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Electric Guitar Shielding with Conductive Paint and Copper Tape
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- čas přidán 25. 09. 2013
- Another video I made about guitar noise:
• Reduce Guitar Noise - ...
Equipment used to make this video:
Brian Moore Guitar Custom 90TP.13 guitar
Audio: Sennheiser e935 Vocal microphone | amzn.to/2ZM2HIr
Audio: Behringer Xenyx 1204USB mixer | amzn.to/2NPSWXe
Audio: Behringer B1031a studio monitors | amzn.to/2ZOmbvY
Audio: Sennheiser HD 280 pro headphones | amzn.to/2UuUNC7
Pickup Bridge: Dimarzio Paf Pro | amzn.to/2ZGByXm
Pickup Middle: Fender Fat 50's | amzn.to/2ZGBFlK
Pickup Neck: Seymour Duncan Hot Rails | amzn.to/2PIYNjG
Strings: D'Addario 9-42 | amzn.to/2Lj2zMv
After 'Frankensteining' a perfectly good Brian Moore iGuitar by installing my own pickups and switches, I was left with a lot of EMI noise. Electro Magnetic Interference which is also known as Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) in electric guitars is either a ground problem or poorly implemented shielding.
After some research I bought some paint and tape from Stewart-McDonald (StewMac) luthier supplies. After installation I cured all of my noisy guitar problems. I am now very happy with the amazing instrument that I own.
Connect with me at:
AndyMack.com.au
GuitarGenius.com - The book I wrote.
/ andymacksoundvision
/ andymacksoundvision
/ andymacksoundvision
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All the Best,
Andy :)
I suggest you better stop it because you painted your fingers as well. I don't see any good skill from you.
And which one of your videos has 105, 301 views!? Someone must be enjoying my skills. Btw, I am an amateur - never said I was a professional.
Go back to Twitter, troll
If you can do better or have a better way, why don't you make your own video moron?
I don't see any good skill from you either.
Use shielding paint, covered by copper because 2 layers of shielding works much better than 1 single layer. Also the paint will cover difficult to reach areas inaccessible to copper foil. Use shielded wiring for the interconnections inside the control cavity, and to the jack.
Yes, what you have described is world's best practice!
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@Lyle Wilson Yes, shield underneath the bridge pickup, and under the springs. Do the same shielding as Andy Mack, he knows the best way to do it.
Best surface prep for paint EVER! Most disciplined application and dry time EVER! Did not anticipate the marginal results you got with conductive paint! Thank you for all that effort- the same things I plan on doing. You did everything just as I would have. Happy you made it through foil application without any micro cuts on your fingers. Great quality video, audio, content, and presentation.
Thanks Robert!
THANK YOU! This is the only before and after shielding demo I could find. I need to do this to a partscaster tele I've been building.
I am actually using the same style of strat with a rear mounting controls and planning on shielding and painting for double protection :D THANK YOU!
Having done this a few times, there's one very important thing he forgot to mention - make sure the copper tape has conductive adhesive. I don't think it comes without it anymore, but still something to be cognizant of.
Yes good point.
If it's not just fold back a small piece of copper tape on itself, lay that across non conductive joints and put a tape over that piece to secure it OR keep taping guitar strings/aluminum foil/wire across non conductive patches or you could put some solder across the patches. I thought it worthwhile to mention this because where I live it's difficult to source copper tape with conductive adhesive and even then it's much more expensive than regular copper tape. The shielding could even be done with adhesive aluminum foil or aluminum foil pasted on with spray adhesive.
@Andy : is there a specific reason why you chose to leave a small tab of copper foil for one of the pickup ring screws?
@@andymacksoundvision You can solder the pieces of copper foil together where they overlap. As long as the copper is clean and shiny. I use scotch brite pads to clean the oxide off the copper, then I solder to the copper. Good job on the video, I tell everybody to watch it. It is the best video for guitar shielding.
That worked surprisingly well. Conductive paint and copper foil are best for shielding from radio frequency interference. That would include buzzes from switching power supplies (which are everywhere these days), fluorescent light ballasts, and solid-state dimmers (you'd have a hard time finding a stage that still uses rheostats). However, copper does not have a particularly high magnetic permeability, so it does not do as well in blocking low frequencies (below 100 kHz). Ideally, you would want to use a mu-metal foil tape rather than copper, but that stuff is insanely expensive.
that is like night and day difference!!!! I love how my guitar sounds so much right now, i am scared to open it =(
If it's sounds good, it is good!
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My Ibanez Roadstar RS 1000 was shielded from the factory!, the control cavity only ,I finished the job with copper foil , amazingly quiet.
Good work!
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Ibanez shield the control cavity only because shielding pickups and trem cavities is meaningless when it does not make worse when is not grounded in proper way. It is enough shield the control cavity except in a Strat where pickup and control cavities are basically the same cavity. Btw the test of a shielding job should be made on a stage where are many sources of potential interferences. Even the most inexpensive guitar does not hum at home (if the electronic parts are ok and grounded and you do not play in front your amp).
Wow, really clean work and a huge improvement.
I have used the conductive paint on a few guitars, and I have found no problems with conductivity. It is messy, but it is also easier to apply than the copper tape. YMMV. I think Suhr uses the paint too.
A lot of companies use it. My 1st guitar had it but it cracked and chipped off in parts. I redid it with copper tape. Looks cool too :)
My 41-year-old Pedulla bass has shielding paint in the control cavity, but not anyplace else, also the shielding paint has flaked off in some spots. I was going to re-do the shielding with nickel shielding paint, but now I am considering using copper tape with conductive adhesive. The paint would be “more authentic”, but the foil more functional. Hmmm…
wow mate... although I knew about this, I never actually thought of doing it to my Strats and other noisy guitars I have... off I go to shield my guitars..... and after im done I hope to get the same results as you... cheers.
Wow man. Great job. No hum at all after the tape. Favorited this video as I will be reshielding my guitar cavities and plan on using tape now instead of conductive paint. I was going to use the conductive paint before I watched this.
Thanks for watching!
I just got done using Nickle based paint- works pretty well! 3-12Ohms anywhere in the pockets.
Only downside is it smells like spoiled smoked oysters when it's wet.
Doing the trem cavity was a little overkill, but it looks nice.
Using the conductive paint you need to use several coats before you get good connectivity across whole cavity. I found it easier to apply than copper tape on a Tele build.
Difference is night and day!
StewMac instructions on the can says to use latex/vinyl gloves to protect your skin from exposure. This is somewhat hazardous stuff.
This video aged quite well. Although today's shielding paint seems to have caught up to today's standard as well, as many videos show how there are full conductivity and almost no resistance (0.01 ohms at most).
Thanks, very instructive. That Bryan Moore custom is killer. I want one. I have a 1969 Tiesco Silvertone that hums like beehive. I going to try this next string change.
Nice Tutorial!!! Beautiful guitar top Spalted maple top!!! i love shielding copper tape
Yes I still love the look and playability of this guitar. Thanks for stopping by.
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Hey Andy- thanks for the video! This was exactly what I was looking for.
Such a neat and tidy install, I wish this guy could do the wallpaper in my flat!
After 30 years of ruining guitars I figured that I should do a good job on one!
Thanks alot for this great upload!
lomparti Thanks for the kind words!
For me the reason I'm even using shielding paint instead is because I'm wood mounting the humbuckers. Using copper tape in an exposed pickup cavity might be a bit of an eyesore...
Liquid Tape by Gardener Bender works great........ and cheap too. 4oz. for about 8.00 at Orchard Supply Hardware.
Gorgeous guitar!
Thanks. Great, isn't!?
Very nice job. Thank you for the detailed demo. My favorite RG550 gets a horrible buzz when playing at certain pickup selections and i think this will do the trick. Thank you.
not sure if you did this, but a suggestion to possibly make the noise even less noticable: make sure that each shield in the cavity is grounded. i.e. run a wire, connected from each shield, back to the main cavity shield, where the negative return wire is connected
Excellent!! I am a BMG C90 player and need to do this!!
Great job sir. Impeccable.. Great video and sound examples too!
singleplayer75 Thank you!
I'm always unsure about the effectiveness of conductive paint for shielding guitars. Clearly it does something which is better than nothing. However it is the conductivity of the shield which is the issue, (doh! obvious or not?) In order to work the current has to circulate in the paint very easily and without resistance. I'd be very interested in practical experience as it counters the theory every time. I did a copper foil job on my Squier Strat which made me feel as though it ought to be better but am not sure. I would say that copper foils need to be soldered together, especially if they are adhesive backed as this might insulation one strip from the next. Also, the strips or paint must connect to the output socket and amp which must also have a good ground connection within the building. Easy to forget that this whole path must be good or it will fail. Good video - thanks.
The luthier shielded my strat by shielding paint and didn't shield the pick guard. Is that ok? Or it must be incomplete?
is it enought to use shielding paint only, or should I use copper tape aswell? Because guitars from the stock are shielded with paint only.
Paint is not as conductive as copper...
18:46 The Fuck-yea-i-did-it guitar face!!
Yep, sure is!!
Nice work by the way! Very helpful to me as I'm going to do the same. Definitely not with the paint tho haha
nice work and what a hell of a difficult guitar you picked to do it on! going to do this with my '78 tele, single coils buzz like crazy. thanks for making this.
All the best with the Tele! Let us know how it goes.
Great results. But does the guitar wire that you taped in the cavities interconnect to all the cavities or just in the individual cavities?? Not clear on this. I read somewhere that they all have to be grounded or the shielding won't work. My thoughts are foggy but I hope you can understand my concern. Mahalo!! Johnny Pal
All the cavities and all the shielding is inter connected and connected to ground.
I see others are questioning why a custom Brian Moore easily >$1000 requires me to break it apart and copper tape it myself. Did anyone tell Brian about this technique? But, thank you for the great video! Much appreciated
kidritalin1 Thanks! With respect to Brian Moore guitars, this guitar was fine when I bought it, but the noise started after I first modded it. All the copper tape might be overkill, but more is more!
Are you sure it was shielding that was the issue? As you say, it was fine before you fiddled with the wiring. I suspect the rewiring after the shielding is what had the most effect on noise reduction.
Aluminum tape for heat shielding purposes can be bought in any hardware store and is waaaaay cheaper.
Does the job just as good.
Aluminium is only half as conductive as copper
Also alumunium can't be soldered@@deim0s243
Thanks for this. I was looking up shielding because my Brian Moore I7 is really noisy with high gain.
Fantastic, and to the point!
Thank you.
That is a gorgeous wood.
Thank you! It's spalted maple.
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Thats Awesome, I'm having the same issue with my guitars in my home studio. the computer is making it buzz so before I relocate the computer and run cables through a wall I'l use copper shielding for and give it a go... thanks
Thanks for watching!
beautiful guitar! good video. i learned something . thanks.
hello, my question is, my guitar has continuity between the phase and the ground, must I rewire everithing and shield it?
Is sanding the clear/paint off of the cavities necessary for proper shielding, or is it a matter of neatness? And why don't my $1200+ US made Strats come to me "properly shielded"?
It would add days of extra waiting time, cost, possible chemical disposal issues in America, and that some people don't like this on "Vintage" Strats.
Thanks!
I wonder if he mixed the conductive paint before applying it, the metal parts which makes it conductive sink to the bottom so you have to mix the paint to get the metal in there.
Yes he mixed the paint.
You mention that you wouldn't use the paint again And that the tape does everything the paint does. Can you expand on that a bit? Does using both really not have an added benefit? Does using just the tape solve the problem completely or is there some small amount that the paint helps with? Thanks very much!
I don't feel that paint would help at all if you've covered it all with copper tape.
Sounds great! Do you think it's absolutely necessary to shield the back cavity (& ground it to front) like you did here? Just curious; I'm installing a new loaded pick guard assembly into a Strat & was going to attempt to shield it while everything was out of it because it also has a particularly gnarly hum on the 1,3 & 5 positions. I wasn't thinking to do the rear cavity, but I guess it wouldn't hurt?
It may not have been necessary to shield the back cavity but I'll never know. If it's worth doing it's worth overdoing!
Hi, excellent job.
I still don't understand why you use paint and copper. Is not just one of them enough?
Thanks for your answer
Copper by itself is enough. I learnt that by doing this video. Thanks for watching!
Did you stir or shake the can of paint? I've used two different brands of conductive paint in my guitars and have never had a lack of conductivity. If you did shake or stir the paint maybe you had a really bad batch.
I am a big stirrer.:)
Few questions: Doesn't it kill some of the frequencies? Can I use aluminum tape? (it's what I have laying around) Do you have to shield the holes for the wires?
Yes, IMHO:
As long as you build a decent Faraday mini cages for the noisy pick up cavities (single coil is the worst), you will be fine .Shield the wire by using braided copper ones rather than shielding the holes.
Quite informative. Lessons learned: Conductive paint sucks. Even high end guitars can need mods. Conductive paint is the only way to (partially) shield wire path holes. Question: I liked the idea of connecting cavity's with a guitar string, but might the (mix) of copper bonded with steel (the string) create some electrolysis? I will use a strand of bare copper myself and it will be easier to mold in. Thank you for the video on this.
kidritalin1 you will have electrolytic action (I.e. corrosion) due to the dissimilar metals, particularly in areas (read "coastal") of high humidity.
For a couple of pennies you can avoid the problem by using stranded copper wire.
Quite a difference.
I was sure it was there for something, thanks for the info👍😀
My pleasure!
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Andy why did you use paint AND copper? For grounding? Why use the paint at all? I haven't found any videos that show using conductive paint only, and then how to ground the paint. How do you ground it if you just use conductive paint? Just put a screw through and attach your ground wire to the screw?
After I learned that paint wasn't a good idea, I think that I said in the video that from now on I would only use copper tape.
@@andymacksoundvision I'm sorry I missed that. After shopping around for awhile I found a small bottle of conductive paint on eBay. I think it was around $10 and came with a screw with a ground wire and a brush to apply it with. I also bought some copper tape from Amazon. Walmart sells the copper tape for gardening, suppose to repel slugs, but it was more expensive than Amazon. I have 2 guitars, on of which I'm building. I'll probably put the copper in that one and try the paint on the one I play now. Thanks for your reply.
great video, tyvm. noticed there are quite a few diff types of copper tape, should i look for: EMI Shielding? or ? also what widths for a home made 1 of a kind telecaster.
I just got my tape today, after I bought the paint and found out it's not that great, would you use both or just forget the paint? It was only $90 lol oh and also does the paint stick to polyurethane paint or does it need to be sanded back?
great job! that copper showing through the top pickup would piss me off tho
Why wouldn't you test the paint for continuity before using it? Also, why a guitar string instead of any normal copper wire to connect all the taped cavities?
Michael Petford The paint was tested but it does not have anywhere near the same conductive (and therefore shielding) value as copper. I used a guitar string because its stiffness makes it easier to poke though drill holes.
I don't totally understand using a guitar string to connect all the parts. It seems like it would be easier and far more reliable to just solder fine wire to the copper from one cavity to another. I believe this is what most people do
A guitar string is a fine wire with the benefit of being stiff enough to thread though the small cavity holes.
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right on dude, i'm glad ur happy! haha. thanks for the informational video.
Thanks for watching!
What type of rewiring did you do, could you elborate on that please.
One of my guitars has a lot of feedback, so I'm very interested in figuring that out as well.
Cheers.
Brilliant!!
Doing a telecaster build right now and up to the point of shielding the cavities. You convinced me to use the tape and not the paint. Do I need to put a ground wire to the bridge?
Yes it has to be connected either with a wire or tape etc.
So did you ever have to solder the guitar string connecting the front and back cavities? meaning there was no need to solder?
Yes I did solder the ends.
@@andymacksoundvision and the soldering is just to keep the string in place. The actual solder has no conductivity right? Is there something else besides solder I can use like maybe glue to keep the string in place?
@@notab7626 Solder is conductive. If I didn't have solder I'd tape the string down.
I'd day this is a bit overkill for a < 20Khz faraday cage, but hey, it works!
Question: Is the copper conductive tape available at local hardware stores like Lowes ( in the US ) the same thing or do I need a special made for the guitar product...???
I need to get mine done soon. You convinced me not to go with the paint and I cancelled my order for that. Answer...???
Thomas De Lello Sorry I can't say. I live in Australia and I have never seen copper tape in any store. However, copper is copper, if it has an adhesive backing, use it!
GuitarGeniusCom Well... I should check to see that the adhesive glue is also conductive then.
Thomas De Lello Buy it online, next day delivery, if you're in US. S'easy.
Thomas De Lello What you can do is simply put double-sided tape on aluminium foil, that's cheap and you'll end up with plenty of very good adhesive shielding tape. This is what I've always done and it's perfect.
The only counterpart is that you'll have a little less "Mojo" ^^
Andy Mack Sound and Vision I live in Ireland and you can buy slug tape which is basically copper tape for €1.50 for a small roll. I'd say that you'd probably be able to do a entire guitar with 3 rolls
Would you recommend shielding the underside of a pickguard as well? (Some sources state that that's an area that also needs to be treated. I'm a newbie to this sort of thing, so, I dunno.)
Seth Tyrssen Yes, I would recommend shielding the underside of the pick guard.
Thanks!
great jod!! i would like to know if u did solder anything to the coper tape??? how is it removing noise?
What was the purpose of the guitar string in the bridge pick up position and it going down to the volume tone pot area, it was around 15:48 within the video ?
If you wouldn't mind explaining it please.
I used it instead of a standard wire to connect to different parts of the shielding. I used a guitar string as its stiffness made it easy to poke through a hole.
Thank you
I had similar poor results with graphite paint. Guys, save your money and use aluminum or copper. It's tried and true, it won't flake off, it doesn't need 3 coats and it will still be doing its job long after you are dead. The paint is easy and fun until you put your meter on it.
Why dont guitar companys just do this at the factory? Id pay a little bit more at least as an option
more steps, and brass is expensive. It take more time so you can get this only on good guitars when builders is willing also to do it...
Deathlycream ...I'll chime in and say even "GOOD" guitars don't have this done. One must define what is meant by "GOOD" or "high dollar", but most don't have it; i.e. even the big name brand and/or many of the custom guitars. Also, some simply don't MIND the hum. It's kind of "old school" in a sense like listening to scratchy vinyl records, or pristine and clean CDs.
Carvin does.
my cort kx5 came with paint
Deathlycream t
Maybe didn’t need to use paint? I’ve seen guys do three coats of conductive paint.... good vid and slick trick with the wire
No, I didn't need to use paint. I didn't know that at the start.
sounds good
Great demonstration.Do you need to do any grounding on the hardware?Cheers
I'm about to shield my guitar just like you did, but I have three quick questions!
1. I've got 10 year old shielding paint in my control cavity. Is it still good and conductive, or no?
2. Is shielding the trem cavity necessary if I just ground the spring claw?
3. If I DO shield the trem cavity, should I get a plastic cover for it and shield that too?
Do it all, and do it with copper tape is my advice.
@@andymacksoundvision I've got some brand new shielding paint. I'll put a fresh coat over the old paint, then cover it all with copper. Sound ok? Thanks!
@@dsargent724 sounds good. Make a video and show us your work!
Yes, Yes, Yes. Do what Andy Does, he knows the best way.
Is the guitar string mandatory?? I’ve never heard of that before
Do whatever works brother.
I done my les paul with XGP flat conductive paint, its quiet as a church mouse.
Colorado USA Lakewood: I'm thinking about doing the same thing good thing I saw your video sounds really out of sight bro
Hi, did you connect all the shielding to the Jack's ground when wiring ?
Yes I did.
@@andymacksoundvision thx
Where did you get your copper tape from man?
Stewart Mccdonald aka StewMac.
So even though at the end of the video you mention you won't use the conductive paint again, is it still recommended?
+Pat Rogers I would only use it in areas where you need shielding but can't get copper foil or shielded wires in there. IE, where holes are drilled to feed wires through.
+GuitarGeniusCom Gotcha, thanks man.
Conductive paint is not as good as copper tape - you need to make sure that the glue on the tape is also a conductor, otherwise its only top of the copper tape which is a conductor. You must make sure the bottom is also.
I have never needed to shield an guitar I have made. As long as the guitar and amp is earthed then no noise. I have made 2 strats, a tele and a Les Paul.
I live in the UK, so we have a third prong in the electrical socket which contains the earth connector, the guitars are earthed, the amps are earthed and had no noise.
The issue with noise seems to only affect countries who don't always have an earth connection in the mains electrical socket.
Are you telling me that positions 1, 3 and 5 on you strat don't have extraneous RF noise? Australia has 3 prong plugs with an earth.
@@andymacksoundvision no, I have had no noise with any of my guitars. Maybe I am lucky, but I have played in some dodgy places - where it's advisable to use a radio linkup, Even with a full cable link I have never had any noise.
The Faraday cage which is created is basically an RF filter. If the guitar and amp and speakers are fully earthed - this included the cable as co-ax cable should be connected to earth too,to reduce noise. If any part is not properly earthed you will get noise, which is erronious electrical signals on the live connector, earthing prevents this..
Can you tell me about your guitar?
I see beautiful design with lotta toggles.
Very curious to know about full guitar
iguitarworkshop.com/iguitar9113usb.aspx
it is necessary to use copper tape or can I use aluminium foll??
You can use aluminium foil but it is not as strong or as conductive as copper tape.
Ok. Nice vid Andy Mack Sound and Vision. Perfect for my new guitar. Have you ever seen one of these? Thoughts? My Next Guitar
hello sir thanks for your video, please help me i have graphite powder how to mix it what liquid is that i can use for mix it
Julio Cavalera Sorry but I don't know.
Julio Cavalera . You could mix it with epoxy but what are you trying to do? It won't be as effective as copper tape for shielding.
Do you think the paint would have done the same job without the copper?
The paint would have been enough, I have done it with the paint, and yes the paint is very messy, the copper tape is overkill. I would have masked the entire guitar, and used nitrile or latex gloves to keep clean. The copper tape is normally added to the electronics cover plate and the tremolo plate only, since it is expensive. What we want to do is create a Faraday Cage around all the electrical components, like how a microwave is shielded, the key thing is to make sure it conducts electricity all around the cage, so keeping the cover plates in contact with the paint is important.
The copper tape is probably overkill, but if it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing!
Why do you need to shield the spring cavity? There is no circuitry there.
There is a pickup behind it.
Oh, I see. That's a good idea!
you get the smallest droplet on the wood its stained for life it went under the masking and stained the hell out of my guitar youse the tape
Question: It would be the same effect if you would use ALU tape?
You can but its a little harder to get the conductivity with aluminum tape since it has more adhesive on the bottom. One way I worked around this was by l all the alu tape and then using very small pieces of copper tape to connect those layers or by scraping off some of the adhesive on the bottom of the alu tape before placing the piece atop another. With copper tape you dont have to worry about that.
BTW, nice job with the copper tape.
garyrich2000 Thanks!
Faraday Cage!! The copper tape is the bomb.. The shielding paint not so much..
Headknocker the graphite paint gets the job done in instruments with relatively quiet electronics, but it's not as good as copper/aluminum. I use a nickel conductive spray coating (MG Chemicals Super Shield), and it's just as conductive according to an ohm meter as aluminum, with a negligible increase in resistance vs. copper (electrically continuous, for our purposes here, is electrically continuous). It works wonderfully and takes a small fraction of the time copper tape does with no chance of the paint folding up and interfering with stuff you don't want grounded like the tape is bad for doing in tight pickup cavities and such. It's awesome.
Friend excellent tutorial!! Can you tell me the value on you multimeter use?
Do you mean the price or the setting I use?
so you have to run a ground wire from the copper tape to a pot right?
not if the top of the pot is touching the tape
anthony10370 Yes, correct.
Wow that worked good,,thanks :)
Thanks for watching!
I have strats guitar, one question, do i need to shield at back? I mean at springs part
The more shielding, the less noise. I would always shield as much as possible. Good luck!
@@andymacksoundvision thanks for information
so you didn´t really needed to paint it, you could have just sanded it and taped it?
Yep...