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CK3’s Legends of the Dead DLC - Is it Good? (A Rambling Review)
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- čas přidán 16. 08. 2024
- As you know I'm very articulate and professional so you know this video will be to the highest standard and quality of a CZcamsr you know and trust.
In all seriousness, just a little video I put together sharing some of my thoughts on the newest DLC so CK3.
🔗Legends of the Dead link: store.steampow...
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Background Music:
Stronghold OST - Castle Jam
Anno 1602 OST - Entry of the Calvary
Age of Empires I - Track 05 'Rain'
OSRS OST - Dark
What legends are: A gold-powered psy-op/ magic spell that you channel to affect the word with the force of your mana/ personality on completion (e.g. through a one-time world-changing decision such as evangelizing your religion or unlocking a special CB). Cool on their own way, but a complete missed opportunity.
What legends should have been: Some kind of cumulative record of the achievements of your dynasty.
The first thing they got wrong was the naming of the legends. We get 'Great Deed for Karling', which, WTF even is that? It needs to relate directly to an actual deed, such as 'Heinrich slays the White Lion', or 'Heinrich and the Battle of Naples'. Likewise, 'The Pious Life of [Protagonist]' should be more like '[Protagonist], Chosen of God', or something, to more directly capture what the legend is supposed to say.
The second was what we get seeds for. Some things are too easy (building a shrine... seriously, that's what, 300g for a legend seed?), and many things that should give seeds don't. Examples should be romancing someone far above your rank, winning hard battles, defeating stronger foes, (maybe these give seeds, but I've never received one), and even having a massive win at a tournament (preferably that you didn't host). Taking a province from low development to high development in a short time or banging out a bunch of buildings could give a 'Builder' seed, as people celebrate how you brought wealth and civilization to their lands/ the lands of the previously savage barbarians.
The third was that legends disappear at all; they should collect into a dynasty chronicle, and if you read back through the legend names it should tell your dynasty's story.
The fourth was that legendary buildings are weaker than normal buildings. I mean... wuh? At least make them upgradable, maybe by finishing more legends. There must be a way to make them into a mechanic that favors tall play.
I would also add that legends *could* have been a powerful way for smaller characters to make a large splash on the world. If the seeds were related to how hard the deeds were to achieve (such as victories against stronger enemies, or romancing higher ranked targets), the legends these small players spawned would make small play more interesting and viable. The unfortunate reality is that the bigger you get, the more seeds you will end up with since you just have more wealth and power with which to say build a million shrines, or become a Paragon of Virtue within a couple of years of taking over the empire. It should be much harder for emperors to even get seeds, since everything they do is already supposed to be semi-legendary, which kind of makes it ordinary (for them). The other problem is that the legends are powered with gold, not the quality of the seed, which means that you can only take full advantage of them if you are already winning, and it becomes a 'win more' feature, something the game definitely needs less of, not more.
Overall, I love plagues and hate legends. Really didn't think that was how I was going to fall on this expansion.
I couldn't have said any of this better myself. 100% agree with all points
You exactly said what i wanted to say, i was very excited about the legends and not about the plagues but in the end it turned out the other way
What's so exciting about the plagues though? I only bought the DLC yesterday but it kinda seems the exact same as CK2 which I used to play half a decade ago...
I've not tried legends yet. I already knew they only last a couple of decades so it seems completely pointless. It's not worth investing 300 gold in, especially early on in the game. A legend should pass down the ages, not fizzle out after 20 years. Why even call them legends? They're more like alehouse gossip.
My main complaint is the Legends disappear after 20 or so years, which makes me not want to spend the time and money building one up. I think the DLC is great but I would love to see them add an archive at the very minimum so you can look back on past legends, even if it is just ones from your dynasty. Modder's are gonna go crazy with the Legends too, can't wait to play Elder Kings 2 when they mess with it.
I think this was a bug. They did a patch today.
I feel like this DLC will get a lot more improvements once the modding community steps in especially the Lord of the Rings mod Developers they're going to have some fun with this
I feel this way as well. It feels like a tool. A framework to build on. And honestly I like it even on its own
AGOT will benefit from the RP legends brings.
It shouldn’t have to be that way; the DLC was yet again underwhelming.
This is exactly what I'm annoyed with. It feels like Paradox releases new DLCs that just add a new framework for modders to work with. It's nice but the DLC must stand on it's own, and the legends part fails miserably. If no mods use the system it will just be forgotten. @@Moomoo254
I feel like they add more "good stuff" with free updates than dlc brings.
Which I approve much more of than the old Paradox Model of "making the game nearly unplayable without DLC". Now you get some more stuff, maybe a deeper system and support the game. I don't look fondly at what CK2 locked behind DLC. But that was the style of the time, EU4 made the change in real time as it is ancient.
Eh I don’t mind the community getting a sample of the DLC by free update. If you don’t want to buy the full thing at least everyone gets some benefit
the free update added everything i need lol, i love an opportunity to save money
DLC are mainly meant to be flavor packs, literally said (atleast indirectly) by the Ck3 dev team.
That sums up CK3.
What would make the legends work better for me is if you could also spread "negative legends" e.g. rumors. That was a major thing historically and a way you could undermine someone's pedigree and legitimacy. It's a much more immersive way to "fabricate hooks".
Wait. Am I crazy or didn’t they say this was going to be a thing? I only just realized it’s not.
@@Soul_Tomato I have no idea. I think it would be cool, though.
The Legends could really use some work, it feels weird to complete a legend and everyone just forgets about it pretty quickly (I would much rather they be like bloodlines in CK2, nerfed a bit but sticking around a lot longer). The whole spreading of a legend is super expensive as well, you would think that the other people using your legend would be paying you for the story or something but the bigger it gets the more it costs. You can get a good book from it sure (very expensive though) but it's a book that's already competing with your limited artifact space. They should give us a way to expand how many artifacts we can hold otherwise health spam books are probably still better in the long run. What does extra stat bonuses do for you if your perfectly sculpted ruler is dying at 50? The cleared buildings are cool although their effects are honestly so minimal you can just forget about it (granted I play the earliest start date, late game they can be powerful for just stacking more bonuses). Overall Legends just felt like "Oh I need Legitimacy so I'll complete this Legend real quick and never touch either mechanic again".
As far as your critique about no legends in the start, the AI does start off with some but they are not promoted yet. For example, the petty King of Wessex starts off with FIVE! he could do at the start. They just need to be prestige level 3 to start them if I recall. They could fix that by lowering the requirements (for AI). Though I do agree somewhat that the world does not feel fleshed out with legends. The Bavandids don't even have a legend for being Sassanid descendants and we JUST had an Iran dlc... 🤦♂
Funerals are great, though an optional pop up event when you can host one would be nice. Sometimes I autopilot and blow right through a dead relative.
The diseases spreading was honestly the most dreaded aspect of the dlc to me but ended up being pretty much the best part of the whole thing. Even at a base level I can cope and tell myself that it's increasing game performance by killing off a bunch of useless courtiers. Though it NEEDS a way to tell physicians to auto handle disease outbreaks because it can get extremely spammy once you have more than a duchy under your belt.
A Rambling Rant to your Rambling Review
A well articulated ramble. better than my own to be sure.
I still haven’t tried LotD even though I bought Chapter 3, and the main reason is that I’m waiting to see how the mods will integrate it, because the Legends mechanic is perfect for something like EK2, AGOT or LotR. I forgot when was the last time I played vanilla 😂
Honestly I have the same problem lol
Yeah agree, modders are going to make legends what they should be I hope
I'm also keen to see what the POD team do with the Plagues and Legends as well
For context I am still on my first new run if the DLC. I started in Kerch in 1066 and created a Greco-Steppe hybrid that rules Khazaria which I renamed the Crimean Khaganate. I only expanded into the Steppe so it’s a really hard start. It lost the empire to the Mongols because I wasn’t strong enough and could not make allies strong enough to fight him. I then submitted, reclaimed my land which the khan was happy to do since I held the kingdom titles and upon the empire shattering after almost 80 years I became a vassal under the Golden Horde and when that shattered pretty quickly I became the Khan of the Golden Horde. The Black Death happened when the conqueror of the Golden Horde was in his 70s, he died to it but basically no one else did except his successor because I did the stupid healing palm event and caught it AS IT WAS GOING AWAY. A bunch of rebellions happened but none could succeed even against the child ruler that took over. It’s about 1350 right now.
I agree with the idea that Legends aren’t as good as Plagues on the whole, it’s obscenely disappointing how quickly they become rote and generic ones being the only ones left after the first century aside from decisions is also extremely disappointing. That being said it’s another thing to do, it’s another thing to spend money on, and the major decisions you get from making Mythical Legends are amazing not to mention getting custom special buildings you can place anywhere that is very cool.
But honestly the sleeper hit of the actually paid content is the funerals. Funerary rites becoming a doctrine with 6 options is so cool and RP wise some of the best opportunities are definitely the Funerals. It’s nice to have such a big de-stressor as well as having options during a funeral like seduction and murder is just wild.
The paid content of plagues is meh in comparison to the overall awesomeness of plagues but paid content also has the Legitimacy intents at events, a bunch of new model stuff, the dynasty legacies of which Legends is way better than Legitimacy, and cool events for plagues.
The Black Death was underwhelming, I was fighting wars before and during the entire thing and never went negative in cash despite the income hit, only one ruler died to it and to be clear I only had a level 4 hospice and level 2 Burial Site in my capitol, my other holding only had level 2 and a couple had no hospices (again the economy drain is real and great). I did have 100 plague resist thanks to the tomes and a family very close to strong blood (the baby who still isn’t an adult right now is actually the one who got it). I had vanilla settings so I’ll probably up those in all my future runs, though now that I type this I’m 99% sure I have harm events turned on and none have fired… hmmm…
Overall I do think it’s worth the $20, it’s definitely one of the better DLC if only in part due to the fact that it applicable worldwide and not regionally like the $15 region packs. And above all modding will just make it better.
Excellent write up
thanks for the review. currently across the country so cant play or watch a playthrough, but this gets me excited!
You’re welcome! :)
I'm glad for the long review. I do agree that Plagues are probably the most interesting for the base game for me.
Honestly, I just wish counties could have multiple legends tied to them instead of just one. Giving a legend a time limit on how long a legend affects a county instead of wiping it away immediately after starting a new one would feel so much better.
Could be busted but is more realistic
I noticed that plagues do affect MAA but it's through random events. I had one where i loosed 50% of my Maa Damage or incould have them be way more expensive
Am I the only one that thinks this dlc was mediocre? The legends are very disappointing when compared to how bloodlines worked in ck2, and while I don't particularly have any issues with how plagues were handled they just feel like a repeat of reaper's due. The best part was honestly the ui changes like all the icons they added for court positions. Overall a 5/10 for me, I hope the next dlc is better
A fair assessment I think
A repeat of Reaper's Due is at least putting something back into the game that CK2 had. Now if only they would add nomads and republics...
Nah you're right. I wasted £36 on it. I wish the dev team would work on making the game more challenging and immersive instead of just adding more modifiers and pointless fluff.
Cool video! don't have the dlc so still debating if i wanne get it
I’d say try out the new features and see how you like those before jumping in
I strongly dislike having the Table forced on me (no option to turn it off). IMO it doesn't gel with a mechanical purpose and just adds a jarring transition I randomly bump into. Which also tilts my damn view. Ugh. I want a world map, not "running CK3 in Tabletop Simulator".
Just remove it with a mod lol not that hard
@@mementomori771 That mod does not exist. Either way they should just have an Off setting. It's especially bad on my laptop's smaller screen.
I'm a new CK player, so i'm just trying to get into this game and don't have any dlc yet.
So they've added legitimacy, thing that gives you debuffs if you don't have enough of it. There are very few ways to increase it in vanilla.
They've also added plagues (thing that tanks your legitimacy) for free but to get the ways to increase legitimacy you need to buy dlcs.
So you are telling me that just for being a new player and not wanting to purchase dlcs i'm getting an almost permanent debuffs? Nice one Paradox, thanks a lot. That's a free to play level of scummy behavior.
It feels very lackluster and just not worth interacting with.
The newly added legitimacy mechanic has many restrictions on seemingly stupid things.
Someone rebelled and tried to breakaway? Tried to usurp you? Yeah you can only take one title because if you take more you’ll lose a hundred legitimacy
Oh and Muslims can’t marry lowborns? Even as secondary spouses it will RUIN your legitmacy.
But real rulers often “bought” their wives from say the Caucasus for example (in Egypt and Syria at least)
The legitimacy system is a bit odd but I do like the concept. However if you watched my Scotland legend video I struggled with it for much of it.
I think increasing the size of the box where we can actually see the game would be great its hard to read some text in game but that might just be me
Like a UI increase?
@@Soul_Tomato that would work
@@TheRealKiRBEY You can change the GUI scale in the settings, but I am not sure if that increases the size of text boxes, but there are some mods that increase text size if you can use the Steam workshop
What i actually meant was the video where he is playing ck3 that what i think should be bigger. I already know how to increase the HUD in my own CK3 game
@@TheRealKiRBEY oh okay I see what you mean 😂 I agree with you on that to be honest
I think the only thing I'll miss by not buying this DLC are the funeral activities. Legends sound really lame and most of the plague feature is in the free patch, only Black Death-related vibes are behind the paywall. Plus legitimacy is in the free patch as well. So this DLC is a pretty good thing for people who don't buy it since Paradox actually gave the best parts to everyone. Might get it when it goes for $12 or $13 on sale but until then I think I'll be fine waiting for Road to Power which sounds a lot more meaty.
A totally fair take
I vastly prefer this to flavor packs, modding potential is all I really care about, but even otherwise it feels like a more efficient use of resources than a flavor pack.
I like the core expansion model so far. I did love the flavor packs too though. But it seems they’re going to mix them into major expansions now so we shall see.
Yeah as you pointed out there aren't much legends in the middle east or Andalusia or even some other parts of Europe that isn't north European or england, i was really excited for the idea of this dlc and thought it would be like a chronicle of your great deeds your dynasty did, even when doing some stuff like conquering half of the world or completing a special decision you don't gain any new legend seeds or you gain the very generic "the great deed of ....."
The chronicle for legends is perfect for me I'll probably always have a legend working
"The black plague was an endgame crisis" isnt a take i was prepared for when i woke up this morning.
I mean that’s what it is no?
rocking the Stronghold music...I can respect that
I respect your recognition
Love the stronghold music in the background
A man of culture I see
Ah a fellow Pentiment fan, good to see it
Game was under rated for sure
I think it's some cool additions but not something you should pay for or at least not something you should have to pay alot for
Plus... I agree that the plagues are the best part of the dlc which is funny because the plagues are the thing you get for free whilst you have to pay for legends (and also for funerals)
Yeah honestly if you just want plagues then I share the sentiment to skip it
Good, grounded and objective review! I very much agree with your opinion on this dlc.
Thank you!
It is a bummer there's no legends at the start of the game, I still wish they had just brought back bloodlines again
Evidently there are TECHNICALLY but you need the prestige to activate them. But again that feels weird
Bloodlines in ck2 were really cool, I wish they had included them in ck3
I am hoping T&T goes on sale for the steam spring sale. I am "behind" in DLC. I think I'll settle for the free update here and buy the Byzantine DLC if it's amazing, because I love the Byzantines. For what they're charging a DLC has to be incredible for me.
I really hope the Byzantine DLC is a 10/10
It's currently on sale fyi
Honestly im suprised at how the legends aspect actually played out from everything i was reading i thought these would be much like bloodlines a bunch of great game lasting storys that bloom and then ebb and flow with the dynasties future descendents getting events about them or being chastised for failing to live up to them but instead there incredibly underwhelming and an honestly forgetanle mechanic
As a casual ck3 player i rather enjoyed it a strat i used was playing as britanny bending the knee for low taxes adn becoming Stewart and getting enough money to make the ancestral claim legend which meant in a lifetime i was able to break off found the kingdom of britanny and make the empire title along with getting the saint title I very much enjoyed it plagues is good makes the big bad empires a lil weaker so u can smash them with an allience if your really inexpirened or casual like me a personal crtique is the funerals i thinbk their zhould be two or three types grand funerals or legendery funerals and maybe not have thejm set in cyrpt maybe in a church yk to dull and dark addtioanlly if u max out your plague resitance in your capital when the black death comes ur capital usually wont catch it which means u dont suffer from the Devoplment reduction which means as a player u can come out heaps HEAPS stronger than the ai atleast thats what i found
It's me or now pdx's DLC are having less and content with free updates giving more and more?
This one was def the best free one I think. The more I play the less I care about legends but I love the plague system.
the fact there isn’t a mini-crisis around the romanticization of consumption/tuberculosis (which WAS a legitimate thing) hurts. It’d be cool if there was an event that could trigger where people from a certain kingdom or culture saw it as attractive and tried to get it (maybe a poet is to blame for it all, too)
That is weird I agree
For now T&T remains the only must buy
Honestly Northern Lords is a must to me
Why would you make the screen smaller to see? Just fullscreen it dude.
I will be honest with you, it's kind of mid for me. Probably around 6/10. I just hope they are not going to mess up unlanded gameplay.
I lean closer to a 7/10 than an 8 (which I said at the end of the video). I like Plagues a bit so it elevates it for me. But legends I could have probably lived without in retrospect.
I bought the DLC yesterday and to say I'm disappointed would be an understatement. I've played a full lifetime and so far barely anything is different. There was a couple of minor disease outbreaks but I ignored them and it was fine. I've not created a legend yet because I've already read that they disappear after a couple of decades so it seems pointless. Not much of a legend if everybody forgets after 1 generation is it?
Yeah after having time with it for a few months I don’t care much for the legends but I like the plagues for the RNG
I play this on console so ill give you my review on it in 3 years
I look forward to it - if I’m still here haha
I subbed
🫡
Legends not only released with a bug that made them disappear 20 years after completion, but with one that makes a random ruler of you dynasty inherit the legend of your antecessor, so you need to finish the legend in one life time or have a member of you dynasty steal the rewards from you. This only happens late game so not many people know about this.
I am 100% sure that this DLC was not tested before release, and being honest, paradox deserves the hate and bad reviews for this DLC.
I like the legends more than diseases. 😅 and cba about content outside of Europe. Rarely ever plays outside anyways and no Thats not because of “not enough content outside of Europe”
yes, its not called crusader rajas after all
I wish Legends were fleshed out more. The chronicle text for what your guy did is so fucking boring and generic. I'd also love more interactivity to it. Playing as Alfred and seeing Norse Pagans spread my legend for no reason feels so weird, and it having basically no impact on the game sucks. I love the idea but it feels like a rough draft of something great.
Does anyone know when its coming to ps/xbox?
Probably a while from now
@@Soul_Tomato yeah i just got the game on ps and ive been playing as Finland
Is the dlc coming to consoles?
Consoles don’t even have chapter 2 yet
I think it was meh, the first thing I did when it came out is get a mod. Probably not a good indication of the quality. But that's just me.
What mod did you get?
The ironic fact that the Free Updates adds more to the DLC than the DLC itself.
Nothing wrong with free stuff
That is by design. The DLC funds the update.
I can't complain
:)
I'm gonna be honest, Legends of the Dead make me bored like hell... i stopped playing ck for now.. It's just.. when you at 984, started with little brittany and already took 90% of all the catholics + vikings annnd the byzantin empire...
I dare you to tell me ckIII isn't a huge mess now..
I don’t think it’s a mess but I agree legends wasn’t amazing by any means.
@@Soul_Tomato having the possibility to conquer evry country with that legend bonus... I'm pretty sure nobody asked for that kind of cheat code indeed..
Can say 2 months later… it STINKS! Legends is very uninspired and mostly generic but lord the plaques are AWFUL.
2 months later and yeah my opinion is also definitely more in the “it’s not great” category.
tldr;
it's mid
Don't put rambling in the title. I quit this video twice already, because i feel like you wasting my time. And the video is just 11 m.
Nah, I’m gonna do what I want on my own channel random internet person.
Hahahahaha. The entitlement.😂
My brother in Christ, you must have the weakest mind ever if suggestion works that well on you.
Jeepers!
What exactly are you mad about?