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Vintage Talbot Horizon | Vintage Volkswagen | Fuel Consumption | Economy Car | 1981
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- čas přidán 23. 02. 2019
- Presenters Pam Rhodes and Tony Bastable take a look at the new devices being added to cars to help the driver save on fuel consumption. This cut down package feature offerings from:
Talbot Horizon and Volkswagen.
First shown: 15/10/1981
If you would like to license a clip from this video please e mail:
archive@fremantle.com
Quote: VT25512
I'll give my late father's Horizon two things: it probably had the best ride of anything I have even driven or been driven in, and those huge Marchal headlights were absolutely incredible at turning night into day.
43 mpg round town is good now. Wow - stop start in 81, I never knew that.
It's actually 15% better than the official ece fuel economy tests estimated. Unless the eco meter is highly optimistic 😉
I was thinking the same thing. The start stop was added to Porsche 981, although that comes off when you’re in sport mode....So mine never uses it. The shift indicator too...
The car is made of tinfoil, no safety systems beyond seatbelts in the front. Any modern car would spank it on the mpg.
Jack Beanstalk fuck off loser.
Its weird he says it only came on those models, as at this time it also came on the polo, it had a rocker switch like the fog light switch by your knee, it said SSA on it iirc , worked great unless you had taken a fast drive as the engine didnt like to fire up quick enough after that and took a couple of goes.
I had the Dodge Omni - the American Talbot Horizon- and that used to return incredible MPG too, especially when i`d be walking to and from petrol stations with my Jerrycan.
🤣🤣🤣
Perfect! 🤣
Stop/Start wasn't a new thing in the early 80's. I had a Mark 3 Cortina from the 70's. It was always stopping!
Barry Allen but was it always starting?
@@colind9638 Not without a challenge!!!
Yep my Ford Escort did the same
My father had a 1969 Skoda. It broke down on day one and consistently continued to do the same.
Haha. I know what you mean. I had a Marina like that, always cut out at the lights. Who'd have thought BL and Ford were at the cutting edge all those years ago.
I learned to drive on a Horizon. My driving instructor was also a professional Elvis Impersonator, and would sometimes burst into an Elvis song mid lesson.
That must have been a spectacle to see!
As a continental European I was FREAKING OUT when she pulled away in the TALBOT...”LADY, you’re going in the WRONG LAN...oh. Nevermind.” 😅
It's incredible to see that so many features we think of as recent and modern have been around for decades like the gear change indicator and the start stop function (which I hate by the way)
Yes…and I hate it as well
The distinctive sound of the talbot ohv engine!
Every Sunday morning i look forward to these
I really liked and still like the shape of the talbot horizon ...👍👍👍
the delightful Pam Rhodes
Pam Rhodes looks very nice
Yes, she looks lovely.
I have a friend who has a white Talbot Horizon. It is in amazing condition and drives almost like a new car. The Talbot is much better than most people think.
Horizon is a beautiful car, also today.
If you compare it to the Kadett D there is virtually no difference other than the front and tail lights.
Got to love those clunky push buttons on the Horizon’s on board trip computer!
Talbot Horizon still on the road Registered August 1981
Whoa! That's quite remarkable...the Force is strong with this one.
I passed my test in a Horizon in 1981, great car.
Year I was born
@@kf5541 Great well done
Fast H Racing thanks 😉
Tony as always deeply unimpressed with the state of the world 👍🏼😂
Rightfully so, methinks.
Guy’s a legend long after his demise
He really should of changed his surname..might of cheered him up a bit.
I've got into these old clips and have to agree with you! Seems very hard to please!
I think Tony is what would have been known at the time as 'uncompromising', seen as more of a virtue at the time. I don't think he would have given anyone a gold star just for taking part.
I remember when the Volkswagen Golf looked like this. At the time, I didn't find the Golf very attractive, at least next to the Talbot/Plymouth Horizon. But today, I find these old cars more attractive than today's Volkswagen Golf.
Stop/start has an inevitable toll on batteries and starter motors though
Every time I see Tony Bastable in a vintage car review he looks like he would rather punch someone than review a car.
The Horizon was quite a revolutionary car for its time when you think about it. Why ever did we choose ropey old Austin’s over this?!
They made those Horizons in Finland town Uusikaupunki, where they manufacture MB A-series and CLG model today. Those days Horizon was least wanted car for its quality reasons. Thats why there are almost none survived these days.
@Emon Vantasa Really? One that my old man had was a brilliant car.....a darn sight better than the 2 Ford Sierras he had after it. Did you ever own a Talbot Horizon to make that claim?
You obviously never drove one.
They were appalling cars.
@Emon Vantasa Did you own one? I did and it was a good car.
Emon Vantasa Electronic points, 5 speed box, spacious interior with a compact exterior. I guess I mean revolutionary when you read the spec sheet against the equivalent metro which probably outsold it 3 to 1.
The Horizon was a brilliant car indeed. Haters gonna hate anyway.
:-)
Phaidrus I had a Talbot Horizon as my first car after passing my driving test in 1991, I thought it was a fantastic car.
Yeah people always go on about the tappety engines but for some reason the Peugeot 309 with the same engine was forgiven this.
I had one. Rusted like F. If you went through a deep puddle, water would spurt out the top of the wings. Eventually the suspension died and I sold it to the Army for riot training. Oh yeah, and if you wanted it to start, everyone in the car had to jiggle back and forth.
hater here , broke down constantly after two years of use (Plymouth Horizon)
Anyone else notice that Pam didn’t have her seatbelt on when she started to drive off, but the next shot from outside the car she had her belt on.
Those Horizon seats look really comfortable. Probably designed by the French side rather than the British. Comfier than church pews for Songs of Praise Pam.
Pam Rhodes looking lovely here.
My first car was a Talbot Horizon.
You peasants, I had a brown solara 1.6 LS 5 speed.😁 CUB240Y
So was mine. 4355KI. Irish car. It was better that walking.
They were brilliant cars,it was also my first car when I passed my test in 1991.
Heathrow airport must have moved since 1981, never knew it used to be in Central London 🙄
You learn something every day 😉
@@sanderdejong66 I hope that was sarcasm, it’s not in C London even today. In fact it was in Middlesex later to become amalgamated into London
I had a x reg golf 1.1, it was slow as hell when it worked. Love these vintage videos.
Pam was ever so nice, :-)
The Horizon was really the car that saved Chysler in the 1980s, since the K-car was based on the Horizon platoform and just about everything Chrysler made after that, including the 4-door Imperial sedan, the Caravan/Voyager minivans and the "Executive Sedan" limmo were based on the K-car . From what I've heard , Simca and Chrysler-UK started the project, but Chrylser (which had shed its European divisions in 1978) , using various engines from VW, Simca, Mitsubishi and their own 2.2, 2.5 and 3.3L offerings, ended up taking it a lot further. I doubt anyone on the original design team had any notion of how important the car would ultimately be.
Simca (France) and Hillman (UK) were owned by Chrysler since the mid 1960s. To replace ageing saloons from both companies Chrysler had Simca engineer a modern new car that would be styled by Chrysler UK (Roy Axe of Hillman) to be sold as a Simca in France and Europe and a Chrysler in UK (Hillman name was retired in '76). First came the Chrysler Alpine launched in 1975, this went on to be the basis for the K platform in the States. A smaller derivative of the Alpine platform was the Horizon.
@@dcanmore The most surprising thing about the US vs. UK Horizons is that while the exterior styling was almost identical, they shared very little mechanically and had no common body panels due to the tooling requirements of the plants on either side of the Atlantic. Even the Torqueflite transmissions and Talbot engines were of slightly different variations and the torsion-bar suspension of the European models was replaced with struts for the USA. Chrysler was hoping for a "world car", but the devil was in the details.
Consider this also those car ment Chrysler could buy and thus save a failing Lamborghini by 1987. Mainly the aluminium casting expertise Lamborghini had The viper V10 using Complex alloy castings. Failing that Lamborghini would have faded away as VAG was nowhere near the power house they are today.
I didn't realise stop start as been around for so long 👍
Fiat claims they were the first manufacter to include it with the Regata, but before of this, Toyota made it possible with the Crown back in 1974.
@@TRISTANorTRIS the only thing you do differently is press one button on the wiper stalk. No faffing about really.
I liked the diesel Talbot Horizon, it was even more frugal than the petrol versions.
Had a 1983 Passat formel e back in the day and after a while I didn't take much notice of the light coming on to tell me to change gear, bit of a gimmick really.
Also that Talbot's engine has already started knocking it's nuts off.
I always used to claim as a kid that I knew when my uncle was about to arrive in 3 minutes time because I could hear the clattering of his Horizon. It was a 1983 car and this would have been late 80s so it'd only have been 5 years old. At that age I had no idea it was caused by tappets, but I did know that whenever a Horizon went past it clattered like HELL! Ditto for the Solara belonging to my friend's mum.
My current daily driver is an 88 Mini, which of course also has pushrods and tappets, but they're remarkably quiet as long as they're adjusted once a year.
Just what was it about the design of the Talbot engines that made the tappets so noisy?
The only other thing I remember about my uncle's Horizon was that the indicators used to tick AND beep, which seemed very weird.
Love how every one of these videos refer to the driver as he
Oooh, that's a Tagora parked behind her at the Talbot headquarters. Pity she didn't get to take that for a spin.
UKV 3X - on the road until 1993.
Lifespan 12 years. Not so brilliant.
It actually is not bad for a Talbot Horizon. Many of them were in their graves before the 10 year mark.
It sounds positively agricultural when Pam gets back off of her drive!
Not many cars lasted more than 10 years back in the '70s.
@@jareknowak8712 I would say about average for a car of 1981
In the states the Horizon model for high fuel economy was called the " Miser " and was fitted with a 1.6L 62 bhp Simca engine. They claimed 50 MPG here too
I disagree. I'm fairly certain it was the 1.6 liter Vollswagen engine for America.
I disagree, the engine's available for the USA were a VW based 1.7L then Chryslers added a 2.2L Chrysler designed 4 cylinder. Then Chrysler dropped the VW engine and replaced it with a 1.6L Simca / Peugeot 4 cylinder. The 1.6L was only available on miser models.
These were sold in the US as the Plymouth Horizon until 1990.
Heavily decontented for the US market. Much like the Ford Escort.
My first ever car, beautiful vehicle, basically it's a lovechild between Simca and an avenger. Very nice. I wish I still had it though I doubt any have survived till now, not in their original state anyway
robert sollory even the Simca thinks that's blasphemy .
" lovechild between Simca and an avenger"
nice one
:-D
The Avenger was a completely different car. Different engine, rear wheel drive, age-old platform. There are a couple of them left, but apart from Simca club meetings I never see one, not even in its native country France.
@@volvo480 Age old platform it may have been but they provided utterly reliable transport for many.
You can still find some Dodge Omnis/Plymouth Horizons in the USA - same car with American styling. Every now and again some come available for sale in near mint condition! Completely different powertrain choices to the European Horizons though.
The Omni and Horizon went out of production after the 1990 model year, long enough to earn driver's side airbags!
Sen sors
That's how the Daleks would say it.
nitrorory 🤣🤣 Beat me to it!! 😂😂
These were the days when people actually spoke correct English...
Must be a Vulcan.
All learner cars have the stop/start, just that they stop as the lights turn green :-D
From an era when motoring programmes were about affordable cars & not a vehicle for the ego's of its presenters.
Pam I wonder if she liked stop start
More car videos like these please!
The Talbot looks very nice, inside and out. I know this car, but wasn't aware of (or had forgotten) her nice looks!
the ancestor of the STOP & GO system
My VW pole 1.4 3 cylinder TDI has been doing great in lockdown I’ve been averaging two tank fulls a year
Talbot Horizon is the "Car of the Year '79"
RVINDVNCE
During that period, Fiat had 7 cars of the year.
That's the reason it's a meaningless award.
@@sportshatch not meaningless, it's an award for most worthy cars of the time, as it says. not most beautiful or powerful.
Funny how technology has evolved, i have a 2018 Hyundai i20 with a 1248cc 85HP petrol engine in a Mk5 Golf sized car yet i never need to go above 2000rpm in city traffic since the engine pulls like a diesel between 1000-2000rpm and my avrg fuel consumption for one year has been 5.4 liters/100km 52.3 mpg.
Wow thats great
Thanks for this video. ;)
I never knew there was a version of Stop/Start as early as 1981 - but then there was nothing for about 20 years?
That ‘stop start’ process is surely more of a fiasco than simply turning the ignition key on and off?! 😂
3:04. Audi still looks modern now!
My Dad had two of those...... after a maxi leyland expirience
One like that and another b reg two years after.
I took that one over and drove it for several years.
I had have it back now f'sure..........
Horizon is filmed at Whitley, now Jaguars design centre.
And Tony is outside what is today the Renaissance Heathrow hotel...it basically looks the same today, but I bet the rooms are nicer.
Looks more like Ryton to me. When the barrier goes up, you can see the big roundabout
@@newuk26 Looking at it again I think you are right.
@@grahamariss2111 No I think your right now lol. The buildings behind her seem too close to the exit to be Ryton. I remember at Ryton there being quite a distance between the entrance and the buildings
@@newuk26 Well i thought that, but then the road beyondthe security gate lacks the big open (and badly maintained)car parks and has too many trees (i recall it geing a very open area) and disused air raid shelters before you got to the traffic island to take the bridge over the A46, with the disused and closed road being straight on to Whitley village. But the building did look like Whitley as I recall (probably last time i stood there was 1981, when i wouod get a lift home from my dad zfter school), but then they were both Shadow factories from the same time, so quite likely they shared architecture styles.
Nice looking car. I've heard of the Talbot Horizon. Other than the name, and the emblem, it looks like our American market Plymouth Horizon.
Jason Carpp Talbot was owned by Chrysler at the time and this particular car was the basis for the Omni/Horizon.
@@williamegler8771 That explains it. :)
Impressive Ordinateur de Bord
@Retro Collected I think it just says 'Bastable' plain and simple - he must be a fan.
Ferruccio Lamborghini
From the bonnet of a 1963 350 GTV
Stop/start was already in the early 80s?
Can you really imagine Pam Rhodes driving like a maniac?!!
Stop-start tech in the 80's with Passat is ground-breaking IMO.
2:25 - "You may be a little worried about the car telling you what to do".... Phah! Welcome to 2020, where you no longer drive the car, it drives you! He'd probably have a nervous breakdown lol
Still looks good
Renault also went the Talbot way with their larger-engined GTL models of the 5, 14 and other models. It worked... But only up to a point.
Likewise the VAG Formel E models.... Good.... But up to a point. None of these economy models was easy to shift used. The Horizon disappeared very quickly and without trace or much regret from owners. The VW Formel E models dragged on in one form or another.... But very slowly.
I still find it impossible to believe the Talbot Horizon shared no parts with its American Dodge/Plymouth counterparts. They look identical.
My Mercedes 190 was three years younger than the Talbot and got up to 55mpg but it was diesel!
Great video,keep it up!₩
I had a Horizon. A bright yellow one. Engine seized one day but prior to that it was a decent drive.
At last a decent comment from someone who actually OWNED AND DROVE one! My old man loved his Horizon.
So many memories...
Horizons were OK , on par with the build quality of most things back then and was quite roomy too!! , one of the best cars to change a clutch on , mounts were all on the engine and cable gearchange , pull out the driveshafts , unclip all the cables and unbolt the box , try that on a fiesta or metro!!!!
Not as good as the vauxhall front wheel drives, you didn't have to remove the gearbox
I had a Horizon and it was a good little car and was very economical. It rotted like crazy though but it was reliable. It kept on going and going, dragging itself along like some injured animal, but it never broke down. Rot got the better of it after about only 10 years.
Just goes to show that stop start isn't a recent invention.
Most likely it took close to an additional 3 decades from the video to make them RELIABLE ENOUGH to put those in Stateside vehicles. With early '80s reliability it was doubtful the Government would approve those systems for sale....
syxepop to be fair; early 80s was when cars DID become reliable and able to be used day in, day out without issue. That’s why if you want a slice of retro for your everyday car; early to late 80s is a good choice. Mechanically and generally electrically; they were very good. It was the rust in the body that let them down
stop start isn`t really saving you much money even on modern cars once you have worn out ten starter motors in its lifetime! And the pollution to produce those starter motors outweighs any environmental cost.
@@MonkeyHunch1 modern cars with stop start have much heavier duty starter motors. Also supposed to have uprated bearings etc too. I do tend to switch mine off most of the time but if I know there will know I the journey involves lots of slow traffic lights I turn it on. It does make a big difference to MPG in certain types of traffic.
Personally though I prefer to have it switched off.
@@p166mx If it was an option on my daily driver i`d have it switched off. But my daily driver is 20 years old and pollutes less than most modern cars:)
Lad down the road from me had the Derby Formel E. Had it years from new, got rid in about 1996. Aleays wondered what the badge meant, Big Tony put me straight. Id love a Talbot these days, just for the retro value.
I do find the start bit funny as putting a bigger engine in a small car was the recipe for the muscle car and they used alot more fuel with the bigger mills than the smaller ones! The talbot was only officially rated at 51.4mpg at 56mph constant speed. Even RR back then said theirs cars were good for 18-20mpg, but ece tests reckoned only 14 or so. I think stop start was a failure back then as the starter motors would burn out too soon as only good for about 10,000 starts. All stop start tech today is good for 100,000 starts because the pistons are always stopped with at least one in top dead center so restarting is as quick as it can be.
I used to get fifty to the gallon out of my Avenger back in the eighties it was easy!! I just lied 😆
What a beautiful car!! 😂😂😂
Horizons were fine cars till the head gasket issues started. When that happened you became the proud owner of a Talbot Horrizon... All round a nice car for the time though I never liked those white rims and pale bumpers. Peugeot 309 actually replaced the gap left by the Horizon after the extinction of Talbot cars.
The 309 was designed as Talbot Arizona, until Peugeot management decided to kill off the entire brand and renamed it to Peugeot 309. The basic version of the first series had the same noisy engine as the Talbot Horizon, and the bonnet latch was a Simca 1000 door handle.
The Plymouth Horizon here started with Vollswagen engines, then ended with Mitsubishi engines. Were they ever equipped with Simca 1.6 in the States? Some say it was sold on a version called the "Miser" but I'm unsure if Simca had engines in America.
Yes. From 1983-1986, the Simca 1.6 was the base engine and the 2.2 from the K-cars was the performance option. I assume that the VW engine had become too expensive and the antiquated 1.6 was good enough for the base model. From 1987, onward, the 2.2 became standard.
“The place where the airplanes are actually taking off”.........you mean the runway 😅
Stop / Start does little for the longevity of your starter motor though....
I think the American version was the 1978-1990 Dodge Omni/Plymouth Horizon Omni 024 and Plymouth Turizmo TC3 were all based off of the Talbot Horizon, I thank.
At 3:09. Must have been filmed just before Chris Goffey moved to Top Gear?
My first car was a pale orange Talbot Sunbeam.. fab little car .. but ended up being a rot box .. PWP264V ..lol
Here in Spain it was a very popular the Talbot Horizon in the 80,s.
My friend had a talbot sunbeam it was really good on fuel when he gave it a bit of welly he managed 50 feet to the gallon it was the sunbeam TI version a 1.6 with twin 40s Webber carbs he often said it was the most uneconomical car he ever owned but one of the best sounding and most fun to drive. He once managed 30ish mpg on a run but would normally manage low 20 it ran lick a pig unless you gave it some stick so good mpg was a pipe dream.
My bro had an 82 golf formel e one of his best cars ever
Wow, they were ahead of their time with the stop/start thing!
Hey Tony, the 1970's called...they'd like their flared trousers back.
VW telling you electronically details on fuel consumption...... trustworthy?
David Hayes probably not but I think we should forgive them their sins 😂
Maybe BACK THEN, but their GR€€D caught up with their customers much later on....
@@syxepop VW are serial offenders, first caught in early 70's fiddling emissions in the US!
It's funny how much the car market is still the same 40 years on.
My parents had a 1980 Horizon 1.3 LS. I hated it but only because they had to sell their cool 1979 Vauxhall Royale 2800 6 cylinder as it was costing them too much to run.
Those Passat B2s look good. I also really like those instrument light bulbs which were also used on the later mark 2 Golf and Jetta iirc.
Here is me thinking stop/start was invented in 2012 Too!
We used get 50mpg out of our Golf Formel E but it was so slow that we sold it after a short time and went back to a car with adequate power.
I had caddy van for a very short while which had i think 60 bhp. I think the 0 60 would havebeen about 20 seconds. If you got stuck behind a tractor here was nothing you could do.
Fortunately some one pulled out on me and write it off soon after.
Gear shifting indicator? My Ford Escort had that.
I had a Golf formal E 1.1. Getting overtaken by cyclists, the thing was so underpowered it was ridiculous! Putting an E instead of a 4 on the gear box, still don't understand the logic of that!
Hysterically old school
Yes tons better wasnt it?
Do you have any footage relating to the MK3 Ford Escort from 1980-
Bigger engine in a smaller Car improves economy even back then they were aware of this basic science.
nick brice
Funny my HSR Chevette only got 16mpg.
@@sportshatch compare gearing.....;-)
David Farmer
It was a joke.
It had 240 hp
@@sportshatch Sorry. Missed that one. Nice car.
@@sportshatch I had one too as it happens but only 56 hp.
Isn’t it strange that with the older cars they did more to the gallon than modern equivalents. Technology really has moved on hasn’t it
Well, today you're more likely to walk away from a major accident in a small car, and it's likely to go a lot further without issues.
Never noticed before that @ 0:26, an older gent peeks through the window, likely on the verge of exclaiming, "Get off of my roadway, with your pesky newfangled motorcar! Begone!" Ironically, it appears that he's also looking out from within a Talbot agency... 🤔