How To Harm Your Audience - Wonder Woman 1984
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
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Wonder Woman 1984 is the worst superhero movie ever made. In this video essay, I explain why...
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0:00 - Cold Open
5:20 - Intro
7:44 - Part 1 - Dreadful Dialogue
19:47 - Part 2 - A Toxic Moral
34:39 - Part 3 - A Volatile Tone
40:12 - Part 4 - Weak Characters
54:17 - Part 5 - Awful Representations
1:00:17 - Part 6 - Poor Pacing
1:08:47 - Part 7 - A Terrible Magic System
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Hey Guys,
This one was a massive creative experiment. I'm keen to know what you thought of it, and if there's anything I can do to refine this new style a bit more.
Also, feel free to join my discord where we talk about films, games, and creative writing. If you're a writer yourself you'll find a nice little community geared towards you there.
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But thanks for watching, I'm going to crack on with my next video. If you paid attention to this one you'll know exactly what my next upload will be on.
- Henry
YES
I’ve been anxiously awaiting this video!
I love it
Yeah, how about you stop stealing from nakeyjakey?
Did u ever think of doing a vid on Spider-Man 3 bcz I feel like the film didn’t fail bcz of 3 villains bcz Batman returns had 3 villains and it was good so can u do a video on the real reason it failed
Amateur bad writer:"Have you ever been in love?"
Legendary bad writer: "Anyway hows your sex life?"
Why does everyone looks like they are forcefully smiling while they actually want to go to the loo.
@@Simo-un2zu "You are my best costumer"
GODLIKE bad writer: "gotsum dicc?"
Virgin armateur vs chad amateur
@@psmith2403 customer*
If my coworker talked to me about being socially awkward and then asked if I've ever been in love, I would hardcore think they were totally into me.
Also, let me fix that line:
"It so hard, I can't make friends, my coworkers find me annoying... I can't even find someone to, you know, complain to about it over dinner. Have you ever been in love?"
Honestly same
@@ViolentOrchid would have made so much more sense if it was like:
B- have you ever been in love?
D- where’d that come from?
B- oh, I’m just thinking about things I’d like to do someday... someday when I’m more like you and less like me.
Adding on to this a little, maybe Barb could say something like, “In Highschool, I tried asking my crush out on a date. But I was so nervous I got sick/panicked right in front of them and they never talked to me again...”(pause while the actress looks sad.) “Have you ever been in love?”
Idk, something like that.
When i heard that Line i genuily thought Barbara was Liking Diana or Something like this
I literally laughed in theaters when she said "I want to be an apex peedator" bc I thought it was a joke. And then she turned into a cat, and I realized I was the joke all along.
in theaters huh
Yeah you're the joke because you paid to watch this trash, bud don't feel bad, almost all movies these days are trash.
What’s worse is she’s a cheetah, the only cat in Africa who gets absolutely *bodied* by everyone that isn’t an antelope
@@ReddFoxx1562 yeah?
@@wiggard when was this in theaters
Just wanna be clear that the old idiom of no one can love you if you don't love yourself is a harmful message too. A lot of people struggle with self love but the support and care of those around them is a great help. No one should have to conquer their depression or anxiety etc by themselves just to show they're worthy of love.
THANK YOU
The advice might work and apply to some people, it’s just that no advice is universal
Actually that message helped greatly throughout my life. It means to me that one cannot accept the fact others love them, if they don't have a proper concept of love for themselves.
You may think it's harmful, but it is fact that no matter how much others love and care for you, you will never accept or appreciate... That is if your concept of love is negative when directed towards yourself or in general.
That sounds like an excuse. If you aren't comfortable with who and what you are, how can you live a fulfilling life?
@@Dr.LightMarker5613"being loved" and "living a fulfilling life" are not the same thing. The point being made is that even people with crippling self-loathing can and often are loved, it just makes it _more difficult_ for people to love them. I don't understand why we as a society collectively agreed that telling people who already hate themselves that "no-one else loves you and they won't until you love yourself" is a good idea, rather than potential sui-fuel.
The message that it's okay to have a love affair with a stranger's unconscious body is a phenomenally poor writing choice
Where were the metoo people on that one?
@@pittland44 metoo isn't about sexual assaults in a movie scene it's about powerful Hollywood executives abusing there power over women a scene in a movie isnt Harvey Weinstein that said that scene was fucking offensive
@@110000116699 Hmm, well I actually appreciate your candor. I'm not sure if I 100% agree with you, but you are actually making a well reasoned, valid point about metoo. Which is not something that happens very often. My main gripe with the metoo stuff is Hollywood latching on to it for wokemon points while tinseltown has always been a breeder reactor for such behavior. Anyways, that's my two cents, cheers and God bless. 😁
See "Meet Joe Black" for a tasteful version.
That's true. But I find it even more horrifying to have your soul displaced. I mean the soul leaving the body for that long is sort of like temporary death. It's unintentional horror.
"I forgot my son is a human being."
We all do at some point.
Classic villain mistake.
Screenwriter was a fan of Eraserhead
Happens to the best of us to be quite honest with you
We all make mistakes in the heart of passion, Jimbo
... *Eustace* .....
One of the weirdest things about this complete mess of a movie- and it is not the worst, just one that stood out to me by showing how little knowledge of, well, anything went into this movie- is how Barbara looks like the definite 80’s beauty.
From the very voluminous blonde hair, to her body type and even attire, she is the exact kind of woman that the 80’s would idolize. Even the glasses are of the sexier kind, framing her light eyes perfectly.
This becomes painfully obvious when you see her in typical 80’s training gear, she looks like she stepped from “Let’s Get Physical”.
I mean, this would go even for today’s standards but in the 80’s, Barbara would be the ultimate in terms of mainstream aesthetics. I get that this is a trope, and it is always very bad, but the way it was handled here was perhaps even worse as they cast an actor who IS the impersonation of what the decade in question- the decade that’s in the title!- was known for.
If anything, Diana would be the “ugly duckling” of the two. She is obviously gorgeous but the 80’s would not have elected her as “the beautiful one” of the two. And this could have been used to criticize the decade’s notions.
If they wanted Barbara to be a victim, this would have been much better achieved by leaning into the way the decade fetishized women like her. She’s an academic, have her suffer by not being taken seriously by professors and peers. Not ignored or hated just cuz, but dismissed precisely because she is “the Barbie”.
This could work, it’d be very relevant in the 80’s and could still be very relevant for our time.
Well, you're thinking more than most of the people who worked on this film; what u said kinda makes sense. But WW1984 has a patchwork and nonsensical script where people forgot to think.
@@strawberrylime33 It's amazing how absolutely nothing, at all, works in this movie. It's almost like effort was put into making sure NOTHING worked.
I think historians specializing in public history would do this type of analysis for movies where they evaluate if the costumes and hair and accents and such are properly reflective of the time and place the story is set in, and when I took my ph class the professor told me that those historians (who watching historical movies that they know the history of) usually get extremely annoyed by how inaccurate things are, while ordinary people can't see anything at all and might even enjoy the movie.
I feel like your observation is leaning into that area (even though 80s really wasn't that far away), but still, a valid critique.
@@notinthemoodfornames8033 I mean, it doesn’t take an historian or even an expert of any kind, in this case.
*Brabra
I also feel like it should be mentioned that Diana has a really good life and tons of advantages like being an immortal super hero or whatever her deal is- so her saying “life is beautiful so you should give up your wish” rings very hollow. Yeah she has to give up a loved one, but this is a death she should have already come to terms with years ago, now having even more closure after seeing him again and getting to say goodbye again.
Shouldn’t it be the Cheetah lady saying this line, at least?
I haven't thought about this movie enough to come to any sort of depthful conclusions about it, but this is a *damn* good point.
@PhelesDragon I would've had Steve tell Diana straight forward that he didn't belong in our world as a frozen man from the 40s. He didn't live the 40 year gap between WW2 and 84, so he didn't grow with the changing world like Diana did. I also would've had Steve tell Diana that he could feel he was in an incubator while he was in his new magic body (no grape issue, the body Steve gets has 24 hours to become permanent) because the wish got his soul out of a baby currently in a coma because of Diana's selfish wish. Some weight in Diana's wish and a chance for her and Steve to meet again beyond the afterlife. Like this, Diana either has an option to move on with Cheetah (her being a good guy for a change) or wait for Steve to grow and meet him again. As an immortal herself it ain't creepy. Better than her graping an unconscious man until she tires of Steve's face in weeks.
It's almost as hollow as Gal Gadot getting all her celebrity friends to sing "Imagine" from their mansions during a pandemic. Not sure why this came to mind 🤔
@@chimominino5083 because as the rest of the world was suffering from their cramped apartments, the top 1% of the top 1% decided we were all in the exact same boat and wanted to share their struggles.
I think the scene would be so much easier to do well without the whole "people see the truth". Just use the "one has to speak true" power and use it on whatever the wish-granting force inside Max is. Unless of course it cannot work due to some rules established in another movie.
"It's true, I don't get out much socially. "
"What - not even a boyfriend?"
There. Dialogue fixed.
That's so smooth actually holy smokes.
Damn that’s good
Like most great ideas simple and to the point.
That's so good! 10/10!
that actually works
"the most toxic moral ever" 13 reasons why peeking around the corner soflty whispering " hey psst if you kill yourself you get everything you ever wanted"
That show just... Sucks
Why did it got four seasons again
@@donnamitsuki281 because one suicide is not generate enough profit i guess lol
@@donnamitsuki281 13 reasons why 13rw lasted that long
It's the most morally bankrupt thing I've ever seen. Like the demographic it is for should NOT be watching it. Although if you're not a part of that demographic it's hilariously bad.
@@joshgroban5291 13 reasons why there are 13 reasons why 13rw lasted that long
If you realize that the protagonist is using the body of her love interest for her own sexual and romantic desires without his consent, this turns from a superhero movie to a dark bleak horror real quick.
The body of a stranger, not her love interest.
Indeed. They talk about what’s happening in the text of the movie and yet still no-one thought to say “no, Diana wouldn’t even contemplate doing something so disgusting” - not for 1 minute. Maybe if he shows up looking like Chris Pine, and then later they both discover he’s occupying the “space” of a real person, and they confront that price as being too high to pay for their continued love, and that spurs her decision to reject the wish, then it works (conjuring him entirely from thin air doesn’t satisfy the monkey’s paw requirement of the wishes - you have to lose something too).
I interpreted Barbara saying “have you ever been in love?” As her flirting with Diana. Lol. I thought she was going to help Diana get over her dead boyfriend. But nooo
Believe me, ALL MEN were hoping the same thing...
@@DunmoresMovieMania Pretty sick of men fetishising lesbianism tbh
@@DunmoresMovieManiagirls like lgbt things too, but not because it’s a fetish
Biggest example of "unintentionally harmful" entertainment: Thirteen Reasons Why. It's basically a suicidal teenagers fantasy of how things will play out after they kill themselves.
Not exactly. The show is kinda toxic, but very good at representing the pain suicide can have on ones friends and family. I didn’t get emotional until I watched the scene where Hannah’s parents found her body. That brought tears to my eyes.
@@Soulthief4056 the depiction of her tapes and motivations comes across as a revenge fantasy. That is dangerous on its own, not to mention the portrayal of mental health
@@Soulthief4056 The problem is that it functionally shows her speaking and acting from beyond the grave and using her own death to solve problems. Not what the writer intended, but just a huge blindspot.
"Unintentionally"
No, dude, those people know exactly what they're doing.
13RW having suicide hotlines at the end is a fucking joke when whole show revolves around how everybody becomes guilty that you commited suicide and acts the way you wanted them to when you were alive. A suicidal person wants that and might believe that.
“She becomes instantly more attractive just by taking off her glasses”
Oh god not again...
@@restfulori212 You'll just have to settle with putting glasses on instantly makes you smarter.
Works for me. The blurriness hides some of the ugliness when I look in the mirror.
Thank god you guys don’t seem to get it...
@@pijamasaur8702 I get it. Wish it didn't happen to being with tho... :(
what is sad is that the first movie kinda subverts this trope. When Diana gets some new glasses to disguise herself ig idk the woman that dressed her said that they looked really good on her rather than making her look ugly
This movie broke me mentally and emotionally. Not just because of all the reasons you mentioned here and more, but because the first Wonder Woman movie is arguably the most enjoyable and downright earnest superhero movie I had seen since Raimi's first Spidey film. It blew me away and immediately shot up to the top 5 of my all-time favorite superhero movies of all time. I felt inspired to be a better person after leaving the theater.
Then '84 happened and _holy fuck._
if a superhero movie (and not even the 'best' superhero movie in your eyes, only the best since ...) can break you 'mentally and emotionally' then you are in need of real psychological help. get help`
Earnest? I didn’t like how the germans are portrayed as evil. It was the first world war that was incredibly grey yet Hollywood is unable to write a war story that isn’t based on the second world war. I just would’ve liked if they portrayed the germans more fairer here and not demonize them while romanticizing britain.
This really has an influence on people’s minds, many are not going to know anything about the first world war and are just going to be influenced by how it’s presented there
WW84 is terrible, and maybe I wasn’t the target audience for the first film, but I didn’t find it enjoyable. Better than the sequel absolutely, but some writing choices were just as bad and dialogue is something that DC writers just haven’t been good at ever. It’s interesting to hear that you loved the first one so much and hated WW84 when I don’t like either.
I’m curious as to what you liked about the first one that made it better than any other superhero film since Raimi’s original Spider-Man? I feel as though 80% of the Marvel catalogue is better than any DCU film produced so far, with the other 20% being about as bad.
@@ShoreFell Let me tell you, the simple fact that a worse movie came out. Or not just worse, a newer movie rather.
It’s always the same, new movie comes out, people start talking about how much better the earlier one was no matter how bad or good it was.
Same thing happened with the Terminator franchise, suddenly godawful movies like T3 that were hated for a good reason when they came out are seen as part of some Terminator holy grail just because Genisys and Dark Fate are newer and were even worse.
My daughter LOVED the first Wonder Woman movie. She is 8 years old now and apart from a couple small parts of the original movie it was a good family film. She really badly wanted to see WW84 and so we previewed it. What a disappointment. We couldn’t let her watch it.
1:18:00 To say “this is the kind of thing that you would expect to see written by like a fifteen year old” is an insult to fifteen year writers
Although being a year younger, truly. My friends are absolutely better than this, and honestly I can't believe he would defame and (opposite of libel) us teens. Atleast 'Super Kitty Adventures' (original fiction my friend made, not online though. I should really tell her to do that) has passion and soul put into it.
I genuinely thought that the moral of this movie was to give up on your dreams
im screeeeeeaming. this is the message that cost over $100 mil to produce
actually same, i was so, so confused what the hell i was watching
gotta be honest, same
And it is
@Andrew Natanael Herijanto I'm sure that was the goal but it was presented in such a twisted awful way yk
Me, a 15 year old writing fanfiction: yeah that's fair
@@Yigash wtf
Ngl, I've seen fanfiction better written than this movie
Awww come on, your fanfiction can't be THIS bad.
I wasn't saying fanfic is as bad as this garbage. I'm saying the tropes he mentions are for the most part common in fanfic.
Majority of fan fiction is better than this pile of garbo - this writing is something you make up after drinking a few too many and after seeing 90s comic book movies
What I found when writing dialogue is that there are different levels of smoothness to the flow of a conversation. For example with people I personally feel comfortable with I just talk about whatever, we have a good time and everything flows seemlessly together. If I talk to someone I once knew well but feel estranged from or I just met recently but feel like we can become friends, there are certain parts of the conversation that flow but then there are the awkward pauses and silences when nobody knows what to say, so I change the subject rather abruptly. And with people I just met and don't have an relationship I just don't talk. So TLDR: the relationship between two characters impacts the flow of their conversation.
Yes, and while on-the-nose is generally bad, sometimes saying what you mean directly is powerful. Just saying "I love you" isn't usually good, but a character who's ignored his feelings for 2 hours saying it - that would be powerful.
15:57 that line really feels like "man, I'm sorry to hear about your grandma's passing....... have you ever seen how a cow drinks?"
I honestly thought Barbara was in love with Diana for like 20 minutes during the movie.
LOL SAME
Honestly probably would have been better for the story. A lot you can do with unrequited love as a plot device.
Wait, she was not?
Something that sounds both gay and homophobic.... Lol
I refused to believe she wasn’t in love with her honestly, I thought she’d help Diana move on from Steve or something while being a bi icon
It’s so stupid that they didn’t consider that even one person might have wished for the world to end or something. As soon as the whole wish granting thing happened, it’s highly probable that the world would have just ended
Lots of contradictory wishes indeed and there is no time consistency in the granting of the various wishes.
Like, surely there are people wishing for world peace or that all stupid people die or mass destruction/murder/ resurrection/ immorality/ fiction into reality, ect ect ect. Even if it is a monkey's paw, it'd be a free for for all.
Wait wait... What if Bruce wishes to bring his parents back? Or Clark wishes back Krypton? Or Lex Luther wishes to be stronger than superman?
"I wish I was dead" - Someone overly suicidal, who now can't renounce their wish.
"I wish I was on a tropical island" - Assuming teleportation is allowed, no more TV to show WW's message.
"I wish all wishes were undone" - Cos no one should have that power, that's just stupid and reckless.
It really does sound like the worse plot ever. Also was everyone's memory erased after the event? Cos I'm pretty sure that should have caused reprocussions.
@@Coldheart322 omg I just thought, think of the children's wishes. That that's a movie I wanna see.
@@Bopperann That's easy you should look up Supernatural episode Wishful Thinking. A little girl wishes her teddy bear alive. But since all wishes go haywire it wants to commit suicide..
@@Mew_Mokuba_Akari I saw that episode 😆 Imagine that but x100 because far more children were making wishes! And I doubt the toddlers would be excluded so it'd be far worse than that _Honey I Blew Up the Baby_ movie.
So giant kids with superpowers and imaginary friends. Super villains making wishes (I'd love to see the Arkham game series Joker make some wishes.) And what happens to contradicting wishes? Surely some are made at the same time? As it's monkey's paw rules, does that mean "I wish for the world to end" would just mean it ending as we know it?
There's no greater illustration of how badly the writers of the DCEU misunderstand these characters than having Wonder Woman allow Maxwell Lord to walk free while Superman breaks a man's neck. Fate really handed us that one.
They could have easily avoided this if they included an arc of Diana fighting her darkness during the movie. Then you can draw the parallel of them both fighting their inner demons and one of them is able to overcome theirs.
She clearly had no idea how to portray someone accidentally turning themselves into a cat. Its definitely not like that, and I think a certain lawyer on Zoom can attest to that.
"Uhh.... I'm not a cat"
LMAO good one
He was wayyy cuter, too!
the only lawyer I know is the half asian super lawyer and that one idiot who simped so hard for captain marvel he tried to defend her breaking a dude's hand because he touched her map so I have no idea who you are referencing here
You seem to be a woman of culture!
This guy deserves an Oscar for making a movie out of a bad movie
Disaster Artist: The Sequel 😂
U watched the whole thing could never be me this is like cw flash but with wonder woman
My only issue is, while I don’t disagree that the movie has bad dialogue, the example was pretty weak. The conversation being poorly segmented fits Barbara as a character, which even he states in the video is a shy social outcast. With that information it makes sense she would awkwardly carry a conversation in that manner so the argument against the dialogue in this video feels a bit weak, when there’s other examples that would have made for a more compelling point.
Otherwise this was an excellent video.
*Good movie out of a bad movie
You should check out a CZcamsr Moviebob. He did this for Batman vs Superman, and it's this same length... 3 times over. He made a trilogy out of a bad movie.
22:19 So she has absolutely nothing in common with Comics Cheetah. Cheetah was also able to stand toe to toe with Wonder Woman because she was the sole worshipper of a forgotten god of the hunt.
You see, when TCL picks up his dog and holds him caringly at 48:50 , that makes the audience think, "Oh this Closer Look guy is a real caring and affectionate human to put his movie-breakdown on hold for a moment so he can introduce us to his dog and give him some attention." Unintentionally good timing for the topic he was explaining, hopefully he found that out while editing.
Why was no one talking about how this poor random man’s life was taken from him by a ghost, and Diana was willing to make it permanent. She didn't have a second thought about it. They didn't even gloss over this.
Council of geek has an entire video about that.
Don't forget about the fact that they had sex with that guy body and he probably wasn't aware of it happening.
@@icebill2
I'd say it'd be worse if he _was_ aware of it.
No one is talking about it because it was a MAN. And the ideology these days states that men have had it their way for eons and its time they got the flip side of the coin. You don't need to look far to see that Gadot ignores this thought, and Jenkins replies to the same scenario with laughter, via Twitter.
@@TheTsar1918 i think they domt cosidered that part tho, also if is a woman, man or etc, sleeping with someone without their consent is r*pe. also. what ideology are talking you about? equal gender oportunities doesnt mean that we like seing men getting r*ped.
Ten year old Bruce Wayne in 1984.
"I can't believe I'm grounded...I wish I didn't have parents..."
🎺🎺 *sad trombone noises*
His parents died earlier in 1981
@@Mactav3 he probably wished them back, but was forced to renounce his wish or something idk
@@isaiahthomas9817 WW: Please, rescind your wish!
Bruce: 👁👄👁
@@isaiahthomas9817 Or I like to think that Bruce was so traumatized and jaded he thought Maxwell's promise was a lie and ignored it.
I think the random "have you ever been in love" part in the conversation between Barbra and Diana could work specifically in the context of Barbra shooting her shot and hitting on Diana (like how I first interpreted the scene)
The thing about Barbara's arc that infuriates me the most? Think about influential people saying the wrong thing on stage and becoming a terrible influence, think about them, and think of the harm they can do and that is forgivable because saying the wrong thing in a split second decision on stage is incredibly easy. A movie. Is not that. A movie, is planned. It has been planned and scripted and reviewed and throughout a process of years, this still came out. This still got out and this is out here and it has this terrible message and its so irresponsible, this is neglect. Neglect of care for your OWN story. This is absolutely unacceptable.
People overlook the fact that WW raped the man that Steve was possessing... The hero of the film... rapes a man. This is a AAA title made as a family film by DC. wtf
Its fine because she's a woman
This fact was brought to you by mega sjws
@@dankllamas6984 I can't see twitter being happy about that either?? lol they seem pretty against men being raped too
Really? Everyone I heard comment on the film at any length brought it up.
@@dankllamas6984 omg no one thinks rape is okay, no matter who’s doing it
@@localpleb3875 while don't have the source on hand for a person thinking rape is ok, i can find a video of people saying animals can consent to sex
Edit: i think it was deleted
Hey, don’t diss fan fictions like that. I’ve read many that are faaaaarrrrrrr better than whatever WW1984 was trying to be
Ok, to be fair, there are actually a lot of underapriciated fanfiction writers. Some are REALLY good. I started with fanfiction, and I was pretty good for my age. If I wrote consistently since then, I'd probably be an actual author already XD
All the Young Dudes is ELITE
I just came from reading a amazing fan fic and I thought this thing too
Fanfiction doesn't have the same production value as a Hollywood script, that's why comparing the script to the fanfiction always does the former (but not the latter) a disservice. It's not that fanfics are bad. It's that people can achieve better results having much less resources and experience.
He wasn't. He specifically dissed FIFTEEN YEAR OLD'S FF...
I really like how you pointed out the jarring segues in dialogs.
Tbh the most organic way to combat that, that I had came up with, is to establish that the change of topic was something the character had planned ahead, for example you have your character having second thoughts about a certain topic or thinks about/realizes that they need to bring it up in the upcoming conversation they’re about to have with this second person. This way when there’s this bit of silence when no fresh ‘organic’ topic seems to rise up there’s a chance for that seemingly ‘fabricated’ one to be brought into the picture but - at least for me - it no longer feels as fake because in the back of your mind you were prepared to see it because there was a prompt given that it might’ve been something this character needed to talk about.
If anyone has any other ideas on how to combat that fake suddenly switch of topics in a conversation feel free to add it here!
i’m halfway through but wanted to leave this comment before I forgot-thank you for putting into words what I think many of us were thinking. it felt off they made barbara into the antagonist, especially starting off with the scene where they purposely had sinister music after she defended herself from an aggressive man at night post wish. you really broke into details exactly why and how the script did this, super cool video so far!!!
"What about character motivation?"
"We'll fix it in post."
BEST FILMMAKING JOKE EVER!!
I love how Wonder Woman tells everyone on Earth to renounce their wishes. What if some kid is dying due to a terminal illness, and the kid’s mother wishes for the kid to live? Is that such a bad wish?
But the point wasn’t that they were bad. It was that they weren’t real and they were hurting themselves
Because these wishes may grant you happiness, but take that away from somebody else. That is not right. For example, to heal one person from a terminal illness here, another person might succumb to it as a consequence. Getting what you desire without working hard for it/earning it through life, possibly at the expense of others, is a toxic mindset.
Edit: of course there are desires that could be viewed as an exception, and not everything in life can be "earned"; I chose my words wrong there. But even then, whether it is right to sacrifice someone else's happiness for your own, is at the very least questionable, and at the worst wrong. It all depends on what the desire is, and who are all affected by the decision. It isn't a toxic mindset by default, but it could become one.
I dont have all the answers: I try to express my understanding of this movies message, and I am not perfect. Peace and happiness to you all!
Her kid would be healed and then he would be run over or something. Monkey's paw
@@MeesdeFilmliefhebber the point is though, if you just wished for your terminally ill child to get better (which isn't something you can work hard/earn), then some superhero on tv tells you to renounce that wish because someone out there is supposedly suffering due to that wish, would the average person listen?
yes, monkey paws grant your wish but the wish will screw you over worse, the kid would have likely suffered a much worse fate then dying from the sickness the wish cured
as literary devices its often used as the easy but incorrect solution to a problem that will hurt you in the long run for not dealing with it properly
1:13:33 Let's not forget that Steve is somehow able to fly an F-111 after only ever flying World War I biplanes (just look up pictures of the F-111 cockpit and tell me how a WWI pilot is going to understand anything he's looking at, or even know how to start the engines). That's not even considering the fact that it's in a museum and is therefore unfueled and likely not airworthy, is able to fly almost 6000 miles without refueling despite having a range of only 3500 miles even with external tanks, is about 15 times faster than anything he's ever been in before, and even handles completely differently on the ground thanks to a fundamentally different landing gear configuration. And yet he somehow manages to fly it with no trouble.
The F-111 aardvark is my favorite military jet. Also the cockpit in night flying mode (pic on Wikipedia) looks awesome
I remember watching the movie and feeling the whole time that it didn't feel like a movie: it felt like an episode of a TV show. And I'm not talking about modern cinematic TV like Breaking Bad. I'm talking about 1980s sitcoms: the kind where they cranked out like 30 episodes a season by putting their writers in a boiler-room environment where they cracked the whip and scripts were barely finished in time each week.
when you pointed out Barbara saying "have you ever been in love" my head immediately jumped to "anyway how's your sex life" in The Room
I did not hit her! I did not! It's bullshit! Oh, hi Mark!
@@pittland44 Don't forget the bottle
pittland44 lol I thought I was the only one
same energy lol
I was looking for this comment, glad I found it
Not only is it a women directed movie poorly representing men, it’s a woman directed and wrote movie poorly depicting women and adding to their stereotypes it does both! especially with female friendships and just how science lady is treated and reacts to her newfound popularity, it like ugh I hate this movie so much
That's what saddens me. Then men point to this and go "SEE? Women can't make good movies, this is three problem with feminism forcing this BS representation nonsense, and now we all gotta suffer through this" But like...no. Just, no. That's not how any of that works, as if men don't ruin popular franchises, but it hardly matters to them. They'll take any justification they can get. And the worst part is, _Hollywood execs listen._ Now they think female led films are box office poison, and if they DO want to appeal to the female demographic, then they gotta bash men and fill it with toxic messages like "it's wrong to wish for things".
@@WobblesandBean
How do you not realise that you have Just made the *same* generalisation about Men?
You've literally Just put words in People's mouths and claimed that statement represents what men think and say.
@@WobblesandBean I mean, Wonderwoman 1was pretty good and the men are put on a pedestal as the ultimate force of love in the universe that gives meaning to life and the same shitlords hated that. I don't think anybody honestly thinks the problem here is the director's gender. To be fair, I don't believe directors can be held responsible for everything. It's a scriptwriters job to write jokes and make dialogue natural. Also, I guess a lot of people were sleeping at the wheel to allow this much rape and sexual assault in their superhero movie. Remember all those memorable sexual assault scenes in your favourite superhero movie? I don't.
You're right, this movie vilifies the female friendships which perpetuated toxic narrative that women don't need friends only love interest
@@WobblesandBean
🤡
what I tend to do when I sit down to write a scene is I make a chart that says "(1)What does each character want from this conversation/interaction (sometimes that may be just "I want to get out of this conversation), (2)what do these characters think of each other (what is their level of trust), (3)"how high is their charisma stat (for lack of a better term)", what is my (the writer's) goal for this scene. Then I have a framework to play in. I know my goal, but I also know the goals of my characters and I can manipulate outside circumstances to help achieve my goals more organically. I'm not published so take with a grain of salt, but it's something that helps me get words on the page that I feel don't completely suck.
I love the way that conversations can evolve. Me and my friend went from talking about how fun it is to play mermaids in the pool to talking about how much we like death .... real conversations are wild
Honestly that "have you ever been in love" moment could have been *completely* fixed if they'd just had an awkward pause. They run out of things to talk about, they both kinda glance around, then Barbara asks a question she thinks will kind of restart the conversation. Literally nothing in the script changes, and you add like 6 seconds to the runtime.
Would also give characterization to Barbara by making her look even more socially awkward. And it would be actually funny
This movie is already 18 hours long and you want to add even more seconds?
@@fabianhebestreit3240 If it was interesting, yes. I don't understand why movies have to be less than an hour and half or people complain about how long they are.
@@peytonmac1131 They don't have to be. But we aren't talking about well-paced long movies like Magnolia or Love Exposure. WW84 is a movie that is definitely 40 minutes too long and feels endless.
@@peytonmac1131 for me I just wanna get out of the cinema ASAP from just how cringey it was, I’d rather be out of the cinema a second faster than have just one scene be slightly more tolerable. I thoroughly regret inviting my friends along.
That's the most sarcastic “wow you're so funny” I've ever heard. Gal gadot's delivery was borderline criminal
I honestly thought that was the point, initially - that WW was trying to be snarky. But I guess not.
Nah bro, it's just she was trying to show how powerful of a woman she was by not showing emotion. You see, Patty Jenkins here was showing woman power, it was all on purpose, I swear
It is.😄😄😄 I was never super critical of this movie, but that whole conversation was very artificial.
Worst person they could have picked to play someone as fiery and commanding as Wonder Woman. Been saying that since the first movie.
@@Jay-Jones that's why I like perfectionist directors. There's no way Tarantino is letting her get away with delivery like that
“I didn’t really think this through, even slightly did I?” *chefs kiss* - Every terribly written villain ever. Love it.
Powerlifter here, I've never seen this movie before, but just wanted to weigh in on this frame shown at 12:50 . Those plates should add up to somewhere between 225lbs and 250lbs. Which is good for a strict overhead press, but for a clean and jerk, this would be very mid. Also, the bar is bending and would not be at that load.
The whole "renounce your wish" bit seems to be written by someone who has never had to actually struggle with anything in life.
Geoff Johns
Probably it is
"Wanting something is bad"
Villain: "I'll uSe nUkEs tO dEstrOy thE wOrLd!!"
Wonder Woman: "uh, your son is IN the world?!??!! "
Villain:" DOH !!!"
the End...
Reminded me of the Guardians of The Galaxy scene where Starlord yells at Rocket “uh Yeah I’m one of the idiots living in it!!”
Rocket: "Why would we want to save the Galaxy? What has it ever done for us?" Starlord: "Because we're among the idiots who *live in it.*"
Flawless logic, literally.
@Franca Wong Not even the dumbest of fish will fall for such obvious bait
@@nbewarwe Give it time, there is always someone that will bite the bait
@Franca Wong fishing rod
Surprisingly enough, random questions that come out of nowhere like "Have you ever been in love" are extremely common in real life conversations. I ask them myself all the time during lulls in conversation. But they do not feel real in a movie unless something has prompted them.
I mean, i agree with you that it’s good to delete the scene that doesn’t fit the overall story FROM THE STORY but don’t throw it away! Copy and paste it into its own document for crying out loud. Because if it’s the best thing you’ve ever written, it has inherent value to YOU the writer and it may prove useful down the line!
It bothers me so much when people write something and it doesn’t work, and then for one reason or another it’s gone forever. Like when my 5th grade teacher took my story and just tossed it in the trash can. Decades later i wonder what was in that story. I’d love to re-examine it.
Like by all means kill your darlings, but keep an archive of the stuff you’ve written even if it’s “useless”.
This is something I am considering right now. I am writing a novel, and wrote a sub plot in it that I really like. But it doesn’t feel like it can be properly handled in the grand series. So I am considering just Making that plot line a short story in its own right, instead of cramming it into the novel series. It would only require a little tweaking of the the plot line to make it unrelated, so then I can simply extract my darling
The “moral” of the movie is to “Stay in your Lane”. Barbra is punished for trying to be anything other than the reclusive nerd, that only naturally attractive women get what they want, and men are objects for women. Diana is naturally attractive so she gets her man back. But this is done in the worst way possible which should be raising concern about the role of consent on part of men. He’s even labeled as ‘handsome man’ in the credits. Objectified for his looks. His body is stolen and used to have sex with another woman. What if the man had a wife, or girlfriend? What if he was gay, or had taken a religious vow of chastity? What if he was asexual? None of those things are considered.
So, in short: don’t be unattractive.
DC movies: Be beautiful and powerful or keep your head down and hope you don't die nerd
Marvel movies: Thor is fat, Rocket's a bunny, saving the world can be cool and funny
The thing that irks me the most is how the lesson from the start doesn't have anything to do with the lesson we're told Diana learns in the movie.
Her mother teachers her that cheating is bad and to never take shortcuts. Here's the problem, in the past she was activity doing that through her own choice. As an adult, her 'wish' was granted without her knowing and without her really taking it seriously outside of it being a random thought and desire. How the fuck does that count as Diana cheating when that was never her intention from the start? The lesson at the stat is don't cheat but the lesson after that is 'be careful what you wish for' yet they try to slam them into being the same lesson when neither of it feel deserved.
@@SuperCosmicMutantSquid But still though what flustercluck of a story
Oh my god
Can you even imagine the absolute shitstorm that would be raised if the protagonist was male and the love interest and body-stealer was female? Possession's always been a squicky horror concept to me in any context, 'cause even if that stolen body isn't used for sex, it's still such a fundamental violation of someone's existence that only villains could treat it so nonchalantly.
I think the worst thing about the Barbara storyline is that Wonder Woman was created as a role model for young girls to look up to and aspire to be. Wonder Woman is supposed to be an empowering symbol, a message that girls and women can be strong and brave and kind and noble, too. But then Barbara aspires to be like Wonder Woman and she's turned into a monster. It undermines the entire point of Wonder Woman's existence. It looks at women who want to be like Wonder Woman and tells them, "You can't be like her. Even if you could have every wish granted, you'd never be as good as her," and that's such a terrible message to include in a movie intended to empower and inspire women and girls.
"empower and inspire" "strong and brave" 😂😂🤮🤮🤮
@@IkesPimpHand incel
@etherealvaleska4483 I completely agree, even if Barbra hadn’t gone crazy the film sets up a view of reality that is dangerous with the opposite sex being the villain which is not a world I would want my daughter growing up in.
@@IkesPimpHandWhat’s so funny?
what about boys who also want to be strong and brave and kind and noble? are they just not allowed 😕😕
17:25 As someone with ADHD, I'll have a stray thought that's barely related to a single detail of the previous conversation and then follow up on that, and blurt out things that to the other person comes out of nowhere.
I'm actually really glad I stumbled on this video when I did. I'm gearing up for a lil' bit of exposition for a DnD session and need to make sure it's engaging and leads to further insight and wrote in my notes a few bullet points on what to say. When you spoke about the "checklist" approach to writing I though I'd need to re-work how I lay out my notes, but the example you gave of naturally leading the conversation into another topic is something I've been doing since the very start, thank you for the insight, it's very reassuring.
Remember the OTHER superhero story where an American soldier named Steve sacrificed himself in a plane and then came back after 70 years and visited his true love? Yeah, that movie was way better.
The funny part is they could have referenced it 😂😂😂
Oh, do you mean the other movie where the American soldier Steve is played by Chris?
But he could have landed somewhere.
The main character didn’t even rape someone in that movie.......... unlike this one, and nobody even talks about it
Owen Keenan and who the fuck would want that in a movie anyways. It depends on what its going to be about mostly but its a story about a SUPERHERO KIDS WATCH IT
It's actually worse than "having a role model and improving yourself is bad." Barbra breaks down after almost being sexually ASSAULTED and saved by Diana. She wants to be strong like Diana TO DEFEND HERSELF FROM PREDATORS. And the movie paints her as BAD for that.
didnt think of that thank you for that
Barbara is justified in wanting to be strong. Nothing wrong with that, but it is wrong to beat someone so badly, all knowing you are 20x stronger than they are. Barbara became her attacker. She lost her humanity when she became powerful. She could have easily just pushed him aside. Instead, she beat him up, even though at this point he poses no threat to her. After throwing him against the truck and saying no, she should have walked away. She is not someone to look up to.
Her actions were bad though. Just because you feel slighted and want something doesn't mean you should be able to do anything you want.
@@visassess8607 Exactly!
i tthink you're just refusing to admit the fact that just cause you were a "victim" doesn't mean you have the right to go full hulk on everything. Complex truths like that are what gives superhero comics great depth
You can tell this guy is a good writer simply by the way he does his ad transitions. Seamlessly connected in his flow of dialogue, and no awkward cutaway to him saying “This video is sponsored by …”
So late to the conversation on this one, but I am autistic. I had very little exposure to social interactions, because I was the weird introverted kid. I learned social standards from TV and movies. It was the only thing I could. I learned never to compliment myself, because all the mean girl bullies do that, and I don’t want to be one of those. I learned that all bad acts should be forgiven if apologized for, regardless of context, because that’s what the heroes did. I learned that when a friendship is rocky, it will always heal if the two people fighting are good people, because that’s what always happened. I learned many bad things from media because of this. It made my self esteem rocky, my apologies hollow, and my friend breakups heart breaking. Now I try to subvert those lessons and teach hopefully but realistic lessons about the world, so those who read that are in my position can learn something better. We all need to be aware of the accidental morals we teach, both on a blatant and subtextual level.
"I want to be an apex predator" is such a stupid line. It's one of the many in this movie that don't make sense. HUMANS ARE ALREADY APEX PREDATORS. THAT WOULD BE NO CHANGE
Does komodos and tigers eating us count or do apex predators eating apex predators not count?
@@williamstark9568 no that doesn't count because humans aren't a natural food source to those animals. Elephants can and do kill lions, but the lion is still the apex predator. You become an apex predator when you're at the very top of your respective food chain, there is no animal that relies on your species as part of it's natural diet. Humans aren't a natural part of any animal's diet, we are the very top of our food chain. We're apex predators. Not only that, but humans are actually the most dominant apex predator in the world, so becoming anything else is technically a downgrade because humans are already the world's most dangerous predators
@@zachclawges6932 that is neat
I also like that the line after was “like something that has never been seen before” and then the stone turns her into a creature that exists in nature lol
We aren’t apex predators
We are hyper-predators we hunt and kill apex predators for fun or food
Here I was so distracted by all the rape that I didn't even consider the whole "trying to become a better person will ruin you" narrative.
So much wrong with it, but honestly we should just be happy with how it is and stop wishing to have better movies made instead
@@maxkordon what a wise human being😂
@@maxkordon or convince them to make better movies in the future...
Here's a weird thing, have you seen Coming 2 America yet?
Everyone was in uproar over WonderWomans rape scene but in Coming 2 America Eddie Murphie's character gets drugged and is so out of it he thinks he's having sex with an animal. In fact it's important to the plot that he didnt know it was happenning, but no one seems bothered over that?
Alright, that's enough... I'm pretending this movie didn't happen. Only the 1st WW is canon in my eyes, just like the DC comics where Batman is actually a good father.
Two years late but here's a couple things you can do if you're having trouble getting from one topic to another convincingly in dialogue.
1. Silence. Awkwardness. Not too long 'cause that'll ruin the scene in other ways, but depending on the relationship between your characters, it's perfectly okay for the conversation to die. Have your characters trail off, sip at their drinks or chew on their food for a couple of seconds. Follow that up with one character visibly fishing for something interesting to talk about - and there's your way in.
2. Noise, and lots of it. If your scene is in a public place, you have plenty of filler that will make a subject jump less obvious, and can present visual cues for tangents. A restaurant scene in which a rowdy patron disrupts the conversation by yelling at a waiter is an easy segue into "That reminds me, my uncle's a shitheel." Can be easy to trap yourself into only seeing the dialogue, and try to make the conversation support itself, but using your setting can be a real advantage.
If the new topic is "have you ever been in love", though, there is no trick and no tool that can ever pull you out. You committed that line to paper, and it will punish you for it. I don't think anyone has ever asked another real human being this question, and I cannot see how it contributes to any scene ever.
The one piece of arguably shit writing I don’t fully hate is “I wish we had more time” because in my mind this is how Diana phrases her wish she made in her head. That would also explain why she stops in her tracks when she hears it.
A fix to the end of the movie: Diana is said to have lost faith in humanity, with the events of BvS and Justice League finally bringing her faith back. So show it here; Diana begs humanity to rescind their wishes or the world will end, with the only other option being to kill Lord. Humanity refuses. At her wit's end, she is forced to kill Lord, depriving a child of his father and soiling her own hands for the sake of a race who couldn't be bothered to save themselves. Disgusted at what she's been forced into doing, she abandons her role as the savior of humanity and goes into the shadows until the events of BvS, where she comes face to face with the truth that humans are more complex than what she thought.
Does it fix the movie? No, but at least it ties into the rest of the continuity. Also, you've got a new villain in Lord's kid, if you want to go that route.
Damn that's a good and realistic ending.
THANK YOU
They didn't even have to invent that, Wonder Woman breaks Maxwell Lord's neck to free Superman of his mind control during the Crisis of Infinite Earths or shortly before so the idea was already in the comics.
Or maybe be more original, and the kid decides to move on with his life instead of following such a stupid path like revenge
@@motivated2473 don't forget this is a superhero movie, stupid revenge plans are the bread and butter of this genre. 😂
It’s amazing to me they tried to make the morale be “there’s no shortcuts to success” in a Wonder Woman movie. You know, the woman who didn’t have to work hard for anything she has because she was given the perfect Amazon genes at birth and born into royalty.
“You have to work hard for what you want!” says the woman who just naturally has super strength and just learns to make things invisible or fly without any actual practice. Myth of Meritocracy: The Movie more like.
i mean, *IF* you're competent you could write about how diana had to work hard to be viewed as exceptional and a hero, even in the amazon society
but that's a big if
@@Crabgar oh yeah totally; I think they definitely could have written a movie about how intensely trained Amazon warriors are, and have the morale be that raw power without proper training can be unwieldy. But that’s clearly a very very different script to pull that off.
Not to mention the fact that the scene with the horse race that supposedly showed her cheating was not cut and dry. She didn't intentionally take a shortcut and it wasn't obvious she even knew she did anything other than pull a sweet come back move. Cool scene but a horrible choice when trying to establish a theme of deception which requires intent.
It’s almost as bad as Captain America preaching against drugs
The original movie was at least about about Diana emotionally, intellectually, and even spiritually maturing and didn't short cut it.
18:11
A: *eats bread* *muffling* this bread tastes pretty good.
B: I think a baquette would be better for you *starts sliding a finger across hand of A*.
A: *still eating bread* while we are talking about baquettes you know that my uncle put a baquette up his [redacted] last night.
B: what the [redacted] is wrong with you?!
A: what?! *bread crumbs now are spit towards B* what did I do?
B: *slaps A* You ruined our date! *runs out crying*
A: Bread is good. Bread dosen't slap you. *eats raw bread*.
The Room dialogue was actually better.
WW 84 - "I am X, you are Y."
The Room - "My situation is X and the reason is Y."
The Room is actually conveying information between characters that they might not both know.
Saying that this is like a fifteen-year-old's fanfic is an insult to fifteen-year-olds. Believe it or not, they can write way more thought out stories with better moral lessons and themes.
Also, there is one case where an abrupt topic change is okay, is if one character isn't comfortable with the topic.
Morals aside, I think what would make teen fanfiction better than this film is that there is at least some enthusiasm put into the work.
Me who’s sixteen working to write a good story: HAHA! I beat the system!!
im 15 and I was kind of offended that my stories were compared to this bombshell of a movie.
I'm
@@yikes7639 Same, that's why I commented
Wonder Woman telling everyone to give up on their wishes:
Batman wishing for his parents back: 👁👄👁
Superman wishing for his *planet* back: 👁👄👁
Some guy wishing for world peace: 🤡
Some guy wishing for the world to go back to normal
Quite surprising that not a single depressed edgelord wished for the world destruction
@@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214 What do you think world peace would mean for a djin? What do you think peace means? The only way that wish would have come true, would have been for every single thing on earth to die, and guess what, that would have happened.
Superman wishing or his planet back? Hmmmmm kinda like what Zod did?
Batman fo.. actually I'm just gonna stop.
That's the thing, it wasn't that the people wishing stuff was evil, but keeping that wish KNOWING the cost, and usually not to you, is what was evil. That thing, the god that made that wishing stone, was a trickster.
Some guy wishing to dismantle the toxic capitalist hiearchy that we live in: (:
The sad thing is the invisible jet idea was better done in the animated series by having her take it from an enemy. Thus, they could have it early on that she's fighting a supervillain with that jet, it is then buried in a museum by people who don't understand the special capabilities, they take it from the museum; it's magic so there's no problems with fuel but it couldn't fly etc without someone magical at the controls.
You then have an awesome early fight scene, you have chekhov's gun instead of deus ex machina, and you have a reminder that her powers are magical in nature.
Nah dude, saying that no one will love you if you don't love yourself is also an incredibly harmful message.
people deconstructing bad movies is my new addiction lol
Seriously, this has been single greatest source of entertainment for the past 3 years and made me consider going into film school.
Same here
If you somehow haven't seen or heard Mauler's work...check him out.
Been in this game for the past 10 years...welcome to the cynical cinephile club!
Literally just came from HelloFuture Me's 2 hour The Last Airbender video
The worst part about the Diana and Steve thing is that when Steve actually points out how wrong it is that he's stolen that guy's body Diana says she doesn't care and just wants him. Our "heroine" everybody. The whole "Everybody takes back their wishes because the truth" was stupid as well. There will have been people who wished to have dead loved ones back, wished to be cured or have family members cured of serious illnesses, poor and homeless people wishing their way out of poverty, people who can't have kids wishing for them and so on. Then there'd be more selfish people like greedy rich people wanting more money and power, someone wishing for a person they don't like to die or something. So no way would literally everyone take their wishes back. Is Diana even known to the world in the film? Because if she isn't there's no way they're going to listen to a random woman telling them that. And if she is then Wonder Woman or not some people still won't listen.
The only solution to such a predicament as this is usually to eliminate the source of the problem: the crystal. The severity is too wide spread to simply ask people to unwish in a timely manner, so simply create a paradox and wish that at the moment when the first person found the crystal and picked it up, it shattered into dust. It would prevent the destruction of the world via bootstrap.
Everyone being asked by Diana to give up their wish: "After All, Why Not? Why Shouldn't I Keep It?"
@@LordDaret so... Kill the dude
I mean he literally made the stupid decision of _becoming_ the crystal
Edit: misread. I get what you're doing. Who the hell would make the wish tho? How would that work? Diana's wish took away her powers. Is that were the paradox starts? The crystal can't take something from Diana cause it doesn't exist?
Bringing a loved one back to life is fucked up. Shown by Steve,the loved one itself doesn't come back,it's just the soul in another body. So... Don't you think it would be as bad as what Diana did? As fucked up and wrong? You have to let people go...
Everything else tho,I feel like Monkey's Paw would come to them sooner or later,sadly.
@@donnamitsuki281 if the crystal could not maintain its form and shattered into dust the moment it took Diana’s powers, then no one could have used it (I have not watched any DC universe movies/ read comics aside from this review, so I may be lacking some info about its creation.)
How do I know the writers in this film didn't care? In 1984 there was an actual "invisible jet" called the U2 spy plane on display in the Smithsonian Institute. And guess what band also had a major album release in 1984...U2.
The fact that the writers missed these obvious cultural touch points and went with WW rubbing her hands together to make the plane invisible (which would still make it detectable by radar) shows how little effort they put into writing this film.
I watched this whole thing.
You don't understand. I get 3.5 mins into most video essays and need to clense my pallet with a video game, music, a tutorial, or anything else because I really do get bored that fast. My ADHD diagnosis comes with a Boarderline Autism diagnosis, so I feel you on the Aspergers. I love Science, engineering, and all the other nerdy little fiddly bits of knowledge hoarding but I can't watch those videos because they spend more than 3 minutes on explaining the promise and I just know they aren't getting to the point this century. I watched your entire video. I knew it was over an hour before I started it. You are that engaging. Thank you.
Also, I think you explained all the reasons DCU fails where MCU succeeds. And why the current phase of MCU is failing. (I'm looking at you, Taika Watiki (too lazy to look up spelling, sorry.))
Probably one of the most disappointing sequels of all time. How they went from the first film to THIS is beyond me
All the good writers left, no joke. It was written by the director and another bad writer smh
Agreed. The first one was actually good
@@purpleplanetary Ah, so Hollywood putting all the success on the director as usual instead of the writers
In the first one they just copied what Captain America first avenger did.
The sequel has no Zack Snyder
2:20 “why do you want to save the galaxy? What has it ever done for you?”
“Cause I’m one of the idiots who lives in it!”
-Guardians of the Galaxy
Producer Guy: That works!
the only right answer
Damn, part 2 was terrifying. As you were going through that summery, having never seen the movie, (Thank Goodness) the number one message I was pulling from that is that self-improvement is dangerous. I am currently on the young end of things, and though I won't be telling my exact age for privacy reasons, I will say that I am at an age where most people are forming their identity as an independent human being and are going through some major mental upheaval, myself included. I am also having some real issues with self-esteem/depression/suicidal thoughts atm, and I can very easily see how that message could be *literally deadly* for someone in a similar situation (Don't worry about me, I'm too stubborn to ever let the world win, and it's more wonderings than true contemplation anyway). I am just very glad that I have the ability to look at the world from a logical and objective standpoint outside of my experience/feelings to know that that message is blatantly incorrect.
I just discovered your channel. Loved your breakdown of the problem with Rotten Tomatoes and subscribed during that video. Found this 2 yr old video along the way, and could relate to your honesty about struggling with writing. I have a book in my head, but I can't get it out onto paper. I recognize how bad of a writer I am; I wouldn't even buy my books if I had just pushed on to the end, but I'm occasionally working on it. Loved your Windows error message, and regarding your 1M subs promise about your screen play, I'm excited that you're already at 993k subs as I'm writing this.
When she asked "are you in love" I thought that she was coming on to her
Same
Oh thank god I’m not alone
Why would that have been such a better movie. Why. I want that now.
the entire setup with diana not being over steve and barbara being lonely and feeling bad about herself really made me think they were going to make this a hero-needs-to-save-the-world-but-can't-do-it-alone-and-falls-for-the-person-helping-them thing and i was soooo confused when they instead pulled the steve thing, so all that goes a long way to say thank god i'm not the only one who saw that
@@ms.x1681 this probably would have been a better movie 🍿
I pretend that the reason Steve feels like a cardboard cutout in this movie is that the stone didn't bring the real Steve's consciousness back to life. It possessed a man's body and made it behave according to Wonder Woman's memory of Steve and how she expected/wanted him to act. The stone didn't resurrect Steve so much as it created a crude copy of him.
This could have set up a convincingly tragic subplot where Diana is initially swept up in the euphoria of being reunited with her lost love, so she doesn't notice or denies all the subtle ways in which "Steve's" mannerisms feel just a bit off. But as the emotional high starts to fade, Diana notices more and more how Steve's behavior, while not dangerous or sinister, feels stilted and artificial. Maybe he's never unhappy or frustrated. Maybe he never says anything about his past life that Diana herself didn't already know. Maybe he only ever says the things that Diana wants to hear, rather than what she needs to hear.
Diana could be forced to face the painful truth that this isn't Steve, that the stone has been lying to her this whole time by merely projecting a phantom that she desperately wanted to believe was the real Steve. Wonder Woman could have an emotional moment of character development where she finally accepts the truth that Steve is still dead and that no wish can bring him back.
Maybe the stone's control of this male stranger can gradually weaken, so the mind of the body's original occupant starts trying to reassert itself. This could be shown as an internal battle for control where the real man is scared, angry, in pain, and confused about what's happening to him. This would further drive home the message that the stone grants wishes at a terrible human cost. Wonder Woman could see this and acknowledge that her wish was a terrible mistake, that it's selfish and unfair for her to override this stranger's bodily autonomy just to flirt with the phantom of her lost love. She'd have even more of a personal emotional stake in preventing/undoing all the other wishes and in destroying the stone for good.
But instead we just got awkward scenes of Steve and Diana flirting and doing the do with the body of a stranger who can't consent.
Erin I think you are spot on. I had this exact same thought. I don't think Steve ever actually came back. Only Diana saw him as Steve. Everyone else saw him as the handsome man.
I think Steve's persona was created by Diana's memories. Every wish granted came with a trick. The stone took Diana's powers, but the trick was that it wasn't really Steve. Steve himself at the end said "I'm already gone". My theory is that Steve didn't die in the first movie. The clue is, the pilot he knocked out had a parachute! He parachuted off the plane moments before it blew. Erin, I don't know your age group but in the late 80's/early 90's we had a show called Quantum Leap. Scott Bakula's character would "leap" into other people's bodies and take them over to sort out problems in their life. Once completed, he would leap into another person. Back then we just accepted it I guess. I think this was Patty's idea. By the way, I liked WW84 and I think digging a little deeper into it, it's not quite as simple or flawed as first thought. Anyway, your comment was a great one. Thanks!
Holy….. That sounds like such a good movie
The entire time I watched the movie I thought that's what was going on. Chris Pine's acting was uncharacteristically stiff and not at all like his portrayal in the first movie. I kept waiting for the reveal that it wasn't really him but it never came.
Your idea is great. The one they actually wrote is sick and disgusting.
And the fact that when she has Sex with him, it could easily be considered as RAPE
I love watching dumb movies get demolished by smart people, but this movie was so bad that it was disturbing. Unsettling.
In this episode you promised to share your first screenplay and video with us when you hit a million subs... As of now you have 1.03 Million!
The Closer Look: Captain America
Me: *slowly raises pitchfork*
The Closer Look: No no no, THIS Captain America
Me: *Slowly lowers pitchfork*
WHO'S STRONG AND BRAVE HERE TO SAVE THE AMERICAN WAAAAAY
That was a really good comment to read! 🤣
When Captain America throws his mighty shield!!
It always surprises me when people say the Captain America 1 is one of the worst MCU films. I only watched it once or twice, but I remember liking it a lot!
And let's not forget how *SHIT* Wonder Woman's speech was at the end of the movie.
For me that was one of the few decent scenes, wasn’t powerful, was just acceptable
I can’t get over the fact that this speech was also targeted at parents who wished their kids weren’t sick anymore, poor people who wished for food or little kids who wished for their dead parents back or toys or some crap, just good people wishing for normal good things.
So her entire speech was just dumb to me and I hated it.
Well she was rehearsing "Imagine" but in a speechy style.
It was worse than the love letter i wrote in the name of my crush when i was 12 and decided it was shit and flushed it down the toilet
Only thing I disagreed with was that "this is a female director, poorly representing men" comment. This is a female direct poorly representing men, women, children and everything in between.
When I write dialog, I go in having a sentence I want a character to say rather than points I wanna make, then I can build up to that sentence or phrase and smooth it in. I also tend to stick by the rule 'show don't tell' so instead of having one of them say (if I don't want to come up with a joke) "Wow! You're so funny!" I would have them say "Ha! So true though! It's so funny!", but it really depends on the character and what joke the other one told (which also depends on their character design). Also, you were completely right about what a real conversation looks like! Good job on that! I think that instead of just having one of them say "Have you ever been in love" they could've made her say "I've had trouble finding love..." and then make the other one say "Yeah, me too. It's hard." or something to that effect. It's OK to have one character randomly get distracted and say something completely random, but you need a pause where neither know what to talk about anymore.
If you're writing a story, you need to have at least one moral, and it has to be a healthy one, because if you don't plan one (just like a Minecraft world seed), people will create one for you, and it might not be good. You cannot start out planning what your moral is, or the story will seem choppy and unnatural. Write down the idea, then elaborate a little, and (before you get to the climax or exposition) finally you can look at who your characters are, who they used to be, and figure out who you want them to become. Using this method, you can often squeeze out of a couple of characters a strong, healthy moral. For instance, I'm currently writing a story that I got from a dream. This story features four humans, two dragons, and a changeling. One of them feels nothing due to trauma from their early childhood. One of them carries a deep resentment for their father due to trauma from most of their childhood (a lot of trauma). (the others also have issues, but those two are the most prevalent). The one who feels nothing comes to realize their trauma and thus finally undergoes a healing process that isn't quite complete, but is better than nothing, implying that "You can't change everything that is faced, but nothing that isn't faced can be changed". The one who resents their father finally reconciles as that father dies (a lot of trauma), implying that broken things can be fixed with care. In the end, they discover a new nation searching for recognition, and finally show it the light, implying that sometimes things that seem to be menaces are just unrecognized for their full potential. At the same time, all of the characters are of the LGBTQIA+ community, one of them is color blind, three of them are girls, and five of them aren't white (and neuro divergencies haven't been decided yet), implying that everyone has potential to do great things. The story has several strong, healthy morals, you just can't have multiple types of morals for one plot point, or it gets jumbled (the story doesn't have a center moral, but it has a lot of small ones). You can have a moral for the love life of a character and the emotional side of a character and the job of a character and all these different things (heck you could have two morals for their love life, if they're closely intwined!), but you cannot wrap it all up for the character, and then say ten completely different morals for their whole arc, because then none of them will make it through. I should make a Morals Map or something..... I think it is INSANE that they managed to mess up this hard. I am barely a teen and I could write in a better moral than that! I completely agree with what you think they should've done, also.
I've never actually had problems with tone... I mean, some parts are obviously darker than other parts due to the fact that things happen, but it's never like THAT!! Friggen frick...
Did you get the earth exploding thing from the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, or is that just what I wish it was??
I love writing stories where I smash stereotypes until they're little more than fine dust! :D (also I always do a lot of research for all of my character and representations, as well as using what I've actually witnessed of the real world, which is that when a bunch of people are doing yoga, everyone's either deliberately avoiding staring or they're acting natural and not being explicitly gross. On top of all that, I make sure that when I confront stereotypes I always show them as destructive at worst and uncomfortable/frustrating at best. Oh, also I write fantasy so I get to make up my own cultures!). On the point of being a bad writer if you can't see yourself in their shoes, I am atheist and because I don't want to misrepresent Christians or Catholics or anyone like that, I'll either make up my own dominant religion (generally explicitly proven, but sometimes not), or I'll hand wave it and not write anything distinctly atheist or religious.
BRANDON SANDERSON. He is actually my favorite writer ever so far. I'm currently reading Rhythm of War (or avoiding reading it bc I don't want to finish it too long before the next comes out), and ALL of the Stormlight Archive is the best book I've ever read! I love Kaladin, Syl, Dalinar, Shallan, Pattern, Navani, and the whole plot is amazing! I cannot get enough of the perfectly spaced tidbits that hint to one thing or another, but don't give it away!! It's like candy for my brain! The climax for book one (The Way of Kings) ACTUALLY gave me excited jitters and got my heart racing, and it felt like I was FRIGGING THERE!! I only kinda started reading Mistborn, but then my brother wanted to read it and I'm a suck up so here we are, but in the first TWO CHAPTERS I was already getting invested in the story! It's just the most well-crafted set of books I have ever read, and I don't know if people hundreds of years from now are going to beat it. Anyway, conclusion: Brandon is actually a god of writing (some culture probably had one at some point. If not, I'm making one now), come from the void around us to fix the fact that nobody has good ideas anymore.
I write a lot of magic (comes with fantasy, I'd say), and whenever I do, I always write down explicitly what that magic can do. If there's a book of spells someone might do, STRAP IN ME! WE'RE WRITING A BOOK OF SPELLS!!! (this is why I don't write witches or wizards). For instance, THE magic one of my current characters can do is written down as "Amplification. This is up for interpretation." so this ability uses the confines of grammar to manage itself. For instance! You can amplify the strength of someone's heartbeat. You cannot, however, amplify the not-brokenness of someone's bones or how much someone isn't lying. One of the few instances where it's OK to suddenly change what something can do is if it has some connection to what it could originally do, or it's in some way said that the thing operating the magic was still developing (for instance, a dragonet that could once only breathe smoke and sparks can now breathe fire), or if part of the plot is the thing operating the magic learning to do this new ability.
I will forever call brandon sanderson brando sando....
Sorry for the epicly long comment that nobody's actually gonna read! It was a long video! I had a lot to say!
The movie is so bad he had to show himself to truly show his disappointment.
The thing that bothered me the most about this movie: THE COFFEE GUY
The one worker who offhandedly wished for a cup of coffee
He had to give up the thing the most important to him, FOR A CUP OF COFFEE
also, he wouldnt know to renounce his wish, because he didnt know it was the stone. There is no way everyone renounced their wish.
There is deleted scene where the coffee guy comes home and finds his cat dead. Was the coffee worth it you MONSTER!!!!
@@robertstevenwilson3349 If it's not in the movie, it doesn't matter.
@@deathsdoor07 It was a joke. Hahaha 🤣 there is no deleted scene with a dead cat.
Maybe Bruce Wayne wished to go and see a movie, and his parents were taken as the price.
@@peytonmac1131 That is now cannon in the DCEU, Batman killed his own parents with his wish... Wow, now that Martha scene makes total sense.
I always thought the moral was “no-one’s perfect, not everyone is gonna get what they want and that’s ok”
You could also have mentioned (if you agree with me, that is) that the restaurant scene in The Dark Knight is the film's Inciting Incident. Look at Bruce. It is there that he realizes Harvey is Gotham's new "symbol of hope", which is what he has been striving for all along, and what crashes and ends in the climax where Bruce ends up as The Dark Knight instead of retiring Batman.
I thought she asked about Diana's love life because she was flirting... And that would've been a far more interesting movie... what a waste
right? that’s where i thought it was going and was so disappointed and bored once i realized it wasn’t.
I was fully convinced Barbara had a crush on Diana and wanted to see where it went... I still want to know where that was going
Ah, modern life where two people of the same sex can no longer have platonic relationships because obviously they are gay.
God same. I thought Barbra was an awkward lesbian. What a waste indeed
@@kitchensinkchronicles3272 Ah, so far has society sunk low we hook random strangers together.
This movie said "Don't try to be more than you are, you can't handle it. Some people were made to be better, and you're not them."
Well put
That is exactly the message. Very well said.
Exactly. 👏🏼
Lovely
No it said "don't use magic to cheat"-- Cheetah didn't do anything the rock did all the work
30:09 I was considering writing a story like this. It starts off jovial, but then it turns grim. The victory isn't even a triumph, it's setting back the villain temporarily.
I think the difference is if I started writing this jovial adventure, and it becomes immediately real to the characters when they realize the danger of what they signed up for, before ultimately failing, that would be the goal from the start. I'm not conflicted on what I'd want the story to be, because whenever I have another idea, I just write it down somewhere else.
I'm just reminded that while shifting the tone of a story isn't bad by itself, it needs to be thought out and intentional. A tone shift because the director wants to say "predators are bad" is different than "We'll be home by Christmas"
I love your empathy for that 14 year old girl. As someone who's been there, thank you for caring.
The moral of this movie literally is, "Ambition is evil, tear other women down to teach them a lesson."
Isn't it a defense of movies that there are no morals just mindless fun?
@@midwings00 There’s no such thing as “mindless fun”. Everything has a billion strings attached which can affect the audience in any number of ways.
So that is the reason why his movie resonated with feminists so much. It tries to look and sound like it is doing something noble, but the real motivation as you so aptly summarised is: "Ambition is evil, tear other women down to teach them a lesson."
I feel like how probably Neo did in the first Matrix when he started seeing that everything is made of code.
@@midwings00 Sure... If that's true.
If a movie DOES try to teach a moral and bungles it, or just has unfortunate implications, then saying it is 'mindless fun' is not true, nor does it address the issue.
@@AlyxDG Michael Bay transformers would like a word with you
Is anyone gonna mention how horrified Steve would've been flying through the fireworks considering _he died as his own firework??_
Besides the fact of how dangerous that would be, how easily that could've damaged the plane, yours is a great point. It's flying through flack on both the literal and emotional level.
This film was so dumb, it was hard to stay with it to the end. And Wonder Woman's one of my all-time favorite superheroes.
Have a feeling half the mistakes we think were unintentional actually weren't. Romanticism accounts for a lot of it, but the way identity politics has infected everything these days, bad writing doesn't seem to explain the half that's completely in keeping with that upside-down propagandist agenda.
I miss when we weren't so victim-oriented. I miss actual diversity and diversity of thought. I miss pluralism and cooperation and collective enterprise.This new mediocrity just doesn't cut it. It's neither liberal, nor inviting, neither forgiving, nor logical, neither empowering, nor inspiring.
Yeah, flying through flack in a jet makes no sense, not functionally, nor for our characters. Might be incredibly fun, but the physical risk is just too dumb to contemplate.
Fireworks aren't flak and would only be an issue if they got into the intake, but it's an unwise idea. What's hysterical is that what they're flying is an F-111 Aardvark, which has a landing speed of 115 knots. This is on the lower end of how slow it could fly. Even if they tried REALLY hard, they wouldn't be able to stop & admire the fireworks because they'd just be blurs of color.
yeah, I know DC is all about visuals but a plane flying throught fireworks? cmon
@@flygirl6048
I was wondering that too.
I'm not a expert about planes especially military grade ones but how the fuck was it flying so slowly into the fireworks?
Also, depending on the firework, it usually erupts at 50-150m (160-500ft). Why would they fly so low in the first place?
When I rewatched this, the beginning skit had me flabbergasted. It was literally so accurate to the end of Wonder Woman 1984.