Heist Is A Busted Mechanic? | Timeless
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- čas přidán 20. 05. 2024
- MTGArena just got a new mechanic called Heist and it's pretty damn powerful in Timeless!
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If you’re empty handed when you cast lootmonger you still get the heist, you several times casted it and discarded a land that you could have played for free.
Yep ❤ always love when "discard one draw one" is stated 😂
The main problem with Heist in paper, is that for it to work you're forcing your opponent to shuffle their deck, twice. You're looking at three random nonland cards. For that to work, the top and bottom of the library cannot be known to either player, so it needs to be shuffled both before and after you look at three cards, which is a lot of faffing about for everyone involved - especially if it's a commander game.
There's a secondary problem with how it's done in game - it's not specifying that your opponent sees your options nor what you chose. This makes it difficult to enforce the "nonland" portion, so it'd need to be changed to something where you reveal cards from the top of the chosen library until three nonland cards have been revealed, and you then pick from between those three. But again, you need to shuffle before and after revealing and choosing.
It's a mechanic that "just works" digitally. Stickers tried to copy some of those mechanics (intensity, "perpetually" and specialize are basically what stickers tries to be ) and people appear to hate them like crazy. But in paper it's difficult to work with.
I mean... Why not just make it a fateseal impulse effect? "Look at the top 3 cards of target opponent's library. Exile a card from amongst those. You may cast cards exiled this way and use any color of mana to cast those cards. Put all cards not chosen this way on the bottom in a random order." It's not technically 1 for 1 but it's a helluva lot more balanced than just never missing and achieves the same core mechanic. Especially since we already have these effects around.
You make some good points about the double shuffle in paper, and an additional complication is that the Arena implementation of heist does not appear to shuffle at all. I did some heisting against Sparky (Arena's bot for the uninitiated) by exchanging control of Conspicuous Snoop, which allowed me to see the top of Sparky's library at all times, and the top of the deck doesn't change after a heist, expect on one occasion where I was able to heist the top card.
@@jeffbezos4352 it's the same reason why I really like "seek" as a mechanic, but it can only function in arena. Both don't shuffle the library, so you can put stuff 2 or 3 cards deep and not have to worry about accidentally shuffling it if you wanted it still.
@@colyrne Yeah, it makes sense from a video game perspective but it's a bit confusing now that we're intertwining effects that shuffle with those that don't.
It's not that the mechanic literally could not function as written that is the problem, but that you could change the mechanic very slightly and it would be fine.
whenever they eventually do a return to thunder junction i would love to see heist printed on paper. such a cool mechanic
at 7:30 you could have countered the Prime Time Since they used the cavern to activate Castle Garenbrig, it didn't grant the "cannot be countered" part.
crim always makes mistakes in almost every game he plays, its part of the experience Lmao
Funny aspect of heist is that in mirror matches opp playing on budget decks beat me because I keep heisting gabage commons, and they get my grenzos and getaway
This is funny because it seems like the problem with heist is, what if your opponent has bad cards?
@@user-zw8wq9zi9tSince you get to choose from 3 non-land cards, it’s unlikely to repeatedly heist bad cards. Consistency is what makes heist so effective. You almost always get something that can be useful.
The exception is that their entire deck is trash, but then you will just win by your creatures repeatedly getting counters and smashing your opponent for 20 damage or bleeding them for 2 life at a time without much resistance.
My first ever pre release was m10 and I pulled a Primeval Titan and Garruk, forever setting my love cor Green.
It makes me extremely happy Prime Time is still used in some of magics most powerful and popular formats
2 weeks ago when I built my heist deck it was a lot of fun.
I guess I can expect to see this deck everywhere now.
Haven't played Arena at all in ages and I was hoping to hear something about what it did and all I heard was "it steals from the opponent's deck" but that doesn't say very much (I was expecting a Bribery effect). I had to look it up elsewhere to find out what it does:
Heist (Look at three random nonland cards from target opponent's library. Exile one of them face down. You may cast that card for as long as it remains exiled, and you may spend mana as though it were mana of any type to cast that spell.)
If I hadn't done that I'd have no clue how you got the cards you did because it wasn't explained well in the video AT ALL.
The AZN Avenger, I love your content. I have seen a few of your vids and love the vibe, I really enjoyed this one. You asked some questions during the vid and I thought I would answer some and give you some something to consider help you grow.
(Heist exiles face down so only you get to see it.) "You could have countered that Prime time in your first game." The auto-tapper isn't always the brightest, that is why I let every opportunity play out and mistakes become visible. If you look closely at the lands that tapped, Cavern was one of the four to activate Castle (time stamp 7:30). This has happened to me a couple of times on arena I had to look closely at the card but just like Delighted Halfling you must choose a color. You also asked if Gaea's blessing shuffled into your deck or theirs. (that only happens if milled).
I am confused because (time stamp 8:37) you cast it and your thought processed changed to what graveyard it went to. and heist is do-able. The reason I believe it's hard for paper magic. isn't the amount of shuffling, but how I imagine it is like doing a dealers spread. and whoever casts the spell selects three from the spread and choose one of those. The issue with that is people like to go wide and don't really police their board. It would cause a lot of problems especially the players with sleight of hand talents.
Why do Crim's games never feel like they are actually playing into his theme? I think the first game felt "heisting" centric, but in the rest it was just an afterthought.
I love Crim's "wait but I had more!"
Well, I haven't taken my shower yet today. I'm ready for the *ABSOLUTE FILTH* of heist from a control player. Might need a stainless steel scrubber from the kitchen though...
Drannith magistrate came in clutch for heist😂😂 people thought they were getting easy wins
Why did Crim spend bolts on 1/1s int he second game instead of holding them to double bolt a titan?
Probably to stop a natural order
I've been playing Juggle in bo1 timeless and this seems like the safer version of that deck. If I have the wildcards I might try this too.
You can just play Juggle in this deck. In fact it combos perfectly, since they'll just get cards that steal cards from your deck, which just...steal more cards from your deck. So all your cards work while all their cards don't.
@@metalhev3989 My juggle deck is full of garbage though. I don't want to give them good cards. 😄
@@Dikarika you don't give them good cards, you play heist cards. They'll get heist cards with juggle, which just steal more heist cards from your deck and don't actually do anything.
@@metalhev3989 I don't know. They get Thoughtsieze and Drown and counterspells from this deck. From my normal juggle deck they get arcane signet and one with nothing. 🙃
*discards the bowmaster* - - - - > Whatever! 😑
I just want more steal cards printed in Pioneer man 😭
Can you not use heist to cheat out Tibalt?
You still have to pay for the card that you steal from them, so it doesn't cheat it out. If you have Grenzo or something that reduces the price like it does, then yes you would be able to.
Yes. It is
One mana draw one non land card that can be cast with colorless mana. Who could have foreseen this being broken.
for me its the mana cost that makes this so broken..
I hate playing against heist and will just nope out of playing against it.
Same. I refuse to play it myself and I refuse to play against it. The minute an opponent does Heist, buh-bye, I'm out of there.
Does anyone happen to know whether heist shuffles the opponent's library? You would think so intuitively, but nothing in the (very limited) rules text says it necessarily does or has to.
It does not.
What makes heist so strong? Isnt it just a random theft that cant hit lands? Thats no different from new etali type of effect, isnt it?
It's etali, but you get to anticipate with what you get. It's also stapled exceptionally cheap to cards, a 1 mana anticipate your opponent is busted
Not sure if heist itself is super strong, but Grave Expectations provides great card selection and comes with additional versatility at just one mana.
Etali is cast 2 random cards for free, heist is you choose between 3 cards and still have to pay (but any color).
Imo heist is stronger because there's no chance of a whiff. Even if your options are 3 counterspells you can just keep them for later
Etali ifrom the top of the deck and impulsive, also costs 7 mana. Heist cards can be cast turn 1, 2, 3 and you get to see three cards from anywhere from the library and keep one of them to cast at your leisure.
@zztzgza the anywhere doesn't really matter, grabbing random slots and grabbing off the top are only different if the opponent manipulates their top decks. And there's way cheaper theft than Etali, like Siphon Insight, I was just using new etali bc she doesn't hit lands. It's good, sure, but it doesn't seem super broken
I will only try brawl when they make a non alchemy cards format
Gah. That's “impetUous.” Reading the word explains the word.
(Okay yeah, that's not always true of English spelling but it's true in this case.)
My only issues with alchemy is
1: It's in anything other then alchemy and timeless
2: It doesn't have its own brawl que
3: Rebalancing/Same art different card.
4: Most are boring cards with a bit of text to "Alchemize them" because of draft.
it is fully busted, you can't play midrange (my style) - they just take the answers from your deck to your threats and take your bombs lol ;'_)
The more wotc make these stupid busted mechanic, the more I want a non alchemy brawl format...
Most alchemy cards don't even see plays outside of alchemy.
Tell me about it… SO annoying that can’t play brawl without conjured cards and now f-ing heist 🙄
@@rodrigodepaula4198 that's not the issue, most card printed never see play to begin with. I dislike alchemy because it breaks the rule of magic, especially in the brawl setting.
You don't take cards from outside the game and add it to your deck in commander, but not alchemy. You conjure cards and suddenly you are playing 105 cards deck in commander.
You play a 2 color deck? Not if you have a key to the archive, hey look, I'm playing 5 color spells in my 2 color deck...
Alchemy to me is just a big " f the rules"
@@KL-ie3dj genuine question because i don’t mind heist so much: is it really that different than “exile cards from the top of target opponents library until you reveal 3 nonland cards. Choose one of them and shuffle the rest into that players library. You may cast it for as long as it remains exiled and spend mana blah blah”. Obviously it’s slightly different but it’s not too different from paper (unlike conjuring or perpetual effects).
@@o8240000 its almost like breaking the rules of the game in a way thats impossible in paper is the whole point of the format! Who would have thought!
I still don't see how it's busted? Like it seems fun but it's only as good as your opponent's deck. The guaranteed non-land, is what is most powerful.
Heist is the most fucked up idea ever so far. Im sure that devs sit in a room for hours and think : how we can fuck up this game even more...hmmm think ...think...
Heist has ruined Alchemy.
Heist is just too powerful. The opponent's win strategy is basically to steal your winning cards. Why not build a winning deck instead? I have played against very powerful decks and made valiant efforts and lost or won. Some decks were almost mirrors to my decks and it was so much fun. But Heist makes things too unbalanced for the opponent. I concede now whenever I see Heist, even if I'm winning. I refuse to play Heist myself and I refuse to play against Heist.
Alchemy cards? I'm good
Delve is bugged. It’s supposed to work from any zone, even Exile
It actually worked for him, but the bug was that it didn't light up to let him know he could cast it with delve.
2:12 : It's because you're not pretentious
I really dislike this mechanic. I thought Yugi was broken but I was so wrong, is way more balanced than Magic
Alchemy cards are so fun, heist makes games so much more interesting
Yeah cool, now if only they'd get the fucking alchemy cards out of historic.
Sorry broski, historic had alchemy cards years before alchemy was released and nobody cared. Get down from the clownwagon.
@@metalhev3989 historic had alchemy cards.. years before alchemy was released.
The fuck are you talking about? No it didn't. Before alchemy cards existed.. no one had alchemy cards. Because, get this, Alchemy cards didn't exist yet.
Now, granted some cards have been altered on Arena, and were given the alchemy sign to represent how they were changed, but that was only after they changed.. and only AFTER alchemy was a thing.
Anywho, Sorry Brospeh, but alchemy did not exist before alchemy started to exist. This is just how time works.
As a simple example let me point at Blood Artist. A historic card that is, now, spawned by an alchemy card. Blood Artist is not an alchemy card, you see, but it is in historic because it's a historic card. But because of the card Sanguine Brushstroke, an alchemy card that spawns Blood Artist tokens, now Blood Artist is also tagged as Alchemy.
@@erisdiscordia5429 look up "modern horizons digital-only cards". Alchemy cards before they were called alchemy, with all the mechanics you all love to hate nowdays like conjure, perpetual and spellbooks.
@@erisdiscordia5429 I think they're implying that digital only effects like Perpetual were in historic before Alchemy was an official thing.
@@jk6971 I don't deal in implications I deal in what the text actually says.
First
this deck is actually trash tho, show all games you played with it, try playing 100 games in timeless bo1 queue and remove all the wins you got from opponent just conceding as soon as you heist because they don't want to play against the mechanic AND THEN show your stats
Because of alchemy i legit thought Karagan Warleader had and gave ward IRL.
I dont like alchemy
Alchemy cards are BS!
Dang no views in 54 seconds bro fell off
Heist is incredibly dumb. Grenzo is such a stupid commander is brawl and in reg historic it just makes it so ur opponent can play your deck but better
Every time an alchemy set drops it just shows that whomever is designing alchemy cards hates mtg with a passion.
Alchemy killed Historic and now it is killing Timeless too. So sick of these lazily designed broken cards.
Theres no way you think the heist mechanic is broken in a format with things like the one ring, bowmasters, reanimate and show and tell.
Crim promoting fake cards... Nope.