Ultrasonic Transducers - Measurements and Horn Design
Vložit
- čas přidán 14. 05. 2024
- Please read all below -
Back in 2011, I designed and built an ultrasonic transducer+horn assembly and a power oscillator for driving it. My webpage on this proved to be reasonably popular, and I've had many inquiries about the horn design process. I thought it was about time to do a proper video that tries to cover all the common questions.
Links to video chapters:
00:00 Introduction & circuit
01:44 Bare transducer measurement
03:40 Effect of loading
04:31 Horn design & initial testing
09:57 Finished horn, different tipes, nodes & antinodes
19:16 Sinewave vs. squarewave excitation
22:41 Temperature effects
24:41 Conclusion
Here's my original webpage:
imajeenyus.com/electronics/201... - Věda a technologie
0:07 Introduction & Circuit
3:42 Effects of Loading
4:32 Horn Design & Initia Testing
9:56 Finished Horn, Different tips, Nodes & antinodes
19:16 Sinewave vs. Squarewave
22:41 Temperatura Effects
24:41 Conclusion
30:29 The End
Nice
I have 400 modal i whant horn siez please halp me
nice for introduction to measure resonant frequency
Damn 7 years later, I find this absolute gem on youtube. This is treasure, thank you for making this. I make an ultrasonic cake and pizza cutter, using transducers found in cleaners as my thesis project, I dont know if I can get enough power out of them, maybe I use multiple of them and make an optimal horn design before connecting the blade
Thank you, your explanations allowed me to get my ultrasonic welder working again with the customized tip.
It auto tunes automatically and the 2x2mm radius reduction was enough to whack it out of it's operating range.(
That's great to hear! Nothing beats just messing around with things to see if it works ;-) The only thing I'd add is to make sure that there is good contact between the washer and the other parts of the horn - if it's a stamped washer, the faces will likely have a bur, so give them both a sand on a flat surface to improve contact. Otherwise it might dig in and loosen over time. And ideally it should be made from the same material as the horn, but that's probably harder to achieve.
@@imajeenyus42 Should hold and its a quality washer so time will tell, part of an automated machine.
Still a lot of other kinks to iron out before the entire thing is production ready anyway.
But at last it spit out the first signs of life and parts. So progress, yay.
Just hope its predecessor/sibling doesn't kick the bucket in the mean time.
There is some stock left but orders are somewhat unpredictable 🤷♂
Lindsy: This is one of the best video I have ever watched in my entire life. The subject matter is well explained and demonstrated. I had been looking for something like this for years to aid one of my research work. You have done a great job and I must say this video would help many experimenters. This was very informative, educational, and well demonstrated. Thank you again. Please keep up the good sharing. I liked your video.
Used your testing method to find resonant frequency on a new trial setup. Worked great! Good information and well presented!
Hi Lindsay. Great video, clear and concise content. Came across your website many years ago when I too were trying to drill fine holes in ceramic, like you, but for miniature gas burners. Gave up at that time as didn't have access to a lathe. That has now changed 😀 Looks like I need to get a DSO now.
All the hallmarks of an excellent teacher. “Hats off Esquire ! “
Great video lecture! Thank you very much. Perfect to quickly get the feeling of how to approach ultrasonic transducers if you are completely unexperienced.
Very nice!!!! PLL control loop is what you need to auto track the resonance. i had it done... ... working on double PLL method now, there is much power in harmonics also, for cleaning applications mainly. Heat and load conditions change the 28khz nominal on impredecible ways, it is important in industrial scale aplications. regards from Peru.
Excellent video on so many levels. Thanks for doing such a great explanation.
Lindsey fantastic video very clear and explained well, thank you. I would like to build my own transducer and ultimately make a ultrasonic cleaner. Now I need to find how to attach a transducer and how to tune it using a stainless container and water as my horn.
I subscribed hope to catch more of your videos. You're a good teacher.
Winter Garden, Florida
Excellent video. Very interesting and wonderful presentation. This is a very good demonstration of the principles for new designers of the horns.
Excellent video. Very informative. Thanks, Lindsay!
Really well explained. Very didactic, visual and easy. Thank you.
You have done very great job. Absolutely brilliant.
thank you, you made me save thousands of €!! this video is made very well and you explain all the details very clearly
Thanks for the video.
It was well done and the descriptions as well as the demonstrations are valuable. Before watching this, I questioned the need to mechanically tune the transducer/horn system rather than simply designing the driver to operate at whatever frequency an arbitrarily sized system requires. This had been mentioned elsewhere in your comments. However, you were able to add the mass of a horn and with careful tuning, match the bare transducer's resonance frequency at the first fundamental. Your 13kHz starting point demonstrates that you are not tuning to a harmonic. We will be constructing an ultrasonic cutter and your work will make this much easier.
Thanks again.
I wonder if it might be useful to consider changes in material in terms of resonance at the working end of the horn ie going from aluminum to brass.
@Tech Ingredients - Are you still planning to build an ultrasonic cutter? I'm eager to watch your video on the matter.
Why is that I find often comments from either Dustin or you under underrated vids I watch.
Are our tastes in video consumption really that similar?
Nice explanations, methods and knowledges. Thanks for sharing. Congratulations and regards from Brazil.
You can divide by 1 for as long as you like, do it again and again and again if that's what you want. ;)
Excellent video... Keep up The Great Work.
This was exactly what I was looking for. Wanting to build my own ultrasonic homogenizer.👍
You have made my life so so soo much easier now. Thanks!
Outstanding! Very well done!
Thanks for sharing. All knowledge of ultrasonic horn I was needing I found in your channel. You won a subscrite.
Great video, finally can understand it well, thank you !
Thank you. I was asked by a friend for help in diagnosing an ultrasonic stack but the trouble was that I have never worked with anything similar, so I've been looking for knowledge in the net. Today Google recommended me your film and now at last things look clear. Very well explained - the best material on that topic I was able to find.
Great video, thanks!
When the added mass changes the resonance frequency, does it also affect the transducer displacement (and therefore the produced sound power)?
Otherwise it sounds like I can just get any frequency of vibration from a Langevin transducer by attaching long enough probes, regardless what its original resonance frequency is.
Fantastic video. I have been playing around with an ultrasonic converter at home and the original probe end was cracked. I got titanium and made a new one, but was having a big problem getting the right frequency (I barely made a change on the narrow end and blew past my target). This is exactly what I was needing.
Thank you, that's great to hear! They are really sensitive to adjustments, glad you got it sorted out.
Very interesting presentation. I will back to this topic later, since currently messing with my first 3D printer. :D Thanks.
thanks for sharing all this nice work. That's really a Good Lesson on CZcams.
Best video about Ultrasonic Design in CZcams
amazing brother . precise n concise
Excellent 👍 thanks you make it straight forward.
Here from thought emporium and this old tony ultrasonic adventures. Good stuff.
Thanks! I didn't know about thought emporium's video, will give that a watch now ;-)
Excellent video! You’re a master at instruction. Have you’ve done a video on modifying resonant frequency of commercially available driver boards? Thanks. Doug
Thank for your instruction, it's very meaningful
nice video. You play with the shapes , good to see what happens if we play with the heat
Thank you so much.
Perfect lesson.
Overall great channel and a great video on ultrasonic tool design. taught much more than anything i've looked up in the past week. This video explains the basics of horn design and sonotrode over an existing transducer, but i wonder how to make a transducer from a bare piezo crystal. Is the process same for tuning the back and front pieces in a transducer? I guess the resonant frequency of a bare crystal would be much higher since it's very short, it gets me confused. Do you have any idea on that?
Hi great video I was thinking about modifying a cheap ultrasonic cleaner to have a sweeping frequency. My question is does an ultrasonic transducer have more than one harmonic that they switch between or do they just alter the frequency and loose some amplitude as a result. Thanks in advance.
Thank you! Really useful information!
Nicely done. Thank you!
This was well done. At the end, where you warm up the extension by torch, I think the change in your resonant frequency is an interesting phenomenon that is not easily explained. Temperature change can affect both density and bulk elastic modulus. Either can affect the speed of sound and thus affect your resonance frequency. There could also be some influence of thermal expansion and thus your geometrical constraints change. Being that this is material property dependent, the functional parameters must be well understood and does not apply neatly across all solids the same.
Thanks! You're absolutely right - there will be multiple interconnected effects and trying to predict what actually happens to the resonant frequency (increase or decrease) is probably very difficult. I'm not a theory person so don't really know much about it ;-) I wonder if horn designers actually take temperature into account when designing a horn - e.g. a high-power horn under continuous operation might run at an elevated temperature, so you might want to design its profile so it's at the correct resonant frequency at that temperature, not sure. There's actually a vaguely similar thing with laser diodes - since the wavelength increases slightly with temperature, if you're trying to match the wavelength to say a narrow absorption line (e.g. pumping a NdYAG crystal), you need to specify what temperature the diode will operate at when buying it from the manufacturer.
Good tutorial about transducer.
Thanks lot~!
very instructive! Well made video!
I literally feel ten times smarter after watching this. I'm going to check out your other videos to see if you have cut things with it. You give me ideas about how to create resonant waves in magnets to make them stronger. Very awesome. I have an unfinished video about how I believe magnets and gravity and stuff works. I should have sound added in three days. Anyway, wow, so awesome. I know your work seems non-consequential to many people who are not into this sort of thing, but actually you've opened the door to advanced resonant matching in materials that can go beyond ultrasonic. Even in the ultrasonic, I was watching your video and wondered if you could recreate the sonoluminescence effect of when soundwaves collapse water bubbles to create temperatures four times hotter than the sun, for microseconds! What if instead of collapsing water bubbles, you used it to collapse the side of a magnetic field that is nearly spherical? Anyway, great video.
Glad you like it! Single-bubble sonoluminescence has been recreated by quite a few people, usually in a spherical glass flask with two opposing piezoceramic discs attached diametrically opposite each other. I think there was a Scientific American article a while back about this. I actually observed it myself once (the important word is ONCE!), but it is very hard to get the right water conditions (correct amount of dissolved gas). Don't know how vibrating magnets will affect things but it sounds an interesting idea.
Wonderful video! I am looking to use ultrasonic transducers in an art project. Can I use any ultrasonic transducer to pump any ultrasonic frequency? Basically I'm looking to amplify any frequency all the way up to 500 kHz. How would I be able to do this? Thank you!
WHAT A GREAT VIDEO!! I love your explanations. Thank you so much for taking the time to share what you've learned. I feel like you've given enough information for me to run with my project! Great Job!
Phil Dupuis Thank you! I'm really happy you found it helpful!
Hey Lindsay, do you know what direction the horn is actually vibrating in? If the center of the horn has less vibration, it would lead me to believe it's vibrating either A.) side to side or B.) up and down but NOT C.) in and out. Do you have any thoughts on this?
Great question, and it's one that confuses a lot of people, me included! The short answer: go here and look at the first animated image on the right: www.sonoanalyzer.com/content/ultrasonic-horn-design-using-sonoanalyzer-basic-guide. The longer answer: both ends of the horn vibrate purely axially. The middle of the horn, although it doesn't vibrate axially, DOES vibrate radially - it "breathes" in and out. Not by much, if you look at the relative amplitudes on that simulation, but it definitely does. This caught me out when I first designed my horn - I thought that it didn't vibrate at all in the middle (no radial, no axial) so I clamped the middle rigidly to mount it, and found that it didn't vibrate. Because it does vibrate radially, there needs to be some degree of elastic "give" in the mount to accommodate this - the usual trick is to have a ridge on the horn that's sandwiched between two rubber O-rings.
Wow, the motion of the horn was unexpected!! So it does breath in and out. That actually works best for my project! Thank you for that link and your great help. I very much appreciate your responses and kindness.
Hello Lindsay, when you setup your transducer for any operation, what equipment do you use to power your transducer? Do you use an ultrasonic generator?
Excellent tuning 101 video.
Excellent video man
Fantastic video. Thank you!
Excellent video, it ´s all interesting.
Very informative video, thanks
Excellent video.It's make clear understand.
Hi, Thank you very much for your videos. they are help me a lot with my studies. I have watch lots of your videos but I still have a doubts about transducer for cleaning, How much voltage can I put on a transducer? Does has a way to calculate a better voltage and current to operating a transducer?
thank you very much and please don't ever stop making your videos they are really goods and important. Thank you.
Hi Mr. Lindsay, great video! . Im trying to design an ultrasonic horn in COMSOL for a 40 kHz transducer to generate acoustic cavitation, but i´m having issues with the correct geometry. Could you share the dimensions of your 28 kHz horn to understand better the effects of geometry? Greetings
Great job Lindsay, thanks for the information you gave in the video, they were tremendously useful for me. Could you please explain how much the tightening torque is important in achieving the best results and how can I find the optimum torque? moreover is it better to use epoxy adhesive between the horn and the transducer?
Thanks, glad you found it useful! If you're referring to the bolt that holds the two halves of the transducer together, this should NEVER be touched, since the tension in the transducer determines the resonant frequency. However, if you mean just how tight the horn should be attached to the transducer, then it isn't really too critical. I just tightened with a couple of spanners and it worked fine. They actually tend to tighten through vibration so can be harder to remove. There's no need to use epoxy - obviously you'd never get the horn off again!
Thanks, Lindsay, one more thing, in the case of adding a booster to increase the vibration amplitude can one make a part which can be used instead of both booster and the horn!? or it is necessary for the booster and horn to be two separate parts!? in other words why they make the booster and horn as two separate parts instead of combine them as one part?
You probably could make something that was a combined booster+horn, but I think the main reason they make them in separate parts is convenience - with a separate booster, you can easily use different horn types, rather than having to re-make the entire thing for each one.
Great video. Love it.
really interesting video sir. Is the current you are measuring is the same as the echo coming out from the transducer? because i can't still figure out about how to measure a reflected echo coming out from a single ultrasonic transducer.
Thanks! No, the current is simply the drive current passing through the transducer - it is being continuously excited. I'm not sure how you'd measure the echo - usually things like rangefinders have some sort of blanking or filter to prevent the drive pulse from being coupled directly to the receiver circuit.
Great video! I'm working on an acoustic levitator for my physics undergraduate thesis, as I intend to study deformations of water droplets in an acoustic field, and I'm so grateful I found your page. It happens to be, that I have the exact same 28kHz transducer and now I need to make a horn for it. I was wondering whether I could get ahold of the dimensions of the "step-down" horn you made, plus the disc tip you use to "correct" the resonant frequency? Thank you very much!
Hi, glad you like it! I've got a drawing of the horn and the flat tip here:
imajeenyus.com/temp/horn.pdf
imajeenyus.com/temp/flat_tip.pdf
(Best save them, I clean out the temporary folder from time to time...)
Both made from aluminium. I have to point out again that you MIGHT get lucky with the resonant frequency if you machine a horn to those exact dimensions, but there's always the chance it'll be slightly off (different alloy, temperature, whatnot), so it's best to do it a little bit longer and shorten it to tune. I really should sometime get a chunk of a specific alloy and make a horn from it, so I have something repeatable to go on! Hope that helps.
Thank you for your answer. You sure saved me a lot of work :)
Thanks for your comment.. I've been wondering why the algorithm wants me to know about ultrasonic transducers so much...
This confirms its all spawned from an acoustic levitation vid I watched recently
Why do you need a horn ? This is very fascinating can you suggest any book to read up on this subject ?
Thanks for the video.
great video! i wish i was half the engineer you are
Hey Lindsay. I'd like to congratulate you for the fantastic content you've made. That's some priceless informations about an important subject. I'm building a horn to make extractions into alcohol. Do you think it's better to have one node inside the extraction cup or more?
Hi, glad you liked the video! To be completely honest, I'm really not sure what would be best for that. I think I just about understand the operation of the horns themselves, but I don't know much about actual applications unfortunately. I would imagine that it would be sufficient for the end of the horn to be immersed in the extraction mixture, since it's at the end where most activity takes place. Hope that helps.
Good night Lindsay, I'll develop a research at Uruguay in this area. I'll keep you up to date as the study evolves. Thanks for your attention, have a nice day.
Genious man! Thanks!
Great video! Do I always have to calibrate the assembly (transducer + horn) to the transducers' resonance frequency or can I use the frequency of the whole assembly as the input? For example, I have a 40Khz transducer, and the assembly resonates at 35Khz, can I input 35Khz and operate the machine with this frequency or do I have to use the 40Khz and calibrate the horn for well function?
Thanks! To be honest, I'm not entirely sure, but my feeling is that you should optimise the horn so that the entire system operates at the same frequency as the bare transducer. The transducer has presumably been optimised to operate at 40kHz - at that frequency, the piezo elements will experience a longitudinal node, so they are only vibrating radially, which is where they are happy. At any other frequency, they would experience other sorts of vibrations, which might damage them. So better be on the safe side and get everything working at 40kHz!
This is an incredibly helpful and very well put together video. Following this method, do you have any idea what accuracy I would be able to tune a horn to? I am told I would need to get it within 50 hz to avoid damaging an ultrasonic generator. Is there a paper or any other kind of literature showing the use of a function generator and oscilloscope in a similar set-up for measuring horns?
I might be wrong, but I'd question whoever told you that ;-) Most generators will automatically tune themselves to the resonant frequency of whatever load is connected - I've never heard of one requiring a very precisely tuned load. Yes, you want to get the horn resonance as close as possible to the transducer, but after that, it's up to the generator to then drive it at that resonance.
Great video! What are you using the ultrasonic drill for? You should do more videos about working with glass
Hi - glad you like it! I originally wanted the drill to make holes in ceramic discs for supporting discharge-tube electrodes, but I've kinda got away from that stuff now. I've got a page on the drilling here - imajeenyus.com/workshop/20110516_ultrasonic_drilling/index.shtml. Yeah, I've got a couple videos in the pipeline about laser-cutting of glass tube, should be interesting!
Love the video. Can you operate this transducer in a translational mode with a high voltage input to use it as an actuator? Or are there not enough Piezo donuts to be practical?
Thanks! I don't think so - if I have my figures right, a 5mm thick piezo disc made from PZT will change in thickness by only about 60 nanometers with 200V applied. Things are obviously different at resonance, where the amplitude is far greater - I measured about 20 microns peak-to-peak. Piezo actuators generally have many stacked elements, or additional mechanical amplification with a flexure.
Very interesting video, but I'm not sure there is anything sacred about the resonance point of the bare Langevin transducer. I would think that what you are really interested in is maximizing either mechanical power output, or mechanical power output divided by electrical power input (maximum efficiency) in the final configuration, at whatever the resulting resonant frequency is.
Another thing you can consider doing is using an impedance measurement device to measure the impedance of the transducer around the resonance point. In this case you will see the impedance of the transducer go from close to -90 degrees at low frequencies (pure capacitance), up to zero degrees at resonance, to above zero degrees above resonance, then back down to zero degrees at the anti-resonance frequency, then back toward -90 degrees until the next resonance is approached. Of course this is what you are showing on the oscilloscope, but it's nice to have it quickly generated as a graph. The real part of the impedance which represents the load's power dissipation can also be graphed. The Analog Devices AD5933 development board can be used to perform this testing and can be purchased fairly inexpensively...
So cool. Definitely gonna look for a place that can lathe steel
nice video it was.. i want to know the correct material grade for booster, can u pl suggest any grade
Very nice Excellent perfect Video! This is life success, congratulation ...................
Great Video. Have you tried designing a roller type horn? Any video / ref will be a great help
Hello sir. Do you have any video on how to check a good or defective transducer? Thanks.
Hi Lindsay, awesome video. The whole topic is somewhat complex in its own way but fascinating. Two little question: 1. What is the white cable parallel to the transducer (a capacitor?)? 2. The maximum current draw and phase equality is not at the same frequency but it should be, right?
Thanks! Well spotted ;-) It's actually a small high-value resistor (100k I think from memory) whose sole purpose is to keep the transducer discharged when not in use. Otherwise, what can happen is the transducer expands or contracts due to temperature changes, generates a large static charge on the piezo elements, and give you nasty surprise when you go to pick it up ;-) It doesn't affect the performance any. As for current & phase, yeah, unfortunately it's not a perfect world and the two situations indeed don't occur at exactly the same frequency. I _think_ as the system is loaded more, and the resonance broadens, the difference gets larger. In practice, you would probably choose to operate at the point where the current is in phase, to keep whatever inverter is driving it happiest, and put up with the slightly less efficient current draw.
Very interesting video👍 Couldn't you speed up the tuning/reduce iterations by using your initial measured length and resonant frequency to calculate the actual speed of sound in your material, then recalculate the required length (rather than shaving off a mm or two and remeasuring resonance repeatedly)?
You could certainly do that, it would make things a lot quicker. I shortened it progressively mainly because I wanted to see how the frequency changed, and I was worried about going too short!
Dear
Lindsay Wilson
I have found it interesting. I supposed to design a 3.3 kW generator for supplying the ultrasonic system and I required the equivalent electrical parameter of the transducer like its capacitance and inductance. How can I deal with it? Would you help me?
Regards
Thank you .if you having any kind of ultrasonic cleaner circuit
Great stuff, thanks for sharing. I wonder what the resonant frequency of the piezoelectric ceramic pieces alone is? Your 'bare' transducer has about 40-50mm (?) of aluminimum already attached to it. I would expect resonant freq a bit higher, the Q to be very high, and the resonant peak very narrow band. But not completely sure why I'd expect that. What does the mass on the back do to frequency? Have you tried heavier/lighter mass?
Thanks for commenting. The bare piezo disc also has the same resonant frequency. For example, here's a couple of discs which would be used in a 44kHz transducer:
www.steminc.com/PZT/en/piezo-ceramic-ring-38x127x63mm-44-khz
It's important to remember that , although the ends of the overall transducer move axially, the middle, where the piezo disc is, moves radially ("breathes"), so it's the radial resonance of the piezo disc that's important, not the thickness resonance (which will indeed be much higher).
As for the back mass, it's basically something for the piezo to push against. I don't know all the ins and outs, but there's a (very length!) description of transducers here which is worth a look:
www.ultrasonic-resonators.org/design/transducers/transducer_design.html
The material of the masses, as well as the tension on the bolt, all have an effect on frequency and efficiency. As for trying different masses, that is not something which a user would typically be concerned about. The masses and bolt tension will all have been chosen to optimise the transducer, and changing anything will likely be detrimental.
Hello Lindsay...1) What if the tool is directly connected to the bare transducer? Then there will be need of horn?
2) How to calculate how much amplitude will be there if bare transducer works at 25 kHz?
You probably could connect the tool directly to the transducer, but the vibration amplitude will be less (the horn increases the amplitude). Besides, it then gets very awkward to actually use, because the tool is so close to the (wide) transducer face. As for amplitude, I'm afraid I have to idea how to calculate it - depends a lot on the loading, efficiency of resonance etc. Very, very roughly, amplitudes are in the tens of micrometers for these sort of devices. Check out my other video where I measure the peak-to-peak displacement amplitude: czcams.com/video/OIQ3TY1wkXI/video.html
Lindsay, thank you so much for making this video! This is so much easier than the method from imajeenyus. I have a question though. I was looking at components to make my own transducer, and I guess the rings themselves have a specific frequency. Can you speak briefly about the importance of that, and could you explain what a PZT maker means when they specify 'Radial Frequency' and 'Thickness Frequency'? Which is more important for a Langevin style device? Thanks again!
Thanks, glad you liked it! Regarding making your own transducer, it's probably not something I'd recommend, given (probably) critical dimensions, plus the availability of cheap transducers, but it should be possible. I'll send to a direct message with links to two papers which describe the construction of bolt-clamped Langevin transducers, they might explain things a bit better.
A PZT ring will have a thickness resonance, where the thickness increases and decreases. This is generally quite high, and isn't of interest in a Langevin transducer. They also have a radial resonance, where the ring "breathes" in and out - this is the one we want. It's a little counterintuitive - although the ends of a Langevin transducer vibrate axially, the MIDDLE vibrates radially, which is why you want to excite the radial mode of the PZT ring.
Unfortunately, since PZT ceramic is very weak in tension, the entire transducer has to be pre-stressed using the bolt down the center, and the amount of tension applied will vary the resonant frequency (quite a bit). The papers show the effect of different bolt tensions. Most of the mass dimensions, preload tensions etc. are calculated through finite-element simulations - because it's such a complex vibrating system, it's impossible to do from simple equations!
Actually, I can't direct message you for some reason. Could you drop me an email at lindsay@imajeenyus.com and I'll send the papers to you?
Thanks for the video Lindsay. Have you every experienced that the resonant fequancy is relating to the input power? With my transducer, the higher the power the lower the resonant frequency
I have seen that as well - probably because these things aren't exactly nice linear systems and funny things will happen at higher power levels.
Hello Lindsay thank you for your time and this value information , kindly want to ask you if the power generator for cleaner is diferent for welding, thank you again.
Hi, thanks. From what I understand, welders drive the transducer at its parallel resonant frequency, whereas cleaners drive then at the series resonant frequency. However, I'm afraid I don't understand exactly why!
thank you. Very nice presentation. I liked your video and experiment.
Thank you. I have some questions but about ultrasonic cleaning. I would like to build my own cleaner but i cant get information. I would like to install transducers not just on the bottom of the tank but on the walls. I saw that there are commercial devices which has transducers on the opposing walls off the cleaning tank. I am just wondering if the opposing transducers can cancel each other? Should there be lets say a dimmer/controller which controls the output of the transducers rather than having them all on full power all the time.
And lastly would mixing different frequency transducers increase cleaning efficency?
Opposing transducers may have detrimental effects, I don't know. In commercial cleaners, it may be that they have designed the distance between them so as to _not_ cause destructive interference. Far more common is to just have transducers on the bottom, as it makes the cleaner much less bulky. I have no idea about reducing power of some of the transducers - certainly, attempting to use a dimmer to reduce power to a typical cheap ultrasonic driver board would _not_ work, as these boards rely on operating at full mains voltage to get oscillations. Operating at a reduced voltage will likely damage the driver. You do get dual-frequency cleaners, typically operating at both 28kHz and 40kHz which apparently have more effective cleaning. However, you must question why you have to build an ultrasonic cleaner when they are so widely and cheaply available.
@@imajeenyus42 Unfortunately they are not that cheap and i am not looking at the ones with known brands at all. 30L aliexpress cleaners are like 380€. While you can buy transducers/drivers and build yourself a custom tank. Dimming was the wrong word choice. I was just wondering if the controller turn the transducers on an off in a specific pattern or just simply turning one bank of transducers on while the other bank is off.. I jwill just order some transducers and experiment. Just wanted to ask if you already have experience about this topic.
Great video. What value probe are you using 1x, 10, 100x, 1000x?
Thanks. Just 1x, the voltages are pretty low.
Thanks for the video. May I ask something; which frequency and features are required for the transducer to measure the concrete or wall thickness?
Sorry, I've no experience with this.
Another question, if I might. Can you use the measured resonant frequency of a TXR + Horn or the difference between the two resonances to calculate the speed of sound thru this particular piece? You were using 5800m/s, but as you noted, that 'published number' is all over the charts. So you can't make perfect predictions about length prior to having the object you're going to attach (like your piece from the waste bin).
But after you've measured the new resonance and found this frequency, can you somehow do the calculation backwards? I mean, you take the piece and then go turn it down 'a couple of millimeters'. Could you have taken a precise measure of the horn's length and the TXD length and figured out a precise number to shorten the horn by?
Unfortunately not ;-) You might get an approximation, but again nothing accurate. The transducer + horn assembly doesn't vibrate exactly as a simple half-wavelength system, there are little variations, breathing modes etc. However, you could make a rough guess - e.g. if taking 1mm off raises the frequency by 1kHz, and you need to raise it by 5kHz, then PROBABLY taking off 5mm would do the trick. It'll likely be a linear response over small adjustments. But I'd still sneak up on the final value ;-)
[Having said that, I did take a big chuck off my original horn by mistake (screwed up calculation), but luckily it ended up pretty much exactly where I needed it!]
@@imajeenyus42hello mate 6 years late is OK too talk
@@jshaw4757 What did you need to know?
@@imajeenyus42 Hello mate..I was just wondering are these the piezoelectric transducers and can they be used too generate power ..I'm very interested in batterys n energy n wish too make a system myself and I just wondered if these things could play a part in such a system as I plan too combine things too try n come up with something...but yh or just short info on them in lamens terms I prefer talking too people than just using Google..thanks alot
nice sir, its amazing..
Thanks for your efforts for making this Video and other things you are done before, but I have a question. I am trying to design kind of potable or small Ultrasonic transducer for an ultrasonic cleaning, as a beginner in this field, why should we need a resonant frequency state? I am looking forward to getting your answer and thanks in advance.
Thanks for the comment - I'm not quite sure what you're asking though. The reason for using mechanical resonance is because it greatly increases the vibration amplitude available. Yes, you will get some vibration when driving the transducer at other frequencies, but the amplitude will be tiny.
AH~ I see. I only thought the effect of a resonance when it comes to structure like bridge or something, which can occur a fracture suddenly on that. haha. Okay I got it. Thanks~^^ By the way, Quick question one more, Can I design more smaller transducer? Along this Video, bare transducer seems to be needed for designing an Ultrasonic transducer.
Thanks in advance, I visited your website and I admire your work haha. but I maybe need some time to understand many stuff on your work.
The size of the transducer is determined largely by the resonant frequency, since half a wavelength needs to exactly fit in the length of the transducer. Only way to use a smaller one is to go to a higher resonant frequency - 40kHz is another common frequency, but there are many others available. For some ideas, have a look at www.ultrasonicsworld.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6_7
Thanks ^^ When I have more question, Can I ask you something about this topic?
Hello Lindsay. Great video.
I'm a bit confused regarding the harmonics. When you find the third harmonic you divide the frequency by 3, shouldn't you multiply?
Thanks! The resonant frequency of the transducer is being excited by the 3rd harmonic of the driving squarewave, so the _fundamental_ frequency of the squarewave is a third the resonant frequency. Hope that makes sense!
@@imajeenyus42 That helps a lot, thank you. But how do you know, you have the third harmonic? Just by looking at the oscilloscope?
@@ahmadrinno Well, I know what frequency the function generator is putting out, and I know what the resonant frequency of the transducer is, so it's quite easy.
@@imajeenyus42 that's a good point, thank you!
Again, great video, very informative!
Hi! Would you mind give me some journel for reference from this video? Thank you 😊
Out of the blue, i have a question. oscilloscope can adjust the frequency of ultrasonic transducers of ultrasonic generator BD?
Mr.Lindsay
Very very useful video... thanks.. I want this transducer pls give the adress or any video for home made transducer..
Hello Lindsay. Very interesting. How about when using the transducer attached directly to a Cup of stainless steel to use the ultrassonic waves to clean? Do i need some specific size for the container for best performance or there is no need because it is a direct sonication?
As long as the transducer is well-coupled to the cup/tank (e.g. by gluing the entire face of the transducer), there shouldn't be any issue. The water in the tank presents a large load to the transducer, which broadens its resonance significantly, so the exact driving frequency isn't quite as critical.
@@imajeenyus42 yes the transducer Is fully glued with JBWeld under the container. Thanks a lot for your answer.
First of all thank you very much. We need to use 3d software to make more complex horns. What would you recommend on this?
I'm sorry, I can't help.
Is it possible to attach a wheel (instead of the normal horn)to produce a welded line with 1 cm thickness?
Perfect. Thanks
Dear Lindsay Wilson. Would you please enlighting my very silly question. I have an 600 watt generator connecting to 4 x 100 watt transducer. I increasing the ouput watt so the noise coming out from transducer getting louder. But if i keep increase watt to the point which make the sound suddenly getting quite. I am very sorry for troubling your time, i try to search on google but there no answer or i must miss read somewhere. Many thanks to you.
5800m/s is illustrated in one of the links as the speed of sound through steel.