250L at normal pressure is 22g of hydrogen. The typical hydrogen fuel cell vehicle gets about 96km per kg. With your 22g of hydrogen, you'll be able to drive about 2km. The panel appears to be about 2 m^2. For comparison, a 2m^2 solar panel would produce about 2 kwh a day in Belgium. A good EV gets > 6km per kwh, so your solar panel would take you 12 km. This ignores the losses if you want to compress the hydrogen (about 10%) or liquefy it (30%).
And sadly, this is the real killer for hydrogen. If we are going to use wind turbines and solar panels to power our transportation, we will need six to ten times more turbines/panels for a fuel cell based system than a battery system.
@@gavinminion8515 It's funny how the same people who say "we can never have enough renewable energy" are the same ones who keep proposing systems that would require much much more renewables to to even break even. It's like they see the end goal in site and are trying to find a way to move it back over the hill and out of site.
@@VenturaIT Hi, it's not just the storage that is at issue here. It's the efficiency loss. Fuel cell vehicles are less efficient than batteries and that will be very difficult to overcome. That is not to say Hydrogen (or ammonia) will not have a use (possibly in shipping or heavy construction machinery where energy demand is higher) but that it will be difficult to scale it up for private vehicles.
Depends how you use it, if you use it in a voltaic cell fashion then it will only be 5 minutes, however if you use it in a combustion fashion then it will last far longer
@colinmitchell7760 check out Mike Strizki's Hydrogen House Project he runs his house, car, lawn mower, everything on hydrogen from the sun... this is not spam, you are giving out scientifically incorrect info... it's not true that just because there is no proliferation of something doesn't mean it's not true or not viable... everything was not being done before it WAS done.
The hard part with hydrogen is... you need to compress it to high pressure to carry any meaningful amount. To run your car you are going to be filling tanks at 2000-3000psi. That pump is very expensive. Its also somewhat dangerous to be running around with that kind of pressure.
Yes. This video ignores so many technical barriers about "actually" using Hydrogen in the way described. Producing Hydrogen has never been the problem. Simply put, there is no real way to store Hydrogen molecules because, look at the periodic table, it's the first element on that chart for a reason - it is the smallest known atom to exist. So small that other physical barriers do little to properly contain it. The best is a leaky storage tank.
@@canterburyworkshop5631 Link please. Also, how about a run down of how much extra energy it takes to solidify it. It takes 30% of the energy in the hydrogen just to liquefy it.
The energy density of tanks also suck. People love to talk about the energy density per kg of hydrogen, but any commercial tanks you'll find weight 20x the mass of the hydrogen they hold, totally negating the energy density benefit. Also, if you want to compress it, it takes another 10% of the energy that was in the hydrogen, and if you want to liquefy it, it takes 30%, and then you lose it to boil off at a high rate.
Untrained, unequipped homeowners producing and storing hydrogen? What could possibly go wrong with that?? ICEs burning hydrogen? So we will still lose energy to heat losses, still have oil changes, engine repairs . . . . Yes, but in addition, we will have spectacular CZcams content with video of exploding cars and hot, hot fires. Well, thanks, so much.
Theres a man in Jersey who has accomplished everything that you are dreaming about, he was threatened to keep quiet, I've seen the setup, solar electric, seperates the hydrogen, he sells the oxygen.
All these hydrogen deniers don't realize we went to the moon with the same hydrogen technology they are talking about. Also ICE hydrogen technology is not near as feasible. The fuel cell technology currently used on the Toyota Mirai is the way to go. Then the storage issues everyone clamors about are mitigated with carbon nanotubes or solidstate hydrogen storage.
Another video for daydreamers. 1) how many kWh of H2 can you produce on a sunny day, keeping in mind EVs consumption ranges between 10 and 15 kWh / 100 km if you drive sensibly ? 2) Fuel cell cars running on H2 are filled between 300 and 700 bars at the pump. How do you manage such high pressures in a domestic environment ?
I don't understand, how is the gas pressurized and chilled? Liquid hydrogen (LH2) is typically stored at extremely low temperatures and low pressures to keep it in its liquid state. The boiling point of hydrogen at one atmosphere of pressure is about -252.87 degrees Celsius (-423.17 degrees Fahrenheit). To keep hydrogen in its liquid form, it needs to be maintained at temperatures close to or below its boiling point.
@@VenturaIT "check out Mike Strizki's Hydrogen House Project" Ok, I checked it out. His 40kW of solar power (at least 70 large pv panels) is massive. The average US household uses around 30 kWh of electricity per day, which would require 5 kW to 8.5 kW solar system (depending on sun exposure) to offset 100%. So his system would power well over FIVE average (non-hydrogen) homes and allow charging an EV as well at each home. Without needing the huge underground storage tank and all the pumps, compressors, and controls shown in his photos. Wait--isn't NiMH just a battery chemistry? You mean he's storing his solar power in batteries, like everybody else? OY! And this is supposed to convince me?
Don't trust my figures - they're first stage guesstimate. So 250 Liters does not refer to liquid - but gas. Compressed to 1000 PSI that equals a full size man-portable tank - about 120# if steel. What is the weight of 1 liter of hydrogen gas? One Liter of Hydrogen under standard conditions weighs 0.0896 g. 1KG/.0896 = 24,553 Liters (Per KG of H2) So from either measure, we're talking about only 22g or 0.77 Oz of hydrogen production per day. What is the gasoline equivalent? Surprisingly Hydrogen is just less than 3x greater energy equivalence than gasoline by weight (it's pure fuel, and much lighter than carbon.) So we're talking about 2 OUNCES OF GASOLINE PER DAY. Other people seem to have come up with similar numbers. That means you would need 12 panels in optimal weather to fill your Slurpee cup.
250l .... of gaseous hydrogen or liquid hydrogen??? If it's gaseous, I'm pretty sure that's not alot. How is it stored? Does the panel power the storage?
Typical industrial concentration / pressure to achieve 'decent' **energy density** of the [H2]g is at approx. 1000+ psig / 67+ bar. At that extreme pressure, most metal containment and storage is essentially 'transparent' ("leaks like hell" ... simply because the hydrogen molecures are ~smaller than the molecular crystaline lattice dimensions of the containment metal) unless these metals are very carefully FORGED (and additionally all the sealing compoonets are ultra-precision metal "ring-seals"). Such makes the initial manufacture of the high pressure 'storage containment ' of [H2]g prohibitively EXPENSIVE. On top of that, under current regulations, one will need a special license and permit to store it. AT the very MINIMUM, hydrogen is most certainly NOT READY for PRIME TIME ... economical and 'safe' storage is already established & required, 'lethal service' containment is the problem. - As an example, If one omits such special storage of the super high pressure [H2]g fuel tank on a smallish commuter vehicle would probably need the 'tank' to be the 1/2 the volumetric size of the HINDENBURG Zeppelin ... for minimum miles driven.
@@albertlevert2988 One must realize that hydrogen gas has a very LOW energy density at 'normal' to atmospheric pressures. Also, most dissociation (moleculaar separation) of water molecules into oxygen and hydrogen are usually at a NET ENERGY LOSS ... it takes more energy input than one gets out of the process, especially when compression of the gas is involved. The most efficient and most economical means of generating hydrogen gas remains - the 'cracking' of hydrogen molecules from hydrocarbons (a common practice within oil refineries !!!)
Thank you for clarifying what the PV industry is. I will say this is so neat! Say, have you made a video explaining how a hydrogen ICE differs functionally from gasoline ICE? Ignition timing, combustion shape? Are they all direct injection?
Hydrogen ICE is even more dumb than hydrogen fuel cell, which, by itself, make no engineering, financial, environmental or safely sense at all. Have a little dig into the pros and cons and try to ignore the big oil propaganda. It is the fossil fuel industry who are silently behind this insane push for hydrogen. That should ring some alarm bells in the mind.
I am looking into a hydrogen generator to power a combustion generator for powering my home. Unfortunately, from what I've seen so far, powering a car with stored hydrogen is extremely difficult.
Why not just power your house from inverters? It would be much cheaper and you will get roughly four times the electricity from the same solar panels into your house.
@peek5548 the primary byproducts of combustion of fossil fuels is CO2 and water. Water in already present inside car engines. Sorry, you need to research this topic instead of believing everything you are told.
You won't be able to store the hydrogen itself except in low amounts probably. It's the same problem with filling up tires with air pressure. You need the generator to generate enough energy to fill the tanks, or a compressor. This means the generated hydrogen would have to be immediately burnt by a generator and then the electricity stored in a battery. And filling up your hydrogen car would take hours. Meanwhile your generator wouldn't be running.
@@VenturaIT "check out Mike Strizki's Hydrogen House Project" Ok, I checked it out. His 40kW of solar power (at least 70 large pv panels) is massive. The average US household uses around 30 kWh of electricity per day, which would require 5 kW to 8.5 kW solar system (depending on sun exposure) to offset 100%. So his system would power well over FIVE average (non-hydrogen) homes and allow charging an EV as well at each home. Without needing the huge underground storage tank and all the pumps, compressors, and controls shown in his photos. OY! And this is supposed to convince me?
I worked in renewables for 3 years and you have to watch the math, 250l of Hydrogen sounds like a lot but at atmospheric pressure it only has 2.625 kw of energy, since an electric car uses about 3.5 kw per mile (as an energy baseline example)... you will drive about 1320 yards... with a big balloon trailing the car, If you wanted to compress it to 5000 psi or more it would likely give a zero return. The problem here is not the hydrogen it is the solar, like all renewables (except hydro) solar is very dilute energy and if you want to make appreciable amounts of hydrogen you need dense energy, compressing it is also very energy intense especially when you go to 5000 psi or more which is what you need to actually store enough to use in say a car. Hydrogen is neat stuff but has unique problems that make it expensive and costly to make and utilize. My take is natural gas is 3/4 hydrogen, take it and use it, stop the idiocy about no carbon fuels, we don't need to get rid of all carbon to save the world, it is far safer than hydrogen too. Energy (kWh) = 0.25 cubic meter × 10.5 kWh/m³ = 2.625 kWh
Yes, hydrogen would have to be compressed, or cooled. The energy cost to do so will far outweigh any cost benefits. For a fuel cell, the compression required is 700 bar (10,000 psi) requiring very specialized and expensive tanks and to generate any electricity from it you need catalysts that use the most expensive and rarest metals on the planet. It's a total financial and environmental dead-end - being promoted by, guess who, he fossil fuel industry. I'll leave it up to you to work out why big oil are so enthusiastic.
@@mb-3faze big oil? Let me guess. ROI and supply and demand. Well there are some better ways to compressor there but it's part of the separation of H and O process but still expensive. Ty
@@l0I0I0I0 It seems counter intuitive that they (big oil) would be promoting 'green hydrogen' but they have a long game: the establishment of a hydrogen economy greenwashed in to existence using solar PV and wind turbine energy. It takes a few minutes with a calculator and some easily available government energy statistics to realize that electrolysis will never produce enough economic hydrogen and that the only solution to the supply problem will be reforming methane to produce hydrogen - and big oil will happily keep sucking that out of the ground to satisfy demand.
Most everything you have heard about hydrogen was ALREADY FUNDED by big oil... If it is such a 'dead end' entirely, then why did they murder the first person to go public with a completely hydrogen powered car ? Think, use your brains, stop parroting the same old story. Follow the money, and you find many cover ups along the way. Profit/greed drives them.
Let's see now. If you use 1 liter of hydrogen in a fuel cell, you can expect 3 watt hours of electricity. If you burn 1 liter of hydrogen, you can expect 13 kilo joules of heat, which in practical terms would be 4 to 6 kilo joules of electricity (1.11 to 2.66 watt hours). Let's be generous and assume using a fuel cell for its higher efficiency. For an electric vehicle, they get between 4 to 6.4 km per kWh, depending upon efficiency with a current average of 4.8 km/kWh. So that 250 liters of hydrogen gives you approximately 750 watt hours, or a range of 3 to 4.8 km depending upon efficiency. Somehow that sounds less than amazing.
Sounds too good to be true, and it is. The company says a product will only be available in 2030 (probably later) and that the price will eventually and hopefully go down to what solar panels are today, meaning not in the foreseeable future. Moreover, if it's 250 liters of gaseous hydrogen a day it's like 22 grams (~0.05 pounds) which is nothing. :(
Well said, if it were as dreamy as discussed in this video you would just mount a couple of these on top of your vehicle and be able to drive as long as you had water to feed it (a long time).
All ready running an ev off solar. Solar also runs the house. It works beautifully. I like the idea of producing hydrogen but am concerned about potential for fire or worse. Fascinating tec. Would love to see the safety issues addressed.
250 liter hydrogen gas has very little energy because H2 is extremely light. Suppose that 250 liter is about 35 grams; and suppose it has twice as much energy per unit of weight as petrol, that would be like 70 gram petrol per day... not even 1/10th of a liter petrol.
The density of gasoline is about 0.75 kg/l and the calorific value is about 43 MJ/kg (approx. 9 kWh/l). What makes hydrogen an interesting energy carrier is the high calorific value of hydrogen gas, approx. 119 MJ/kg.
250 LITERS of hydrogen? FABULOUS. That will drive approx. 1/2 mile far. I can WALK farther than that in a day. Oh I only need to install 1000 of these? I'll try to put them in my neighbor's garden, mine is not large enough. THANK YOU! Can you lend me the money to buy them first? It's got to cost less than 10 Million for 1000, right?
Spending that last 30 years working with hydrogen production, storage, and on demand technologies, it is clear that hydrogen is in no way capable of replacing fossil fuels, even if you have the infrastructure and distribution networks built for it. If it can't be made on demand (while driving) from water stored inside the vehicle, then it's a very long ways to being capable of knocking out pure electric or fossil fueled drive trains. I'm sorry, I wish I were wrong, but these are the facts at the moment.
I believe there might be some oversimplification in your explanation, especially regarding the use of hydrogen in a combustion engine. Toyota did attempt this approach, and the maintenance costs of such engines turned out to be quite challenging; they required frequent parts replacement, often as often as every two hours. It's more common to convert hydrogen into electricity using fuel cells and then use that electricity to power an electric motor in a car. While hydrogen-powered cars have potential, it's crucial to address the challenges of storing and handling hydrogen safely. Storing highly flammable gas at 350 bars of pressure in a home tank is a significant safety concern. Just to give you an idea, the pressure in a typical car tire is only about 2.5 bars. In this context, electric cars seem like a more practical and logical solution. They can be directly powered by solar panels and then act as a storage solution for excess electricity, which can be used to power your home at night. This approach is not only safer but also more efficient and feasible for everyday consumers.
any idea how much 250l of hydrogen weighs? about 22.5g. Any idea how much hydrogen is equivalent to 1 gal of gasoline? it's about 1kg. Not sure what car you're planning on running on 1 days' worth of hydrogen generation... Just a piece of advice.... you might consider looking at this from an economy of scales perspective.
They could fill the interior of the car with the 250 liters - and then sit inside and light a match. At least parts of their body and bits of the car will reach the intended destination (possibly).
so at room temp, 120 L of H2 has approx 360wh or 0.36 KWh of energy which is equivalent to 0.03 gallon of Gasoline. In other words, to replace 1 gallon of gasoline would take over 4000 L of Hydrogen
I think the main point here is a bank of these could be added to bio-gas systems that are already in place.For example meat works or piggeries which and running engines to generate electricity and hot water.I would imagine an extra 5-10 percent would be extremely beneficial
Hydrogen should be stored and is used in liquid form (thus compressed). That's one big problem. Then, 250 liter Hydrogen?that's probably gaz. Less than half a liter of liquid Hydrogen. ?
Hydrogen has been around for a while, but making it better hasn't really come about. The metal-hydride lattice thingy VenturaIT is spamming about, was proposed 20-30 years ago - hasn't really come about so far.
You never mentioned once the huge inefficiency of hydrogen production and usage, the cost associated with storage, the weight of fuel cells, the cost of the infrastructure for distribution, because if your hydrogen panels allow you to go shopping, you'll need to refuel at an hydrogen filling station for any longer distances. More costly tanks, pumps, tank trucks, road traffic and degradation, etc., whereas the electric grid is already transporting energy everywhere. Hydrogen is mostly pushed by oil companies, because for them it will just be like another fuel to produce and transport and sell, whereas they have zero incentives to sponsor photovoltaic panels and charging networks that do well without them. Hydrogen as a fuel is already dead in the water, it was still a question mark a few years ago for semi trucks, but even this is past history now. Tesla is building electric semis, and even Nikola Motors switched gears and abandoned their grandiose hydrogen future for the Tre electric semi. Well, the Iveco Tre, I should say. It's still extremely costly to produce green hydrogen, and it's not likely to ever become cheaper than hydrogen from natural gas, unless we tax natural gas heavily because of its environmental (and some health) effects. But mostly, there are already many sectors that use dirty hydrogen and a few where green hydrogen would really help the environment that we don't need to invent new usages for it such as transportation: We have the capacity to produce only a tiny fraction of the dirty hydrogen we already use, we probably won't be able to produce all that we consume for at least a few decades, even though it will become cheaper to produce. Just look at the volume of hydrogen we currently use, the volume we might be using for cement making, steel foundries and maybe other industrial usages, and the little fart of green hydrogen we currently produce. Even a 100% doubling of production next year would mean 2 farts instead of 1. OK, puffs.
Biohydrogen can be produced from green algae found in swamps to biotechnology laboratories to further provide interim products for QHSE storage, ecosystems and commerce (monetization). Biohydrogen can generate income and improve the economy for those who own a few acres of land. Research on growing algae in swamps and undisturbed jungles.
3 problems. 1) storgae. 2) still run on a highly complicated hydrogen engine (high maintained engine). 3) low efficient comparing to the electric motor.
I dont think production of energy is problem, the clean one, problem is storage so far. So I would rather have PV panels on the roof with good cheap long lasting high density storage then create something that can explode in your backyard.
This figure of 250L may be at 1 atmosphere at 20 degrees Celsius (21 grams per panel per day). So nothing close to what is required to run a car.
Před rokem+11
Few problems will arise here. Insurance for your house would probably go up because you essentially have a potential hazardous installation at home. Next to that is you have to choose your available space for solar or hydrogen production. Unless the panel is switchable between those two options. While all new technologies are impressive most homes aren't suitable and need modifications or best is to build a new one with all new technologies in mind.
It's no different from having a gas line in your home. Many have those and it's proven to be safe. Hydrogen would be no more of a risk, even far less because there are no long lines involved.
It's silly to think insurance for your home would go up if you installed these panels. There is plenty of space to install these panels on the roof of your garage, house, carport, patio, Shed, and in your backyard while having space for solar panels and even solar heater panels. The modifications to your home will be minimal - you just install the panels.
Před rokem+2
@@ent1311 yes it could. If I did this in my country I have to get approval from the government and it has to be company build equipment. This would also have to be insured, safety checked regularly. We're not allowed to randomly install self-built equipment. It has to be approved. Not only for your own safety but also for others.
When I was 12 I got a chemistry set for Christmas. One of the experiments was making hydrogen. Fortunately it just made a small explosion and fire. I was told not to do those experiments in the house any more.
There is a much better solution. Just use your PV system to charge your EV. Way more efficient. Even my small 6.2 kWpeak PV system generates more than 40 kWh per day from late spring to summer, which is enough for 200 km driving per day
YES, SO I HAVE 2 VERY IMP QUESTION TO THIS. 1. How is the govt and coperations gonna respond to this??? 2. How will the company benifit after market saturation???
H needs to compressed and stored in high pressure contained for use . Then need filling equipment to use in cars and trucks and regulator for home use. Natural gas is better for the next 10-20 years at least as 98% of these ideas never work as hyped.
When I was a baby engineer, I worked in the chemical process industry. Enormous chemical plants. Acres and acres of process equipment and hundreds of kilometres of piping. The most dangerous thing on those plant sites were the hydrogen lines and process vessels. I would tend to shy away from home production of hydrogen…
Basically an upscaled version of an ionic membrane dehumidifier, currently used in sensitive electronic enclosures that need a reduced moisture environment.
Just use solar power straight to your electrolysis. Many people have done this for decades. In three months you can generate enough to store for the winter assuming you use fuel cell car and furl cell home in cold climate.
I think........the governments will not want this approach as they are unable to make tax receipts from the free energy created. I agree with the approach but how do we get around the lack of tax receipts currently enjoyed by the governments of the world? Personally, EV vehicles are a short term step to hydrogen........but governments will not want people making their own hydrogen.
If my sums are correct 250 litres of hydrogen is equivalent in energy to 77 ml of gasoline. My car has a 40 litre tank which would take 520 days to fill up with your setup. Hydrogen has a high energy density by mass but a very low energy density by volume. Hydrogen makes some sense as a long term energy storage medium for a power grid dominated by non-dispatchable (ie not controllable) renewables such as wind and solar as it will hold energy longer than batteries and more efficient alternatives such as pumped hydro or compressed air and heat storage are either already well exploited or prohibitively expensive. But even there the efficiency to produce hydrogen from electricity is about 60% and the highest efficiency today to convert it back into electricity (either a fuel cell or combined cycle gas turbine power plant) is about 60% the round trip efficiency is only 0.6x0.6= 0.36 or 36% not including the loss of energy for storing and transporting. This compares to a round trip efficiency of 99% for lithium ion batteries which explains why hydrogen makes zero sense as a fuel for cars.
Hi Chris, is there a way to get hydrogen shipped to you or anything like this unit that can make a useful amount of fuel? My buyers bought a Lyriq and were so impressed on the deal they got....... they didn't realize we are in Indiana and the nearest station is in Quebec or LA, It's a really comical story to say the least!! I would love to have a few minutes to pick your brain if you would be so kind. Thanks!
The only being where this is handy is with cat litter...it's CALLED LITRES . AS IN LITRES WHICH DESCRIBES A VOLUME THAT VOLUME IS ON LITRES AS IN LITRES .
I have a nice home IC generator that is 7,500 watts. It can use gasoline or LPG. So I wonder if it can use Hydrogen? If so, it would be one way to charge a battery bank. The other way I see is using fuel cells which require a source of hydrogen. If this could be done with this technology it would be great.
Using solar panels to make hydrogen to run a generator to charge a battery bank would be a very inefficient use of the energy produced by the solar panel. It would be far more efficient to use the solar panels to charge the battery and use the money you saved (by not buying a hydrogen plant, storage system etc...) to buy a bigger battery.
@@VenturaIT "check out Mike Strizki's Hydrogen House Project" Ok, I checked it out. His 40kW of solar power (at least 70 large pv panels) is massive. The average US household uses around 30 kWh of electricity per day, which would require 5 kW to 8.5 kW solar system (depending on sun exposure) to offset 100%. So his system would power well over FIVE average (non-hydrogen) homes and allow charging an EV as well at each home. Without needing the huge underground storage tank and all the pumps, compressors, and controls shown in his photos. Oh, and isn't NiMH just a battery chemistry? You mean he's storing his solar power in batteries, like everybody else? OY! And this is supposed to convince me? If you can repeat your comment, I can repeat mine! (Apologies to the others reading this!)
@@youtubemakesmedothis7280That's not his house that's his first customer's house. He has all kinds of projects and smaller versions available. You can ask him if you have any questions about his projects and products.
@@youtubemakesmedothis7280 And you are wrong about the EV charging requirements: Tesla Model charging efficiencies Tesla Model Energy Required To Charge Battery (k Wh) End Charge Of Battery (k Wh) Efficiency (percentage) Model 3 69.598 kWh* 62.047 kWh 87.83% Model 3 Long Range 86.073 kWh* 76.577 kWh 87.60% Model 3 Performance 94.242 kWh** 80.818 kWh 83.39% Model S 114.054 kWh** 98.267 kWh 83.93% Model S Plaid 116.344 kWh** 99.287 kWh 82.82% Model X 114.97 kWh** 99.976 kWh 85.00% Model X Plaid 114.882 kWh* 102.829 kWh*** 88.28% Model Y Long Range 91.115 kWh* 80.708 kWh 87.11% Model Y Performance 92.213 kWh** 81.052 kWh 86.23% *Based on model year 2022, the closest model listed by the EPA. **Based on model year 2021, the closest model listed by the EPA. ***Based on the 2021 Performance model, the closest model listed by the EPA. (from energysage)
For a realistic and practical prospective, the Toyota Mirai hydrogen fuel cell car needs approximately 62000 litres of gaseous hydrogen, approximately 5kg, to travel around 350 miles. Both those hydrogen figures are very much temperature dependent but 1000 litres of hydrogen gas weighs 82 grams at zero degrees Celsius, hence the enormous amount by volume required. In order to carry that amount of hydrogen the two onboard tanks are charged to around 500 bars, though the initial transfer pressure will be nearer to 700+ bar. Personally, I think that’s a ridiculous proposition for day to day transport and certainly wouldn’t want to sit myself and / or my family anywhere near it.
What do small hydrogen cell cost? Direct ethanol fuel cells are quite expensive and huge. I wanted to look into ones for robotics, but also for UPS (backup energy) or mobile energy for a RV. These are all much smaller than for running a car, but it's expensive. I wonder if hydrogen ones are already cheaper to produce.
Hydrogen fuel cells have existed for a long time. They are about the size of a water heater. The problem has been having a source of Hydrogen. This could be it.
Are we talking liters of hydrogen gas or liquid? 250 liters of hydrogen gas is nothing. That would be completely worthless. 250 liters of liquid hydrogen would be very useful, but also completely impossible with the power of the solar panels shown. I’m calling BS on this thing. Maybe someone got their facts wrong.
250 liters of hydrogen at standard conditions is roughly 21 grams, which has same amount of energy as about 75 milliliters of gasoline. In other words, the output equals about 7 US gallons of gasoline per YEAR, assuming excellent weather every day, and it doesn't break, and assuming it actually works that well. The cost for the whole system can not ever get close to the price of conventional solar panels, as handling hydrogen is much more complicated and difficult.
You don't have to use compressed hydrogen, there has been gas/hydrogen hybrid kits for years. They just electrolyze the hydrogen from distilled water. They are about $1000-2000.
If the cost vs benefit is profitable, the big energy companies will buy the patents and lock them away. If the inventors refuse to sell, they will end up like Stanley Meyer. Thorium Molten Salt Reactors are the best way to reduce the cost of energy to the point that other tech. can break through that is even better.
Hhehe…. Yeah…. Solution1: Lithium-ion batteries Drive car, park at home, solar panel charges battery. (what, 85-95% effective at best?) Solution2: Drive car, park at home, solar panel converts power to hydrogen, then converts solar to compress hydrogen, then converts solar to refill car, car drives away. (what 30% effective at best?)
@@VenturaIT "check out Mike Strizki's Hydrogen House Project" Ok, I checked it out. His 40kW of solar power (at least 70 large pv panels) is massive. The average US household uses around 30 kWh of electricity per day, which would require 5 kW to 8.5 kW solar system (depending on sun exposure) to offset 100%. So his system would power well over FIVE average (non-hydrogen) homes and allow charging an EV as well at each home. Without needing the huge underground storage tank and all the pumps, compressors, and controls shown in his photos. Oh, and isn't NiMH just a battery chemistry? You mean he's storing his solar power in batteries, like everybody else? OY! And this is supposed to convince me?
@@youtubemakesmedothis7280The 40kw that you are talking about is not his, that's his first customer's house. His house is different... probably more storage and less solar. The amount of solar and tanks probably depends on how much solar you have. The problem is that solar doesn't work at night or in the clouds or winter very well... so the hydrogen fills that in. He says that very clearly. But don't ask me about his projects and products, ask him. Also you are wrong about the EV charging requirements: Tesla Model charging efficiencies Tesla Model Energy Required To Charge Battery (k Wh) End Charge Of Battery (k Wh) Efficiency (percentage) Model 3 69.598 kWh* 62.047 kWh 87.83% Model 3 Long Range 86.073 kWh* 76.577 kWh 87.60% Model 3 Performance 94.242 kWh** 80.818 kWh 83.39% Model S 114.054 kWh** 98.267 kWh 83.93% Model S Plaid 116.344 kWh** 99.287 kWh 82.82% Model X 114.97 kWh** 99.976 kWh 85.00% Model X Plaid 114.882 kWh* 102.829 kWh*** 88.28% Model Y Long Range 91.115 kWh* 80.708 kWh 87.11% Model Y Performance 92.213 kWh** 81.052 kWh 86.23% *Based on model year 2022, the closest model listed by the EPA. **Based on model year 2021, the closest model listed by the EPA. ***Based on the 2021 Performance model, the closest model listed by the EPA. (from energysage)
> Since it's a solar based system, you can use all your hydrogen for heating in the summer. Sorry, no hydrogen available during the winter because solar is negligible.
awesome. just wondering it some corporation will block it with a patent or something. on the big scale, the Japanese are already on it. fission and fusion will create all the H we need. and Toyota has the Murai. we haven't found clean batteries yet...
All energy stored on a suny day from these PV and Electrolyzer is 3000 BTU/day or 0.88 kwh/d heat energy or 880 Wh/d heat. Efficiency is extremely low. It will take 45 days to produce 1 kg H2.
This is looking for a technology when a solution already exists that has been shown to work in the 1970's in France and 1990's in the US by Stanley Meyer, I can only assume that the electrolysis they used was based on pulsed electronics probably using resonant frequencies of Hydrogen or Oxygen or some sort of mathematical transform
HYDROGEN POWERED MUSCLE TRUCK; this is the name of a video everybody who thinks hydrogen cars are dangerous or expensive need to see ..........rich electric car makers want you to think EV's are the only thing but that is not how humans work. also how have i not seen your channel till now ? this thing looks awesome .i remember hearing about a load of hydrogen cars with solar stations from honda some years ago that never materialised , i hope this has more meat.
Probably a stupid question, but if you split water into hydrogen and oxygen, aren't you essentially destroying water? And my understanding is that water isn't being created in nature, so over time if this became the dominant fuel, wouldn't there be a risk of destroying too much water? I understand water is quite abundant here on Earth, but I'm talking about long-term, centuries from now.
We could 'destroy' water for 1 million years and the amount would not be 1% of current water supply. It is nearly unfathomable the amount of water that exists. So even if it 'used' up the water (it doesnt) it would have 0 impact on the total supply. Water scarcity is just location based, that is all. Even then, with unlimited energy there is unlimited water from air !
California will have the nation's first hydrogen hub after federal officials announced a $12.6 billion agreement on July 17. It is funded by the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law signed by President Biden in 2021. It aims to produce hydrogen for vehicles, electricity, etc. It is expected to reduce fossil fuel use by 2 million metric tons annually and create up to 220,000 jobs. The hydrogen hub will be developed and funded by the U.S. Department of Energy. The project aims to help California achieve carbon neutrality by 2045. More than 10 sites will be built to produce renewable hydrogen for the ports of Long Beach, Oakland, and Los Angeles. California will have over 60 hydrogen fueling stations for electric trucks and buses and help in transitioning several power plants to hydrogen. The project will span the entire state. The announcement comes after California was also selected in 2023 as the recipient of a $1.2 billion grant for the development of renewable hydrogen. Congratulations taxpayers, Joe Biden has just added another $13.8 billion dollars to the national debt. Hint: Congress has no money and will need to borrow this money. Forty nine states will get no benefit - but will end up helping to pay for this project. It helps to have friends in the White House and Congress when you want a project funded in your district. This US Treasury debt money of $13.8 billion dollars will cost US taxpayers approximately $600 million dollars in yearly interest payments. Over a 30 year period the total interest payments will roughly equal $18 billion dollars. Taxpayers will still be on the hook for the original $13.8 billion, since Congress will only fund the interest on the money it borrows. Congress will repay the original $13.8 billion dollars by borrowing another $13.8 billion and repaying the original loan. The cycle keeps repeating forever. That is why the national taxpayer debt is now over $35 trillion dollars. In 2026 US taxpayers will start paying over $1 trillion dollars yearly in interest payments on the national debt. Expect this amount to increase every year for as long as you live or the USA goes bankrupt.
You can run a car for an hour with a mixture of water and tablespoon of baking soda in a plastic container pullout the petrol tube into the carb and put in the tube from from the plastic container which is sealed and the hydrogen will run the car a bit sluggish it just needs refining
250L at normal pressure is 22g of hydrogen. The typical hydrogen fuel cell vehicle gets about 96km per kg. With your 22g of hydrogen, you'll be able to drive about 2km.
The panel appears to be about 2 m^2. For comparison, a 2m^2 solar panel would produce about 2 kwh a day in Belgium. A good EV gets > 6km per kwh, so your solar panel would take you 12 km.
This ignores the losses if you want to compress the hydrogen (about 10%) or liquefy it (30%).
And sadly, this is the real killer for hydrogen. If we are going to use wind turbines and solar panels to power our transportation, we will need six to ten times more turbines/panels for a fuel cell based system than a battery system.
@@gavinminion8515 It's funny how the same people who say "we can never have enough renewable energy" are the same ones who keep proposing systems that would require much much more renewables to to even break even. It's like they see the end goal in site and are trying to find a way to move it back over the hill and out of site.
no, you are behind the times... check out Mike Strizki's Hydrogen House Project he uses nickel metal hydride to store hydrogen.
hydrogen from hydrolysis cannot bring more energy than solar panel directly produces
@@VenturaIT Hi, it's not just the storage that is at issue here. It's the efficiency loss. Fuel cell vehicles are less efficient than batteries and that will be very difficult to overcome. That is not to say Hydrogen (or ammonia) will not have a use (possibly in shipping or heavy construction machinery where energy demand is higher) but that it will be difficult to scale it up for private vehicles.
I find the commentary to be more informative than the video. Energy density is everything.
Welcome to utube 🎉
250 liters if h2 at 1 atmosphere will run your car for 5 minutes...
And let your hunk of junk gasoline ice vehicle sit in the sun for a day, how many minutes of drive time does it give you? ZERO!!!
Wrkbg
Too bad it's not at 1 atmosphere and it's not used in an ICE it's being used in a hydrogen fuel cell...
Liquify
Depends how you use it, if you use it in a voltaic cell fashion then it will only be 5 minutes, however if you use it in a combustion fashion then it will last far longer
yes I love the idea of making hydrogen from solar directly
Everyone ignores energy density when discussing hydrogen.
Not everyone. Just everyone advocating for hydrogen.
you are behind the times... check out Mike Strizki's Hydrogen House Project he uses nickel metal hydride to store hydrogen.
@colinmitchell7760 check out Mike Strizki's Hydrogen House Project he runs his house, car, lawn mower, everything on hydrogen from the sun... this is not spam, you are giving out scientifically incorrect info... it's not true that just because there is no proliferation of something doesn't mean it's not true or not viable... everything was not being done before it WAS done.
also ignores the notion of a finite supply of water.
@@chipgribble6797there is no shortage of water, seawater works just fine, actually better for hydrogen extraction
The hard part with hydrogen is... you need to compress it to high pressure to carry any meaningful amount. To run your car you are going to be filling tanks at 2000-3000psi. That pump is very expensive. Its also somewhat dangerous to be running around with that kind of pressure.
Mirai runs at 10,000 psi.
Really well its a good job when offshore that the heavy compenstors didnt run at high pressures, ahem 350-700bar is contained quite safely now.
no, you are behind the times... check out Mike Strizki's Hydrogen House Project he uses nickel metal hydride to store hydrogen.
Or you can just use battery for EV
@VenturaIT Nickle metal hydride? That's a battery sir. He stores hydrogen at 300psi in ten, 1000 gallon decommissioned propane tanks.
Problem is storage and not production. The safety issues for a large tank full of hydrogen are ,to put it mildly, significant.
Yes. This video ignores so many technical barriers about "actually" using Hydrogen in the way described. Producing Hydrogen has never been the problem. Simply put, there is no real way to store Hydrogen molecules because, look at the periodic table, it's the first element on that chart for a reason - it is the smallest known atom to exist. So small that other physical barriers do little to properly contain it. The best is a leaky storage tank.
Solid hydrogen has already been tested in lab, and is in process of being commercialized.
@@canterburyworkshop5631 Link please. Also, how about a run down of how much extra energy it takes to solidify it. It takes 30% of the energy in the hydrogen just to liquefy it.
The energy density of tanks also suck. People love to talk about the energy density per kg of hydrogen, but any commercial tanks you'll find weight 20x the mass of the hydrogen they hold, totally negating the energy density benefit. Also, if you want to compress it, it takes another 10% of the energy that was in the hydrogen, and if you want to liquefy it, it takes 30%, and then you lose it to boil off at a high rate.
@@canterburyworkshop5631no it isn’t
Having hydrogen at home must be handled with quite a high level of...security....😊
What could possibly go wrong? To quote a 1937 radio news reporter "Oh the humanity."
Except that it rises very quickly, unlike gasoline fumes
Untrained, unequipped homeowners producing and storing hydrogen? What could possibly go wrong with that?? ICEs burning hydrogen? So we will still lose energy to heat losses, still have oil changes, engine repairs . . . . Yes, but in addition, we will have spectacular CZcams content with video of exploding cars and hot, hot fires. Well, thanks, so much.
Theres a man in Jersey who has accomplished everything that you are dreaming about, he was threatened to keep quiet, I've seen the setup, solar electric, seperates the hydrogen, he sells the oxygen.
I think I know the guy you're talking about. He was storing the hydrogen in large propane tanks wasn't he?
Who is this guy?
@@parzival988 no chance we are telling you Mr big oil assassin 😂
All these hydrogen deniers don't realize we went to the moon with the same hydrogen technology they are talking about. Also ICE hydrogen technology is not near as feasible. The fuel cell technology currently used on the Toyota Mirai is the way to go.
Then the storage issues everyone clamors about are mitigated with carbon nanotubes or solidstate hydrogen storage.
Also Elon Musk, Honda are coming out with HPEV models next year. Of which Toyota has successfully marketer a HPEV Mirai model since 2016..
Litres at what pressure? Use moles.
10 mol? 22.4 times 10 is roughly 250
Another video for daydreamers.
1) how many kWh of H2 can you produce on a sunny day, keeping in mind EVs consumption ranges between 10 and 15 kWh / 100 km if you drive sensibly ?
2) Fuel cell cars running on H2 are filled between 300 and 700 bars at the pump. How do you manage such high pressures in a domestic environment ?
I don't understand, how is the gas pressurized and chilled? Liquid hydrogen (LH2) is typically stored at extremely low temperatures and low pressures to keep it in its liquid state. The boiling point of hydrogen at one atmosphere of pressure is about -252.87 degrees Celsius (-423.17 degrees Fahrenheit). To keep hydrogen in its liquid form, it needs to be maintained at temperatures close to or below its boiling point.
you are behind the times... check out Mike Strizki's Hydrogen House Project he uses nickel metal hydride to store hydrogen.
@@VenturaIT "check out Mike Strizki's Hydrogen House Project" Ok, I checked it out. His 40kW of solar power (at least 70 large pv panels) is massive. The average US household uses around 30 kWh of electricity per day, which would require 5 kW to 8.5 kW solar system (depending on sun exposure) to offset 100%. So his system would power well over FIVE average (non-hydrogen) homes and allow charging an EV as well at each home. Without needing the huge underground storage tank and all the pumps, compressors, and controls shown in his photos. Wait--isn't NiMH just a battery chemistry? You mean he's storing his solar power in batteries, like everybody else?
OY! And this is supposed to convince me?
Imagine reving a hydrogen powered car ❤❤
Don't trust my figures - they're first stage guesstimate. So 250 Liters does not refer to liquid - but gas. Compressed to 1000 PSI that equals a full size man-portable tank - about 120# if steel.
What is the weight of 1 liter of hydrogen gas?
One Liter of Hydrogen under standard conditions weighs 0.0896 g.
1KG/.0896 = 24,553 Liters (Per KG of H2)
So from either measure, we're talking about only 22g or 0.77 Oz of hydrogen production per day.
What is the gasoline equivalent?
Surprisingly Hydrogen is just less than 3x greater energy equivalence than gasoline by weight (it's pure fuel, and much lighter than carbon.) So we're talking about 2 OUNCES OF GASOLINE PER DAY.
Other people seem to have come up with similar numbers.
That means you would need 12 panels in optimal weather to fill your Slurpee cup.
250 litres of hydrogen is about 20 grams. It would take about ten days production to equal 1 litre of petrol.
Buy more panels.
This would make house fires interesting.
I can not believe that this tech will not be derailed some how by powerful fossil fuel corporations and countries.
It will be derailed when people find out it is useless, in a vehicle, it is all a scam, the world is full of them now.
Its much cheaper and vastly easier to 'crack' petroleum in a refinery into component hydrogen
250l .... of gaseous hydrogen or liquid hydrogen???
If it's gaseous, I'm pretty sure that's not alot. How is it stored? Does the panel power the storage?
This is a great idea, but it will never be allowed to be used because governments and billionaires won't make anything from it .
At what pressure do you suggest to store hydrogen and how much energy will you need for that ?
Typical industrial concentration / pressure to achieve 'decent' **energy density** of the [H2]g is at approx. 1000+ psig / 67+ bar. At that extreme pressure, most metal containment and storage is essentially 'transparent' ("leaks like hell" ... simply because the hydrogen molecures are ~smaller than the molecular crystaline lattice dimensions of the containment metal) unless these metals are very carefully FORGED (and additionally all the sealing compoonets are ultra-precision metal "ring-seals"). Such makes the initial manufacture of the high pressure 'storage containment ' of [H2]g prohibitively EXPENSIVE. On top of that, under current regulations, one will need a special license and permit to store it.
AT the very MINIMUM, hydrogen is most certainly NOT READY for PRIME TIME ... economical and 'safe' storage is already established & required, 'lethal service' containment is the problem. - As an example, If one omits such special storage of the super high pressure [H2]g fuel tank on a smallish commuter vehicle would probably need the 'tank' to be the 1/2 the volumetric size of the HINDENBURG Zeppelin ... for minimum miles driven.
@@richh1576 thank you. This what I presumed but I didn’t have the technical know how. Thank you for bringing it.
@@albertlevert2988 One must realize that hydrogen gas has a very LOW energy density at 'normal' to atmospheric pressures. Also, most dissociation (moleculaar separation) of water molecules into oxygen and hydrogen are usually at a NET ENERGY LOSS ... it takes more energy input than one gets out of the process, especially when compression of the gas is involved.
The most efficient and most economical means of generating hydrogen gas remains - the 'cracking' of hydrogen molecules from hydrocarbons (a common practice within oil refineries !!!)
Thank you for clarifying what the PV industry is. I will say this is so neat! Say, have you made a video explaining how a hydrogen ICE differs functionally from gasoline ICE? Ignition timing, combustion shape? Are they all direct injection?
Hydrogen ICE is even more dumb than hydrogen fuel cell, which, by itself, make no engineering, financial, environmental or safely sense at all. Have a little dig into the pros and cons and try to ignore the big oil propaganda. It is the fossil fuel industry who are silently behind this insane push for hydrogen. That should ring some alarm bells in the mind.
That’s 21g. It has same energy as 60g of gasoline or 0.65kwh electricity.
That won’t take you far.
I am looking into a hydrogen generator to power a combustion generator for powering my home. Unfortunately, from what I've seen so far, powering a car with stored hydrogen is extremely difficult.
Why not just power your house from inverters? It would be much cheaper and you will get roughly four times the electricity from the same solar panels into your house.
@peek5548 the primary byproducts of combustion of fossil fuels is CO2 and water. Water in already present inside car engines. Sorry, you need to research this topic instead of believing everything you are told.
Look at the Toyota Mirai. It's been selling in the US since I believe 2008.
@@jeffmann2494 he would have to find a way to pressurize it to 10,000 psi. Far easier to just get an EV and batteries.
Agreed@@williammeek4078
You won't be able to store the hydrogen itself except in low amounts probably. It's the same problem with filling up tires with air pressure. You need the generator to generate enough energy to fill the tanks, or a compressor. This means the generated hydrogen would have to be immediately burnt by a generator and then the electricity stored in a battery. And filling up your hydrogen car would take hours. Meanwhile your generator wouldn't be running.
Typically the entire process of high compression of Hydrogen gas is a NET ENERGY LOSS
you are behind the times... check out Mike Strizki's Hydrogen House Project he uses nickel metal hydride to store hydrogen.
@@VenturaIT "check out Mike Strizki's Hydrogen House Project" Ok, I checked it out. His 40kW of solar power (at least 70 large pv panels) is massive. The average US household uses around 30 kWh of electricity per day, which would require 5 kW to 8.5 kW solar system (depending on sun exposure) to offset 100%. So his system would power well over FIVE average (non-hydrogen) homes and allow charging an EV as well at each home. Without needing the huge underground storage tank and all the pumps, compressors, and controls shown in his photos. OY! And this is supposed to convince me?
It's illegal to store compressed hydrogen.
Funny! I saw a hydrogen "pump" at a gas station on a US Interstate highway in Ohio. It was I-76 or I-80, westbound.
@@PeterLawton It's illegal for YOU to store compressed hydrogen. Laws are setup to protect corporations, not you.
I worked in renewables for 3 years and you have to watch the math, 250l of Hydrogen sounds like a lot but at atmospheric pressure it only has 2.625 kw of energy, since an electric car uses about 3.5 kw per mile (as an energy baseline example)... you will drive about 1320 yards... with a big balloon trailing the car, If you wanted to compress it to 5000 psi or more it would likely give a zero return.
The problem here is not the hydrogen it is the solar, like all renewables (except hydro) solar is very dilute energy and if you want to make appreciable amounts of hydrogen you need dense energy, compressing it is also very energy intense especially when you go to 5000 psi or more which is what you need to actually store enough to use in say a car.
Hydrogen is neat stuff but has unique problems that make it expensive and costly to make and utilize. My take is natural gas is 3/4 hydrogen, take it and use it, stop the idiocy about no carbon fuels, we don't need to get rid of all carbon to save the world, it is far safer than hydrogen too.
Energy (kWh) = 0.25 cubic meter × 10.5 kWh/m³ = 2.625 kWh
How will the gas be compressed? Do you have any info on compressing hydrogen?
Yes, hydrogen would have to be compressed, or cooled. The energy cost to do so will far outweigh any cost benefits. For a fuel cell, the compression required is 700 bar (10,000 psi) requiring very specialized and expensive tanks and to generate any electricity from it you need catalysts that use the most expensive and rarest metals on the planet. It's a total financial and environmental dead-end - being promoted by, guess who, he fossil fuel industry. I'll leave it up to you to work out why big oil are so enthusiastic.
@@mb-3faze big oil? Let me guess. ROI and supply and demand. Well there are some better ways to compressor there but it's part of the separation of H and O process but still expensive. Ty
@@l0I0I0I0 It seems counter intuitive that they (big oil) would be promoting 'green hydrogen' but they have a long game: the establishment of a hydrogen economy greenwashed in to existence using solar PV and wind turbine energy. It takes a few minutes with a calculator and some easily available government energy statistics to realize that electrolysis will never produce enough economic hydrogen and that the only solution to the supply problem will be reforming methane to produce hydrogen - and big oil will happily keep sucking that out of the ground to satisfy demand.
You are only talking about ONE way to utilize hydrogen and of course it is the way most profitable to oil industries. @@mb-3faze
Most everything you have heard about hydrogen was ALREADY FUNDED by big oil... If it is such a 'dead end' entirely, then why did they murder the first person to go public with a completely hydrogen powered car ? Think, use your brains, stop parroting the same old story. Follow the money, and you find many cover ups along the way. Profit/greed drives them.
If everyone keep absorbing water from moisture in the air.. Doesn't it going to have any impact on atmosphere..?
Let's see now.
If you use 1 liter of hydrogen in a fuel cell, you can expect 3 watt hours of electricity.
If you burn 1 liter of hydrogen, you can expect 13 kilo joules of heat, which in practical terms would be 4 to 6 kilo joules of electricity (1.11 to 2.66 watt hours).
Let's be generous and assume using a fuel cell for its higher efficiency.
For an electric vehicle, they get between 4 to 6.4 km per kWh, depending upon efficiency with a current average of 4.8 km/kWh.
So that 250 liters of hydrogen gives you approximately 750 watt hours, or a range of 3 to 4.8 km depending upon efficiency.
Somehow that sounds less than amazing.
Sounds too good to be true, and it is. The company says a product will only be available in 2030 (probably later) and that the price will eventually and hopefully go down to what solar panels are today, meaning not in the foreseeable future. Moreover, if it's 250 liters of gaseous hydrogen a day it's like 22 grams (~0.05 pounds) which is nothing. :(
you are behind the times... check out Mike Strizki's Hydrogen House Project he uses nickel metal hydride to store hydrogen.
Well said, if it were as dreamy as discussed in this video you would just mount a couple of these on top of your vehicle and be able to drive as long as you had water to feed it (a long time).
The US pays trillions at the drop of a hat to “prevent global warming.” Imagine how many houses could be completely “green” for one trillion.
1L of 30 % compressed hydrogen could take out your entire neighbourhood.
All ready running an ev off solar. Solar also runs the house. It works beautifully. I like the idea of producing hydrogen but am concerned about potential for fire or worse. Fascinating tec. Would love to see the safety issues addressed.
250 liter hydrogen gas has very little energy because H2 is extremely light. Suppose that 250 liter is about 35 grams; and suppose it has twice as much energy per unit of weight as petrol, that would be like 70 gram petrol per day... not even 1/10th of a liter petrol.
The density of gasoline is about 0.75 kg/l and the calorific value is about 43 MJ/kg (approx. 9 kWh/l). What makes hydrogen an interesting energy carrier is the high calorific value of hydrogen gas, approx. 119 MJ/kg.
250 LITERS of hydrogen? FABULOUS. That will drive approx. 1/2 mile far. I can WALK farther than that in a day. Oh I only need to install 1000 of these? I'll try to put them in my neighbor's garden, mine is not large enough. THANK YOU! Can you lend me the money to buy them first? It's got to cost less than 10 Million for 1000, right?
Spending that last 30 years working with hydrogen production, storage, and on demand technologies, it is clear that hydrogen is in no way capable of replacing fossil fuels, even if you have the infrastructure and distribution networks built for it. If it can't be made on demand (while driving) from water stored inside the vehicle, then it's a very long ways to being capable of knocking out pure electric or fossil fueled drive trains. I'm sorry, I wish I were wrong, but these are the facts at the moment.
I believe there might be some oversimplification in your explanation, especially regarding the use of hydrogen in a combustion engine. Toyota did attempt this approach, and the maintenance costs of such engines turned out to be quite challenging; they required frequent parts replacement, often as often as every two hours. It's more common to convert hydrogen into electricity using fuel cells and then use that electricity to power an electric motor in a car. While hydrogen-powered cars have potential, it's crucial to address the challenges of storing and handling hydrogen safely. Storing highly flammable gas at 350 bars of pressure in a home tank is a significant safety concern. Just to give you an idea, the pressure in a typical car tire is only about 2.5 bars. In this context, electric cars seem like a more practical and logical solution. They can be directly powered by solar panels and then act as a storage solution for excess electricity, which can be used to power your home at night. This approach is not only safer but also more efficient and feasible for everyday consumers.
any idea how much 250l of hydrogen weighs? about 22.5g. Any idea how much hydrogen is equivalent to 1 gal of gasoline? it's about 1kg. Not sure what car you're planning on running on 1 days' worth of hydrogen generation... Just a piece of advice.... you might consider looking at this from an economy of scales perspective.
They could fill the interior of the car with the 250 liters - and then sit inside and light a match. At least parts of their body and bits of the car will reach the intended destination (possibly).
so at room temp, 120 L of H2 has approx 360wh or 0.36 KWh of energy which is equivalent to 0.03 gallon of Gasoline. In other words, to replace 1 gallon of gasoline would take over 4000 L of Hydrogen
Petrol and Diesel seem so old fashioned now.
Hydrogen is the new technology now.
China & UAE: DIRECT Electrolysis of SEAWATER
I think the main point here is a bank of these could be added to bio-gas systems that are already in place.For example meat works or piggeries which and running engines to generate electricity and hot water.I would imagine an extra 5-10 percent would be extremely beneficial
Better to just use the PV panels to make electricity.
Hydrogen should be stored and is used in liquid form (thus compressed). That's one big problem. Then, 250 liter Hydrogen?that's probably gaz. Less than half a liter of liquid Hydrogen. ?
Some people look at a thing and can only see what it is and what it can’t do. Smart people look at a thing and think "wow, how can I make this better"
The problem is we already have better. That is just using the same solar panels to just charge an EV to go 3x further.
Hydrogen has been around for a while, but making it better hasn't really come about.
The metal-hydride lattice thingy VenturaIT is spamming about, was proposed 20-30 years ago - hasn't really come about so far.
250L of gas is very different from liquid form.
You never mentioned once the huge inefficiency of hydrogen production and usage, the cost associated with storage, the weight of fuel cells, the cost of the infrastructure for distribution, because if your hydrogen panels allow you to go shopping, you'll need to refuel at an hydrogen filling station for any longer distances. More costly tanks, pumps, tank trucks, road traffic and degradation, etc., whereas the electric grid is already transporting energy everywhere.
Hydrogen is mostly pushed by oil companies, because for them it will just be like another fuel to produce and transport and sell, whereas they have zero incentives to sponsor photovoltaic panels and charging networks that do well without them.
Hydrogen as a fuel is already dead in the water, it was still a question mark a few years ago for semi trucks, but even this is past history now. Tesla is building electric semis, and even Nikola Motors switched gears and abandoned their grandiose hydrogen future for the Tre electric semi. Well, the Iveco Tre, I should say.
It's still extremely costly to produce green hydrogen, and it's not likely to ever become cheaper than hydrogen from natural gas, unless we tax natural gas heavily because of its environmental (and some health) effects. But mostly, there are already many sectors that use dirty hydrogen and a few where green hydrogen would really help the environment that we don't need to invent new usages for it such as transportation: We have the capacity to produce only a tiny fraction of the dirty hydrogen we already use, we probably won't be able to produce all that we consume for at least a few decades, even though it will become cheaper to produce. Just look at the volume of hydrogen we currently use, the volume we might be using for cement making, steel foundries and maybe other industrial usages, and the little fart of green hydrogen we currently produce. Even a 100% doubling of production next year would mean 2 farts instead of 1. OK, puffs.
Biohydrogen can be produced from green algae found in swamps to biotechnology laboratories to further provide interim products for QHSE storage, ecosystems and commerce (monetization). Biohydrogen can generate income and improve the economy for those who own a few acres of land. Research on growing algae in swamps and undisturbed jungles.
3 problems. 1) storgae. 2) still run on a highly complicated hydrogen engine (high maintained engine). 3) low efficient comparing to the electric motor.
I dont think production of energy is problem, the clean one, problem is storage so far. So I would rather have PV panels on the roof with good cheap long lasting high density storage then create something that can explode in your backyard.
At least, I haven’t heard about any news about a hydrogen car exploding like EVs.
This figure of 250L may be at 1 atmosphere at 20 degrees Celsius (21 grams per panel per day). So nothing close to what is required to run a car.
Few problems will arise here. Insurance for your house would probably go up because you essentially have a potential hazardous installation at home. Next to that is you have to choose your available space for solar or hydrogen production. Unless the panel is switchable between those two options.
While all new technologies are impressive most homes aren't suitable and need modifications or best is to build a new one with all new technologies in mind.
Great, now think about ways to make it work.
It's no different from having a gas line in your home. Many have those and it's proven to be safe. Hydrogen would be no more of a risk, even far less because there are no long lines involved.
If u think nothing is possible then even living is not possible.
It's silly to think insurance for your home would go up if you installed these panels. There is plenty of space to install these panels on the roof of your garage, house, carport, patio, Shed, and in your backyard while having space for solar panels and even solar heater panels. The modifications to your home will be minimal - you just install the panels.
@@ent1311 yes it could. If I did this in my country I have to get approval from the government and it has to be company build equipment. This would also have to be insured, safety checked regularly. We're not allowed to randomly install self-built equipment. It has to be approved. Not only for your own safety but also for others.
my question is how are they separating the oxygen from the hydrogen after electrolysis?
Any solar panel can be used to generate hydrogen. You don't need a special panel for that.
I hope you realise that hydrogen cars are... Electric!
When I was 12 I got a chemistry set for Christmas. One of the experiments was making hydrogen. Fortunately it just made a small explosion and fire. I was told not to do those experiments in the house any more.
There is a much better solution. Just use your PV system to charge your EV. Way more efficient. Even my small 6.2 kWpeak PV system generates more than 40 kWh per day from late spring to summer, which is enough for 200 km driving per day
Great idea! I'll just plan to walk the other six months of the year.
@@SeattlePioneer I don’t live off-grid, I don’t need to walk
YES, SO I HAVE 2 VERY IMP QUESTION TO THIS.
1. How is the govt and coperations gonna respond to this???
2. How will the company benifit after market saturation???
H needs to compressed and stored in high pressure contained for use .
Then need filling equipment to use in cars and trucks and regulator for home use.
Natural gas is better for the next 10-20 years at least as 98% of these ideas never work as hyped.
Any system that enables us to make our own energy for *FREE* will never be allowed to be commercially available. Trust me.
When I was a baby engineer, I worked in the chemical process industry. Enormous chemical plants. Acres and acres of process equipment and hundreds of kilometres of piping. The most dangerous thing on those plant sites were the hydrogen lines and process vessels.
I would tend to shy away from home production of hydrogen…
Hydrogen production and storage is governed by the statutes of hazardous/lethal materials.
Basically an upscaled version of an ionic membrane dehumidifier, currently used in sensitive electronic enclosures that need a reduced moisture environment.
Sure, but the energy companies won't be able to sell you their hydrogen, so it will never happen.
Just use solar power straight to your electrolysis. Many people have done this for decades. In three months you can generate enough to store for the winter assuming you use fuel cell car and furl cell home in cold climate.
I think........the governments will not want this approach as they are unable to make tax receipts from the free energy created. I agree with the approach but how do we get around the lack of tax receipts currently enjoyed by the governments of the world? Personally, EV vehicles are a short term step to hydrogen........but governments will not want people making their own hydrogen.
If my sums are correct 250 litres of hydrogen is equivalent in energy to 77 ml of gasoline. My car has a 40 litre tank which would take 520 days to fill up with your setup. Hydrogen has a high energy density by mass but a very low energy density by volume. Hydrogen makes some sense as a long term energy storage medium for a power grid dominated by non-dispatchable (ie not controllable) renewables such as wind and solar as it will hold energy longer than batteries and more efficient alternatives such as pumped hydro or compressed air and heat storage are either already well exploited or prohibitively expensive. But even there the efficiency to produce hydrogen from electricity is about 60% and the highest efficiency today to convert it back into electricity (either a fuel cell or combined cycle gas turbine power plant) is about 60% the round trip efficiency is only 0.6x0.6= 0.36 or 36% not including the loss of energy for storing and transporting. This compares to a round trip efficiency of 99% for lithium ion batteries which explains why hydrogen makes zero sense as a fuel for cars.
I need 100 or those to have enough Energy for Home! Unless they cost $100 each... than we may try them out.
Hi Chris, is there a way to get hydrogen shipped to you or anything like this unit that can make a useful amount of fuel? My buyers bought a Lyriq and were so impressed on the deal they got....... they didn't realize we are in Indiana and the nearest station is in Quebec or LA, It's a really comical story to say the least!! I would love to have a few minutes to pick your brain if you would be so kind. Thanks!
The only being where this is handy is with cat litter...it's CALLED LITRES . AS IN LITRES WHICH DESCRIBES A VOLUME THAT VOLUME IS ON LITRES AS IN LITRES .
I have a nice home IC generator that is 7,500 watts. It can use gasoline or LPG. So I wonder if it can use Hydrogen? If so, it would be one way to charge a battery bank. The other way I see is using fuel cells which require a source of hydrogen. If this could be done with this technology it would be great.
Using solar panels to make hydrogen to run a generator to charge a battery bank would be a very inefficient use of the energy produced by the solar panel. It would be far more efficient to use the solar panels to charge the battery and use the money you saved (by not buying a hydrogen plant, storage system etc...) to buy a bigger battery.
check out Mike Strizki's Hydrogen House Project he uses nickel metal hydride to store hydrogen.
@@VenturaIT "check out Mike Strizki's Hydrogen House Project" Ok, I checked it out. His 40kW of solar power (at least 70 large pv panels) is massive. The average US household uses around 30 kWh of electricity per day, which would require 5 kW to 8.5 kW solar system (depending on sun exposure) to offset 100%. So his system would power well over FIVE average (non-hydrogen) homes and allow charging an EV as well at each home. Without needing the huge underground storage tank and all the pumps, compressors, and controls shown in his photos. Oh, and isn't NiMH just a battery chemistry? You mean he's storing his solar power in batteries, like everybody else?
OY! And this is supposed to convince me?
If you can repeat your comment, I can repeat mine! (Apologies to the others reading this!)
@@youtubemakesmedothis7280That's not his house that's his first customer's house. He has all kinds of projects and smaller versions available. You can ask him if you have any questions about his projects and products.
@@youtubemakesmedothis7280 And you are wrong about the EV charging requirements:
Tesla Model charging efficiencies
Tesla Model
Energy Required To Charge Battery (k Wh)
End Charge Of Battery (k Wh)
Efficiency (percentage)
Model 3 69.598 kWh* 62.047 kWh 87.83%
Model 3 Long Range 86.073 kWh* 76.577 kWh 87.60%
Model 3 Performance 94.242 kWh** 80.818 kWh 83.39%
Model S 114.054 kWh** 98.267 kWh 83.93%
Model S Plaid 116.344 kWh** 99.287 kWh 82.82%
Model X 114.97 kWh** 99.976 kWh 85.00%
Model X Plaid 114.882 kWh* 102.829 kWh*** 88.28%
Model Y Long Range 91.115 kWh* 80.708 kWh 87.11%
Model Y Performance 92.213 kWh** 81.052 kWh 86.23%
*Based on model year 2022, the closest model listed by the EPA.
**Based on model year 2021, the closest model listed by the EPA.
***Based on the 2021 Performance model, the closest model listed by the EPA.
(from energysage)
For a realistic and practical prospective, the Toyota Mirai hydrogen fuel cell car needs approximately 62000 litres of gaseous hydrogen, approximately 5kg, to travel around 350 miles. Both those hydrogen figures are very much temperature dependent but 1000 litres of hydrogen gas weighs 82 grams at zero degrees Celsius, hence the enormous amount by volume required. In order to carry that amount of hydrogen the two onboard tanks are charged to around 500 bars, though the initial transfer pressure will be nearer to 700+ bar.
Personally, I think that’s a ridiculous proposition for day to day transport and certainly wouldn’t want to sit myself and / or my family anywhere near it.
What do small hydrogen cell cost? Direct ethanol fuel cells are quite expensive and huge. I wanted to look into ones for robotics, but also for UPS (backup energy) or mobile energy for a RV. These are all much smaller than for running a car, but it's expensive. I wonder if hydrogen ones are already cheaper to produce.
Hydrogen fuel cells have existed for a long time. They are about the size of a water heater. The problem has been having a source of Hydrogen. This could be it.
The toyota h two engine and spreading my own hydrogen at home is a dream of mine as well
Are we talking liters of hydrogen gas or liquid? 250 liters of hydrogen gas is nothing. That would be completely worthless. 250 liters of liquid hydrogen would be very useful, but also completely impossible with the power of the solar panels shown. I’m calling BS on this thing. Maybe someone got their facts wrong.
250 liters of hydrogen at standard conditions is roughly 21 grams, which has same amount of energy as about 75 milliliters of gasoline. In other words, the output equals about 7 US gallons of gasoline per YEAR, assuming excellent weather every day, and it doesn't break, and assuming it actually works that well. The cost for the whole system can not ever get close to the price of conventional solar panels, as handling hydrogen is much more complicated and difficult.
I'm sure very soon there will be a device The size of a shoe box that can run a house for a 100 years
Has anyone ever heard of the Hindenburg or the Space Shuttle? Why would anyone want to play with such a dangerous and volatile gas?
You don't have to use compressed hydrogen, there has been gas/hydrogen hybrid kits for years. They just electrolyze the hydrogen from distilled water. They are about $1000-2000.
Love hydrogen makes a lovely bang and you can fill balloons with it😅
Why on earth would You want to produce hydrogen at home, when You could save excess energy into a battery bank with 85% roundtrip efficiency?
If the cost vs benefit is profitable, the big energy companies will buy the patents and lock them away. If the inventors refuse to sell, they will end up like Stanley Meyer. Thorium Molten Salt Reactors are the best way to reduce the cost of energy to the point that other tech. can break through that is even better.
storing up the hydrogen seems to be a major issue.
"Oh, the humanity!"
Solar panel will go opsolit soon. We have the knowladge and the technology to produce electricity from thin air.
Solar and galactic electromagnetic FLUX
Hhehe….
Yeah….
Solution1: Lithium-ion batteries
Drive car, park at home, solar panel charges battery. (what, 85-95% effective at best?)
Solution2:
Drive car, park at home, solar panel converts power to hydrogen, then converts solar to compress hydrogen, then converts solar to refill car, car drives away. (what 30% effective at best?)
Souns promising, but how does the H2 produced by electrolysis get stored in pressurizied containers that one can use in a vehicle or in the home?
you are behind the times... check out Mike Strizki's Hydrogen House Project he uses nickel metal hydride to store hydrogen.
@@VenturaIT "check out Mike Strizki's Hydrogen House Project" Ok, I checked it out. His 40kW of solar power (at least 70 large pv panels) is massive. The average US household uses around 30 kWh of electricity per day, which would require 5 kW to 8.5 kW solar system (depending on sun exposure) to offset 100%. So his system would power well over FIVE average (non-hydrogen) homes and allow charging an EV as well at each home. Without needing the huge underground storage tank and all the pumps, compressors, and controls shown in his photos. Oh, and isn't NiMH just a battery chemistry? You mean he's storing his solar power in batteries, like everybody else?
OY! And this is supposed to convince me?
@@youtubemakesmedothis7280The 40kw that you are talking about is not his, that's his first customer's house. His house is different... probably more storage and less solar. The amount of solar and tanks probably depends on how much solar you have. The problem is that solar doesn't work at night or in the clouds or winter very well... so the hydrogen fills that in. He says that very clearly. But don't ask me about his projects and products, ask him. Also you are wrong about the EV charging requirements:
Tesla Model charging efficiencies
Tesla Model
Energy Required To Charge Battery (k Wh)
End Charge Of Battery (k Wh)
Efficiency (percentage)
Model 3 69.598 kWh* 62.047 kWh 87.83%
Model 3 Long Range 86.073 kWh* 76.577 kWh 87.60%
Model 3 Performance 94.242 kWh** 80.818 kWh 83.39%
Model S 114.054 kWh** 98.267 kWh 83.93%
Model S Plaid 116.344 kWh** 99.287 kWh 82.82%
Model X 114.97 kWh** 99.976 kWh 85.00%
Model X Plaid 114.882 kWh* 102.829 kWh*** 88.28%
Model Y Long Range 91.115 kWh* 80.708 kWh 87.11%
Model Y Performance 92.213 kWh** 81.052 kWh 86.23%
*Based on model year 2022, the closest model listed by the EPA.
**Based on model year 2021, the closest model listed by the EPA.
***Based on the 2021 Performance model, the closest model listed by the EPA.
(from energysage)
Coolist on a island permaculture living and hydrogen.
How much heat in BTUs would this give a home assisted heating ???
>
Since it's a solar based system, you can use all your hydrogen for heating in the summer.
Sorry, no hydrogen available during the winter because solar is negligible.
Thanks@@SeattlePioneer
Before you get enough hydrogen the solar panel already killed you
Solid state batteries > Hydrogen
awesome. just wondering it some corporation will block it with a patent or something. on the big scale, the Japanese are already on it. fission and fusion will create all the H we need. and Toyota has the Murai. we haven't found clean batteries yet...
All energy stored on a suny day from these PV and Electrolyzer is 3000 BTU/day or 0.88 kwh/d heat energy or 880 Wh/d heat. Efficiency is extremely low. It will take 45 days to produce 1 kg H2.
This is looking for a technology when a solution already exists that has been shown to work in the 1970's in France and 1990's in the US by Stanley Meyer, I can only assume that the electrolysis they used was based on pulsed electronics probably using resonant frequencies of Hydrogen or Oxygen or some sort of mathematical transform
In super dry regions you can send up a high altitude weather balloon to collect hydrogen
HYDROGEN POWERED MUSCLE TRUCK; this is the name of a video everybody who thinks hydrogen cars are dangerous or expensive need to see ..........rich electric car makers want you to think EV's are the only thing but that is not how humans work. also how have i not seen your channel till now ? this thing looks awesome .i remember hearing about a load of hydrogen cars with solar stations from honda some years ago that never materialised , i hope this has more meat.
Probably a stupid question, but if you split water into hydrogen and oxygen, aren't you essentially destroying water? And my understanding is that water isn't being created in nature, so over time if this became the dominant fuel, wouldn't there be a risk of destroying too much water? I understand water is quite abundant here on Earth, but I'm talking about long-term, centuries from now.
You can create synthetic water
when hydrogen is used in a fuel cell or burned it combines back with oxygen to form water
ok thanks you all
We could 'destroy' water for 1 million years and the amount would not be 1% of current water supply. It is nearly unfathomable the amount of water that exists.
So even if it 'used' up the water (it doesnt) it would have 0 impact on the total supply.
Water scarcity is just location based, that is all. Even then, with unlimited energy there is unlimited water from air !
A byproduct of hydrogen vehicles is water.
Is that 250Lts of liquid hydrogen (ie -253C to liquify) or 250Lts of gas at one atmosphere, and how is the H2 stored ???? Interested on the answers
California will have the nation's first hydrogen hub after federal officials announced a $12.6 billion agreement on July 17. It is funded by the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law signed by President Biden in 2021. It aims to produce hydrogen for vehicles, electricity, etc. It is expected to reduce fossil fuel use by 2 million metric tons annually and create up to 220,000 jobs.
The hydrogen hub will be developed and funded by the U.S. Department of Energy. The project aims to help California achieve carbon neutrality by 2045. More than 10 sites will be built to produce renewable hydrogen for the ports of Long Beach, Oakland, and Los Angeles.
California will have over 60 hydrogen fueling stations for electric trucks and buses and help in transitioning several power plants to hydrogen. The project will span the entire state.
The announcement comes after California was also selected in 2023 as the recipient of a $1.2 billion grant for the development of renewable hydrogen.
Congratulations taxpayers, Joe Biden has just added another $13.8 billion dollars to the national debt. Hint: Congress has no money and will need to borrow this money. Forty nine states will get no benefit - but will end up helping to pay for this project.
It helps to have friends in the White House and Congress when you want a project funded in your district.
This US Treasury debt money of $13.8 billion dollars will cost US taxpayers approximately $600 million dollars in yearly interest payments. Over a 30 year period the total interest payments will roughly equal $18 billion dollars. Taxpayers will still be on the hook for the original $13.8 billion, since Congress will only fund the interest on the money it borrows.
Congress will repay the original $13.8 billion dollars by borrowing another $13.8 billion and repaying the original loan. The cycle keeps repeating forever. That is why the national taxpayer debt is now over $35 trillion dollars.
In 2026 US taxpayers will start paying over $1 trillion dollars yearly in interest payments on the national debt. Expect this amount to increase every year for as long as you live or the USA goes bankrupt.
You can run a car for an hour with a mixture of water and tablespoon of baking soda in a plastic container pullout the petrol tube into the carb and put in the tube from from the plastic container which is sealed and the hydrogen will run the car a bit sluggish it just needs refining