As an interracial adoptee these type of crimes fascinate me. My half brother and I grew up together he was adopted 3.5 years before me. Our adoptive parents are amazing! Our dad was on the Canadian National parole board for 35+ years and my brother was one of the most prolific meth dealers in our area. It was a colourful adolescent to say the least. My brother and I never missed treated and our parents gave us ever opportunity anyone could imagine. The area we grew up in is very affluent. Some ppl with adoption trauma never get over it. Unfortunately my brother has passed away due to laced meth and unfortunately I wasn’t surprised, heartbroken of course but not surprised. Like I said some adoptees are forever haunted no matter how much support and love they get. Great job as always Doc you always show these type of topics with the quibby but respectful info. Keep being the only sane one here!
@@canileaveitblank1476 Denise's only family was the adopted kids and them not being around , she was entirely by herself in that isolated spot she chose to built a house onto. this ought to have been one of the many reasons why she probably thought "they are all i have and i could be a failure". it is sad all around and my biggest fear is dealing psychos because i could be brainwashed . lord help us
@@canileaveitblank1476 in the uk, she would have had both children removed from her care, once those conditions were discovered. it seems there was no proper safe-guarding investigation undertaken when one ran away. she was obviously not in a position to care for those children.
As a person who was adopted I could never repay back the kindness of my adoptive parents. Yes we have had disagreements but never to the point I would consider taking their life. This cat had anti social behavior tendencies from the start and they became amplified with the drug use. Very sad case. What type of social worker did they have? I remember my social worker even as an adult and he kept tabs on how I was doing in the foster homes before I was adopted. He was my counselor and a good social worker that cared about my well being up until I was adopted. Social workers are suppose to be liaisons between the child and the adoptees.
I personally do not agree with the narratives in the comments under this video. I find it appalling the way we judge even children to a horrible fate never believing they can grow and change. I am more afraid of the destruction these adults in the comments are doing in the world.
I had a colleague who adopted two children - and they were way in over their heads. The kids came from a drug addicted parents and it seems they were affected by this, which made them very difficult (and very expensive) to care for.
I too am curious about the biology of the boys and what circumstances they came from. I hunch says that was far more troubled than Denise ever knew. R.i.p
I love in Honduras and I can say that these children suffer from hunger, physical and sexual abuse, neglect , substance abuse, since the day they are born. It's an awful situation that happens to literally millions of children here. The mothers of these children are lost souls themselves, abuse substances, have no education and no skills to find a job are often abused as well. The fathers are often missing or are extremely abusive. These children are cursed since the day they are born, nobody cares for them, they are unable to develop correctly because they never have enough food or nutritious food. The mother often feeds the child water with sugar and only that. These children have lost everything before they are even born. No matter how much you want to help these children you simply can't. It's an awful situation all around.
@@salishseas Its not about will its about money and its about waking up to what is really going on i the world Change scares everyone Look what happened during Coivd when people had to wear a paper mask!
I served on a jury that was trying an 18 year old girl for murder. Her mother testified that she and her husband took turns sleeping for fear she would attack them. They were so poor they had few alternatives to get out of their situation. The thing I got from the trial is distrust of mental health professionals. Her defense was insanity. Five phyciatrists testified in the trial as to her condition and no 2 diagnosis were the same. We found her guilty because she tried to hide her crime, which indicated she knew the difference between right and wrong. This girl had all kinds of mental and behavioral problems. She was in and out of mental health facilities. Our mental health infrastructure appeared to me incapable of dealing with her. The mass shooters we have experienced all have mental health issues. We simply do not have the resources to deal with these people.
You are right; we do not have the resources to deal with many people with mental health issues. That is because we do not invest in mental health infrastructure.
You are totally correct. The reason we don't is that it is not popular with people. It doesn't get politicians re-elected. Sending arms to Ukraine is popular. Funding research for for the spotted leg leopard frog is popular. Trying to ban guns is popular. The global climate change hoax is popular. Another problem is if a person is committed to a mental health infrastructure is there due process. If there isn't it will look like our dept of homeland security where parents objecting to their childrens curricula are designated domestic terrorist. It might be accomplished on a state level but our federal govt is too corrupt to make it happen.
I have to admit, I counseled my daughter against adopting. In the past I had been a fan of adoption but having worked with and interacted with kids and adults who were adopted, I have concerns. Since it is no longer a stigma to keep your baby if unwed or too young, the children who come into care these days do so for a reason Some of these reasons are very serious and potentially genetic. I’ve seen kids with long term effects from their mother’s drug and alcohol use. I’ve seen people suffering with inherited (?) mental and emotional problems and people who continue the biological families issues or who suffer a myriad of mental health issues before committing suicide. While I feel bad, not to see children in care find stable loving families, I felt the gamble of taking in a child in this age was too much. My daughter would be a single parent. Raising a child is so hard at any time but especially now. Raising one with issues by yourself is too big a risk. I wish I didn’t feel this way, but I do. I’m trying to protect my child.
I was raised Jewish in a horrible foster care home where I was Stalked daily and harrassed. My biological parents were unwed immigrants. My mom is Filipino Chinese and Korean CHICANO Familia heritage's. My biological father is Ethiopian Italian Indian heritage and culture. I located my mom is living in San Diego California area on Facebook page. I'm hopeful that I can have peace and a relationship with my biological parents
@@crenfick7750 most families have some type or types of health or mental issues, somewhere in it’s make up. But you know what they might be and can be more prepared. For example, with alcoholism in both sides of mine and my husband’s families, I brought my kids up to be aware and to monitor their drinking. All 3 are either very light drinkers or abstain completely. Also, I have worked with and seen kids who suffer from the long term effects from fetal alcohol and drug use. I’ve cleared the house after a good friend ( who was adopted) finally succeeded in killing himself. I came to realize, while sorting through things for his mother, how early his mental issues started. It’s was clear how much time and effort they put into helping him. No one is promised a perfect life but you can try to prevent setting up a bad situation. I feel today, there are many more problems and issues that can severely affect these kids. Raising a child as a single parent ( which is what she planned to do) is very difficult. I just thought it was too big of a gamble.
@@leesteal4458 My daughter, like most woman, is more than capable of creating a good life and raising a child alone if she had to, but why take the risk ? It’s better not to rely on a partner who may not have the strength of character for the tough fight and has delusions of grandeur. A partner for the sake of a second pair of hands is worse than useless. Realistic and careful planning will get you farther. The wrong partner will be a toxic albatross. As for the child- there are many kids for whom growing up without their father might have been a blessing. Being there doesn’t mean your present.
My late partner was adopted and he deeply loved and respected his parents. Briefly, after he married a much older woman with 3 kids and 2 nutty exes, he was separated from his parents in communication. They were really upset about the relationship. He was still a teenager. After a few years both they and he couldn't stand the rift anymore so they made up. They all got together again and the family was blended successfully. He remained married to his wife for 43 years, her death, and supported his youngest stepson until he, himself, died. I have never known a nobler man. Just saying: being adopted and having issues with your family is ordinary stuff. Killing them is something else.
Unfortunately, cases like this are the exceptions that prove the rule. Every family I've ever known of, that has adopted (whether babies or older kids) has had massive, abnormal difficulties with the adopted child. I've been closely involved in several different church communities over the course of my life and I've seen this play out in so many different ways. One sad common denominator I've seen is the rosy, fairy tale religious view of adoption that just cannot match the reality. These poor couples were ultimately fed deceptive propaganda about the realities of adoption, genetics, mental illness, drug problems, and childhood trauma. Two couples I used to know well even divorced in large part because of this, they were in way over their heads and couldn't cope when reality didn't match their fantasies. Adoption is an immeasurably risky gamble even for couples in the best of circumstances. I only know one woman who was able to adopt on her own, but I can only imagine that it must be far, far harder. She was never really able to bond with her adopted daughter (7), and the girl still has problems to this day, including mental problems, truancy, and dropping out of college. Personally, I think it's a grave mistake for a single woman to try to raise boys on her own at all, with the culture the way it is now. It's a losing battle. If you have fertility problems, honestly the best investment you can make is in finding treatments to help you conceive, not adopting kids with unknowable backgrounds, genetics, and trauma who are likely to turn your world upside down--and in some cases like this one, even harm or kill you or your family. Sad, but true.
@@FloppityFlopFlop777 people need to even listen to the trailer for the primal wound to gather a basic understanding of the trauma adoption does. That’s why adoptees have so many issues, well one reason, they are very traumatised children from the get go and rarely is their pain ever dealt with or acknowledged. This isn’t as uncommon as people think.
@F C you can still end up with a child who grows up and screws up even if you’re the birth parents and even if there’s both parents around. No guarantees in life about anything.
I agree. All families and long term relationships have their ups and downs and all human beings have strengths and frailties but we don't go round killing eachother.
When I was a teenager I knew a guy whose parents owned a business he worked for his parents. He was doing drugs at some point and he took an ax and tried to chop their bedroom door down. The parents were terrified. They call the police he went to jail. They called everyone that knew him abs asked not to bail him out. They put the house up for sale. Three weeks later his dad had a heart attack and died. His mother moved and never told him where she lived she was scared to death of her own son. Very sad story. I saw him homeless a few years later. He was a good looking guy when he was younger, but drugs ate him away. Very sad.
Was he adopted??? Was that his biological parents? You see I have saw a comment on a different CZcams channel. It is not exactly to point as they had other parts in their comment, the reason why they thought a woman had a few miscarriages was because he believed that she was incapable of loving a child however you get women who take drugs during pregnancy and still get to have a baby at the end of it ok so the baby may have some other problems. No different to people saying adopted babies are more traumatized than a non adopted child it is another thing to cause division in society. It does not matter if the child is adopted or not adopted something has gone wrong it does not matter if the parents believed they were doing a wonderful job with bringing their child up something went wrong somewhere.
💔 I feel bad for the father. All that stress and heartbreak brought him to his demise. Can’t say I blame the mother nor do I feel bad for the son. 🤷🏽♀️
Its sad situation that father died from heart attack but his mother was wise woman to sold the house and moved away . I saw many relationship that emotional attachment ended up murder or suicide.
I’m familiar with two families who adopted drug addicted babies at a very young age and had constant heartbreak and difficulty raising these children. The children basically held their families hostage and terrorized them. I taught these children and feel so sorry for those families.
The thing is the children have trauma from when they're born (and probably even during their mother's pregnancy) unless adoptive parents understand this and get the children appropriate help they will not be able to prevent the difficulties the children will grow up with.
If any of you are struggling as a single mom, or for any reason, please get help. It’s not easy! If it is easy, you’re probably doing it wrong! My son was such a handful (that’s putting it lightly). We didn’t want to put him on ADD medication. We took him to a neuro-psychologist and he had weekly neurofeedback sessions. I feel like it helped a lot. That, and then going to a private school with small class size. By the time he finished 6th grade, he was totally in control of his emotions and impulses and doing very well in school. He is now a straight A student and basketball player and such a great kid! All I am saying is, don’t give up! Also, nip it in the bud. The earlier, the better.
Congrats to you, mom! Well done. Those situations sometimes don’t end with that much success. Always go to the best neuro specialists. I let the school do very little psych help with our child. They tried insinuating themselves but those answers don’t rest in the school very often. Always get a neuro psych evaluation from a neurologist. Get your own specialist not affiliated with the school system. Out of town and out of county.
@@carolbell8008 Absolutely... Those 9 months could be the most critical time of all. Baby is hooked up to mom's blood supply. If mom is full of stress hormones that's what the baby's brain is developing on.
How about this she Has 2 failed marriages abused and screwed up 2 Different children from 2 different countries. She's not the victim. I believe she Reaped what she sowed.
Hey there handsome, Dr. Thanks for telling this story. Family members of mine adopted two sons, four and two. They were loving and well-intentioned, but the boys already had a lot of trauma by these ages. They lived a life of crime despite the very different values they were brought up with. A reminder that babies must learn trust immediately. Thanks again, Dr. G. Have a great Sunday.
They might have been traumatized, but that doesn't pass muster with me as an excuse. One or both of them might have had primary psychopathy, which is thought to have a genetic component.
Adopted 2 fostered 4 and training helps but nothing truly prepares you for dealing with the Trama & mental health issues some of these kids have. Many parents put locks on their bedroom doors. Getting mental health support is a slow process and takes a fight. Mental health professionals often have never Lived with a person with these issues… so don’t really know from experience.
Considering we found out Carlos was good at hiding his psychiatric issues, could he have secretly traumatized Angel? Angel was so young when he was adopted. Just thinking out loud!
Honestly, as a fellow teacher it's hard for her to explain away the locked room and bucket. I think Dr. Grande is being a bit too generous with the amount of abuse on the part of the adoptive mother. I do think that perhaps Angel was abused by Carlose and then acted out, making it easy for Carlos to play the good boy and manipulate their mother into thinking Angel was the problem child. He was removed from the home... they don't do that all willy nilly. We dont have the full story, in my opinion.
@@Violexie-wb7op yeah i agree and i think the mother's behaviour was more than a little abusive. Making one clean the bathroom naked? That is humiliation and degradation. And then if Carlos was ASPD he could have been self medicating with drugs, and she tried to control too much.
@@lonelylantern9135 well the claim about the bathroom naked is disputed. But the locked room and pee bucket were found by officials so we know that is a valid concern. The bathroom cleaning we dont know for sure if the mom made him do that. But it could have been Carlos doing that to abuse Angel. If he had ASPD the likelihood is HIGH that he was abusing his afoptive brother.
Sadly, there are many people who will see a case like this and say this is why you should never adopt, even though most adopted children do not murder their adoptive parents.
You're right! Most kids who murder their parents are the parents' biological kids, but people irrationally notice more when it's adopted kids who commit murders.
@@jackiepowell7513absolutely wrong. I know my child's mother, knew everything about her before I chose to have a child with her. The child is 50% me 50% her. I know pretty much what I'm in for.
This was a tragic ending for Carlo's mother. He had zero remorse for his actions. I think he is a psychopath and narcissist.🤔 Hopefully this person will never leave prison. Intriguing analysis Dr.G. 👩
@@acommentator4452 parents who sexually abuse their children deserve it if their children decide to kill them. Most children of these parents never do this, and they live their entire lives suffering emotionally and psychologically and, very often, physically. Oh, and not all, but very many, children who were sexually abused by their parents go on to sexually abuse their own children. Anyone who believes that parents aren’t sexually abusing their children left and right either aren’t paying attention, or their own brains are damaged from being abused themselves as children. This is what causes people to develop personality disorders, for the most part. Especially cluster B disorders. The exception is what is known as sociopathy, not to be confused with psychopathy. Sociopaths are actually men with untreated/undiagnosed ADHD, whose mothers were not capable of/prepared to deal with the challenges of raising such a gifted/special child.
I’ve worked a lot of jobs. Farm kid, waiter, roofer, bar tender, sailor, printer, bus driver, and my last (or maybe just current) job as an attorney. But the hardest job I ever had was being a parent. I can understand how hard it is to get that one right. I won’t judge her.
I couldn't have said it better myself! And to think.. basically Anyone can have a child. This kid had issues from the get go, and methamphetamine only increased the likelihood of him becoming violent. She didn't know how to handle him...sad case
That's okay, I will. 😒 I feel horrible about what happened to her, she didnt deserve that. She wanted to contribute to the world, share some of her resources, and she wound up with a kid with antisocial personality disorder. Talk about bad luck. However, I do believe she was abusing those kids. Hard to explain away the locked room and bucket, especially from a TEACHER. She resigned from her job because she was probably pressured to resign after the findings of how she was treating her foster child. We can get fired over nudes, you think they'd let a teacher keep their job who was locking children in a room with a bucket? Nah.
@MmeFangsAlot no you're ridiculous to say otherwise. It takes the same or more time, energy and dedication as a job! A Job can be unpaid. You sound like you don't have any children
Somehow, to me anyway, taking an ax to a person’s head while they sleep bridges that distance between conduct disorder and antisocial personality disorder. Especially when you consider he took the time to sharpen the ax and afterward disposed of evidence.
I don't like this psychokogical categorization. antisozial personality and etc.... You can simply say, anger or vindictivness or revenge. You don't need any scientific definition.
Should have been put on death row. We have a humane way of putting them down now; no more electric chairs, gas chambers or hanging. Just euthanize them; we don't lock up mad dogs until they die of old age.
@@marielleo4715just seen this. It is most likely he has an antisocial personality (disorder) & he may even be a psychopath - this is most likely the case whether or not you like scientific/psychological definitions - this is not just a simple case of anger or revenge 🙁
For personal reasons I won’t disclose you don’t know what the children you invite into your home have experienced. . As an adoptive mom I can’t undo the blueprint the adults have left on their lives. All I could do is show them a different path. Seldom do they embrace it.
When I was teen (in Germany), we had neighbours who were foster parents. They both had a professional background in social work and received a lot of advice and support, but it was still tough on them. I don't recall how many foster kids they had, I know of half a dozen, but only one of them did not break their hearts. They were usually in their early teens when they came to them after being neglected or abused by their birth parents. Yet when the fosterers provided the kids with reliable boundaries, they idolized their birth parents and demonized the fosterers. The last one even was downright dangerous and the foster parents worried she might harm them or neighbours (she was borderline iirc, but also had some anger issues) so when they had lots of struggles with her they did not continue to foster. Now, for me it was just sad to see the mess these kids apparently came from, the harm that this continued to cause in the kids' lives, and the pain it caused to the fosterers. It got me disillusioned. The thought of helping kids to heal and giving them a loving home is great. But to think of foster and adoptive parents who may not all be as well-equipped as my neighbours to deal with the damage that the birth parents have caused is just scary.
Nah Kathy, you just need to do better. Of course some children won’t be receptive to big changes, and most will be resistant. But the whole point is to work hard to get through ti them and help them give themselves a good life. My friend’s parents adopted 3 girls from 2 different violent, drug-riddled families. They’ve fostered dozens and dozens of children. They’ve been extremely successful with the girls and have been contacted by many old foster children thanking them for helping them becomes good, responsible people.
I wouldn't have even known where to go to get drugs or alcohol when I was 13 years old. How do certain kids find their way to these substances so easily?
@@leemcbride717 l find it hard to believe that their mother Ms Halloway was living in a 'drug-culture' environment...??? She was a teacher and looked very prim & proper. So where did it all start? What went wrong?
Its really hard to raise kids harder as a single female and even harder when they arent your biological children because many times you dont know their thinking pattern and fail to recognize things until its too late.
@@corporalmarcellus9811 you do know she was murdered ? what's funny about that. have some respect. if you've got nothing sensible to say, remain silent. or listen, read, and learn from the grown-ups among us.
@@acommentator4452 Yes, let the “grown-ups” talk. Was Denise a grown up? Two divorces, gave her vows while skydiving, and then she adopted and abused two immigrant children. When you look at the details, Denise is clearly bonkers.
I wonder what kind of male (especially Latinoamerican) role models these boys had,...doesn't seem like they had _any._ Having had the experience of being the object of deferred hatred of my father by my mother and sister after he ran away I can tell you it's pretty hard to deal with - and I was _17_ at the time...not 4yo!
It is strange how two adopted sons could simultaneously turn out very badly even under a household that appear very healthy. Such a sad story! Thank you Dr. Grande. It's always a pleasure watching your videos and listening to your analysis!
@martin stone I can certainly emphasize. I spent half my childhood with my paternal grandmother. Was a nightmare, not as bad as living with my bio parents.
@@crenfick7750 you're right. I suppose many have had a happy childhood, both with bio parents and adopted parents. So many have idealized childhood as a happy time in life. Me personally I couldn't wait to be on my own.
As an adoptive mother I would like to add one point. I have 2 of my own children, who were relatively easy to bring up, but our adopted child and the things around his family and social services brought an incredible amount of stress to our family, to the point where I became disabled. Everything finally turned out for the better and we're a pretty happy family. But it amazes me how much I love this boy, even more so because of the problems and because we were the only ones who could make it or break it. However, unlike this woman, I had the support of my husband and many others-otherwise I'm sure I couldn't have managed. So, I imagine that she also had a great love for both of these boys, even to the very end-but she needed support from somewhere to manage them.
Every time there’s a story like this, people speak against adoption. There’s a lot of stigma. But biological kids do the same things. My relative who was almost beaten to death by her drug-addicted biological son told my cousin to not adopt because the kids would be troublesome. Biology is really strange sometimes.
Drugs make them heartless, deceitful liars, ungrateful, disrespectful. I've been through it. It not all adopted kids do this but all I no its a very very sad ending when u least think it's going to end this way.
I have 2 adopted children, 1 from Guatemala. The mental health issues are huge. It will be a lifetime struggle. I knew going in it could be rough. Its worse than I imagined. I feel bad for Denise, and Carlos too. It probably could have been avoided, but it would be hard to believe someone you have done so much for, could be capable of killing you. Tragic.
We have to realise that 1. Some people are beyond help 2. Some people are undeserving of help 3. There's a difference between being helpful and being too dumb for your own good
I would never have a biological child. You never know what their true personality will be. Or even worse, he could be retarded and then I'd really be stuck. Selfish perhaps, but that's just me.
I'd be interested to hear more about adoptive relationship dynamics. From what I understand they can be more difficult than media portrayals would have one think
You are absolutely correct - there's an enormous number of dysfunctional adoptive relationships. Many adoptive parents think they will get a perfect child that will meet their needs but they adopt a human being and as carers for the child they haven't got what it takes to be a good parent.
The American system sounds really bad. The fact that some families just do it for money or religious reasons and not just to give unconditional love to someone, is sad.
Meghan: I can attest that in a healthy home the issue of adoption is not on the mind every day. If they are raising the child as their own then it is just a normal family stuff like all families deal with. You can't watch TV till you've done your homework, you can't have desert before we have dinner..... just crappy normal stuff. It not a dagger to be held over the child's head ...to constantly make them feel not part of the family... like : we'll take you back if you don't behave.... it can't work like that.
Often kids who come from parents with violent tendencies will inherit those tendencies, not just through experience, but also as a character trait that is hardwired in their DNA. I know a Swiss couple who went to South America and adopted two brothers, 8 and 4, from a very poor, dysfunctional and violent family. They took them to Switzerland, gave them love, a great education, a beautiful home in front of a lake, and ski trips every other weekend. An idyllic life, really. The kids showed a very low IQ and there wasn’t much that could be done about that. As soon as the kids became teenagers, they started committing crimes, like burglarizing houses and shops, something very uncommon in that small Swiss town. By the time they were around 20, they committed one of the most violent murders in the history of Switzerland. No amount of love from the parents could save those young men from themselves. Big heartbreak and headache for the parents and for the entire community, which was changed forever by the violence these foreign kids brought.
Good Lord. That's horrific. It's heartbreaking that well-meaning people have to learn through such extreme cases. It's scary and dangerous the level of denial many people have about this issue.
@@thedarknessunderneathpodca6366: It can both nurture and nature. The violence of the parents may be learned but it can also be an innate tendency that kids inherit.
@@thedarknessunderneathpodca6366 Yes, especially at 8 years old. He was nursed on violence and cruelty. Factor in drugs and abandonment. The world saw what happened with many of the children out of orphanages from the Eastern Block during the 90s. Having no physical touch changes the brain.
@@carrington2949 the primal wound is a wound all adoptees have and is caused by the wound of being given up by your mother. The adoption would have added extra trauma to those boys, not helped.
Never judge parents who adopt children, then have a change of heart. I was adopted when I was six years old. I did not suffer abuse from my adoptive parents. However I was abused as an infant with my biological mother. Where the abuse came in, was from the other foster children - namely my foster brothers. My parents had no idea as we girls were intimidated into silence. I look back now and thank God that my parents did not adopt those boys. I have known other people who are in the middle of adoptions or just completed adoptions who sadly decided to abandon the process. The reasons were to protect the girls in their household after the girl spoke up about what was going on. It doesn't happen in every family, but it does happen.
Sadly, many adoptive children have experienced trauma in their early years at the hands of their caregivers and adoptive parents need to be prepared for that. These children and families need post adoption support and therapy to address the trauma they have suffered and to help them develop an attachment with their adoptive parents. In some ways it was inevitable this wasn't going to end well with her trying to manage them, with all their needs on her own.
Excellent point. I keep hearing about the attachment issues adopted kids have, even in the best of situations. This means that there needs to be more support and a proactive mindset toward therapy.
@@jamesbowman6925 it's called nuance and realism. It doesn't excuse the actions of the murderer. Why would you possibly argue against therapy for adopted families to try to get ahead of these issues before they escalate to murder?
The very act of being ripped away from your mother, even as a newborn, causes the primal wound. Look it up on CZcams, every single adopted child is traumatised. All of them.
“ The wedding took place while skydiving. She exchanged vows with her husband either right before they jumped out of the plane or as they were plummeting towards the earth, which is a fitting metaphor when considering the outcome of many marriages” 🤣🤣😂 Your sense of humour is the best 💙
I always wonder why people go to other countries to adopt children. Every country - including your own country - has children who need an adoptive family. This probably has nothing at all to do with the violence these two children displayed, but I always wonder about that.
I enjoy the reading comments when I watch a CZcams video. Many of the comments expressed here are personal, heartfelt and eyeopening. And to think, if YT didn't exist, we wouldn't be having this amazing discussion. Regular television could never get to this level of depth as we see in the comments AND the video. The comment section always adds to the interest of the video. I hope the people who run adoption agencies or study them and foster kids, will use this comment section as a resource of information for their research in helping parents and kids in the future.
I went to a small private Christian school with Carlos. It is so eerie seeing the polite and charming football player be capable of something like this. Just shows how well some mental illness can be disguised. Thanks for the through run down. Would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the Jessica Lungsford case that happened also in my hometown years ago.
Yes, after the adoption. He was a few grades below me but I saw him often as our school was Pre-K-12 th grade. he was friends with good kids and was highly regarded on our schools small football team. If you have any specific questions I can try to answer them, but everyone heard of Denise and the abuse accusations and just as quickly the rumor went around that Angel the younger brother made the story up and police didn’t find any evidence so everyone kind of blew it off. He was so polite (to the point looking back it almost feels rehearsed) and he was very well liked. Maybe he would be considered a little quiet but never anti-social or “strange”. I know everyone says they never imagine someone they know doing something like this, but it did feel very surreal to hear about. Such gruesome crimes of that extent hardly ever happen in our sleepy little town. We have our deal of drug busts and neglect; but not too many axe murders.
I have known a few folks who adopted, not for the kid's benefit but for their own glory, "Look what a good person I am" and although it didn't turn out this bad ... still a toxic mess. Better go in with your eyes wide open and with a tremendous amount of knowledge .
Oh, wow, that's sad. I haven't personally seen self-glorification as a common trait in adoptive parents, but I can see how that would drive narcissistic types. Especially if they're wealthy/infertile. Regardless, I've only ever seen adoption end in toxic messes. The more naive the parents were, the worse it seems to end up.
People would be so surprised to hear how common this is. In adoptee support groups the stories from adoptees with these type of adoptive parents are heartbreaking.
No good deed goes unpunished. People have an idealized vision of doing good. Quite often they're in over their head. Donating to charity or volunteering once in a while is one thing. Actually spending time with troubled people and investing your time and energy full time is another.
I was adopted from South Corea to Switzerland from "good" people wanting so badly to do "good deeds" that they became highly abusive in order to fulfil their "dream"
@@sonodiventataunalbero5576 Whatever your life has been in Switzerland, trust me, it's a thousand time better than growing up an orphan in South Korea.
@@gwang-mu9251 maybe. I still had family back in SK, but they were too poor. My siblings who remained behind made it well, though. My adoptive mother used to call us little shitty Koreans, telling us she regretted adoption. Her brother sexually abused me and she hit me. So, maybe better adopted than orphan in SK. Or maybe not? 🤷♀️
As an adopted child It sometimes bothers me when people say things like when people make distinctions like adopted mother in any statement except where you need to differentiate between the two. My mom was my mom, my real mom and I was her daughter not adopted daughter. Giving birth is relatively easy when measured against years of sleepless nights and endless worry over the years. What happens after the child is born. That sounds intense but I don’t mean it to be
The news media always picks out something that’s beyond the typical or something that specific about a person, when it has absolutely nothing to do with the event. Like gay couple/former teacher/attorney killed in wreck. It catches people’s attention, which of course is what they want. The thing with the adopted part, specifically, is bothersome because it plays into the horror stories about maladjusted adopted children and the implication they might be defective from birth, when it’s bio kids who cause more issues, comparatively.
@@gabe-po9yi Unless you are stating that biological children cause more issues as a percentage of their group then it would seem likely that biological children would cause more issue in terms of raw numbers.
I love my adopted children. I didn't bring them into the world, but I wanted them for many years. I am not their biological mother, but I am their mother/mommy/mama is every way that counts. Their bio mother was unable to raise them and I not only loved them before they arrived, but I put the time in. I cleaned clothes, messes, told stories, gave hugs and cried with them. We made memories, passed milestones, and we laughed. We have had really hard times. Extensive behavioral issues and psychiatric, academic, social, and emotional struggles. No matter what, they are my children and I love them.
Everyone should look at the primal wound here on CZcams, watch the trailer first for a quick run down, and it gives you a way better idea of the mental issues he would have had as an adoptee, especially as an interracial/international adoptee.
Unfortunately people don't care what happens to children. They don't care what they go through. They just want to be seen as heroes for trying to save them.
There are more boys within the system . More males are born ( nature ) and abandoned ( nurture). In families where both parents become incarcerated the female children , are usually kept by a family member . Whereas , the males are surrendered to the state. I worked in an inner city , social program . The number of male children thrown into foster care is double that of females . It's heartbreaking .
@@cottoncandisandi6109 This is good insight into the situation. Not ideal for a single woman to adopt boys but you've shown that sometimes there's a necessity.
Mary P , I agree about " single " women fostering or adopting , children . The best situation includes a mother and father . The dream situation would be a 2 parent household with one of the parents , coming from adoption or fostering , themselves . The system is messy .
Adopting children is a lottery. Many have the unfortunate background of having mothers who are drug addicts and they may be born as addicts themselves. They never get a chance.
adopting is a lottery entirely. oh both sides. imagine landing in an abusive household . i've got enough relatives who are good at maintaining perfect social appearance and i've got an aunt whose entire working life is fabricated. its hella uncomfortable frankly. yikes.
@@PHlophe Yes some parents are monsters but here we have the worst combination. Drug addict parents or parents who gave up kids or had them taken away because they were so bad they could not care for the kids and social services had no clue how bad the children would be. Their criminal genes and their ones for tattooing were too powerful for their own good.
@@jamesparlane9289 I was apprehended at birth because my mother was a heroin addict. My adoptive parents were insanely absusive and should have gone to jail for what they did to me. I also became a junkie (6.5 years clean and sober now). It could be argued that I never had a chance. Yet, I did not take an axe to my mother's head. I wonder a lot about what makes the difference between someone like Carlos and someone that didn't murder their adoptive parents.
@@Ira_Rosenberg I feel very angry when I read about what happened to you. What a hellish start in life, and what a burden to overcome. I know it must affect you in many ways and cause you pain, but as you rightly say , experiencing prolonged injustice as a child didn't stop you knowing right from wrong, or spotting cruelty when you saw it. It probably gave you a heightened aptitude for those things. It's wonderful too, and a testament to your commitment to your own recovery, that you have all that clean time under your belt. My hat is off to you!
I work in inverness and one of the first things people told me about the area was the rampant drug use. I see so many kids come into my my office with parents who are in jail or in the streets doing drugs. Many grandparents or other family members have become their adoptive parents. My heart breaks when I think about the long lasting impact this will have on them
Carlos was doing drugs, then dealing drugs? He should have been sent to a juvenile facility before it got that bad. Of course, who knows if that would have helped. Trying to raise boys as a single mother is challenging in the best of circumstances. They usually benefit from strong male role models. I know Denise had the best intentions, but this had the worst possible outcome.
I’m so tired of hearing that kids who are problematic are that way because they didn’t have a man around and not because some people are just criminals and nothing can influence it. Criminals have been around even when both parents were present and as much as some of us would like to think that every problem has an answer, it’s not true,nor realistic.
@@sarcasticallyrearranged It doesn’t matter whether you’re sick of hearing it or not. The data conclusively proves that males without a father in their home suffer in many ways including increased risk of criminality. Your feelings don’t change reality, unfortunately.
@@DarkArtsDeepDive Exactly. Some people act like that statement is just pulled out of thin air, as opposed to being medically proven, peer reviewed data. Feelings over facts is a current danger to society.
@@sarcasticallyrearranged Good grief, did you read my qualifier “usually” benefit? And the experts do say proper male role models for male children are beneficial especially in their teenage years. And I speak from the experience of raising a son whose father remarried and decided to not be in our son’s life anymore. My son was pretty hard to handle as he got older and pushed me to the brink of insanity many times. So throw your hate somewhere else.
This is what happens when naive people adopt older children who have serious histories of trauma. Do the world a favor and do the proper research before adopting. Save yourself and you’ll save the world.
Unconditional love isn’t enough for kids that have been through extreme trauma, love and kindness will be rewarded with eventual theft and physical violence. Becoming a sociopath, sadly, is often an inevitable outcome. I personally know adopted kids that developed anti-social personality traits - stealing money from friends and family, one beat up the father as an adult and now has no contact with him. It’s super sad but I’d never adopt a child unless they were a baby.
@@okarowarrior Look, sometimes you gotta lock em in a room with a bucket. Like when you're sleeping. It's what they do in prison, which was where the boy ended up next. I think Dr. Grande is wrong for assuming she mistreated her kids.
@@jamese8508 I can't say whether or not she mistreated the boys. I do know what it's like to be afraid your child will kill you or your other children while you sleep.
The unanswered question is which came first. Did Denise abuse her sons, and that's why they went sideways, or did she start the abuse when she felt there was no other choice?
@@cht2162--We need more executions to bring those numbers down. My state has a 2-seater gas chamber. 😀 And lower the age limit. It used to be 14 in some states.
As an adult adoptee who was technically kidnapped and wasn’t in the state system. My adopters threatened my birth mother and forced her to sign her rights over. They proceeded to be drug addicts and alcoholics who degraded me and would NOT allow me to talk about my previous traumas. I have been no contact for years ever since my adopters tried taking MY children even though I am a very capable parent and we live a quiet peaceful life… they didn’t like the drama free zone. They’ve got so many folks convinced they are such great folks though 🤢
Your insight and careful analysis was so helpful in sorting this tragedy out. She absolutely did not know who she was dealing and many emotions blinded her judgement. She had a mother’s hope but a psychotic child.
This is why I had always thought that if I were ever to decide to adopt a child, I would have chosen one in their mid-teens..Then it would be easy to tell what kind of person they were, or would become. Also, an older adoption of a kind-hearted teenager would prevent at least one more child from "aging out" of foster care and possibly being abandoned on the street with no safety net.
I know a really sweet family that adopted- thank goodness it didn’t turn out this badly, but it did seem to me that DNA is in part something we just can’t get away from- I realize the goats pupils are a bit odd but I think it innocent until proven guilty!!
I adopted four years old boy who lost his mother and grandmother by his biological father . He was two and half years old and present when his father killed his mother and grandmother. This affects him tremendously cause he was sleep walking and wet bed till he was nine years old . Nowadays he is a successful 33 years old business man . In 2020, he gave me the sweetest birthday card I’ve ever received. “ To my beautiful mother, Happy birthday! Thank you for all the values that you have instilled in me and making me the man that I am . I love you !” The blood doesn’t make a family but love does.
Sorry- the only kid I would adopt is one that I'd met and spent time with to get to know if s/he is violent or emotionally too damaged. I taught for a bit and 95% of my class I would adopt- there were 4 out of 45 that were never going to be ok.
Thank you for another great analysis. I believe Denise needed to reach out for help... I guess that's easy to say after the murder . I can understand why Denise, as a mother figure to Carlos, carried on trying to help and sort Carlos’s problems... Although, she should never have told Carlos that she wishes that she had not adopted him, that's if she did say that which is doubtful. If I were a governor of a prison, I would never allow inmates to tattoo themselves while in prison or wear bandanas... All these things are connected to gangs.
Prisons don’t allow inmates to tattoo themselves. People forget inmates are held up on a cell 23/7. All day everyday they figure out ways to outsmart the guards and find ways to sneak contraband in and make weapons and tattoo guns out of the things that available to them because prison is their home while the guards have a life outside of work and have other thing to worry about and want to go home alive injury free not wanting to bring the stresses of work back home to them.
I found out about reactive attachment disorder when I saw child of rage. That would be a great video. Beth Thomas grew up to be a nurse and her adult interviews are interesting
Ty for this story and for you opinion. Disturbing to say the least. Whenever I hear about selfless people who adopt I automatically think ohhh how sweet, what a happy story... Nope. I wish she would have found good help for them all and lived. RIP
I think there is a serious ethical issue of adopting children out of their native country and taking them away from their own culture. I don't think it contributed much in this case, but I still think it is a problem that Western adoptive parents don't even bother considering. I also imagine thorough assessment of the children and the prospective parents in poorer countries isn't a top priority, especially if the child shows challenging signs.
Not much culture in an orphanage. Do you enjoy being so judgemental? Maybe watch the dying rooms and keep your unwanted negativity and ignorance to yourself
Listen, being adopted is better than not being adopted. she was in the right for wanting to help out less fortunate children. However. As an African American kid who moved from a burrough of NYC to a homogeneous white suburb of LI where I grew up, I can tell you that culture shock is real. So apart from the trauma and issues that they CAME TO HER with, they now have the added trauma of being completely divorced from their culture and people. I'd say that it probably did play a role in this case as it would play a role in any situation where this has happened. The specifics of what happened to the kid, and their personality traits of course would influence the magnitude of impact but its definitely still going to have a significant impact on kids.
@@Violexie-wb7op If you are in a violent or dangerous situation it probably is better to be adopted rather than not. That sort of goes without saying. I just find it rather odd that only white people seem to have this preoccupation with adopting non-white kids who often comes from cultures completely foreign to their own. I don't really know of any examples of non-white parents insisting on adopting white kids or kids of a different race to their own. Maybe those parents do have a sincere desire to help & I am not arguing interracial adoption should be banned but the cynic in me thinks they probably revel in appearing as a savior to a vulnerable, desperate minority. And that feels kind of disturbing to me.
Thank God someone finally saying it. Seems so easy for all these people. One short random clip on CZcams and you might question your roots and your culture, as an adopted child. Also, maybe as someone says it's still better to be adopted than not (don't know to what extent I should agree), but then we should keep these events as a high probability occurrence, without complaining.
The crazy thing is that when I look at the guy’s face, to me he looks normal, chilled out, nice, follows the rules, etc…and then realizing he is a murderer….it is completely shocking To me, he doesn’t look like a person who would hurt somebody! Wow.
Oh, no one ever said it would be easy did they? ... just saying bringing up children is hard work, even when there are two parents and genetically your own.
She should have let the police take those evil kids away. This is how they repay her? She should have gotten rid of Carlos too. Prob saved him from a horrible life and this is how he behaved? Ugh
I had the same thoughts. Psychopaths are born, not made. I wouldn't be surprised if Carlos harmed Angel somehow, though. Some of these comments defending these boys while saying this poor lady deserved to get murdered with an ax for giving them better lives...it's just chilling. Lets you know what sort of people are behind these sympathy-for-the-devil types of arguments.
@@FloppityFlopFlop777 so much agreed FC. It’s the same people who want a halfway house for pedos but def NOT in THEIR hood. People are so afraid of sanity and the truth. Those boys shit all over her. I treat my adoptive mom like gold. She saved me at 11 years old from Jamaica. I’m mixed and they all abused me there. No one ever tells about the abuse mixed kids get from black ppl but that’s another story lol. This world is going nuts. I’m happy a few normal fair ppl are out there ;)
In the eyes of the law it usually comes down to knowing you have chosen to commit a crime. Hiding or covering up is an act that shows awareness of guilt. While there can be mitigating factors that can reduce consequences, it's not absolution in the eyes of the law.
Sometimes the tables are turned. I've recently seen so many incidents of the opposite kind occurring. Be interesting to hear any statistics. Edit: 2 minutes in, and I am already overwhelmed for this woman. THAT is a lot going on...
I think most people want to make a good difference in this world. Adopting child is up there.I sure as she was adopted she wanted to past on this noble act like her parents. All our children is our legacy. LEGACY OF LOVE but everyone is not up to it. They find a way in other ways.
@@eikoqdupree101 yes, ppl are missing that she herself is an adoptee, in the comments. That is actually huge. This isn't a typical case where a non adopted parent adopts some kids and it goes wrong. It's actually quite key and huge that she herself is like them in that she also got adopted. I noticed that right away compared to many other cases that go awry. They're often where the parents themselves were never adopted so they don't know what it's like and they come from a diff perspective on this.
@@catsberry4858 its crazy to me that even adoptive parents are becoming part of this moral credit score keeping if they are " different" and not adoptees themselves. People have gotten out of control
My analysis: Denise was married twice and divorced; as a single woman she really took a risk adopting two boys whose background that she may have known little. Angel and Carlos have probably been through a lot before Denise adopted them, but, then again, you sometimes do not know the mindset of your own biological children. Rules and behaviors for children have to start as soon as child is able to comprehend. You just can't spring it on them, especially during the teen years. Child rearing is the great experiment (as my Mother said). It is something that can make you very joyful or make you realize ---- that it may not be for every one.
I enjoy the subtle interjections of humour that puts a light spin on the absurdity that’s in the mind of the subject matter. Your videos open up a lot of windows of how unexpected and unexplainable people, or humans can be.
Interesting, but I think you left out a very important thing about both Angel and Carlos. I noticed something when working as a Title I aide with with inner city adolescents. Almost invariably, the deeply disturbed boys had no father in the home. Ladies, think twice about taking on the job of raising a boy without a male partner!
I did this with my son. During his teen years there was some trouble. We received counseling and the counselor told me about elder abuse. I should be careful. Thank goodness for a huge extended family, with good male role models. They helped us out incredibly. Also, we all are believers in a good creator. Though, not many attend church on a regular basis. Through a series of almost maricles,he decided to enlist in the Navy. In prep for this, he stopped all worrisome behaviors. Also, male members of my family reached out to him. This is very important for single moms of sons without a father figure. I'm seriously grateful for these gifts. Especially, for my son growing into a wonderful young man. It could have easily gone a different way. We're so lucky.
I think to say that a mother should think twice about taking a boy on her own is a bit of a stretch. There have been many successful relationships with mothers, who raise their sons alone. Additionally, the same could be said about raising a troubled girl on your own, I think if there had been a father in the picture, it would’ve depended on his parenting skills. Was he a pushover that let everyone walk over him or was he a militant type that took zero tolerance toward this behavior having the perfect male around would be nice but I haven’t found him yet.
100% adoption trauma is real. I had amazing adoptive parents and life. It has impacted every aspect of my life. Im 50 and still trying to navigate it. For everyone that says they don't have trauma (which is great) there are likely many more who are afraid to come out and speak up. Because we get called ungrateful, and told how horrible we are. Just because you didn't, doesn't mean that's everyone's story and we need respect people when they say they have trauma from being adopted.
This comment, while well-intentioned, is deeply problematic and speaks to the fear of abandonment Carlos described that explains his actions. Carlos said that Denise made her love contingent and made sure he knew how much she had spent on him and how grateful he should be. Sure, we should take that with a grain of salt, but it does speak to a broader issue. Parents CHOOSE to have kids. Parents OWE their children love and kindness. Kids should never feel that their parents' love is based on gratitude, and kids owe parents nothing for having them. You don't get a high-five for spending money on your kids or for tackling the difficult rigors of growing up in today's world. Again, that's your job as a parent. The same principle applies for adoptive parents, which are really just parents. When you CHOOSE to adopt, just like when you CHOOSE to have a child, you choose to assume the responsibility of that. Kids should be made to feel like they have to worship their parents to retain their love or security.
😐 Most people don’t know how real spiritual DNA is. That’s why it’s a good idea to get thorough background checks and fast for discernment before adopting anyone, even a newborn. You never know what ingrained character traits you could be bringing into your home.
If you don’t consistently discipline children at an early age while letting them always have their way then it could literally cost you your life if you are foolish to think you can discipline them when they get older. Especially in today’s world
that's wrong. kids just need to be treated as individuals, not possessions. narcissistic abuse and neglect is what causes this behavior. you know, constant discipline....
@Randy Hanson That's a good point. While I think it's obvious genetics (psychopathy is known to be hereditary--as opposed to sociopathy, which can form based on experiences) and perhaps early childhood trauma were the primary factors at play in this murder, your comment reminded me of Dellen Millard. The junkie millionaire playboy who murdered his own biological father, among others. Yes, even with natural children, discipline and building good character are key. Still, biological children are necessarily far more predictable and Millard seemed to turn ugly due to his drug use and decidedly evil media influences as well as paternal permissiveness.
@@tnntlmmn277 I agree with 100% of everything you say. Neglect is the #1 cause of failure to discipline. To me discipline includes everything from giving praise to teaching simple words such as please and thank you.
@@FloppityFlopFlop777 You read my mind. I was thinking the Menendez brothers. Dellen Millard certainly falls into that category. Imagine a scenario where a neglected 2 year old boy is rescued and adopted by a single middle aged multimillionaire playboy who has never had children of his own. The adopting father has and uses all of his available resources to make sure that his child has the very best of everything from toys to being put into the best schools. These resources also include multiple beautiful girl friends more than half his age to help him raise the young boy. The adopting father means well and he has big plans for his adopted son. What could possibly go wrong?
Hi Dr. G. Hopefully you're having a wonderful evening each & every day. This case was very horrific to me because my experience with adopted people was positive. My boyfriend in alternative school was adopted & we both had wealthy families. I finished in public High School & also attended college as well. Years later I contacted him & he was fine & visited my daughter & me. Also knew one of my Mom's friends who adopted a girl & she also turned out fine. I hope this lady RIP knowing that she'll be fine also. Peace & spectacular times hopefully await you & your family as well, Love, Janine Smiley😀😎🤩😍🤗👗👔👛🍉🍊🍌🍍🍇🍎🥝🍅🥑☕🍩✌👍💅🦓💄📿💎💍👒👑🥧☕
Love the quips again🐐. Young brains are so susceptible to the ravages of drugs, causing violence and/or terrible behaviors. Sad she met that end after trying to help. Thanks Dr G😊💚💚
I think you're very right. Young brains are still developing and very vulnerable in all sorts of ways. In my view we need to increase not reduce early childhood services. I would say sustained post adoption support is essential including things like social worker, therapists, play therapy, opportunities for adoptive parents to get together and talk, family outings, consideration for the children of transition to teens and then adulthood, friendships and relationships. List is endless. I taught a little one who comes to mind. Before being adopted by loving parents she (aged under five) had been sustaining herself by eating food out of rubbish bins. Very difficult behaviour at home and at school but adoptive parents hung on in there. Enormous credit to them Social worker told me the little one had an 'agenda of revenge'. well if you're forced to eat leftovers out of a dirty bin ....
@@mariaorourke5866 Great points. There needs to be checklists, follow up, support for adopted kids. In general, the mass shootings are by males 15-25 it seems too. Most prob have psychiatric issues and/or take street drugs/pot etc. Wow that agenda of revenge thing is scary...Young kids don't know how to handle trauma & anger or have no support, then rage turns outward with disasterous results. Thx for your thoughtful reply 👍
You did a good analyses & make me have a good needed laugh with your snippets of humour. There is common knowledge about a significant proportion of children put up for adoption being likely to be prone to significant problematic behaviours or psychopathological inherited traits including early traumatic experiences. Unfortunately neither agencies or many prospective adoptive parents fail to consider this possibility or having the required disposition & skills to manage these type of children were problems to emerge.Some of the most inept adoptive mothers are middle-class teachers, nurses and case workers who actually have been shielded by their work place structures from fully being tested in child management overestimating their skills in a private domestic situation and pride preventing them to seek timely specialised assistance.
That us such an interesting perspective. I think you’re right that nurses and teachers do over value their ability to manage personal domestic situations. Fascinating. I hadn’t thought about this like that before. @Brigitte L Jones
4:13 has me LOL: "I find it interesting that nobody suspected the goat; maybe the cat owed [the goat] money or something." - The latest Todd Grande zinger, and much-needed to lighten this tragic but enthralling story. Great video, Dr. Grande!
I knew a woman who adopted two kids from Eastern Europe. The older daughter did fine, but the younger son had no impulse control. He would turn the taps on full blast and cause a flood, run out the door and into the street, walk out of the apartment at night, and more. He wasn't violent and usually wasn't destructive, but he would run off all the time.
As an interracial adoptee these type of crimes fascinate me. My half brother and I grew up together he was adopted 3.5 years before me. Our adoptive parents are amazing! Our dad was on the Canadian National parole board for 35+ years and my brother was one of the most prolific meth dealers in our area. It was a colourful adolescent to say the least. My brother and I never missed treated and our parents gave us ever opportunity anyone could imagine. The area we grew up in is very affluent. Some ppl with adoption trauma never get over it. Unfortunately my brother has passed away due to laced meth and unfortunately I wasn’t surprised, heartbroken of course but not surprised. Like I said some adoptees are forever haunted no matter how much support and love they get. Great job as always Doc you always show these type of topics with the quibby but respectful info. Keep being the only sane one here!
So sorry for the loss of your brother
Very sorry about losing your brother.
Very sorry for your loss.
Thanks for making this about you.
@@sup8857 you’re welcome.
Little did Denise know, having the children removed from her care was actually a blessing in disguise. Sad
Exactly. When they took Angel she should have just waved the white flag. That situation was not food for any of them.
@@Violexie-wb7op At that time there was no outward problems with Carlos; they were very close…. Hindsight is 20/20 in this case.
@@canileaveitblank1476 Denise's only family was the adopted kids and them not being around , she was entirely by herself in that isolated spot she chose to built a house onto. this ought to have been one of the many reasons why she probably thought "they are all i have and i could be a failure". it is sad all around and my biggest fear is dealing psychos because i could be brainwashed . lord help us
Yes, it’s quite obvious that it’s sad.
@@canileaveitblank1476 in the uk, she would have had both children removed from her care, once those conditions were discovered. it seems there was no proper safe-guarding investigation undertaken when one ran away. she was obviously not in a position to care for those children.
As a person who was adopted I could never repay back the kindness of my adoptive parents. Yes we have had disagreements but never to the point I would consider taking their life. This cat had anti social behavior tendencies from the start and they became amplified with the drug use. Very sad case. What type of social worker did they have? I remember my social worker even as an adult and he kept tabs on how I was doing in the foster homes before I was adopted. He was my counselor and a good social worker that cared about my well being up until I was adopted. Social workers are suppose to be liaisons between the child and the adoptees.
You sound like a solid mensch pennsydude
@@cht2162 Thanks. Just speaking from personal experience. I was 7 when I got adopted.
I personally do not agree with the narratives in the comments under this video. I find it appalling the way we judge even children to a horrible fate never believing they can grow and change. I am more afraid of the destruction these adults in the comments are doing in the world.
Yeah some people bite the hand that feeds my dog won't even do that this kid was a unappreciated brat give him the chair
Very few people give away something of value, including children
This is another example of just how important it is for young boys and young men to have a father or father figure in their lives. Very tragic.
I had a colleague who adopted two children - and they were way in over their heads. The kids came from a drug addicted parents and it seems they were affected by this, which made them very difficult (and very expensive) to care for.
It's the bitter truth, almond. Someone had to say it 🤕
Yep. And this is a hard truth for some people to swallow.
Why do people adopt kids for attention like pets? Have your own kids
I too am curious about the biology of the boys and what circumstances they came from. I hunch says that was far more troubled than Denise ever knew. R.i.p
You know there was something wrong with her Guatemalan adopted son when you look at his twitter to find out he was a Trump supporter
I love in Honduras and I can say that these children suffer from hunger, physical and sexual abuse, neglect , substance abuse, since the day they are born. It's an awful situation that happens to literally millions of children here. The mothers of these children are lost souls themselves, abuse substances, have no education and no skills to find a job are often abused as well. The fathers are often missing or are extremely abusive. These children are cursed since the day they are born, nobody cares for them, they are unable to develop correctly because they never have enough food or nutritious food. The mother often feeds the child water with sugar and only that. These children have lost everything before they are even born. No matter how much you want to help these children you simply can't. It's an awful situation all around.
Oh my gosh. Those poor children. Those sad people in Central and South America. I wish we had the will to make our world a better place.
@@salishseas Its not about will its about money and its about waking up to what is really going on i the world Change scares everyone Look what happened during Coivd when people had to wear a paper mask!
Again, licensed parenthood should be reinforced to prevent these sad situation from happening.
@@salishseas we do have the will. But Honduras isn't everyone's "world".
@@joincoffee9383 licensed parenthood is a ridiculous idea. Something that sounds good on paper only.
I served on a jury that was trying an 18 year old girl for murder. Her mother testified that she and her husband took turns sleeping for fear she would attack them. They were so poor they had few alternatives to get out of their situation.
The thing I got from the trial is distrust of mental health professionals. Her defense was insanity. Five phyciatrists testified in the trial as to her condition and no 2 diagnosis were the same. We found her guilty because she tried to hide her crime, which indicated she knew the difference between right and wrong.
This girl had all kinds of mental and behavioral problems. She was in and out of mental health facilities. Our mental health infrastructure appeared to me incapable of dealing with her. The mass shooters we have experienced all have mental health issues. We simply do not have the resources to deal with these people.
Jail does nothing for these people.
@@hermitpermit2553 she isn't on the street where she can kill again.
You are right; we do not have the resources to deal with many people with mental health issues. That is because we do not invest in mental health infrastructure.
You are totally correct. The reason we don't is that it is not popular with people. It doesn't get politicians re-elected. Sending arms to Ukraine is popular. Funding research for for the spotted leg leopard frog is popular. Trying to ban guns is popular. The global climate change hoax is popular.
Another problem is if a person is committed to a mental health infrastructure is there due process. If there isn't it will look like our dept of homeland security where parents objecting to their childrens curricula are designated domestic terrorist. It might be accomplished on a state level but our federal govt is too corrupt to make it happen.
Nope. But it keeps them away from people. They should not be able to be on the streets.
I have to admit, I counseled my daughter against adopting.
In the past I had been a fan of adoption but having worked with and interacted with kids and adults who were adopted, I have concerns.
Since it is no longer a stigma to keep your baby if unwed or too young, the children who come into care these days do so for a reason Some of these reasons are very serious and potentially genetic.
I’ve seen kids with long term effects from their mother’s drug and alcohol use.
I’ve seen people suffering with inherited (?) mental and emotional problems and people who continue the biological families issues or who suffer a myriad of mental health issues before committing suicide.
While I feel bad, not to see children in care find stable loving families, I felt the gamble of taking in a child in this age was too much.
My daughter would be a single parent. Raising a child is so hard at any time but especially now.
Raising one with issues by yourself is too big a risk.
I wish I didn’t feel this way, but I do. I’m trying to protect my child.
You are just trying to protect your daughter. I get it.
I was raised Jewish in a horrible foster care home where I was Stalked daily and harrassed. My biological parents were unwed immigrants. My mom is Filipino Chinese and Korean CHICANO Familia heritage's. My biological father is Ethiopian Italian Indian heritage and culture. I located my mom is living in San Diego California area on Facebook page. I'm hopeful that I can have peace and a relationship with my biological parents
@@crenfick7750 most families have some type or types of health or mental issues, somewhere in it’s make up.
But you know what they might be and can be more prepared.
For example, with alcoholism in both sides of mine and my husband’s families, I brought my kids up to be aware and to monitor their drinking. All 3 are either very light drinkers or abstain completely.
Also, I have worked with and seen kids who suffer from the long term effects from fetal alcohol and drug use. I’ve cleared the house after a good friend ( who was adopted) finally succeeded in killing himself. I came to realize, while sorting through things for his mother, how early his mental issues started. It’s was clear how much time and effort they put into helping him.
No one is promised a perfect life but you can try to prevent setting up a bad situation.
I feel today, there are many more problems and issues that can severely affect these kids.
Raising a child as a single parent ( which is what she planned to do) is very difficult. I just thought it was too big of a gamble.
Glad you taught her common sense. Why would she afopt a child as a single parent? That's not even fair to the child.
@@leesteal4458 My daughter, like most woman, is more than capable of creating a good life and raising a child alone if she had to, but why take the risk ?
It’s better not to rely on a partner who may not have the strength of character for the tough fight and has delusions of grandeur.
A partner for the sake of a second pair of hands is worse than useless.
Realistic and careful planning will get you farther. The wrong partner will be a toxic albatross.
As for the child- there are many kids for whom growing up without their father might have been a blessing.
Being there doesn’t mean your present.
My late partner was adopted and he deeply loved and respected his parents. Briefly, after he married a much older woman with 3 kids and 2 nutty exes, he was separated from his parents in communication. They were really upset about the relationship. He was still a teenager. After a few years both they and he couldn't stand the rift anymore so they made up. They all got together again and the family was blended successfully. He remained married to his wife for 43 years, her death, and supported his youngest stepson until he, himself, died. I have never known a nobler man. Just saying: being adopted and having issues with your family is ordinary stuff. Killing them is something else.
Thank you for sharing this story ❤️
Unfortunately, cases like this are the exceptions that prove the rule. Every family I've ever known of, that has adopted (whether babies or older kids) has had massive, abnormal difficulties with the adopted child. I've been closely involved in several different church communities over the course of my life and I've seen this play out in so many different ways. One sad common denominator I've seen is the rosy, fairy tale religious view of adoption that just cannot match the reality.
These poor couples were ultimately fed deceptive propaganda about the realities of adoption, genetics, mental illness, drug problems, and childhood trauma. Two couples I used to know well even divorced in large part because of this, they were in way over their heads and couldn't cope when reality didn't match their fantasies.
Adoption is an immeasurably risky gamble even for couples in the best of circumstances. I only know one woman who was able to adopt on her own, but I can only imagine that it must be far, far harder. She was never really able to bond with her adopted daughter (7), and the girl still has problems to this day, including mental problems, truancy, and dropping out of college. Personally, I think it's a grave mistake for a single woman to try to raise boys on her own at all, with the culture the way it is now. It's a losing battle. If you have fertility problems, honestly the best investment you can make is in finding treatments to help you conceive, not adopting kids with unknowable backgrounds, genetics, and trauma who are likely to turn your world upside down--and in some cases like this one, even harm or kill you or your family. Sad, but true.
@@FloppityFlopFlop777 people need to even listen to the trailer for the primal wound to gather a basic understanding of the trauma adoption does.
That’s why adoptees have so many issues, well one reason, they are very traumatised children from the get go and rarely is their pain ever dealt with or acknowledged.
This isn’t as uncommon as people think.
@F C you can still end up with a child who grows up and screws up even if you’re the birth parents and even if there’s both parents around. No guarantees in life about anything.
I agree. All families and long term relationships have their ups and downs and all human beings have strengths and frailties but we don't go round killing eachother.
When I was a teenager I knew a guy whose parents owned a business he worked for his parents. He was doing drugs at some point and he took an ax and tried to chop their bedroom door down. The parents were terrified. They call the police he went to jail. They called everyone that knew him abs asked not to bail him out. They put the house up for sale. Three weeks later his dad had a heart attack and died. His mother moved and never told him where she lived she was scared to death of her own son. Very sad story. I saw him homeless a few years later. He was a good looking guy when he was younger, but drugs ate him away. Very sad.
Was he adopted??? Was that his biological parents?
You see I have saw a comment on a different CZcams channel.
It is not exactly to point as they had other parts in their comment, the reason why they thought a woman had a few miscarriages was because he believed that she was incapable of loving a child however you get women who take drugs during pregnancy and still get to have a baby at the end of it ok so the baby may have some other problems.
No different to people saying adopted babies are more traumatized than a non adopted child it is another thing to cause division in society.
It does not matter if the child is adopted or not adopted something has gone wrong it does not matter if the parents believed they were doing a wonderful job with bringing their child up something went wrong somewhere.
@@lisabill8877 No, he was their biological child. He did 2 years in the military so he was around 20/21 when this happened.
💔 I feel bad for the father. All that stress and heartbreak brought him to his demise. Can’t say I blame the mother nor do I feel bad for the son. 🤷🏽♀️
Its sad situation that father died from heart attack but his mother was wise woman to sold the house and moved away . I saw many relationship that emotional attachment ended up murder or suicide.
I’m familiar with two families who adopted drug addicted babies at a very young age and had constant heartbreak and difficulty raising these children. The children basically held their families hostage and terrorized them. I taught these children and feel so sorry for those families.
Wonder how many in the future with stricter abortion rules
The thing is the children have trauma from when they're born (and probably even during their mother's pregnancy) unless adoptive parents understand this and get the children appropriate help they will not be able to prevent the difficulties the children will grow up with.
Some children can have brain chemistry that can’t be altered regardless of the help provided. Some can have trauma that can’t be undone.
@@sarcasticallyrearranged so what do we do with them?
@@lindalund9621 I too wonder how many more children will now be born into an unwanted situation.
If any of you are struggling as a single mom, or for any reason, please get help. It’s not easy! If it is easy, you’re probably doing it wrong! My son was such a handful (that’s putting it lightly). We didn’t want to put him on ADD medication. We took him to a neuro-psychologist and he had weekly neurofeedback sessions. I feel like it helped a lot. That, and then going to a private school with small class size. By the time he finished 6th grade, he was totally in control of his emotions and impulses and doing very well in school. He is now a straight A student and basketball player and such a great kid! All I am saying is, don’t give up! Also, nip it in the bud. The earlier, the better.
Congrats to you, mom! Well done. Those situations sometimes don’t end with that much success. Always go to the best neuro specialists. I let the school do very little psych help with our child. They tried insinuating themselves but those answers don’t rest in the school very often. Always get a neuro psych evaluation from a neurologist. Get your own specialist not affiliated with the school system. Out of town and out of county.
The damage done to vulnerable child during a chaotic gestation and traumatic early years cannot be undone by a stable home life from 4 years old.
This is the only relevant comment i've seen.
Thank you. My adoptive parents were also horrifically abusive. So what did the system save me from, exactly?
In the womb is a critical time as well. Also babyhood, they need lots of love, attention and affection!
@@carolbell8008 Absolutely... Those 9 months could be the most critical time of all. Baby is hooked up to mom's blood supply. If mom is full of stress hormones that's what the baby's brain is developing on.
Yes it can
" Denise claimed no one listened to her"
That's family court for you!!!
Literally it’s like what the fuck are you here for
How about this she Has 2 failed marriages abused and screwed up 2 Different children from 2 different countries. She's not the victim. I believe she Reaped what she sowed.
@@rond5379 hideous mysogyny
What do any of these comments have to do with the flaws in the family court system?
Hey there handsome, Dr. Thanks for telling this story. Family members of mine adopted two sons, four and two. They were loving and well-intentioned, but the boys already had a lot of trauma by these ages. They lived a life of crime despite the very different values they were brought up with. A reminder that babies must learn trust immediately. Thanks again, Dr. G. Have a great Sunday.
flirting with the doctor huh.
Just calling it as I see it. 😊
@@annal7364 👍 Dr. Grande is wonderful.
Could just be genetics were they from the same parents?
@@annal7364 lmao
The one time she didn’t lock her bedroom door. Poor woman. These kids were traumatized even at 2-4 years of age.
Doesn't give him the right to kill
@@lookoutforchris the f is a comment like this one on a Dr Grande's video
They might have been traumatized, but that doesn't pass muster with me as an excuse. One or both of them might have had primary psychopathy, which is thought to have a genetic component.
@@KillingTrust It's what American white supremacists sometimes call black people. Just report the comment.
More likely drugs played a role more than being traumatized. Yes trauma effects us; but so do many years of love and care.
Adopted 2 fostered 4 and training helps but nothing truly prepares you for dealing with the Trama & mental health issues some of these kids have. Many parents put locks on their bedroom doors. Getting mental health support is a slow process and takes a fight. Mental health professionals often have never Lived with a person with these issues… so don’t really know from experience.
Considering we found out Carlos was good at hiding his psychiatric issues, could he have secretly traumatized Angel? Angel was so young when he was adopted. Just thinking out loud!
I agree. My distinct impression is that we don't have the full story about Angel's issues.
Oh I'm sure
Honestly, as a fellow teacher it's hard for her to explain away the locked room and bucket. I think Dr. Grande is being a bit too generous with the amount of abuse on the part of the adoptive mother. I do think that perhaps Angel was abused by Carlose and then acted out, making it easy for Carlos to play the good boy and manipulate their mother into thinking Angel was the problem child. He was removed from the home... they don't do that all willy nilly. We dont have the full story, in my opinion.
@@Violexie-wb7op yeah i agree and i think the mother's behaviour was more than a little abusive. Making one clean the bathroom naked? That is humiliation and degradation. And then if Carlos was ASPD he could have been self medicating with drugs, and she tried to control too much.
@@lonelylantern9135 well the claim about the bathroom naked is disputed. But the locked room and pee bucket were found by officials so we know that is a valid concern. The bathroom cleaning we dont know for sure if the mom made him do that. But it could have been Carlos doing that to abuse Angel. If he had ASPD the likelihood is HIGH that he was abusing his afoptive brother.
Sadly, there are many people who will see a case like this and say this is why you should never adopt, even though most adopted children do not murder their adoptive parents.
You're right! Most kids who murder their parents are the parents' biological kids, but people irrationally notice more when it's adopted kids who commit murders.
You don't know what the mother was like or anything about the birth parents' genes. About half of behavior or psychological problems are genetic.
Adopting or birthing is a crap shoot. Truly. 50/50.
This is why you should never adopt.
@@jackiepowell7513absolutely wrong. I know my child's mother, knew everything about her before I chose to have a child with her.
The child is 50% me 50% her.
I know pretty much what I'm in for.
Loyalty, tattooed on his neck while he killed his adoptive mother is pretty ironic and hypocritical
No offense but maybe it's loyalty to something else
This was a tragic ending for Carlo's mother. He had zero remorse for his actions. I think he is a psychopath and narcissist.🤔 Hopefully this person will never leave prison. Intriguing analysis Dr.G. 👩
Agreed.
@@FloppityFlopFlop777 Being adopted can make you both of those
Maybe he’s a psychopath, but she did very bad things to him, that he probably repressed, and she likely deserves what she got.
@@katieandnick4113 how can anyone deserve that. what are you talking about
@@acommentator4452 parents who sexually abuse their children deserve it if their children decide to kill them. Most children of these parents never do this, and they live their entire lives suffering emotionally and psychologically and, very often, physically. Oh, and not all, but very many, children who were sexually abused by their parents go on to sexually abuse their own children. Anyone who believes that parents aren’t sexually abusing their children left and right either aren’t paying attention, or their own brains are damaged from being abused themselves as children. This is what causes people to develop personality disorders, for the most part. Especially cluster B disorders. The exception is what is known as sociopathy, not to be confused with psychopathy. Sociopaths are actually men with untreated/undiagnosed ADHD, whose mothers were not capable of/prepared to deal with the challenges of raising such a gifted/special child.
I’ve worked a lot of jobs. Farm kid, waiter, roofer, bar tender, sailor, printer, bus driver, and my last (or maybe just current) job as an attorney. But the hardest job I ever had was being a parent. I can understand how hard it is to get that one right. I won’t judge her.
I couldn't have said it better myself! And to think.. basically Anyone can have a child. This kid had issues from the get go, and methamphetamine only increased the likelihood of him becoming violent. She didn't know how to handle him...sad case
That's okay, I will. 😒 I feel horrible about what happened to her, she didnt deserve that. She wanted to contribute to the world, share some of her resources, and she wound up with a kid with antisocial personality disorder. Talk about bad luck. However, I do believe she was abusing those kids. Hard to explain away the locked room and bucket, especially from a TEACHER. She resigned from her job because she was probably pressured to resign after the findings of how she was treating her foster child. We can get fired over nudes, you think they'd let a teacher keep their job who was locking children in a room with a bucket? Nah.
@@qdpqbp don't be ignorant
@MmeFangsAlot no you're ridiculous to say otherwise. It takes the same or more time, energy and dedication as a job! A Job can be unpaid. You sound like you don't have any children
@@melistasy right! They probably don't have any kids
"Which is a fitting metaphor when considering the outcome of many marriages"
😂🤣😂🤣 I'm floored
Somehow, to me anyway, taking an ax to a person’s head while they sleep bridges that distance between conduct disorder and antisocial personality disorder. Especially when you consider he took the time to sharpen the ax and afterward disposed of evidence.
I don't like this psychokogical categorization. antisozial personality and etc.... You can simply say, anger or vindictivness or revenge. You don't need any scientific definition.
Should have been put on death row. We have a humane way of putting them down now; no more electric chairs, gas chambers or hanging. Just euthanize them; we don't lock up mad dogs until they die of old age.
@@marielleo4715just seen this. It is most likely he has an antisocial personality (disorder) & he may even be a psychopath - this is most likely the case whether or not you like scientific/psychological definitions - this is not just a simple case of anger or revenge 🙁
@@user-gg3qh4di9s yes,may be
I ADOPTED MY BABY FROM A DRUG ADDICTED MOTHER...
36 YEARS LATER EVERY DAY I STILL COUNT MYSELF BLESSED....
God Bless you and your child 💖
@@nmc1859 Thank You for your kind words...
For personal reasons I won’t disclose you don’t know what the children you invite into your home have experienced. . As an adoptive mom I can’t undo the blueprint the adults have left on their lives. All I could do is show them a different path. Seldom do they embrace it.
My thoughts exactly.
When I was teen (in Germany), we had neighbours who were foster parents. They both had a professional background in social work and received a lot of advice and support, but it was still tough on them. I don't recall how many foster kids they had, I know of half a dozen, but only one of them did not break their hearts. They were usually in their early teens when they came to them after being neglected or abused by their birth parents. Yet when the fosterers provided the kids with reliable boundaries, they idolized their birth parents and demonized the fosterers. The last one even was downright dangerous and the foster parents worried she might harm them or neighbours (she was borderline iirc, but also had some anger issues) so when they had lots of struggles with her they did not continue to foster. Now, for me it was just sad to see the mess these kids apparently came from, the harm that this continued to cause in the kids' lives, and the pain it caused to the fosterers. It got me disillusioned. The thought of helping kids to heal and giving them a loving home is great. But to think of foster and adoptive parents who may not all be as well-equipped as my neighbours to deal with the damage that the birth parents have caused is just scary.
Sounds to me like you're doing the best you can
That's really a bleak outlook. I don't doubt your experiences at all. Just disheartening.
Nah Kathy, you just need to do better. Of course some children won’t be receptive to big changes, and most will be resistant. But the whole point is to work hard to get through ti them and help them give themselves a good life. My friend’s parents adopted 3 girls from 2 different violent, drug-riddled families. They’ve fostered dozens and dozens of children. They’ve been extremely successful with the girls and have been contacted by many old foster children thanking them for helping them becomes good, responsible people.
I wouldn't have even known where to go to get drugs or alcohol when I was 13 years old. How do certain kids find their way to these substances so easily?
You have lived a very sheltered life. These kids have grown up in a very different world and one that is likely immersed in the drug culture.
Well, my parents had a mini bar fully stacked all my life and gave me wine to get me to sleep as a baby. Different experiences!
Florida. Not a great place. Schools are demonized and education is poorly funded. People have no hope and drugs are everywhere.
@@leemcbride717 l find it hard to believe that their mother Ms Halloway was living in a 'drug-culture' environment...??? She was a teacher and looked very prim & proper. So where did it all start? What went wrong?
Other kids.
Its really hard to raise kids harder as a single female and even harder when they arent your biological children because many times you dont know their thinking pattern and fail to recognize things until its too late.
That Denise chic is totally crazy lmao
@@corporalmarcellus9811 you do know she was murdered ? what's funny about that. have some respect. if you've got nothing sensible to say, remain silent. or listen, read, and learn from the grown-ups among us.
@@acommentator4452 Yes, let the “grown-ups” talk. Was Denise a grown up? Two divorces, gave her vows while skydiving, and then she adopted and abused two immigrant children. When you look at the details, Denise is clearly bonkers.
I wonder what kind of male (especially Latinoamerican) role models these boys had,...doesn't seem like they had _any._ Having had the experience of being the object of deferred hatred of my father by my mother and sister after he ran away I can tell you it's pretty hard to deal with - and I was _17_ at the time...not 4yo!
Did you realise Angel had bruises?
It is strange how two adopted sons could simultaneously turn out very badly even under a household that appear very healthy. Such a sad story! Thank you Dr. Grande. It's always a pleasure watching your videos and listening to your analysis!
I've heard so many horror stories about adoptions, both in the news and from people I knew. Very sad and disturbing.
@martin stone I can certainly emphasize. I spent half my childhood with my paternal grandmother. Was a nightmare, not as bad as living with my bio parents.
Remember what they are: horror stories. Just as many, if not more, horrific acts committed by people raised by bio parents.
@@crenfick7750 you're right. I suppose many have had a happy childhood, both with bio parents and adopted parents. So many have idealized childhood as a happy time in life. Me personally I couldn't wait to be on my own.
As an adoptive mother I would like to add one point. I have 2 of my own children, who were relatively easy to bring up, but our adopted child and the things around his family and social services brought an incredible amount of stress to our family, to the point where I became disabled. Everything finally turned out for the better and we're a pretty happy family. But it amazes me how much I love this boy, even more so because of the problems and because we were the only ones who could make it or break it. However, unlike this woman, I had the support of my husband and many others-otherwise I'm sure I couldn't have managed. So, I imagine that she also had a great love for both of these boys, even to the very end-but she needed support from somewhere to manage them.
I saw a goat who stared me in the eye and slowly chewed it’s food. Now I’m thinking our exchange was more sinister than I had previously thought.
🤣🤣🤣
It is, tho. If he was named Black Philip, you're in total trouble. 🐐
hahahaha!
😂
You are so very lucky to be alive...Bless your heart!
Every time there’s a story like this, people speak against adoption. There’s a lot of stigma. But biological kids do the same things.
My relative who was almost beaten to death by her drug-addicted biological son told my cousin to not adopt because the kids would be troublesome. Biology is really strange sometimes.
Drugs make them heartless, deceitful liars, ungrateful, disrespectful. I've been through it. It not all adopted kids do this but all I no its a very very sad ending when u least think it's going to end this way.
I wonder what type of birth parents Carlos and Angel had.
Me, too. It matters, much as some people would like to believe otherwise.
Adoptive children often require additional effort to raise, and not everyone is ready for that.
I have 2 adopted children, 1 from Guatemala. The mental health issues are huge. It will be a lifetime struggle. I knew going in it could be rough. Its worse than I imagined. I feel bad for Denise, and Carlos too. It probably could have been avoided, but it would be hard to believe someone you have done so much for, could be capable of killing you. Tragic.
We have to realise that
1. Some people are beyond help
2. Some people are undeserving of help
3. There's a difference between being helpful and being too dumb for your own good
I would never adopt a child. That may be selfish, but one never knows what their true personality will turn out to be.
🎯
I would never have a biological child. You never know what their true personality will be. Or even worse, he could be retarded and then I'd really be stuck. Selfish perhaps, but that's just me.
I'd be interested to hear more about adoptive relationship dynamics. From what I understand they can be more difficult than media portrayals would have one think
You are absolutely correct - there's an enormous number of dysfunctional adoptive relationships. Many adoptive parents think they will get a perfect child that will meet their needs but they adopt a human being and as carers for the child they haven't got what it takes to be a good parent.
The American system sounds really bad. The fact that some families just do it for money or religious reasons and not just to give unconditional love to someone, is sad.
@@bigsistahtips If you Foster kids you are paid.... if you ADOPT you are not paid.
Meghan: I can attest that in a healthy home the issue of adoption is not on the mind every day. If they are raising the child as their own then it is just a normal family stuff like all families deal with. You can't watch TV till you've done your homework, you can't have desert before we have dinner..... just crappy normal stuff. It not a dagger to be held over the child's head ...to constantly make them feel not part of the family... like : we'll take you back if you don't behave.... it can't work like that.
Why a single mom can adopt childrens!? A dad was missing there maybe... In europe only a married couple may adopt. Such a sad story... RIP!
My son who was almost five when placed with us, and we surrendered parental rights and he is not allowed to know where I live
What happened?
Did you meet him before you adopted him ?
Often kids who come from parents with violent tendencies will inherit those tendencies, not just through experience, but also as a character trait that is hardwired in their DNA. I know a Swiss couple who went to South America and adopted two brothers, 8 and 4, from a very poor, dysfunctional and violent family. They took them to Switzerland, gave them love, a great education, a beautiful home in front of a lake, and ski trips every other weekend. An idyllic life, really. The kids showed a very low IQ and there wasn’t much that could be done about that. As soon as the kids became teenagers, they started committing crimes, like burglarizing houses and shops, something very uncommon in that small Swiss town. By the time they were around 20, they committed one of the most violent murders in the history of Switzerland. No amount of love from the parents could save those young men from themselves. Big heartbreak and headache for the parents and for the entire community, which was changed forever by the violence these foreign kids brought.
Good Lord. That's horrific. It's heartbreaking that well-meaning people have to learn through such extreme cases. It's scary and dangerous the level of denial many people have about this issue.
That's not necessarily fully explained by DNA. They would already have solid imprints at that age.
@@thedarknessunderneathpodca6366: It can both nurture and nature. The violence of the parents may be learned but it can also be an innate tendency that kids inherit.
@@thedarknessunderneathpodca6366 Yes, especially at 8 years old. He was nursed on violence and cruelty. Factor in drugs and abandonment. The world saw what happened with many of the children out of orphanages from the Eastern Block during the 90s. Having no physical touch changes the brain.
@@carrington2949 the primal wound is a wound all adoptees have and is caused by the wound of being given up by your mother.
The adoption would have added extra trauma to those boys, not helped.
Never judge parents who adopt children, then have a change of heart. I was adopted when I was six years old. I did not suffer abuse from my adoptive parents. However I was abused as an infant with my biological mother. Where the abuse came in, was from the other foster children - namely my foster brothers. My parents had no idea as we girls were intimidated into silence. I look back now and thank God that my parents did not adopt those boys. I have known other people who are in the middle of adoptions or just completed adoptions who sadly decided to abandon the process. The reasons were to protect the girls in their household after the girl spoke up about what was going on. It doesn't happen in every family, but it does happen.
Sadly, many adoptive children have experienced trauma in their early years at the hands of their caregivers and adoptive parents need to be prepared for that. These children and families need post adoption support and therapy to address the trauma they have suffered and to help them develop an attachment with their adoptive parents. In some ways it was inevitable this wasn't going to end well with her trying to manage them, with all their needs on her own.
Excellent point. I keep hearing about the attachment issues adopted kids have, even in the best of situations. This means that there needs to be more support and a proactive mindset toward therapy.
Way to make an excuse for the murderer. You're part of the problem.
@@jamesbowman6925 it's called nuance and realism. It doesn't excuse the actions of the murderer. Why would you possibly argue against therapy for adopted families to try to get ahead of these issues before they escalate to murder?
You are correct. The way adoptions are currently handled is a set up for failure.
The very act of being ripped away from your mother, even as a newborn, causes the primal wound. Look it up on CZcams, every single adopted child is traumatised. All of them.
“ The wedding took place while skydiving. She exchanged vows with her husband either right before they jumped out of the plane or as they were plummeting towards the earth, which is a fitting metaphor when considering the outcome of many marriages” 🤣🤣😂 Your sense of humour is the best 💙
"Homicidal goat who skipped town" 🤣🤣🤣
Free Falling Marriage.
I always wonder why people go to other countries to adopt children. Every country - including your own country - has children who need an adoptive family. This probably has nothing at all to do with the violence these two children displayed, but I always wonder about that.
I enjoy the reading comments when I watch a CZcams video. Many of the comments expressed here are personal, heartfelt and eyeopening. And to think, if YT didn't exist, we wouldn't be having this amazing discussion. Regular television could never get to this level of depth as we see in the comments AND the video. The comment section always adds to the interest of the video. I hope the people who run adoption agencies or study them and foster kids, will use this comment section as a resource of information for their research in helping parents and kids in the future.
I went to a small private Christian school with Carlos. It is so eerie seeing the polite and charming football player be capable of something like this. Just shows how well some mental illness can be disguised. Thanks for the through run down. Would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the Jessica Lungsford case that happened also in my hometown years ago.
Omg! So this was after the adoption? Can you tell us more?
Yes, after the adoption. He was a few grades below me but I saw him often as our school was Pre-K-12 th grade. he was friends with good kids and was highly regarded on our schools small football team. If you have any specific questions I can try to answer them, but everyone heard of Denise and the abuse accusations and just as quickly the rumor went around that Angel the younger brother made the story up and police didn’t find any evidence so everyone kind of blew it off. He was so polite (to the point looking back it almost feels rehearsed) and he was very well liked. Maybe he would be considered a little quiet but never anti-social or “strange”. I know everyone says they never imagine someone they know doing something like this, but it did feel very surreal to hear about. Such gruesome crimes of that extent hardly ever happen in our sleepy little town. We have our deal of drug busts and neglect; but not too many axe murders.
@@nicolebell9836 I think Angel was abused and so was Carlos by her. If it was rehearsed he was probably reading from a script he gave her.
Psychopaths
I have known a few folks who adopted, not for the kid's benefit but for their own glory, "Look what a good person I am" and although it didn't turn out this bad ... still a toxic mess. Better go in with your eyes wide open and with a tremendous amount of knowledge .
I think its quite common for people to adopt to show how great they are.
Oh, wow, that's sad. I haven't personally seen self-glorification as a common trait in adoptive parents, but I can see how that would drive narcissistic types. Especially if they're wealthy/infertile. Regardless, I've only ever seen adoption end in toxic messes. The more naive the parents were, the worse it seems to end up.
lol not much " glory" I'm taking in other people's damaged goods.
People would be so surprised to hear how common this is. In adoptee support groups the stories from adoptees with these type of adoptive parents are heartbreaking.
No good deed goes unpunished. People have an idealized vision of doing good. Quite often they're in over their head. Donating to charity or volunteering once in a while is one thing. Actually spending time with troubled people and investing your time and energy full time is another.
I was adopted from South Corea to Switzerland from "good" people wanting so badly to do "good deeds" that they became highly abusive in order to fulfil their "dream"
@@sonodiventataunalbero5576 Whatever your life has been in Switzerland, trust me, it's a thousand time better than growing up an orphan in South Korea.
@@gwang-mu9251 maybe. I still had family back in SK, but they were too poor. My siblings who remained behind made it well, though. My adoptive mother used to call us little shitty Koreans, telling us she regretted adoption. Her brother sexually abused me and she hit me. So, maybe better adopted than orphan in SK. Or maybe not? 🤷♀️
Been there, done that. You try to help, and they (and their parents) only end up resenting you.
@@sonodiventataunalbero5576 So sorry you had to go thru this, poor is not easy but better than what you got.
As an adopted child It sometimes bothers me when people say things like when people make distinctions like adopted mother in any statement except where you need to differentiate between the two. My mom was my mom, my real mom and I was her daughter not adopted daughter. Giving birth is relatively easy when measured against years of sleepless nights and endless worry over the years. What happens after the child is born. That sounds intense but I don’t mean it to be
Parenting is never easy …whether adopted or not …it’s a thankless job for some ..
The news media always picks out something that’s beyond the typical or something that specific about a person, when it has absolutely nothing to do with the event. Like gay couple/former teacher/attorney killed in wreck. It catches people’s attention, which of course is what they want. The thing with the adopted part, specifically, is bothersome because it plays into the horror stories about maladjusted adopted children and the implication they might be defective from birth, when it’s bio kids who cause more issues, comparatively.
@@gabe-po9yi Unless you are stating that biological children cause more issues as a percentage of their group then it would seem likely that biological children would cause more issue in terms of raw numbers.
I love my adopted children. I didn't bring them into the world, but I wanted them for many years. I am not their biological mother, but I am their mother/mommy/mama is every way that counts. Their bio mother was unable to raise them and I not only loved them before they arrived, but I put the time in. I cleaned clothes, messes, told stories, gave hugs and cried with them. We made memories, passed milestones, and we laughed. We have had really hard times. Extensive behavioral issues and psychiatric, academic, social, and emotional struggles. No matter what, they are my children and I love them.
@@imaginempress3408 Good for you. I'm very impressed with your approach.
Everyone should look at the primal wound here on CZcams, watch the trailer first for a quick run down, and it gives you a way better idea of the mental issues he would have had as an adoptee, especially as an interracial/international adoptee.
Will right now. Thxs
Many adopted kids have challenges with connection and identity.
Unfortunately people don't care what happens to children. They don't care what they go through. They just want to be seen as heroes for trying to save them.
You will be seen by a judge in 2044 who is a teenage kid right now playing video games.
Wow
And maybe watches this video
I think it’s strange that a single woman would adopt 2 boys. They needed a father figure.
Feminism win! Don't need no man! You are right though, fathers are vital and cant just be bypassed.
There are more boys within the system . More males are born ( nature ) and abandoned ( nurture). In families where both parents become incarcerated the female children , are usually kept by a family member . Whereas , the males are surrendered to the state. I worked in an inner city , social program . The number of male children thrown into foster care is double that of females . It's heartbreaking .
@@cottoncandisandi6109 This is good insight into the situation. Not ideal for a single woman to adopt boys but you've shown that sometimes there's a necessity.
Mary P , I agree about " single " women fostering or adopting , children . The best situation includes a mother and father . The dream situation would be a 2 parent household with one of the parents , coming from adoption or fostering , themselves . The system is messy .
Well, don't forget that she was married twice and divorced twice. I'm betting she was a piece of work herself.
Adopting children is a lottery. Many have the unfortunate background of having mothers who are drug addicts and they may be born as addicts themselves. They never get a chance.
adopting is a lottery entirely. oh both sides. imagine landing in an abusive household . i've got enough relatives who are good at maintaining perfect social appearance and i've got an aunt whose entire working life is fabricated. its hella uncomfortable frankly. yikes.
@@PHlophe Yes some parents are monsters but here we have the worst combination. Drug addict parents or parents who gave up kids or had them taken away because they were so bad they could not care for the kids and social services had no clue how bad the children would be. Their criminal genes and their ones for tattooing were too powerful for their own good.
@@jamesparlane9289 I was apprehended at birth because my mother was a heroin addict. My adoptive parents were insanely absusive and should have gone to jail for what they did to me. I also became a junkie (6.5 years clean and sober now).
It could be argued that I never had a chance. Yet, I did not take an axe to my mother's head. I wonder a lot about what makes the difference between someone like Carlos and someone that didn't murder their adoptive parents.
@@Ira_Rosenberg I feel very angry when I read about what happened to you. What a hellish start in life, and what a burden to overcome. I know it must affect you in many ways and cause you pain, but as you rightly say , experiencing prolonged injustice as a child didn't stop you knowing right from wrong, or spotting cruelty when you saw it. It probably gave you a heightened aptitude for those things.
It's wonderful too, and a testament to your commitment to your own recovery, that you have all that clean time under your belt. My hat is off to you!
*Having children is a lottery.
I work in inverness and one of the first things people told me about the area was the rampant drug use. I see so many kids come into my my office with parents who are in jail or in the streets doing drugs. Many grandparents or other family members have become their adoptive parents. My heart breaks when I think about the long lasting impact this will have on them
Beautiful area
Carlos was doing drugs, then dealing drugs? He should have been sent to a juvenile facility before it got that bad. Of course, who knows if that would have helped. Trying to raise boys as a single mother is challenging in the best of circumstances. They usually benefit from strong male role models. I know Denise had the best intentions, but this had the worst possible outcome.
100% true
I’m so tired of hearing that kids who are problematic are that way because they didn’t have a man around and not because some people are just criminals and nothing can influence it. Criminals have been around even when both parents were present and as much as some of us would like to think that every problem has an answer, it’s not true,nor realistic.
@@sarcasticallyrearranged It doesn’t matter whether you’re sick of hearing it or not. The data conclusively proves that males without a father in their home suffer in many ways including increased risk of criminality. Your feelings don’t change reality, unfortunately.
@@DarkArtsDeepDive Exactly. Some people act like that statement is just pulled out of thin air, as opposed to being medically proven, peer reviewed data.
Feelings over facts is a current danger to society.
@@sarcasticallyrearranged Good grief, did you read my qualifier “usually” benefit? And the experts do say proper male role models for male children are beneficial especially in their teenage years. And I speak from the experience of raising a son whose father remarried and decided to not be in our son’s life anymore. My son was pretty hard to handle as he got older and pushed me to the brink of insanity many times. So throw your hate somewhere else.
This is what happens when naive people adopt older children who have serious histories of trauma. Do the world a favor and do the proper research before adopting. Save yourself and you’ll save the world.
Unconditional love isn’t enough for kids that have been through extreme trauma, love and kindness will be rewarded with eventual theft and physical violence. Becoming a sociopath, sadly, is often an inevitable outcome.
I personally know adopted kids that developed anti-social personality traits - stealing money from friends and family, one beat up the father as an adult and now has no contact with him.
It’s super sad but I’d never adopt a child unless they were a baby.
😔
Oh yea. The classic case of the unconditional love of locking your kids in a room with a bucket.
@@okarowarrior Look, sometimes you gotta lock em in a room with a bucket. Like when you're sleeping. It's what they do in prison, which was where the boy ended up next. I think Dr. Grande is wrong for assuming she mistreated her kids.
@@jamese8508 I can't say whether or not she mistreated the boys. I do know what it's like to be afraid your child will kill you or your other children while you sleep.
I’ve known of parents who go through hell with their own children. Seems some people are just not right regardless.
The unanswered question is which came first. Did Denise abuse her sons, and that's why they went sideways, or did she start the abuse when she felt there was no other choice?
"PRISON IS NOW THE REAL PARENT HE NEVER HAD."
Even a wild animal placed in captivity (incarceration) isn't the same animal anymore.
@@cht2162--We need more executions to bring those numbers down. My state has a 2-seater gas chamber. 😀 And lower the age limit. It used to be 14 in some states.
As an adult adoptee who was technically kidnapped and wasn’t in the state system. My adopters threatened my birth mother and forced her to sign her rights over. They proceeded to be drug addicts and alcoholics who degraded me and would NOT allow me to talk about my previous traumas. I have been no contact for years ever since my adopters tried taking MY children even though I am a very capable parent and we live a quiet peaceful life… they didn’t like the drama free zone. They’ve got so many folks convinced they are such great folks though 🤢
Your insight and careful analysis was so helpful in sorting this tragedy out. She absolutely did not know who she was dealing and many emotions blinded her judgement. She had a mother’s hope but a psychotic child.
This is why I had always thought that if I were ever to decide to adopt a child, I would have chosen one in their mid-teens..Then it would be easy to tell what kind of person they were, or would become. Also, an older adoption of a kind-hearted teenager would prevent at least one more child from "aging out" of foster care and possibly being abandoned on the street with no safety net.
I kinda thought that too.
True. Because good teens don't turn into problematic adults, genius.
I know a really sweet family that adopted- thank goodness it didn’t turn out this badly, but it did seem to me that DNA is in part something we just can’t get away from- I realize the goats pupils are a bit odd but I think it innocent until proven guilty!!
I adopted four years old boy who lost his mother and grandmother by his biological father . He was two and half years old and present when his father killed his mother and grandmother. This affects him tremendously cause he was sleep walking and wet bed till he was nine years old . Nowadays he is a successful 33 years old business man .
In 2020, he gave me the sweetest birthday card I’ve ever received.
“ To my beautiful mother,
Happy birthday!
Thank you for all the values that you have instilled in me and making me the man that I am . I love you !”
The blood doesn’t make a family but love does.
Sounds like you did a great job.
God Bless you and your son ❤🙏
Sorry- the only kid I would adopt is one that I'd met and spent time with to get to know if s/he is violent or emotionally too damaged. I taught for a bit and 95% of my class I would adopt- there were 4 out of 45 that were never going to be ok.
True. We fostered and i didn't like the idea of adoptong or long term fostering without meeting the child etc. Defeats the point probably tho
Thank you for another great analysis.
I believe Denise needed to reach out for help... I guess that's easy to say after the murder .
I can understand why Denise, as a mother figure to Carlos, carried on trying to help and sort Carlos’s problems... Although, she should never have told Carlos that she wishes that she had not adopted him, that's if she did say that which is doubtful.
If I were a governor of a prison, I would never allow inmates to tattoo themselves while in prison or wear bandanas... All these things are connected to gangs.
Prisons don’t allow inmates to tattoo themselves. People forget inmates are held up on a cell 23/7. All day everyday they figure out ways to outsmart the guards and find ways to sneak contraband in and make weapons and tattoo guns out of the things that available to them because prison is their home while the guards have a life outside of work and have other thing to worry about and want to go home alive injury free not wanting to bring the stresses of work back home to them.
I found out about reactive attachment disorder when I saw child of rage. That would be a great video. Beth Thomas grew up to be a nurse and her adult interviews are interesting
Where can I find her adult interviews?
You find them by looking them up.
@@camerokid78 look for child of rage. It's amazing
@@sdsurfgirl60 I’ve watched it. What I’m asking is for info about the brother as an adult. But I found it on my own.
What hospital does she work at? Asking so i never go there…
Ty for this story and for you opinion. Disturbing to say the least. Whenever I hear about selfless people who adopt I automatically think ohhh how sweet, what a happy story... Nope. I wish she would have found good help for them all and lived. RIP
I think there is a serious ethical issue of adopting children out of their native country and taking them away from their own culture. I don't think it contributed much in this case, but I still think it is a problem that Western adoptive parents don't even bother considering. I also imagine thorough assessment of the children and the prospective parents in poorer countries isn't a top priority, especially if the child shows challenging signs.
Not much culture in an orphanage. Do you enjoy being so judgemental? Maybe watch the dying rooms and keep your unwanted negativity and ignorance to yourself
I agree
Listen, being adopted is better than not being adopted. she was in the right for wanting to help out less fortunate children. However. As an African American kid who moved from a burrough of NYC to a homogeneous white suburb of LI where I grew up, I can tell you that culture shock is real. So apart from the trauma and issues that they CAME TO HER with, they now have the added trauma of being completely divorced from their culture and people. I'd say that it probably did play a role in this case as it would play a role in any situation where this has happened. The specifics of what happened to the kid, and their personality traits of course would influence the magnitude of impact but its definitely still going to have a significant impact on kids.
@@Violexie-wb7op If you are in a violent or dangerous situation it probably is better to be adopted rather than not. That sort of goes without saying.
I just find it rather odd that only white people seem to have this preoccupation with adopting non-white kids who often comes from cultures completely foreign to their own. I don't really know of any examples of non-white parents insisting on adopting white kids or kids of a different race to their own.
Maybe those parents do have a sincere desire to help & I am not arguing interracial adoption should be banned but the cynic in me thinks they probably revel in appearing as a savior to a vulnerable, desperate minority. And that feels kind of disturbing to me.
Thank God someone finally saying it. Seems so easy for all these people. One short random clip on CZcams and you might question your roots and your culture, as an adopted child.
Also, maybe as someone says it's still better to be adopted than not (don't know to what extent I should agree), but then we should keep these events as a high probability occurrence, without complaining.
The crazy thing is that when I look at the guy’s face, to me he looks normal, chilled out, nice, follows the rules, etc…and then realizing he is a murderer….it is completely shocking
To me, he doesn’t look like a person who would hurt somebody! Wow.
Oh, no one ever said it would be easy did they? ... just saying bringing up children is hard work, even when there are two parents and genetically your own.
Good afternoon Dr. Grande.🌵
Anyone who hurts or kills a cat is an asshole. Cats are awesome.
Cats are also arseholes, but they're such cute, adorable arseholes 😺
Anyone that kills a pet should be completely cut out of your life and you should move away to the hills.
@@Direkin Only people are arseholes an it is only people who would think such a thing Another big problem in our society Human kind not kind at all
True
@@picasso7721 The Hills have eyes
She should have let the police take those evil kids away. This is how they repay her? She should have gotten rid of Carlos too. Prob saved him from a horrible life and this is how he behaved? Ugh
I had the same thoughts. Psychopaths are born, not made. I wouldn't be surprised if Carlos harmed Angel somehow, though. Some of these comments defending these boys while saying this poor lady deserved to get murdered with an ax for giving them better lives...it's just chilling. Lets you know what sort of people are behind these sympathy-for-the-devil types of arguments.
@@FloppityFlopFlop777 You are right. I think many psychopaths follow this channel...
@@FloppityFlopFlop777 so much agreed FC. It’s the same people who want a halfway house for pedos but def NOT in THEIR hood. People are so afraid of sanity and the truth. Those boys shit all over her. I treat my adoptive mom like gold. She saved me at 11 years old from Jamaica. I’m mixed and they all abused me there. No one ever tells about the abuse mixed kids get from black ppl but that’s another story lol. This world is going nuts. I’m happy a few normal fair ppl are out there ;)
So the adopted mother seems abusive but idk has any found the son she gave to the state I'd like to hear what he has to say.
Why is no one talking about her being abusive, but all these comments are just talking about how bad adoption is 🙄
Sharpening the knife is pre-meditated killing. Substance abuse, whether it's alcohol or drug, should be irrelevant to the verdict and sentencing.
Axe
Why would a judge exclude Carlos’s mental health issues if he was formally diagnosed?
In the eyes of the law it usually comes down to knowing you have chosen to commit a crime.
Hiding or covering up is an act that shows awareness of guilt.
While there can be mitigating factors that can reduce consequences, it's not absolution in the eyes of the law.
Sometimes the tables are turned. I've recently seen so many incidents of the opposite kind occurring. Be interesting to hear any statistics.
Edit: 2 minutes in, and I am already overwhelmed for this woman. THAT is a lot going on...
" she didn't want her legacy as an adoptive parent tarnished"
Or maybe she loved her child so much and she enabled him...
I think most people want to make a good difference in this world. Adopting child is up there.I sure as she was adopted she wanted to past on this noble act like her parents. All our children is our legacy. LEGACY OF LOVE but everyone is not up to it. They find a way in other ways.
@@eikoqdupree101 yes, ppl are missing that she herself is an adoptee, in the comments. That is actually huge. This isn't a typical case where a non adopted parent adopts some kids and it goes wrong. It's actually quite key and huge that she herself is like them in that she also got adopted. I noticed that right away compared to many other cases that go awry. They're often where the parents themselves were never adopted so they don't know what it's like and they come from a diff perspective on this.
@@catsberry4858 its crazy to me that even adoptive parents are becoming part of this moral credit score keeping if they are " different" and not adoptees themselves. People have gotten out of control
My analysis: Denise was married twice and divorced; as a single woman she really took a risk adopting two boys whose background that she may have known little. Angel and Carlos have probably been through a lot before Denise adopted them, but, then again, you sometimes do not know the mindset of your own biological children. Rules and behaviors for children have to start as soon as child is able to comprehend. You just can't spring it on them, especially during the teen years. Child rearing is the great experiment (as my Mother said). It is something that can make you very joyful or make you realize ---- that it may not be for every one.
I was waiting for the goat to come back at the end of the video 😎
There was definitely a need for a family therapist. This would have been better then reacting against their behavior.
Such a sad story. I think Carlos will be ok just where he is. May Denise rest in peace.
I enjoy the subtle interjections of humour that puts a light spin on the absurdity that’s in the mind of the subject matter. Your videos open up a lot of windows of how unexpected and unexplainable people, or humans can be.
Thank you for the upload on the interesting topic, Dr. Grande!
Very interesting. I wish tou would make a video on the connection between childhood trauma and personality disorders.
Interesting, but I think you left out a very important thing about both Angel and Carlos. I noticed something when working as a Title I aide with with inner city adolescents. Almost invariably, the deeply disturbed boys had no father in the home. Ladies, think twice about taking on the job of raising a boy without a male partner!
Also such boys of course have DNA from the "no father in the home".
Definitely.
I did this with my son. During his teen years there was some trouble. We received counseling and the counselor told me about elder abuse. I should be careful.
Thank goodness for a huge extended family, with good male role models. They helped us out incredibly. Also, we all are believers in a good creator. Though, not many attend church on a regular basis.
Through a series of almost maricles,he decided to enlist in the Navy. In prep for this, he stopped all worrisome behaviors. Also, male members of my family reached out to him.
This is very important for single moms of sons without a father figure. I'm seriously grateful for these gifts.
Especially, for my son growing into a wonderful young man.
It could have easily gone a different way.
We're so lucky.
This is the FIRST thing I thought of too. Need a mother and father in the home!
I think to say that a mother should think twice about taking a boy on her own is a bit of a stretch. There have been many successful relationships with mothers, who raise their sons alone. Additionally, the same could be said about raising a troubled girl on your own, I think if there had been a father in the picture, it would’ve depended on his parenting skills. Was he a pushover that let everyone walk over him or was he a militant type that took zero tolerance toward this behavior having the perfect male around would be nice but I haven’t found him yet.
Anyone considering adoption, even domestic infant adoption should be required to read the Primal Wound by Nancy Verrier.
Absolutely!!
100% adoption trauma is real. I had amazing adoptive parents and life. It has impacted every aspect of my life. Im 50 and still trying to navigate it.
For everyone that says they don't have trauma (which is great) there are likely many more who are afraid to come out and speak up. Because we get called ungrateful, and told how horrible we are. Just because you didn't, doesn't mean that's everyone's story and we need respect people when they say they have trauma from being adopted.
@@Infernukoneska So, I am assuming that adoptive kids shouldn't ever be told they were adopted? Thus no trauma?
@@AnneOhn123 please go look up any primal wound video with Nancy Verrier.
She can explain her research.
no good deed goes unpunished
Not all adopted kids act like this. Some of Your own flesh and blood would kill you an not bat a eye just saying
This comment, while well-intentioned, is deeply problematic and speaks to the fear of abandonment Carlos described that explains his actions. Carlos said that Denise made her love contingent and made sure he knew how much she had spent on him and how grateful he should be. Sure, we should take that with a grain of salt, but it does speak to a broader issue.
Parents CHOOSE to have kids. Parents OWE their children love and kindness. Kids should never feel that their parents' love is based on gratitude, and kids owe parents nothing for having them. You don't get a high-five for spending money on your kids or for tackling the difficult rigors of growing up in today's world. Again, that's your job as a parent. The same principle applies for adoptive parents, which are really just parents. When you CHOOSE to adopt, just like when you CHOOSE to have a child, you choose to assume the responsibility of that. Kids should be made to feel like they have to worship their parents to retain their love or security.
😐 Most people don’t know how real spiritual DNA is. That’s why it’s a good idea to get thorough background checks and fast for discernment before adopting anyone, even a newborn. You never know what ingrained character traits you could be bringing into your home.
If you don’t consistently discipline children at an early age while letting them always have their way then it could literally cost you your life if you are foolish to think you can discipline them when they get older. Especially in today’s world
that's wrong. kids just need to be treated as individuals, not possessions. narcissistic abuse and neglect is what causes this behavior. you know, constant discipline....
@Randy Hanson That's a good point. While I think it's obvious genetics (psychopathy is known to be hereditary--as opposed to sociopathy, which can form based on experiences) and perhaps early childhood trauma were the primary factors at play in this murder, your comment reminded me of Dellen Millard. The junkie millionaire playboy who murdered his own biological father, among others. Yes, even with natural children, discipline and building good character are key. Still, biological children are necessarily far more predictable and Millard seemed to turn ugly due to his drug use and decidedly evil media influences as well as paternal permissiveness.
@@tnntlmmn277 I agree with 100% of everything you say. Neglect is the #1 cause of failure to discipline. To me discipline includes everything from giving praise to teaching simple words such as please and thank you.
@@FloppityFlopFlop777 You read my mind. I was thinking the Menendez brothers. Dellen Millard certainly falls into that category. Imagine a scenario where a neglected 2 year old boy is rescued and adopted by a single middle aged multimillionaire playboy who has never had children of his own. The adopting father has and uses all of his available resources to make sure that his child has the very best of everything from toys to being put into the best schools. These resources also include multiple beautiful girl friends more than half his age to help him raise the young boy. The adopting father means well and he has big plans for his adopted son. What could possibly go wrong?
“ Did anyone even consider the goat?, The cat could have owed him money”? God, I love this man’s sense of humor!
Such a sad story on so many levels. Thanks for sharing, Dr. Grande!
Hi Dr. G. Hopefully you're having a wonderful evening each & every day. This case was very horrific to me because my experience with adopted people was positive. My boyfriend in alternative school was adopted & we both had wealthy families. I finished in public High School & also attended college as well. Years later I contacted him & he was fine & visited my daughter & me. Also knew one of my Mom's friends who adopted a girl & she also turned out fine. I hope this lady RIP knowing that she'll be fine also. Peace & spectacular times hopefully await you & your family as well, Love, Janine Smiley😀😎🤩😍🤗👗👔👛🍉🍊🍌🍍🍇🍎🥝🍅🥑☕🍩✌👍💅🦓💄📿💎💍👒👑🥧☕
Love the quips again🐐. Young brains are so susceptible to the ravages of drugs, causing violence and/or terrible behaviors. Sad she met that end after trying to help. Thanks Dr G😊💚💚
I think you're very right. Young brains are still developing and very vulnerable in all sorts of ways. In my view we need to increase not reduce early childhood services. I would say sustained post adoption support is essential including things like social worker, therapists, play therapy, opportunities for adoptive parents to get together and talk, family outings, consideration for the children of transition to teens and then adulthood, friendships and relationships. List is endless. I taught a little one who comes to mind. Before being adopted by loving parents she (aged under five) had been sustaining herself by eating food out of rubbish bins. Very difficult behaviour at home and at school but adoptive parents hung on in there. Enormous credit to them Social worker told me the little one had an 'agenda of revenge'. well if you're forced to eat leftovers out of a dirty bin ....
@@mariaorourke5866 Great points. There needs to be checklists, follow up, support for adopted kids. In general, the mass shootings are by males 15-25 it seems too. Most prob have psychiatric issues and/or take street drugs/pot etc. Wow that agenda of revenge thing is scary...Young kids don't know how to handle trauma & anger or have no support, then rage turns outward with disasterous results. Thx for your thoughtful reply 👍
@@zenawarrior7442 I think you're right. There's two ways it can go. Turn it inwards and you hurt yourself. Turn it outwards and you hurt others.
@@mariaorourke5866 Wow, excellent point!
You did a good analyses & make me have a good needed laugh with your snippets of humour.
There is common knowledge about a significant proportion of children put up for adoption
being likely to be prone to significant problematic behaviours or psychopathological inherited traits including early traumatic experiences. Unfortunately neither agencies or many prospective adoptive parents fail to consider this possibility or having the required disposition & skills to manage these type of children were problems to emerge.Some of the most inept adoptive mothers are middle-class teachers, nurses and case workers who actually have been shielded by their work place structures from fully being tested in child management overestimating their skills in a private domestic situation and pride preventing them to seek timely specialised assistance.
That us such an interesting perspective. I think you’re right that nurses and teachers do over value their ability to manage personal domestic situations. Fascinating. I hadn’t thought about this like that before. @Brigitte L Jones
Add to that a white saviour complex.
4:13 has me LOL: "I find it interesting that nobody suspected the goat; maybe the cat owed [the goat] money or something." - The latest Todd Grande zinger, and much-needed to lighten this tragic but enthralling story. Great video, Dr. Grande!
I knew a woman who adopted two kids from Eastern Europe. The older daughter did fine, but the younger son had no impulse control. He would turn the taps on full blast and cause a flood, run out the door and into the street, walk out of the apartment at night, and more. He wasn't violent and usually wasn't destructive, but he would run off all the time.