Philip Roth and Blake Bailey [CC]
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- čas přidán 29. 04. 2021
- In which I consider two new biographies of Philip Roth as well as the accusations against Blake Bailey.
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Books and Authors Mentioned:
Philip Roth: The Biography by Blake Bailey
Philip Roth: A Counterlife by Ira Nadel
The Unquiet Engli
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Single greatest use of the phrase, "so to speak" in the history of BookTube!
At the time I found your video I was charging my camera to talk about the Blake Bailey issue, but there is no way I am going to cover the topic as well as you.
That is very kind of you, Brian--and I am very eager to hear what you have to say! Will your discussion be in your Hodgepodge tomorrow?
So to speak. (Raises eyebrow.)
Perfect comic timing!
You’ve outdone yourself, Hannah. How utterly important, elegant, and enlightening. 💕
What a tremendously lovely comment, Shawn. Thank you.
This is so excellently prepared. Thorough, detailed, articulate, fair. Thank you. 🤓
Thank you so much, Kim. I'm especially pleased to hear that you think it is fair. What an upsetting story.
@@HannahsBooks I’m so disgusted by it all. So seedy and...criminal.
Good, fair work on this video, Hannah. I especially loved your point that a different biographer might have been better-suited to exploring Roth’s paradoxes. I’m of the view, however, that WW Norton was completely out of line in discontinuing the book. Blake Bailey deserves to have charges brought against him and to have his day in court - but the idea that so exhaustive an undertaking of so major a figure in American letters should be scrubbed owing to accusations about its author’s behavior is ridiculous. By all means: cancel his future contracts. But this work has been finished. It’s on bookstore shelves. This kind of retroactive punishment, especially by a publishing house that knew of the accusations long before the project was complete, is the height of both overstepping bounds and hypocrisy. I’m appalled and enraged by their decision.
Thanks, Jason. I certainly see your point about WW Norton. I suspect they feel guilty about their lack of investigation of the accusation, perhaps. And I would not be shocked to learn that they have access to some information we might not have. I have absolutely no evidence about that--just my speculation. Have you been able to get your hands on a copy?
@@HannahsBooks Yeah, I bought a copy at our local bookstore 90 minutes after I learned of their decision. I was so enraged about the whole thing, it ruined my entire week. I found the Authors Guild statement on Norton’s decision a couple days ago and was pleased to see it was precisely in line with what I’d been screaming into the void for a week.
@@OldBluesChapterandVerse I will go look up the statement. Thanks. (So glad you found a copy. If you hadn't, I would have happily sent you mine.)
An intelligent and nuanced discussion, as always, Hannah. Thank you for sharing this.
I read several of Roth’s books in my twenties, trying to understand why so many regard him as essential. I never discovered what merited the reputation.
My wife was the one who first saw the news about Bailey. Your discussion encapsulated and mirrors ours in so many ways. Thanks again.
Best, Jack
Thank you so much, Jack. Sounds like our families really are on the same page!
I echo what so many people have already commented which is that you have really helped frame up such a compelling discussion about why the Blake book and issue is so troubling. And I will hereafter always credit you for the spot on term “Midcentury Misogyny”. Thank you very much for this video.
Thank you so much for your comment, Sarah. Now the time has come for some less contentious writing, perhaps by and/or about women who are more thoughtful...
How brilliant this is!
I assume you read them both before Bailey got pulled? What did you think?
Thank you so much for this thoughtful video, Hannah! I know the basics of the story but your insights from the Zoom interviews, especially, are fascinating (and horrifying).
It is such an upsetting story. The more I read about it, the more disturbed I get. I just learned that his wife is the sister of one of his former students. She was a junior or senior in high school when he was teaching the younger sister. I don't know if they met later and this was all a wild coinciding, but the chance that there is creepiness involved in this seems possible.
I’ve been waiting for this commentary since seeing your Instagram post. It doesn’t disappoint. I’m sure you’ve now read the two new articles in Slate that only make this situation even more despicable. Many years ago I read Portnoy’s Complaint and Goodbye Columbus and found them amusing and fresh, then years later read The Plot Against America and found it thought-provoking, all the while finding Roth, at best, a childish and underdeveloped person. A good biographer could explain that dissonance.
No -- I haven't yet seen the Slate articles! I absolutely love your final comment; YES! -- *that* is why I love biographies!
Reading the articles now. Painful to read...
Well this fits: "One morning in November, the teacher started crying in front of the whole class, telling his students that kids from fifth and sixth period had written mean stuff about him in their journals." And his wife is the older sister of one of his former students?!
I thought I might catch a couple of minutes of this and then save it for later, but once I started I couldn't stop until the very end. Such a fine, fully realized piece that I could imagine listening to on NPR or any professionally produced podcast. The effort you put into mapping this out really pays off in one of the clearest, most accessible and well argued pair of reviews I have seen here. Thanks Hannah, this was a treat.
Oh, Daniel! I think I am going to frame your comment and read it any time I am feeling the least bit down on myself. Thank you very much.
Thanks for tackling this, Hannah. I’ve been unable to delve into the subject as deeply, because my emotional response keeps raring up like an alarm. Your words elevate the conversation.
I’ve read three of Roth’s books, including PORTNOY’S COMPLAINT, which I also dislike, to put it mildly! On the opposite end of the scale, I think he did pretty well with THE PLOT AGAINST AMERICA. But he still can’t conceive of a story where he doesn’t put himself smack dab in the middle of the narrative.
I still haven't read The Plot Against America but after I get over the experience of these biographies, I am thinking of trying it. Thank you very much for your compliments.
Read Patrimony. Then read Everyman. If you have enough stamina read Sabbath's Theater.
There is a lot more to Roth.
This was fantastic Hannah. Thoughtful and insightful. I seem to remember hearing/reading somewhere that someone else had been working on an “authorised” bio of Roth before Bailey, but that Roth and/or those around him had become, shall we say, ticked off when the biographer started asking the hard questions and the whole thing stalled out. The fact that Bailey had cooperation for the duration would imply that he didn’t even really ‘go there’ with his questioning and research. I wish I could remember where I heard about the bio that wasn’t! 😅
Anyway, great video. 👍
Yep. The previous biographer was the author Ross Miller. A lot of stories have been floating around about why Roth chose Bailey-and one is because Bailey totally backed up Roth with a sexual comment about Ali McGraw. The other reasons are really not better, either.
Truly excellent Hannah! It really does seem like Roth picked a biographer that would confirm our worst notions of his own narcissism and lack of compassion, because he shares those traits with the man himself.... and it IS sad because it could have been, as you excellently pointed out, an enlightening endeavor to dig beneath the layers of self-centeredness to see whether something more interesting and complex is going on there. (which I'm not sure there is). Thank you!!
Thank you so much, Cathie. I've heard that Roth talked with Hermione Lee about writing his bio (did I say that in the video already?). Gosh, would that have been different.
Hannah, I have never liked Philip Roth but could not have said why as thoroughly or as beautifully as you have just done - eloquently, intelligently and with emotional restraint. Stellar!
Thank you so very much, Rachel.
'just an obnoxious man' --even after listening to you, it still works... 🙃😆
Heh heh...
I really appreciated your thoughts on this, Hannah. I was eager to get Bailey’s book because of my love of literary biographies. Then the allegations became public. Unbelievable. I’ll just put that week (or four weeks) of reading toward something else.
Luckily, there are a lot of other literary biographies coming out right now! I am especially excited to get the Barbara Pym bio, published in the UK already but not here in the US yet.
Very thoughtful video. As always. Literary biographies are a favorite sub-genre of mine as well. I think pairs are a perfect way to read them to see what various biographers highlight, etc.
Thanks! Do you have any favorite pairings?
@@HannahsBooks I really loved Hermione Lee’s biography of Virginia Woolf along with Gillian Gill’s “Virginia Woolf: And the Women Who Shaped Her.” Also, Hermione Lee’s biography of Edith Wharton along with Shari Benstock’s “No Gifts from Chance: A biography of Edith Wharton.” I read “Square Haunting” shortly after finishing the Woolf biographies so I count it as a “pairing.” I think you also really liked the book as well if I remember correctly. I’ve added some additional books on the various authors to my TBR as a result but haven’t read them yet. I plan to read some paired biographies on Hannah Arendt later this year as well as Susan Sontag potentially. I am also fascinated by Eleanor Roosevelt, who I will count as an author. I loved Blanche Weisen Cook’s 3-part biography of her. One of my nits with the biography was that it didn’t spend nearly enough time focusing on her work post Franklin Roosevelt years. Although I didn’t read as a pairing, I have recently found “Eleanor: The Alone Years” by Joseph Lash, and plan to read soon. Probably would have been a great pairing with Cook’s series (though they were large books). What are your favorite pairings?
@@StephanieJCohen What a fantastic list! Square Haunting has been at the top of my list since before it was even published, but I still haven't read the whole book. (I got a chance to read a small bit quite early on.) On Hermione Lee: she was friends with Roth, apparently--and she was a serious candidate for becoming his authorized biographer. What a different book that would be!!
@@HannahsBooks Indeed! And I highly recommend Square Haunting whenever you get a chance. It’s fantastic!
Awesome ..we will add+ Square to our TBR. have a bookaholic weekend
Thank you for this thorough and thoughtful discussion. Yikes, the depth of the Bailey situation is more disturbing than what I’d read before watching. I think of anger as largely a derivative emotion arising in reponse to pain or fear, and in that way is a very limited tool of analysis, as it were. It’s fated to yield superficial results . Or to be a bit more crass, it’s a crock of shite. I loved your analysis of the Greene biography
If BookTube had an award series for individual videos, this video would be topping the shortlist in the Biography Review category!
What a very kind comment! Thank you. You are definitely right that anger can be a way of responding when one is actually afraid. I just cry most of the time instead...
Thanks for this video, Hannah. I was so happy to take a break from the end-of-semester grading crunch to hear your thoughts about these two biographies. "What kind of author has that kind of chutzpah?" indeed! 😂 I will be skipping both of these, and I agree with the points your make in your discussion about Norton's decision to cease publication of the Bailey bio.
P.S. I started reading Cynthia Ozick's latest...novella? long short story?... Antiquities today and am finding it delightful.
Salty enough for you? I am so glad you approved of the chutzpah comment. I haven't yet read Ozick's latest, but it is on my library hold shelf! Thanks!
Wow. My drive home flew by listening to this exquisite discussion. Bravo, Hannah!👏
Thank you so much, Alba! The whole story is so upsetting.
I had been anxiously awaiting Blake Bailey’s biography since I first got wind of it approximately 10 months ago. Purchasing the book on its publication date, I dove into the pages. Aware that Roth had given Bailey full access, I had very high expectations. I had read a number of reviews, which were available prior to April 6th. They seemed to fall into two categories, high praise or witheringly scornful. Cynthia Ozick in the New York Times hailed it a “narrative masterwork.” The literary editor of The New Republic ( Laura Marsh ) deemed Bailey’s work a “revenge fantasy” that “ badly backfired.” The divergent opinions only added to my curiosity. Having read the majority of Roth’s works, I was keenly interested in the motivations behind his writings, particularly “ The Plot Against America”, “ The Human Stain” and his masterpiece “ American Pastoral.” Very quickly, I realized that this was not to be that book. Before the allegations came to light, reading Bailey’s biography was uncomfortable. There was a smarminess to the narrative. He attacks Roth’s first wife with a vengeance, sinking to an especially low point in describing a particular part of her anatomy ( attributed to Roth’s depiction). I found myself asking why would he choose to include that particular piece of information, what did it serve ? There were many other instances in the book that caused me to wince. When the news broke about the multiple allegations against Bailey, I thought it ironically sounded like the plot of a Philip Roth book. A famous author hires an esteemed biographer to write his biography, and all hell breaks loose. I find myself trying to come to terms with the fact that Philip Roth, an author I greatly admire was also a very flawed human being, who was simultaneously duped and flattered by Bailey. What am I to make of Roth’s judgement in selecting Bailey ? Did he believe he found a kindred soul ? Eve Crawford Peyton ( one of Bailey’s accusers ) wrote of Bailey in Slate magazine , that both things were true, “ he was a fantastic teacher; he was a sexual predator.” As reported, W.W Norton’s President Julia Reidhead was alerted to the allegations against Mr. Bailey in 2018 by Valentina Rice ( under a pseudonym) via email, which was then forwarded to Bailey, who categorically denied the charges. For the publisher to assume Bailey’s denial alone as due diligence is troublesome, and it is duplicitous in my opinion to now adopt the posture of a conscientious party, the moral arbiter, by halting promotion and publication of the book.
Yes-I definitely talk about some of the issues you mention. Thank you for sharing your take on W.W. Norton. I have been struggling to understand why they made the decisions they did at various points. Your analysis of it makes some sense. I suspect they know more than has been released to the public.
@@HannahsBooks Thank you for responding. I am also pondering Norton’s decision to decision to halt publication of a biography glowingly reviewed by Cynthia Ozick, a writer referred to as a “towering figure”, “ the Athena of America’s literary pantheon” and the “Emily Dickinson of the Bronx.” Is the publisher’s decision an invitation to subject Ms. Ozick’s judgement and credentials to examination ?
@@joniheisenberg6691 The bio has definitely gotten amazing reviews from several major female authors. I don't know how many have spoken up since the Norton decision, but I suspect a few of them might. Should be interesting.
@@HannahsBooks I know Francine Prose who was scheduled to interview Bailey, has voiced that both he and Roth were a perfect match. Her article in The Guardian advises she was made aware of the allegations via email, notifying her that the virtual event with him was cancelled due to “recent developments surrounding Blake Bailey.” Your comments regarding a more sensitive biographer putting Roth’s behavior in context not to support, but to explain is very insightful. Also, Bailey’s inability to extend any compassion to Roth’s first wife ( Maggie Martinson) is particularly jarring. He is intent on portraying her as a Machiavellian character with little exploration of the traumas she experienced in her life.As I was reading the book I kept thinking about Heather Clark’s book on Sylvia Plath, which I felt was an even handed portrayal of Ms. Plath and Ted Hughes.
Not sure if you are aware or had an opportunity to read the article published today in The Virginian-Pilot newspaper by Gary A. Harki. It reveals further details and is an excellent albeit disturbing read.
Ethics of Book Review assignments!! 👏🏽Bringing forth blurred lines I'll be sure never to have imagined before! :D
I think I will put it back on my possibilities list. It has gone on and off...
Thank you for bringing reason and light to such a contentious issue. It leaves one with much to ponder
i was going to make some time to think through how i felt about this and listening to your thoughts has been a big help..thanks for the articulate, calm exploration.
Thank you very much for the compliment. It is definitely a complicated issue and everyone will come to different conclusions.
Cogent and articulate. Very effectively puts Bailey’s biography and the matters surrounding it into perspective.
Thank you very much, Peter.
Okay, I must say I avoided this video until I heard it was an epic rant! I should have known... 💕💕💕 Well done, Hannah!
Ooh, who called it an epic rant? Excellent!
They who shall not be named 😂😂😂 Actually, they called it a roast but I think a roast is messing with someone you actually like, despite the roasting 😊😘
@@RovingReader 🤓
We are catching up on our videos today ! Happy Bookish Weekend Friends
Same to you!
Great video! I loved your reviews, criticism and discussion
Thank you so much, Josh.
Do you know anything about the editor that worked with Bailey?
I don't know about his editor, but that is definitely something I want to look into now. Thanks. Or do you mean the publishing executive? She used to be a vice president at Penguin--but now runs Many Kitchens and has published a cookbook. According to the NYT reviewer whose house she was in, she told Garner (the NYT reviewer) and his wife back in 2015 and asked for them not to report it further.
I’m offering a cynical guess that Bailey’s editor is/was male. Your nuance! Really, Hannah, you should join the foreign service. You could tell someone to go to hell and they’d be eager for the trip!
@@J0zB Oooh--that sounds like it might be a job with better pay than anything I have found so far!
Great video. I have read Roth and like some of his books. I was planning to read Bailey's biography, but after listening to him on the New York Times Book Review podcast, I was so turned off by him that I decided against it. I found him so arrogant.
Thanks, Jorge. I will have to go listen to the podcast, when I get my wits back together!
Philip Roth, one of the greatest American writers in the last one hundred years...
So glad you enjoy his work!
Cant say that I have read Roth, and can't say that I have any desire to. The whole "I have a wife a child that adore me" in that context, is kind of terrifying. I think my time is better spent reading anything else currently on my shelves.
Sounds good to me! I wasted a whole lot of my reading and thinking time on these books and events, sadly, and I want it back.
It's not Roth but... on books in pairs you might enjoy ...The Alice B Toklas Cookbook paired with A Taste of Salt/ Monique Truong. One a recipe laced memoir and one a beautifully realised historical fiction inspired by a few short lines in the first ..I finally read the latter and loved it's sensuous prose ,it's homage to food , flavour and creativity , it's exploration of gender and race identity in the self proclaimed progressiveness of 1920s Paris, the colonial metropolitan centre , and the limits to it ..the joy of fashioning a story set firmly in a famous couple's home without any reference to their famous friends or aspirations is the perfect contrast to hagiography , accusations or lurid gossip ...sounds like you could do with this pair of books to refresh your palate .. to borrow a quote ,it's the decent thing to do ..
Oh perfect, Hester! I did read the ABT Cookbook years many many years ago. This pairing sounds exactly what I need!
I think I'd heard the name Roth before, but was unfamiliar with these accusations. Thank you for explaining, especially the issue of censorship vs good reasons for pulling books from publication. I know little of how publishing works. I liked your term "mid-century misogynists." I don't know who they all are, but I read On The Road, and it felt uncomfortable in parts. I'd imagine he'd have a place in their ranks.
This whole story is complex and sad. Although I didn't like the couple of Roth's I read, many people really do count a few of his novels as masterpieces. Don't avoid him just because of what I said!
“The fact that a man is a poisoner is nothing against his prose..”. Oscar Wilde. Judge the writer/artist(male or female), if you enjoy their work, BY their work. Psychoanalyzing their personal lives is a dicey endeavor, indeed. And certainly not for the feint of heart. 😱🎭🙏
My God how horrible! I'm very ignorant about Roth (I read _Goodbye, Columbus,_ 40 years ago, and forgot it). This is interesting; indeed, so weird it's fascinating . . .
Yup!
Wow, that Karr anecdote. Do you think maybe Karr knew something going into the interview? This is fascinating. I've been following this all but haven't seen any of the interview. I saw an article on Slate about the diaries that Bailey had the students keep to tell their deepest secrets and he would then annotate them with his commentary. What a way to cultivate an unbalanced intimacy (or a false one) to use later. I'm almost tempted to read Bailey's own memoir about his growing up just to see where his mindset was when he wrote it. This will all be a thinly-veiled novel someday and I'll read it. I made a mild rant on my own video today. You did a much more thorough job. I did say I thought they shouldn't have pulled the book, not because of censorship, but to actually expose the whole endeavor. It's a complicated issue.
I wondered exactly that: did Karr know what was coming? Apparently the accusations had been talked about a lot on the back side of the NYT. That slate article is so disturbing. I am looking forward to hearing your take on this and will definitely listen this evening!
such a beautiful channel you have here. l love all aspects of your channel,and am happy to subscribe here.l,m evo form Australia👍❤💓
Thank you!
This was wonderful. You cover everything in such an intelligent, concise, and nuanced way. I'll admit that I really loved some of Roth's novels and thought his writing was like water--clear and almost absent of style, but I did hate Portnoy's Complaint. The topic of separating the artist from the art is so tremendously complex, and I would love to hear you talk more extensively on that subject looking at other artists as well. As my mother would have said about someone like Blake Bailey: what a puke!
Thank you so much, TL. You are very kind. I am fascinated by your comment that he has an "almost absent" style. I still plan to try another Roth at some point--not right away--and have been making a list of possibilities. What do you recommend? Your mother's phrase has gone straight to my lexicon and I will be sharing it with my local pals tomorrow for Zoom happy hour!
@@HannahsBooks I have to admit that I liked Goodbye, Columbus, which I think you said you said you did not, although you never say why. Even so, I read it when I was quite young, so my memory is not distinct. I also liked The Ghost Writer and American Pastoral. I'll also admit that my misogyny meter is probably not as highly tuned as yours, but I'm interested to hear how that does or doesn't fit into your reviews of Roth's other work if you read him again. Good to know Ma's colorful language will Zoom on!
I love Philip Roth's books. My goal is to read all 30+ or so books in his collection before starting this biography. I've read 7 so far. This reading exercise continues.
Wow! Keep me updated on your progress!
@@HannahsBooks I finished 10 so far as of this writing.
Goodbye Columbus
Portnoy's Complaint
Our Gang
The Breast
The Great American Novel
My Life As A Man
Deception
Partrimony
Human Stain
Indignation
@@e.l.s.3048 Which has been your favorite so far?
@@HannahsBooks Deception
Read...
Everyman
The Humbling
Tax Season kept me busy this month. I couldn't read for fun as much in March.
Beautifully nuanced and presented, Hannah, as always.
What you’ve said here is balanced and fair. And although I disagree with your thoughts about Norton’s decision, your point in a comment below, that Norton may know a lot more than is public now, is food for thought.
Thank you for a wonderful video (and a good laugh near the beginning).
Thanks, Gail. I would love to hear more about your ideas on the Norton decision. These are such weird and complicated situations!
You’ve read two of his books, 30 years ago, and now you’re posting on him…. Marvellous to hear your expertise.
If you watched the video, you know it is a discussion of the biography and its fallout, not of Roth. I’m certainly no Roth scholar, but I am a serious reader of author biographies. That of course does not mean that we will agree in our assessments. No need for you waste time here if you find no value.
@@HannahsBooks I have indeed watched the video and am not out of sympathy with some of what you say, but I would suggest that your discussion of Baileys autobiog is foregrounded, foreshadowed , has its tone set by your lack of interest and indeed distaste for the work of its subject. I haven’t read all of Roths work - about a dozen, including all the Zuckerman novels - and an not an unequivocal fan by any means, but find far more value in his best work and hence, perhaps, am more in sympathy with the portrayal Bailey offers. I think some of your criticism of Baileys approach - even in his acknowledgements! - is so out of sympathy with him, his book etc, that I wonder why you felt you had to publish an opinion on it. Bailey describes how Roth himself, who was often brutally frank in offering aesthetic judgements, demurred sometimes from offering opinion on books he felt himself viscerally disconnected from.
Bailey's biography brilliant too
You have a beautiful voice.
Thank you!
"I never think of him, only read two books thirty years ago" says the completely debased recationary that s jumped on the identity politics witch hunt. Couldn't help herself but to attack him on utterly false grounds and join in the book burning I see.
National Treasure. You are a National Treasure.
Oh gracious-you are too kind, but you have also just made my day!
There are no "charges" against Roth. He committed no crimes. He wrote great books. This is a slanderous presentation.
Do I accuse him of crimes?
@@HannahsBooks You say there are "charges" against him. This implies criminal charges. Philip Roth was never charged with crimes. And he was skilled when it came to language. Please don't fling words around carelessly.
@@bjwnashe5589 I did not intend to imply there were ever legal charges against him. Would “accused” be more accurate, in your book?
Who cares about what Blake Bailey did in his personal life? Does it in any way negate his scholarship or writing ability? If he were a plagiarist, then by all means, stop the publication of his book. There were plenty of great artists and writers who were less than morally impeccable, to say the least. This should not detract from the greatness of their work. That's all that matters: the work.
Yes-one of the points is how his perspective dramatically weakened his analysis of Roth.
@@HannahsBooks That's a valid point, but the corrective is not to cancel the publication of his book, but rather to have future biographers/critics make up for Bailey's shortcomings/sightedness by writing other, better biographies and critical works.
@@drakelondon6849 I am not a proponent of “canceling”-and in fact Bailey’s book has been picked up by another press and is absolutely still available. Still, I am sympathetic to the idea that a particular publisher is not obligated to keep a book in print or distribute it. Publishing contracts cover this issue very clearly.
@@HannahsBooks That's true. I'm glad it was picked up by another publisher, and given the controversy surrounding it, it's attracted more publicity than it might've all on its own. All in all, it's a very Rothian situation. I'm sure Roth would've seen the irony. On an unrelated note, you have a very soothing voice.
@@drakelondon6849 Thank you very much for engaging about this issue with me today!