Nope just looks like a rework of gosha with no transcendence on It's commentry larger than providing the cultural fetishm to the hypebeasts she's designing for . It's not new It's not revolutionary.
We are all entitled to an opinion, however I really don’t know how she designs for hypebeasts. Can’t envision a hypebeast wearing massive boxy loafers or a red satin suit
Designers shouldn't have to rely on their press kit for fully expressing their vision. It transforms traditional media into gatekeepers, essentially reinforcing the exclusivity even beyond pricing issues. If your intended audience *needs* to read your press kit to understand your collection, you're just a shitty designer.
I had no idea Martine grew up in Clapham Common that’s pretty close to where I grew up. Finally got my first Martine piece during the sales, a pair of flared trousers that I’m in love with! Definitely gonna invest in some more MR pieces in the future.
Not exactly sure where she grew up but it must’ve been near Clapham Common because she was always there. When I find out I’ll relay the info back to you 👌🏿 Congrats on the first Martine piece btw.
Great video and now I miss London! Grew up there in the 80's so resonates but I don't think MR is too nostalgic, these clothes do feel like their own "new" thing but carrying the spirit of these memories if that makes sense. I also got a silk version of the clown scarf as a moment of the chaos!
i just want to thank you for the informative videos that you create and for sharing your knowledge taking in account how difficult is to make expressive statements in fashion without them sounding biased. love from argentina
You’re totally right! Don’t know why I didn’t think of that when I saw the pieces 🤦🏿♂️ Maybe she’s also conveniently used it in a tongue in cheek way as it can double as an actual Martine rose logo.
Possibly cool detail about the ‘Promising Britain’ piece is the 12 stars. The EU flag has way more stars on it nowadays, as every star stands for 1 member state of the EU. The shirt has 12 stars, the EU had 12 member states since 1986, which is kinda cool since the collection is ‘80s/‘90s inspired.
LMAO as soon as you started to talk about the rave references i immediately thought of that part of her cutting room floor interview you clipped at the end
This collection left me wanting more from MR, it was a step ahead of creating a deeper meaning in our modern fashion. Thank you for linking HFT! I joined the group on FB and was surprised how nice almost everyone is!
The ® symbol I always thought to be the copyright symbol and I didn't really get why it fit in to her very London aesthetic, other than maybe it being popular in the digital age along with the TM symbol, but I like the collection nonetheless
the average office worker character is so great because the shirts underneath the suits represent what they turn into in the night, once they take off their workjackets. it really takes into account Rose’s attention to little things.
I loved this collection. She knows her cuts as well as her medium that's why she always delivers consistently. Politics is a gray area for some people but if you pull it off correctly, the collection can be done well. P.S. sorry I'm late lol
Interesting analysis yet again 👍 Coming from that era I disagree with a few details if that's ok :) The 80's with regards to digital, during the 80's the notion of digital (Apple, IBM, Casio watches, Walkman etc) was very much regarded as very iconic to the 70's not the 80's although of course it crossed over. A lot of the classic fonts for example that we regard as iconic of digital imagery today are all very 70's (Casio, Disco, Sega, Atari etc). So I don't think that R~circle thing is a digital reference as you mentioned. The term 'Rave' also was not in common usage until right at the very tail end of the 80's (summer of 1989 to be precise) and even then it was more common to call it Chicago House initially, to House, and finally to Hardcore and eventually Rave, it was a fast change of terminology that sometimes blurred, but the common idea of what we regard as Rave nowadays is very much synonymous with the very late 80's and more so the 90's, and not the early 80's (as the show notes say is the period that she took influence from). Likewise the whole Air Max thing wasn't an 80's thing at all to be honest. The early 80's casual subculture that came off from the football terraces was a very European branded phenomena (ie very predominately Adidas) with additions of Puma, Fila, Diadora, Ellesse etc, there was an almost identity with it being European brands so certainly Nike was not in the UK scene. It was (the casuals subculture) the result of English football fans travelling to European away games Italy, Germany etc and discovering and bringing back those brands from the continent. People nowadays don't fully appreciate how dominant adidas was over here in Europe and Nike in the US in that period, almost I'd say 80/90%+ for each side. It's only when the initial rave scene in the 90's left the fields/warehouses of it's early period (1989-1992) and entered a watered down more commercial club scene later on in about 1992/3 where the scene split into different genres (techno, trance, drum & base, house, garage) and in particular the last of those three (d&b, house, garage) did the idea of dressing up and posing etc enter (with a 'slight' designer posing too at the time D&G, Versace etc, the champagne/coke crowd) and it is only then that the Nike Air Max came in, and the whole idea of having/wearing clean white Air Max'es all came from that posing notion which had entered that break away part of the scene. This of course was all counter to the early rave ethos (of shared music, races, and being into the music/scene/experience and which was almost anti fashion in a way with baggy unbranded clothes over posing, designer clothes, named trainers etc) and this is what the techno, trance, psychedelic trance scenes all carried on. Also as another small side note, the show notes mentioned Martine Rose taking influence from the early 80's UK street cultures, and that was the last period I think when we had so many dominant, distinct and super interesting sub cultures all at the same period (late punk, new romantics, goths, skinheads, casuals) so its a slight shame that she never delved into those far more interesting influences aside from those two pieces which were influenced by (casuals) football tops. Being picky the 80's casuals didn't tend to wear football tops anyway :) they kind of wore Lacoste, Fila, Ellesse, Diadora, Sergio Tacchini, Adidas tops, Farah trousers, Levis etc instead.
Good analysis. Always love your detailed comments they keep me on my toes haha which is how it should be. So basically: 1.) there was most definitely a cross over of the digital era into the 80s 2.) while the collection was heavily inspired by the 80s, not every single last detail was. I think this is a case of “over-analysis” on your part. Martine Rose has an ongoing collaboration with Nike right now so of course they weren’t going out with Adidas sneakers on the runway which of course would’ve worked better for this collection as Adidas was way more trendy and popular in Europe than Nike in the 80s as you said. So me saying the ravers were easy to spot is because In terms of what people wear to raves today it’s all white Air Force 1s and Air Max Nikes. So while a lot of the references were from the 80s not all of them were and she had to compromise due to the collaboration with Nike. 3.) once again, even though the football fans wore ellesse, Lacoste etc and later on even moved to brands like Burberry and stone island etc. This is a Martine Rose collection, so unless she was collaborating with one of those brands, the only obvious way she could put across the character of a football fan was to put them in football jerseys which is convenient as she has the collab with Nike. 4.) I’m most definitely aware a lot of the references from the collection came from the tail end of the 80s. This is proven as at the end of the video I played an interview where Martine Rose herself was talking about her experience specifically in 1989. This is an interview I went over many times before making this video along with a lot of other interviews with Martine describing her experience during various other years. However 1989 is still the 80s. And to prove my point further in the video I did quite clearly state in the video that the inspiration came from the 80s and 90s at points but I said the 80s most of the time as that was what was on the show notes
@@FashionRoadman Ah cheers Ayo for your detailed response 👍 I always appreciate your time/analysis in your videos and responses. Yea as you say slight shame she collab'ed with Nike when there were perhaps other better suited brands (Adidas) that would have given a greater cohesiveness to her collection/message. Oh I switched off your video before the end interview :) Just listened to it now. Super interesting, thanks for adding it on. I went to the same Raindance Raves that she speaks about there 😍 so nice bit of nostalgia for me :)) I might have been dancing/E'ing alongside Martine for all I know, kitted out in my Dubble Bubble t-shirt, whistle, water bottle, vaseline for the chest, alien head glow in the dark necklace and Issey Miyake bucket hat (my fashion student element xd until years later when some git nicked it off my head one night in Club UK Wandsworth 😫 maybe as I allegedly ;) might have been on a weird speed/acid combo that night so wasn't fully aware of my surroundings ~
Is it that bad that Brand’s show there take on politics, I personally like her take on the people of that we see and how she turned it into beautiful fashion. Also great video.
I find that the need to put the discussion on the press kit is a bit lazy. Honestly, if your clothes are good, I always find it weakening if you fell the need to reinforce the message with actual words. That being said, I love how she restructured stereotypes without adopting 80s shitty tailoring. I disagree a bit that the tailoring is similarly boxy = they are both boxy; but in very different ways. Martine Rose looks nice, actual 80s people just looked like proto-sainfeld. Pretty nice that you explained a bit of the background on the logomania! I'd get a pop filter for the voiceover audio (when you're editing); you're blowing on the mic a bit. Good video, Ayo! Undercover was better tho
Undercover was amazing but I think a lot of people are just extremely excited about it due to the introduction of more tailoring this season. You’re so right about the pop filter by the way
The problem with bigger houses like Prada and Gucci is that their clientele is so wide and diverse that any political direction they take will be a disaster which is why they try stay away from it. However, Dior did it with feminism and it didn’t affect them one bit.
No they won't. Art has proved that there is always a space for aestheticism even in times where vanguard thrives. As a matter of fact, to the general audience, aestheticist art resist MUCH more to the test of time. Just look at how everyone loves Monet, but most people still don't fucking get Picasso. Pandering often reverts to fetishization of the "struggling" artist, which Gucci could 100% pretend to be. Not to mention that for every artist working to create a statement on the present, there's one selling delusional nostalgia of an unreachable era. Gucci is great at that lie. Prada on the other hand has already quite a bit going in their tech side, they are 2 steps away from just embracing empty ecology and/or the fetish of the technique.
For me that's understandable, I hate the current state of politics, be it left or right wing, i love using fashion to express myself but I don't feel right delving more into politics where currently, ice cream, kids cartoons, razors, museums, literally everything is political, now nothing is wrong with being political but when every single thing has a political edge to it I just want to escape it, if fashion is one of my escapes I don't want to be bombarded with more identity politics, if not every single thing was so political these days I wouldn't mind if something had a political edge to it, but when I literally can't escape constant politics in places I believe they shouldn't be in sometimes, it gets much and I don't want to further support that, but that's simply my take on it and how I feel. I long for the day where there's a middle ground more people can agree on or at least bring people from loads of different backgrounds together.
Was this collection your cup of tea?
I don't drink tea, you British supremacist.
Lool😂
yes !!!
Nope just looks like a rework of gosha with no transcendence on It's commentry larger than providing the cultural fetishm to the hypebeasts she's designing for . It's not new It's not revolutionary.
We are all entitled to an opinion, however I really don’t know how she designs for hypebeasts. Can’t envision a hypebeast wearing massive boxy loafers or a red satin suit
Vogue Runway and WWD need to release the show notes with the photos of the looks. It really helps understanding the designer's visions.
I got the pictures from Vogue runway but yeah I agree. If they released the show notes it would be a game changer.
Andrew Sorry, I was talking about the show notes *with* the pictures that we usually get.
Parmell Jasmin Agh yes my bad
Designers shouldn't have to rely on their press kit for fully expressing their vision. It transforms traditional media into gatekeepers, essentially reinforcing the exclusivity even beyond pricing issues. If your intended audience *needs* to read your press kit to understand your collection, you're just a shitty designer.
innewyorkimillyrock that’s a very good point, I just need them for the sake of reviews to make sure I’m not missing any details but I get your point
I had no idea Martine grew up in Clapham Common that’s pretty close to where I grew up. Finally got my first Martine piece during the sales, a pair of flared trousers that I’m in love with! Definitely gonna invest in some more MR pieces in the future.
Not exactly sure where she grew up but it must’ve been near Clapham Common because she was always there. When I find out I’ll relay the info back to you 👌🏿
Congrats on the first Martine piece btw.
fell in love with the "water" looking pant. fucking gorgeous
Great video and now I miss London! Grew up there in the 80's so resonates but I don't think MR is too nostalgic, these clothes do feel like their own "new" thing but carrying the spirit of these memories if that makes sense. I also got a silk version of the clown scarf as a moment of the chaos!
i just want to thank you for the informative videos that you create and for sharing your knowledge taking in account how difficult is to make expressive statements in fashion without them sounding biased.
love from argentina
Thanks, I really appreciate it 🙏🏿
Broski you should rock more colors! The contrast between your skin and that light blue is great!
Obsessed with Martine Rose, she is so inspiring! And thank u for this!! u always deliver
Glad you enjoyed the video!
The R with a circle around it is the registered trademark symbol.
You’re totally right! Don’t know why I didn’t think of that when I saw the pieces 🤦🏿♂️
Maybe she’s also conveniently used it in a tongue in cheek way as it can double as an actual Martine rose logo.
I think that still aligns with the emergence of logomania in 80s culture.
Great video, love the analysis 🖤 Martine clip at the end is fab⚡️
learning so much from you!
I’m glad 👌🏿
Possibly cool detail about the ‘Promising Britain’ piece is the 12 stars. The EU flag has way more stars on it nowadays, as every star stands for 1 member state of the EU. The shirt has 12 stars, the EU had 12 member states since 1986, which is kinda cool since the collection is ‘80s/‘90s inspired.
This is actually very true 👌🏿
Thanks for exposing me to an amazing designer I really love your channel
Glad you liked the video
LMAO as soon as you started to talk about the rave references i immediately thought of that part of her cutting room floor interview you clipped at the end
Looool
This collection left me wanting more from MR, it was a step ahead of creating a deeper meaning in our modern fashion.
Thank you for linking HFT! I joined the group on FB and was surprised how nice almost everyone is!
Yeah, it’s a great group
Really love your deep dives into collections that Speak to you
Thank you I really appreciate it
Very interesting to discover Martin Rose work.. Good video 👍
Thanks 🙏🏿
I love the football player look. There's just something about the fits that I absolutely enjoy!
They look amazing 👌🏿
The ® symbol I always thought to be the copyright symbol and I didn't really get why it fit in to her very London aesthetic, other than maybe it being popular in the digital age along with the TM symbol, but I like the collection nonetheless
the average office worker character is so great because the shirts underneath the suits represent what they turn into in the night, once they take off their workjackets. it really takes into account Rose’s attention to little things.
100% and that’s why we love Martine’s work
I loved this collection. She knows her cuts as well as her medium that's why she always delivers consistently. Politics is a gray area for some people but if you pull it off correctly, the collection can be done well.
P.S. sorry I'm late lol
Haha better late than never
Interesting analysis yet again 👍 Coming from that era I disagree with a few details if that's ok :)
The 80's with regards to digital, during the 80's the notion of digital (Apple, IBM, Casio watches, Walkman etc) was very much regarded as very iconic to the 70's not the 80's although of course it crossed over. A lot of the classic fonts for example that we regard as iconic of digital imagery today are all very 70's (Casio, Disco, Sega, Atari etc). So I don't think that R~circle thing is a digital reference as you mentioned.
The term 'Rave' also was not in common usage until right at the very tail end of the 80's (summer of 1989 to be precise) and even then it was more common to call it Chicago House initially, to House, and finally to Hardcore and eventually Rave, it was a fast change of terminology that sometimes blurred, but the common idea of what we regard as Rave nowadays is very much synonymous with the very late 80's and more so the 90's, and not the early 80's (as the show notes say is the period that she took influence from). Likewise the whole Air Max thing wasn't an 80's thing at all to be honest. The early 80's casual subculture that came off from the football terraces was a very European branded phenomena (ie very predominately Adidas) with additions of Puma, Fila, Diadora, Ellesse etc, there was an almost identity with it being European brands so certainly Nike was not in the UK scene. It was (the casuals subculture) the result of English football fans travelling to European away games Italy, Germany etc and discovering and bringing back those brands from the continent. People nowadays don't fully appreciate how dominant adidas was over here in Europe and Nike in the US in that period, almost I'd say 80/90%+ for each side.
It's only when the initial rave scene in the 90's left the fields/warehouses of it's early period (1989-1992) and entered a watered down more commercial club scene later on in about 1992/3 where the scene split into different genres (techno, trance, drum & base, house, garage) and in particular the last of those three (d&b, house, garage) did the idea of dressing up and posing etc enter (with a 'slight' designer posing too at the time D&G, Versace etc, the champagne/coke crowd) and it is only then that the Nike Air Max came in, and the whole idea of having/wearing clean white Air Max'es all came from that posing notion which had entered that break away part of the scene. This of course was all counter to the early rave ethos (of shared music, races, and being into the music/scene/experience and which was almost anti fashion in a way with baggy unbranded clothes over posing, designer clothes, named trainers etc) and this is what the techno, trance, psychedelic trance scenes all carried on.
Also as another small side note, the show notes mentioned Martine Rose taking influence from the early 80's UK street cultures, and that was the last period I think when we had so many dominant, distinct and super interesting sub cultures all at the same period (late punk, new romantics, goths, skinheads, casuals) so its a slight shame that she never delved into those far more interesting influences aside from those two pieces which were influenced by (casuals) football tops. Being picky the 80's casuals didn't tend to wear football tops anyway :) they kind of wore Lacoste, Fila, Ellesse, Diadora, Sergio Tacchini, Adidas tops, Farah trousers, Levis etc instead.
Good analysis. Always love your detailed comments they keep me on my toes haha which is how it should be.
So basically:
1.) there was most definitely a cross over of the digital era into the 80s
2.) while the collection was heavily inspired by the 80s, not every single last detail was. I think this is a case of “over-analysis” on your part.
Martine Rose has an ongoing collaboration with Nike right now so of course they weren’t going out with Adidas sneakers on the runway which of course would’ve worked better for this collection as Adidas was way more trendy and popular in Europe than Nike in the 80s as you said. So me saying the ravers were easy to spot is because In terms of what people wear to raves today it’s all white Air Force 1s and Air Max Nikes. So while a lot of the references were from the 80s not all of them were and she had to compromise due to the collaboration with Nike.
3.) once again, even though the football fans wore ellesse, Lacoste etc and later on even moved to brands like Burberry and stone island etc.
This is a Martine Rose collection, so unless she was collaborating with one of those brands, the only obvious way she could put across the character of a football fan was to put them in football jerseys which is convenient as she has the collab with Nike.
4.) I’m most definitely aware a lot of the references from the collection came from the tail end of the 80s. This is proven as at the end of the video I played an interview where Martine Rose herself was talking about her experience specifically in 1989. This is an interview I went over many times before making this video along with a lot of other interviews with Martine describing her experience during various other years. However 1989 is still the 80s. And to prove my point further in the video I did quite clearly state in the video that the inspiration came from the 80s and 90s at points but I said the 80s most of the time as that was what was on the show notes
@@FashionRoadman Ah cheers Ayo for your detailed response 👍
I always appreciate your time/analysis in your videos and responses. Yea as you say slight shame she collab'ed with Nike when there were perhaps other better suited brands (Adidas) that would have given a greater cohesiveness to her collection/message.
Oh I switched off your video before the end interview :) Just listened to it now. Super interesting, thanks for adding it on. I went to the same Raindance Raves that she speaks about there 😍 so nice bit of nostalgia for me :)) I might have been dancing/E'ing alongside Martine for all I know, kitted out in my Dubble Bubble t-shirt, whistle, water bottle, vaseline for the chest, alien head glow in the dark necklace and Issey Miyake bucket hat (my fashion student element xd until years later when some git nicked it off my head one night in Club UK Wandsworth 😫 maybe as I allegedly ;) might have been on a weird speed/acid combo that night so wasn't fully aware of my surroundings ~
Looool that’s hilarious, would’ve been iconic if you actually were partying with Martine
this is awesome, keep posting
Thanks a lot, appreciate the feedback
I love this!!!
This video is really excellent.
Merci
Aw thank you for the shoutout at the end too
❤️
Is it that bad that Brand’s show there take on politics, I personally like her take on the people of that we see and how she turned it into beautiful fashion. Also great video.
From time to time brands give their take on politics but it rarely happens at the larger fashion houses in the present day
The pants remind me of Dries Van Noten
Ending today on a good vid
Glad you feel that way
I find that the need to put the discussion on the press kit is a bit lazy. Honestly, if your clothes are good, I always find it weakening if you fell the need to reinforce the message with actual words. That being said, I love how she restructured stereotypes without adopting 80s shitty tailoring.
I disagree a bit that the tailoring is similarly boxy = they are both boxy; but in very different ways. Martine Rose looks nice, actual 80s people just looked like proto-sainfeld.
Pretty nice that you explained a bit of the background on the logomania!
I'd get a pop filter for the voiceover audio (when you're editing); you're blowing on the mic a bit.
Good video, Ayo!
Undercover was better tho
Undercover was amazing but I think a lot of people are just extremely excited about it due to the introduction of more tailoring this season.
You’re so right about the pop filter by the way
Nah the R is from team rocket
Loool, is this going to became a mad debate on what the R is? I’m loving this 😂
Brands getting political will become more common, Prada Gucci and the big houses will get left in the dust trying not to offend anyone lol
The problem with bigger houses like Prada and Gucci is that their clientele is so wide and diverse that any political direction they take will be a disaster which is why they try stay away from it.
However, Dior did it with feminism and it didn’t affect them one bit.
No they won't. Art has proved that there is always a space for aestheticism even in times where vanguard thrives. As a matter of fact, to the general audience, aestheticist art resist MUCH more to the test of time. Just look at how everyone loves Monet, but most people still don't fucking get Picasso. Pandering often reverts to fetishization of the "struggling" artist, which Gucci could 100% pretend to be. Not to mention that for every artist working to create a statement on the present, there's one selling delusional nostalgia of an unreachable era. Gucci is great at that lie.
Prada on the other hand has already quite a bit going in their tech side, they are 2 steps away from just embracing empty ecology and/or the fetish of the technique.
For me that's understandable, I hate the current state of politics, be it left or right wing, i love using fashion to express myself but I don't feel right delving more into politics where currently, ice cream, kids cartoons, razors, museums, literally everything is political, now nothing is wrong with being political but when every single thing has a political edge to it I just want to escape it, if fashion is one of my escapes I don't want to be bombarded with more identity politics, if not every single thing was so political these days I wouldn't mind if something had a political edge to it, but when I literally can't escape constant politics in places I believe they shouldn't be in sometimes, it gets much and I don't want to further support that, but that's simply my take on it and how I feel. I long for the day where there's a middle ground more people can agree on or at least bring people from loads of different backgrounds together.
Nice channel +subbed. Even though you shit on hedi tha god :(
Hahahaha got love for Hedi but he is becoming a one trick pony
The Fashion Archive 😑 yeah hard to swallow but true in a way
❤️