The Philosophy of Kreia: A Critical Examination of Star Wars
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
- The character Kreia from the game Knights of the Old Republic 2 is arguably one of the greatest female characters in gaming. However, despite her fame, much of her philosophy has been misunderstood due to the puzzling manner in which the game presents her backstory and motives. This video will serve both as an examination of Kreia's philosophy and her criticisms of the Star Wars universe as a whole.
Chris Avellone famously said in an interview that Knights of the Old Republic 2 was meant to question everything there had to be questioned about Star Wars. This video will be answering those questions.
This video has been five months in the making.
0:00 - Introduction
2:28 - The Jedi Code
3:56 - Jedi/Buddhist Philosophy comparison
5:10 - The Sith Code
6:24 - Nietzsche/Sith Philosophy Comparison
7:10 - The Duality of Kreia
8:25 - Atris's Path mirroring Kreia's Past
9:49 - Arren Kae's "Fall" from the Jedi Order
11:30 - Darth Traya's Origins
12:50 - Why Jedi Keep Falling to the Dark Side
17:50 - Anakin's Example
19:50 - Jolee Bindo's Rejection of Traditional Jedi teaching
21:05 - Luke's Conflict with the Code
21:52 - The Self-Destruction of Altruism
24:30 - On Jedi Training Children
26:20 - The Sith's Repeating Pattern
27:10 - Yuthura Ban's Story
29:12 - Anakin's Emotional Entrapment
32:18 - Master Morality
34:58 - The Emptiness of Revenge
37:50 - What Defines Kreia?
39:40 - The Ithorians vs Czerka Corporation
43:10 - Kreia's Iconic parable on Kindness/Cruelty
47:00 - Nar Shadda's Lessons in Manipulation
55:11 - A Lesson in Strength and Power
1:02:52 - Kreia's Motivation
1:04:47 - Jolee Bindo's parable of Master Hortath
1:07:12 - The Jedi Masters' Judgment of the Exile
1:09:02 - Kreia's Judgment of the Jedi Masters
1:09:34 - The Revelation of Atris' Fall
1:10:50 - Jedi/Sith Similarities
1:12:20 - Lightsabers' Symbolic Colours
1:13:50 - Corruption of the Dark Side
1:14:56 - The Weaknesses of Dependence on the Force
1:22:03 - Master Morality vs Slave Morality
1:26:00 - Why Kreia Hates the Force
1:28:53 - Free Will/Choice vs Fate/Destiny
1:35:42 - An Unsettling Recurrence of Events
1:37:00 - Kreia's Grand Schemes
1:41:28 - Name Symbolism
1:42:48 - The Significance of the Exile and Malachor
1:49:28 - Kreia's Final Wish
1:50:52 - Luke's Original Purpose
1:51:44 - Conclusion
![[柴犬ASMR]曼玉Manyu&小白Bai 毛发护理Spa asmr](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0TsXQ7z2Dh4/mqdefault.jpg)
If you still have questions about Star Wars, then I recommend you watch my video The Foundations of Star Wars that examines the nature of the Force. All answers are found there.
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ok.
ngl I've watched this video about 6-7 times
@@sam3nvb565 Welcome to the club as they say.
Wow, increíble tu vídeo. Amazing you work
Damn, your Star Wars videos are so good! I find myself rewatching them to appreciate them from time to time.
“This whole franchise is bullsh*t.”
- Kreia.
💀
Basically
Jolee would agree with this.
Kreia had visions of the sequel trilogy and just said “oh Hell nah”
@@Oliver-ld3ei Kreia tried to stop the Sequel Trilogy from happening but failed
They hired the perfect voice actor for her. She would have never worked if the voice acting was subpar.
She's so good I'm going to white knight and ask you to refer to her as a 'voice actress' .
@Minh Dang and you commenting on HIS comment to call him a loser is any better?
@@xJB1032x Wow, he deleted his comment? Nerd
@@zackosborn1731 not to be a prick here but these days the word 'actress' isn't really down with most female actors outside of award shows. You'd generally just refer to everyone as an actor (in English).
Her voice a little bit similar to Dragon Age Mythal
I love that quote: *"You have taken a complicated question, and you have trivialized it with your answer and lack of experience."*
Saying "you don't get it, dumbass" like an intellectual
Basically summarized the sequels
@@OGmemegenerator that would imply that ANYBODY involved in the sequels had enough intelligence to ask a question in the first place
@@OGmemegenerator Yawn
@@HoodedLord feel bad for the actors tho, you can tell most of them were just glad that it’s over.
Atton: "Explain something to me."
Kreia: "I have neither the will nor the years desired."
Shakespeare-tier insult right there.
Kreia : "...It's like pouring sand into his hands..."
Anakin : "I hate you !"
UzuRyu it’s over Anakin! I have the Sand Ground!
"You were the Chosen One! It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them; bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness! You were my brother, Anakin! I loved you!" -Obi-Wan Kenobi
@@VTVIGTV Anakin had the Higher Ground long before Obi-Wan had the high ground.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes. -An Absolute
Just imagining the Jedi Exile is Anakin, and Kreia trying to discuss philosophy through Prequel Anakin's thick skull ... quite amusing.
I've gotta say, that game was wayyyy ahead of it's time.
It is still ahead of this time...
The best Star Wars game !
As it turns out, it was way ahead of another timeline entirely. Because we've only gotten dumber, and weaker entries. Thus, it is actually, in reality, a product of an era we've left behind.
Is star wars kotor??
@@andresjim6490 Yes my friend, KoToR 2 specifically
In the grand scheme of things, Luke's character is an ode to humanity. Neither completely selfless or selfish, not overly powerful or wise and detached. Unbound by unattainable standards and dogmatic teachings and never ruled by greed or passion. He loved, he hated, he laughed, he cried, he suffered, he forgave, he LIVED. I wouldn't say he is beyond Jedi and Sith, not some holy mystic beyond light and dark. He has accepted his humanity, where both Jedi and Sith sought to detach themselves from it in different ways. He accepted the strength and weakness that come with humanity and simply strives to do his best, like most people in this world.
Legends Luke: force powers gooooo
The synthesis.
Wow, this comment should get more likes
Thats why imo Luke was the best jedi and is my top 2 favorite star wars characters
Until Disney absolutely obliterated him. Fuck the Last Jedi
I come back to this video every now and then and I still have the same conclusion every time: Kreia is one of the most brilliant people in the entire Star Wars universe.
And one of the most brilliant characters in fiction
Negative. She was the first to understand the ex machina the force represents, and for that she's cool, but curiosity took the best of her, it literally killed the cat, mind the pun. Yoda is the most brilliant, and I'm not his fanboy. The force is meant to circumvent the universe, so it is not needed once you pass the test it imposes. Kreia understand the same thing, but she remained "here" to get it. Translation = she just wanted to see it, as if the current life was the last opportunity to do it.
How is the force not needed when Yoda and Obi-wan became force ghosts? They're literally still enslaved by the Force.
The writers for the game needs a screenplay greenlight.
@@cybergothika6906 To be fair yoda got like 500+ years of meditation on her 😂
Funny that the Sith end up enslaved by the force, powerless without it. The Jedi are was consumed by fear and unease of the return of the Sith and are always aware of their own emotions. The Sith code ensures that a Sith will never be free and the Jedi code ensures a Jedi will never be at peace.
So well put.
trackts As much as I love the Star Wars universe, living in it would be a nightmare. You have the Jedi who by all intents and purposes are non humans who are discouraged to enjoy live and must strive to be emotionless, you have the Sith who become corrupted to the point that they loose themselves in their strive for power and destroy all they come across until they themselves are defeated, and all those not associated with the two factions who are at the mercy of them.
@@splintercell320 "We allow them to fight and dispose of each other under their illusion of religious and philosophical dominance, but what truly rules the galaxy is information."
- From SWTOR, the Imperial Agent story. (Paraphrased.)
The Imperial Agent story in SWTOR is literally the only thing which, for me, has rivaled KOTOR 2 in terms of elaborate storytelling.
Just as planned...
@@Lobsterwithinternet Im sure it was Tzeentch. What you planning next?
WHO UPLOADS A 2 HOUR VIDEO ABOUT KOTOR 2?
> *watches and enjoys entire video*
Kotor 2 was such a good game. Too bad la forced its release before it was finished
What is wonderful about our community though is that more than 10 years after the release of the game, it is still remembered and loved. People have spent months filling in the incomplete codes that the game has to create the completion mod. This mod allows for you to explore a few of the cut out content. I like swtor, but not nearly as much as kotor.
This is my third watch over multiple years.
That is what happens when you are presented a multifaced character and analyse her
Yeah, i was excited about kotor remake until it was canceled
The thing I always appreciated the most about KOTOR 2 is that it makes the Jedi and Sith look like two very limited understandings of what the Force is really supposed to be, like a child's best guess of how a massively complicated machine is supposed to work, and the entire point of Kreia was to show that there were many more ways to understand things, possibly infinite ways, and only choosing one shuts you off to all the others.
@@lordmunchkin8396 right? basically like ideologies.
naturally, if they split off the same thing, they would be extremes.
"you have taken a complicated question and divided into very simple paths" (or something like that)
is one of my favorite quote of Kreia, because she basically described Star Wars sense of of moral.
Everything needs to fit into the good vs bad mold and is more or less forced into being on either side, against their will most of time.
The force, if you truly think about it, is terrifying.
@@lordmunchkin8396
No, they are extreme interpretations created by the consequence of "balance" with the Force. There is no third path to take. Kreia's version of a Force sensitive, of "synthesis", is one that is basically a Sith but isn't ruled by their lust for power and doesn't rely on the Force for the power they have. Since they aren't ruled by lust for power, they can think pragmatically and exert their will across the galaxy in ways neither the Jedi or Sith can do. The Force sensitive in question lives by the moral code that they deem is right and pragmatic, and they use their strength and their power that they have to prove they're right because might makes right.
The concept of Grey Jedi as you imagine them do not exist. The Dark Side is a corruption of the Force created as a consequence of sentient life being in conflict with the selfless nature of the Force. To sit in the middle is to accept apathy, or begin a long and slow climb toward becoming a Sith Lord like Anakin and Revan.
@@LightAndDarkMdness02 not if you have self control. After all it’s we who have the ultimate say in what we do
@@N120Xeno
While this is true, most people lack the self control and discipline to resist the temptation of the Dark Side. If not even the Chosen One could resist falling to the dark side, what chance do you have?
It kinda hurt me to realize that (imo) Kreia was extremely accurate, and would’ve completely changed the face of how we see force users in the future through teaching the exile. But the exile did not follow Kreia’s word to stay there and wait for people to come and learn. It was for nothing, nobody learned anything and the pattern continued. In a way, the force won against Kreia.
I mean, both Revan and the Exile judged the True Sith to be a danger that was far more of a priority than teaching new students. Blame the MMO for completely invalidating their choice, and making the "True Sith" just more stereotypical bad guys.
The force always win.
Well, judging from the last part of video, it may seem that even though Kreia ‘lost’, her teachings were still true and eventually ended up resurfacing in Luke. (Denied to follow ideology blindly, denied to abandon humanity but also resisted giving in to temptation and passion.)
Honestly, how can you win against the Force? If it is "an energy field generated by all living things" as the films say, then there is no way to end it without exterminating ALL organic life in the universe. Even if Kreia succeded in cutting off more people from the Force in the same way it happened to the Exile using the Mass Shadow Generator, aside from instantly killing trillions of people, it would eventually survive and return through those that aren't Force-sensitive but still generate it nonetheless.
It's even *more* impossible if the Force controls the destiny of its users like Kreia implies, and that is made even more likely by the fact that "Chosen One"(s) like Anakin (but there may be more in the future to come, or more in the past we don't know about yet) can be coinceived from nothing (like Jesus Christ in Christianity) to bring about the Force's will.
Essentially all living things are the Force's play field, and Force-sensitives its puppets.
truth is, the game was rigged from the start
D&D Character Sheet (Kreia): "What's your alignment?"
Player: "No."
Kreia's alignment is Kreia-Central.
Lawful Cahotic Neutral Evil Good
Possibly chaotic neutral
@@FriskXI True Neutral, probabily
@@Irmarinen I used to think she was true neutral, but when I got to know the allignement system better, I realized it’s likely to be chaotic neutral
Classmate: Hey, can you help me with this question from our homework?
Me: Sure, it's easy
Kreia: Why did you do that? By helping him, he is now weaker in trying to do homeworks on his own.
...use them, until you exaust them, then leave them.
@@comraddisc2783 kinky
If you taught him how to solve the problem it's alright, only if you solved it for him he is weaker
@@darksteelmenace595 taught*
@@thomastakesatollforthedark2231 whoops, must have thought of another word there, huh
The Jedi all turning on you on Dantooine is one of the craziest flips I've seen in a game. You go through all that trouble to save them and reveal the Sith and fix the planets they're hiding on that they could not and then they turn on you
Broke my heart when that happened
Their goal is to put you back in exile without the force due to fear.
I call that a b**** move. By the Jedi master from Kotor ll.
Shows how blind and scared they had become.
"She brings truth and you condemned it. The arrogance"
~Kreia
Jedi: there is no ignorance, there is knowledge
Also Jedi: *IGNORE THE WHOLE MANDALORIAN WARS*
no wonder Kreia wanted them to see.
Yeah the more you learn about KOTOR lore, the more you realize how messed up the Jedi actually are
@@rsxmaster That really is one of the major points of KOTOR 2, and it's one of the things I love about it so much. The game does not label you as a "bad person" for getting into several long arguments with Atris about why it was a scumbag thing to do to sit back and watch the galaxy get murdered just because "patience is a virtue" or whatever the fuck.
well, they knew the war was happening but stayed inactive regardless. and since apathy is worse than death it is no wonder they all died.
No, they explain it quiet well, they where going to join but they CORRECTLY sensed that there was something else behind the mandalorians and wanted time to correctly assess it. Revan said fuck that went to war, found the Emperor and return a Sith to just about bring the extinction fo the Jedi. The Jedi Master where blind on their judgement of Meetra Surik but not about the Mandalorian Wars.
@@aacm1259 Ding! Ding! Ding!
They made the inverse decision to the Prequel Trilogy Jedi council. Where Yoda immediately suspected something was up upon discovering a Republic Grand clone army exactly when it was needed. He went along with the flow of things. The Galactic Civil War went exactly as Palpatine planned because the Council just went to the aid of it's constituents under attack.
The Old Republic council chose to go against the flow at any cost up to and above whole planets of peaceful civilians. All to avoid an unseen trap they're certain exists.
They chose to sacrifice a few planets to save the Republic. While the PT Jedi council tumbled headfirst into the trap, saved a few planets but caused the downfall of the entire Republic.
Idk what game these other guys were playing? Even a unicorn like Revan could only attempt to stop the events in motion after he recognized it. Bar such unique individuals from the equation and exercising caution is clearly the disappointing frustrating reasonableness of it.
Kreia's Lessons:
- Always ask questions (similar to Socrates)
- Act to better the world around you, but not at the cost of yourself
- The greatest victory is that of enlightenment (both of yourself and others)
- Do not rely on others for your strength
- Giving other what they have not earned may ripple negatively through the galaxy
- Spreading pain, only causes more pain
- Overcoming ones own struggles strengthens the individual, fighting others battles for them cheapens this victory
- Those around you can be manipulated carefully to suit your own goals
- Physical strength means nothing, refusing strength/ideology(ies) that you have not earned is true strength
- Never live for an Ideology/others, if you do, find it's opposite so that you may strengthen your ideology by finding its flaws and correcting them
- Free will is preferred over Fate
- And so, each person is to be both a union of Good and Evil, as well as something more than just the sum of its parts
- In the end, those that have mastered this, must live on to teach others.
(If I've missed anything, please feel free to add or correct anything)
So you won't do anything? Apathy is death. Worse than death, because even a decomposing corpse will feed beasts and insects..
KREIA.
Who are you?:)
Always ask questions (similar to Socrates)/ Yes.
- Act to better the world around you, but not at the cost of yourself/ Better yourself, even at the cost of others, they exist to better you- it is better to be a dreamer than be part of someone else's dream
- The greatest victory is that of enlightenment / The Greatest Victory is having your opponent see the folly of opposing you in the first place
- Do not rely on others for your strength / Yes
- Giving other what they have not earned may ripple negatively through the galaxy / Direct Quote from Nar'Shaddah. Yes.
- Spreading pain, only causes more pain / Pain is a lesson. Formulate the lesson-plan before you apply it.
- Overcoming ones own struggles strengthens the individual, fighting others battles for them cheapens this victory / Cheapens *their* Victory, yes.
- Those around you can be manipulated carefully to suit your own goals / Remove the word carefully. If your ends are just, so are the means of which you attain the end
- Physical strength means nothing, refusing strength/ideology(ies) that you have not earned is true strength / Physical prowess is temporary, erudition is forever.
- Never live for an Ideology/others, if you do, find it's opposite so that you may strengthen your ideology by finding its flaws and correcting them / Begs the question why Kreia put all her hopes and dreams into one person.
- Free will is preferred over Fate / Fate is the excuse provided by the losers or the unjust winners. Free-Will is the conscious understanding of following and adapting to ones fate.
Physical strength is not meaningless. Thats not what she was saying. She was telling the exile that earning your own strength, be it physical or otherwise, is true strength. Not borrowing, leeching, or mimicking others.
Refer to every conversation had on Nar Shada.
How to create a sociopath in 11 easy steps.
Talking to Kreia be like:
Influence lost: Kreia
Influence gained: Kreia
Light side gained
Dark side gained
in a nutshell yes
@Levi Cato long live MSF
Stolen, unoriginal joke
@@fulltimeslackerii8229 k
@@fulltimeslackerii8229 hilarious and original
Props Sara Kestelman, the voice actor for Kreia. She did a phenomenal job.
When you think about it, The Force is the perfect plot device in a way, it ensures there will always be conflict between Sith and Jedi and that neither side can truly be free from its influence without sacrificing something they believe they cannot live without.
Stories that involve the preservation of Balance tend to devolve into this problem. The "Light Side" can be just as oppressive as the "Dark Side" when one becomes more powerful than the other, but inevitably, the pendulum has to swing back into place. When the Light becomes too bright, the Dark will be empowered to suppress it; When the Dark becomes too encompassing, the Light will shine through to relieve it. And all the while, lives will be lost in the name of some simplistic, flimsy morality, i.e "LIght good, Dark bad"
@@Kite403, except that's not how the Force was ever supposed to work in Star Wars, at all.
“I thought you died during the mandalorian wars!”
“Die? No. Became stronger? Yes.”
Bit sassy.
-"Pfff, I'm not going to watch the whole video."
-2 hours later: "Interesting"
Pfff, I'm not going to watch the whole video again
fify
Im scared to start back again... innocent 5 min and boom, a whole... once more... 2021✔
The scene between Yoda and again is such an underrated gem. Hayden Christensen suffered from poor directing, but it's body language is perfect.
Even back then i was impressed: Anakin was really trying to follow the jedi path, but then the wisest master replied to his cry for help with empty words. And anakin's feelings are conveyed with no words : once Yoda proved himself useless, anakin just slouches and looks away, diverting his eyes, no longer paying attention
Not really. Master Yodas advice was quite sound: let go of all you fear to lose. He never said don't feel or care about anything. He wanted to instill in Anakin that you can care too much about something and do horrible things because of that. And the point was proven. Anakin couldn't accept his wife dying and ended up precipitating events that led to it. Had he controlled himself, he may have been able to keep her longer. But I agree about the body language. Hayden played the part of confused scribe quite well he seemed like he didn't know what to do which is incredibly relatable.
@@Whitebeardtheking9 Yoda (and the Jedi as whole) always gave Anakin platitudes. Absolute statements. They never tried to get to know him, to relate to him and empathize with his pain and his fears. They completely failed to understand that Anakin, *born and raised a slave then thrust into a galactic war* (with all the mental issues that accompany it), was a person who did not relate to abstractions. He only understood the tangible things in front of him: Weapons, starships, droids, fighting techniques... And most importantly, the actions people around him.
The principles of Yoda (and the Jedi as a whole) are not what is in question. They are good principles to hold. The failing is in the communication of those principles... And *that* is squarely on the shoulders of the Jedi.
@Softis Neleris maybe, but keep in mind that Anakin became a jedi by the jedi going against their code. He was too old to train by their standards and had formed strong relations with his mother as a young boy. These feelings would cause him to go against his orders later in life, trying to save her. When she died, his descent toward the dark began. By not adhering to the jedis belief of restraint he began to wonder if the force could be used to control. Not to mention, imagine his own hubris that led to a lot of bad things that plagued him. He was cocky even as an apprentice since he knew he was the chosen one, and this led him to believe that he didn't need to learn as much since he was basically the jedis ace in the hole. When he lost his arm to Dooku, he learned he wasn't top dog. He took this time to learn Form V in order to become a stronger swordsman. This worked but fed his ego and belief that might makes right. Anakins' fall is tied to his identity as the chosen one, his strong emotional ties, his failure to maintain control over his emotions, and his inability to accept things beyond his control.
@@Whitebeardtheking9 And what of Luke? He began his training at twice Anakin's age, had already formed relations with his (surrogate) mother *and* father, with Obi-wan, Han, and Leia, and even his father... And despite this, he turned out fine. But then, Luke was far more stable than Anakin. He did not have a laundry list of mental issues to sort out, and he had people who he was able to connect with, people who could give him the support he needed.
But the Jedi provided no such thing for Anakin. He would come to them, increasingly troubled and unable to cope... Only to have his problems dismissed outright, every single time. If he could simply let go of his fears, then he would not be constantly driven by them and asking his teachers for help time and time again.
The Jedis' obsession with beginning training as toddlers rebounded in their face and they had no idea how to deal with a real human. They'd been raised in an insulated bubble, only taught the Jedi code and nothing more. As a result, they had no idea how to handle an actual adult with actual human problems. They're automatons, repeating the same generic phrases ad nauseum. They don't make an effort to sit down, to talk out his problems and help him heal, to *connect* with him. As a result, neither side understands the other, and all Anakin has left is Padme and Palpatine.
@Softis Neleris the jedi are the orthodox for all intents and purposes in Star Wars. The things they preach allow one to resist temptation and avoid falling to the dark side. Yes, Luke was raised younger and had emotional connections. But also remember he could control his emotions far better than his father. Also, remember he wasn't ever told he was a chosen one or needed to fulfill a Prophecy. The jedi didn't dismiss Anakin, but they advised me to clear his mind, control his emotions, and be willing to let go of what he feared to lose. The Jedi are human too, but they try to instill wisdom so that people can control and accept things they can't stop. And since the force can essentially grant you the ability to destroy stars, influence peoples minds, and everything in between, they dont want you to make decisions based on emotion, les you use your power for personal gain.. Anakin simply didn't have the mental or emotional strength to endure, which is what makes a jedi, a jedi.
17:55 Hayden's delivery of this is SO GOOD! Thoughtful, flirty, with subtle hints of disdain for the rule. I'm glad people came around on accepting Hayden Christensen into the fandom. The things he got dunked on weren't his fault honestly.
Wait, wait, wait... Kreia, was actually trying to destroy not the Force... but Star Wars' own repetitive narrative. My, god...
Yep.
from what ive seen in other videos it actually goes deeper than this. there is a "ring theory" about how lucas constructed the formula to repeat itself so that he could maximize its impact on society. however, prequel haters don't like it lol
+ִ your name is awesome
Imagine her watching Episode 7
John Wreed Wait, what if the Force is actually the repetitive narration.
"You're placed under house arrest for blowing up a solar system."
That one got me.
hahaha! me too
That sounds so damn hilarious
*proceeds to blow up solar system*
Judge: Based on the crimes you have committed, the amount of lives lost, amount of property damage, and overall destruction and death that came from your actions; I have no choice but to give the maximum sentence under the extent of the law
“House Arrest”
@@miccool9ice363 on their defense, everyone living on the stations are already dead before they awake. However, they still blow up a system to smithereen....
Relatable
@@ArchivistMarker well, in my female playthrough, the sith were the ones to blow up the planet
Kreia is the most unfathomably based character in the entirety of the Star Wars canon
It's... mindblowing how well Kreia's speech works with the Order 66 scene...
50:12 Actually, there's a little know dialogue option that enables you to GAIN influence with Kreia, in spite of reuniting Lootra with his wife. You merely have to tell him to do the same kindness to another, should he be given the opportunity. He agrees, and Kreia tells you that was deftly handled, amplifying your own power by fostering trust and reliance from others, as well as bending the universe more to your way of thinking.
It's possible to gain quite a lot of influence with Kreia while making light side choices if you approach the situation correctly, though most players who try to act like "good jedi" will have a difficult time doing so.
What is often unacknowledged by Kreia's philosophy and worldview is that there are many situations where you can make both you AND others more powerful via your actions, best exemplified by your ability to train your companions in the ways of the force. The entire refugee sector on Nar Shadaa would actually be more interesting if, instead of fixing their problems for them, you could instead convince them to band together and take action for themselves, fighting off Serocco and the Exchange. Afterward, you now have a competent militia loyal to you, reinforcing your own power (which Kreia would approve of) while simultaneously making light side moves.
Thank you, this was one of things that kept nagging me all along during my lightside run (my only run) - Kreia just wanted to teach the exile how to change the world.
She did so while attempting her own change in the world - by spreading her own ideology.
Makes me think of self fulfilling prophecies and Von Neumann machines.
This is a very underrated comment. Why isn't this given more likes?!
In fact... it would be super-cool to make the latter half of your third paragraph its own mod, called "The Rise of the Rebellion", that not only reflects the refugees in Nar Shadaa, but also with the Ithorians on Telos (by training them to be able to defend themselves against Czerka and their likening).
@@mr.fabulousmegardev6256 The Ithorians will never fight however. They have the means to fight but refuse to do so.
Your idea is good,but you are forgetting that the more an organization grows the more the possibility of corruption there is.
A perfect resume of Kreia in the game at 43:43
"Whichever option you select, Kreia will scorn you."
Let her waste her breath. She's like the stepmother that is always complaining about everything you do. Just do what is right and tell her to bug off.
It follows Kreia's philosophy of constantly criticizing dogma so that one never becomes a slave to a single ideology. You go right, she'll complain you didn't go left. In the end you listen less to how others try to guide you and find your own path.
@@richardleach2906 Exactly. Kreia being critical of your choices in-game is a bit like a test on how you take her criticisms. Do you adjust to suit her whims, and thus prove her right that you have no sense of self and merely follow what others want you to do? Or do you go the opposite way just to spite her, and thus prove again, that you are beholden to your emotions instead of logical thought?
The right way is think things through, weigh the choices and make a decision on what you want to do - and pay no credence whether others (including Kreia herself) will feel morally contrasted with your choices.
I gave up at the fact that there were times that I could not be right in her eyes. Didn’t think of it as that there are always mistakes in either side and you must challenge each choice you make to understand what effect that you cause.
She should change her name to Darth Karen then.
What I’ve always found most interesting about Kreia’s philosophy on the Force comes from the fact that it is still forged by her hatred for it. She says so many thought-provoking things that actually make you wonder how right she really is, but some of the other stuff she tells are flawed enough to make you question her philosophy altogether again. After all, this is still written by somebody who nearly killed the Force itself. She was so carefully and well put together.
"Revan was power - it was like staring into the heart of the force. Even then you could see the Jedi he would slay etched on his soul." - Kreia
“I love you, I would let the universe die for you.” Don’t make me blush old woman
"But as I would do all of this for u little Jedi... I would only do it for ur knowledge and potential not appearance", "sorry not sorry🤷🏾"
me god mother
tfw no elderly sith goth gf
This person is still hearting comments after 3+ years
Hehehehehe
I know what a beast. Such good work
They r remaking it for next generation consoles
I found it interesting in game that it's easier to build rapport with Kreia as a dark side character Tham a light one, but at the council confrontation on Dantooine, Kreia will go off on a dark side character, telling them they're a psychotic failure that has accomplished nothing but random pain and suffering.
Completely from outside SW context, but it made me think of this piece:
"It is important to draw wisdom from many different places. If we take it from only one place, it becomes rigid and stale"
Iroh?
@@pugsyconglomerateiroh yes.
Well done. Kreia would have been proud of you for collecting this knowledge... and upset at you for sharing it with us instead of letting us go threw the challenges of collecting the knowledge ourselves. 😉
Darth Dictionarius here, your first lesson my apprentice: Through the challenges*, now go forth and murder me some Jedi. I offer you UN.. LIMI.. TED lexical advice.
So, as I offer... Unlimited Lexical Advice!
I doubt she would feel upset for giving the knowledge because we do not truly know it until we have perceived it. She would be upset if you experienced it and still didn't learn, which is something ,from my perspective, that happens all too often.
Ian Baker True, Kreia loathes the idea of wisdom being wasted on those who chose to ignore it. I wonder though how she feels about acquiring something vs having something given to you?
Dave Smith It's a great question, value is subjective and completely in the eye of the beholder. I do see your point about it holding less value. Because it was given and not earned. But that also is subjective and only true from a certain point of view. :-)
When you look at KOTOR2 and new movies you realise how hollow those movies realy are. Hats off to you for the amount of work you put into this.
mATHETICS kathleen kennedy called she said the force is female
The KOTOR games are far superior to Disney's sequel trilogy, Rian, Kathy Kennedy and those sjw activists and the Lucasfilm Story Group are so cynical, they choose to spite the fans, and dismiss anything from the EU stories, and these games, and yet there is a treasure trove of information, elements they could use to draw on for inspiration, to adapt into new movies.
But when they do this they just shoot themselves in the foot, because the sequel trilogy movies have nothing to say underneath, there is no substance there and they are now deeply inconsistent with TLJ, the continuity is messed up.
All they had to do was heavily inspire Rey off of either Bastila, Jaina or Kreia, or they could have taken things from each of those EU characters all rolled into one. The only thing the character of Rey is heavily based off of, is New-Wave Feminism.
@@RaikenXion What does star wars have to do with sjw activists?
Hildegard von Bingen this is true but they could have done something in their own way but they chose to ignore it. Kotor 1 and 2’s stories will never come out right on the big screen but they could have used the original timeline to help with their trilogy.
@@hildegardvonbingen9092 well you are right but. Fuck, it doesnt take much to change from the plot of "BIG SHIP DO BOOM BAD GUY WANTS TO KILL GOOD GUYS". But who cares its just pop culture, not serious business.
Is the true failure of the Jedi Council that they cannot show true compassion to each other? Nobody went to Anakin and heard him out, there is no Jedi that can sit and talk about emotions as anything other then a path to the dark side. They supress their emotions because uncontrolled emotions lead to the dark side, yet they have no outlet for the emotions they have trouble controlling. The dark side holds such sway over the Jedi because they fear it, but they cannot voice that fear because fear leads to the dark side. They aren't allowed to feel emotions, but they do anyway. Luke got through to Anakin because of his compassion and love for his father, regardless of what he had done. Where Yoda or Obi Wan could not get through to him even before he fell because they could not show him compassion or love enough to hear out his frustrations and speak to him with anything but Jedi philosophy.
Feelings are such a taboo that the Jedi drive themselves to the dark side because they see all emotions as absolute. So once they cannot take it anymore and embrace their emotions they become slaves to them. The Sith are so absolute because they now HAVE to feel strong emotions like anger, love, envy, pain, or loss. The Jedi need therapists and the Sith need a vacation.
Yeep feels sith just bunch extrovert who have big Ego they only care about themselves Ironically other people they treat you good person always have knowledge or charisma (most sith story) & Jedi is like other introvert to sensitive talk about their emotion sacrifice themselves because they care other people even they treat you like sh*t ( republic era)
Exactly, that led to their demise, eventually.
The Sith and Jedi needs to understand each side’s nature and balance it with your own strong will. Because in Buddhism, your desires are your own worst enemy.
Everything you said is all jedi crap
The real problem is force not people but force that makes galaxy suffering trying to achieve "balance" in wich is turning everyone in galaxy it slave
Btw did you even watch this video?
_“If you are to truly understand, then you will need to the contrast, not adherence to a single idea” -Kreia_
Best quote I’ve ever heard in the Star Wars universe… and that’s saying something.
Truly is one of the best
Sometimes your beliefs must be tested.
Something else interesting I just realized: Kreia tests the meta gamer. The most efficient ways to gain xp and improve the character stats in the game usually result in her scorn (and you have to bring her along since she gives you an xp boost). It's almost as if she wants the gamer to rely on their own strength and skill rather than rely solely on their over-leveled character.
Just like how she scorns the Sith for their reliance on their OP force abilities...
What an observation dammmm
i was thinking something similar while i was playing through the TSLRCM today
Also i just realized that the strength and relying on something like the force or a lightsaber is such a big theme, that it is even present in the mechanics! you can play the entire game without using the force or a lightsaber at all! you can play ith two blasters, max their abilities and you are set! it's amazing how even in that, it's present
I normally play/re-play KOTOR 2 trying to gain as much XP as I can, but you've now given me a whole other way to role-play the game!
stop reading too much into it. And she also bitches about everything over force skype when you dont take her along
I always loved how Kreia was used to deconstruct most of the Star Wars ideas that had been setup in the movies.This was a fantastic video that clearly took a shit ton of time and effort. It paid off because you did an incredible job.
MandaloreGaming if only Kriea and her philosophy were canon.
Rebels and Episode 8 are moving it towards that.
Yeah, but it's Disney...there's going to be some SJW propaganda involved that will surely affect the differing ideologies. Have you seen the Disney parks? They're just feeding the idea that Jedi=Good, Sith=Bad. They're not gonna teach the kids to explore and learn about the different sides in the Star Wars universe. I hope the kids can escape this grasp from Disney, and actually further delve deep to what this expansive universe has to offer! To sum it all up, they're going to condense and water down the previous ideas of George Lucas, sprinkle their own bullshit, and then market it to the kids who are most likely going to be brainwashed by the Disney bullshit.
The kids will find the true for themselves trough the layers of bullshit.
The stronger ones at least.
Ily
Kind of makes me wonder if Kreia's fall to the dark side at the end of the game had an extra unspoken purpose. Since apparently dark siders don't become one with the force when they die, her planning for her own death at the exile's hand would also factor in her dislike of the force and a desire to never become one with it, hence just one more reason she willingly fell and refused redemption at the end.
I never thought of that holy shiiit
It might also have some kind of aim to remove yourself from cycle of rebirths Force seems to like.
Without taking into account the retcons of the modern day, its very likely this isn't specifically true. If vader could become one with the force at the flip of a switch quite literally on his death bed, then its possible Kreia simply "fell" to the dark side of the force because of her need for raw power. Not because of her Alignment with the force.
Also afaik you can't become one with the force unless its by choice anyhow. Whether Kreia was good or bad probably doesn't matter if she choses not to become one with the force, then she simply will not.
Dark siders likely *can* become one with the force, however the dark side teachings generally see that sort of "faith" aspect of the force as weakness. Therefore it is simply not passed down, so its more likely sith simply don't know how to do that/and or refuse to become one with the force assuming they know the process of Spiritual ascension.
Remember the Sith teachings is *very* dog eat dog mentality. Only strength matters. Training in the art of the spirit unless its to further ones power is virtually useless, as Historically sith that have tried to do spiritual shit in the past don't actually get stronger, and generally get fucked by their own machinations trying to *become* stronger in the force through spirituality/faith.
Kreia loved the exile for being able to simultaneously deny the will of the dark side and light side (the force as a whole) during the forced decision planned by Revan using the shadow mass generator. The exile detached completely and still was able to live without the force. The difference was that the exile in making this choice what cutt off from the will of the force, becoming a free agent. When trying to feel the force again you notice the exile like nihilus feeds off the force sensitive around them, except it doesn't consume the exile, it only effects those around the exile. The exile through the use of the force becomes a master manipulator. Kreia is there to make sure the Exile understands what he/she is so that the exile doesn't fall into the trappings of the forces will, to forward events as it sees fit. When the exile learns the power of her/his free will they can freely deny both the light and dark using the force as a means to and end and not become enslaved by it. To excercise their own will and rely on their own strength when possible, because the more you engage in the force, the more hold it has over you. See but you as the player are a free agent from the will of the force and the only thing that can enslave you now is your own notion of what role you should play, light, or dark. Kreia helps you realize you don't have to follow those cycles and to do so is to sacrifice your own will to an ideal you feel you are required to fill. Soo much to digest here, I love this deconstruction.
This is not just an analysis about Kreia, or even Star Wars. It's an analysis about a lot of dualistic fiction out there. Extremely well done. My hat's off to you sir!
This is an analysis about Democracy. As was the game.
Sakhmeov oh you mean mob rule?
+David Smith Quite. Or worse its devolution; the pretense of mob rule, with useful idiots responding to a Ponzi Scheme they believe they _have_ to stay in. If the former is Sion, then the latter is Nihlus.
Sakhmeov Well said!
STATEMENT: APATHY IS DEEEAAAAAAATH.
"Hesitation is defeat" - Isshin Ashina
I'm singing this in my head now. Thanks xD
Annoying Recitation: Let us proceed to facilitate communications.
chocolate is delicious
There is no death, there is only the Force.
7.2 million views! Well done and it makes me so happy that Kreia is still so well revered
the guy is pedophile
No idea how true it may be, but there is a story about the Buddha that illustrates the nature of helping others from a "Kreian" view, so to speak.
One day, the Buddha and his disciples were travelling, when they encountered a farmer who had his cart and ox stuck in the mud. The Buddha immediately jumped into the mud to help the farmer push the cart and the ox out, and all of his disciples followed. After pushing the cart out to dry ground, the farmer thanked them and they continued on.
Later, they came upon a similar scene - a cart and an ox were stuck in the mud, with the farmer sitting by the side of the road, crying. The Buddha simply kept walking. Seeing this, a disciple asked him why would he not help the farmer, to which the Buddha replied "Help him do what? Sit and cry?"
There's a simpler saying in Christian Mythology.
'God helps those who help themselves.'
that’s a made up saying, something that actually isn’t practiced in Christianity, kind of like “This too shall pass”
@@LordTyph That's an American idiom, not a Christian saying. It was first coined by an English philosopher in the 1600s and made popular in the American Colonies by Benjamin Franklin. It does not appear anywhere in the Bible.
@@LordTyph most of Christianity is appropriated and not actually in the Bible
@@hpatss4966 You really defined religion in this one phrase lol
"Be on your guard, otherwise you may learn something." Big oof.
Leeeeaaaarrrrrnnnnniiinnnnggg... It hurts, make it stop :c
Medieval religious zealots: *Hmmmmmmmm* 🤔
Hector Andem x CVS king)j c I gxjx
One of her few jokes
Please have the decency to timestamp, especially on a 2-hour video
Wow. Just wow. Normally I wouldn't even consider watching a video of this length, but my love for the KOTOR games and Star Wars... and the force all told me I should watch at least a little. Goddamn was it worth it. This is quite possibly the best analysis of not just Kreia, but Star Wars as a whole. Well fucking done.
The Act Man it is a damn good video totally worth watching. Just got done watching your Kotor video a few minutes ago lol.
Hello there!
So KOTOR 2, ActMan?
The Act Man If you make a KOTOR 2 video, don't forget to mention Chris Avellone's original vision for the True Sith.
I recently discovered your channel because of your review of KOTOR. I love all your halo videos as well. Your channel is amazing.
I really think Kreia's philosophy was highly based off of Søren Kierkegaard. A big theme of his work was that one's most moral conduct is enabled when they detach themselves from a crowd because "a crowd by its very nature is untruth." Kreia's entire shtick IMO was to be willing to betray any idea to find the right way to be, essentially. She doesn't cling to the titles of Jedi, Sith, or even being your companion. I really wish more video game characters had this much thought put into them. Whether the writers knew Kierkegaard when writing Kreia or or not, it is still excellent to see this overlap. This much philosophical substance in a game is ALWAYS a plus.
I think one thing worth noting is how you can gain influence with Kreia on Korriban by being pro redemption. This foreshadows some dialogue in the final battle where she states she hoped you could still bring yourself to believe in her. I bring this up because you dismissed the events of Onderon and Korriban. This moment is a rare soft spot where she approves of a part in the Jedi code because Kreia has a bias towards love that she tries to hide. Another example iirc of this bias would be on Nar Shaddaa. Certain dialogue options will have her favoring the exile helping the couple reunite.
This game was more of a philosophical art piece. Crazy how good this was when they had little time with this game. All time favorite game by far
This story never being finished will haunt me forever.
Same. But Obsidian is making good games again. We can hope my friend.
Energeyser
The obsidian that made Kotor 2 is long gone, I doubt we’ll ever get a SW game like it again.
MDP_Toaster Obsidian, even in its current form, is able to make games like kotor 2. But with Disney and EA at the helm of Star Wars, they and other studios who could craft stories worthy of kotor 2 will never get their hands on the license.
it's finished in a sense in SWTOR, you meet Revan in a flashpoint and the force apparition of the exile
Aaron Page No one who truly liked kotor accepts what SWTOR did to Revan and the Exile. And since Disney erased all of the EU, they don’t have to
The moment in KOTOR 2 that defined Kreia best for me is during the Council's trial for the Exile while playing as the Light Side. This comment will be a long one, so this just a heads up.
Whether you select her to come with you or not, she is waiting in the section just beyond for the right moment to not only see what the Exile will do, but to learn what happens now and if the Jedi will actually listen for a change. Just as the Masters lambast the Exile for being a threat to the Force, Kreia instead counters their that our removal from the Force made us more than what the Jedi could ever imagine with their narrow-minded view of how things should be. As she sees realizes where how this confrontation is going to end, she makes her way to where we are, embracing the Dark Side more and more as the Council's decision to punish the Exile has her enraged for multiple reasons.
She is angry that for all the Jedi has done to her and how they have failed everyone through their inaction. She is angry the Jedi are willfully ignoring the knowledge the Exile has brought them as she herself values knowledge quite highly. She is angry that they are threatening the Exile, someone who represents the ideal she reveres, that the Force does not need to dictate or control someone for them to make a difference. She also confronts them with her hood down, which implies she isn't hiding behind some half-truths or air of mystery, so she is being as blunt as possible just so she can get her point across through the thick skulls of the Jedi Masters.
With her rage and experience, she overpowers and tears into the Jedi Council, throwing all of their mistakes in their faces as she does with the Exile when their actions don't line up with her more harsh perspective on life. She shows understanding at the fact the Exile separated themselves with the Force, demonstrating some level of care for the Exile, whether it be for their status as a Force wound and/or for being a student of hers. Regardless, her disdain for her former colleagues is apparent as she knows how their apathy has brought only death to the galaxy. That, in turn, is why she will never be like them and will always act when they will not.
What's most important to note is how she retaliates against the Jedi Masters here. She doesn't kill them with power, she severed their connection to the Force. It was the shock of having the connection removed that killed them, proving them to be literally incapable of reconciling the idea of a life without the Force. Kreia did this not just to punish them, but to make them see there is more to life than just the Force and its influence and they still refused to listen. It's even through this manner of punishment that we are shown a glimpse of what her endgame is and that freedom from the Force matters more to her than any life lost as a result of obtaining said freedom.
It's so incredible when you can make such an important climax to the story just as much a scene which defines a complex character like Kreia so completely.
This video leaves me wordless. I always come back to it. A master class in the heart, soul, and philosophy that makes Star Wars and KOTOR what they are. Breathtaking. Art.
Same, I’m really trying to use it to springboard into a Star Wars script I be been brainstorming for years lolol
This game is a prime example of what video games can teach. The wise learn from all posible sources, not just the traditional ones. These lessons are simple, yet it's surprising how many people fail to learn them.
Much of my english vocabulary has been learned in games, hell, even me speaking a second language is thanks to videogames.
@@MarlonSolisFallas Ikr. Greetings from Hungary.
Kill or Be Killed, Trust N0 0NE ? lol...
@@MarlonSolisFallas i also learn English from Final Fantasy 7 :))
Kreia has nothing of use to teach me, I'm afraid.
Sara Kestelman did such a great role as the voice of Kriea, easily one of the best voice acting to be heard on game. If they ever bring back Kreia in some form, they need to bring back Sara.
TheAnimator727 No Sara, then no Kriea. Unless they bring a younger version of her
@@adelerodriguez5636 Some amazing stuff about her becoming Kreia, for example?..
She sounds like Dahlia Gillespie from Silent Hill 1, but less dramatic. I'll have to see if the names line up.
Edit: I was wrong. Dahlia was voiced by Liz Mamorsky. RIP.
One hsould get in contact with her and tell her how much the community appreciates her work. I mean Sara kestelman is already in her 80s (afaik) so.. I think she should know how much of an impact she made with that character alone! And how much more popular she got nowadays :D
I’d love to see an interaction between Kreia and Palpatine.
Palpatines philosophy is, arguably, pretty simple though
On one hand she would loathe Palpatine for being so reliant on the dark side of the force, for without it he is just a frail old man. But then she would compliment his skills as a master manipulator and a politician, a talent that you do not need the force for.
@@Da1337Man palpatine becoming emperor was like 70% manipulation, 30% dark side.
@@Timebomb_19 That 30% comes in quite handy though when you're up against Mace Goddamn Windu and Master Yoda.
@@Da1337Man True but he wouldn't be as good at it without the Darkside and his ability to foresee future events. How else could he make sure "everything proceeds as he has foreseen"?
Please never delete this. This is my comfort video.
I will never delete this.
What I really like about KotoR 2 is how it allows you to hold an opposing view to Kreia without punishing you. You can play a goody two-shoes Jedi and the game doesn't have all your choices end up with horrible consequences just because the writers disagree with that view. If you play as a pure light Jedi, most of your choices will still have good results, with people being saved from slavery, planets being rebuilt, criminals being taken down, just rulers creating stable safe nations, etc.
The game tells you that as well thought out as Kreia's views are, they aren't above scrutiny and should also be challenged.
Kreia herself doesn't even scold you horribly. She simply wants you to make your *own choices*. It's why she loved Revan, in a way. Revan was always himself.
@@Aqueox ... Well, until he wasn't.
@@Dogmelter42 I do not acknowledge false tales.
But Kreia's ideas don't seem to be very well thought out at all, she seems more like a postmodern edgelord hiding bad ideas behind fancy words and shock value.
Helping others by empowering them to become more self-reliant is of course better than doing all their work for them, but providing your help as a booster rocket to get them to that level where they can help themselves is entirely admirable, and no civilization could possibly survive without that kind of cooperation.
Kreia's idea of providing no help at all under any circumstances, because every individual should have to swim or die on their own as if they were an island, is not only evil... It's massively illogical because no kind of galactic civilization could even be possible without some form of mutual cooperation and mentorship by those who have already achieved more experience and can pass that on to you.
If two parents tried to raise their one month old baby so that someday they can become a successful adult, I feel like Kreia would be telling the parents that they were wrong to rob the child of its challenge, and tell them to next time let the baby feed itself.
... Now those parents have one dead baby, and a smug Kreia expecting a thank you.
@@StudM01 I disagree she never said don't help but only help if it's going to add to your life, an example feeding your child is good for you so Kraya would agree with this decision but if your child is an adult teach them to fish and let them feed themselves she's not above teaching you to help yourself and how to do it but she's not going to let you become dependent on others I feel you missed her whole point and belief system
Kreia was written to be a critique of Star Wars and in that became the embodiment of what can be accomplished philosophically within the framework of fiction. She is without a doubt the best written character in all of Star Wars. She is a cornerstone in the debate between free will and hard determinism. She takes a fantasy setting that most people think of as simplistic, good vs evil and turns in on its head over and over again.
I named my newborn daughter Kreia in large part to this video reaffirming what I already partially understood.
Thank you for making it.
I agree with everything u said
What's scary is you're probably not trolling
@Dalen Lewin not you ya fuck wit the OP
The Max LVL That's pretty cool. You should try to remember this comment of yours so you can show to your daughter when she is able to understand the philosophy. If that's actually the case, hi Kreia lol I wonder how good or bad all these comments criticising Disney will age
@@jennytalia6724 Your comment is cruel. You should ask yourself why.
This video is a masterpiece. I rarely watch longer stuff especially from start to finish, but this was a shining exception. Thank you very much!
The most interesting thing about Kreia to me is that, if she stood back and allowed Nihilus to consume all force sensitives, the Sith and the Jedi would have inevitably withered away and she'd be free to impose her ideology as the most true path for force sensitives.
She could've immediately hid away with the Exile and maybe a few other force sensitives on some ridiculously remote planet, waiting for the galaxy to become empty of any other force sensitives thanks to Nihilus and Scion. Her goal of getting rid of those manipulated by the force would've been achieved simply because there wouldn't be any force sensitives left alive to be manipulated by it nor any new ones left to be funnelled along either the way of Jedi or the Sith.
If anything, Kreia is helping the force by encouraging the Exile to confront the Jedi with the truth and stop the Sith.
She was already free from the force, but she so quickly became enslaved by it once the opportunity presented itself via her force bond with the Exile.
That's one of the best calls, I deem. She was constantly repeating about death of the Force - but what did we start to do after awakening? Listen to the Force and use forgotten abilities. "The end."
@@visvald_of_volga_areaapathy is life
She probably thought that if she let Nihilus alone, he'd become such an unstoppable problem that it would prevent any future for anything at all. Nihilus eats life, not just Force. I doubt she wanted total omnicide.
She states in the game how Nihlus needs to be destroyed because his teachings need to be buried forever so no one else can rise and claim his mantle--committing more horrific atrocities and most likely destroying the galaxy altogether if left unchallenged. His threat was far too great to be ignored.
@@blackosprey2219, well, life cannot exist without the Force, so it wouldn't have mattered regardless.
It still blows my mind that some of the most important lessons of my life were taught by a fictional videogame character. Even crazier is that there are still to this day lessons I missed.
Aaron Brindley Yes, I can say the same of SWTOR actually even if it’s not as philosophically deep as KOTOR. Our society and generation is severely lacking if it takes a game to do a better job at instilling values.
@@a.m.9993 Our society has lacked depth for a while now. Kreia is an existentialist. Don't help others for the sake of feeling virtuous. Don't be a tyrant for the sake of power. Living on the border of chaos and order is the divine creating force of the universe. We've titled too far into chaos we've mistaken for freedom.
We lack discipline and so we forsake responsibility. We will all pay the price unless we create our own echos. Like Kreia says.
Sydnius Alminia same😂😂
Kodiak I actually just finished playing KOTOR 2 ( I watched this video before actually playing both games because it caught my interest) and I have to say the beauty and depth of both stories brings tears to my eyes. I thought I wouldn’t like KOTOR 2 as much as the first one but I came to realize there was so much wisdom in it, especially with Kreia. Although I already have my own religious beliefs, there is so much to gain from the characters, so many lessons. I was impressed by the conviction of each member of the Exile’s crew, as well as by their gradual character development. I feel as though they are the mentors I never had, and I in turn taught them as well. Even Kreia, being “evil,” through all of her lessons, impacted my perspective on life. Thus, watching this video now has so much more weight.
I never imagine that THE FORCE would turn out to be true villain of the franchise
26:35 HIGH AS HECK - Trippin' on the Force. The FORCE is not the villain. It is the Addiction to the Force ENERGY that destroy both Jedi & Sith.
The Jedi Kidnapping, Slavery, and Abuse of Child Soldiers progressively leads their victims down the path of FORCE ADDICTION.
LIGHTly addicted force users, using hits of the Force for 'good', actually for totalitarian authoritarianism and Collectivism. Force powered Thugs.
Eventually, continual use of the force leads to the DARKer addiction, force lightening, force choking and control of others.
The disregard of Self Life, force celibacy and forbidding of intimate relationships and family degrades into a disregard for all life, despair of all hope for good, and predictable self destructive behavior.
The Force should be studied and understood, with the full and direct understanding that any use of the Force eventually leads to addiction.
The One individual in the video is correct. LOVE is to be enjoyed and experience, not banished. LOVE and passion requires both self discipline and self control. These are not new ideas, most cultures promote monogamy to assist in family stability and the raising of children.
The Jedi fundamentally disregard the well being of the children they kidnap and enslave. Naturally the children will grow to resent being victimized, and hate their masters that stole them from their real families.
To Balance the Jedi / Sith Career path : 1. No more Kidnapping. 2. No more enslavement. 3. Adult 18+ volunteers only.
4. Awareness of the Force Addiction, all Force users eventually will become 'Darkly' addicted. Regular medical check ups and technology would be developed to detect when individuals are at risk of Dark addiction. Medications would be developed, or medical procedures for surgical alteration to prevent Force Addiction from causing skin and brain damage, with therapy to help them over come the disease.
5. No more Celibacy. To Love Life and Value Life, having a spouse and children gives the Jedi-Sith work / life balance. A Home. Family.
These Circle of Life factors are encoded in different ways for all species, but all Living species are driven to continue living, continue existing, through what ever form of natural reproduction and recombination is encoded in their genes. Living DNA should not be extinguished by dogmatic false teachings. To do so is Genocide, and Genocide for any reason is a Hate Crime. The Celibacy is a Hate Crime, a War Crime.
Destruction of the Individual, and of their families is never good for the ''common good''. Such Collectivism is the harm caused by the errors of socialist-communist thinking. You can not create a ''common good'' by destroying the very individuals that make up that ''common''.
The CORE of all civilization is healthy families. Human or Alien ! :-) 6. Encourage Jedi Dating, weddings, and families. 7. The new generations of Jedi will be more sensitive to the Force, and perhaps, eventually, naturally, evolve resistance to addiction. The newer generations of Force enabled people will use the force without effort, just another form of the senses, like touch, sight, scent, and hearing... Fully alive and without dependency.
@Language and Programming Channel Metaphor for Republicans and Democrats. The illusion of choice obscures the truth.Two sides of the same coin.
@@dend1 dems are the sith and the republicans are the jedi
@@SeaJay_Oceans Damn this is a great way of looking at it. Do you have a degree in Philosophy???
Outcomes evolve from pathways.
pathways grow from beginnings.
Jedi/Sith are founded on slavery and addiction.
midi- chlorians infection is Galaxy wide...
A super organism that consumes individual hosts if the Force energy addiction runs to its full course.
The Jedi genocide of celibacy and child kidnapping starts a beginning of enslaved helplessness, follows a pathway of violence, emotional neglect, & psychological abuse, and ends predictably with self destructive over dosing drug dependency upon Force Energy.
You see the same patterns in victims of Heroin addiction... Starts off as a fun time / party drug, but rapidly destroys the health and families of addicts, almost always ending in overdose deaths, unless real help intervention rescues them from self destruction.
The Star Wars inspiration can be seen in the party drugs of the 70s 80s & 90s, and the
wild Hollywood lifestyle of those decades.
Such an amazing video, great job! I loved how you used different movies and clips to re-enforce points. The fact that this video was almost 2hrs long and I was kept so interested throughout really speaks on how well you made this.
This is truly one of the best, well put together videos I have watched in a long time. So incredibly interesting and thorough. I am so impressed and have already sent it to friends this is amazing thank you for this.
That moment when you realize that Kreia's entire story is the force telling us that nobody can stop its will. If you try, it will destroy you.
There is no coincidence. When the force could not stop Kreia with the Jedi, it tried with the Sith. When it could not stop her with the Sith, it used HER. It placed her with the Exile, which through it's echoes influenced her to try and use the Exile for her own ends. However, it was the Force's will to re-establish the Exile's connection to the force, and ultimately use that connection to destroy Kreia.
KotOR2 is a story to tell us that the Force cannot be stopped.
...Then that means there is no hope...
True, both the Jedi and the Sith simply refuse to change their ways.
Well, if you ignore the franchise canon and only look at kotor 2. The game does offer you the option to stay behind and continue what kreia started and since the force has no control over the exile it could become a reality.
"franchise canon" HAhaa
Star Wars is a subtle way of showing the destructive and inevitable conflict between left and right wing politics
If Kreia was Arren Kae and her relationship with Yusanis began via sparring then its almost certain SHE was the one who won completely and utterly and Yusanis the one who became enamored and submitted to her.
She herself talks about what it would mean in the ECHANI rituals, of which she does not belong. Brianna also talks about how to the Echani combat is a means of communication.
It may simply be that dialogue is implying Kreia is reading the exiles filthy thoughts on his duels with the Handmaiden.
However if it were a historical comparison there is no way in hell Kreia would be the one bested and submitting. It doesnt suit her character neither does it make sense as she is not Echani.
I agree with this interpretation. It's far more likely Kreia bested Yusanis in his own traditional battle and he submitted to her. I believe in the game they mentioned he followed Kae into battle against the Mandalorians, which to me indicates his submission to her.
I am just popping back in cause it came on my feed but this is truly one of the greatest videos ever made, well done sir.
That beggar on Nar Shaddaa is forever burned into my mind. I went light first and when Kreia unsurprisingly scolded me I simply went "Ok, one dark side point wont hurt, and Kreia tend to be stingy with the influence points. Reload, get my grump on... and get scolded anyway. It was only years later I realised the full brilliance of the scene but I remembered it from the start. No other game, movie, book or otherwise has done that. That alone makes KotOR 2 the Game of all Years for me.
When I was younger I didn't care for it to much, now that I'm older I get what they were trying to say
Tbh, I kinda felt cheated a bit there. You are only given two binary options, with no more nuance. And then, scolds you for it.
It's a bit... cheap. I get the point they're trying to make, but... it's still a bit unfair.
+Antonio - That's due to an interpretation of what one wants out of a game. There's the love of the narrative constantly fighting with the love of the gameplay, of games in general. We want it to be inherently and unerringly fair because then we have an equal chance of "winning" based on our input. Most play games for this experience, not for life lessons.
True, but still.
Antonio SCENDRATE GATTICO watch ground hog day, its sad, but it has a poignant message about poverty and helping people too. he keeps reliving the same day(bill murray), he doesnt know why, he tries to escape it eventually, but mostly he learns to care for others, cheif among them a man he sees die every day, he keeps trying to find ways to save him, and fails. every time.... its so very sad and it impacted me when i was a kid when i watched it, its a very sad movie in a suprising way
the moral is at the end he learns a important lesson about that man, to treasure him and just help him have a good last meal with the warmth of someone caring for him and helping him get in a warm and comfortable place to have a meal together, and its all about the facial expressions in these scenes, the warmth, and the hope, and the happyness, and its about how important it is to face that sometimes we cannot change a fate, but we can change how they recieve that fate, or how we treat those around us regardless.
1:24:56 - His qoute about the time one self lives in, being the most inportant in all of history, is my favorite moment from any Star Wars media.
"Look, everybody always figures the time they live in is the most epic, most important age to end all ages. But tyrants and heroes rise and fall, and historians sort out the pieces."
Correct me if Im wrong, but they are talking on Taris. But you can add Bindo to the party in that part of the game, when you cant go back to Taris. How is that? Through the power of coding!
Maybe that is a misunderstanding of history then anything else.
@@PilarPPP The dialogue exists regardless of where you are. Jolee delivered this message to me on Korriban
I have no words for how great this video is. This is quality content. I subscribed to you because of it.
I return to this video from time to time, just to revisit the basic elements of Kreia's philosophy on the Force and how it connects to the Star Wars canon. Well done!
This is easily one of the best videos I've ever seen in my life. Expertly done.
This video is like a movie that never makes you bored. This whole Kreia-story-thing is not just a Star Wars story. It can teach you to think differently or at least make you think about life. Enormous efforts have been put to this video.
They set the bar so high with writing in this game that almost everything else that followed in the sw games and films just felt hollow
You're so right. I love star wars, this star wars. Not the shit we're fed nowadays
the sad thing is, I cant watch both preKyloRen trilogies anymore thanks to KOTOR1&2's depth. And I dunno if I should be thankful or disgusted by the impact Kreia, Revan & others had on me from this :/
Evilriku13 if it makes you guys feel any better, the Disney Star Wars is now being proven now more than ever (even Disney will admit this) that Star Wars under their control is a dumpster fire because they’ve made it so. Merchandise isn’t being bought, Galaxy’s Edge is a portion of Disneyland that remains empty, and younger generations don’t even like the franchise anymore. It’s only a matter of time before the franchise is deemed worthless to Disney and can return to more capable hands
@Daisycutting2 i totally agree with you and to be frank, a game series as KOTAR 1&2 can NEVER occur again ... unless it's a remake like what is being done with Final Fantasy 7.
To explain my point take these facts regarding the force sensitive population in account, some of which were explained in this video (These, viewed from the movies era excluding the Clone Wars);
1- The Jedi Order, at the time of the movies, can be counted for about 95% of the "trained" force users
2- The Sith order members would account for possibly 0.1 to 0.5% of the population (Yoda; "There are always 2 Sith; The Master and The Apprentice), i'm willing to go up to 0.5% of that population to include potential trained Sith assassins
3- The rest would be Force sensitive individuals that were never found by both orders with the exception of
4- 0,000...1% of the trained Force Sensitive population that could be classified as Grey Jedi.
As stated in the Video, Kreia is a TOTAL ANOMALY as 1 she was trained as a Jedi that fell to the Dark side. In there, she was ... Trapped until her link was severed, which in turn forced her to review her obsession for Power (I know i'm oversimplifying but meh) AND she survive the encounter with the Siths that performed that act.
This series of events would be so rare in the Star Wars universe that it can only be the exception that confirms the rule and even this last statement is WAY too LIGHT in my taste.
Thus, with all those elements combined ... i think that an other game with 2nd character that would desire to make the universe "desensitized" from the force, as Kreia desired, would simply be an aberration.
This shit is canon to me.....
Still coming back at least once a year to listen to this masterpiece of a video. Thank you.
If everyone had a person like Kreia in his/her life, perhaps the world would be...flawless?
This video is such an eye-opener. Not only in terms of Star Wars franchise/universe but in terms of...our life's.
It drops the bullshit, drops everything we known and understood as the base of ourselves, our cultures, believes, traditions, morality and forces you to think on every step you will take.
That is great.
It only makes me cover myself in more angst that sequels could have taken so much from High Republic, creating something bigger, bigger than we can understand for the time being.
Obsidian made this game so deep and dark, they put so much thought into it. The overall story of the first KOTOR can't be beat, but the depth of the characters and the dark direction of the second game makes it an absolutely great experience.
I think 2 had a superior story.
imo 2 is better but could have been EVEN BETTER IF THE ENDING WASN'T......... Y'KNOW 🤦🏽♂️
@@BriFiConnections If KOTOR is generic, then it must be hard for you in this age of gaming.
@@markmitin7397 it really is hard
Probably opening a can of worms here but I think KOTOR 2 is what The Last Jedi ought to have been. With a jaded Luke Skywalker taking on a Kreia-like attitude.
Kinda proud that you used the image I created as the video thumbnail! :) Kreia is my favourite Star Wars character.
You're the one that made that image? This is probably the best image of Kreia on the internet, and it should be shared more!
ִ Ah thanks man; I appreciate that! I wanted to make something simple, but instantly recognisable. I also had a quote in at the side too “it is such a quiet thing, to fall. But far more terrible is to admit it.”
AndrewASMR
Awesome image man 👍🏻👍🏻
Andrew is it possible to get a print of it? Like are you selling it anywhere or have it posted somewhere without the text?
you know there are alot of long videos out there, but every once in a while a video like this pops which keeps me hooked and I can actually go through it in one go
I come back to your trilogy every other month. You have so expertly articulated what makes kotor 2 the centerpiece of my starwars lore.
My child-self always remembered Kreia for her hood (for some reason I always imagined it to be a Tortoise shell) and her scaring me when she revealed 3 floating Lightsabers. My older self actually listened to what she said, paused the game, went outside, and just sat down for an hour or so trying to process it. I mean, I couldn't, but she was still captivating and made me a lot more pessimistic about SW for a time.
She was right.
That was more or less what happened when I first found the Morpheus conversation in Deus Ex. It utterly shocked me out of the game, and I didn't touch any games at all for a few days.
I agree. I think Kreia embodies overcoming psychological ambivalence (as described in multiple psychoanalytic frameworks), as in "the ability to live with and come to terms with contradictions, while still finding a way -your own way". To my knowledge, very few fictional characters achieve this in such a successful and clear manner. She makes me think of the 12th juror in 12 Angry Men -not because he makes everyone agree, but because he stands his ground for the sole reason that might (might) be right. Much like Kreia states that if she wins, she wants to win because she is right, not for any other reasons (such as being stronger or whatever).
Thought it was called "12 angry jurors", but yeah. All this.
@@saamjaza1742 In the US, the film is called 12 Angry Men.
Having seen the Last Jedi, watching this again was a moment of catharsis. Kreia's words and teachings carry a much deeper meaning for me. The story of KOTOR I/II cannot be replicated on screen. Kreia: It is such a quiet thing, to fall. But far more terrible to admit it.
Alexander Melrose I’ve seen TLJ twice and whenever someone says it was ‘risky’ and ‘deconstructs’ Star Wars I just wish I could show everyone Kotor2
Just as KOTOR II was a critique of the Star Wars mythos at the time, maybe someone will come along and provide a reaction to this new era. As for now, we may just see the same story play out in a repetitive loop.
Isn't that the problem though, because we've seen this possible conclusion we either accept it could have ended once, or that we just enjoy starwars for its conflict. I think at least they showed luke as the apathetic grey living as a hermit uninterested in taking part, that was probably the best way it could have gone for him unless they turned him into kreia v2. it is a shame though that personally i do find a lot more depth in the exile and kreia than i do in rey and luke. kotor 2 is just a well rounded story that hinted at a possible resolution but would have also meant the end of what makes star wars interesting/unique. there is also the fact that rpgs are inherently better at immersion than movies tend to be. your able to really squeeze depth out of kotor 2 in a way that no single movie will ever be able to match, maybe a trilogy.
KOTOR II just had the advantage of hours of exposition and storytelling to get the philosophy out. A movie, or even a trilogy, has to get everything done within the timeframe, and with more symbology. As long as the new trilogy really gets to the fundamentals and conclusions of what KOTOR II sought to show, I'd be happy :)
Well said to both Heathy and Philip Sangalang. It is certainly an unrealistic expectation to compare the media of games (or books) to that of film. Films have to do a lot in a window of 2-3 hours. There is something quite special about a movie that can develop a character and set up the plot within a short timeframe, and they deserve nothing but praise.
I do hope Disney can parse out the valid criticism of the Last Jedi and make improvements. As for me, the era of Star Wars fandom may have passed.
Hey I just wanted to say that I love this video :D
I watch it at least once a year because it is such a good analysis of Keira and the Force :)
You've done a great job here!
I've watched this video 3 times this week. I have loved the level of detail that you've put into this video since the first time i saw it.
Such depth and a wealth of philosophy. This is why I will always love the old Star Wars. We can all learn from Kreia.
Kreia talking over order 66 at 1:34:48 is a master stroke and makes that scene so much more impactful.
Yeah but if i were to say one character from kotor predicting Order 66 its Revan/ HK-47.
That was some epic writing.
This is fascinating, thank you for all the time and work you have put into this!
This should be a mandatory watch for EVERYONE making Star Wars movies/books or anything.
Have you seen the Mandalorian? The production team probably played through the kotor games a dozen times
This helped me a ton with getting ideas for my novel. it's so good.
@@miklosszabo4551 putting in Easter Eggs is not the same as playing both games and paying close attention to the story and the dialogue. I do not think many people working at LF have even played Kotor 2
@@RogersRoger I would hardly call a whole episode about a Krayt Dragon an easter egg
@@miklosszabo4551 why do you think so?
Kreia makes so much more sense now. Definitely one of my favorite characters in Gaming now that I understand her
Well, some time have passed - i guess it's time for another rewatching of that masterpiece. It's always like the first time - just devours me by it's beautiful narration from the beginning and till the end.
Happy 2022 to all - as much as it can be! Be strong with your spirit and always have time to think about your life!
Excellent essay, I just keep coming back to it over the years.
I realize I'm a little late to the party, but after noticing your video, then replaying Kotor 2 with Restored Content again recently, and watching this fully, I have to say, this is probably one of the best analysis on the Star Wars franchise and it's themes as a whole, that I have EVER seen.
You also managed to highlight exactly what makes Kotor 2 so superior to almost everything that has come before, even Kotor 1, story wise. But hey, maybe Star Wars had to grow and mature as a franchise until it could reach a point where someone as brilliant as the lead writer(s) behind Kotor 2 and specifically behind Kreia, could elevate the philosophical intricacies and depths to such previously unknown levels!
I have been away from this fandom for a while, but your video sparked my interest for Star Wars as a whole again. I can't thank you enough!
There's not much to come back to. Disney's Star Wars so far has been a joke.
You, like the Exile, came back a little too late. The last of the EU has been reduced to nothing but Legends by Darth Mickey himself. Everything you loved about Star Wars have all been replaced by poorly written stories, marketing ploys and Social Justice idealogies. All for the sakes of money and profit.
The Kotor duology succeeded where Force Awakens and Last Jedi failed.
Kotor 1 and TFA were meant to give you everything you loved about Star Wars. But only Kotor 1 could do that in a meaningful way and have actual substance and emotional weight.
Kotor 2 and TLJ were meant to deconstruct the Star Wars lore and its concept of morality. But only Kotor 2 could do it in a way that actually sheds a new light on the lore.
Oh my god thank you i thought i was the only one that realized that.
This is a incredibly superficial and bad take.
@@SeanORaigh
Coming from the guy who defends the Sequels... which means you don't have much to offer in relation to a conversation about something being "superficial."
@@SeanORaigh
Care to explain yourself at all?
@@lukaschapman9594 ofc not, this is npc and it has a limited dialogue ...
Still come back to this video once a year or so. Such a banger
8 million people watched this video, that's amazing, i'm playing kotor 2 again after 15+ years, an true classic game!
2 hours of my life very well spent
yes, very much so.
Abel Rodrigues but how do you live by these words? Its a fantasy story with a message grounded to reality. Its easier to listen to wisdom than living by it.
Jake Tryon That's the story of buddhist monks' lives. They spend their entire lifetime meditating on Buddha's teachings and trying to reach nirvana but very few actually succeed.
I couldn't agree more
Bruh I watched this twice