of the norms. Also why we have so much gen 1 fan service.
They tried something new with Sun/Moon. They turned the franchise into more story driven games, replaced the gyms for a new type of challenge, and look at what we ended up with. Once again, they found out that what people want is something that follows the formula. SwSh only deviates a little because, once again, they looked at what people liked (pokémon Go), and tried to copy some mechanics like coop raids and the open zone with strong pokémon.
@@rodryguezzz ". They turned the franchise into more story driven games, "
NO they turned the franchised into a fucking cutscene simulator where u cant walk 5 sec without getting interrupted.
of course "what people want" is gonna be the "formula" WHEN EVERYTIME you do something different, you make it in the worst way fucking possible.
"SwSh only deviates a little "
YEAH LMAO having a giant open world and changing basically all the open world mechanics is a "little" ok dude
@@rodryguezzz Nah, Gen 5 was story driven. Gen 7 was a story, and that was it. The gameplay was atrocious in Gen 7, because there was NO exploring or sense of adventure. Just handhold "go here, go there" that was absolutely awful. Haven't played a pokemon game since that travesty. Gen 5 was truly the peak of the franchise.
@@thelegacyofgaming2928I honestly couldn’t even finish SuMo, and I’m glad I didn’t give anything after that a chance either lol
@@C3l3bi1 "WHEN EVERYTIME you do something different, you make it in the worst way fucking possible".
Bold, and false statement.
"YEAH LMAO having a giant open world and changing basically all the open world mechanics is a "little" ok dude"
Ok, now you're just taking the piss on me.
Fake whinning on FF13 "inventing linearity" (I can mention at least 10 previous JRPGs, also linear, not 11 because MMO and 12 (_actually_) tried to be open), just to cover the toriyama nepotism (why else wittlew motomu get a director´s seat, if not by interferance of the creator of Gary Stu Supreme kakarot). All the while acting like today's barren wastelands (filled "at best" with mtx) are somehow *not* YOUR fault.
SwSh were also linear moron, the Wild Area or whatever is called was just a pointless gimmick.
I know because I spent a lot of time and effort trying to get people to see the _real_ problems with SwSh, like Dexit being nintendo twisting your arms to pay up for Pokemon home.
The only "open world" pokemon games are Legends Arceus (a glorified tech demo) and SV (Poke-CyberPunk).
"Cutscene simulator", as if speedrunning didn't involve mashing A like carzy when a character open their mouth...
Gen 5 was definitely the most hated generation on release. There has never been a more controversial roster of Pokémon. Also, there’s a reason why Black/White are the worst selling new gen games. Because they were so hated.
Because they gated the old pokemon behind postgame. Big galaxy brain move masuda.
@@haroldnecmann7040 because gen 5 was supposed to be the “reboot” of the series ofc they gatekeep all the old mons behind the postgame they wanted you to use the new Pokémon instead of the old like how you could only use only Gen 1 Pokémon (even though other generations didn’t exist yet but you get what I mean)
@@haroldnecmann7040 better than outright removing hundreds of Pokémon from each game
gen 6 was a refresher
pokemon fans want a pokemon game not a story that relates to kids with rich egocentric father figures
@@haroldnecmann7040 because during gen 4 people were bitching and moaning that most of the roster in the regional dex was recycled old mons, there is no winning with fans ong
Even nowadays it's not hard to find someone who is not very close to the franchise and still says "oh I liked pokemon a lot up until they were still based on animals, not trash or ice cream like today". This for me is a clear sign the Gen 5 hate was bigger than any other. You don't see nearly as often people outside of the community complaining about dex cut as much as they complained about the designs from back then.
yeah and it also permanently ruined the games to be borderline unplayable and filled with handholding while costing $90 for a "full game" with less content
Garbodor and Vanilluxe are good designs and nothing will convince me otherwise, Garbodor especially is so good
@@sshuckle I like them too!
@@shinybreloom4027 That is just a bs claim that still is not proven
And yet we will praise Voltorb, Geodude, and fucking Gastly. Idc what anyone says Gen 5 will always be my favorite Gen. I'm not blinded by nostalgia, I just genuinely love it. The countless hours I put in that game, the countless times I started a new save file just to complete the entire game over again with different teams each time. Samurott will always be top 10 favorite pokemon in my list. I feel like Gen 5 received too much hate and after we got our recent gens, excluding Sun and Moon, everyone wants to backtrack and say BW2 was the pinnacle as if they never hated it to begin with. Let the OGs have it, y'all can go on and enjoy the mid tier games
I remember passing on gen V when it initially released for other reasons and I’m kinda glad I did cause getting to experience it for the first time in my mid 20s as an adult? You realized how much love went into not only soft resetting the franchise but genuinely making it different from what we grew accustomed too. I actually LOVED having to make a new team of unova only mons and that postgame difficulty spike? Hell yes. It’s a crying shame people have only learned to respect GEN V after seeing how low effort game freaks releases had become since. There’s a reason bw2 are considered the pinnacle of the series and it’s been a steady decline since.
I mean outside of nostalgia they’re very good games
There's a lot to it. Game development is in no way as easy as people think it is. Game Freak's specialty for the longest time was sprite-based games, and they were damn good at it. They still tried really hard on XY and the following games, but 3D games take a lot and I mean a LOT more effort to produce efficiently, especially since they're at a much larger scope. Not only that, but the simultaneous worldwide release of XY caused them to have to cut a lot of stuff. I still like XY because of personal reasons, but there's a reason that the games have had a dip in quality and it's more-so TPCI's fault for constantly pushing the devs to have a mainline game every year. Hardware becomes more demanding to produce for and less simple. It's also not as simple as delaying the games because TPCI makes a lot of money from everything else like merchandise and the card game that the game's release HAS to line up with their plans perfectly or they risk losing billions of dollars, but TPCI unfortunately only cares about the money and Game Freak devs will continue to get screwed over.
@@audreysp602 3D doesn't exactly take more effort, arguably it takes more effort to make 2 different sprites of the same pokemon (front and back facing) for every generation; and even more nightmarishly to make them feel a tad more alive by animating each sprite for those 2 front and back facing state (Gen 5 ones must've been some next level resource sink).
3D only takes more effort once but are more future proof and reusable, clearly it's cheaper and takes less effort later on since even SV reuses XY's models and animations and the only new ones they had to make are the new pokemons (duh); unlike previous games where they remade all the the existing pokemon sprites every generation. I can understand Gen 6 having a dip in quality, but the games after are just puzzling.
Hardware doesn't become more demanding, games does. The hardware is the limiting factor, Gamefreak clearly don't have the resources to optimize the games on a platform like the Switch (a relatively not as powerful console) in time for yearly releases; thanks TPCI for that indeed.
@@shira_yone Really? Last time I checked, SV is using the new models that they started using in PLA. Also they do make new animations every gen still, take a look at the animations for moves like Protect and Gunk shot from Gen 6 compared to now in SV (those are the two biggest ones I can remember off the top of my head). Some animations are reused but they're at least updated slightly to make them higher quality with each new gen
@@audreysp602 I'm sure you still get the point, they are more reusable still and most of the update are just slight visual effect change. The fact that they use models from PLA still means it's a reused asset.
Nothing wrong with reusing assets, the point was it's not going to be as resource intensive as remaking every sprites like in the older gens.
I still think Sword and Shield got a lot more hate than Black and White did.
The difference is that Sword and Shield were hated because of actual problems, whereas Black and White were hated because "oh noooooooo there's an ice cream Pokémon!"
nostalgia blindness, in 10 years people will be saying the same thing about swsh compared to whatever gen 12 games around. BW felt like a huge step down for the series after HGSS at the time and people were right to complain.
@@Mijzelffan oh trust me they’re already started appreciating SWSH before SV came out since the graphics didn’t look the same lol now everyone is appreciating like they everyone weren’t shitting on them since release 🤣 the switch up is crazy
@@Mijzelffan That just implies Pokemon will continue to go downhill and we'll just find the shittiest game at the current time to be better than the future shittier game solely because it'd be less shit. 🤣
@@Mijzelffan "OH NOES! A GENWUNNER!!1!1!"
from genwunners to genfivers to geneighters
Super sad how much people hated gen 5. Best sprite work, completely new pokedex and some are absolute beats to use. Haxorus, darmanitan, scolopede and of course hydreigon... Terrifying. And certainly tried to tell a better story.
The story was good. Those examples you gave are powerhouses, but every generation have them, and those in particular look... ugh. Excadrill at least looked fine I guess.
@@VixYW I would actually say I find it impressive that I don't hate a single design I gen 5 yet I dislike and even loathe so many in gens 8 and 9, if a pokemon wasn't great it was just average but gen 8 and 9 had some legitimatly bad designs, still boils down to personal preference but man it's crazy how the design philosophy just started to change in the last two gens
@@VixYW I like the way they look, especially Shiny Scolipede when it settles with the dust cloud
I generally love Gen 5, but outside of the weak as hell grass types, Emolga, and The Oshawott line...
I don't know that I'd ever choose to use any Pokemon from that era again
Best spritework? Hell no, gen 4 absolutely has the best spritework. I like gen 5 but why do people pretend those janky animations are better than the vibrancy and character of gen 4 sprites
It has been over ten years and gen five still hasn't been outclassed.
In my opinion Sun & Moon and the Ultra games came close but they fumbled the ball SO hard.
@@Sacred_Sword maybe if not for the 4 hours of tutorials
I really want to say Gen 7 was just as good as Gen 5 but I can’t because the ultra games sucked.
@@redrazorx-23 The ultra games were good. They are Just better versions.
@@SERMareep2007 they were practically the exact same games as the OG Sun and Moon until around the time you battle the Elite 4.
90% of the stuff they gave us in the Ultra games could’ve easily been given to us in a free patch and that would’ve happened if Nintendo was actually with the times like other gaming companies like Sony and Microsoft.
I remember getting White 2 and the meme website I used to go to either never talked about it or made fun of Nate’s design. Believe it or not, 2011 and 2012 you were a social outcast for playing Pokémon.
let's be honest though, the sequels are goated but Nate's design is a travesty lol
Ikr. Even when I was an avid fan and counted the days till B2W2 came global I was still weirded out by Nate's hair design. But the hair just got bundled up thanks to the semi-cap (?)
Hi yoshi
Who's Nate ?
I swear I'm the only one who actually likes Nate's design
Gen 3 for me is the most nostalgic gen because that's the gen where I first played pokemon, but by far gen 5 is my favorite all-time because of its well-written story and the incredible music it offers. I pity those who can't at least appreciate what this gen had to offer because they are really missing out on a well-crafted and designed game.
Well said. Nostalgia can blind like fog on glasses.
Gen V had the issue of its audience aging out.
If you were aged 5-10 for RBY (released 1998-2000) then when BW came out in 2011 you were 16-21.
XY (2013 release) only managed to claw back the audience (now 18-23) with full 3D and heavy nostalgia baiting.
Very true and I think an underrated point to consider. That and combined with what I think what a kind of "Pokemon fatigue" at the time, especially behind Black and White were STILL on the DS, instead of being a whole new set of games on a new system, which I think contributed to burnout.
Don't disservice gen 6 with just that. There was so much more than it. It had the best Exp share mechanic of the series, Fairy type was a great adition, the new pokemon designs were amazing, it was a hit as a leap to 3D, the world design was great, the whole region map looping back was way superior than donut Unova, the legendaries were freaking awesome and way better than turbo butt dragons, the music was sick across the board in comparison to the cacophony that was BW1 soundtrack, etc...
@@VixYW I can't tell if this is meant to be bait or you being a die hard gen 6 fan
@@VixYW the box legendaries were sweet (just ignore the hideous mythicals) and it being a leap to 3d at the time was pretty huge despite everyone realising the sprites were more expressive afterwards. Definitely disagree on the other points though if this isn't bait.
"Turbo Butt Dragons" that's gold haha
@@muhammedbadjie1960 bro said XY's OST was better than BW's as if Driftveil City didn't exist, it's gotta be bait 😭😭
If only they knew how good they had it
Gen 5 was my favorite gen when it came out (and still is) and so I felt very alienated by how much hate it received for the dumbests reasons.
Glad nowadays it receives the recognition it deserves, but it might have come a little too late cuz as Werster put it, that feedback might have caused GF to not want to try anymore, F.
Yes. BW were Masuda's Magnum Opus, but few understood his vision (and translated interviews wouldn't hit the internet until years afterwards) and even fewer appreciated it. Between his precious child floundering and getting spit upon and XY doing so well despite how atrocious it was just because "3D Pokémon", Masuda and Ohmori lost all faith in the fanbase and just stopped trying. They're both bitter fucks online (moreso Masuda) and in videos after BW they're literally never happy. I was on the #FireMasuda train after what he said about the Battle Frontier and why it wasn't in ORAS. Now we need to get Ohmori the fuck out of Game Freak if we want any chance at all of Pokémon being lead by passionate, caring fans of the franchise again.
Same
I think Sun and Moon are my favorite Pokemon games what black and white definitely are number two Sun and Moon was the first full experience I had with a Pokemon game cuz I actually played diamond like seven years ago got all the way up to the second gym and that's about it I actually really want to play sword and shield the game seemed pretty good because it has black and white Pokemon in it also Ruby and Sapphire cut the Pokedex first but they're held as god tier games but when sword and shield does it it's universally hated what about the fact that meteor has not been in a Pokemon game since ultra Sun and Moon I thought it would be funny to talk about these things because I'm bored and I'm about to go to sleep
Oh same here. I’m so glad that BW is looked on fondly now and that I can talk about how much ive always loved it freely. It’s always been one of my faves and I never understood the complaints. In fact, 90% of the designs in BW were absolutely fire and still are to this day.
@FatherofGray To be fair, it is definitely a business strategy than anything hence why GF doesnt try to make a quality and wholesome game. Black and White in the west came out at the time when the 3DS was realeased and those games being released on the DS caused those games to underperform GF standards. Contrast to X and Y, those games which were 3DS releases did better. And because of what those games had implemented i.e. easier difficulty, WW releases, nostalgia fan service, lack of post game, etc is what probably convinced GF that thesr were the elements that madr Pokemon successful. And we know how the rest of the games especially Sword and Shield/Scarlet and Violet turned out
Pokemon Black was my first pokemon game. I was 8 years old and didn't even speak english when I played through it for the first time. I was genuinely surprised to find out that gen 5 used to be so unpopular. Especially since it's basically considered the peak of the franchise nowadays.
It’s suggested to be the peak because those who played it as kids have romanticized it and the newer games have made it look better in comparison.
@@nicolasg8091 Yeah, crazy that people can't see that. Gen 3 wasn't that popular for being a soft reset of the series, gen 4 wasn't all that popular because it was super fucking slow and had no fire types, etc etc. Eventually gen 6, 7, 8 and 9 will be considered peak fiction one day
@@nicolasg8091 I get that there's a lot of bias involved (I think most people in these comments grew up with gen 5) but gen 5, especially the sequels, are some of the most polished games to date. Everything since gen 6 has felt pretty rushed. Gen 1 and 2 weren't great due to hardware limitations. Gen 4 (DPP) was held back by its engine. I think gen 3 and HGSS are on a similar level with gen 5. Although gen 5 will always be more special to me since it was my first generation.
@@paoloh885 Gen 5 was very well polished, but not very well designed imho. True that the sequels made it better, but the way I see it, it only got as good as DP. Platinum and HGSS were way better.
@@VixYW I have to agree that especially in terms of map design gen 5 isn't that good compared to gen 4 mostly because of the linearity. But as a side effect the balance of gen 5 definitely felt better than the earlier gen's (for example if you play the game normally you shouldn't have to grind, but the game is still relatively challenging). The linearity also allowed for more complex plot/story.
The hate that gen 5 got did irreparable to the franchise. After that, from gen 6 onwards and still to this day, TPC panders to Kanto constantly and it’s awful. The blatant favoritism to Kanto is seen in the games, cards, anime, etc and I get so tired of it.
Pokemon B/W had a no EXP thing? A little dive into why that exists is apparently a form of ANTI-PIRACY. That means those """super-nerds""" on 4chan were using pirated copies. Holy shit looool, but that's a really ingenious form of anti-piracy honestly.
Incredibly weak anti-piracy considering they were able to get around it in less than a month after the Japanese release.
Funnily enough the biggest of those "super nerds" was Joe Merrick from serebii who, after saying that his "imported" BW cartridge arrived, reported that the games have some kind of tutorial mode in the beginning which doesn't let his mons get any exp, and got clowned on for playing on a pirated ROM.
@@TheRenegade191 Joe Merrick, making himself a clown? No fucking way.
@Wolpertinger WOOOOOW, just WOOW.
@@TheRenegade191serbeiis a joke, it sucks theyre the only reliable source of info
I remember being in middle school, so hype for gen 5 to come out. The amount of hate it got was unreal
In summary, "Wheres my Pikachu, wheres my Charizard. Fucking trashbag. Fucking Icecream. Fuck this game." ROFL
I wasn't apart of that group of people as I was not even 10 years old and didn't even have access to internet at the time so I was not even aware of the hate. I love gen 5, as Werster said to those individuals, "thanks guys... Pricks."
lazy designs
no real world enforcement, just rely on gym leaders and champion that had zero staple
you guys love gen 5 because you relate to the N character
its the fact you guys focus on that more than the literal pokemon designs
@@crowmaster9652 Bro... It's the only game with a good story, watch your mouth. If you can't see that, I think you need to find Jesus.
@@crowmaster9652 not a single said thing is true Jesus Christ
@@Kkkk-ll3ed plus 2 for the one who thinks he is right
@@crowmaster9652 lazy designs are the ones in gen 9, gen 5 had a bunch of bangers and funny enough i think 8 which is one of the worst srill had hood pokemon designs
I'd like to suggest another reason that I remember. When BW first came out, the 3DS was right around the corner, and a lot of people had the opinion that sprite based Pokemon was getting old and dated, and wanted new 3D games for the new system. So when B2W2 came out and the 3DS was already a year and a half old, it felt even MORE dated and a lot of people weren't taking it lightly.
i will never forget how everyone clowned on oshawott when gen v came out. and now its a beloved mon. its so insane to me because oshawott was my fave since day one
Same Oshawott is also my favorite.
OMG YES!! God hypocrites. Poplio too. Starter favoritism suck too
@@GothAngel98 omg i remember the poplio hate so vividly. and when people dissed on it for having a feminine evolution too :')
also i agree, the starters get so much attention while other cute/cool mons get overlooked. mismagius is probs my top pokemon and she gets barely any love
@@animerehab at least gen 5 weren’t as worst as gen 6… poor delphox and chesnaught fans
people bitch about how "eehhn myeh gen 5 has trash bag pokemon and ice cream pokemon" but those same people forget that gen 1 literally had two snake pokemon who's names were literally snake and kobra backwards
yeah, gen 1 had those designs ... and I love it :D
I also like the trash bag.
The Gen 5 hate was craaaaazy back in the day. I was 10 at the time and my friends made fun of me for liking B/W.
Apparently certain people felt called out by this video and can't admit it...
lol
Sad too, B2W2 fixed nearly every issue people had with BW1, but the damage was already done.
Gen 5 was amazing. GF literally literally their whole heart into it.
B2 W2 are amazing
gen 5 made leavanny
and for that
thank you
Black/White, and Black2/White 2 are literally the pinnacle of core Pokemon gameplay, design, music and story... I will never understand the hate.
It took a while for people to start seeing the light of gen 5. I thought the trash bag and ice cream were funny memes but I always loved BW. Once we started getting truly mediocre and broken games it started putting things in perspective
@saucegod9000 I'm a big gen 7 defender but I totally understand the slow cutscenes are a dealbreaker for some people.
Vanillite and Trubbish are really cool designs and people who hate on them are clowns.
"Its all your fault that we will never get a good Pokémon game ever again" even though I like SM and LA, I cant help but agree with this statement
Nah, cant nlame you, not that much at worst.
XY, Sm and LA had good ideas even if the execution is... let's just say i'd rather be nice here...
LA was good, SM is sort of this DPRK effect where once you zoom in it gets so much worse
Gen 5 is my favorite because it felt like gen 1 all over again. Seeing every pokemon you encounter is new, not to mention making new teams was amazing i got so many replays from it.
I felt the irrational hatred of Gen 5 even IRL - there was a person I talked to in high school that just... didnt like it, but never gave a real explanation why. It was probably the Pokemon in hindsight, but it just bugged me.
Was it the idea that the games tried to do something different? Because if there's anything Pokemon fans are deathly allergic to, it's change.
"if there's anything Pokemon fans are deathly allergic to, it's change." Ironic, since the change/evolution is such a big theme in the franchise. Well, maybe that's why Ash refused to evolve so many of his pokémon.
its because gen 5 didnt feel like pokemon
it told a basic story that was more human than pokemon
because there was more focus on the human aspect it drew attention away from the poorly designed pokemon and the awful sprite animation in battle
its not hard to dislike gen 5
You do know this is the type of defense Gamefreak uses when every new generation they cut features in favor of something else right?
@@islandboy9381 The difference is they incorporate pokemon with the human story element now
its no longer oh we're gonna just forget pokemon
gen 6 did a good job establishing the importance of pokemon with humans
gen 5 never solved the problem that they established at the start of the adventure with team plasma they wanted to liberate pokemon only to capture them to rule the world.
Its just a lie backed up by Ghetsis massive bank account
@@crowmaster9652 Bro just say that you don’t like the game, everything you said can be dismantled whit facts just by checking on a fucking wiki without even play the game, the fact that Getchis made up to conquer the world by lying on everything was revealed to be a perfect plan and that’s what was happening until our protagonist kicked in, that’s straight up better than every other plot Pokémon’s game have got, gym leaders beign useful is just perfect, why should they only do their job? Even if there is someone that is nearly conquering the world under their eyes? Just like let him be the king whitout even trying to do something?! That’s why all other gym leader from other games literally sucks, the world is dying/beign conquered and all you do is letting a fool do whatever he wants whit everyone’s life? Like in dppt everyone is watching Camilla and a 12 years old trying to stop Cyrus whitout even trying to help them
"fucking trash bag, fucking ice cream".
This was me wholeheartedly lol. I actually never bought another pokemon game after platinum and heartgold. But damn i was so angry for seemingly nothing.
At least you admit that you and other’s actions led us down this dark path.
I def skipped BW2 after selling my copy of White shortly after buying it (It was such a trash experience) but I tried with Gen 6 again. Then moved on to better series overall.
Rock with arms now that's fine, but a trash bag? Oh the humanity!
The game takes place in "America" OF COURSE its going to be the most hated entry!
I remember that even during Gen III the general consensus was that it was worse than Gen II (mind you this was before Emerald came out).
It was the first Gen that didn’t let you transfer Pokemon from the last generation so that might’ve had an impact
Gen 3 is my favorite gen and, in all honesty, I've never been super huge on gen 2 even though it gave me my favorite types and my favorite pokemon
And now the Internet Gen Wars Discourse increasingly pins Gen II as the worst of the four classic gens, while Gen III increasingly gets touted as the best. That's even happening with Smogon's competitive metagames as we speak, not just the actual gameboy games.
of course, because you initially couldn't get charizarddddddd in gen 3. Obviously, people hated on it 😆
@@yourdaganTbf that's true on a competitive level. NO ONE likes gen 2 because it's needlessly grindy/boring, and gen 3 is relatively popular, although people seem to prefer the Ultra Metagame by far.
Part of me has to wonder if we were kinda conditioned to be nostalgia-blind back then.
I mean think about it: I haven't heard many complaints on Gen 3, and it wasn't until the remakes where I've heard even SOME complaints about Hoenn, and even then there were more defenders anyways. (I mean everyone jokes about IGN's "too much water" comment, but no one really considered that that might be a legitimate criticism of Hoenn. (Doesn't help that it's IGN.) Maybe the entire East side of Hoenn is empty and meandering, and the fact that it's water means basically every tile is tall grass meaning possibly lots of encounters which means a lot of wasted time running from Tentacool. You might say "just buy Repels lol", and... That just proves my point. I shouldn't HAVE to buy 30 Super Repels to make it less annoying to traverse THE ENTIRE EAST SIDE OF HOENN. I want to explore these routes and find items and maybe new Pokemon to catch. I shouldn't HAVE to use Repels to make the East side of Hoenn less tedious to explore because it shouldn't be tedious to explore to begin with. (Then there's the whole ordeal of finding Sootopolis and the Magma/Aqua's underwater cave...) Tangentially I've heard some people say that Hoenn hits a lot of similar notes to Kanto, which might not be a coincidence.
Likewise the Gen 2 remakes had little complaints as well (probably helped by it being celebrated as a kind of "resurrection" of those games since Gen 2 mons were kinda stuck on their original games and their "fix" before HGSS was far from clean), and one of the defining traits about the Gen 2 games was the ability to visit Kanto in postgame.
Then there's Gen 4 and it's arguably another step away from being similar to Kanto, and you start to see some complaints. And yes, I know the game is sluggish, but Gen 2 also had this problem and I did NOT hear the same number of complaints about HGSS'a speed as I did with DPPt (or at all, actually). It goes to show how much people will set aside or even ignore possible shortcomings for the sake of nostalgia.
...Then you get to Gen 5. No returning Pokemon, no similar landmarks or routes, NOTHING familiar. Nothing to artificially and superficially inflate the game's greatness before it even comes out, and no buffer to cushion the complaints from idiots that'll complain about an ice-cream cone but conveniently ignore two instances of an evolution being the same Pokemon but three times. A trash bag is a horrid design? Good thing we have our living pile of sludge that evolves into the *exact same thing except bigger.*
And honestly the worst part is this generation of Pokemon fans is probably going to end up the same way as before. It feels like they've doubled-down on the pandering, and any original idea has to have a massive safety net carried by Charizard and Pikachu. (In the very least Legends Arceus felt like a breath of fresh air, even if it is kinda chasing the Breath of the Wild trend of an open world adventure, and Gen 9 does seem like it's taken a bit more of a departure from the usual formula.)
around 2013 i heard people call gen 3 the "black sheep" of the series but nobody really elaborated on what they meant iirc lol
I didn't buy Black/White when it came out, but for different reasons. After getting burned hard on Diamond/Pearl, and seeing just how much better Platinum was, I assumed the same thing was going to happen with gen 5: They'd rush out the unfinished two versions first, then later release a far superior third version. So I didn't buy Black/White because I figured I'd just wait for the inevitable Gray version, until GF pulled a sneaky on us. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of other people had a similar mindset.
Gen 5 is going to be the last Gen worthy of a redemption arc I feel like, the “gen 6 was actually good” narrative bothers me since it was the very first Pokémon game I ever completed at the ripe age of 9… and I still think it’s a heavily flawed game that deserved its criticisms. Gen 7 followed suit with a lot of similar issues and additional issues, and Gen 8 and 9 kind of speak for themselves for their controversies
Yeah, X/Y are so bad. Bland region, bland rivals, bland gym leaders, bland elite four, bland champion, bland evil team, no post game to speak of, pathetically easy even for a Pokémon game. The only positives are a great soundtrack (like most Pokémon games), character customisation, a great regional dex and the PSS.
The worst games in the franchise after BD/SP, for me.
Well, at least gen 7 actually had an interesting story that only came close to the level of gen 5, right? But of course, I don't like how the Ultra games for Sun & Moon ruin the story completely. And the extra content wasn't even worth it either.
For all its flaws, I still think gen 7 did a lot of things right too and found it way more enjoyable than X/Y. I liked the story and care about most of the characters since they actually have a personality and aren't bland and forgettable like most of X/Y's characters. It remains my second favorite gen, right behind gen 5.
Gen 9 just makes me angry. The Area Zero section was phenomenal and almost made me forgive the game for being such a broken mess. The potential is there, and the games for the most part are pretty fun, but they clearly still need at least a couple more years of development to even be considered finished games. It could have been one of the best games in the series and they just completely fucked it up. To me the games died once they transitioned to the Switch. They were pretty much all bad, with Legends Arceus being the only exception.
gen 6 was an actual refreshment
pokemon champion did something
team flare was much more lethal
there was lore
great pokemon designs
fairy type integrated well
gym leaders actually great and challenging
better interaction with rivals
3D models that looked great
staple cities to explore
amazing ost
team flare didnt have a civil war
pokemon champion didnt canonically lose to a 12 year old npc
the game felt like a pokemon game
gen 5 didn't feel like a pokemon game
@@crowmaster9652 "OH NOES! A GENWUNNER!1!1!!1"
Its always neat to see someone of wersters position bring this up. The internet was and still is still full of attention seeking jackasses that will never formulate a rational opinion and will instead bandwagon of any strong reaction to a popular thing just to feel like they belong in a crowd and pokemon just so happens to be one of the biggest targets for that.
The takes you see from that era are just so fucking irrational, like...
Cant get your favorites all of a sudden? thats been a thing since gen 3 and its been done precisely to force players into not going with the same 5 mons every game.
The game is too linear? The most open any game has been before this was allowing you to skip 1 or 2 gym leaders, thats it, you not being able to skip a single boss trainer to steam roll them later isnt exactly going to kill the game.
They made an ice cream, gear and trashbag pokemon and creativity suddely died because they exist? My brother in Christ, theyve incorporates objects to mons SINCE GEN 1 and those are just 8 OUT OF 800+ MONS IN THE ENITRE GAME.
Jigglypuff is just Kirby, and Jigglypuff has become one of the most iconic pokemon despite it being completely unremarkable
@@UltLuigi1 that has nothing to do with what i just said but do not diss kirby like that, by comparing it to the moon rabbit siren blob that has one joke and nothing else
The cope us strong in this one
@@UltLuigi1 And Mewtwo is Giegue from Mother 1
Only thing I disagree with here (as someone for whom, at the age of 10, BW was Game Freak's magnum opus) is refuting that Unova is too linear - that's really a matter of taste in RPGs, and I can understand having a distaste for that particular aspect. BW was the first time a mainline Pokémon game was an entirely linear experience start-to-finish, which was probably due to the focus on an RPG-like narrative that, in BW's case, necessitated such a design.
To be fair, compare Game Freak's golden boy RBY here, and you'll see that at least in terms of Gym progression, the linearity really does fade away a short while in; though there's clearly an intended structure of order, this can be toyed with just after Misty. Brock and Misty are required fights to progress past an NPC and trees respectively, but afterwards, the only Gym Leaders who have any other Leader fights in their way are Blaine (Surf is required to reach Cinnabar Island, so Koga has to be beaten first) and Giovanni (who only shows up in his Gym after all the other Leaders are defeated). That means that Lt. Surge, Erika, Sabrina (granted, after clearing Team Rocket out of Silph Co.) and Koga (followed by Blaine at some point) can be fought in any order, as Fly, while helpful, isn't required to get around Kanto. Does this make RBY a masterpiece by itself, while ruining BW? Not at all, but I appreciate the ability to get lost in RBY's Kanto if the player can figure out how - not that RBY had a very complex story to balance that freedom with, though that's a different kettle of fish.
Granted, that aspect of RBY's scenario design itself didn't exactly last in Pokémon, but there wasn't an immediate transition to a more linearly-routed scenario in the games either; the next few regions all had some elements of non-linearity somewhere in story/map progression, even if they were brief. More to the point, the layouts of the region maps and their structures at least implied the region to be a living, breathing place, where trainers living in these regions could theoretically travel all around in a different way to your character - I think Hoenn's a particularly good example of this, but Johto and Sinnoh are strong here too. Unova, on the other hand, is so streamlined in its pathways that this illusion is harder to maintain, thus the linearity of the games is much more noticeable. The journey through the region, as well as the world, is still charming to me, but I can see that for some, Game Freak may have stripped back the curtain a little too far in that regard - not that any of this justifies the spite towards the game when it came out, of course.
tl;dr: mostly agree, just think you're underestimating non-linearity in old-school Pokémon. Don't blame you if you didn't read all that, just didn't want to misrepresent my stance with poor, unnuanced phrasing, as is common on today's internet.
It’s crazy to think people hated those games so much, especially seeing Pokémon now, I never played a game after Gen 7, and I still haven’t finished playing my copy of pokemon Sun, that was the Gen that killed pokemon for me for a while, I can’t even touch the new gens
What I found crazy about Gen 5 is how ambitious it was with the Pokemon it gave to the player. You could argue lots of games let you have overpowered Pokemon before the League but Gen 5 was like no other. Most of the Pokemon in the Desert Resort, an area accessible before the third Gym Leader, are broken in some way, like Darumaka, Krookodile, even Sigilyph is the only fast Psychic-type in the game.
Black and White 2 went CRAZY with making powerful Pokemon easily accessible, you can get a Riolu before the first Gym, a Lucario before the second and an Eevee before the third, you're given a Skill Link Minccino FOR FREE, a Volcarona halfway through the game, all three Swords of Justice just APPEAR during the main story, Aron in Mistralton Cave, the Giant Chasm is full of insane encounters like Mamoswine, Weavile and fucking Metagross. You know how rare it is to get Metagross in the main story of a Pokemon game? Those games were the first time it was possible, and I don't know about Gen 8 and 9, but to my knowledge it has only been possible once since, and that's as a Beldum in the Alola games. Black and White 2 makes Metang not hard to find in the slightest, one level away from evolving, right before the Kyurem and Ghetsis fight. Even in the post-game you can get two guaranteed Shiny pseudo-legendaries, one for completing the Black Tower/White Treehollow and one for seeing every Pokemon in the Unova Dex. Zorua was also accessible outside of an event for the first time here.
People really do lack self awareness. It seems like people forgot the reason you play games is for entertainment and enjoyment purposes rather than trying to act superior or morally better than everyone else.
Ironic then, that gen 5 has the best sprites, what with it being the only gen where Nintendon't was smart enough to recognize the superiority of black outlines for your 3d models.
i always thought it was hilarious that people would trash gen 5 on its "uncreative" pokemon... meanwhile gen 1 has some eggs with faces, pokeballs... with faces and big piles of purple shit with, you guessed it, faces
Uncreative nothing many of them are just boring ir ugly
I think Voltorb had a good design, being a play on the classic mimic enemy.
But electrode is lazy amd stupid. (Even though I like electrode)
THAT LAST BIT FOR FUCKING REAL BRO. Hello, gen 5 stan since the day it was new. Game got so much shit, I was so heavy into the Pokemon community during those times, the hate was so bad, and often just so unwarranted. Dear Arceus, it was hard to escape. I made some really good friends though who were just as passionate for the franchise as me though. But, no, B2W2 didn't sell the best, and every game prior sold like hot cakes. Nowadays we get buggy messes due to rushed products. Real fantastic.
I was part of that croud. And I still stand to the position regarding some of the worse designs that stand out compared to Gen 1-4. But I judged before even giving the game a chance. And when I played through Black 2 for the first time, I deeply regretted being part of that crowd. There's so much love and care put within this game and most of the issues from Black/White were adressed and fixed. Whereas Black/White aren't perfect games, the story and characters ooze with charme. I do feel partly responsible for the lack of quality in Pokémon games nowadays
In a way this feels a lot like what happened to the Paper Mario series. I find it baffling though, that Nintendo, the company famous for doing whatever they want and not listening to feedback, decided to take feedback and make those two series some of the lowest-quality of their franchise.
Pokémon and PM still have tons of effort put into them, but what that works achieves just doesn’t feel worth it to me.
A fish, a rat, a seal, and a woman doing blackface are your average gen 1 designs. Do NOT talk about the "worst designs" being mostly from gen 5. And gen 1 isn't the only gen from 1-4 to be a huge letdown. Gen 2 is such a letdown that there are only 2 starters in that game. Idk why they immediately ditched the Grass/Water/Fire trio in favor a Fire/Water duo in the sequel and then went back to it in the 3rd gen, but they did for some reason.
The only other Pokemon in gen 2 that are worth getting excited over are Ampharos, the legendaries, and Tyranitar, which is just Godzilla. The rest are either animals or baby evolutions to gen 1 weirdos like Jynx and Electabuzz. The gen 2 legends are at least very lore-centric and have actual inspirations from real life eastern mythos. Meanwhile the gen 1 legends are a cat and it's anthropomorphic clone. And the byproduct of that clone is that one of the other Pokemon in the game is a blob that changes into one of the many fish and bird designs that are totally super inspired.
Gen 3 continues to not break boundaries by introducing mostly animals with a few standouts that look like ugly people (Medicham), but by and large, breaks no molds. The only Pokemon worth getting excited about are the starters, Gardevoir, Manectric, Metagross, and the 2 new Dragon types, Flygon and Salamence.
Gen 4 was so bland that all it had to show for itself was the fact that it took some of the WORST Pokemon from gens 1-3, and I mean the real fucking *_SHITTERS_* and gave them evolutions. Tangela? Mono-Grass in a generation FULL of Grass/Poison types. Lickitung? Seriously? Of all the Normal type Pokemon, you really wanna lie to me and say you EVER used Lickitung? When Snorlax was right there? Gligar and Sneasel? Some of the weakest Pokemon to ever not evolve until gen 4 saved them. Gen 4 was so bland that we all know everyone else's team.
Starter, Luxray, Staraptor, Lucario, Floatzel/Roserade, and Garchomp. You had to go out of your way to be a contrarian if you had a different team, and even then, that was on a repeat playthrough. Gen 4 introduced *_FOUR_* new Fire types. And if you didn't pick Chimchar, you missed out on meeting *_THREE OF THEM_* and the 4th one was Magmortar, which, again, was an attempt to save the thoroughly-mediocre-because-it-was-gen-1-filler-trash, Magmar.
@@loudwhispre9406 chikorita?
Krabby, seel, voltorb, rattata. Garbage design and name. What do we do with magnemites evolution? Just make three of them. What do we do with dug trios evolution? Just make three of them. What do we with doduos evolution? Just give them three heads. Also, exeggcute. Literal cracked eggs with a face. Lmao
gotta say you have some big balls for publicly saying to everyone that you're a hypocrite and that you contributed to the fall of this franchise
I was subconsciously part of the hater wave as a kid. I think I got bored of Pokémon after 4 and became “too cool” to play when I was 12-13. Modern warfare had just come out, I got a 360 for Christmas after my parents officially divorced (plz be happy, here’s an Xbox, lmao love my mom.) I stopped playing Pokémon for another 15 years and here I am trying to catch up on all the handhelds before I start a switch poke title. The nostalgia has been an amazing trip, but I wish it was still all the craze like when we were kids. Trading with each other every couple months etc
That’s the sad truth. Why would gamefreak put much effort into a game when it gets shit on like it did in gen 5. no wonder they use the cheap way nowadays
Exactly, why put effort instead of focusing in profit?
And we all know, if there's something that sells more than sex, it's nostalgia...
The fanbase is like that toxic girlfriend and gen 5 was the boyfriend that treated her right.
The fanbase left gen 5 behind for a better gen but realized too late what they had was good and tried to go back to gen 5 and apologize lol
Gen 5 basically did what gen 1 did. Only difference is that gen 1 started the franchise. Gens 3-5 were the golden age of pokemon. Had the best mainline games and spin offs.
gen 5 is what gen 1 wanted to be
everything about gen 5 is why it is the best of pokemon
"It is all your fault we'll never get a good pokemon game again"
Thank you, thank you, always great to meet a fan, it was a pleasure. No gen will be allowed to surpass gen 3, ever. Mwahaha.
completely agree with the last part. Every new Pokémon game that comes out now is the exact opposite of what would get me back into the series, and it's ALL because of the backlash to Gen V, the first and last time they tried to change up the formula SLIGHTLY.
I loved gen 5 on release, this is what I wanted a fresh start since I didn't really like Gen 4. I remember reading back in the day that Gen 5 was the worst pokemon game since it was all new , the complaints were endless from designs , no old pokemon returning, etc. Never understood the hate if got
Newer players tend to downplay the hate to defend their newer games, like Sword and Shield, which I personally find annoying.
even comparing Gen 5 to SwSh is unbearable. SwSh is a walking simulator.
I mean thats the only way anybody can find any game past 6 "good", is if they never played anything else better.
Gen 8 and 9 are so beyond dogshit as games thats insane, and its probably never getting better since poke fans keep buying that garbage.
Exactly. Every gen gets shat on on release. That’s just what happens when your franchise is as huge as it is. But we have to admit that Game Freak were being hella ballsy in making Gen V, making 156 completely new Pokémon and locking all the rest behind the postgame. I loved that decision, but I get why people didn’t. On the other hand, I did indeed like that players were forced to use new Pokémon. To those who didn’t like it? Awww, you can’t use a Gyarados for the 15th game in a row? Boo hoo. Grow up. Time to use something else. It’s called trying new things.
I didn't have internet back then to see people shit on them
Let's be real here, Garbodor and Vanilluxe are some of the most creative designs we'll ever see from Pokemon, because who _actually_ thinks to create a garbage bag or ice cream pokemon?
Not the Fandom, that's who. 95% of fakemon art ends up being "animal the artist likes, but elemental."
Trubbish is delightfully derpy. So underappreciated that thing imo.
I’m somewhat vindicated that people like Gen 5 now, but I’m still super salty about it especially because the people praising Gen 5 so much now are also unfairly harsh to SV and LA. It’s the same story again 10 years later, people don’t realize that and I’m super fucking miffed about it
I love how all the people who didn't buy and hated 5th gen have reduced the entire franchise to a shit hole of mediocre and embarrassing games only for equally mediocre excuses like: "I DON'T LIKE THIS PoKeMOn" Oppressing the attempted Game Freak and The Pokemon Company to revolutionize the entire franchise towards a hypothetical future of increasingly better quality games.
Funnily enough, I was super happy playing gen 5. I just got done playing gen 4 and seeing this new game with all new pokemon was amazing to me with starters I loved. I really wish it wasn't hated like that...
I loved gen 5 from the moment I saw plasma in Accumula town and the N battle right after. The game seemed similar to past games I loved yet fresh in all the right ways. B2W2 have stayed in my top 3 Pokémon games.
To this day, Black & White are still the lowest selling "new gen" games. I am not justifying their laziness and over saturation of games, but it's more understandable when you realize that one of the best games in the series were recieved with such a backlash
I'm still going to complain about the bad translation/prose (HGSS has this problem too) unless/until someone decides to fix it.
Now that you mention it, we should be upfront about how a lot, and I mean _a lot_ of jrpgs have shoddy localizations.
I don't mean the translations, but how awkward the dialogue feels. Like, not even FF is medieval anymore, why the over grandiose dialogue?
As if the "interactive anime" bullshit excuse wasn't a problem...
@@JuanLeon-oe6xe HGSS/BW/B2W2's problem was that its dialogue (at least in EN) was too stiff; similar issue to your complaint, but on the other end of the scale.
@@UltimaSpark50 There might be a couple reasons, not good ones tho...
The textboxes are too small, for longer scenes it´s too many A presses to chnage 2 lines at a time (as reference, RPGMaker gives 4). Also... well, "too much text" otherwise, concise yet expressive/emotional is difficult to find.
That does begs the question of why it hasn't been addressed yet... I'm beginning to believe my "conspiracy" theory that Pokémon being (this badly) rushed is not by far a new development (or I´m just slow on picking this up...)
I feel like Gen 8 is a very close second if not arguably more hated than Gen 5.
When Game Freak announced there was gonna be no National Dex, it was on-sight for this game. Not to mention the graphics, the animations, the overall lower difficulty compared to other gens, Dynamax being as controversial as it is, introduced questionably balanced Pokemon like Zacian, Dracovish, Regieleki, and Calyrex-Shadow. This gen had alot against it and the worst part is most of it is justified.
Gen 8 and Gen 9 hate are in "pokemon hardcore fans niche" despite how many hate do you see on this gens on internet, they sold VERY well.
Pokemon Black sold less than half of these games on a console that was almost the best all-time sales.
Hot Take: Gen V is best gen
Makes me proud to be one of the few people who said gen 5 was their fav right away
I really enjoyed gen 5, but I really didn’t like the art style when it came out. I much preferred how the gen 3/4 sprites and character models looked. Also coming straight off of HGSS and not being able to walk with Pokemon anymore seemed like a weird design choice.
My favorite part of OG Black and White still has to be the desert route and the Volcorona fight. It’s stuck with me all this time, and I don’t really know why. Maybe I’ll remember when I replay the games this year
Look at my pfp...
I shit my pants when the first trailer dropped. The japanese one with raikou.
THE POKEMIN MOVE!!!
It had the best story for sure. The map wasn’t that bad either.
ehhh the story is literally kid doesnt like what his ego centric father told him to do/be
also said father tries to rule the land with tons of money
not much of a pokemon game tbh
@@crowmaster9652 🧢
@@crowmaster9652 That's literally not what the plot of the game is. Not at all.
@@M4x_P0w3r Alright so what is the plot hmm? bad against good? how? Seems pretty linear if they prop up the protagonist(player) as the hero against again a literal rich guy and his over emotional son
Also reshiram and zekrom represent ideals..... LITERAL IDEALS what are ideals doing in a pokemon game?
Please enlighten me if I am mistaken
@@M4x_P0w3r ""literally not what the plot of the game is. Not at all""
ahh yeah mmm literally not at all oh yeah no context mmm mm mmm just love seeing the same response because it proves you gen 5 stans only resonate with N the emotional individual who has daddy issues.
Pokemon not whatever gen 5 is.
People owe gen 5 a HUGE apology
Im so thankful someone is calling out the haters, specifically cause ive thought this for a while and 100% agree the level of hate directed towards gen 5 contributed to the decent in quality within the games
gen 5 marked the beginning of the modern era of games as it is a modern Pokémon game in all but art style so I would say it's poor reception should have steered the series away from where it is now if anything.
I was one of those supernerd kids who got their parents to buy a Japanese copy of Black and Black 2 before they came out in the US, and even at 9 years old I knew these games were far better than everything I had played previously in the series. A shame that people dogged on it so f'n hard sheerly because the first game didn't have any prior Pokemon before the postgame, and likely the massive outcry was the reason Game Freak shifted their primary team away from Pokemon and over to the Gear Project. It sucks, but at least the fans pick up the slack with great hacks and fangames.
It's funny because I remember being absolutely amazed playing gen 5 back when I was a kid. It really felt like the best experience I had playing a pokemon game at the time, and to this day I have never been more immersed in a pokemon game. All of my friends seemed to really enjoy it too. The only issue I had the with the game was that the postgame felt a little dull compared to heartgold which I had played previously, but compared to the jackshit you get in the postgame in recent pokemon games it was honestly amazing.
I remember that era of Pokemon. I loved Gen 5 so much, but then I saw everyone hating on the game. I didn't understand why I felt like I had bad taste in Pokemon because of it lol. I'm happy that people are starting to realize it's one of the best gens in the franchise :)
I'm horrified of the inevitable remakes though
Gen 5 gave the protagonists girlfriends/boyfriends and ferris wheel dates.
Need we say more?
Another reason Gen 5 was hated that I don't see remembered: the fact that Unova was based off of New York. People were PISSED that the first setting outside of Japan in the main series was the US. I even saw people saying that no it must actually be Hong Kong, not New York. That was some intense copium.
I adored Gen 5. It was the most invested into Pokemon I had been since RBY. I loved that we were blocked from using old 'mons. I loved that the story was actually detailed. And being an American, I loved seeing locations I recognized re-imagined in this low-fantasy/low-scifi setting. But I really think the hate Gen 5 got traumatized Game Freak. The games were on a slow decline since Gen 6 and I gave up when Sword and Shield came out with its half-assed quality.
Man I miss Pokemon.
Werster telling it like it is. Black and White were some of my favorites
Gen 5 were the most hated by far, and it is the best gen by far too.
People called Gen 4 the absolute best of them all, as if it had no issues. I always found that funny, which is why the hate for the remakes didn't surprise me lol. Remakes for Gen 5 scare me, but I'll always have Gothitelle 😉.
I’ve loved Gen 5 since it came out. I was 11 at the time and I really loved Black (despite vanillite freaking the hell outta me…) and I’ve loved Gen 5 since….
Gen 5 is the One Hot Minute of Pokemon. Just like how that album was universally hated simply because John Frusciante wasn’t in it, gen 5 was hated only because they left out the original pokemon until you beat the game. But at least nowadays both of those are getting the love they deserve.
It's basically the Halloween 3: Season of the Witch of the franchise. No Michael? No fun!
"...you know who you were, but it is all your fault why we never get a good pokemon game ever again."
> Pokemon fans complain about not getting something
> Gamefreak listens and gives said thing next gen alongside new gimmicks for newcomers
> Fans bitch about getting what they want.
There is no winning for Gamefreak. Besides actual issues in their games, the fanbase will always complain, regardless of quality.
Why can't we just accept that pokemon is a slow burn type of game that cannot be judged instantly.
I swear, the next 3 gens there will be retrospective video essays that talk about how "underrated" gen 8 is, receiving the same praise as gen 5.
Well, it's been 3 gens since Gen 6 and that gen still isn't getting the same level of praise.
@@oyeh8908 its already starting to. Look up recent gen 6 reviews or retrospectives. The majority consensus right now is that gen 6 never got the chance to prove itself because there was no z game after x and y.
@@Strato_Casterrr9898 That’s been the consensus since Gen 6 ended, it’s not exactly a new take.
@@oyeh8908 no. The consensus when gen 6 ended were these:
1. Mega evolutions were broken but fun;
2. ORAS was the almost-perfect remake;
3. Gen 6 was too easy.
The last point was regurgitated to hell and back, and started the idea that "pokemon games have gotten easier".
Though my observations about recent discussions for gen 6 were definitely not new takes, these were the ideas and opinions of those who did not bash gen 6 as easily and readily as others.
It may not be a new take, but back then, it certainly wasn't popular. Nowadays, it is becoming popular. That being said, it was never the consensus.
@@Strato_Casterrr9898 I think it was popular, just not talked about every much. I bet if you asked people back then, pretty much everyone would agree that Kalos never got to reach its full potential because of the lack of a Z version, and that the lack of Emerald content was one of ORAS' few disappointments.
I never minded Vanilluxe but Garbordor is just awful. The concept itself is fine, like Muk, but the design is not good. That aside, one design doesn't make/break a game.
For me, the problem was the odd mix of sprites/grid when by then every other game had moved on to 3D models. Gen 5 also started a lot of the problems we have nowadays, with endless tutorials and cutscenes and weird, overdesigned characters, and the idea of "Masuda goes on vacation and just bases the region 1:1 on whatever country he went to." As a result, the region is extremely linear, too.
I was there and I liked BW even at launch, and even ended White with the "ice cream" on my team, but man they got a metric ton of shit thrown at them lmao every online forum was a warzone. What a time to be alive.
They hated it because the monster design was donkey shit. It was going downhill for a while now, one step at a time, but unova took a GIANT LEAP towards looking like cartoon mascots instead of creative magical monsters.
That &' how the online metagame was dogshit.
You were REQUIRED to run weather teams, or else you'd be shat on. 10/10 balancing.
My next door neighbor literally dropped the series because he didn't want to play through gen 5 without all the old pokemon. He'll still play the older ones, but nothing past gen 4. I've even tried to get him to play through Black and White 2 first then go through Black and White in a prequel style, but he hasn't done that.
I initially disliked the prospect of playing through a new Gen without any of the older Pokémon. I still think that the core problem of B/W was the fact that you could only obtain non Gen-5 Pokémon after getting the National Dex. People like stuff that they’re familiar with, and Gen 5 had some weak designs (Trubbish, Vanillite, etc.) that elevated the problem. Luckily that was the only real problem the Gen 5 games had, and B2/W2 even addressed it by giving you more options in building your team. They added more routes and access to national Pokémon at the start of the game!
Sure, Gen 5 isn’t flawless. For example, I dislike the fact that most gym leaders only had 3 mons and the Elite 4 was made easier. Some Pokémon didn’t even have a full move set! But the games tried so many new things as well. We had moving sprites, fully 3D environments, a WiFi minigame that didn’t feel tacked on, Hidden Abilities, an easy and a challenge mode, a villainous team that defied all previous standards, a bigger map than ever before and so much more. I still believe Gen 5 was peak Pokémon and we’ve never gotten something better than those games.
Elite 4 was harder in gen 5 than it was in gens 2 and 4.
The "genwunner" phenomenon was so stupid in retrospect. Gen 1 ain't even that good.
Lol yes it is
@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 gen 1 is fine and was a great starting point for the series but it's outdated in pretty much every way.
@@Wingster Only if you're such a Zoomer you can't enjoy any media that's in any way "old" looking.
I enjoyed Black but I was sort of growing out of Pokémon at the time it came out. Going back and replaying it made me realize how good Gen 5 actually was.
Proud to say I was a fan from day 1 of gen 5. Still my favorite gen to this day.
To this day, I'm still dissatisfied with the roster the game had to offer.
The game of its own, great. Pinnacle of aesthetics for the entire series, great animations, seasons were nice for that one time...
But man, the designs just do not agree with me. I don't have any other gen with as many designs that I find just actively unappealing, making scouring routes for pokemon an absolute pain in those games.
Patrat is creepy, Watchog's worse, regional bird gives makes me sad, the monkeys haunt my nightmares, there just wasn't any pokemon to latch onto to continue playing the base games.
I've done them with drayano's hacks, got the great game with wider array of available pokemon, fixed all the problems immediately.
as a side thought... I don't think the pokemon were badly designed... well, not all of them, anyways, but many aimed for "cool" aesthetic over "simple" or "cute", both of which I personally much prefer.
In a comparison, Palpitoad is just an awkward blob, and Mudkip or Wooper are huggable friends. I can see why someone would like Palpitoad, but I just am not that kind of person.
Krookodile or Zoroark are absolutely "cool" if you're into that kind of design, but to me they just come off as... unappealing.
I do love Whimsicott, one mon in the entire Unova roster that I genuinely adore
If there's one thing to genuinely trash gen 5's designs for it absolutely is the early game trashmons. They feel uninspired and unneeded in a bracket of mons already prone to uninspired and unneeded designs. The rodent and bird of the region are forgettable and kind of ugly, and the elemental monkey genuinely feel like type chart filler and are just a disgrace design-wise. Purrloin is like a less charming Skitty, Munna is too abstract. The only super early mon I like in those games is Lillipup.
I actually like a lot of designs later into the game, but the early and common roster has so, so many misses. The cool designs are almost all at least slightly out of the way, and it leads to a terrible impression overall.
Having only been in 4th or 5th grade I remember hearing a lot about how gen 5 was bad from friends but I distinctly remember enjoying it when I actually played it.
Pokemon Black was the first Pokemon game I ever owned, even though I'd been obsessed with Pokemon since I was a toddler. To this day, Gen 5 is still my favorite generation of Pokemon, and no game (not just Pokemon, but no game ever) has ever come close to the experience of my first playthrough of Black.
Gen 5 was the first and last game I was hyped about. There is a good reason why it was the last game I was ever able to look forward to before I played it.
Bw had the best battle animations/setup with gifs and animated sprites, had some amazing new designs such as cofagrigus, had THE best story in any Pokémon by a LONGSHOT, new characters that were written super in depth, amazing settings like the castle and the desert and the big city, you still had puzzle gyms. Post game was awesome. It’s ducking tragic that every game in the series went downhill after this gen
Black and White 2 was where it was at. Absolutely ICONIC.