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I agreeded i mean Nier Automata is like Darkest Dungeon is to Fear and Hunger The dark stuff is there on DD but Fear and Hunger goes way deeper in the dark stuff While the first nier is a tragic, Drakengard is a tragedy
Used to skip all the cutscenes when I was younger because I wanted to play the game, not watch a movie. Stopped doing it in my late teens because I wanted to experience the story (also because stories in games actually got _good_ enough to pay attention to), and now I'm pushing 40 I wish more cut scenes were skippable (especially on a second playthrough) because I don't have the time or patience to sit through 8 hours of cutscenes interspersed with a few minutes of gameplay here and there before a game will let me actually play the game.
I'm a little confused about the entire section of this review that's dedicated to discussing auto-saves, considering when you select "New Game" it tells you *"This game does not support auto-save"* and you have to acknowledge the warning to start playing. I never thought of the boss battle checkpoints as auto-saves.
I think the complaint is that it does SAVE, so if you screw up, you can't just go back to an earlier world state to try again, there are consequences for the failure, in that your body has all the chips on it, and you have to go get them back. That said, in Route C, this is no longer the case, and if you die, you die, same as with the Prologue, and for the same reason, the Bunker can't get to you, so if you die there, the 2B/9S you're playing as ends.
It makes sense to me. You get a checkpoint while you're in the battle, but then afterward you might die and have to still do the battle all over again. It's a bad system.
In the... 'defense?' of 2B and the Themian Paradox... Yoko Toro DID 'just tell us' xD. His response as to why 2B was as she is when directly questioned was a bluntly honest 'I just really like girls' IDK if that's BETTER or worse honestly... but it is an unusually honest response.
@@DeaDiabola I think I prefer the honestly really... I don't personally actually have any qualms with people like... having sex drives. It's oddly American to be overly 'worried' about people finding attractive things attractive. I feel like the urge to HIDE it probably is worse and potentially leads to problematic psychology more than just being honest about stuff
@@lenajohnson6179 if you're not ashamed about your interests and aren't trying to make excuses for having a sexy character, yeah I'd say that's better. If someone wants to make a sexy character then they can. It helps when they also have good writing around them though, that's always a positive.
Although I agree that being honest in this regard is better than being disingenuous about one's sex drive, its this very fact that kind of makes me more upset about the story telling and the game it self. Because its trying to appeal to the 'being real' angle while also turning around and trying to pontificate about philosophers and existentialism and shit, not that a story (or a person) can't have both but Nier Automata doesn't integrate their sexualization with their philosophy or at the very least they are incongruent to each other, they attempt to have philosophy with a somber and self serious plot line and then also attempt to act like a horny teenager but are being 'real' about it. I just wish they kind of picked a lane, or made it so there was more synchronicity between the two. I think more so than any story beats, its a tone thing for me. The world is bleak, the story is bleak, the characters are bleak and sad, and it just feels wrong to sexualize a character in this context and it makes me ask if the audience is suppose to be existential and sad OR if they are suppose to be horny... I think its both? I guess? p.s. something about this game makes me rant, I apologize, but I tried really hard to like the game too (but I really didn't)
I think one issue with automata is that, with games from this franchise/developer, people really don't want to reveal spoilers. But they love the games and want other people to play it. So you've got a bunch of people playing the kind of game they won't actually enjoy because they don't know anything specific about it, but everyone says it's incredible. And yeah, it's incredible, to people who like this kind of game. I love the hell out of it but I'm careful recommending it to other people. You really don't want to spoil ~anything~ in a game that people have to play twice before they start to see the really cool shit.
It's exactly the same with games from the SoulsBorne series that are only marketed for being 'Hard' when there is in fact much more reasons to like or not these games than being hard.
Yea I'm gonna be honest I didn't have the patience to play through the same areas of the game for another 8 hours just to progress the story. Idk who thought that hard programming in essentially losing your save file half way through the game was a good gameplay mechanic but I was not here for it lol.
Sorry but there's not really anything to spoil here, to anyone that has consumed any of the media this videogame copies to a letter, like Bladerunner, 1984, hell even Ghost in the Shell or Akira, this game is not very good at anything besides being a kinda decent but not better than the source, amalgamation of, well its source materials. Fun for anyone without a background in any Cyberpunk art whatsoever, but still pretty average story wise, only in music and maybe gameplay is it more than decent. A game that does everything better and also copies a variety of sources but actually uses them as central parts of its story without looking like a sticker album, is Signalis, play that game, it'll be good for your soul.
late here but how would you actually describe the nier automata story and gameplay? i'm one of those people that has been incredibly curious about it, but the adhd makes it REALLY hard to stick to games unless im 100% invested and i don't exactly have the spare funds to see if it'll catch me. even persona 5 as much as i love it is a game i struggle to play through without long amounts of time in between play sessions :/
@@greatruloit is one of the only videogames that does deconstruction well at all. It is also one of the only video games that tries to do philosophy instead of just referencing ideas. I think that is what makes it unique in the space.
I’ve played a great deal of games that get heaps of praise that I didn’t really enjoy. I say this because the same is said of randos on the internet. For one, games are expensive. That alone is reason enough for me to give games, especially ones bought at full price, more chances than I should. For another, I’ve played a decent amount of games that took time to click with me. You also almost feel like you’re obliged to when everyone’s fawning over a game. You get the impression that if you’re like the only person who doesn’t think the game’s a 10/10, you must be the one who is missing something, and maybe if you get further, you’ll see what everyone else sees and fall equally in love with it.
She clearly didn't tho. She hasn't finished the second part of the game probably. I mean, it's clear that she talks about the plot from the perspective of someone who hasn't played the three endings. She thinks there is an A2 playthrough story part... or the whole "why they teach emotions" part. Basically more than half of the video makes sense only to her because she hasn't finished the game. She could have just gone "I dropped the game because it's boring" but she says nosense stuff to make a large essay... Idk.
@@bestgrill9647 ....and this is the reason why people feel the need to get all the endings and trophies for a game they don't like. As if spending hours, completing at least 2 playthroughs somehow means their opinion is invalid. If a game can't draw you in after 2 playthroughs, you probably aren't going to at all. I like NieR, I've played it multiple times and still agree with all the points made in this video. But, I can separate the fact that I don't care about the design not being amazing and can easily not indulge in sleezy old man behaviour and so am still able to enjoy the game, but it would take a lot more effort for others to get over and are under no obligation to do so just because I could.
@@looc_96 Okay, you feel the need to 100% your games because I post criticism of poorly made videoessays on YT. Makes sense. Dude, I haven't written anywhere that "feeling that the game is boring and quitting" is bad. I've just said that half of this videoessay is BS because she brings up points which makes no sense to anyone who has finished the game. The game replies to her arguments by itself, but she hasn't played the parts in which it does. she makes no sense for 20 minutes straight. Simply don't make "detailed" videoessays on YT of something you don't know about (or do it if you don't care about quality). Just say "I've quitted it's boring lol" or whatever.
You said something about 2b getting all emotional about 9s about to die despite only knowing him for 10 minutes. That's not the case. She's trying not to get attached to him because she constantly keep having to kill him over and over. She cares for him ALOT but she's trying not to because the same thing always happens. He ends up being too curious and finds out yorha secret and she kills him. She's tired of having to kill the person she cares about.
Yeah, I couldn't really tell from watching this video if MertKayKay knows this and is just narrating her (and other people's) feelings when they first see the scene, or if she never actually learned the story. Because there are other lines in the video that suggested she knew about the repeating nature of the narrative. So I don't know.
@Deschain19 it really don't seem like she learned the story. After she said she usually skip cutscenes I kinda didn't give anything she said much merit. She was more focused on how the robots, backgrounds and 2b attire looked.
@@Bogustice Exactly... And most likely her hair color has to do with her shallow review. It is just that these people tend to have a certain hair color like pink, green or blue...
@@MertKayKay but can you respond to the comment that actually took time and knowledge to write that contradicts one of your points in the video or nah?
I love the sad but beautiful ruined desolate world… the slow empathy I built for the robots…. The combat really fit my tastes and experience personally
I feel that not looking at side content for the series makes sense. Unfortunately with how far Yoko Taro went out of his way to explain things in the major games within the confines of “dlc” does do a disservice to series as a whole. For instance, “Emotions are prohibited” is 2B’s personal mantra because of the number of times she’s killed 9S over and over, hoping that as long as she keeps herself from feeling anything for him means that one day it won’t feel like anything as she continuously does it. Obviously it doesn’t work, hence the clenched fist when he explains in the prologue that he doesn’t remember who she is because he didn’t have time to upload BOTH of their memories to the bunker, making him “forget her.” But you don’t know any of these things, in fact the game makes you think they met in the prologue even though she’s already killed dozens of Nines by the time the game starts. There’s so much non-game content that explains every single the characters do in the game that you’ll never understand unless you find the time to do deep dives on the weekends and looking at the CZcams creators who compile the information like EruptionFang, or Mr. Clemps, and even ValkyrieAurora has retired from exhaustion for her own mental health after making so many videos. I feel that the DrakeNier series is catered to a very specific niche, which is an accurate series. Unfortunately, you just don’t fit the niche, which sucks, but hey can’t be helped y’know? All of your points are well-made. I disagree with a couple only because I’ve been hyper fixated on this series since 2018. But its all about personal taste, and also downtime. As for your thoughts on Yoko Taro, just wait until you hear about the characters of Drakengard 1. Yoko Taro has a creative, yet disturbing mind.
The only points I WILL make in defense of the last section are A: Automata isn't trying to be tongue in cheek about 2B. There's no actual justification. Yoko Taro openly admitted that her design was sexualized bc he likes ass. It doesn't EXCUSE the perversion, but he isn't trying to like. Make it nuanced or be tongue in cheek. It's just supposed to be inexcusable eye candy. The FANDOM tries to excuse it. And B: 9s does lose his pants. I blew him up in the desert and he lost his pants. I fought an orgy of robots and the children conceived as a result with nothing but an overcoat, socks, and Fruit of the Loom skintight bootybriefs on.
It would have been more noticeable if he hat a T back leotard as well. If you give the audience some jailbait shota eyecandy, might as well go full on degenerate and own up to it.
@@_Xds_ when did I say it NEEDED a justification? That's what I'm saying is annoying. Fans are constantly trying to make stupid justifications for why 2B has a fat ass and trying to pretend she isn't just meant to be eye candy. When the creator has come out and stated she's JUST supposed to be perverted eye candy. Because he has a thing for ass.
@@rain4825 "uhhh degenerate, i dont like it", well, what a shame, still, i dont think it is cool to tell someone to be even more degenerate to fullfil what you think a degenerate would be, just to hate this type of person even more after.
Nier Automata is a very special game to me personally and helped me get through a tough time in my life,very sorry you couldn't get into it and I love your vids especially the silence of the lambs and calling out bloober teams writing and storytelling
When you get to the end, the 'The End of Yorha' ending, just the people saying "I was just like you, DONT GIVE UP!" and other bits of encouragement, it just feels good. The idea that the game itself not only the characters in game, but other players are telling you to never give up and keep pushing through, even though it may be hard, you can still push through, even when the weight of the world is pushing down on you, you have people who will be there to help you. That's what I took away, anyway I'm happy you have a connection to it!
@@MertKayKay if you don't have a firm grasp on a subject, as you openly admit, perhaps it is not a project worthy of your critique and effort. Academically, within the study of philosophy, it is required one either does the required research and appeal to the historicism surrounding a given subject, or leave a given matter as it is. You dont understand the various nuances of philosophy. You have said as much, yourself, in this video. Aesthetics is the philosophical sub-discipline under which criticism falls. However, you are not appealing to the historicism and contemporary theoretical methods of critical analysis which it entails. So. your content would be described as 'entertainment' by academic standards. Not trying to be shady, these are simply facts of the matter. It is your right to express your opinions. But know there is a deeply philosophical problem in describing the phenomenology of a given artform or media without having delved a bit deeper into its subject matter. Best wishes. Hope you'll take a chance and study aesthetics. It is really fun, if you can manage the dense texts. Your reviews would only be all the more refined by what you might learn. I honestly hope this doesnt seem too harsh. My intention is not to make you feel bad.
I just really quickly wanted to say the point of the ending is not the fact that you are sacrificing your data to save the world the point is that you are doing it to help another player. From a purely mechanical standpoint you are unable to do it without online turned on ( I know I was unable to do it the first time around). And also the reason why the ending felt do emotional to me and so many other people is because it is your choice to help another person out there by sacrificing your data. I could go into more detail why I personally think this is a great game as well as give my counter argument to your other points but I don't think anybody is going to read this so yeah ...
@@qwandary I honestly recommend just watching a playthrough or playing it yourself as explaining everything might be kinda confusing and I think the game is worth playing.But basically in ending e you basically fight the end credits in a plane mini game and as time goes on and you keep losing you get a message that somebody wants to help you and then you get this swarm of planes helping you and basically by sacrificing your data you also become one of those planes and some person receives that plane to help them the way others helped you.
@@qwandary it's just a very poorly implemented gimmick where you lose your save file in order to watch the true ending but it doesn't matter because by the time you finish this, you'll be 50-80 hours in and wondering why it didnt end 60 hours ago. 😅
The aliens were absolutely not a red herring. Them being killed by their own creation was unbeknownst to Commander White. YoRHa units have emotions and character quirks because they are designed from a human template, they're not just AI. Most notably, A2 has Kainé's memories and characteristics. Also, 2B's designer, not Yoko, specifically avoided enlarging her chest area and emphasize her bottom half. Think what you will of her design, but there is meaning beyond just cosplayability. Lastly, the machine lifeforms don't need to have complex movesets. The point is that they are indeed very limited compared to the androids. Sure, fighting them can become a bit auto-piloty, but this game isn't supposed to be Ninja Gaiden with androids. It's about the story and philosophical questions. It's totally fine if you don't like the game, I just feel you unfairly brushed many aspects aside as "just self-indulgent".
Emphasizing 2bs ass instead of her boobs doesn’t change the eye-candy focused design of her character lol. It’s a good design unlike other sexualized game characters but that doesn’t change its intentions.
I don't know anymore what you guys want to end up implying. I think it is sincerely respectable that you like and love the game. But for the sake of the medium and also for the sake of public thinking, it seems to me that we have to be critical. The philosophy of this game is not much more than a hoax. It is very vague and condescending, lacking in nuance, very unintelligent.
@@luisapaza317 it's understated is what it is. Which is the best part, for me personally. If you keep digging into it and really think, the themes come more and more alive. But you don't actually need to, because the game delvers its overall message very well through gameplay and music alone, even if you never look any deeper. I honestly have no idea where you got condescending from.
the game doesn't think it's subtle about the philosophical references... it's very on the nose, taking certain propositions to their logical ends and poking fun at them or exploring them in a very literal way. I get the game may not be for you and that's perfectly fine but it feels to me like there's many points that went over your head. and well that's also fine, but some criticisms seem really out of place to me
I know this comment is old AF but I felt like responding anyway. Personally the on-the-nose nature of the philosophy references is what turned me off to a lot of the game's storytelling methods. It felt less like I was witnessing the story of these machines and androids and the tragedy that would eventually come to pass and more like a professor was scolding me on an assignment that I was trying to ask questions on like I was somehow missing the point of the discussion. The way the story is written and it's themes presented often feels like the authors don't actually trust the audience to use their eyes. Even worse, when there ARE moments that aren't cramming half baked Nietzsche down your throat via walls of dialogue that aren't even attached to voice acting, the game will play an interesting scene that seems to be setup for something important later, only to never bring it up again. Like I as the player was the weirdo for witnessing that. A2 and the second half of the game in particular suffer from this, but the first half is still littered with it
Your suggestion that 2B be blind to the robot's humanity was already done in the 1st Nier. This game was focused on the android's denial of the robots' humanity. So it was important that the Main characters SEE the humanity but turn a blind eye to it to avoid questioning their own humanity. Plus anyone who has played the first game would already be in the know that the faceless creatures being killed in large numbers were likely sentient so it would be a waste of a reveal to be subtle about it.
its ok, not everyone can sit back, relax and enjoy something from a different culture than their own and appreciate it for what it is. i bet she would really hate death stranding.
I've been willing to forgive its faults for some incredible moments. The "Amnesia" sidequest, the beginning of route C, the general chilling feeling of the post-apocalyptic world, the mystery of Yorha, the Amusement Park and its music and the ending. I think its "philosophy" isn't meant to say that "wow robots are alive what does it mean to be alive what makes u different" and all that shit. I think it's a curveball for the real meaning. Not to sound edgy referencing Nietzche, but the game clearly does. "God is dead", and without God (a universal meaning) there is no purpose. The humans are God, and dhe androids are us. Humans are dead (we stopped believing in God) and Androids are left with nothing to purpose to continue (Nihilism). In the final ending, they get a chance to break free from the shackles and find their own meaning and reason to exist. To become "übermench" , which the robots in the factory kept chanting that word all over again during the religious segment. It's kind of confusing at first but when you stop to think on what it means and how absolutely well done this metaphor is, you can't help but smile. And of course, 2B's ass.. But other than that, I also found the game annoying at times. It has some very bad design choices. I'd say it isn't a good/fun videogame. But a great piece of interactive fiction.
@@saulcraft200 Seems to me you can't get past your own ideological biases. Sadly common these days, but there you go. Everything Yoko Taro has made since 2003 is based on empathy with the plight of characters trapped within fictional constructs, and specifically given free agency how would, and could they react to this "reality". Caim in Drakengard was a psychopath because that's a rational response to a world where mass murder is only form of interaction and the currency of achievement. Automata is the culmination of years of meta-fictional exploration of this theme where every element is the product of consideration and consequence of this core concept.
@@inxe8 There's no ideological backbone to my statement. If you had any reading comprehension you'd understand that what I meant was that the game lacks any subtlety and name drops concepts and people that the writer doesn't have an understanding of to appear deep. Your point about characters dealing with the existential realization that their world is based on a lie also doesn't make sense. The 3 plot twist that happen over the course of the game don't change anything. The aliens were dead all along, they just keep fighting the robots. Humanity was extinct, the androids just continue to kill robots. The robots had a convoluted and braindead plan to evolve by fighting adroids, guess we'll just keep fighting the robots. The only change in the world that happens at all is that the robots kill everyone except 9s and 1a, just to shoehorn an unengaging revenge plot. I'm not even gonna get into the whole AI ethics theme throughout the game, the exploration of it was about as competent as Detroit:BH, so not at all.
@@saulcraft200 You clearly weren't paying attention because throughout its made clear that the machines are simply aping human behaviours and philosophies without understanding any part of them. This should be obvious given how we see them copying human biological functions and social structures blindly. Without that basic insight how do you think they are going to handle human politics and philosophy? Taking umbrage at the usage of the names of philosophical figures makes no sense when its clearly defined as being purely aesthetic both diegetically and as a game design element. What's worse is that you seemingly fail to understand the things you see as "plot twists" aren't that because they are all part of an established storyline. Its a sequel to a 2010 game the main plot point of which is the extinction of humanity inadvertently at the hands of the player/protagonist. Similarly, the humanity of things that appear superficially inhuman is the core message of that game. That they aren't treated as major revelations in Automata is because they are already canon! Yoko is far more interested in what it takes to break the ideoilogical cycles that these characters find themselves in. The philosophical question posed by 2B at the outset is whether she will ever have the opportunity to kill God. A Chekov's gun that gets fire in the final ending where we -the players- are encouraged to collectively defeat the credit roll.
@@inxe8 @inxe8 I pointed out that I didn't want to derail into a discussion of AI in automata, but whatever. It's done incredibly poorly and has been done to death. Why are the robots copying human behavior? According to the ending it's because the machines ,who are already superior in intellect to humanity, wanted to evolve by copying humanity... uh huh. Second point. If the intent is to show that the machines are getting into philosophy it just further shows how the writer had no clue what he was getting into. It ignores the continuity of western philosophy. How do the machines understand dialectic materialism and Marxism if they haven't even explored the core axioms of logic? The themes of the game also don't delve into anything those three philosophers wrote, so what's the point of even having them? Another thing is religion. The machines have 0 inclinations of any elder worship, shamanism or animism, their religious beliefs instantly go to orthodox Abrahamic beliefs because all of this is just done for aesthetics, the writer clearly included these aspects of pop philosophy/religion because he thought they sounded cool. So I guess the game's story falls on it's head without the context of the previous games, even though the developer said that they didn't need to be played to understand the story. Nothing takes to break the ideological cycles in the game, they see something that flips their worldview on it's head and they just keep killing robots. It took their entire base getting blown for them to go "maybe we shouldn't just kill robots" and then they do what? They keep killing robots.
Admittedly, unless you have a background degree in Yoko Taro's whacky story universe, Automata can be pretty strange as a storytelling device. But it would be wildly unfair to demand everyone to absorb Drakengards 1+2, Nier and Re: Incarnation, and a number of light novels, plays, manga, and aaaaaaAAAAA in order to "get it". I'm glad you gave it a shot. Also re: the 2Booty - if I remember correctly, Yoko Taro *isn't* the booty lover - the character modeller who actually made her model did. If this tells you anything about Yoko Taro's personality, the man once physically hid in a locker because of threats he got from Drakengard Ending E. He also frustratedly explained in an interview that one of his characters are just gay, and didn't shy away from it. He's an odd duck, but he's generally a well meaning fella.
He also gave us one of the best representations of a trans / intersex character i've seen in videogames, and for that i really admire the way he sticks to just making what he likes
I appreciate you taking the time to make this video. It's clear that you've made an honest effort to try something and persevering to the end in spite of it not bringing you much personal enjoyment. However, I must acknowledge that there were several points you made that suggested you pedantically focused your critique on the inclusion of the overused tropes and the trademark «weirdness» typical of Nier, and in doing so, accidentally missed the key themes under the surface. For instance, the reveal of the true names of the bosses in your playthrough as 9S is not something done arbitrarily. Rather, it can be interpreted that 9S is driven to discover their names due to his curiosity and enhanced scanning abilities. Furthermore, showing names of certain philosophers during a second helps you contextualise and understand themes that you may have missed in your first run: The goliath class machines being named Engels and Marx makes sense as they are large factory units (means of production). This exemplifies Automata's parallels to WW2 (taking place in a year ending with -45, pearl harbour descent mission) and makes it all the more interesting what the true will of Yorha really is when you consider the flight unit has the same designation as a ww2 advanced nazi bomber (ho229), the helmets with in the second half of the game look eerily similar to german stahlhelms, and they have a distinctive salute with accompanying greeting («glory to mankind»). With that context, the main conflict can be seen as being between Fascism and Communism/Marxism. This framing can be viewed as foreshadowing later events as well as the true faces hidden behind Yorha and the machine network. The real life Simone (Beauvoir) advocated for women to determine their self-worth not by their attractiveness to men, but by their own virtues. The machine Simone showed us what happens when we dedicate our existence to please the gaze of a potential love interest: rejection, followed by madness and a sense of meaninglessness. The two final bosses in the Tower (Ko-shi and Ro-shi) have the Japanese names of Confucius and Laozi, founders of the philosophies of Confucianism and Taoism, respectively. Those two machines later fuse together to form a Yin-Yang: a symbol depicting the harmony between the female Yin and make Yang. It's interesting how the female A2 fights the Yin Confucius machine. Confucianism values ideas of loyalty, honour and conscientiousness-in contrast to A2's defection and overall apathetic, free-spirited personality. The male android-9S-gets to fight the Yang Laozi machine. Unsurprisingly, there's another philosophical contrast here. The destructive, misguided, and impulsive revenge quest 9S has embarked on is at odds with Laozi's Taoist philosophy of peaceful harmonic living, non-interventionism in nature, and taking the calm approach to situations. These opposites facing each other and synthesising both physically as well as metaphorically is further demonstrated by the appropriately named track that plays in the background, «Bipolar Nightmare», where the melody keeps shifting back and forth from a darker, more aggressive tone with powerful brass instruments and rapid strings to a lighter one, with the choir vocalising the same hauntingly beautiful motif present in «Vague Hope» while a piano taps along in a high octave. I hope my little wall of text piqued your curiousity in the subtle themes buried beneath the surface of Nier. The game is quite short and has a low budget but is rifled with interesting details and foreshadowing-hence why there are multiple playthroughs. If you're willing to give it another shot, I'd recommend reading some FAQ or game guide on Reddit or something. There are multiple things you can do to reduce the frustration you may have experienced with gameplay. For instance, the Souls-like save system can be foregone completely by simply saving often, and then upon death quitting and rebooting the game to reload to your latest save in order to keep all your items and chips.
@@rustygear447 When you make a game, you don't just put random things, and even if they do, you can't say that all that was coincidental. Sometimes the Toast might have a face put on there by someone.
Very well said comment. If you give this game the time and appreciation to understand all it has to offer, you will realize what a masterpiece it is. Watching other analysis videos are very good at helping to do that.
I’ll be honest, this game is what got me out of the worst spiral of depression in my life, and is probably what saved my life. Tho I’ll just have to agree to disagree with you on a lot things you said, since I got a completely different experience out of it. I will say that there a lot of things about it that aren’t for everyone, but to me personally, I absolutely love it.
@@vicentegeonix okay you came crying to me dumbass 8 months after I watched the video and I'm in the majority that think it's a masterpiece now go on with you're boring ass day
39:00 9S dying: "She's known him for less than an hour as well" By this point in the game she has known him for years, see him die many times, and has been force to kill him with her own hands some 58 times This plot line was hinted at right after said scene, when 2B and 9S resurrect back at the bunker and 2B has memories of the boss fight, but 9S only has memories up to the point where they first met Which also ties into your misunderstanding of 'emotions are not permitted' 2B has grown very close to 9S over the years and is trying to distance herself, because she knows that eventually she is going to be forced to kill him again
Nier automata is a top game for me. Although, I didn't start to love it until the ending chapter/9s/A2 route. It's interesting to read others say that it helped them through depression. The game actually made me have an existential crisis. Lol!! I was sad for weeks after playing.
Just watched a 6 hour long video that details all of NieR story(not just NieR:Automata, which only took like the last ~1 hour of the video) and was really immersed by it, so I should see the oposing view
Not for nothing but the way you described 2B's constant booty shots and the way the game tries very hard to make the player feel okay for looking made me think of Pop Culture Detective's 'Born Sexy Yesterday' vid. The idea of 'the perfect woman' who doesn't mind being sexualised because she's unaware/unable to care/culturally different/too innocent to know better/etc, in this case exemplified by 2B's emotional repression schtick. Never played NieR myself but it is fascinating to see that trope apparently popping up here.
That's an extremely apt comparison - I remember watching that video years ago! There's a certain ignorance to 2B that I think falls into that category so much, like we're taking advantage of her inability to understand fetishisation
@@MertKayKay I believe that there is an in-universe reason why 2B dresses more revealing manner. It requires reading a bit between the lines. Though I am gay as caberet, I personally would prefer it if she was given a pair of shorts and that the booty shots would calm down. Either calm down or actually actively tie it into the plot.
@@PixelHeroViish as with a lot of discussions like this, its a doyalist and a watsonian perspective being unable to understand each other. you're defending it from a watsonian "in story" perspective, where the story can justify itself. most people here are talking in a doyalist "authorial intent" perspective, where they gave her a nice ass because sex sells
I really don’t know how you can not appreciate this game. It is one of a kind. I never played a game with so many different game types in one title. The store is such a mind fuck as you play the game to find out that nothing is what it seems. The music was something to say that it was a story of it own . Yeah I can see if you are not in to this type of game but you have to give it to this game because it something different than ever other game in world with so many same things with different skins out there
You say that the save system is unreliable. It sounds like you relied too much on autosaves. The game reminds you multiple times that it doesn't have an autosave feature. You cannot fault the game for you forgetting to save. Granted, the save system can get you stuck on a difficult part with no way to retreat to buy healing, that I think is true. You say that there is a plot hole with android emotion, but it is indeed explained. SPOILERS! The YoRHa androids were not meant to have emotion, hence 2B's catchphrase, but they developed them unintentionally, because the higher-ups used machine cores as a cheap, mass produced basis for their black boxes. You cite the scene where 2B gets extremely emotional over 9S being hurt as anime bullshit, but this is also explained. SPOILERS! 2B has known and worked with 9s for a long time before this mission, but he doesn't remember because his memory was reset from a backup. There is more to it but let's keep it brief.
I feel like a lot of the reasoning in this video are back explaining from conclusions youve already made. "the fact that robots are acting human is so obvious", hence bad, its like yeah, because the point is about why is 2b ignoring it when its so explicit and the fact that the robots are emulating what they've seen further murkies the water. Still, its not trying to be a reveal nor would it be more interesting for it.
I agree. I think the only story moment that was really meant to be a big reveal was that 2B is really 2E. The obvious dissonance between the characters explanations and what the player is seeing was the point. Another example is the "Emotions are prohibited" line from 2B. As was said in the video, every other android you meet obviously shows emotion and no one cares. The point being to nudge the player and make them wonder why 2B is specifically trying to emotionally distance herself from 9S.
It's interesting that you mentioned that you'd prefer it if 2B's story left you in the dark about the humanity displayed by the machines, so that it could be more impactful when you replay those sections with 9S, who is more empathetic. The original Nier actually does this with the slight twist that the character who has been able to understand the screams and pleas of the enemies you kill has been the most cruel, hateful and sadistic towards them throughout the story. Nier also felt a bit less concerned with animé tropes to me (though part of that was down to the localisation changing the main character from a typical anime protagonist into an early-middle aged man with a face that has all the right bits to be handsome, but not in that arrangement, and a permanent scowl. Sadly, Daddy Nier isn't an option for the remake and you have to play Twink Nier, who isn't as interesting but admittedly there have been so many Daddy protagonists looking to rescue or protect a daughter, son or surrogate daughter in a post apocalyptic/fantasy setting since that game came out that playing as that version of the character probably isn't nearly as cool for a modern audience). There are some genre tropes present but they're generally there to set the player up for a cruel subversion. I've heard that the remake does some work to upgrade the mechanics, so if you are motivated to check it out for comparison to Automata I would be interested to hear your thoughts (though given your experience with the latter I can understand if you don't want to play it, especially in light of the repeated gameplay sections for different endings, the requirement to collect and fully level up every weapon to see the final ending and the part of the game where it becomes a text adventure because you got drugged by a possessed tree and they didn't have the budget needed to actually have you experience the little side adventure , so rather than cut the content completely the developers decided that reading about it and solving a simple quiz about the collection of short stories you just read was a suitable compromise).
Watching this again, I would argue a major reason the game's narrative fell flat for you is that the game does a very poor job of explaining many of the paramount details needed for the narrative to work. Been watching your videos for a while and you prudently review the game as is without outside context, which is reasonably. For many, this was the first Nier/Drakengard game they played like myself. Since this is the final game currently in the Nier and Drakengard series you need a novel size amount of information to fully grasp many of the elements here. Even the updated version of Replicant leaves out a lot. Like you I also agree that a game shouldn't require this to appreciate the story. Especially with this franchise where there's novels, plays, and short stories that flesh necessary parts out. I sought out a lot of information about this franchise after completing it but I didn't realize how much story was still needed to fully understand this game until watching the Unabridged from EruptionFang. Which is a 6 hour video that just shows the absurd amount of stuff you need to know. It's definitely one of those franchises that you need to dedicate a lot of effort into but even then that's asking a lot when the first impression doesn't impress.
A lot of people in the comments have indeed been filling me in on a lot of external info (to the game) that would have been so informative going into it. it's a strange choice to have so much info assigned to orbital pieces of media, and a risky one, but a respectable one
The game tells you it uses manual saving. This is reinforced multiple times throughout the game and it only uses autosave for a few select moments. Your problem is that you relied on autosave moments WAY TOO MUCH and forgot how the game actually works.
I always check comments in videos like this because I’ll pretty quickly be able to tell how much thought the video puts into its argument. Good to know it’s not much.
@@mr.stuffdoer8483the above commenter clearly didn't watch the whole video. She explains why she struggled with it, the rules it flipped and how she attempted off-line to concentrate better. Relying on comments of people who may not have even consumed the media is part of the problem of the internet today.
The entire Yoko Taro catalogue seems to have a "fuck you player" vibe, especially when you consider what's required to see all the endings in a game like Drakengard. No surprise you didn't like Nier, it doesn't set itself up for broad appeal from a gameplay perspective. And yeah, 9S' shorts are just... no.
So this video popped in my recommendations as I was becoming interested in NieR: Automata, and I decided to play before seeing this video. Now that I have played it, I feel I can give my two cents on my own experience. I think I can say this video's a really good example on why the game works so well for some people who are willing to look past the flaws of it to find the greatness in it, and why it falls flat for others. I'm not a critical person when it comes to media by a long shot, I personally loved the experience. I don't ask for much, all I care is that it tries to send a good message and can make me feel something whether it's scared, sad, elated, I'll hopefully enjoy it. So, of course this take isn't the most valuable in terms of critical discussion with regard to this game, but I do have stuff I want to say. I think a death sentence to the interest of anyone playing this game would have to be going in with expectations, especially those regarding what topics the game may go over, (unless of course, you've played the other games in the series) The best way to enjoy it in my eyes is to go in with no expectations, no thoughts on what topics it may bring up, just going along with it and building one's own view. Personally I really enjoyed the writing of NieR: Automata, there was something about it that tickled my brain. I liked how the story and gameplay are somewhat designed to hurt the player. NieR: Automata definitely has it's flaws, I don't think any game, no matter how great, can be truly flawless. An example is the gameplay, specifically the combat. Destroying machines feels good but it becomes extremely easy as you get used to the moves the enemies can perform, the only fights I feel were super engaging were some of the bosses, such as Adam's fight in the Copied City. That fight felt truly dynamic. This is another admittedly miniscule example but something that's always bothered me is how much is in the game that can be done after it's beaten through all playthroughs that will not be seen by some players because the game asks if you'd be willing to sacrifice your save data. There are 27 endings, 21 of which are joke endings, 5 are major, and 1 is a DLC ending that is obtained through beating all of the arena fights. Some of these things you really only have a chance of experiencing at Level 99, normally people reach the prompt for save deletion at level 50-65. There are really great things some players probably never get to experience because of that prompt for save deletion. I like the message that sacrificing what you care for to help others so we may all see a happier outcome is a beautiful thing, I love it in fact, but some of these things that are kept from being experienced is absolutely *wild* to me. The DLC ending literally has an entire *music video* featuring a band who collaborated with the game and an actual doll of 2B. The music is beautifully made and the visuals on the video are stunning, and I have a feeling because it's buried so deeply after all that content and a save deletion prompt, few people really get to see it. It's just confusing to me. This is already really long but I will give my take on the designs of the characters. I personally, really enjoy these designs. Not for the blatant "awooga honk honk" appeal, but what can be interpreted from them. The game constantly draws parallels between procreation and the act of killing someone, both of these acts can be seen as somewhat intimate. To love someone enough to continue the cycle of life with them, and to hate someone enough to end their life. I think the outfits, being a mix of mourning aesthetics and a confident show of... well everything, is very fitting for a game that wanted to draw that parallel. Or... y'know, the whole "I just like girls dude" approach works I guess, at least Yoko Taro was honest. I guess I can respect that level of honesty. Some things don't need a real reason to be after all. There's a whole discussion that can be had about the sexualization of female characters in games and where the line should be drawn, but I'm not going to get into that since I don't think I deserve a say as a guy. All I feel I can say is that I'm not above it, I personally don't see a problem in having a cast that looks very attractive or can be called eye candy. It's not realistic of course, but it personally motivates me to look my best, to exercise, take care of myself, and find out what I look good in. I'll never look as good as some video game characters, but I can always look good to myself. My general rule is, "if you're going to make eye candy characters, then don't limit it to the female characters. Guys can be hot too." I was into the characters 9S, Adam, and Eve. That's all I will say. To wrap this up, I think the reason I appreciate NieR a lot is because the eccentric brain behind it all, Yoko Taro continues to tell it's story through many many mediums. There are stageplays, an orchestra concert where a story involving the characters before and after the events of NieR: Automata is told, and many novellas. I can respect that level of creativity, where one will use any medium to tell their crazy-ass stories. Anyway, sorry for the length of this, just wanted to give my own two cents on my experience with this game.
Jesus Christ, you didn't understood a single thing about the history, about 2B and 9S relationship and all the background history and the philosophical tropes about machines, androids, humans and emotions. Did you even finish routes C and D? You didn't mention that. Anyway, It doesn't surprise me you didn't like the game.
I finished the game, all routes and got the platinum trophy (legit, not through using that shop) I didn't like it, I'm just one of those sickos that finishes things no matter how trash they are.
Honestly, this is a fair critique. Nier's storytelling isn't for everyone, and I'm excited to see why it didn't click for you the way it did for many others. E: Okay, about half way through the video, and I have to say, you using any other "A" word but Automata when referencing the title? 10/10 humour, A+, no notes. Keep doing what you're doing. I played this game on Easy, which means that I was able to switch my pod on and just let 'er rip. It took so much pressure off of me to keep track of everything, and I wasn't even streaming or anything, I just have a difficult time keeping track of multiple things in games. I came into the game for the story, and that's what hooked me. As far as 9S's arc goes, I can agree with you that the story could have deviated just a little bit more from when he was alone, but I'm still glad it's there because I adore the layering of the story that comes from it. And really, without his perspective, the rest of the story just...wouldn't make sense, like, at all. I see the emotions that the androids feel, even in their limited capacity, was something rogue in their programming. Remember, this war has been going on for thousands of years, and who knows what any self governing AI has would be capable of? Again, it goes back to theoreticals that can be swept away by the story, but I think that some of the concepts presented are questions that should be explored, you know? I feel like Yoko Taro is that one lead developer and narrative director that Squeenix has that's locked in a basement broom closet somewhere and only let out once every 7 years to unleash his madness and then goes back into his hidey hole. And that's okay! He's been able to bring some really great, unique stories to the art of video game narrative and development because of his perspective. He's always thinking outside the box, but he's certainly not for everyone.
Agreed with all your points in the vid until last section where you said they were trying to create in-universe justification for 2Bs outfit. That literally doesn't happen once in the game, no idea what you're talking about. They don't say anything like "oh 2B has to breathe through her ass" or any stupid shit like that. Whole last section sounds like you're dealing with a bad breakup or something and took it out on a character's design. (I'm not a fan of the game either but you're making me defend it.) You also mentioned at the start of the video that 2B's design was one of the main reasons the game caught your eye in the first place, so I'm doubly not sure what you're talking about.
I didn't play Nier so I will spare everyone including myself from reading walls of text about philosophy or anything of that sorts. I simply recommend that you play Suikoden 1 and 2 once the remasters are released because those were fun JRPGs that did speak to me on a certain level, especially the second games. A friend recommended them to me and they were fun, lots of things to do especially in Suikoden 2. ... ... .... ....... okay I lied I might type a wall of text after all. When it comes to "technically it makes sense in the lore" I find it to be a rather cheap way of explaining why a certain character looks and behaves a certain way that's pretty much fan service. I mean yeah Quiet breathes through her skin but does she really have to put on a show in the helicopter when you ride it? Add to that she has an outfit that covers her from neck to toe, where's the game logic in there? Kojima makes fun games generally but Quiet was not the tragic character that looks like eye candy because of it, however I did enjoy aspects of her story. Miss assassin falls for her target and goes on to fight the good(?) fight despite being captured and tortured...looking back at it Quiet is a sexually provocative simp that wakes up every single day and chooses violence to solve her problems. Another thing about characters looking oddly sexual or more or less feminine if they're guys in Japanese styled video games, well it's something that seems to be a staple in RPGs made in Japan. It's more or less queer coated villains like for example Kuja from Final Fantasy 9...a femboy on his dragon being le big bad surprised me for a moment then I thought about it and it became clear...it's Japan lol. It's an annoying trope for sure.
The creator literally said in no uncertain terms that 2Bs design is specifically because he likes big booty girls. He made her the way she is is literally because that's his thing. He didn't make it for anyone else. Any thermian bullshit is coming straight out of other people's asses, the creator outright said the only justification for 2B being crank bait is because he, alone, is into that and felt like putting it in his game. Everyone else is just huffing copium.
Very true! I saw all of these 'reasonings' in Reddit threads and in Discord discussions and in my own Twitch chat. I wish I'd screenshot them, it would have added far more to this video
9S and 2B are built to be around the same age, but as you say the way they dress and act gives off very different vibes. Made even more poignant that the S-Types are meant to look like they’re younger by being smaller. While all the Male Yorha units who weren’t short and boyish were exterminate.
Also you misunderstood the Aliens bit. The Aliens WERE real, but were wiped out by their Robots who decided they wanted the dead humans to be their Gods instead.
as someone who doesn't mind some things like these you did a pretty good explaining your points and there's no issue with not being able to get into it (it's just a game at the end of the day), and you calling "automata" something different every time made me laugh harder than it should've good vid i always enjoy your content
HELP the entire section about 2B's ass and the way she's built for voyeurism is PRECISELY how i feel about her 💀 I like her design, very much, but then again she's built precisely for that so she's literally doing what she's meant to do. It's refreshing to see someone actually wording this for what it is instead of the usual (and tired) "uhm, ACSHUALLY" that fans love to pull.
Except no one is doing the “uhm actually” when it comes to 2B. From what I can tell from this video, the entire reason she made an entire section of this video about 2B’s ass is because her chat was defending it for lore reasons that don’t exist in the game or it’s universe. And she for some reason thought her chat represented everyone in the NieR community when in actuality most of us have seen the Yoko Taro interview where he was like “I like girls” and barely anyone tries to explain 2B’s sexiness on lore, most will point you to that interview. This video just wasn’t well researched at all and honestly the entire 2B ass section was pain, trying to argue the game “forces” you to look at 2B’s ass when it doesn’t (I’ve played the game multiple times, the game’s camera doesn’t force you to look under her skirt) and she shows scenes like the Simone boss introduction or 2B choking 9S, where most people would clearly be paying attention to what’s going on onscreen, not many are going to be looking at 2B’s ass, nor does the camera focus on it.
I don't think I've ever seen a better example of "I saw something early on that I didn't like and it completely and utterly jaded my view of the entirety of the work" Not only was the entire first 25 minutes of the video simply "art design bad haha let me point out how I don't like it" Like it's fine that you don't like the art design. Not everyone does. But it felt super whiny. If you really felt that way then turn the damn game off. Then with the rest of the points it's like you saw the point, ignored it, and decided to whine about it anyways. It's almost like you saw something other people liked, and simply decided to be contrarian about it. The philosophy argument felt soooooo shallow. "I don't know anything about philosophy but let me say that all this philosophy is bunk" Maybe if you thought about it more than identifying it, it'd be different. But that's from someone who is actually interested in philosophy and thinking past a reactionary opinion, so maybe I'm asking too much. All in all, bad take. I did appreciate your presentation and structure, so props for that. This was my first video of yours, and while I may go into others with a big fat grain of salt, I can say I'll check out some of your other content.
SPOILERS ABOUT THIS GAME! So, about the "emotions are prohibited" plothole... I don't think this is actually a plothole at all. Now, I was also disappointed by this title and it's been a while since I played, so bear with me if I got anything wrong, but... a big theme with our mechanical cast is this desperation to be with their creators, right? In the final battle, A2 drops a line that androids are programmed to serve humans, in response to 9S asking why he craves human attention. As the senseless war continued between android and machines, they evolved emotions for two reasons: 1) Emotions are useful. If the androids accepted that all the humans are extinct, then logically, they would have no reason to exist anymore. However, humans built the androids in their image, so... for better and worse, it wasn't an option. They needed hope to keep going anyway. With emotions, they would have the determination to keep up with the machines. This is also why combat androids have the feelings of love simulated when they fight -- it's a motivator to keep them from falling into despair, or worse, apathy. 2) Emotions became the closest link to humans the androids had left. (This is also the point of that weird factory plotline with the machines who were determined to commit die. They thought that the thing that made their creators "Gods" was the fact they were mortal and that they could also become Gods through death. It's not a design flaw that the androids and machines feel intensely or become illogical, it IS the design. Maybe not the original one, but it's the one they adapted). I took "emotions are prohibited" as a very lax rule of the androids, mostly told to make sure the androids stayed on task. It's like if your workplace has a rule that you must wear black, but for ages employees wear dark blue or other dark colours without getting in trouble. It's enough to get by. Boss doesn't care. Then suddenly you have a coworker like 2B who snaps about how "only black is acceptable" and everyone is like. "Wow lady. You're not wrong, but... you know what we're getting paid, right? Maybe live a little? Anyway..." Generally, I remember this being the attitude 9S and 6O expressed, at least, imo. I actually thought it was a fun subversion to the usual trope once I realized there weren't really strong implements in place to punish androids for just "feeling". They might get scolded for keeping useless data like cat pictures, or getting crushes on other androids, but they'd only REALLY get in trouble if they stepped out of line(which I guess would be the workplace equivalent of showing up to work naked, except like, worse, because sacred duties and stuff. Consequences IMMEDIATE.) I do think the game could have benefited from being a bit clearer about this (and it could have benefited from having a better story and world to explore, but that's a whole other conversation), so I understand why it'd be frustrating tho.
Emotions are prohibited is definitely meant to be a rule for Yorha, who as the latest models are made the closest image to humans. But those emotions would also make them question being part of a Death Cult, which YoRHa is, so the emotions must be prohibited to keep them loyal.
They can build the Pods that are robotic and have no issue with emotions, so they can do the same for combat Androids if emotion is such a bad thing in their operation. Only the few high level Androids need to be that close to human quality. Putting emotion into the Androids and then have a rule to forbid it is just dumb.
"Emotions are Prohibited" is a lie 2B tells herself and 2B to keep 9S at a distance. She keeps repeating the phrase while every single member of Yorha flaunts this rule pretty openly. Every one of them, including 2B, shows very strong emotional all the time, and nobody enforces it. Its heavily impled the Yorha Commander herself is deeply irrational in her personal life, refusing to go to the doctor and living a very messy lifestyle behind closed doors. Sure, it may be an actual written policy, but we either see Yorha units lying about it or we see them deserting with their partners, with all the obvious subtext that includes. 2B is the only who cites the rule, and she only cites it to not develop an attachment to 9S, and she fails at this, repeatedly.
You always vaguely _hear_ videos talk about different sides of enjoyment, and if you're lucky, you get to watch it happen in real time (like with FNAF Security Breach) but you never really _see_ videos talking about the _less positive_ angles of a beloved game, so this is interesting to me, especially when you've made clear you're not some contrarian or clickbaiter, your genuine reasons and message are culminated in the thumbnail
Im a 36 year old man and cried like baby several times getting the platinum for nier replicant. I loved the characters and the deep story with twists at every turn. Automata had been upgraded and is better in pretty much every single way. Idk if it will match the story or the characters but thr gameplay, music and world are top notch. I've been gaming since i was 5 but started automata when i got back into gaming after a 10 year break and didnt care for it at first either..now after coming back 2 or 3 uesrs layer with about 175 platinums and at least 200 games beat since coming back to gaming. I can appreciate nier Replicant and automata for the art rhey are. I can also see how it easily goes over peoples heads also.
This is a simple case of, it's not for you. Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean it's bad. Appreciate going against the grain and criticizing it but imo the criticism comes off as being nit picky. I guess hating beloved franchises is the cool thing to do now
Also she missed like a whole plot point why androids have emotions in the first place and why 2B was upset after 9S memories were deleted on the beginning of the game.
Spoilers. - - - - In route C 2B dies causing A2 to become the main protagonist and in a sense 9S to become the main Antagonist. I genuinely think WHY people love automata isn’t even route A or B its the massive shift in tone when route C comes along. Route C is just on another High
I’d also like to make a point that not many know or too many people know Yoko Taro was hammered while writing all of NieR Automata or at least most of it. This is what happens when you get a Drunk middle aged man to create a story about philosophical bullshit that even he doesn’t find serious. Why people love Yoko Taro is because of that. He doesn’t take his work seriously despite the stories being depicted as serious the intentions were not serious at all
@@BellaK423 Hm, to me it was 9S who becomes the protagonist, the story being mostly about his downfall, similairly to how a lot of replicant's about Nier's loss of innocence I guess you can see either of them as a protagonist with the other one as an antagonist, everyone sees themselves as a protagonist and it's just a matter of perspective (again like in og Nier ;P)
I put this game down for like 6 months. After I picked it back up I couldnt stop. Saving means just save after you made progress you dont want to lose. And you gotta love grinds for this one. I used to disliike grinds, but then I discoverd Warframe. Then played Neir again. Love the story, the aesthetic, and the all
I dont think this director is actually as self indulgent as what you feeling, in fact if anything I think he is probably less so than any the rest of us
NieR could be brilliantly avant garde if viewed as intentionally demanding and unsatisfactory. But then it went and shoved android ass in my face, which hella undermines that take.
There are three types of people that have played NieR:Automata,: 1. They give it at least a 9 out of 10. 2. They think of it as just a game. 3. They hate the game and/or the characters, the features, or the gameplay. #3 is rather a niche thing, as I haven't seen that many. One guy made a video with oddly a similar title as this video's thumbnail, in 2018, where he not only went into the game with a preset mindset, but also with a mouth work that tried to force an opinion of the game in every single second. This in turn diminished his experience with the game, as he wasn't even able to traverse the tutorial area, and gave up after 2 hours halfway through, which is also halfway through the demo. (except the demo doesn't have the intro cutscene and the flying into orbit fight) One example of #2 is someone who wanted to explore the internet before playing the game, on the search for why everyone is giving it a 9/10, rarely a 10/10 or an 8/10, he found out that everything that makes these people give the game a 9/10 is a spoiler of the game. Probably a reason that the talk with your co-worker bird ended with silence. But there's also one critique point that doesn't fit in any of the three categories; the graphics. The graphics are in the distance, rightfully unimpressive, as it is with any game, but they then support the graphics argument with the shadow shader argument, even though they're two separate entities, and neither of them are important enough for Yoko Taro to fix, as it's important for him that the game is stimulating the player's emotional region, not the eyes. So it comes to how water is shown in game. I personally couldn't describe it until I saw a video, where they described it "as if sensors are seeing the world, not like humans do." Then there are also streamers/youtubers that think they beat the game after reaching Ending A. Only one or two did come back to find a whole another 25 hours of content ahead.
To be fair as much as I love Nier I recognize how it can be a hard thing to get into and it's unique nature will not be enjoyable to everyone. Personally the game's weirdness is my favorite part but Yoko Taro is a madman and it show's with his games. The only real problem I have with some negative reviews, which I'm not saying is what you're doing, is when people become overly critical over game-y aspects like invisible walls or other things like that.
I didn't have most of the problems that you had like saving, 9S boring route, repetitive stuff, seeing 2B's ass everywhere... but to each their own. I think you would have enjoyed the game more without Twitch chat
I’ve wanted to play this game since it’s release, and when I finally got it, it lived up to my expectations tbh. It wasn’t that hard imo. The chip system reminds me of warframe and is much appreciated aspect. The map could be livelier but I’m pleased. To each their own ig
Nier Automata suffers a lot from very primitive lighting. Everything looks flat and bland to the extent that everything looks so samey. There's no real shade, no contrast, nothing. To me it looks like it's just using real time shadow maps and a basic ambient color for indirect lighting. Here's the thing. You can't lean back on cell shading to compensate for poor graphics. You'll simply end up with a flat and boring looking cell shaded game. Actually good looking cell shaded games take not only technical prowess but also creativity and a keen eye for details. Just look at High Five Rush. That's how it's done. On a side note the PC version took years before it's performance issues were resolved. Basically the game didn't run great despite the primitive graphics. The performance was so bad third party tools like Special K were needed.
This video reminds me of when game journalists reviewed the game after completing route A. Most of your questions/problems would've been solved by playing the game till the end since route A/B is the prologue (like 40% of the game) and route C is the true sequel. Most of characters action/motivations are justified at some point and many plot points have double meanings that most won't get the first time. Also, have you done sidequests (since lots of them contribute to the story) or read documents the game gave you? Many times you call the game pretentious but never actually explain why or what games did better and also insult outright the director for no reason. You not getting into the game or getting it's point doesn't make it 'pretentious'. The game presents you it's philosophy but leaves you the final choice of what to think and what to do gameplay wise. A good example of pretentious writting in gaming is TLOU2, the games tells you what to think and gives you no options gameplay wise. A story about right and wrong written by people who think they're always right. You make it seems many times like people like this game for bad reasons (2B's *ss) and dismiss it's other qualities. The game can switch from a ARPG to sidescroller to platformer to bullet hell to beat them up to visual novel, ... How many games changes genra for storytelling? This alone is a good reason to love it. You clearly came into the game with established bias (anime trope and 2B's representation). You completely missed the point of ending E. You sacrifice your data to help other players to get the real ending of the game which is the only somewhat happy conclusion. This decision is really difficult since at that point most players haven't completed sidequests and lose chapter selection. How many games did a similar thing? The criticism about se*ualisation is so disingenuous, Twitter worthy and false. I played the game in it's entirety and at no point the game forces on you under skirt angles unless you really try to get the angle by messing with the camera (except maybe in some cuscenes), which is a you problem (another example of player choice). The character is se*ualised by the internet but not by the game story. Also, the selective outrage needs to stop. Do players complain about male representation in games? It's okay to have characters like Kratos walk bare chest since two decades but having a female character wear a skirt is insulting? Please. S**ualisation in games is a problem only for those who want to focus on it. I have no problem with people having different tastes but can't stand when they spread misinformation/misrepresentation as facts. As a whole this entire critique comes of as half-assed, biased, misinformed and pretentious. A critique should be well informed, fair and respectfull.
@@MertKayKay Having a different opinion is a thing, bashing the game, director and fanbase is an other. This video would have been fine if you just said you tried but didn't like it instead of making a full review gasligthing the game despite not completing it.
I got all the endings in this game and while I loved the music (I played Nier on Xbox 360 ages ago) and found the story interesting, I'll never play it again. I had issues with some of the combat mechanics and more anime elements and only pushed through because of my completionist tendencies.
20:27 "Game wants to be linear...consistent autosaves" The game does no such thing, in fact when you first start and click New Game, it explicitly told you * "This game does not support auto-save Play the game to find out how to save." You are expected to rely on manual save point locations and not dying the rest of the time. The checkpoints (where they do exist) are simply aid in some of the combat or boss areas. You are not expected to die while exploring the open world and if you do you will be punished by having to retrieve your body and gear at a disadvantage as well as losing progress Judging this videos like/dislike ratio, most here played the game and understood it. But on the off chance someone here didn't play it and would actually like to know why the game was loved there are many good in depths videos out there. The video "A Story Analysis of Nier Automata" by Gingy Is good and shorter than some of the other analysis videos out there
This video made me remember I actually just stopped playing the game during 9S' story and completely forgot it was still installed on my computer until now. 9S' story is just so hard to get into. You can do the same stuff, again! But now with an annoying minigame as your most damaging attack and an insufferable protagonist! Thank god for the minigame skip function, 9S would be unplayable if you had to do it every single time.
Damn, It's undeniable that the game is oversexualized, Yoko Taro himself said he did it solely because he likes arse, anyone that denies it is therefore just clearly wrong. But damn, to say that the story is solely a "look at 2B's arse simulator" is Absoluetly Unphatomable to me. I get that it could be told differently, but I find it completely outerwordly to reduce the whole story telling to 2B's sexualization. I find it genuinely good, the secondary missions can be boring if you already is not vibin' with the game, but they do show on a more profound level the feelings, emotions and thoughts of the characters, as does the main story. I am one to vibe with the game's narrative, world and execution tho, so I have the view of someone that really enjoyed the game, but for that reason, to resume Nier as a arse looking simulator is far way beyond a stretch to me. unfortunatelly the game is indeed oversexualized and brings the wrong weird kind of attetion, so yeah, ain't gonna hate over it. And although I uterly disagree with the review, appreciate the fact of playing it to the end, takes real effort to finish something you don't enjoy, and it's nice to see a different view of someone that is on the other specter and don't like the game, frustrating in this case lol, but interesting nonetheless, I see some points made that I didn't gave much attention the times I played. Would recommend still, I find this game amazing to say the least.
I'll say one thing On the first time 2B and 9S reached and landed on a rooftop after fighting the first boss, I sprinted down instinctively Took me 2-3 minutes, kinda feel irked that I (thought) I must do this as majority of JP games have invisible walls so no jumps After I got an ending, I go for 2nd playthrough, I went there, on that rooftop I glide down easy THERE WAS NEVER INVISIBLE WALLS, I WAS CONDITIONED AM PISSED So about these games, I don't really understand, but I think it meant for you to enjoy it by *truly exploiting all that it shows you* The 2nd and subsequent playthroughs is relatively a breeze, as I already knows what to do and what enemy weaknesses I super enjoyed it, but I get it, nothing is for everyone, there are games that I don't like too Cheers to you !
This was a really interesting video. I enjoyed hearing a different take regarding the game and do understand where you are coming from. I personally love this game, probably in my top 10 favorite games list. The story is incredible imo (Ending E left me in tears), the characters are well-written, fantastic musical score and engaging fun gameplay.
39:34 Okay, I could say anything like: "okay it's your opinion" in almost every topic but... This "apparently" is just... Nah. 2B's ass is not an appealing for most of real Yoko Taro's enjoyers. Yeah, he made a lot of sexy yet strong female characters around the years: Kainé, Zero, Zero's sisters, Popola and Devola ...He ALSO made a lot of SENSITIVE male characters but also STRONG male characters and BOTH combined. Examples of each one would be: 9S, Kaim and Nier (Brother) I don't care if you like or dislike this game but it's just that "I'm far too mature for anime shit" attitude what makes you see this as an inferior thing and EVEN if you yourself express that it has a lot of topics that you like, you have to make an entire video of ONE HOUR explaining why you don't like it. This is nothing but an excuse to earn some Social Credit points.
Someone mismarketed this game to you so hard lol. I got to it barely by accident because of small review and though replay gimmick was interesting So, if your friend couldn't answer why he like this game so much maybe I'll try P.S. IN RETROSPECT IT MAY HAVE BEEN A BETTER IDEA TO WRITE THIS COMMENT IN THE MORNING INSTEAD OF 2AM SO I'm sorry if my wording is complete nonsense First of all, I do not understand why do you think that people who made the game believe themselves to be geniuses. It is explicitly the opposite, in fact just typing Nier Automata GDC and looking at the video names will tell you enough. The game is ugly cuz it has no budget. The game actively hates you for loosing tutorial and puts you in the cycle of misery when you do cuz its funny. I didn't catch what difficulty were you playing on, but it should've been lower if you lost your progress so much really As for the story For some reason you put your understanding of a neural network that has nothing to do with how AI works in game universe, and then apparently blame the game for not representing Google's AI properly? Why? Personally, I believe the story is good exactly because of how wrong every character is. 9S is wrong about how to feel emotions, Pascal is wrong about how to teach emotions, 2B is wrong about how to be emotionless. They all try to be human so hard but fail in so many stupid ways we take for granted, or in some ways that are uncanny realistic (Pascal's ending) Now they try to be human cuz its what they are programmed to do? At least that what I remember, they've been made to reproduce behaviours from human history to satisfy some big AI I mean after all, human brains are a neural networks that can produce specialized neural networks, you shouldn't assume that emotions are somehow special and have to be "programmed in" by using loads of data simply because we don't know if that's is really required. Emotions could very well be just a side effect of evolution trying to enforce certain behaviour, same way robots in Nier Automata get them after countless of retries The point of game's ending is not "sacrifice". Game explicitly tells you what it is actually, by giving up your save file you may be helping some horrible person to finish this game. I mean, it's not as on point as Coca Cola ad idea was stolen from (stolen is wording used by Yoko himself so yeah Xd), but it is still a funny little thing to think about when you decide to give up a savefile. To summarize, no, Nier Automata doesn't think that it is a "smart" game, it is also EXTREMELY cheap which might be publisher's fault for all I know really. But also it has unhealthy followers after it as has any weird product that will read too much into it. I prefer not to interact with communities of media I find to be good, cuz what I heard about Avatar community is kinda scary. And honestly, would advice you to do the same
Now then I think about it 2 characters that came closest to "success" in this game are severely detroyed on the inside either to the point of insanity or complete apathy. Dunno if it means anything, but kinda funny
I can 100% see why you ended up giving up on the game, the 9s segment could have been implemented much better than it was alongside the saving mechanics you mentioned. (Plus yeah, the degeneracy of the game is pretty gross in hindsight) But I do think it's unfair to treat the 3rd playthrough with A2/9S as the same as the first two. It takes place after the events of "ending B" and has a lot of pay off for concepts and plot points you said were strange (like 9S basically being transformed into an unfeeling husk based on 2Bs constantly trying to stop him from expressing himself, and why 2B seems to care so much about 9S whenever he dies despite always dismissing him) alongside different bosses and plot revelations. The endings C/D are like the two real endings with ending E being a bonus cutscene, and i'd recommend at least checking out the "third playthrough" as it's different enough from the first two. but at the same time I understand if the game has frustrated you enough 🙌
About the emotion thing, 2B and 9S have been doing missions for ages, and there’s an official comic about it somewhere, basically 9S keeps learning too much about YorHa, they end him and wipe his memory, 2B remembers, and it keeps happening over and over, and she has to keep hiding her emotions while still trying to keep him safe, like “There’s no point trying to solve unsolvable problems”, she’s constantly trying to lead 9S astray to keep him alive this time, but she never succeeds. Also the whole ending thing is more impactful than more time passes, so E is pretty solid being right at the end, thankfully it keeps all your weapons and their levels, but I don’t know about chips though. Also also about the camera skirt thing, go to system, settings, camera, and there’s an option called “Vertical Auto Adjust” turn all the way down, camera doesn’t move at all… so at least you don’t need to worry about it while running.
This vid was frustrating. One, the endings were never apart of the marketing, iirc barely anyone knew there was 26 endings to the game when it launched, and most people who have already played the game will tell you “no, there’s really just 5 endings, the rest are joke endings.” And two, barely anyone defends 2B being hot because of lore reasons, anyone in the community would point you to the Yoko Taro interview where he directly says he just likes girls and most of the community accept that answer, you didn’t need to make an entire section of the video about how people defend it because of lore reasons cause this is the first time I’ve heard of anyone saying this. Also the whole “the camera forces you to look at 2B’s ass” I don’t think is very valid at all, when I’m in combat or walking around the camera is behind the main character, like in a billion games, with this logic ever Souls game would be forcing to look at the play character’s ass. And some of the scenes you used in your video to point this out were very poorly placed, Simone’s boss introduction and 2B choking 9S, most people and the camera focus on what’s right in front of you and in the case of Simone the camera pans out to be right behind you so you can go from the cutscene to gameplay instantly, you aren’t going to be focused on 2B’s ass when a boss is coming down to fight you or when one main character is choking another. I’m not trying to bash you, I’m just saying I feel like this video was very much not well researched, I’m sorry
I'll reply more extensively after replaying it, but for now, I'd just like to say you didn't like it because you're not a patient person, so your whole perspective is off. Playing it on a higher difficulty level would do the trick.
honestly im surprised you struggled with the saving so much-- i died once during my first 2b playthrough and enjoyed having to go back to my body to collect my things- i like the saving feature saince it contributes to the lore. when you die it's the androids actually getting destroyed and respawning is them sending in another android. saves are you literally uploading your "data" to the cloud for the new units to download upon "respawn"- which i think is rlly cool!! im probably biased since this is one of my favourite games, but the save system is very cool and contributes to the overall game, and i dont think the difficulty on normal warrants it being any more. if you played on hard its a different story and i think *thats* where the whole "its a soulslike!" comes from as it's genuinely challenging.- but it's only availible after a full playthrough for a reason c:
Finishing tbis game was just a chore to me - beating the same looking enemies for three playthrough, with two of them being almost identical, in a world that didn't had any interesting spot and a story that wasn't really for me. I would have probably loved the story when I was 15, but it felt kinda annoying to me: while I adore the characters, the whole "philisophy" thing just felt like it tried too much for me. The soundtrack was good, but I've... heard better. Definitely. Not a single track remained in my head. The combat system was really basic and, sadly, not fun: the boss fights were not hard, just annoying, and most enemies felt like damage sponges. I tried to like the game, I really did, cuz it's apoarently one of my friend favourite game, but I just... Didn't. It has some strong points, but not enough to make me like it.
This game is phenomenal. The music is amazing, the character design is fantastic, the characters themselves are memorable, the gameplay is fluid and snappy, and the story is compelling and thought provoking. The only flaws are occasional pacing issues and some issues with performance and graphics. No idea why anyone would dislike this game.
I dislike it and I don’t even know why lol. I gameplay is fun, the story is cool, the concept design is eye catching and the soundtrack is the best I’ve heard but nothing about it gripped me at all. When a major character death happened I didn’t care like,,, at all. I kept thinking eventually I’d get it but I didn’t. I think it just clicks for some people and doesn’t for others.
Dang, I really, REALLY disagree with this. But hey... we are all different. Automata was such a huge game for me back in 2017... never had a game make me feel the feelings I felt with this one.
Watching videos like these where I disagree with almost entirety of a video and not be hateful will bring death to the sane me. Though I agree with the lack of enemy variety. But pitting it against Shadow of the Colossus is quite deceptive framing from your part. As firstly, it's Shadow of the Colossus, and there's like, less than 10 people in this world who could stand alongside the director of that game. Sony literally gives Fumito Ueda a blank cheque every-time he makes a game. Which makes it 2 time (I don't think he got one for Ico) but regardless, on the other hand , Yoko Taro, before Automata, used to make quite low budget games. Even if due to help of a producer in Platinum, he could make a sequel in a bigger budget, knowing about the industry, I don't think for a single moment he got the same budget as Platinum's other first rate budget. Soooooo, yeah, for what they did, and what we got and how well it was received, I believe they did a good enough job. but, after that he got into a gatcha game, so cook that fraud.
We never get games that are actually interesting in their storytelling with intelligent concepts put across. It's unlike anything else and it's weird which we should demand more of.
41:23 The point isn’t that robots are sentient. The point was to show senitency as a spectrum. Individual machines in the game are not as advanced as the androids, but they are advanced enough to try and imitate humans as means for self-preservation. A robot doesn't need to fully understand what's fear to say "I'm scared," only the context in which it needs to be said for self-preservation. It doesn’t need to fully understand religon to act as part of one, and it doesn’t need to fully understand reproduction and inheritence and growth to try and continue the lineage of a king. The point is to explore what an imitation of humans but with limited capacity and capabilities might look like. Sure, the first time you saw robots that looked sentient, that should've popped this question in a shallow way, but what did you think when you saw robots pretending to be sisters? was it just "oh, another sentient robots"? About androids having emotions... yes, technically, AI can be restricted with rules, at least some models of AI, with some rules. The most popular models today, Neural Networks, cannot. You can't meaningfully dictate rules because we don't have a deep enough understanding of what happens there. It's just enormous mathematical functions. It's not hard to imagine a scanerio where a far more advanced AI model is trained to shape itself based on humanity and naturally develops emotions. The notion that if such a thing is possible, it still might not be possible for us to dictate clear rules to it, is very, very reasonable.
im so happy to read that everyone else is commenting that they actually liked nier automata. I agree maybe it's not a game for everyone, but it is undeniably one of the best games of all time that most people haven't played.
Did your friend really say 2B's ass or is that just your assumption? I feel like people from the outside looking in just assumes that's why people like the game
I agree with many of your criticisms, but still enjoyed the game. It's not a masterpiece, but it's definitely interesting. The worst part, to me, was how weak the main story beats were. It's a good story, on paper, but I BARELY realized some of the main plot points because of the way they presented them - the fact that the androids going insane was their planned extinction was almost an afterthought, when it should have been one of the most gripping and emotional moments. I think what the game did best was all the worldbuilding surrounding that main chain of events. I was also really bothered by the way 9S was driven to complete insanity when 2B died. I'm so sick of stories where a man is obsessed with a woman. People talk about "Oh, the tragedy of Nier Automata is that they're crazy in love!" and I'm like.... Is it? Because to me, the developers really missed the mark there. I don't care at all about this little twink because they made him SO boring and then IMEDIATELY insane after she died. Another reveal that was barely attention grabbing was the fact that 2B was destined to kill him over and over again. Maybe if you had made him interesting in any way or made me care for their relationship, I would have cared about that. But by the end of 2B's playthrough I was literally just starting to think "oh, she finally sees him as a little brother!" while the back of my mind was going "they're supposed to be a couple, aren't they...". And then 9S' entire arc was such a joke to me. PS: surprised you didn't mention A2's ass in the last section. I feel like they took special care making her animation and it's so disturbing. At least 2B has clothes ??
I just found your channel and I have to say that great editing and writing aside, I truly respect that you actually speak your mind about not liking all the anime tropes common in JRPGs. On the topic of the video, I feel very much like you do, I vibe with about 80% of the game and tried to enjoy it so much, as there were hints everywhere of Jungian and Nietzchean psychology(yeah i know I sound like a massive poser), both of which i deeply enjoy, but man, it's like the director read a single paragraph in each author's Wikipedia and decided to riff in their main idea during the course of a 60-80 hour long game, at 20 hour intervals where the story just loops for no other reason than pleasing completionists that enjoy beating and re-beating every game they play and without any respect for the player's time. I can kinda see how they thought minimal storytelling would be a good idea, seeing as Zelda, Dark Souls and mostly horror games actually pull it off, but without the deep, rewarding, complex mechanics or at least a short runtime. Like for real I'd rather play some tropey, weeby ass 30 hour RPG to chill with than this behemoth, meandering weeby ass game for people that have never read a philosophy/psychology book, although I admit it might be a good entryway for anyone interested in those topics, I'd really rather "try" to read and understand (but fail) a Nietzsche book, it's much less time consuming, there are less camera angles up the protagonist's behind, and it's the actual source material. Or I dunno read/watch Bladerunner, a movie and book that actually does something with the topic of what it means to be a human without fumbling for 50 hours trying to raise interesting questions but sounding like a highschooler who had his first philosophy class. The game that I feel is everything Nier Automata strived but failed to be, is Signalis, despite being a different genre, its just as proud of copying other works of fiction and literature but actually raises interesting questions that are not only relevant to straight males in their anime figure filled attic.
I disagree with almost all of your points, but I will say that personally I never saw 2B as sexualized throughout my playthrough (in fact I remember only noticing A2's butt during her 'hacking' section near the end of the game) so it honestly really bothered me to see how people sexualize her outside of the game. I love the entire DrakenNier franchise and Yoko Taro has a great sense of humour (Drakengard 3 is hilarious) so I get it, but I do personally feel that it undermines the message of her being more than an object. I really hate how she's been reduced to a talking sex toy after the entire game is an exploration of what it means to be human. Also although you might get tired of its grindy nature, it sounds like a lot of your issues would be addressed storywise if you played Nier Replicant which predates Automata.
I thought she was pretty sexualised in the game as well but also in the anime which I watched. There was butt shots anytime she fought enemies. Lots of focus on her thighs and crotch as well. I'm fine with this sort of thing with characters like Bayonetta where she is a sexual character but 2B isn't. It just felt out of place.
Very interesting to see a different opinion on this game I suppose. But I truly do feel that the attitude is a little too passive in some areas and misses the point on what the said "missed mark" even is about in this story. I do agree on some points but there are some others that really just feel like it was completely overlooked based on personal opinion rather than intended portrayal. That and it became clear that frustration blinded you from experiencing things as intended. There are some story beats that confused or caused you to formulate specific opinions on how things should be changed. It is because Automata isn't a standalone story where it gives all the context in one game. Which is fair because unfortunately the story can be convoluted within the Automata universe since there are story plays and literal important lore lines being read out in concerts that weren't heard anywhere else. But I also feel like this was done because they didn't want to make the story in the game span over 70 hours just to experience it all. This to me just signifies who wishes to pay attention to it all or not. But a lot of stuff mentioned in this review has reasons behind them that make sense to me. You're not digging deep enough and you aren't wanting to which is completely valid since you don't HAVE to. So I hope that this counter-commentary is met without bias. Because dismissing anyone who may want to counterpoint is rather disingenuous and pretentious to just put out your own opinion and plug your ears and not hear them out. This goes for anyone else who wishes to read through this as well. twitlonger.com/show/n_1ss98iu
Nice commentary of 2B killing "God" the entire time. I forgot that 9S is related to the creator of YorHa. Though it could've been an afterthought of Yoko Taro to connect 9S to creator of YorHa to create the irony to begin with.
@@makotoshiro318 it is something that is missed by many but my mind was blown when I realized it circled back to the beginning... which you think "well of course duh" considering the whole theme is about a never ending cycle. Like the only time it stopped is when A2 stopped. And I remember that sticking out like a sore thumb because I've never experienced "hey stop attacking the boss".
Most of the love for the game comes from the feel it gives - everything in the game feels... off. The designs of the androids and enemies, the gameplay, the music (especially the music), the story. My friend, who played the game and didn't like it, said that the game made him sleepy. The game feels like a dream, where nothing makes sence, it has a very melancholic atmosphere. It has themes of existentialism, but has little to say in itself. My guess is that the main idea of the game is how everyone has to have something to live for to give themselves a reason to live: "Each robot had a trasure. Each of them had a different shape". Everyone's reason to live - "treasure" - is diffirent and when someone looses their "treasure", they could loose themselves. Like 9S. He was somewhat fine with finding out that YoRHa was created on a lie. But when he lost 2B, he lost his mind and skyrocketed into madness. 2B was his "trasure". A2 represents someone who lost their "treasure" and isn't able to find a new one - her combrates died, she was supposed to die with them. Every time she tries to do good, something goes wrong - she helps Pascal, but he looses his village, she promises to take care of 9S to 2B, but she ends up killing him and herself in ending D. It's hard to understand themes because they're kept blured, but when you understand them - there is nothing complex about it. References to famous philosophers exist to somewhat tie up the themes to existentialism.
Firstly, this is a well made video and power to you for making it. This made me think a lot about the way that I react to people disagreeing/critiquing things that I like. I think when there are strong disagreements over certain points, it makes me question, "Hey, why don't you expect more out of a game in this area" or "Are my opinions wrong?" Which, I think, is fine for me to question myself on. When you feel strongly about a piece of media, sometimes its hard to take criticism objectively. At least this is a flaw for me personally, idk if it applies across the board. It's not even that I disagree with all of your points, but a lot of them just don't hit hard with me or don't outweigh the PROs for me. I have a lot more experience with JRPGs so you'll have to forgive me there haha. Nonetheless, this made me deep in thought and I think I'll pull out some positive conclusions.
The story is what people like of Automata, everything else (ok music is good) is complete utter shit. These kind of people should just play all yoko taro previous games then and then come back here tell us in the eye and say that crap of "Automata is a masterpiece" when is not. Is inferior to many games of the time, but the fanservice, the story, writing carried the experience but what you will be doing for 90% of the experience is just trash or just average or serviceable. I played Drakengard and Nier 1 people can't tell me jack shit. Also I 100% automata because "game masterpiece, buy it play it won't regret it" and I did and sold it as soon as I 100% because games are expensive in Vzla, what a pile of shit.
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If you thought THIS was BAD. You haven't seen anything until you experience Drakengard (aka NEON GENESIS EVANGELION: THE VIDEO GAME) and Nier.
Maybe it's time to try it >:)
@@MertKayKay Prepare for pain then. Lots. And lots.... of pain.
I agreeded i mean Nier Automata is like Darkest Dungeon is to Fear and Hunger
The dark stuff is there on DD but Fear and Hunger goes way deeper in the dark stuff
While the first nier is a tragic, Drakengard is a tragedy
@@MertKayKay Please don't. They were deliberately made to be the opposite of fun.
Never understood how someone could skip cutscenes. I got one friend who skips every cut scene in ever game lol and it drives me insane
Right?!🤣literally almost had arguments break out because how is someone gonna skip the cutscenes then ask me what's going on in the game
used to do that as a kid coz i get only 30 mins and i wanted to play.
I do it in street fighter.😂 i just want to fight.
Used to skip all the cutscenes when I was younger because I wanted to play the game, not watch a movie. Stopped doing it in my late teens because I wanted to experience the story (also because stories in games actually got _good_ enough to pay attention to), and now I'm pushing 40 I wish more cut scenes were skippable (especially on a second playthrough) because I don't have the time or patience to sit through 8 hours of cutscenes interspersed with a few minutes of gameplay here and there before a game will let me actually play the game.
It's the same people who's idea of watching a movie is to have it playing while doing something else entirely.
I'm a little confused about the entire section of this review that's dedicated to discussing auto-saves, considering when you select "New Game" it tells you *"This game does not support auto-save"* and you have to acknowledge the warning to start playing. I never thought of the boss battle checkpoints as auto-saves.
I think the complaint is that it does SAVE, so if you screw up, you can't just go back to an earlier world state to try again, there are consequences for the failure, in that your body has all the chips on it, and you have to go get them back.
That said, in Route C, this is no longer the case, and if you die, you die, same as with the Prologue, and for the same reason, the Bunker can't get to you, so if you die there, the 2B/9S you're playing as ends.
It makes sense to me. You get a checkpoint while you're in the battle, but then afterward you might die and have to still do the battle all over again. It's a bad system.
In the... 'defense?' of 2B and the Themian Paradox... Yoko Toro DID 'just tell us' xD. His response as to why 2B was as she is when directly questioned was a bluntly honest 'I just really like girls' IDK if that's BETTER or worse honestly... but it is an unusually honest response.
I know my opinion will be unpopular - but I thought that was hilarious. The mans has a very silly sense of humor. He's an odd bird, for sure.
Well it's better than Kojima's reasoning for Quiet in MGS V.
@@DeaDiabola I think I prefer the honestly really... I don't personally actually have any qualms with people like... having sex drives. It's oddly American to be overly 'worried' about people finding attractive things attractive. I feel like the urge to HIDE it probably is worse and potentially leads to problematic psychology more than just being honest about stuff
@@lenajohnson6179 if you're not ashamed about your interests and aren't trying to make excuses for having a sexy character, yeah I'd say that's better.
If someone wants to make a sexy character then they can. It helps when they also have good writing around them though, that's always a positive.
Although I agree that being honest in this regard is better than being disingenuous about one's sex drive, its this very fact that kind of makes me more upset about the story telling and the game it self. Because its trying to appeal to the 'being real' angle while also turning around and trying to pontificate about philosophers and existentialism and shit, not that a story (or a person) can't have both but Nier Automata doesn't integrate their sexualization with their philosophy or at the very least they are incongruent to each other, they attempt to have philosophy with a somber and self serious plot line and then also attempt to act like a horny teenager but are being 'real' about it. I just wish they kind of picked a lane, or made it so there was more synchronicity between the two. I think more so than any story beats, its a tone thing for me. The world is bleak, the story is bleak, the characters are bleak and sad, and it just feels wrong to sexualize a character in this context and it makes me ask if the audience is suppose to be existential and sad OR if they are suppose to be horny... I think its both? I guess?
p.s. something about this game makes me rant, I apologize, but I tried really hard to like the game too (but I really didn't)
I think one issue with automata is that, with games from this franchise/developer, people really don't want to reveal spoilers. But they love the games and want other people to play it.
So you've got a bunch of people playing the kind of game they won't actually enjoy because they don't know anything specific about it, but everyone says it's incredible. And yeah, it's incredible, to people who like this kind of game. I love the hell out of it but I'm careful recommending it to other people. You really don't want to spoil ~anything~ in a game that people have to play twice before they start to see the really cool shit.
It's exactly the same with games from the SoulsBorne series that are only marketed for being 'Hard' when there is in fact much more reasons to like or not these games than being hard.
Yea I'm gonna be honest I didn't have the patience to play through the same areas of the game for another 8 hours just to progress the story. Idk who thought that hard programming in essentially losing your save file half way through the game was a good gameplay mechanic but I was not here for it lol.
Sorry but there's not really anything to spoil here, to anyone that has consumed any of the media this videogame copies to a letter, like Bladerunner, 1984, hell even Ghost in the Shell or Akira, this game is not very good at anything besides being a kinda decent but not better than the source, amalgamation of, well its source materials. Fun for anyone without a background in any Cyberpunk art whatsoever, but still pretty average story wise, only in music and maybe gameplay is it more than decent.
A game that does everything better and also copies a variety of sources but actually uses them as central parts of its story without looking like a sticker album, is Signalis, play that game, it'll be good for your soul.
late here but how would you actually describe the nier automata story and gameplay? i'm one of those people that has been incredibly curious about it, but the adhd makes it REALLY hard to stick to games unless im 100% invested and i don't exactly have the spare funds to see if it'll catch me. even persona 5 as much as i love it is a game i struggle to play through without long amounts of time in between play sessions :/
@@greatruloit is one of the only videogames that does deconstruction well at all. It is also one of the only video games that tries to do philosophy instead of just referencing ideas. I think that is what makes it unique in the space.
"if you hated it so much why did you play it three times??!!"
It's called journalistic integrity, Steve
DAMN RIGHT
I’ve played a great deal of games that get heaps of praise that I didn’t really enjoy. I say this because the same is said of randos on the internet. For one, games are expensive. That alone is reason enough for me to give games, especially ones bought at full price, more chances than I should. For another, I’ve played a decent amount of games that took time to click with me. You also almost feel like you’re obliged to when everyone’s fawning over a game. You get the impression that if you’re like the only person who doesn’t think the game’s a 10/10, you must be the one who is missing something, and maybe if you get further, you’ll see what everyone else sees and fall equally in love with it.
She clearly didn't tho. She hasn't finished the second part of the game probably. I mean, it's clear that she talks about the plot from the perspective of someone who hasn't played the three endings. She thinks there is an A2 playthrough story part... or the whole "why they teach emotions" part. Basically more than half of the video makes sense only to her because she hasn't finished the game. She could have just gone "I dropped the game because it's boring" but she says nosense stuff to make a large essay... Idk.
@@bestgrill9647 ....and this is the reason why people feel the need to get all the endings and trophies for a game they don't like. As if spending hours, completing at least 2 playthroughs somehow means their opinion is invalid. If a game can't draw you in after 2 playthroughs, you probably aren't going to at all.
I like NieR, I've played it multiple times and still agree with all the points made in this video. But, I can separate the fact that I don't care about the design not being amazing and can easily not indulge in sleezy old man behaviour and so am still able to enjoy the game, but it would take a lot more effort for others to get over and are under no obligation to do so just because I could.
@@looc_96 Okay, you feel the need to 100% your games because I post criticism of poorly made videoessays on YT. Makes sense. Dude, I haven't written anywhere that "feeling that the game is boring and quitting" is bad. I've just said that half of this videoessay is BS because she brings up points which makes no sense to anyone who has finished the game. The game replies to her arguments by itself, but she hasn't played the parts in which it does. she makes no sense for 20 minutes straight. Simply don't make "detailed" videoessays on YT of something you don't know about (or do it if you don't care about quality). Just say "I've quitted it's boring lol" or whatever.
You said something about 2b getting all emotional about 9s about to die despite only knowing him for 10 minutes. That's not the case. She's trying not to get attached to him because she constantly keep having to kill him over and over. She cares for him ALOT but she's trying not to because the same thing always happens. He ends up being too curious and finds out yorha secret and she kills him. She's tired of having to kill the person she cares about.
Yeah, I couldn't really tell from watching this video if MertKayKay knows this and is just narrating her (and other people's) feelings when they first see the scene, or if she never actually learned the story. Because there are other lines in the video that suggested she knew about the repeating nature of the narrative. So I don't know.
@Deschain19 it really don't seem like she learned the story. After she said she usually skip cutscenes I kinda didn't give anything she said much merit. She was more focused on how the robots, backgrounds and 2b attire looked.
@@Bogustice Exactly... And most likely her hair color has to do with her shallow review.
It is just that these people tend to have a certain hair color like pink, green or blue...
My hair is plat blonde, it just looks purple in the light
@@MertKayKay but can you respond to the comment that actually took time and knowledge to write that contradicts one of your points in the video or nah?
I love the sad but beautiful ruined desolate world… the slow empathy I built for the robots…. The combat really fit my tastes and experience personally
it is based after the apocalypse so it would be desolate lol
I feel that not looking at side content for the series makes sense. Unfortunately with how far Yoko Taro went out of his way to explain things in the major games within the confines of “dlc” does do a disservice to series as a whole. For instance, “Emotions are prohibited” is 2B’s personal mantra because of the number of times she’s killed 9S over and over, hoping that as long as she keeps herself from feeling anything for him means that one day it won’t feel like anything as she continuously does it.
Obviously it doesn’t work, hence the clenched fist when he explains in the prologue that he doesn’t remember who she is because he didn’t have time to upload BOTH of their memories to the bunker, making him “forget her.” But you don’t know any of these things, in fact the game makes you think they met in the prologue even though she’s already killed dozens of Nines by the time the game starts.
There’s so much non-game content that explains every single the characters do in the game that you’ll never understand unless you find the time to do deep dives on the weekends and looking at the CZcams creators who compile the information like EruptionFang, or Mr. Clemps, and even ValkyrieAurora has retired from exhaustion for her own mental health after making so many videos.
I feel that the DrakeNier series is catered to a very specific niche, which is an accurate series. Unfortunately, you just don’t fit the niche, which sucks, but hey can’t be helped y’know? All of your points are well-made. I disagree with a couple only because I’ve been hyper fixated on this series since 2018. But its all about personal taste, and also downtime.
As for your thoughts on Yoko Taro, just wait until you hear about the characters of Drakengard 1. Yoko Taro has a creative, yet disturbing mind.
A game can be very good but not for you. And that's totally fine.
The only points I WILL make in defense of the last section are
A: Automata isn't trying to be tongue in cheek about 2B. There's no actual justification. Yoko Taro openly admitted that her design was sexualized bc he likes ass. It doesn't EXCUSE the perversion, but he isn't trying to like. Make it nuanced or be tongue in cheek. It's just supposed to be inexcusable eye candy. The FANDOM tries to excuse it.
And B: 9s does lose his pants. I blew him up in the desert and he lost his pants. I fought an orgy of robots and the children conceived as a result with nothing but an overcoat, socks, and Fruit of the Loom skintight bootybriefs on.
It would have been more noticeable if he hat a T back leotard as well. If you give the audience some jailbait shota eyecandy, might as well go full on degenerate and own up to it.
@@_Xds_ when did I say it NEEDED a justification? That's what I'm saying is annoying. Fans are constantly trying to make stupid justifications for why 2B has a fat ass and trying to pretend she isn't just meant to be eye candy. When the creator has come out and stated she's JUST supposed to be perverted eye candy. Because he has a thing for ass.
@@_Xds_ As a former animator, this is a ridiculous comment lol. Of course it matters.
You literally get an achievement for playing 9S after self-destructing
@@rain4825 "uhhh degenerate, i dont like it", well, what a shame, still, i dont think it is cool to tell someone to be even more degenerate to fullfil what you think a degenerate would be, just to hate this type of person even more after.
Nier Automata is a very special game to me personally and helped me get through a tough time in my life,very sorry you couldn't get into it and I love your vids especially the silence of the lambs and calling out bloober teams writing and storytelling
Aww I'm really glad it was so special to you Brandon! :D Means a lot to know you found something worthwhile there. I totally understand - and thanks!
yeah even when i disagree or it's a game i like she delivers great content.
When you get to the end, the 'The End of Yorha' ending, just the people saying "I was just like you, DONT GIVE UP!" and other bits of encouragement, it just feels good. The idea that the game itself not only the characters in game, but other players are telling you to never give up and keep pushing through, even though it may be hard, you can still push through, even when the weight of the world is pushing down on you, you have people who will be there to help you. That's what I took away, anyway I'm happy you have a connection to it!
@@MertKayKay if you don't have a firm grasp on a subject, as you openly admit, perhaps it is not a project worthy of your critique and effort. Academically, within the study of philosophy, it is required one either does the required research and appeal to the historicism surrounding a given subject, or leave a given matter as it is. You dont understand the various nuances of philosophy. You have said as much, yourself, in this video. Aesthetics is the philosophical sub-discipline under which criticism falls. However, you are not appealing to the historicism and contemporary theoretical methods of critical analysis which it entails. So. your content would be described as 'entertainment' by academic standards. Not trying to be shady, these are simply facts of the matter.
It is your right to express your opinions. But know there is a deeply philosophical problem in describing the phenomenology of a given artform or media without having delved a bit deeper into its subject matter.
Best wishes. Hope you'll take a chance and study aesthetics. It is really fun, if you can manage the dense texts. Your reviews would only be all the more refined by what you might learn. I honestly hope this doesnt seem too harsh. My intention is not to make you feel bad.
@@librarian4life I could read lines of your texts for days. You type so eloquently.
I just really quickly wanted to say the point of the ending is not the fact that you are sacrificing your data to save the world the point is that you are doing it to help another player. From a purely mechanical standpoint you are unable to do it without online turned on ( I know I was unable to do it the first time around). And also the reason why the ending felt do emotional to me and so many other people is because it is your choice to help another person out there by sacrificing your data. I could go into more detail why I personally think this is a great game as well as give my counter argument to your other points but I don't think anybody is going to read this so yeah ...
Yeah.
I don't know enough about this game to understand how removing your data impacts another player. Wouldn't mind hearing it.
@@qwandary I honestly recommend just watching a playthrough or playing it yourself as explaining everything might be kinda confusing and I think the game is worth playing.But basically in ending e you basically fight the end credits in a plane mini game and as time goes on and you keep losing you get a message that somebody wants to help you and then you get this swarm of planes helping you and basically by sacrificing your data you also become one of those planes and some person receives that plane to help them the way others helped you.
@@qwandary it's just a very poorly implemented gimmick where you lose your save file in order to watch the true ending but it doesn't matter because by the time you finish this, you'll be 50-80 hours in and wondering why it didnt end 60 hours ago. 😅
@@greatrulo you can actually view ending e without sacrificing your save data
The aliens were absolutely not a red herring. Them being killed by their own creation was unbeknownst to Commander White. YoRHa units have emotions and character quirks because they are designed from a human template, they're not just AI. Most notably, A2 has Kainé's memories and characteristics. Also, 2B's designer, not Yoko, specifically avoided enlarging her chest area and emphasize her bottom half. Think what you will of her design, but there is meaning beyond just cosplayability. Lastly, the machine lifeforms don't need to have complex movesets. The point is that they are indeed very limited compared to the androids. Sure, fighting them can become a bit auto-piloty, but this game isn't supposed to be Ninja Gaiden with androids. It's about the story and philosophical questions. It's totally fine if you don't like the game, I just feel you unfairly brushed many aspects aside as "just self-indulgent".
Ninja Garden with androids sounds like a cool game
Pretty much Metal Gear Rising. (^_^)
Emphasizing 2bs ass instead of her boobs doesn’t change the eye-candy focused design of her character lol. It’s a good design unlike other sexualized game characters but that doesn’t change its intentions.
I don't know anymore what you guys want to end up implying. I think it is sincerely respectable that you like and love the game. But for the sake of the medium and also for the sake of public thinking, it seems to me that we have to be critical.
The philosophy of this game is not much more than a hoax. It is very vague and condescending, lacking in nuance, very unintelligent.
@@luisapaza317 it's understated is what it is. Which is the best part, for me personally. If you keep digging into it and really think, the themes come more and more alive. But you don't actually need to, because the game delvers its overall message very well through gameplay and music alone, even if you never look any deeper. I honestly have no idea where you got condescending from.
the game doesn't think it's subtle about the philosophical references... it's very on the nose, taking certain propositions to their logical ends and poking fun at them or exploring them in a very literal way.
I get the game may not be for you and that's perfectly fine but it feels to me like there's many points that went over your head. and well that's also fine, but some criticisms seem really out of place to me
I know this comment is old AF but I felt like responding anyway.
Personally the on-the-nose nature of the philosophy references is what turned me off to a lot of the game's storytelling methods. It felt less like I was witnessing the story of these machines and androids and the tragedy that would eventually come to pass and more like a professor was scolding me on an assignment that I was trying to ask questions on like I was somehow missing the point of the discussion.
The way the story is written and it's themes presented often feels like the authors don't actually trust the audience to use their eyes.
Even worse, when there ARE moments that aren't cramming half baked Nietzsche down your throat via walls of dialogue that aren't even attached to voice acting, the game will play an interesting scene that seems to be setup for something important later, only to never bring it up again. Like I as the player was the weirdo for witnessing that.
A2 and the second half of the game in particular suffer from this, but the first half is still littered with it
Your suggestion that 2B be blind to the robot's humanity was already done in the 1st Nier. This game was focused on the android's denial of the robots' humanity. So it was important that the Main characters SEE the humanity but turn a blind eye to it to avoid questioning their own humanity. Plus anyone who has played the first game would already be in the know that the faceless creatures being killed in large numbers were likely sentient so it would be a waste of a reveal to be subtle about it.
A super simple metaphor that went WAY over their head.
It is ok, not everyone can have good taste.
Okay, that made me laugh. Thank you.
its ok, not everyone can sit back, relax and enjoy something from a different culture than their own and appreciate it for what it is. i bet she would really hate death stranding.
You're speaking about yourself here.
@@uroborous01 death stranding was bland and too much monster energy involved.
@@thejack5952it’s only bland if you are a smooth brain. Which is totally fine.
I've been willing to forgive its faults for some incredible moments. The "Amnesia" sidequest, the beginning of route C, the general chilling feeling of the post-apocalyptic world, the mystery of Yorha, the Amusement Park and its music and the ending. I think its "philosophy" isn't meant to say that "wow robots are alive what does it mean to be alive what makes u different" and all that shit. I think it's a curveball for the real meaning. Not to sound edgy referencing Nietzche, but the game clearly does. "God is dead", and without God (a universal meaning) there is no purpose. The humans are God, and dhe androids are us. Humans are dead (we stopped believing in God) and Androids are left with nothing to purpose to continue (Nihilism). In the final ending, they get a chance to break free from the shackles and find their own meaning and reason to exist. To become "übermench" , which the robots in the factory kept chanting that word all over again during the religious segment. It's kind of confusing at first but when you stop to think on what it means and how absolutely well done this metaphor is, you can't help but smile. And of course, 2B's ass..
But other than that, I also found the game annoying at times. It has some very bad design choices. I'd say it isn't a good/fun videogame. But a great piece of interactive fiction.
The bosses are literally named after Marx, engels and Hegels, there is ZERO philosophical value in this garbage.
@@saulcraft200 Seems to me you can't get past your own ideological biases. Sadly common these days, but there you go. Everything Yoko Taro has made since 2003 is based on empathy with the plight of characters trapped within fictional constructs, and specifically given free agency how would, and could they react to this "reality".
Caim in Drakengard was a psychopath because that's a rational response to a world where mass murder is only form of interaction and the currency of achievement.
Automata is the culmination of years of meta-fictional exploration of this theme where every element is the product of consideration and consequence of this core concept.
@@inxe8 There's no ideological backbone to my statement. If you had any reading comprehension you'd understand that what I meant was that the game lacks any subtlety and name drops concepts and people that the writer doesn't have an understanding of to appear deep. Your point about characters dealing with the existential realization that their world is based on a lie also doesn't make sense. The 3 plot twist that happen over the course of the game don't change anything. The aliens were dead all along, they just keep fighting the robots. Humanity was extinct, the androids just continue to kill robots. The robots had a convoluted and braindead plan to evolve by fighting adroids, guess we'll just keep fighting the robots. The only change in the world that happens at all is that the robots kill everyone except 9s and 1a, just to shoehorn an unengaging revenge plot. I'm not even gonna get into the whole AI ethics theme throughout the game, the exploration of it was about as competent as Detroit:BH, so not at all.
@@saulcraft200 You clearly weren't paying attention because throughout its made clear that the machines are simply aping human behaviours and philosophies without understanding any part of them.
This should be obvious given how we see them copying human biological functions and social structures blindly. Without that basic insight how do you think they are going to handle human politics and philosophy?
Taking umbrage at the usage of the names of philosophical figures makes no sense when its clearly defined as being purely aesthetic both diegetically and as a game design element.
What's worse is that you seemingly fail to understand the things you see as "plot twists" aren't that because they are all part of an established storyline. Its a sequel to a 2010 game the main plot point of which is the extinction of humanity inadvertently at the hands of the player/protagonist.
Similarly, the humanity of things that appear superficially inhuman is the core message of that game. That they aren't treated as major revelations in Automata is because they are already canon!
Yoko is far more interested in what it takes to break the ideoilogical cycles that these characters find themselves in. The philosophical question posed by 2B at the outset is whether she will ever have the opportunity to kill God. A Chekov's gun that gets fire in the final ending where we -the players- are encouraged to collectively defeat the credit roll.
@@inxe8 @inxe8 I pointed out that I didn't want to derail into a discussion of AI in automata, but whatever. It's done incredibly poorly and has been done to death. Why are the robots copying human behavior? According to the ending it's because the machines ,who are already superior in intellect to humanity, wanted to evolve by copying humanity... uh huh.
Second point. If the intent is to show that the machines are getting into philosophy it just further shows how the writer had no clue what he was getting into. It ignores the continuity of western philosophy. How do the machines understand dialectic materialism and Marxism if they haven't even explored the core axioms of logic? The themes of the game also don't delve into anything those three philosophers wrote, so what's the point of even having them? Another thing is religion. The machines have 0 inclinations of any elder worship, shamanism or animism, their religious beliefs instantly go to orthodox Abrahamic beliefs because all of this is just done for aesthetics, the writer clearly included these aspects of pop philosophy/religion because he thought they sounded cool.
So I guess the game's story falls on it's head without the context of the previous games, even though the developer said that they didn't need to be played to understand the story.
Nothing takes to break the ideological cycles in the game, they see something that flips their worldview on it's head and they just keep killing robots. It took their entire base getting blown for them to go "maybe we shouldn't just kill robots" and then they do what? They keep killing robots.
Admittedly, unless you have a background degree in Yoko Taro's whacky story universe, Automata can be pretty strange as a storytelling device. But it would be wildly unfair to demand everyone to absorb Drakengards 1+2, Nier and Re: Incarnation, and a number of light novels, plays, manga, and aaaaaaAAAAA in order to "get it". I'm glad you gave it a shot.
Also re: the 2Booty - if I remember correctly, Yoko Taro *isn't* the booty lover - the character modeller who actually made her model did. If this tells you anything about Yoko Taro's personality, the man once physically hid in a locker because of threats he got from Drakengard Ending E. He also frustratedly explained in an interview that one of his characters are just gay, and didn't shy away from it. He's an odd duck, but he's generally a well meaning fella.
He also gave us one of the best representations of a trans / intersex character i've seen in videogames, and for that i really admire the way he sticks to just making what he likes
Well Drakengard 2 isn’t actually canon to the timeline, Drakengard 3 is; since Taro didn’t work on Drakengard 2
@@elisehalflight wait really?
@@chrisdiokno5600 Im pretty sure they speak of Kaine from the first Nier.
@@SariniyaKiyu Ah
I appreciate you taking the time to make this video. It's clear that you've made an honest effort to try something and persevering to the end in spite of it not bringing you much personal enjoyment.
However, I must acknowledge that there were several points you made that suggested you pedantically focused your critique on the inclusion of the overused tropes and the trademark «weirdness» typical of Nier, and in doing so, accidentally missed the key themes under the surface.
For instance, the reveal of the true names of the bosses in your playthrough as 9S is not something done arbitrarily. Rather, it can be interpreted that 9S is driven to discover their names due to his curiosity and enhanced scanning abilities. Furthermore, showing names of certain philosophers during a second helps you contextualise and understand themes that you may have missed in your first run:
The goliath class machines being named Engels and Marx makes sense as they are large factory units (means of production). This exemplifies Automata's parallels to WW2 (taking place in a year ending with -45, pearl harbour descent mission) and makes it all the more interesting what the true will of Yorha really is when you consider the flight unit has the same designation as a ww2 advanced nazi bomber (ho229), the helmets with in the second half of the game look eerily similar to german stahlhelms, and they have a distinctive salute with accompanying greeting («glory to mankind»). With that context, the main conflict can be seen as being between Fascism and Communism/Marxism. This framing can be viewed as foreshadowing later events as well as the true faces hidden behind Yorha and the machine network.
The real life Simone (Beauvoir) advocated for women to determine their self-worth not by their attractiveness to men, but by their own virtues. The machine Simone showed us what happens when we dedicate our existence to please the gaze of a potential love interest: rejection, followed by madness and a sense of meaninglessness.
The two final bosses in the Tower (Ko-shi and Ro-shi) have the Japanese names of Confucius and Laozi, founders of the philosophies of Confucianism and Taoism, respectively. Those two machines later fuse together to form a Yin-Yang: a symbol depicting the harmony between the female Yin and make Yang.
It's interesting how the female A2 fights the Yin Confucius machine. Confucianism values ideas of loyalty, honour and conscientiousness-in contrast to A2's defection and overall apathetic, free-spirited personality.
The male android-9S-gets to fight the Yang Laozi machine. Unsurprisingly, there's another philosophical contrast here. The destructive, misguided, and impulsive revenge quest 9S has embarked on is at odds with Laozi's Taoist philosophy of peaceful harmonic living, non-interventionism in nature, and taking the calm approach to situations.
These opposites facing each other and synthesising both physically as well as metaphorically is further demonstrated by the appropriately named track that plays in the background, «Bipolar Nightmare», where the melody keeps shifting back and forth from a darker, more aggressive tone with powerful brass instruments and rapid strings to a lighter one, with the choir vocalising the same hauntingly beautiful motif present in «Vague Hope» while a piano taps along in a high octave.
I hope my little wall of text piqued your curiousity in the subtle themes buried beneath the surface of Nier. The game is quite short and has a low budget but is rifled with interesting details and foreshadowing-hence why there are multiple playthroughs. If you're willing to give it another shot, I'd recommend reading some FAQ or game guide on Reddit or something. There are multiple things you can do to reduce the frustration you may have experienced with gameplay. For instance, the Souls-like save system can be foregone completely by simply saving often, and then upon death quitting and rebooting the game to reload to your latest save in order to keep all your items and chips.
Some people see Jesus's face burnt into a toast, and some see only a toast. If you try hard enough, you can see deep meaning even in a pile of poop.
@@rustygear447 When you make a game, you don't just put random things, and even if they do, you can't say that all that was coincidental. Sometimes the Toast might have a face put on there by someone.
Very well said comment. If you give this game the time and appreciation to understand all it has to offer, you will realize what a masterpiece it is. Watching other analysis videos are very good at helping to do that.
If anything the ost is a banger 😭 one of my favourite gaming soundtrack of all time
It's decent
@@officeimpact6377i think it lacks diversity
I’ll be honest, this game is what got me out of the worst spiral of depression in my life, and is probably what saved my life. Tho I’ll just have to agree to disagree with you on a lot things you said, since I got a completely different experience out of it. I will say that there a lot of things about it that aren’t for everyone, but to me personally, I absolutely love it.
Aww I'm really glad it helped you so much Booker! :D
I gave her a chance but ya by the end i had completely lost faith. Shes missing alot of information.
@@moonmessiah9368who?
This pile of garbage is what made you get out of “the worst spiral of depression of your life”? Damn
Nier autoglass repair autoglass replace had me absolutely cackling
Damn I've never disagreed more with a video
She is right on alot of things she said.
@@vicentegeonix okay well she was wrong on this 🤫
@@Strife93not true, keep crying, consider the fact that maybe the game is not that great. But watching your pfp I can tell you wont accept that. 😂
@@vicentegeonix okay you came crying to me dumbass 8 months after I watched the video and I'm in the majority that think it's a masterpiece now go on with you're boring ass day
I never disagreed more with a comment
39:00 9S dying: "She's known him for less than an hour as well"
By this point in the game she has known him for years, see him die many times, and has been force to kill him with her own hands some 58 times
This plot line was hinted at right after said scene, when 2B and 9S resurrect back at the bunker and 2B has memories of the boss fight, but 9S only has memories up to the point where they first met
Which also ties into your misunderstanding of 'emotions are not permitted' 2B has grown very close to 9S over the years and is trying to distance herself, because she knows that eventually she is going to be forced to kill him again
Nier automata is a top game for me. Although, I didn't start to love it until the ending chapter/9s/A2 route. It's interesting to read others say that it helped them through depression. The game actually made me have an existential crisis. Lol!! I was sad for weeks after playing.
Just watched a 6 hour long video that details all of NieR story(not just NieR:Automata, which only took like the last ~1 hour of the video) and was really immersed by it, so I should see the oposing view
Not for nothing but the way you described 2B's constant booty shots and the way the game tries very hard to make the player feel okay for looking made me think of Pop Culture Detective's 'Born Sexy Yesterday' vid. The idea of 'the perfect woman' who doesn't mind being sexualised because she's unaware/unable to care/culturally different/too innocent to know better/etc, in this case exemplified by 2B's emotional repression schtick.
Never played NieR myself but it is fascinating to see that trope apparently popping up here.
That's an extremely apt comparison - I remember watching that video years ago! There's a certain ignorance to 2B that I think falls into that category so much, like we're taking advantage of her inability to understand fetishisation
Born Sexy Yesterday is my favourite video of Pop Culture Detective's.
He put to words what I felt growing up.
@@MertKayKay I believe that there is an in-universe reason why 2B dresses more revealing manner. It requires reading a bit between the lines. Though I am gay as caberet, I personally would prefer it if she was given a pair of shorts and that the booty shots would calm down. Either calm down or actually actively tie it into the plot.
@@PixelHeroViish as with a lot of discussions like this, its a doyalist and a watsonian perspective being unable to understand each other. you're defending it from a watsonian "in story" perspective, where the story can justify itself. most people here are talking in a doyalist "authorial intent" perspective, where they gave her a nice ass because sex sells
I really don’t know how you can not appreciate this game. It is one of a kind. I never played a game with so many different game types in one title. The store is such a mind fuck as you play the game to find out that nothing is what it seems. The music was something to say that it was a story of it own . Yeah I can see if you are not in to this type of game but you have to give it to this game because it something different than ever other game in world with so many same things with different skins out there
You say that the save system is unreliable. It sounds like you relied too much on autosaves. The game reminds you multiple times that it doesn't have an autosave feature. You cannot fault the game for you forgetting to save. Granted, the save system can get you stuck on a difficult part with no way to retreat to buy healing, that I think is true.
You say that there is a plot hole with android emotion, but it is indeed explained. SPOILERS! The YoRHa androids were not meant to have emotion, hence 2B's catchphrase, but they developed them unintentionally, because the higher-ups used machine cores as a cheap, mass produced basis for their black boxes.
You cite the scene where 2B gets extremely emotional over 9S being hurt as anime bullshit, but this is also explained. SPOILERS! 2B has known and worked with 9s for a long time before this mission, but he doesn't remember because his memory was reset from a backup. There is more to it but let's keep it brief.
I feel like a lot of the reasoning in this video are back explaining from conclusions youve already made. "the fact that robots are acting human is so obvious", hence bad, its like yeah, because the point is about why is 2b ignoring it when its so explicit and the fact that the robots are emulating what they've seen further murkies the water. Still, its not trying to be a reveal nor would it be more interesting for it.
I agree. I think the only story moment that was really meant to be a big reveal was that 2B is really 2E.
The obvious dissonance between the characters explanations and what the player is seeing was the point. Another example is the "Emotions are prohibited" line from 2B. As was said in the video, every other android you meet obviously shows emotion and no one cares. The point being to nudge the player and make them wonder why 2B is specifically trying to emotionally distance herself from 9S.
It's interesting that you mentioned that you'd prefer it if 2B's story left you in the dark about the humanity displayed by the machines, so that it could be more impactful when you replay those sections with 9S, who is more empathetic.
The original Nier actually does this with the slight twist that the character who has been able to understand the screams and pleas of the enemies you kill has been the most cruel, hateful and sadistic towards them throughout the story.
Nier also felt a bit less concerned with animé tropes to me (though part of that was down to the localisation changing the main character from a typical anime protagonist into an early-middle aged man with a face that has all the right bits to be handsome, but not in that arrangement, and a permanent scowl. Sadly, Daddy Nier isn't an option for the remake and you have to play Twink Nier, who isn't as interesting but admittedly there have been so many Daddy protagonists looking to rescue or protect a daughter, son or surrogate daughter in a post apocalyptic/fantasy setting since that game came out that playing as that version of the character probably isn't nearly as cool for a modern audience). There are some genre tropes present but they're generally there to set the player up for a cruel subversion.
I've heard that the remake does some work to upgrade the mechanics, so if you are motivated to check it out for comparison to Automata I would be interested to hear your thoughts (though given your experience with the latter I can understand if you don't want to play it, especially in light of the repeated gameplay sections for different endings, the requirement to collect and fully level up every weapon to see the final ending and the part of the game where it becomes a text adventure because you got drugged by a possessed tree and they didn't have the budget needed to actually have you experience the little side adventure , so rather than cut the content completely the developers decided that reading about it and solving a simple quiz about the collection of short stories you just read was a suitable compromise).
Just wanna say as a man, you spent more time looking up 2b's skirt then i did.
Yeah right 😉
@@vicentegeonix I'm only counting in game, would definitely be more if we're talking about other sauces XD
@@UnyieldingMass hahaha
NEiR: Achey Breaky Heart was my favorite wrong name 10/10
Channelled my Billy Type-Ray for that one
i haven't watched the video yet, but CLEARLY your problem is you haven't used one of the half-dozen DLC outfits while also having your ass hang out
Watching this again, I would argue a major reason the game's narrative fell flat for you is that the game does a very poor job of explaining many of the paramount details needed for the narrative to work. Been watching your videos for a while and you prudently review the game as is without outside context, which is reasonably. For many, this was the first Nier/Drakengard game they played like myself. Since this is the final game currently in the Nier and Drakengard series you need a novel size amount of information to fully grasp many of the elements here. Even the updated version of Replicant leaves out a lot.
Like you I also agree that a game shouldn't require this to appreciate the story. Especially with this franchise where there's novels, plays, and short stories that flesh necessary parts out. I sought out a lot of information about this franchise after completing it but I didn't realize how much story was still needed to fully understand this game until watching the Unabridged from EruptionFang. Which is a 6 hour video that just shows the absurd amount of stuff you need to know.
It's definitely one of those franchises that you need to dedicate a lot of effort into but even then that's asking a lot when the first impression doesn't impress.
A lot of people in the comments have indeed been filling me in on a lot of external info (to the game) that would have been so informative going into it. it's a strange choice to have so much info assigned to orbital pieces of media, and a risky one, but a respectable one
“Slowly parkouring around…” Faith Connors from Mirror’s Edge feels offended.
The game tells you it uses manual saving. This is reinforced multiple times throughout the game and it only uses autosave for a few select moments. Your problem is that you relied on autosave moments WAY TOO MUCH and forgot how the game actually works.
I always check comments in videos like this because I’ll pretty quickly be able to tell how much thought the video puts into its argument. Good to know it’s not much.
@@mr.stuffdoer8483the above commenter clearly didn't watch the whole video.
She explains why she struggled with it, the rules it flipped and how she attempted off-line to concentrate better.
Relying on comments of people who may not have even consumed the media is part of the problem of the internet today.
The shear distain in the "neir:automata" name changes had me rolling 🤣
The entire Yoko Taro catalogue seems to have a "fuck you player" vibe, especially when you consider what's required to see all the endings in a game like Drakengard. No surprise you didn't like Nier, it doesn't set itself up for broad appeal from a gameplay perspective. And yeah, 9S' shorts are just... no.
So this video popped in my recommendations as I was becoming interested in NieR: Automata, and I decided to play before seeing this video. Now that I have played it, I feel I can give my two cents on my own experience.
I think I can say this video's a really good example on why the game works so well for some people who are willing to look past the flaws of it to find the greatness in it, and why it falls flat for others. I'm not a critical person when it comes to media by a long shot, I personally loved the experience. I don't ask for much, all I care is that it tries to send a good message and can make me feel something whether it's scared, sad, elated, I'll hopefully enjoy it. So, of course this take isn't the most valuable in terms of critical discussion with regard to this game, but I do have stuff I want to say.
I think a death sentence to the interest of anyone playing this game would have to be going in with expectations, especially those regarding what topics the game may go over, (unless of course, you've played the other games in the series) The best way to enjoy it in my eyes is to go in with no expectations, no thoughts on what topics it may bring up, just going along with it and building one's own view. Personally I really enjoyed the writing of NieR: Automata, there was something about it that tickled my brain. I liked how the story and gameplay are somewhat designed to hurt the player.
NieR: Automata definitely has it's flaws, I don't think any game, no matter how great, can be truly flawless. An example is the gameplay, specifically the combat. Destroying machines feels good but it becomes extremely easy as you get used to the moves the enemies can perform, the only fights I feel were super engaging were some of the bosses, such as Adam's fight in the Copied City. That fight felt truly dynamic.
This is another admittedly miniscule example but something that's always bothered me is how much is in the game that can be done after it's beaten through all playthroughs that will not be seen by some players because the game asks if you'd be willing to sacrifice your save data. There are 27 endings, 21 of which are joke endings, 5 are major, and 1 is a DLC ending that is obtained through beating all of the arena fights. Some of these things you really only have a chance of experiencing at Level 99, normally people reach the prompt for save deletion at level 50-65. There are really great things some players probably never get to experience because of that prompt for save deletion.
I like the message that sacrificing what you care for to help others so we may all see a happier outcome is a beautiful thing, I love it in fact, but some of these things that are kept from being experienced is absolutely *wild* to me. The DLC ending literally has an entire *music video* featuring a band who collaborated with the game and an actual doll of 2B. The music is beautifully made and the visuals on the video are stunning, and I have a feeling because it's buried so deeply after all that content and a save deletion prompt, few people really get to see it. It's just confusing to me.
This is already really long but I will give my take on the designs of the characters. I personally, really enjoy these designs. Not for the blatant "awooga honk honk" appeal, but what can be interpreted from them. The game constantly draws parallels between procreation and the act of killing someone, both of these acts can be seen as somewhat intimate. To love someone enough to continue the cycle of life with them, and to hate someone enough to end their life. I think the outfits, being a mix of mourning aesthetics and a confident show of... well everything, is very fitting for a game that wanted to draw that parallel.
Or... y'know, the whole "I just like girls dude" approach works I guess, at least Yoko Taro was honest. I guess I can respect that level of honesty. Some things don't need a real reason to be after all.
There's a whole discussion that can be had about the sexualization of female characters in games and where the line should be drawn, but I'm not going to get into that since I don't think I deserve a say as a guy. All I feel I can say is that I'm not above it, I personally don't see a problem in having a cast that looks very attractive or can be called eye candy. It's not realistic of course, but it personally motivates me to look my best, to exercise, take care of myself, and find out what I look good in. I'll never look as good as some video game characters, but I can always look good to myself.
My general rule is, "if you're going to make eye candy characters, then don't limit it to the female characters. Guys can be hot too." I was into the characters 9S, Adam, and Eve. That's all I will say.
To wrap this up, I think the reason I appreciate NieR a lot is because the eccentric brain behind it all, Yoko Taro continues to tell it's story through many many mediums. There are stageplays, an orchestra concert where a story involving the characters before and after the events of NieR: Automata is told, and many novellas. I can respect that level of creativity, where one will use any medium to tell their crazy-ass stories.
Anyway, sorry for the length of this, just wanted to give my own two cents on my experience with this game.
I didnt get it till route c immediately the stakes were raised through the roof and the game truly became my favorite jrpg of all time
Jesus Christ, you didn't understood a single thing about the history, about 2B and 9S relationship and all the background history and the philosophical tropes about machines, androids, humans and emotions. Did you even finish routes C and D? You didn't mention that.
Anyway, It doesn't surprise me you didn't like the game.
I finished the game, all routes and got the platinum trophy (legit, not through using that shop)
I didn't like it, I'm just one of those sickos that finishes things no matter how trash they are.
Honestly, this is a fair critique. Nier's storytelling isn't for everyone, and I'm excited to see why it didn't click for you the way it did for many others.
E: Okay, about half way through the video, and I have to say, you using any other "A" word but Automata when referencing the title? 10/10 humour, A+, no notes. Keep doing what you're doing.
I played this game on Easy, which means that I was able to switch my pod on and just let 'er rip. It took so much pressure off of me to keep track of everything, and I wasn't even streaming or anything, I just have a difficult time keeping track of multiple things in games. I came into the game for the story, and that's what hooked me. As far as 9S's arc goes, I can agree with you that the story could have deviated just a little bit more from when he was alone, but I'm still glad it's there because I adore the layering of the story that comes from it. And really, without his perspective, the rest of the story just...wouldn't make sense, like, at all. I see the emotions that the androids feel, even in their limited capacity, was something rogue in their programming. Remember, this war has been going on for thousands of years, and who knows what any self governing AI has would be capable of? Again, it goes back to theoreticals that can be swept away by the story, but I think that some of the concepts presented are questions that should be explored, you know?
I feel like Yoko Taro is that one lead developer and narrative director that Squeenix has that's locked in a basement broom closet somewhere and only let out once every 7 years to unleash his madness and then goes back into his hidey hole. And that's okay! He's been able to bring some really great, unique stories to the art of video game narrative and development because of his perspective. He's always thinking outside the box, but he's certainly not for everyone.
Thank you Shanty
Her little twink companion is the best description 😂😂😂
Agreed with all your points in the vid until last section where you said they were trying to create in-universe justification for 2Bs outfit. That literally doesn't happen once in the game, no idea what you're talking about. They don't say anything like "oh 2B has to breathe through her ass" or any stupid shit like that. Whole last section sounds like you're dealing with a bad breakup or something and took it out on a character's design. (I'm not a fan of the game either but you're making me defend it.) You also mentioned at the start of the video that 2B's design was one of the main reasons the game caught your eye in the first place, so I'm doubly not sure what you're talking about.
You are so blinded by fanboy-ism that you missed an obvious joke.
I didn't play Nier so I will spare everyone including myself from reading walls of text about philosophy or anything of that sorts. I simply recommend that you play Suikoden 1 and 2 once the remasters are released because those were fun JRPGs that did speak to me on a certain level, especially the second games. A friend recommended them to me and they were fun, lots of things to do especially in Suikoden 2. ... ... .... ....... okay I lied I might type a wall of text after all.
When it comes to "technically it makes sense in the lore" I find it to be a rather cheap way of explaining why a certain character looks and behaves a certain way that's pretty much fan service. I mean yeah Quiet breathes through her skin but does she really have to put on a show in the helicopter when you ride it? Add to that she has an outfit that covers her from neck to toe, where's the game logic in there? Kojima makes fun games generally but Quiet was not the tragic character that looks like eye candy because of it, however I did enjoy aspects of her story. Miss assassin falls for her target and goes on to fight the good(?) fight despite being captured and tortured...looking back at it Quiet is a sexually provocative simp that wakes up every single day and chooses violence to solve her problems. Another thing about characters looking oddly sexual or more or less feminine if they're guys in Japanese styled video games, well it's something that seems to be a staple in RPGs made in Japan. It's more or less queer coated villains like for example Kuja from Final Fantasy 9...a femboy on his dragon being le big bad surprised me for a moment then I thought about it and it became clear...it's Japan lol. It's an annoying trope for sure.
The creator literally said in no uncertain terms that 2Bs design is specifically because he likes big booty girls. He made her the way she is is literally because that's his thing. He didn't make it for anyone else.
Any thermian bullshit is coming straight out of other people's asses, the creator outright said the only justification for 2B being crank bait is because he, alone, is into that and felt like putting it in his game. Everyone else is just huffing copium.
Very true! I saw all of these 'reasonings' in Reddit threads and in Discord discussions and in my own Twitch chat. I wish I'd screenshot them, it would have added far more to this video
@@MertKayKay I mean he could just be saying that to fuck with people... death of the author and all that jazz
9S and 2B are built to be around the same age, but as you say the way they dress and act gives off very different vibes. Made even more poignant that the S-Types are meant to look like they’re younger by being smaller.
While all the Male Yorha units who weren’t short and boyish were exterminate.
Also you misunderstood the Aliens bit. The Aliens WERE real, but were wiped out by their Robots who decided they wanted the dead humans to be their Gods instead.
as someone who doesn't mind some things like these you did a pretty good explaining your points and there's no issue with not being able to get into it (it's just a game at the end of the day), and you calling "automata" something different every time made me laugh harder than it should've good vid i always enjoy your content
Thank you Derek! :D
HELP the entire section about 2B's ass and the way she's built for voyeurism is PRECISELY how i feel about her 💀 I like her design, very much, but then again she's built precisely for that so she's literally doing what she's meant to do. It's refreshing to see someone actually wording this for what it is instead of the usual (and tired) "uhm, ACSHUALLY" that fans love to pull.
Creator of the game directly said "I like girls" to why she looks like that
Yeah but like... that was very much known? The creator straight up said that one of the reasons for her design is that he wanted to see cosplays.
@@rafabuda0 "I designed shit on purpose, therefore I'm a genius and am free from all criticism"
@@kinghijinx5892 not what I meant
Except no one is doing the “uhm actually” when it comes to 2B. From what I can tell from this video, the entire reason she made an entire section of this video about 2B’s ass is because her chat was defending it for lore reasons that don’t exist in the game or it’s universe. And she for some reason thought her chat represented everyone in the NieR community when in actuality most of us have seen the Yoko Taro interview where he was like “I like girls” and barely anyone tries to explain 2B’s sexiness on lore, most will point you to that interview. This video just wasn’t well researched at all and honestly the entire 2B ass section was pain, trying to argue the game “forces” you to look at 2B’s ass when it doesn’t (I’ve played the game multiple times, the game’s camera doesn’t force you to look under her skirt) and she shows scenes like the Simone boss introduction or 2B choking 9S, where most people would clearly be paying attention to what’s going on onscreen, not many are going to be looking at 2B’s ass, nor does the camera focus on it.
I don't think I've ever seen a better example of "I saw something early on that I didn't like and it completely and utterly jaded my view of the entirety of the work" Not only was the entire first 25 minutes of the video simply "art design bad haha let me point out how I don't like it" Like it's fine that you don't like the art design. Not everyone does. But it felt super whiny. If you really felt that way then turn the damn game off. Then with the rest of the points it's like you saw the point, ignored it, and decided to whine about it anyways. It's almost like you saw something other people liked, and simply decided to be contrarian about it. The philosophy argument felt soooooo shallow. "I don't know anything about philosophy but let me say that all this philosophy is bunk" Maybe if you thought about it more than identifying it, it'd be different. But that's from someone who is actually interested in philosophy and thinking past a reactionary opinion, so maybe I'm asking too much. All in all, bad take. I did appreciate your presentation and structure, so props for that. This was my first video of yours, and while I may go into others with a big fat grain of salt, I can say I'll check out some of your other content.
SPOILERS ABOUT THIS GAME! So, about the "emotions are prohibited" plothole... I don't think this is actually a plothole at all. Now, I was also disappointed by this title and it's been a while since I played, so bear with me if I got anything wrong, but... a big theme with our mechanical cast is this desperation to be with their creators, right? In the final battle, A2 drops a line that androids are programmed to serve humans, in response to 9S asking why he craves human attention. As the senseless war continued between android and machines, they evolved emotions for two reasons: 1) Emotions are useful. If the androids accepted that all the humans are extinct, then logically, they would have no reason to exist anymore. However, humans built the androids in their image, so... for better and worse, it wasn't an option. They needed hope to keep going anyway. With emotions, they would have the determination to keep up with the machines. This is also why combat androids have the feelings of love simulated when they fight -- it's a motivator to keep them from falling into despair, or worse, apathy. 2) Emotions became the closest link to humans the androids had left. (This is also the point of that weird factory plotline with the machines who were determined to commit die. They thought that the thing that made their creators "Gods" was the fact they were mortal and that they could also become Gods through death. It's not a design flaw that the androids and machines feel intensely or become illogical, it IS the design. Maybe not the original one, but it's the one they adapted).
I took "emotions are prohibited" as a very lax rule of the androids, mostly told to make sure the androids stayed on task. It's like if your workplace has a rule that you must wear black, but for ages employees wear dark blue or other dark colours without getting in trouble. It's enough to get by. Boss doesn't care. Then suddenly you have a coworker like 2B who snaps about how "only black is acceptable" and everyone is like. "Wow lady. You're not wrong, but... you know what we're getting paid, right? Maybe live a little? Anyway..." Generally, I remember this being the attitude 9S and 6O expressed, at least, imo. I actually thought it was a fun subversion to the usual trope once I realized there weren't really strong implements in place to punish androids for just "feeling". They might get scolded for keeping useless data like cat pictures, or getting crushes on other androids, but they'd only REALLY get in trouble if they stepped out of line(which I guess would be the workplace equivalent of showing up to work naked, except like, worse, because sacred duties and stuff. Consequences IMMEDIATE.)
I do think the game could have benefited from being a bit clearer about this (and it could have benefited from having a better story and world to explore, but that's a whole other conversation), so I understand why it'd be frustrating tho.
Emotions are prohibited is definitely meant to be a rule for Yorha, who as the latest models are made the closest image to humans.
But those emotions would also make them question being part of a Death Cult, which YoRHa is, so the emotions must be prohibited to keep them loyal.
They can build the Pods that are robotic and have no issue with emotions, so they can do the same for combat Androids if emotion is such a bad thing in their operation. Only the few high level Androids need to be that close to human quality. Putting emotion into the Androids and then have a rule to forbid it is just dumb.
"Emotions are Prohibited" is a lie 2B tells herself and 2B to keep 9S at a distance. She keeps repeating the phrase while every single member of Yorha flaunts this rule pretty openly. Every one of them, including 2B, shows very strong emotional all the time, and nobody enforces it. Its heavily impled the Yorha Commander herself is deeply irrational in her personal life, refusing to go to the doctor and living a very messy lifestyle behind closed doors. Sure, it may be an actual written policy, but we either see Yorha units lying about it or we see them deserting with their partners, with all the obvious subtext that includes.
2B is the only who cites the rule, and she only cites it to not develop an attachment to 9S, and she fails at this, repeatedly.
you have to have a non euclidean mindset to actually understand the story for this game
Such wonderful essays for someone with such awful taste
Thanks Joe :D
@@MertKayKay 🥰
You always vaguely _hear_ videos talk about different sides of enjoyment, and if you're lucky, you get to watch it happen in real time (like with FNAF Security Breach)
but you never really _see_ videos talking about the _less positive_ angles of a beloved game, so this is interesting to me, especially when you've made clear you're not some contrarian or clickbaiter, your genuine reasons and message are culminated in the thumbnail
Im a 36 year old man and cried like baby several times getting the platinum for nier replicant. I loved the characters and the deep story with twists at every turn. Automata had been upgraded and is better in pretty much every single way. Idk if it will match the story or the characters but thr gameplay, music and world are top notch. I've been gaming since i was 5 but started automata when i got back into gaming after a 10 year break and didnt care for it at first either..now after coming back 2 or 3 uesrs layer with about 175 platinums and at least 200 games beat since coming back to gaming. I can appreciate nier Replicant and automata for the art rhey are. I can also see how it easily goes over peoples heads also.
This is a simple case of, it's not for you. Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean it's bad. Appreciate going against the grain and criticizing it but imo the criticism comes off as being nit picky. I guess hating beloved franchises is the cool thing to do now
Yoko Taro is a niche game producer/writer, and it saddens me that people dumb him down to "problematic"
Also she missed like a whole plot point why androids have emotions in the first place and why 2B was upset after 9S memories were deleted on the beginning of the game.
lmfao
Turn up
Hating good games gets you clicks.
Nier automata is an absolute masterpiece and this is an L take tbh
imagine not understanding that people are entitled to their own opinion and instead deciding to be a toxic stan
@@jupitersnoot4915take your own advice
The moment I heard 2B was the main character I said…. Oh…you never played Route C…. huh…
Spoilers.
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In route C 2B dies causing A2 to become the main protagonist and in a sense 9S to become the main Antagonist.
I genuinely think WHY people love automata isn’t even route A or B its the massive shift in tone when route C comes along. Route C is just on another High
I’d also like to make a point that not many know or too many people know
Yoko Taro was hammered while writing all of NieR Automata or at least most of it. This is what happens when you get a Drunk middle aged man to create a story about philosophical bullshit that even he doesn’t find serious.
Why people love Yoko Taro is because of that. He doesn’t take his work seriously despite the stories being depicted as serious the intentions were not serious at all
@@BellaK423 Hm, to me it was 9S who becomes the protagonist, the story being mostly about his downfall, similairly to how a lot of replicant's about Nier's loss of innocence
I guess you can see either of them as a protagonist with the other one as an antagonist, everyone sees themselves as a protagonist and it's just a matter of perspective (again like in og Nier ;P)
Correction, saying 2B is a protagonist is not wrong at all because is true.
@@vicentegeonixnobody said she wasn't, they said she wasn't the main character, which she isnt.
I can't believe you recommended Signalis Mert. Amazing game but I will never emotionally recover
(great video as always)
Thank you my stallion
I put this game down for like 6 months. After I picked it back up I couldnt stop. Saving means just save after you made progress you dont want to lose. And you gotta love grinds for this one. I used to disliike grinds, but then I discoverd Warframe. Then played Neir again. Love the story, the aesthetic, and the all
I dont think this director is actually as self indulgent as what you feeling, in fact if anything I think he is probably less so than any the rest of us
If anything A2 is the sexy one lol. And being able to see beyond the fact they look a certain way is a testament to self control honestly
NieR could be brilliantly avant garde if viewed as intentionally demanding and unsatisfactory. But then it went and shoved android ass in my face, which hella undermines that take.
There are three types of people that have played NieR:Automata,:
1. They give it at least a 9 out of 10.
2. They think of it as just a game.
3. They hate the game and/or the characters, the features, or the gameplay.
#3 is rather a niche thing, as I haven't seen that many.
One guy made a video with oddly a similar title as this video's thumbnail, in 2018, where he not only went into the game with a preset mindset, but also with a mouth work that tried to force an opinion of the game in every single second. This in turn diminished his experience with the game, as he wasn't even able to traverse the tutorial area, and gave up after 2 hours halfway through, which is also halfway through the demo. (except the demo doesn't have the intro cutscene and the flying into orbit fight)
One example of #2 is someone who wanted to explore the internet before playing the game, on the search for why everyone is giving it a 9/10, rarely a 10/10 or an 8/10, he found out that everything that makes these people give the game a 9/10 is a spoiler of the game. Probably a reason that the talk with your co-worker bird ended with silence.
But there's also one critique point that doesn't fit in any of the three categories; the graphics.
The graphics are in the distance, rightfully unimpressive, as it is with any game, but they then support the graphics argument with the shadow shader argument, even though they're two separate entities, and neither of them are important enough for Yoko Taro to fix, as it's important for him that the game is stimulating the player's emotional region, not the eyes.
So it comes to how water is shown in game. I personally couldn't describe it until I saw a video, where they described it "as if sensors are seeing the world, not like humans do."
Then there are also streamers/youtubers that think they beat the game after reaching Ending A. Only one or two did come back to find a whole another 25 hours of content ahead.
To be fair as much as I love Nier I recognize how it can be a hard thing to get into and it's unique nature will not be enjoyable to everyone. Personally the game's weirdness is my favorite part but Yoko Taro is a madman and it show's with his games. The only real problem I have with some negative reviews, which I'm not saying is what you're doing, is when people become overly critical over game-y aspects like invisible walls or other things like that.
Honestly sounds like your viewers made every effort to detract from your enjoyment, TBH.
I didn't have most of the problems that you had like saving, 9S boring route, repetitive stuff, seeing 2B's ass everywhere... but to each their own. I think you would have enjoyed the game more without Twitch chat
I’ve wanted to play this game since it’s release, and when I finally got it, it lived up to my expectations tbh. It wasn’t that hard imo. The chip system reminds me of warframe and is much appreciated aspect. The map could be livelier but I’m pleased. To each their own ig
I wonder what "NierAssEnjoyer" thought of this video. I loved Nier btw but it is nice to see a different perspective.
Nier Automata suffers a lot from very primitive lighting. Everything looks flat and bland to the extent that everything looks so samey. There's no real shade, no contrast, nothing.
To me it looks like it's just using real time shadow maps and a basic ambient color for indirect lighting.
Here's the thing. You can't lean back on cell shading to compensate for poor graphics. You'll simply end up with a flat and boring looking cell shaded game. Actually good looking cell shaded games take not only technical prowess but also creativity and a keen eye for details. Just look at High Five Rush. That's how it's done.
On a side note the PC version took years before it's performance issues were resolved. Basically the game didn't run great despite the primitive graphics. The performance was so bad third party tools like Special K were needed.
This video reminds me of when game journalists reviewed the game after completing route A.
Most of your questions/problems would've been solved by playing the game till the end since route A/B is the prologue (like 40% of the game) and route C is the true sequel. Most of characters action/motivations are justified at some point and many plot points have double meanings that most won't get the first time. Also, have you done sidequests (since lots of them contribute to the story) or read documents the game gave you?
Many times you call the game pretentious but never actually explain why or what games did better and also insult outright the director for no reason. You not getting into the game or getting it's point doesn't make it 'pretentious'. The game presents you it's philosophy but leaves you the final choice of what to think and what to do gameplay wise. A good example of pretentious writting in gaming is TLOU2, the games tells you what to think and gives you no options gameplay wise. A story about right and wrong written by people who think they're always right.
You make it seems many times like people like this game for bad reasons (2B's *ss) and dismiss it's other qualities. The game can switch from a ARPG to sidescroller to platformer to bullet hell to beat them up to visual novel, ... How many games changes genra for storytelling? This alone is a good reason to love it. You clearly came into the game with established bias (anime trope and 2B's representation).
You completely missed the point of ending E. You sacrifice your data to help other players to get the real ending of the game which is the only somewhat happy conclusion. This decision is really difficult since at that point most players haven't completed sidequests and lose chapter selection. How many games did a similar thing?
The criticism about se*ualisation is so disingenuous, Twitter worthy and false. I played the game in it's entirety and at no point the game forces on you under skirt angles unless you really try to get the angle by messing with the camera (except maybe in some cuscenes), which is a you problem (another example of player choice). The character is se*ualised by the internet but not by the game story. Also, the selective outrage needs to stop. Do players complain about male representation in games? It's okay to have characters like Kratos walk bare chest since two decades but having a female character wear a skirt is insulting? Please. S**ualisation in games is a problem only for those who want to focus on it.
I have no problem with people having different tastes but can't stand when they spread misinformation/misrepresentation as facts. As a whole this entire critique comes of as half-assed, biased, misinformed and pretentious. A critique should be well informed, fair and respectfull.
Biased is when reviewer has different opinion from me :(
@@MertKayKay Having a different opinion is a thing, bashing the game, director and fanbase is an other. This video would have been fine if you just said you tried but didn't like it instead of making a full review gasligthing the game despite not completing it.
Gaslighting doesn't mean what you think it means lol
I got all the endings in this game and while I loved the music (I played Nier on Xbox 360 ages ago) and found the story interesting, I'll never play it again. I had issues with some of the combat mechanics and more anime elements and only pushed through because of my completionist tendencies.
20:27 "Game wants to be linear...consistent autosaves"
The game does no such thing, in fact when you first start and click New Game, it explicitly told you
* "This game does not support auto-save Play the game to find out how to save."
You are expected to rely on manual save point locations and not dying the rest of the time.
The checkpoints (where they do exist) are simply aid in some of the combat or boss areas. You are not expected to die while exploring the open world and if you do you will be punished by having to retrieve your body and gear at a disadvantage as well as losing progress
Judging this videos like/dislike ratio, most here played the game and understood it. But on the off chance someone here didn't play it and would actually like to know why the game was loved there are many good in depths videos out there. The video
"A Story Analysis of Nier Automata" by Gingy
Is good and shorter than some of the other analysis videos out there
This video made me remember I actually just stopped playing the game during 9S' story and completely forgot it was still installed on my computer until now. 9S' story is just so hard to get into. You can do the same stuff, again! But now with an annoying minigame as your most damaging attack and an insufferable protagonist!
Thank god for the minigame skip function, 9S would be unplayable if you had to do it every single time.
Damn, It's undeniable that the game is oversexualized, Yoko Taro himself said he did it solely because he likes arse, anyone that denies it is therefore just clearly wrong. But damn, to say that the story is solely a "look at 2B's arse simulator" is Absoluetly Unphatomable to me. I get that it could be told differently, but I find it completely outerwordly to reduce the whole story telling to 2B's sexualization. I find it genuinely good, the secondary missions can be boring if you already is not vibin' with the game, but they do show on a more profound level the feelings, emotions and thoughts of the characters, as does the main story. I am one to vibe with the game's narrative, world and execution tho, so I have the view of someone that really enjoyed the game, but for that reason, to resume Nier as a arse looking simulator is far way beyond a stretch to me. unfortunatelly the game is indeed oversexualized and brings the wrong weird kind of attetion, so yeah, ain't gonna hate over it. And although I uterly disagree with the review, appreciate the fact of playing it to the end, takes real effort to finish something you don't enjoy, and it's nice to see a different view of someone that is on the other specter and don't like the game, frustrating in this case lol, but interesting nonetheless, I see some points made that I didn't gave much attention the times I played. Would recommend still, I find this game amazing to say the least.
I'll say one thing
On the first time 2B and 9S reached and landed on a rooftop after fighting the first boss, I sprinted down instinctively
Took me 2-3 minutes, kinda feel irked that I (thought) I must do this as majority of JP games have invisible walls so no jumps
After I got an ending, I go for 2nd playthrough, I went there, on that rooftop I glide down easy
THERE WAS NEVER INVISIBLE WALLS, I WAS CONDITIONED AM PISSED
So about these games, I don't really understand, but I think it meant for you to enjoy it by *truly exploiting all that it shows you*
The 2nd and subsequent playthroughs is relatively a breeze, as I already knows what to do and what enemy weaknesses
I super enjoyed it, but I get it, nothing is for everyone, there are games that I don't like too
Cheers to you !
This was a really interesting video. I enjoyed hearing a different take regarding the game and do understand where you are coming from. I personally love this game, probably in my top 10 favorite games list. The story is incredible imo (Ending E left me in tears), the characters are well-written, fantastic musical score and engaging fun gameplay.
39:34 Okay, I could say anything like: "okay it's your opinion" in almost every topic but... This "apparently" is just... Nah.
2B's ass is not an appealing for most of real Yoko Taro's enjoyers. Yeah, he made a lot of sexy yet strong female characters around the years: Kainé, Zero, Zero's sisters, Popola and Devola ...He ALSO made a lot of SENSITIVE male characters but also STRONG male characters and BOTH combined. Examples of each one would be: 9S, Kaim and Nier (Brother)
I don't care if you like or dislike this game but it's just that "I'm far too mature for anime shit" attitude what makes you see this as an inferior thing and EVEN if you yourself express that it has a lot of topics that you like, you have to make an entire video of ONE HOUR explaining why you don't like it. This is nothing but an excuse to earn some Social Credit points.
What is a Social Credit point
2:38 - Was it though?
Because given the title, I guess it wasn’t meant 2B.
Someone mismarketed this game to you so hard lol. I got to it barely by accident because of small review and though replay gimmick was interesting
So, if your friend couldn't answer why he like this game so much maybe I'll try
P.S. IN RETROSPECT IT MAY HAVE BEEN A BETTER IDEA TO WRITE THIS COMMENT IN THE MORNING INSTEAD OF 2AM SO I'm sorry if my wording is complete nonsense
First of all, I do not understand why do you think that people who made the game believe themselves to be geniuses. It is explicitly the opposite, in fact just typing Nier Automata GDC and looking at the video names will tell you enough. The game is ugly cuz it has no budget. The game actively hates you for loosing tutorial and puts you in the cycle of misery when you do cuz its funny. I didn't catch what difficulty were you playing on, but it should've been lower if you lost your progress so much really
As for the story
For some reason you put your understanding of a neural network that has nothing to do with how AI works in game universe, and then apparently blame the game for not representing Google's AI properly? Why? Personally, I believe the story is good exactly because of how wrong every character is. 9S is wrong about how to feel emotions, Pascal is wrong about how to teach emotions, 2B is wrong about how to be emotionless. They all try to be human so hard but fail in so many stupid ways we take for granted, or in some ways that are uncanny realistic (Pascal's ending)
Now they try to be human cuz its what they are programmed to do? At least that what I remember, they've been made to reproduce behaviours from human history to satisfy some big AI
I mean after all, human brains are a neural networks that can produce specialized neural networks, you shouldn't assume that emotions are somehow special and have to be "programmed in" by using loads of data simply because we don't know if that's is really required. Emotions could very well be just a side effect of evolution trying to enforce certain behaviour, same way robots in Nier Automata get them after countless of retries
The point of game's ending is not "sacrifice". Game explicitly tells you what it is actually, by giving up your save file you may be helping some horrible person to finish this game. I mean, it's not as on point as Coca Cola ad idea was stolen from (stolen is wording used by Yoko himself so yeah Xd), but it is still a funny little thing to think about when you decide to give up a savefile.
To summarize, no, Nier Automata doesn't think that it is a "smart" game, it is also EXTREMELY cheap which might be publisher's fault for all I know really. But also it has unhealthy followers after it as has any weird product that will read too much into it. I prefer not to interact with communities of media I find to be good, cuz what I heard about Avatar community is kinda scary. And honestly, would advice you to do the same
Now then I think about it
2 characters that came closest to "success" in this game are severely detroyed on the inside either to the point of insanity or complete apathy. Dunno if it means anything, but kinda funny
THIS
I didn’t know people were allowed to do anything other than blindly praise this game.
I can 100% see why you ended up giving up on the game, the 9s segment could have been implemented much better than it was alongside the saving mechanics you mentioned. (Plus yeah, the degeneracy of the game is pretty gross in hindsight)
But I do think it's unfair to treat the 3rd playthrough with A2/9S as the same as the first two. It takes place after the events of "ending B" and has a lot of pay off for concepts and plot points you said were strange (like 9S basically being transformed into an unfeeling husk based on 2Bs constantly trying to stop him from expressing himself, and why 2B seems to care so much about 9S whenever he dies despite always dismissing him) alongside different bosses and plot revelations.
The endings C/D are like the two real endings with ending E being a bonus cutscene, and i'd recommend at least checking out the "third playthrough" as it's different enough from the first two. but at the same time I understand if the game has frustrated you enough 🙌
About the emotion thing, 2B and 9S have been doing missions for ages, and there’s an official comic about it somewhere, basically 9S keeps learning too much about YorHa, they end him and wipe his memory, 2B remembers, and it keeps happening over and over, and she has to keep hiding her emotions while still trying to keep him safe, like “There’s no point trying to solve unsolvable problems”, she’s constantly trying to lead 9S astray to keep him alive this time, but she never succeeds.
Also the whole ending thing is more impactful than more time passes, so E is pretty solid being right at the end, thankfully it keeps all your weapons and their levels, but I don’t know about chips though. Also also about the camera skirt thing, go to system, settings, camera, and there’s an option called “Vertical Auto Adjust” turn all the way down, camera doesn’t move at all… so at least you don’t need to worry about it while running.
This vid was frustrating. One, the endings were never apart of the marketing, iirc barely anyone knew there was 26 endings to the game when it launched, and most people who have already played the game will tell you “no, there’s really just 5 endings, the rest are joke endings.” And two, barely anyone defends 2B being hot because of lore reasons, anyone in the community would point you to the Yoko Taro interview where he directly says he just likes girls and most of the community accept that answer, you didn’t need to make an entire section of the video about how people defend it because of lore reasons cause this is the first time I’ve heard of anyone saying this. Also the whole “the camera forces you to look at 2B’s ass” I don’t think is very valid at all, when I’m in combat or walking around the camera is behind the main character, like in a billion games, with this logic ever Souls game would be forcing to look at the play character’s ass. And some of the scenes you used in your video to point this out were very poorly placed, Simone’s boss introduction and 2B choking 9S, most people and the camera focus on what’s right in front of you and in the case of Simone the camera pans out to be right behind you so you can go from the cutscene to gameplay instantly, you aren’t going to be focused on 2B’s ass when a boss is coming down to fight you or when one main character is choking another. I’m not trying to bash you, I’m just saying I feel like this video was very much not well researched, I’m sorry
I'll reply more extensively after replaying it, but for now, I'd just like to say you didn't like it because you're not a patient person, so your whole perspective is off.
Playing it on a higher difficulty level would do the trick.
honestly im surprised you struggled with the saving so much-- i died once during my first 2b playthrough and enjoyed having to go back to my body to collect my things- i like the saving feature saince it contributes to the lore. when you die it's the androids actually getting destroyed and respawning is them sending in another android. saves are you literally uploading your "data" to the cloud for the new units to download upon "respawn"- which i think is rlly cool!! im probably biased since this is one of my favourite games, but the save system is very cool and contributes to the overall game, and i dont think the difficulty on normal warrants it being any more. if you played on hard its a different story and i think *thats* where the whole "its a soulslike!" comes from as it's genuinely challenging.- but it's only availible after a full playthrough for a reason c:
Finishing tbis game was just a chore to me - beating the same looking enemies for three playthrough, with two of them being almost identical, in a world that didn't had any interesting spot and a story that wasn't really for me.
I would have probably loved the story when I was 15, but it felt kinda annoying to me: while I adore the characters, the whole "philisophy" thing just felt like it tried too much for me.
The soundtrack was good, but I've... heard better. Definitely. Not a single track remained in my head.
The combat system was really basic and, sadly, not fun: the boss fights were not hard, just annoying, and most enemies felt like damage sponges.
I tried to like the game, I really did, cuz it's apoarently one of my friend favourite game, but I just... Didn't.
It has some strong points, but not enough to make me like it.
I have the same general opinion! I just don't see hoe that game is a "perfect masterpiece"
Dont worry too much about it, just means you are concave skulled.
This game is phenomenal. The music is amazing, the character design is fantastic, the characters themselves are memorable, the gameplay is fluid and snappy, and the story is compelling and thought provoking. The only flaws are occasional pacing issues and some issues with performance and graphics. No idea why anyone would dislike this game.
I dislike it and I don’t even know why lol. I gameplay is fun, the story is cool, the concept design is eye catching and the soundtrack is the best I’ve heard but nothing about it gripped me at all. When a major character death happened I didn’t care like,,, at all. I kept thinking eventually I’d get it but I didn’t. I think it just clicks for some people and doesn’t for others.
@TenderNoodle maybe because u know they're androids and not human. So didn't get attached ro rhem
Dang, I really, REALLY disagree with this. But hey... we are all different.
Automata was such a huge game for me back in 2017... never had a game make me feel the feelings I felt with this one.
Haha I’m glad you put this video out. I was looking forward to it!
Thank you ❤
Thank you Mari!!
Watching videos like these where I disagree with almost entirety of a video and not be hateful will bring death to the sane me. Though I agree with the lack of enemy variety. But pitting it against Shadow of the Colossus is quite deceptive framing from your part. As firstly, it's Shadow of the Colossus, and there's like, less than 10 people in this world who could stand alongside the director of that game. Sony literally gives Fumito Ueda a blank cheque every-time he makes a game. Which makes it 2 time (I don't think he got one for Ico) but regardless, on the other hand , Yoko Taro, before Automata, used to make quite low budget games. Even if due to help of a producer in Platinum, he could make a sequel in a bigger budget, knowing about the industry, I don't think for a single moment he got the same budget as Platinum's other first rate budget. Soooooo, yeah, for what they did, and what we got and how well it was received, I believe they did a good enough job. but, after that he got into a gatcha game, so cook that fraud.
You are not allowed to have this opinion. Though im joking, thinking the music is bad is literally insane 😂.
We never get games that are actually interesting in their storytelling with intelligent concepts put across. It's unlike anything else and it's weird which we should demand more of.
41:23 The point isn’t that robots are sentient. The point was to show senitency as a spectrum. Individual machines in the game are not as advanced as the androids, but they are advanced enough to try and imitate humans as means for self-preservation. A robot doesn't need to fully understand what's fear to say "I'm scared," only the context in which it needs to be said for self-preservation. It doesn’t need to fully understand religon to act as part of one, and it doesn’t need to fully understand reproduction and inheritence and growth to try and continue the lineage of a king.
The point is to explore what an imitation of humans but with limited capacity and capabilities might look like. Sure, the first time you saw robots that looked sentient, that should've popped this question in a shallow way, but what did you think when you saw robots pretending to be sisters? was it just "oh, another sentient robots"?
About androids having emotions... yes, technically, AI can be restricted with rules, at least some models of AI, with some rules. The most popular models today, Neural Networks, cannot. You can't meaningfully dictate rules because we don't have a deep enough understanding of what happens there. It's just enormous mathematical functions.
It's not hard to imagine a scanerio where a far more advanced AI model is trained to shape itself based on humanity and naturally develops emotions. The notion that if such a thing is possible, it still might not be possible for us to dictate clear rules to it, is very, very reasonable.
im so happy to read that everyone else is commenting that they actually liked nier automata. I agree maybe it's not a game for everyone, but it is undeniably one of the best games of all time that most people haven't played.
Did your friend really say 2B's ass or is that just your assumption? I feel like people from the outside looking in just assumes that's why people like the game
Yes, we had a good laugh about it
I agree with many of your criticisms, but still enjoyed the game. It's not a masterpiece, but it's definitely interesting.
The worst part, to me, was how weak the main story beats were. It's a good story, on paper, but I BARELY realized some of the main plot points because of the way they presented them - the fact that the androids going insane was their planned extinction was almost an afterthought, when it should have been one of the most gripping and emotional moments. I think what the game did best was all the worldbuilding surrounding that main chain of events.
I was also really bothered by the way 9S was driven to complete insanity when 2B died. I'm so sick of stories where a man is obsessed with a woman. People talk about "Oh, the tragedy of Nier Automata is that they're crazy in love!" and I'm like.... Is it? Because to me, the developers really missed the mark there. I don't care at all about this little twink because they made him SO boring and then IMEDIATELY insane after she died. Another reveal that was barely attention grabbing was the fact that 2B was destined to kill him over and over again. Maybe if you had made him interesting in any way or made me care for their relationship, I would have cared about that. But by the end of 2B's playthrough I was literally just starting to think "oh, she finally sees him as a little brother!" while the back of my mind was going "they're supposed to be a couple, aren't they...". And then 9S' entire arc was such a joke to me.
PS: surprised you didn't mention A2's ass in the last section. I feel like they took special care making her animation and it's so disturbing. At least 2B has clothes ??
I just found your channel and I have to say that great editing and writing aside, I truly respect that you actually speak your mind about not liking all the anime tropes common in JRPGs.
On the topic of the video, I feel very much like you do, I vibe with about 80% of the game and tried to enjoy it so much, as there were hints everywhere of Jungian and Nietzchean psychology(yeah i know I sound like a massive poser), both of which i deeply enjoy, but man, it's like the director read a single paragraph in each author's Wikipedia and decided to riff in their main idea during the course of a 60-80 hour long game, at 20 hour intervals where the story just loops for no other reason than pleasing completionists that enjoy beating and re-beating every game they play and without any respect for the player's time.
I can kinda see how they thought minimal storytelling would be a good idea, seeing as Zelda, Dark Souls and mostly horror games actually pull it off, but without the deep, rewarding, complex mechanics or at least a short runtime. Like for real I'd rather play some tropey, weeby ass 30 hour RPG to chill with than this behemoth, meandering weeby ass game for people that have never read a philosophy/psychology book, although I admit it might be a good entryway for anyone interested in those topics, I'd really rather "try" to read and understand (but fail) a Nietzsche book, it's much less time consuming, there are less camera angles up the protagonist's behind, and it's the actual source material. Or I dunno read/watch Bladerunner, a movie and book that actually does something with the topic of what it means to be a human without fumbling for 50 hours trying to raise interesting questions but sounding like a highschooler who had his first philosophy class.
The game that I feel is everything Nier Automata strived but failed to be, is Signalis, despite being a different genre, its just as proud of copying other works of fiction and literature but actually raises interesting questions that are not only relevant to straight males in their anime figure filled attic.
I disagree with almost all of your points, but I will say that personally I never saw 2B as sexualized throughout my playthrough (in fact I remember only noticing A2's butt during her 'hacking' section near the end of the game) so it honestly really bothered me to see how people sexualize her outside of the game. I love the entire DrakenNier franchise and Yoko Taro has a great sense of humour (Drakengard 3 is hilarious) so I get it, but I do personally feel that it undermines the message of her being more than an object. I really hate how she's been reduced to a talking sex toy after the entire game is an exploration of what it means to be human.
Also although you might get tired of its grindy nature, it sounds like a lot of your issues would be addressed storywise if you played Nier Replicant which predates Automata.
I thought she was pretty sexualised in the game as well but also in the anime which I watched. There was butt shots anytime she fought enemies. Lots of focus on her thighs and crotch as well. I'm fine with this sort of thing with characters like Bayonetta where she is a sexual character but 2B isn't. It just felt out of place.
invisible walls was a real big let down, like big time. it took the fun of exploration out of it. dat arse was fire tho
Very interesting to see a different opinion on this game I suppose. But I truly do feel that the attitude is a little too passive in some areas and misses the point on what the said "missed mark" even is about in this story. I do agree on some points but there are some others that really just feel like it was completely overlooked based on personal opinion rather than intended portrayal. That and it became clear that frustration blinded you from experiencing things as intended.
There are some story beats that confused or caused you to formulate specific opinions on how things should be changed. It is because Automata isn't a standalone story where it gives all the context in one game. Which is fair because unfortunately the story can be convoluted within the Automata universe since there are story plays and literal important lore lines being read out in concerts that weren't heard anywhere else. But I also feel like this was done because they didn't want to make the story in the game span over 70 hours just to experience it all. This to me just signifies who wishes to pay attention to it all or not.
But a lot of stuff mentioned in this review has reasons behind them that make sense to me. You're not digging deep enough and you aren't wanting to which is completely valid since you don't HAVE to. So I hope that this counter-commentary is met without bias. Because dismissing anyone who may want to counterpoint is rather disingenuous and pretentious to just put out your own opinion and plug your ears and not hear them out. This goes for anyone else who wishes to read through this as well.
twitlonger.com/show/n_1ss98iu
Nice commentary of 2B killing "God" the entire time. I forgot that 9S is related to the creator of YorHa. Though it could've been an afterthought of Yoko Taro to connect 9S to creator of YorHa to create the irony to begin with.
@@makotoshiro318 it is something that is missed by many but my mind was blown when I realized it circled back to the beginning... which you think "well of course duh" considering the whole theme is about a never ending cycle.
Like the only time it stopped is when A2 stopped. And I remember that sticking out like a sore thumb because I've never experienced "hey stop attacking the boss".
Most of the love for the game comes from the feel it gives - everything in the game feels... off. The designs of the androids and enemies, the gameplay, the music (especially the music), the story. My friend, who played the game and didn't like it, said that the game made him sleepy. The game feels like a dream, where nothing makes sence, it has a very melancholic atmosphere.
It has themes of existentialism, but has little to say in itself. My guess is that the main idea of the game is how everyone has to have something to live for to give themselves a reason to live: "Each robot had a trasure. Each of them had a different shape". Everyone's reason to live - "treasure" - is diffirent and when someone looses their "treasure", they could loose themselves.
Like 9S. He was somewhat fine with finding out that YoRHa was created on a lie. But when he lost 2B, he lost his mind and skyrocketed into madness. 2B was his "trasure".
A2 represents someone who lost their "treasure" and isn't able to find a new one - her combrates died, she was supposed to die with them. Every time she tries to do good, something goes wrong - she helps Pascal, but he looses his village, she promises to take care of 9S to 2B, but she ends up killing him and herself in ending D.
It's hard to understand themes because they're kept blured, but when you understand them - there is nothing complex about it. References to famous philosophers exist to somewhat tie up the themes to existentialism.
Firstly, this is a well made video and power to you for making it.
This made me think a lot about the way that I react to people disagreeing/critiquing things that I like. I think when there are strong disagreements over certain points, it makes me question, "Hey, why don't you expect more out of a game in this area" or "Are my opinions wrong?" Which, I think, is fine for me to question myself on.
When you feel strongly about a piece of media, sometimes its hard to take criticism objectively. At least this is a flaw for me personally, idk if it applies across the board.
It's not even that I disagree with all of your points, but a lot of them just don't hit hard with me or don't outweigh the PROs for me. I have a lot more experience with JRPGs so you'll have to forgive me there haha. Nonetheless, this made me deep in thought and I think I'll pull out some positive conclusions.
The story is what people like of Automata, everything else (ok music is good) is complete utter shit.
These kind of people should just play all yoko taro previous games then and then come back here tell us in the eye and say that crap of "Automata is a masterpiece" when is not. Is inferior to many games of the time, but the fanservice, the story, writing carried the experience but what you will be doing for 90% of the experience is just trash or just average or serviceable.
I played Drakengard and Nier 1 people can't tell me jack shit. Also I 100% automata because "game masterpiece, buy it play it won't regret it" and I did and sold it as soon as I 100% because games are expensive in Vzla, what a pile of shit.