Are Streetcars Making US Cities Better?
Vložit
- čas přidán 6. 06. 2024
- In this video we will talk about new streetcar systems in US cities. Are they making those cities better?
#urbanism, #tram, #streetcars, #streetcar, #city, #sustainablecities, #infrastructure, #cityforall, #usa, #usastreetcars, #trams, #streetcarusa
Timecodes:
00:00 - Intro
00:28 - Brief history of US streetcars
03:31 - Atlanta
05:38 - Tucson
07:08 - Charlotte
09:30 - Dallas
11:08 - Cincinnati
12:26 - Kansas City
13:11 - Washington DC
13:47 - Detroit
14:31 - Oklahoma City
15:23 - Milwaukee
16:19 - Tempe
18:10 - Сonclusions
***
Support this channel by Patreon -
/ cityforall
Support our channel by Patreon -
www.patreon.com/CitiesforAll
What doomed most of the old streetcar systems was having to share their lanes with cars, removing their crucial advantage of greater speed. (Many of them could have survived with dedicated lanes.)
Why didn't that happen, though? Other systems elsewhere slowly migrated to "exclusive right of way", where either cars were banned from the street (save for locals), or new streets had lanes reserved for trams.
The latter can be found even in Toronto, making some of their tram lines much faster than busses.
@@LMB222cars
@@LMB222 The Auto Industry was found to have colluded in terms of "lobbying" the US government and other state and local governments to promote a new, car-based lifestyle
The Cincinnati Connector is definitely an example of a successful streetcar tram line. For all of its design quirks, the connector is surpassing ridership records year after year well into 2022-2023. The city is now pushing for a second tram loop and extension of the system!
Link to the subway tunnels then
@@qjtvaddict You can't. They are too narrow and carry the water mains through that area.
@@MrTurtle2829 can't easily anyway, it could be done but it'd be a huge project.
@@MrTurtle2829 Absolutely wrong on the narrowness, the water main is right but that can be moved its already redundant infrastructure.
The cincinnati street car successful? I guess for the pub crawls.
Even in Sydney we have a tram every 3 minutes in the CBD that spreads to 8 minutes at their terminals in the suburbs. A lot of people hated the fact it was being built, but the system of just 3 lines had a monthly ridership of 3 million
the L1 in Dulwich hill is only every 15 minutes :/ but still lightyears ahead of the US (originally from Milwaukee)
That was during covid +cracked trams; it's back up to every 8min in peak and 10min midday, only down to 15 in the early and late hours. It could be better, but it's not bad and certainly more usable than every 15.
This video really showed me that Sydney did it properly even though we were over budget. We took time to beautify the streets and we built it in the city, and out to places where people actually need to do. The USA really has done this on the cheap without dedicated corridors or proper stations
@@lachd2261 I'm not taking any side, but some people would say it doesn't go out to where it "was needed", but instead created a need for itself because they cut all the buses that provide direct journeys to the city.
@@ThomasNingyes because buses are an extremely inefficient way to transport large numbers of people over greater distance, and contribute to noise and air pollution when they all reach the city. A core target of the latest projects in Sydney (Metro, LR, upgrades to InterCity) was done with this in mind: buses should not form the backbone of a transport system or its arteries, they should run short fast local trips to interchanges with light and heavy rail, and some express buses can offer complementary services to this pattern.
Most of US streetcars are not done to get ridership but to try to revitalize some quarters in dereliction. That the reason why, aside Salt Lake City, Charlotte and few others, their design is terrible (generally one way loops !) and doesn't correspond to any demand ! Moreover they don't get their own right of way or even trafic lights, priorities. They should better get them "aligning generators and dense quarters" corresponding to demand so as to get ridership and then revitalizing the city by creating TOD around. The European way for creating Light rails called "Tram" there, is a lot better with mostly their own right of ways at grade and not costuous elevated structure.
So as mentioned in the video it's mostly like a neighborhood decoration. And as for me even this could be much better.
Agreed. The big thing is cost too. North America in general is really adverse to spending money on public transit and so you get these watered down pet projects rather than strong tram transit. In Canada there are a lot of trams planned, but they are almost always fully separated LRT systems never sharing road space with cars, in part because I think Canada is more accepting of public transit and transit spending.
In my city we are spending $3.5 billion building a 14km LRT route. Compare that we the systems shown in the video which are between 3-6km long and typically cost much much less despite being in USD in part because of a mediocre implementation.
Agreed. I think Portland is a notable exception to streetcar “loops” not working. Portland has 2 loops (maybe 3 depending on how you look at it) that serve Downtown and very close in neighborhoods. The system has very high ridership. I think the difference is that Portland already had a very vibrant and developed downtown. Also Portland has been a very transit friendly city for years which likely helped with locals and visitors taking to the system
Pathetic
Elevated lines are superior no interactions with any traffic
I live in Portland, OR, birthplace of the modern streetcar concept. The advantage as I see it is not to create functional transit, but to encourage development along a corridor. I feel very mixed about this, since the places that the Portland Streetcar created are my favorite in the city yet the streetcar itself is borderline unusable with how slow it is.
To add insult to injury, there is a maintained streetcar track running from the southern end of the NS Line to the suburb of Lake Oswego, which even has tourist streetcars run along it. However, the actual streetcar can't be extended there because the rich Lake Oswego residents fear the homeless coming in. The streetcar had a chance to become an actual usable tram system, going long distances with portions on dedicated rights of way, but it was shot down.
That's sad, classical NIMBY. Participation is important but sometimes it could spoil a good things.
Portland is considered as a pretty good system and when you look at the map it seems impressive with all the lines and colors but a deeper look shows that what is considered one line with branches in most places turns into, at least, 2 lines but you still have ~60mi (~96km) of 5 max lines, 7.2mi (11.6km) of 3 tram lines and an almost 15mi (close to 24km) of the WES commuter rail line (with 5 station) + a largely liberal and climate awareness inhabitants and yet only a small percentage of them use public transport. In 2022 the total system (including max, trams, WES and buses, moved almost 43 million people, which is far from impressive for a city of 650,000 and a urban of more than 2m. I'm originally from Israel (today I live in Barcelona), a mostly car dependent country but working to change this. Currently the only active non bus city transit a 13.9km light rail line in Jerusalem that transports an average of 150,000 people each day with the same yearly ridership of the entire transit system of Portland (including buses). An extension on both ends to ~22km is set to open in September and expected to raise thin number to 250,000+. 2 more main lines are under construction (the full plan is 10 lines, but more like the US style of branches defined as a "line").
In Tel Aviv the first light rail line (24km, 12km underground) should open soon (no official date but the aim is in July) and is expected to carry 275,000 each day. 2 more lines are under construction (and a 3 lines/109 stations/150km metro system is on final approval stage).
We do have a large and pretty good bus network and an expanding modern heavy rail system.
If a country the size of New Jersey, 2/3rd of New Jersey's GDP can invest in such system why can't the US (I know the reasons, but it's still unfathomable).
Build proper metro instead
Not streetcar related, but was very surprised that the southwest Max light rail extension to Tigard was shot down as well. Was this NIMBY /homeless person fear related as well? Sad and shortsighted to make what is essentially a lifetime access decision based on what is hopefully a temporary problem.
Growing up in Denver in the mid 90s when that city was developing their light rail network, there was a suburb called Lone Tree that wanted nothing to do with the city’s light rail system. There was an eruption of gang violence in Denver during that time, and they feared gang members would come into Lone Tree via light rail. Fast forward 30 years, the gang fear subsided and Lone Trees master plan as been completely redesign as a new urbanist concept based around the cities three new light rail stations.
Line Tree was very lucky that RTD (Denver’s transit agency) decided to extend into the town when they were once vehemently opposed. Tigard AMS Lake Oswego may not be as lucky.
@@Dimewick21 I'm wondering if gangs could use a cars to move around the city :)
I think the Tempe streetcar actually does a great job for the community/area its in, being a large sized urban college campus. I wish I had it all four years while at the university but it was super helpful for my final year there as it makes getting to places on campus, in downtown and along the lake much quicker than walking. It also goes right by multiple dorm complexes and off campus apartments and led to me making multiple trips to places I would never really go to because of the long walk and hot weather. Crossing paths with the larger in scale light rail at both ends is also super helpful, I hope they expand it since there has been talk of doing so.
Tempe looks like one of the most promising tram projects, especially for a city of its size in the US. I would love to see the network expanded so that success can be modeled elsewhere!
@goldenstarmusic1689 the population numbers are a little miss leading because it’s is basically pheonix and the transit budget for the metro area is shared by all the governments. That being said I love it and hope they exstend the team or light rail north to arcadia
The primary issue with the Tempe streetcar right now is that it only has 20-minute service, which is fine on Sundays, when light rail service is only every 20 minutes, but on all other days, it would be a lot better if it matched light rail service, so transfers at Dorsey/Apache and Mill/3rd Street, which generates a lot of the ridership, are more consistent.
@@grahamturner2640 Agreed, the one problem I do have is I wish it was more frequent, especially during the middle of summer but other than that I think it's super useful.
@@grahamturner2640oh wow… are there only 2 streetcar trams to service the entire line? Considering the line length and 20 minute service time, I’d assume that’s the case.
Also, unfortunately I think all the footage in this video of the Tempe streetcar are actually of the Tucson, Arizona streetcar (completely different city). 😢
4 or 6 km, the lenght of most of the system you showed,is a short, easy and quick bike ride.
its okay if its one of many lines, but by the time they are built everyone lost interest, and 20 mins headway is a disaster.
Unless it rains, or unless it's winter in the Continental climate…
KC here. We are presently working on two extensions to the starter line - the bigger of the two being just over halfway completed. Both extensions are scheduled to be done by 2025.
Great news! Are you working at municipality?
Just had a look at the route to the Uni, that looks like a good extension and there is a fairly easy further extension beyond the Uni you can get to.
In cincinnati we do have priority signals, and the ridership keeps going up! Its definatly fueled some development, and i think its been quite successful, even if it didnt get started on the best foot. I dont ride it often, but when im downtown i dont see it getting stuck in traffic too badly, as its off the major gridlock streets overall.
Sounds good!
The Dallas Streetcar has real potential if it gets developed into a whole network covering Downtown, Uptown, the Design District, South Dallas, and East Dallas. Some local urbanists (one of whom is on the transit board) have been talking about this and making hypothetical maps. The issue with the car on the existing route is they had limited options, because the bridge it goes over is historical so they couldn't add catenary wires.
Also, with the LRT system, I think of it more as a regional rail, since its infrastructure and vehicles differ greatly from basically every other LRT system.
Love to see transit content about Dallas! Haven't seen too much
Gotta do more with that modem Dallas line. Bring the players at MATA to the table too.
I have literally been advocating for this and even designed a map route map encompasses East Dallas and south Dallas which connects to the already existing one in uptown. Who should I show it to to bring attention?
I wonder how catenary wires would ruin the historic value in a way the streetcar already wouldn’t.
Out of all of these Tempe's streetcar might be the most promising: It has considerable chunks which are seperated from car lanes and the places where it shares lanes with cars are largely not places where you can expect the trams to get stuck behind cars that much. It does have a one-way section in downtown, which is not ideal, but the distances between both directions aren't massive either. But perhaps most importantly: It serves a considerable purpose for passengers: Despite not being all that big, it serves as an excellent last-mile solution for people coming in from the broader region on the light rail into various areas of the CBD and university housing/campuses around the line.
But it gets better: The city is already considering various extensions to areas around downtown and potentially even quite a bit further to serve the broader Tempe-Mesa part of the metro area and the type of redevelopment being planned around those corridors could be very suitable to make the line a succes.
On its' face, the Tempe system looks like a lot of the other failing systems on the list that were purely built to help to boost the image of local development: But it has potential, and it seems like there may actually be political will to reach some of that potential.
Tempe's system seems to functionally be a local branch of the light rail line.
Yes but but most people just use it to get to class and shops ect. So it’s pretty great for the down town
I have news! they are doing plans to extend it to sloan park then south to Asian district
I am assuming you are not an American, yet your analysis of streetcar (tram) systems in the USA is spot on. The simple fact in America is, "the automobile still rules." That doesn't even take into account trucks and we have tons, from large transport semi's to smaller, yet still bulky, delivery trucks such as those used by FedExp and UPS. In America, if a city starts out with a plan to really improve a street and add streetcars in dedicated lanes, that plan will receive many protests from car drivers and companies that rely on trucks. They don't want to be "inconvenienced" in any way. So, ultimately the plan will get changed to just throwing tracks down in a road. As a result, streetcars get a lot of bad publicity. It's "planned failure"...build an inferior system, it gets low ridership so, those against mass transit say, "See, streetcars don't work." This is true of all rail transit in America. Our passenger rail system runs on the same tracks as freight so it is a slow and inefficient system with limited cities served. Light rail and subways are so expensive to built in the USA that most cities can't afford them and federal (and state) politicians won't support allocating money for mass transit because they want it to go to the military contractors and other stock suppported companies.
Cars rule but at the heart of it all is money. A well designed, efficient, effective mass transit system doesn't make enough money for stock holders of private companies and politicians and it might even result in fewer cars sold. With a bad car, truck, bus system of transportation, the rich get richer and the politicians get the money they need to get reelected. That is what rules transit in the USA.
I generally understand that.
It sounds very sad and strongly resembles a closed circle and a hopeless situation :(
@@cityforall Definitely. Nothing is going to change it until after the whole nation goes bankrupt, from the federal government and bid corporations on top down to the small village councils and mom and pop businesses at the bottom. 😣😞🙁☹️
The streetcar system in Oklahoma City has plans to be expanded quite a lot. If it seems somewhat similar to Dallas and other cities, it’s because Oklahoma City’s government literally contacted those cities to find out who had planned their streetcar system and then contacted those folks to get proposals. My understanding is that there’s basically currently only a few companies that plan, design, and build streetcar systems in US cities…at least that’s what I was told by folks I know in Oklahoma City who were part of that city’s government at the time (they were surprised there were so few given how many had been built before OKC decided to). This last week the Regional Train Association also met to discuss the plans for a ballot initiative that would take place in Edmond, Oklahoma City, and Norman to decide on building a light rail system between the city. If approved it would be the first in the step of building a light rail system in central Oklahoma to connect the cities. There’s also still hope of getting Amtrak to approve connecting OKC and Tulsa by rail. I live an hour’s drive northwest of Oklahoma City and will admit to appreciating the streetcar system for when visiting the downtown area. I can park my car and just ride the streetcar to lots of destinations in the downtown neighborhoods. If things go as planned the expanded system would mean I could use it for more places. Whenever I visit the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex area (that’s a four and a half hour drive from where I live), I do appreciate that it keeps expanding its transit options. I can drive from my rural city to Oklahoma City and take the Amtrak train from OKC to Fort Worth. Then I can take the Trinity Rail from Fort Worth into Dallas. The Dallas streetcar you showed is literally within walking distance from the train station and I have only rode it once when visiting the arts district neighborhood it’s designed to take people to and from. Otherwise I switch to the DART light rail train. There’s an area in Dallas with a heritage streetcar system that operates through that neighborhood and is good to use while there. And many stations are park and rides. I literally was there in early July. I drove to a suburb to stay at the hotel (drove because there were some places I planned on going that don’t have rail connections because they’re in suburbs that don’t have a transit system and aren’t part of DART or the other transit systems…maybe they will at some point). My hotel was literally two blocks from a park and ride station for the light rail and I used that to travel to most of the locations I was going. So Dallas’ system is getting better. I’ve ridden the trolley in San Diego back in the late 1990s while visiting. That was actually the first time I had ever ridden a streetcar. I definitely thought it was very useful and wondered at the time why more US cities didn’t have them (and then stumbled upon lots of history…including how my small rural city even had a streetcar system once….now all we have a call-and-ride shuttle bus service provided by the city and a private for-profit taxi company; one of the nonprofits here used to also provide bus services to the elderly and disabled, but they lost their funding from the state and federal government for that so that nonprofit just continues with its food program…delivering groceries and meals to elderly and disabled who live outside of towns and cities here in rural northwest Oklahoma). I think your critiques of each of the systems (which many were the same critiques) were very good and I think it shows that the same folks using the same plans are building them. The area in Oklahoma City you mentioned is indeed a new area for development and that transit hub area was specifically asked for by city leaders, it wasn’t originally part of the plan (because that boulevard wasn’t originally planned when the streetcar system was being discussed). Since the 1990s, Oklahoma City had been on a mission to redesign itself. I can definitely say that A LOT has changed since then and not just in the downtown area! The city government continues to work to improve, redesign, etc lots of the city and it has definitely helped bring in new businesses and new residents. Though because of the constant threat of tornadoes, that does factor into the city’s layout and planning as well (literally had severe weather all last week in the state).
Great video! Thanks for making it and given a good assessment on the systems. I think you pointed to things that could be changed. Maybe some European streetcar/tram planning and building companies should consider coming over to help US cities. Considering that the US federal government provides cities with incentives to build streetcar and train systems and more and more cities are looking into building them (or expanding their existing systems), it could be good to utilize the expertise and experience the European companies could provide….assuming US cities can afford that.
I never understood why US cities invest millions in tram tracks, just to run tiny vehicles with no more capacity than a bus, and only every 15-20 minutes at best. It almost feels as if those lines are deliberately built to demonstrate that "trams don't work in the USA". With only a few hundred passengers per day it would be literally cheaper to just hand out taxi coupons.
Whenever a city manages to (accidentally?) build a system that's actually reasonable, they always seem surprised, and even overwhelmed by demand. Surprise: if you build a _useful_ tram line, people will actually use it - duh.
I’m proud to have grown up in Upper Darby, which isn’t even a city, it’s a suburb. And we have two trolley lines that run on dedicated tracks, a light rail, and a connection to Philadelphia’s subway, as well as a connection to the Regional Rail system on our border with Yeadon and dozens od buses. It’s always been strange to me as an adult realizing how few places in America have real trolley systems.
Kansas City Streetcar will probably be the system to watch as it seems to be doing a lot of the right things and has a lot of support for expansion.
The one thing i will say is that Europe had to relearn a lot of the same lessons we are going through currently. As a lot of the same knowledge was lost when they closed down tram lines around the same time we did and then having to figure out what works and what doesn't again. Translhor being one example of mistakes made building out trams in Europe i can think of off the top of my head.
Just found this channel, very good content, helpful with street view and the numbers. You also have a very calming voice. Subscribed!
Thank you, especially about the voice, cause during editing it seems to me extremely boring :)
Most newer street cars in the US have fallen victims to the endless culture wars. "They are a threat to my freedom" "They are unamerican" (just like bike lanes)
Thats why they lack dedicated lanes, cars are small and routes are short and going nowhere.
"That's not for our people!" (c)
"Streetcar transit is SoCiaLIsM!!"
"Streetcars" in the United States tend to be used as development tools rather than functional transport. Light Rail systems, generally modeled after German stadtbahn systems (San Diego even started with the same U2 model used in Frankfurt) tend to focus on actual transport solutions. Portland has a successful streetcar system with three lines, though two of them are opposite directions of one loop. The streetcar there connects at multiple places with the light rail and even uses a new bridge to cross the river that allows light rail and streetcar, buses, pedestrians and bicycles, but not private cars. Note that Washington and Atlanta have Metro systems as well, while Tempe (Phoenix area) and Dallas both have light rail systems.
Kansas City has been very successful with ridership because the streetcar is fare free, it goes through the downtown area, and it connects to Union Station and Amtrak. There are plans to expand it, and several other systems, but hopefully as they expand, they will actually be functional transport instead of development tools. I don't have much hope for that though.
tempes street car is planned on extending east rio salado south on dobson and west on the lrt tracks
Tampa Florida TECO line street car Drumroll: AS a Historic streetcar line to increase the number of Tourist's.
It literally is a "theme park attraction" for downtown and ybor city districts.
You skipped over Buffalo, NY which has LRRT and Streetcar (tram). Tram is being extended slightly opening spring 2024. Adding a much larger extension is in the planning stage.
I live in Atlanta and I've ridden the street car the biggest problem with its the route doesn't really go anywhere useful. There are plans to go up the beltline(bike path) to a few useful places such as krog street market and ponce city market but that's still a few years out.
I really love Taking Public Transit cause you have so much productivity done like getting good Walk To The Bus Stop, Getting your Home Work Done while your in the Transit Vehicle, and even planning what to do in the Day. In a Personal Vehicle you are Restricted to Sitting and you can't do anything your main focus is the Road. Transit is the Best
The GM conspiracy was an actual conspiracy, not a theory
I don't want GM to strike my channel :)
It was not an actual conspiracy, the theory was disproven decades ago.
How sad they barely act as a tram that has some benefit over driving. After going to Germany, it's so clear to see where the US fails at trams and how much we are addicted to preserving the lanes for cars.
I live very close to the VTA light rail in San José, California. It's a nice system, but quite under-utilized. Silicon Valley is highly car-centric, alas. It covers quite a large area, from the eastern part of the city all the way up the peninsula to Mountain View (yes, the city that's the home of Google). One of the problems for me is that there's no coordination between it and the BART schedule at the one place they both serve (Milpitas). But BART also doesn't coordinate with the commuter rail (CalTrain) at Milbrae. Milpitas BART is only one stop from the end of its line, and Milbrae is the end of its line, so the considerations for trying to sync schedules should be less severe. For those not familiar with it, BART is somewhere between a subway system and a commuter rail (outer parts are more like commuter rail, in denser urban areas like SF and Oakland it's more like a subway).
Wish you covered Salt Lake City, the streetcar here revitalized a previously declining industrial sector with lots of new shops, apartments, etc.
I've actually started preparing video about Salt Lake City comparing it with one European tram city. Guess which one :)
@@cityforall Ooh I'd have no idea if I'm being honest lol, but I'm excited to see it when it does come out!
That's great) Gives motivation to move on)
I wish New York City never got rid of the streetcars. With everyone worried about air quality they would cut down on pollution plus they could make dedicated lanes for them. I do remember at one time they where talking about putting a line back on 42nd street in the center but they didn't do it because of the price.
I think it’s worth taking a look at Canadian cities too. While they’re definitely not perfect… and sometimes not even good they are usually a lot better with transit than US cities. While there not many tram/streetcar system in Canada I think it’s still a good case study.
You obviously have the Toronto streetcar as well as it’s neighbouring smaller systems. But also the cities of Calgary and Edmonton which are building what I would consider streetcars (low floor vehicles that run on street and follow road rules) even though the are considered LRT by the cities (even tho both cities have a separate high floor LRT system) But I guess that’s already a blurred line.
Sure! As I saw Quebec City is also planning something interesting
And the twin cities of Kitchener / Waterloo, which opened a new system a few years ago in what is easily the smallest urban area in Canada to build a rail-based transit line.
It's so frustrating in the States. You just can NOT get anyone behind anything that takes any space from cars, or even mildly inconveniences anyone in a car. Doesn't matter if there's off street parking nearby; you can't remove street parking. Doesn't matter if the four lane road barely gets any traffic; you can't remove a lane. Doesn't matter if kids keep getting run over at this intersection, you can't take a single parking spot away to "daylight" the corner. Every time I see any good steps proposed or even put into planning, I then watch several years of them being picked away until, when it's finally built, it's a mostly useless shell of an idea and its inevitable failure is used as an excuse for not doing more.
Turning people on your side in this in the most difficult part of a story. That's really hard. Agree.
Elevated rail takes nothing away from cars
@@qjtvaddict they just take money from the budget :)
@@qjtvaddictbut cost so much more, take away air space (meaning restrict views), adds support columns below the rails, and make it more challenging to get to stations as you have to climb steps, take an elevator.
@@qjtvaddict elevated rails are something from the past when they were considered futuristic, in reality a metro does the same thing but better
Ironic how in both the US as in Belgium great public transport led to car dependency over time
Time to cover Ottawa. Its a pretty clever example of how to invest in trams and light rail.
Except they bought Alstom products which dont work
Thanks for the video! Sad that Philly is not included. I used them when I was there, and the system seemed pretty developed and even popular. Quote Wikipedia: The lines, Routes 10, 11, 13, 34, and 36, collectively operate on about 39.6 miles (63.7 km) of route.[1]
Philly system doesn't meet the criteria of this video :)
Dallas actually has a 2nd older streetcar line that is totally separate from the one you showed. The McKinney Ave trolley runs a 3.5km (each way) route between Uptown and Downtown. It's run by a historical society, but does get some use by commuters as well. There is talk of connecting the two systems to make one larger network.
I consider these sorts of trams as very expensive bus lines. A lot of times they are a real estate play more than an attempt at effective transit.
The type of vehicle more commonly called a "light rail" in the US is a better form of this, with dedicated lanes at least most of the time, if not underground or above ground sections.
Not a conspiracy theory. in the late 1990's GM was found guilty of several charges from the afore mentioned death of street cars. They were fined $1 USD. No that's not a typo. One dollar.
17:20 that style of roundabout also exists along the light rail line, and in my opinion, was done better there. When the line was extended from Mesa Drive/Main Street to Gilbert Road/Main Street (both in Mesa), a roundabout was built at the intersection of Horne/Main Street (half way between the Mesa Drive/Main Street and Stapley/Main Street stations), and the roundabout had railroad gates where the tracks intersected the lane of the traffic circle. The roundabout shown for the streetcar merely has a traffic signal. And the other issue with streetcars that don’t have dedicated lanes is that when there’s no traffic, the streetcar is usually way early with no way to stop to get back on schedule. This happens in Tempe. At least with buses, you can pull over if there’s a bus pullout and wait to get back on schedule if you’re early.
Tram systems built in NJ look much more like ideal/ Europe systems. The systems in Jersey City/ Newark are mostly in dedicated lanes/ right of ways. Many streets were extensively redesigned.
I live in KC - and I love our streetcar! We are currently working on two major expansions to the current “starter line” with scheduled openings in 2025-2026, respectfully. Parts of the expansion route will even have DEDICATED LANES for the streetcar! Our ridership is very high because the streetcar is currently free. There have also been further discussions on adding a new streetcar line through different parts of the city within the next 10 years or so as well.
Oh, that's very interesting, I should look for information about that, it sounds like urban news!
I live in the Metro Atlanta area specifically Gwinnett County. Gwinnett County have their own Transit System, but most of the county don't get any service from County Transit System. Which is sad. The streetcar / tram in city of Atlanta is just for tourist. Most of the city itself is not being served by the tram.
The Atlanta streetcar is being expanded east to the Beltline and then north to the Ponce City Market area. It will most likely still be mostly a tourist attraction, but at least it will be better than it currently is. Further plans are to extend it west to the Beltline. I think that a north-south line along Peachtree or West Peachtree St would help a lot, as that would have good ridership. More subway lines would have a much larger impact than streetcar improvements, but oh well
Why do I have the impression that the streetcar lines were built solely for the purpose that streetcars would not work in the US?
they were instead built to boost development in areas that were very blighted, and they have had decent success in that regard
They do seem to be purpose-built as demonstration projects to show that streetcars/trams simply won't work in the US. Same with light rail and metro. Meanwhile in Canada, Latin America and the Caribbean, cities just go ahead and build these systems properly. 😭😭😭
@@edwardmiessner6502 this is not true. Modern Streetcars are solely built to boost development.
Light rail has largely been a success in the US, too
I agree that most if not all us cities cannot plan these trams 🚊 properly. Honestly, I agree with your conclusion. Especially cities that have loops for their tram lines. I personally hate loops. It doesn’t connect anything but downtown or city centers. The transit here is so lack luster, I’ve lost all hope. In DC where I live. I’ve waited so patiently for them to extend the tram, and yet they haven’t even started extending the first line who supposedly “started” the extension a year ago.
I would assume the downtown loop gets ridership from the tourist first. It's better than nothing, and probably give them more bargaining power for future expansion
D.C is probably the most developed city in the usa if you look at just the downtown, especially with that insanely good metro, but otherwise it's shit. Chicago and New York are the only cities that are actually REAL cities in the usam
@@tortellinifettuccine metro is good but they still under serve some areas, to which why the tram was considered.
The nicest streetcar system in America is the Salt Lake city Tram which has 5 different lines spread over 72km with an annual ridership of 10.6 million.
It opened in 1999 which means it is not new but it has had time to expand unlike the newer systems in other cities.
For the most part American cities are too spread out for Trams to work which is why you only see short loops in downtown areas where density is the highest. Too much has changed from the old days 100 years ago and it will take another 100 years to reverse all that car dependent infrastructure. America will be locked into car dependency for generations.
8:48 They could have gotten away with putting the station on the curb sidewalk for a lot cheaper. It would also reduce cluter on the street, which reduce the likelihood of traffic backups.
Actually the old streetcars were never trams, they were trolleys. The ones that remain and the new old fashioned streetcars are still trolleys. Trams have a pantograph or half-pantograph to support its catenary wire contact sled, trolleys have a trolley pole that uses a steel wheel in it's top end to contact the wire.
American planners and politicians should use this post-construction downtime to watch urbanist CZcams videos like this one so that maybe they'll do future expansions right.
Love!
Elevated Light Rail could be an alternative to full metro rail. And trams (streetcars) could be built as a "local" alternative to LR.
Elevated Light Rail = Light Metro. Make it automated and it'll be cheaper to run than busses or trams.
@@edwardmiessner6502 Don't fall into the Ottawa trap though, which has been expensive, terrible, worthless, very bad, no good, terrible rapid transit system of headaches.
FYI: Tucson is pronounced like Two-son. It's a very common mistake even in Arizona.
So it turns out that even Google does not know the correct pronunciation :)
But in spanish it is pronounced Tuk Son which makes it even more confusing.
Very nice video, likes from me !
Thank you very much!
Surprised you didn't talk about Seattle's, since you used footage from it. Maybe it was an "older" network than you were showing. Anyway, it's good to see public transit in other cities where I wouldn't expect any!
Exactly! I've took the newest systems and Seattle just wasn't among them.
Aww, he didn't say anything about Dallas's M line. I know it's an little of a tourist attraction but the M line is still considered an operating tram/streetcar line.
Finally comments from Dallas :)
You forgot to cover the Delmar Loop Trolley in St. Louis!
Tram should say “OPE” when drifting between lanes lol
Bit of topic but it appear that the QLine Detroit Tram in the Conclusion at 18:34 is trying to get an IP address. The destination board say DHCP config.
You got it, streetcars in the US are decorative. Here's why: their construction is funded by special taxes on new real estate developments that only get built because the streetcar line makes the neighborhood look nicer. Cars are the priority in the US (and it's horrible)
On the last image you showed in Detroit it actually has dedicated lanes for the tram that was just an older picture
I was interested to see what he says about Detroit being from the area. Detroit has clearly been making some effort to improve the Qline
I believe if they invested more into a street car network going further towards the inner ring suburbs and adding lines down Grand River and Gratoit for example, would be a huge benefit for Detroit. From my understanding, street cars have cost benefits over buses in the long run on top of attracting more ridership
but sadly there is no way in hell they would be interested in bring it through highland park
At least there has been a pretty strong effort with protected bike lanes, what they've been doing with them in old redford is impressive
@@TriegaDN I hope they expand it too; I think it will be a big benefit to the city
I remember we were supposed to get a light-rail system back in 2018 here in Nashville. However, it was shot down, and now the city is paying for it.
A streetcar that runs on dedicated lanes with frequent all-day service is a useful mode of transportation. A streetcar that runs in mixed-traffic for a short distance with trains running only every 15 minutes is an expensive vanity project.
In the Netherlands, especially Amsterdam, Rotterdam and The Hague have their own trams but it’s a combination of separated and joined with car systems even in the same street. Though they do get traffic light priority, sometimes the tram still has to wait due to the intersection not being clear though it only takes 10-15 seconds at most.
There are sensors on the tracks which determine whether or not a tram is approaching.
Also line busses (e.a busses with a line number or letter and number) and trams mostly share the same space because the traffic lights for a tram and a bus are the same. Sometimes busses do have a separate light because the tram doesn’t go in that direction.
So it’s not by definition a bad thing cars and trams if they share a space though it should only be used on short sections and traffic of cars should be as little as possible.
Atlanta’s line is basically for tourists to get from the hotel district (Coke|CNN centres) to the MLK centre and his church.
The majority of these US cities don’t have people living in or adjacent to their business districts and thus tram lines have been primarily designed to get people around the CBD. In Europe people still live in the central part of the cities (as well as adjacent to) so trams are routed through dense neighborhoods with lots of on/off opportunities. One of Toronto’s advantages was well populated neighborhoods along the tram lines and a resurgence of residential development bringing almost 250K people into homes steps from the CBD. Upgraded lines like Spadina and St Clair received dedicated corridors and a major portion of King St was closed to other vehicles to facilitate trams, bikes and pedestrians (with street furniture rest stops). But the decision was also made to replace several high capacity bus routes with LRTs running in their own separated lanes or underground (Finch & Eglinton) as well as a relief LRT to reduce loads on several suburban and closer in bus and tram lines (the Ontario line). All in coordination with existing heavy subway and commuter systems, and localized feeder bus routes.
I see. But as for me this could be made in much cheaper way with the same result.
@@cityforall Quite agree but I suspect the city got Federal $s to make the district around the Martin Luther King church and interpretative centre more accessible (which as a “tourist” I appreciated but like you unsure why it exists otherwise.
The beltline streetcar extension should push the ATL streetcar's route into the much-denser O4W neighborhood. Hopefully it expands even more after that!
@@cheeseborgors More housing in downtown would do wonders
NYC doesn’t have streetcars but upstate New York Buffalo does and that was a new LRV but also the reason why most of the light Rail line are one track and are short because the highways take so much money that by the time, when Detroit started building it light rail they went bankrupt everything up look bad
Imo the value of the Street car, is the old model. Sort of open, you can get on and off at any point of the street. The problem is modern street cars act more like a bus with fixed stops. On top of which they are often in the middle of a Stroad, a busy street without dedicated lanes or right of passage. Meaning your stuck in all the traffic a car/bus would be with no real benefit. It's also hard to cross to the Street car if it's in the center lane.
Light rail offers the greater ability to add passenger capacity when compared to street cars, especially with separation from car traffic.
I don't understand idea of creating weak and slow rail public transport in general, spending millions on construction and maintenance, no matter how it named.
It looks like when your tram is bad - just call it "streetcar" and then everybody go "Oh, ok, nothing to hope here".
@@cityforall Agreed, it is often a short sighted “price point” public transit “solution”.
@@cityforall The BART system in the San Francisco Bay Area only recently connected to the area’s largest city, San Jose. At the time BART was being planned, San Jose was just starting to develop. It was afraid of losing workers to the more prosperous San Francisco. The original plan was to loop around the bay.
…political and economic issues as always.
Suprised you didn’t mention the M-Line in Dallas.
The Bus Lane is there without the streetcar due to one person who wanted to improve bus service without getting the streetcar involved because sadly the streetcar was a massively politicized event in Cincinnati. Its really infuriating IMO.
Great :) I was imagining something like this :)
@@cityforall I really admire what that guy did as he also pushed for better funding of the bus system in Cincinnati and won though it irked me that he was kind of hostile to the streetcar and didn't take a holistic approach towards transit improvements.
Yes you have gotten about BRT - Bus Rapid Transit has it own Corridors while other bus lane or busway service mix traffic most like to be like side lane of tramway/streetcar mix traffic were LRT - Light Rail Transit have it segregated lane as well.
it always baffles me when trams, or any kind of street rail, dont have their own lanes and signal priority. if it gets stuck in traffic, people wont ride it. and low ridership is a killer in the states
Blaming unions for the demise of streetcars is actually crazy. The streetcar companies were often corrupt monopolies that treated their workers horribly.
It’s largely the adoption of cars as well as lack of protection for streetcars right of way that led to their demise
thx
13:44 i don't know anything about the washington D.C. street car but the split may just be there in case washington DC wants to add rails there in the future. you can see theres one on each side so it could be for adding another line in the future
17:20 This surprised me the most. They have a _roundabout_ ?
I lived in a city in France - Orleans - that spent on fortune on a tram system. It took years to install the rails and overhead electric cables. If you live on a street where the tram runs, it makes your whole building shake when it goes by. Ridership is modest. I never saw a full one. There’s no flexibility in the route system, of course, and no money left to extend it beyond its current footprint. The city could have gone with bus lanes, but no - they needed this project for ribbon-cuttings and photo-ops with the mayor. The local joke is, you can bicycle anywhere the tram goes and get there faster.
Pls make one for uk trams
With how #US cities are improving their transit systems, IMO due to how well the car culture has affected Americans that some view surface-level transit modes such as trams, streetcars, and LRTs as a threat to their civil liberties and rights, dedicated closed-loop trams, streetcars, and LRTs IMO should be a lower priority and instead, fully separated and automated light/medium-capacity #metro systems similar to the upcoming #hnlrail Skyline, expanded bus services (BRTs included; utilizing existing road infrastructure), regional commuter rail (utilizing existing mainline railroads), tram-trains (utilizing existing mainline railroads), and train-trams (utilizing existing mainline railroads) should be a higher priority.
To it it looks like - we will do something, but dear cars, we won't harm you, don't worry, all your lanes will be still with you
New Orleans and San Francisco probably have the best systems around as they had survived the auto industry. Old Tram systems in most cities in the US used to connect to the main railroad station in town and thus one of the main reasons why they existed as national and regional traveling used to be by rail but the automobile replaced most of that. It appears that some cities are trying to replicate the systems in New Orleans and San Francisco but it is much more complicated at building a successful one. San Francisco has both a tram called the Muni and the infamous cable car that runs street grade and it also has BART as a regional train or LRT. But at the end of the day the automobile is still king in America as it relates to suburban sprawl. By the way Chicago has a great passenger rail system and thus a reason why they do not have a tram there. Additionally, work at home in the US remains quite popular as some people like myself are just absolutely done with the daily commute. Why do I need to be on the same highway as everyone else at the same time wasting hours on end sitting in traffic? Absolutely stupid.
What is this tram? Do you mean trolley car.
Now there was this one system once called Wilkes Barre railway which had a lot of quirks. Plenty of private right of way such as trestles and some along side road sections but most was complete private double track mainlines, the trolleys were all city cars but were geared for 60mph at full speed as some distances and hills required speed and power to match. They also had the steepest adhesion only trolley line in North America (there is one section of a line in porto steeper) and trolleys controlled traffic signals. Overall it was 145 miles of row less yards and the second track. 435 cars owned across its existence, max of 200 at one point.
Also side note. Unlike modern cars the old ones had anticlimbers which served as car battering rams without worry of being sued.
There are so many terms for the city street rail system in the US - streetcar, trolley, LRT. But I personally prefer a word "tram", that is short and don't have confusing similarities with trolleybuses or cars :)
Clearest description yet of the changes we need in our public philosophy about streetcars and what makes a good street. Alas, changing our public philosophies is what Americans do poorly, at best. 😢
Thank you very much for your comment! It is nice to understand that this video has it's viewer.
America builds transit on the idea if built they will come. LA has built more than anyone else in recent years and yet even along side freeways the freeway traffic hasn’t subsided one whit. For one thing the headway between trains is often ridiculously long, 30 minutes or longer, so it’s not all that attractive to ride trains; and of course nothing has been done to stop subsidizing cars. Freeways? Why? Why aren’t all such roadways fareways? Why is there still so much free parking, when there shouldn’t be any free parking, anywhere? Why are cars allowed in Yosemite? You can’t have good transit when single family homes along stroads are still the norm and cars are perceived as free transport.
13:42 The tendency of drivers would be to follow the rails , the dashed white line is a lane separation indicator. Yes, it is an awkward setup.
I think it's the track junction, where one track seems to be end abruptly immediately after it, that's truly befuddling.
Union strikes were not a factor since they were replaced by busses which were driven by the same union membership.
they never should have gone away with them and now they are all trying to backtrack its kinda sad. I don't want to complain because they are adding trams even if it isn't perfect I do see more states and cities fixing it up to be more walkable and taking bikes and hopefully they keep adding trams and more buses
Ybor city in Tampa has its own tram system
Blaming the end of the streetcar on workers seeking basic rights is like blaming immigrants for a lack of work. Workers seeking basic rights aren't to blame for anything but the bettering of society as a whole. A rising tide raises all ships. The streetcar's downfall is due to people in power, not people without power.
I would not say that this is an indictment of the workers. Maybe I didn't express myself clearly enough, but in general it is about the fact that stopping trams for months forced their passengers to look for other ways of transportation, including switching to a private cars.
I absolutely did not mean that the workers had no right to fight for their rights. Of course they had. But I think the phrase that our rights end where other people's rights begin would be appropriate here.
I mean that blocking of trams for months and especially the burning of tram cars, which can be seen in many photographs, could cause some consequences for streetcar systems.
@@cityforall But the impact of these strikes are marginal. Most street car system came to an end because car manufacturers lobbied against them. If I'm not mistaken some even purchased the system just to tear it down.
@@thastayapongsak4422 looks like you haven't watched the video,cause all this was mentioned there :)
A light rail extension from downtown Sacramento to the airport will be a big improvement.
Go ahead and look into the Hawthorne bridge in Charlotte if you want to bang your head against a wall, it's a doozy. Also, I contributed to that shelter's artwork :D.
"Two sun" not "Tuck son" lmao
You left out Portland, which, in my opinion, is the template for almost ALL of these systems youve shown. Ive done research on American Streetcars and Portland Streetcar has promoted how easy and cheap it is to build a streetcar system using their method, which is one block at a time, tearing up just enough street to lay the tracks, add the rebar and cement and get portion back open. If you look at almost ALL of these systems, thats what they've done. Each city has their variations as to what they wanted to do, but the pattern still fits. It all comes off of the Portland Streetcar design model.
Also, while I'm typing this you also peft out Spokane and Seattle. They both have streetcar lines.
Maybe I'll make a video about it later. In this I've took 10 newest systems and Portland's system is just not new enough
8:38 is extremely weird to me. Not because the streetcar line go in a different direction of traffic, but how the line was built into the street.
It looks like each rail was built separately from each other. Not like a traditional railbed.
Maybe an engineer could explain the technique being used here.
Anyway, having the streetcar line in the middle of the street does present a problem for right turns. And traffic going straight will have to halt when ever a Streetcar line is in this section.
They should have built this line on the right side of the street closes to the side leading to this section.
Sharing streetcar tax with bicycles can be a trap too . In Copenhagen before they removed streetcars in 1977 the streetcar flanges were extra narrow due to the amount of bicycles safety .
Not sure if I've understood you correctly
@@cityforall Well i meant "tracks" instead of "tax " if that helps . But i was advocating for narrow wheel flange profiles for street cars for greater safety in sharing traffic in public streets . This was used in Copenhagen back in the day and maybe other places . Most modern streetcars have huge railroad like flange profiles .
Someone looking at our system today compare to their system in the 1900s ask the question, what happened?
Nice, but you should look at Portland Oregon, which seems to be well designed.
Also, FYI "Tucson" is pronounced "TOO-sawn." Weird, I know. Crazy English...! 😅
18:50 vehicle is sized by ridership, not vice versa, running bigger empty trams is the opposite of efficiency.
Of course, and a bridge should be built only where at least 1,000 people a day swim across the river :)
Some things should be done in perspective.
The bus gets it's own "lane" while the Cincinnati streetcar doesn't because the streetcar really only services the business districts while the busses go all over and carry more passengers. I'm not arguing that this makes sense, it's just how they built it. It's a novelty for people who work downtown to go get lunch or for people who drive downtown to park their car once then take the streetcar to move between the gentrified destinations. They had to make it free to get people riding it. If it actually serviced neighborhoods where people live, not just business districts they might get enough riders to give it a dedicated lane but all attempts to expand the lines get shot down.
I see
13:44 looks like a provision for future expansion
May be. But those tracks in the middle are heading the same direction so I don't see the reason for this doubling.
@@cityforall i assume the middle tracks merge into a turnaround pocket track after the station, which admittedly is still a cery weird way of doing it
@@cyri96 Looks like this but it's really weird.
For this purpose it enough jist to add an X-crossing and then - continue the rails. That's how it works in France with new double-headed trams.
😀
Funny thing is that conspiracy theory, was actually true for at least LA (and likely extended to more cities).
I did not know Atlanta or Charlotte was big enough to host a streetcar system.
Atlanta has a subway system as well! It is far more useful than the streetcar
@@wwsciffsww3748 no. I was referring to the time it had an extensive streetcar system.
RIP lovely tree 😞