Are audiophiles mentally unstable?
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- čas přidán 1. 11. 2017
- Paul gets asked some off the wall questions but so far this one takes the cake. Are audiophiles unstable lunatics or just normal people. Paul shares two great stories never yet told us. Join him for a good laugh. Have your own question for Paul to answer? www.psaudio.com/ask-paul/
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Back in the days when I went to audio shows, I was surprised how many audiophiles seemed to have little interest in music. Demo discs went off in all directions. For a time the most important track was a garage door slamming. The used marketplace also shows a lot of recent equipment on sale, suggesting a lack of sense on the part of the original buyer. So yes I think there are a good deal of nuts in the audiophile world.
They listen unbalanced most of the time ;-)
Lol, I loved how you ended the mixed-up package recipient story with, “yeah! Pretty normal people...” 😂😂
"a sword fight with those big long things" cracked me up there Paul!
Like any hobby, you will find fanatics.
What stuns me is the sheer number of 'fanatics' in this hobby. How many people do you know who own ten televisions or refrigerators (in a suburban home) ? It's less common among those who listen with speakers, but headphone 'addicts' are everywhere. Take a look at some of the sigs on Head-Fi and its clear that some of us simply *never* move gear on to make way for the new toy : I get that when its a classic headphone but who the hell keeps a HD201 when they have the HD600/650/800 ? It's like parking a Yugo next to your Corvette, ffs ;)
If some twat hadn't wound the volume up too far destroying my Maruni electrostatic headphones back in the mid-70s, I suspect I'd still have them. Likewise my Sennheiser HD 414s except they self-destructed. They were a different listening experience. It's worth noting that headphones take up little room and consume far less energy and money than motor vehicles.
@@jonathansturm4163 I'm not particularly a headphone enthusiast, but it strikes me that the greatest contribution to a speaker based system is the room it is in. For that reason, headphones have to be the benchmark.
I’ve met a few audiophiles at shows (for owners systems, not commercial) that are passionate and highly eccentric, one guy that sticks in my mind was wearing a full yellow tartan suit with a long tailcoat and had a truly gigantic horn loaded system which cost more than my house... and didn’t sound very good.
An unstable person will always say that they're stable
That others like them are stable as well.
Is that from the horse's mouth?
Not true lol
I'm as unstable as monatomic hydrogen.
Informative and funny as always, thank you Paul. I have an old friend who spent $40K on an old Ford Mustang that I would consider a piece of junk, he laughs when I spend $350 on a set of cables. We are both passionate about our thing.
Audiophelia nervosa: that feeling that nothing is ever quite right.
G.A.S. Gear acquisition syndrome- the need to buy gear
In China, audiophelia is referred to as "the sickness" and some are indeed obsessed to the point of mental illness.
Continually spending money and changing gear every few months is not mentally healthy. Nor is continually getting into fights over a subjective thing. Nor is leveraging your obsessive spending like some exclusive thing to Lord over others who have not gone off the deep end.
I would compair audiophilia to lotto- people buy new tickets hoping for "lucky draw". Difference is that in that game total loosing of money is not likely, there are many lower prizes to win , But winning main prize by buying new tickets is almost unlikely becasus one should know the system. And sellers whisper - "buy better and more expensive combination of numbers". . A may say that in my whole life I've produced two much different systems which satisfied me so much that I only was only sacred to loose it. Manged to replicate my one and desired sounding in different rooms and with all different hardware. So I believe "I know" how to make it. Something I considered many years ago as .impossible to do. Now I wish only to keep it all around. Anyway no problem - I still may again get crazy with something else.
In China in the supermarkets they sell Wine from $2,000.00 to $13,500.00 a bottle. That goes well when listening to you stereo.
Your story really got me laughing. Hats off to you Paul.
Audiophiles are very stable until you question the $1000 dollar 6ft HDMI cable
I agree Paul, I'm a car guy/automotive engineer. Some would say I'm mentally unstable when I talk about cars but, it's really a passion. High end audio is a hobby to me.
I was in a hifi shop in Glasgow ,Scotland and within 10 minutes 3 different people wanted to fight me ,dangerous place
Great listening to you! Great insights!
Sword fighting w/dildos- “We’re pretty normal”. Lmao!
Investing in hi-fi is a far better habit than boozing, gambling, buying expensive clothing that you'll only wear once- plenty of things cost a huge amount of money that only bring short term pleasure. Being an audiophile doesn't have to be hugely expensive and it's long term joy that can last for years.
Paul,
Thanks again for another properly produced and well written video.
I believe that the original question was not about the presence of unstable, violent or physically destructive mental defect in audiophiles but about the potential for audiophiles to be insecure in themselves and wildly obsessed with audio equipment to the point of absurdity and potential harm to their lives and livelyhoods. The second part of the question about audio sales people refers to the potential of those salespeople to take advantage of the insecurity and obsession to sell audiophile customers equipment that does not improve on what the customer already has, at great cost, just to pad the sales peoples' bottom lines. The salespeople can do this because of the tendency of audiophiles to hear what they want to hear or are told to hear rather than what they actually hear.
There have been a number of actual statistically significant double blind studies over the years which debunk a number of claims made by audiophiles. Actual musicians of all genres also tend to disagree, sometimes vehemently, with claims made by audiophiles. When members of the non audiophile pubic, especially those with a STEM background such as doctors, engineers, etcetera, hear some of the claims made by audiophiles, and observe some of the claims without being presented with empirical research to back up the claims, those members of the public can become skeptical, critical, or even convinced of defective mental processes to arrive at those claims.
Stop listen to your gear instead listen to music.
Sara Mihaila somewhat true I have to agree but it sounds so much better and enjoyable one decent system it's more of an experience that's what music should be ..
Sara😂😂😂😂😂
Thank you for the talk :)
What percentage of people who have to have the latest greatest cell phone, video game clothes, car, ...... are unstable?
mike young hahaha, that’s brilliant! Agreed...
Everybody's got their passion. It makes the world go round. I have friends who wouldn't think twice about spending a fortune on their Harleys, Jeeps, horses, expensive scotch/cigars, Running shoes (air jordans), race cars, fitness equipment/memberships, over the top home reno's............ Problem? NO PROBLEM!
99%
all of them.
The Vegas story is hilarious. 😂
What happens in Vegas STAYS in Vegas!
yeah LMAO
Audiophile obsessions = Neurosis Extremus...a buddy of mine went insane after being convinced the capacitors in his power amp needed to be encased in bees' wax.
OMG, HELL YES! Audiophiles are quite mentally unstable indeed. I used to be one, so I ought to know. I still love good audio equipment, and I still have plenty of it. But I sure as hell don't lose my mind about it, or about possibly not having the latest greatest piece of shit which somebody wants to sell me. That includes Mr. PS Audio's million dollar audio cables and speakers. They just would NOT possibly make a bit of difference. Only if you think it does in your head. If you're that sort of audiophile, then you're building your life around your audio equipment, rather than adapting your audio equipment into your life. Above all else regarding this hobby, it's the music which matters the MOST. It's like the sort of idiot who has to buy a new car every six months. It never ends.
I think audiophiles are obsessive to a degree that quickly exceeds anything rational. For me the line where you lose your way is when how music sounds is taking more of your time and interest than the music itself does.
I listen to my music on a hifi system, audiophiles listen to their systems while they are playing music.
You, like myself, use our gear to play music. Audiophiles in effect play test tones to hear their gear.
I think it is funny that you remember where the porno convention was located but don’t remember where you were staying. Stories are wonderful. Your sales “trick” of listening is great advice for everyone in sales.
As soon as I saw the title for this video, I thought to myself I just had to watch this! 😂
I've been a stamp collector, coin collector, camera collector, vinyl and cd collector, book collector, etc., and I've found that, at least in my case, collectors have a perfectionist, obsessive spirit. This also applies to audiophiles and yes, I'm one of those, too. If that's mental illness, then I plead guilty.
Interesting, those traits are common to Asperger's (the lighter form of autism). Btw I've shared four of your collecting habits. I personally treat hifi as a puzzle to be solved: to identify best sound per component up to which the law of diminishing returns becomes close to zero or negative. I also feel as though I have pretty much achieved that goal to my own satisfaction, although it took a lot more effort than I had expected.
Thats really funny story. Thanks for sharing!!
When ever people say I am, or we are the most stable people, it is time to excuse myself. Actually, I was very busy.
This is why I got out of audio, I started when I was 8 and graduated to high end audio when I read my first issue of the abso!ute sound in he the mid 80's, by the late 90's I was more than happy to get out of it.Beside the insane costs of equipment its all the absolutely crazy people you have to put up with.Remember the george tice clock???
I started in HiFi retail in '70. Going from part time while in college for Electronics, to full time repping and travelling 6 states selling to and training retailers. I learned and then taught that a good salesperson helps a customer MAKE the purchase. Yes there are any number of sales tricks we employee. A good sales person will use them to HELP a customer make a buying decision. A bad salesperson will use them to con someone into buying something. A clerk will do neither.
But statistically some percent of audiophiles would be unstable, psychopaths, tall, short, ....
So Paul...is it really "all about the music" or, as Steve Guttenberg says .."all about the gear" ?
I don't think it is hard to respect both!
Music is my passion, my hobby is how I enjoy it.
For Steve Guttenberg, by his own admission, it's all about the gear and trying not to be overly analytical about things. Different strokes...
What is the source of the music peole listen to besides LPs. Internet is all compressed.
Yes. :D It varies. Sometimes it is all about the build (speakers, amps, etc.) for DIY'ers.
OMG... I literally just told my friend, in the midst of lamenting my currently inoperable amplifier that I was going to chain it around my ankles and chuck it in the ocean... Bizarre!
Yes. “Without music life would be a mistake.” - Nietzsche.
I'm sitting here imagining the current You, Scott and everyone else having a huge "swordfight".
Wow. *That* one really hit home for me! But we're not as bad as other types.
Danny Woods The more you spread the sickness, the more normal we become. Tie me to a chair and force me to listen to music. Oh, the torture!
When listening for difference, an almost always used trick is to tell the audience what they shall here of difference: "and now the omnidynamic 2VII cable! If you listens you will here a more defined bass, a higher headroom…." . And there are two reason for him doing that, It primes you and tells your brain what it should here and on top of that, It is impossible for humans to remember so fine details in more than 10-20 seconds, so his speech is to insure that your brain know what to expect to hear and have enough time to forget how the "before" sounded.
To round the trick of, he will ask: "how many could here the CLEARLY MORE defined bass?!
I bet you have already experienced that if you have been to any a hi-fi show. :-)
I laughed so hard when I read the title lmao
Best story thus far. Hope it makes it in the book.
So when the book comes out are you going to accompany it with books on high bias, open reel, mastering tape for us crazy audio files? Lol just kidding. Have a good one. :)
We have so much and we are still always unhappy. As Lou would say: We have so much, to you who have so little, to you who don't have anything at all.
If pedophilia is a crime, so is audiophilia.
My wife seems to think different Paul, when I come with a new amp or speaker's, she's like "Are you crazy, what did you buy that for, you must be mad spending all that money" so by her book I'm totally certifiable! LOL 🤪🤣😂😃😄😁😊🙂
I went to Vegas once for CES and the Adult Video News was going on at the same time. I got to see a lot of well known porn stars walking by. My favorite speakers at that show were the Sound Labs which sounded almost the same as my Acoustats.
To me it's about making my music sound better but i only buy used hi fi stuff . Because i am spending more money on music . And as you know old speakers never really die as long as you can rebuild them thank god for that .
There used to be a funny video of these 'crazy' Greek audiophiles on CZcams, but the fun Police blocked the whole audio content due to a copyright claim :s
so I'm building a system and questioning my stability. and then I see this.
As long as you don't attempt to tell people who aren't interested what they have is garbage then it really doesn't matter what you decide to do in the hobby as long as it doesn't ruin you financially. A lot of people just enjoy the upgrading and trying stuff out as much as the listening. A lot of people miss that. It isn't purely about the music. Music is only part of the fun. My brother couldn't care less about my audiophile headphones and so I don't try anymore to persuade him to upgrade. He is truly in it for the music. Could he do better? Sure. But if he is happy then it really doesn't matter. Maybe I envy him a little but I enjoy upgrading, listening, and learning about what affects sound. It is a part of the hobby. Probably why active speakers aren't more popular despite their obvious benefits because you can't mix and match components.
sword fights......I dont know when I last laughed THAT hard.
Let's be honest. Audiophilia is the situation where you seek to have the most representative and accurate recording of a performance in your own space. In that sense it is a pursue of convenience and time. The best representation one can have of music is actually being there. So If one has spent 100k on audio gear, imagine how many concerts they could have attended... Instead they choose to fuff around with gear. So it is not a pursue due to love of music. Is a pursue of convenience.
That story was great
As an audiophile, I find the question highly offensive. The answer is: Yes.
Absolutely.
Did he use a 245 triode for a sex toy? It has better Freudian symbolism than the 833-A which has my personal favorite sound.
Just use your gear everyday until it wears out.
Funny story, thanks :)
It's just another form of desireable "Spiritual Madness"
I find reactions to my system run all the way from people who rave about the imaging and dynamics to people who would just as soon listen to a clock radio. Those clock radio people don’t get it and think I’m a little nuts. That’s fine with me.
I think what the questioner was getting at is our unending quest for the best we can afford, always hoping it will be good enough to make the magic happen, to transport us to a place of total immersion and pleasure. I find that while occasionally there are times that it happens for me, it is unpredictable and less common than I would like. The hobby does not stand still. You can say that of an aficionado, I suppose.
Well discribed! I have that urge too.
And tell you what: that magic happened after évery upgrade that I made.
So the addiction is only natural.
Well, technically a spin is stable which is why the early mail pilots used an intentional spin to get below the cloud deck when caught on top. Of course they were counting on the ceiling being more than 1000 feet. :D
That was really funny .. you handled it magnificently...
I'm a professional recording engineer .. I deal with everything that goes into recordings .. you do your best to unravel it ..
I'd love to have a big long chat to you one day about your IRS's.... oh and bi wiring too....
Bye for now ..
The story is hilarious.
I guy I know - old and a bit deaf like me, he reckons to be able to tell the difference "better electricity" makes if you use old rubber insulated, cloth covered mains cable, you only get now for electric irons????
I think they are more stable than most people, how many to day can be sitting still long enough and listening to two-channel music?
I like your RCA dog!
Luce deforme como la cabeza de mi tío
If he remembers right. Wink Wink
MY FAMILY ALSO THINK ABOUT ME. I HAVE SO MANY SPEAKERS IN MY HOUSE. SCATTERED HERE AND THERE
Guru You could always give some away to the less fortunate. It's supposed to make you feel better.
Yes, obsessive compulsory disorder plus comorbid persoanlity disorders, most of the times!
Pretty normal, humble people, even if sorta inversely wired up.
If sword fights broke out with dildos, i don't wanna imagine what would happen if a package of vintage swords were sent to the wrong address at an audio trade show.
Boat owners are unstable. They sink more in a boat than I sink in a sound system, and they use it 6 weekends a year. But they don't use hi end cables.
I've Aspergers according to several family members! I doubt a Psychiatrist would even dream of diagnosing it. I'm just fussy, eh?
frequencies make the difference ...in our heads.
Aboud 99%
for the most part their normal, im basing that off my dad and his groups. but when you start buying $1000 power cables you've went off the deep end. like micheal f....never mind
Correlation does not imply causation.
Not if you use balanced cables, and spikes
Haha trick question Paul.. everyone appear to have some issues these days..
Audiophiles are just different, as what we all are from each other.
Sword fighting... haha
I believe if you're not obsessed with at least one thing in your life right now, you could be happier.
so obviously, you don't know me and my audiophile friends, we referred to ourselves as members of the order of the blue striped apron a reference to the traditional attire of butchers, not concerned about going crazy, that happened many decades ago in our country politicians claim to be sane, (YMMV)and I'm quite happy to be different. thanks for the video as enjoyable as ever
Yep
Haha "mentally stable? Of course we are, we just got done sword fighting with dildos addressed to my wife" 😅 love youe videos always knowledgeable and funny
Yes yes and yes. Take your meds, kids.
mentally unstable no, obsessive compulsive yes. (work or job related that is fine). In other words some are OCD just as much as a car perfectionist who spends 2 weeks to detail one car. I prefer to get into things with a hobby enthusiast level, spend a decent amount of cash and time but spend most of my time using the equipment rather than building, setting up, researching. When you spend less using and being happy you've gone to far.
probably some of them they have same level of autism i believe cos autism is also related with an obsession for some particular argument, which can be the continuing research for a better sound
I don't think i am?
Not nuts, but very gullible :- )
I guess that's true, stillI try to keep a healthy scepticism. But my wife says I fail at it. Probably so.
+Vinyl Demon I disagree and agree with certain things here. Its hard to separate truth from fiction in some regards. But firstly, Vinyl indeed has more drawbacks and more limitations when it comes to playback than digital. But the actual sound of a musical performance is not dependent on just the numbers. And I dont mean that to say that the "soul" or the "color" or a variation of adjectives separates vinyl from digital. I mean to say that the production that goes into the music, from the recording to putting that disc on your player, is what really matters, not the format itself. Im sure you are familiar with phenomena such as the loudness war, mixing, mastering and just general quality control. These are real world factors that determine the sound at the end. whether or not a medium has more capabilities or not does not matter if its not allowed to stretch its legs. And as far as I can tell, any format has the ability to surpass human hearing given the optimal conditions.
So Im not sure I agree with the part of enjoying distortion and imperfections. Every medium has imperfections, so does our ears. But no format is solely enjoyable for its imperfections. The general sound is great as well. You dont hear the surface noise while music is playing and you dont perceive every pop and crackle like you do a sick drum solo.
Often audiophiles are perceived as delusional like insinuated by the questioner in this video, because it is hard to understand something which you are not properly trained or used to hear. And I dont mean that as derogatory in any way. A popular philosophical discussion is that of personal experience and truth. To picture a scenario, your wife asks you to buy a certain carpet for the house. She specifically asks you for the most red colored carpet she saw yesterday at the store and you go to pick it up. Once you return your wife is very confused that you brought home the wrong carpet. If you are not trained to perceive these things everything sort of mixes together, as with any of your senses. A chef can tell you the ingredients used in a soup, an artist can tell you that your color values are off in a painting, and an audiophile typically just knows what to listen for in a song.
Thats not to say there is no snake oil in the business.
Waifu Insider Yes. Objectively speaking digital has less limitations than vinyl. Thats factual.
But it doesnt mean my argument is invalid because as a listener I dont care about what ifs or theoretical scenarios. I care about how things apply in the real world. And in the real world no recording, mixing, mastering, playback equipment or ear is perfect. It doesnt mean I cant tell them apart when one or more aspects is lacking. But when all aspects are done well Im not sure I would for any format. If we have the best production and playback of both a record, casette and a CD, the CD is objectively better. But could you hear the difference? Im not so sure.
They would at least all sound great.
Spot on Marcel, people who think an expensive powercord or a unit standing on the speaker without being connected to anything make a difference to the sound are indeed vulnerable to con artists.y
(My CD player got a tube that feeds the electronics smooth electricity, no need for any silly cables.)
Pauls comment surprise me a bit, since I actually have noted that audiophiles tend to have better hearing in some frequencies and a mind that can process sound information better than most - and tend to think that's part of the reason they ended up audiophiles on the first place.
The same ability also is helpful in my fieldwork as I am able to note differences in animal calls, that I guess most would say is similar - but for some species a small difference in pitch carry a lot of meaning to others of the same species to make one example. The other is that I can 'filter' away sounds that are not of interest in the study, such as the tweeting of common birds But on recordings, it all blend together, meaning that the recording equipment I got available in the field is not good enough
Hey we need fieldwork sturdy Audiophile gear for our biology research! :)
That Pauls reference speakers are electrostats for the midrange, and the tweeters something that look similar to the Jet tweeters in my own Elac speakers does not surprise me the slightest.
I never heard them, never will, but I know such drivers have the characteristics that gives very good sound reproduction.
The other factor that makes an audiophile are of course the more obvious ones such as liking music that are recorded uncompressed. (In short acoustic, classical and jazz etc.) I am an exception in the latter since I listen to rock, even so can tell the differece.
Are audiophiles mentally unstable, Then segues into the Sword fight story lol... no not at all, In all seriousness Paul thank you for these videos Your time and effort inspire me .
Pardon me if I cuss
Yes they are
Paul, I refuse to listen to your answers, unless you record your voice on analog.
Yes! (I didn't even watch the video. I just threw that in there.)
I was upset to hear that Arnie Nudell died recently.
Tbh if I was addicted to black tar heroin and I met someone who is also addicted to black tar heroin id think he was a pretty stable guy.
My wife votes Yea!
In a goddamn world where everybody stays to themselves on a smart device uhhhhh duh goddammit
Stable or not... much of the salesmanship in consumer electronics can border on the non sensical . I have had a number of consumer electronics people, sellers and users, who state they can hear subtleties in music from a CD using mass market speakers or even audiophile speakers and gear. They go on to argue that the recording engineers are just flunkies (paraphrased) who know very little so who would care about their opinion on good sounding speakers etc. A CD is a significantly reduced file size of original recorded material. How is that a copy played in a stereo store can show flaws or details in a recording more than the original recording and creators could not.?? The discussion of directional cable and power cleaning also tends to illustrate some of the fanatical nature of non pro audiophiles. Speaker placement I would argue will play a much greater role in the reproduction of sound over alot of components that audiophiles find pertinent. There have been tests done at high bit depths of 24 and sample rates of 96KHZ or higher to determine if they yielded any differences to the human ear. The files are much bigger but we enter into the world of diminishing returns. Very hard to hear much difference mostly because human hearing is so limited and is affected by age and of course speaker placement. It is more subjective than anything. I did hear a story from a recording engineer friend of mine who said that Bryston engineers did a blind test on speaker wire ... using lamp cord and high quality speaker wire to compare the sound differences. In this example, people could not hear any difference. But if you go to a stereo store catering to the audiophile you get alot of bashing on about the cable choice/etc. I would agree that a good A/D converter will make a very big difference as a bad one will tend to make some music more brittle and can give you ear fatigue.But even with A to D once you get into a reasonable level of quality any increase in cost to squeeze smoother more musical sound will be marginal from my experience. A dome tweeter vs a ribbon tweeter is an area of difference I can say will yield measurable results. Obviously isolating a turntable from floor rumble will yield results maybe in ultra quiet sections of music. My preference is to gain as musical a sound as possible and keep cabling as short as possible simply to reduce the possibility of RF interference... more possible with unbalanced non pro setups.
So I do believe that some audiophiles who are playing back FLAC files or CDs can get a bit fanatical about every little component to a level of obsessiveness. Are they unstable? Who knows.... for some it is an obsessive hobby. But sound is very influenced by physics like room size, shape and material not to mention speaker placement or even person and ear placement. Our ears are also very susceptible to volume effects. We simply do not hear low frequencies as easily at lower volumes which is why many people like to listen to music at higher volumes or use a loudness control to even out the perceived sound. As well, our hearing does change considerable over our lifetime so it's not like we own a couple of scientific instruments on our heads.
for 45 years -yes and no
Well i`rd say quite a few .
Cryogenic wire. For Instance.