I think the problem with your suggested solution to mined out situation is that zerg isn't the only player with enough money to get rare units, not to mention the insanely long energy build time for spawn broodling. Feedback outranges and 1 shots queens, and corsair could also be available. Several hotkeys of overlords (12-16) with dark swarm dropped right on top of the base you're trying to kill is probably the best. I don't know if you're going to get an efficient trade, but the value is in removing the base not the cost for cost efficiency of the trade.
I understand but protoss has no way of scouting that zerg is building queens at this point. The first attack should be a complete surprise and there should be no counter prepped by protoss. Queens remove all templar and guardians sail in right after. I have seen drop play get utterly smashed by reaver templar cannon many times. Even dropping ultra in the mix doesn't work well
@@SaiyanKCM Yeah, Zerg has a big problem in these kinds of scenarios and I'm stumped on it too. I think the overlord strat is how things are typically done right now, but yeah it sucks. I'd love to see someone high level work on your suggestion, it might work if you have the element of surprise like you said.
Cool thing about split map PvZ and ZvP is that it mostly comes down to micro and who can use the spells the best. Plauge and crackling can kill so much but then also reaver storm zealot can too. I'm kinda going back n forth on who actually has advantage split map. a few plagues on groups of zealots can flip the math so fast.
FYI SaiyanKCM, your videos are somehow not tagged as Gaming and Starcraft. That seems like a big missed opportunity that is probably costing you a lot of views. I highly recommend copying the metadata of bigger Starcraft CZcams channels (like Falcon Paladin, who adds the tags "#FalconPaladin #StarCraftRemastered #BroodWar" to each of his video descriptions) to ensure people actually have a chance to see your content. The CZcams algorithm cannot promote your stuff if it doesn't know what it is.
Protoss as a race might be the best it's ever been right now, even without maps like Sin Chyupung Ryeong and Katrina in the pool. They figured out what works against terrans (kill the tanks until they can't build any more) and against zerg (amass dragoons and finish the rest with magic damage). It just sucks that the race itself isn't good enough to win tournaments.
Maybe that's not the race, but maps are not good for protoss? With maps like Pathfinder, Third World, Transistor and Gladiator where the 3rd base is easily accessible and defendable toss players managed to win asl or osl
@@igorkamerzan Oh the current maps are pretty good for protoss, they're just not outright busted. The speed bumps, the free gas at every third, the easy wall-ins with the eggs are all great for protoss, but Katrina and SCR were made by Kespa specifically as busted maps to shake up the meta.
@@alexfriedman2152 Yeah I've been following BW since 2008 and while it sounded really cool to say that BW was a balanced game where the races are kept in check by the maps that's not true at all. There is a best race, a medium race, and a bad race and they've always been the same.
@@reekhadol That being said I think PvT is close enough to be playable. I don't think PvZ is even playable once you get to a certain level. And then ofc mirrir match ups are whack but at least they are balanced. I have the most fu playing PvT and TvP.
bisu got old. young bisu would have gotten that double hatchery kill at 7:00 and it would have been gg. dont know why he ran from that. every fight after that bisu was running for no reason, his units always seemed to be out of position, heck even guardians worked for zerg with two guardians killing half a dozen archons simply because bisu wasnt paying attention. storms were badly placed or misused, makes me think maybe he had lag
I learned that from my friend about queen snipe for templar. Protoss can keep templar in shuttle against queens. Apm high player can handle this with shuttle stortm. :) What you think ?
It's true but the protoss has no way of scouting that you are building queens. When you suddenly fly in and kill all the templar and follow up with guardian he shouldn't have that counter already prepped
@@SaiyanKCM of the trick or why they avoid it? The trick: 1) Hallucinate a high templar 2) Load the real high templar into a shuttle and unload it (so the entity is newer than the hallucination; you can also just build new HT) 3) Use specific control-group commands to merge the real and hallucinated high templar, producing a real archon so half-price archons is the punchline I believe I've seen DeWalt do it in a VOD so at least some high level protoss are aware and willing
I'm a terran fan but i really enjoy the most of those long Z vs P games. Sometimes they are amazing.
I think the problem with your suggested solution to mined out situation is that zerg isn't the only player with enough money to get rare units, not to mention the insanely long energy build time for spawn broodling. Feedback outranges and 1 shots queens, and corsair could also be available. Several hotkeys of overlords (12-16) with dark swarm dropped right on top of the base you're trying to kill is probably the best. I don't know if you're going to get an efficient trade, but the value is in removing the base not the cost for cost efficiency of the trade.
I understand but protoss has no way of scouting that zerg is building queens at this point. The first attack should be a complete surprise and there should be no counter prepped by protoss. Queens remove all templar and guardians sail in right after. I have seen drop play get utterly smashed by reaver templar cannon many times. Even dropping ultra in the mix doesn't work well
@@SaiyanKCM Yeah, Zerg has a big problem in these kinds of scenarios and I'm stumped on it too. I think the overlord strat is how things are typically done right now, but yeah it sucks. I'd love to see someone high level work on your suggestion, it might work if you have the element of surprise like you said.
broodling much better vs terran than toss!
Cool thing about split map PvZ and ZvP is that it mostly comes down to micro and who can use the spells the best. Plauge and crackling can kill so much but then also reaver storm zealot can too. I'm kinda going back n forth on who actually has advantage split map. a few plagues on groups of zealots can flip the math so fast.
ABsolutely incredible game. Thanks!
The last stand of Aiur.
Need to Ensnare Archons👌 & parasite observers.
Beautiful!
I have used queens in really slow lategame zvp. I wish they could broodling reavers and archons
FYI SaiyanKCM, your videos are somehow not tagged as Gaming and Starcraft. That seems like a big missed opportunity that is probably costing you a lot of views. I highly recommend copying the metadata of bigger Starcraft CZcams channels (like Falcon Paladin, who adds the tags "#FalconPaladin #StarCraftRemastered #BroodWar" to each of his video descriptions) to ensure people actually have a chance to see your content. The CZcams algorithm cannot promote your stuff if it doesn't know what it is.
Thanks for the tip! I will try that
Protoss as a race might be the best it's ever been right now, even without maps like Sin Chyupung Ryeong and Katrina in the pool. They figured out what works against terrans (kill the tanks until they can't build any more) and against zerg (amass dragoons and finish the rest with magic damage). It just sucks that the race itself isn't good enough to win tournaments.
I agree... That sht is not balanced though lol. I mean at lower level like B rank it's fine but the higher the skill the lower returns it seems.
Maybe that's not the race, but maps are not good for protoss? With maps like Pathfinder, Third World, Transistor and Gladiator where the 3rd base is easily accessible and defendable toss players managed to win asl or osl
@@igorkamerzan Oh the current maps are pretty good for protoss, they're just not outright busted.
The speed bumps, the free gas at every third, the easy wall-ins with the eggs are all great for protoss, but Katrina and SCR were made by Kespa specifically as busted maps to shake up the meta.
@@alexfriedman2152 Yeah I've been following BW since 2008 and while it sounded really cool to say that BW was a balanced game where the races are kept in check by the maps that's not true at all. There is a best race, a medium race, and a bad race and they've always been the same.
@@reekhadol That being said I think PvT is close enough to be playable. I don't think PvZ is even playable once you get to a certain level. And then ofc mirrir match ups are whack but at least they are balanced. I have the most fu playing PvT and TvP.
bisu got old. young bisu would have gotten that double hatchery kill at 7:00 and it would have been gg. dont know why he ran from that. every fight after that bisu was running for no reason, his units always seemed to be out of position, heck even guardians worked for zerg with two guardians killing half a dozen archons simply because bisu wasnt paying attention. storms were badly placed or misused, makes me think maybe he had lag
I learned that from my friend about queen snipe for templar. Protoss can keep templar in shuttle against queens. Apm high player can handle this with shuttle stortm. :) What you think ?
It's true but the protoss has no way of scouting that you are building queens. When you suddenly fly in and kill all the templar and follow up with guardian he shouldn't have that counter already prepped
Gg
Seems like a perfect game for hallucinated archon trick
I believe it's tournament-legal but maybe top P avoid it because they feel it's cheating?
I'm not aware
@@SaiyanKCM of the trick or why they avoid it?
The trick:
1) Hallucinate a high templar
2) Load the real high templar into a shuttle and unload it (so the entity is newer than the hallucination; you can also just build new HT)
3) Use specific control-group commands to merge the real and hallucinated high templar, producing a real archon
so half-price archons is the punchline
I believe I've seen DeWalt do it in a VOD so at least some high level protoss are aware and willing
No queen
h