This New Japanese Watch Brand Is Here to Stay! A Look At Naoya Hida
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- čas přidán 21. 04. 2022
- Naoya Hida is a new Japanese watch brand to put on your radar. Their style is minimalistic yet with high attention to detail and a lot of exciting projects coming in the future. Let me know how you like it in the comment section.
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#naoyahida - Jak na to + styl
Hi everybody, thanks for weighing in with your views, I've been reading the comments with some interest. It's fascinating to see how people have reacted to the piece. I also want to thank Marko for the excellent job with the commentary and the video. In case anyone is interested in knowing more, I wanted to provide some additional information about my particular watch.
I first got in touch with Naoya Hida back in March 2019. I found out about him through Watches by SJX, who's taste I really respect, and I happened to be in Tokyo so I asked to meet him and see his watch. Hida-san was wearing his first prototype and he was planing to make seven pieces in his first year of business. My piece in the video (serial #4) is the fifth watch Hida-san and his team ever made and he delivered it to me in December 2019.
To address a few concerns that have come up:
The dial is quite an ambitious design for a small team because it is mostly made in-house (the have to order it as a blank but they do everything else themselves) and it is akin to making a pocket watch dial but with all those steps miniaturized. The minute and sub second tracks are made as separate components allowing them to have a radial brush finish, different from the main dial, which is mirror polished and then bead blasted to provide the frosted finish. The various components are then eventually assembled together. The markings that are not numerals are micro-machined and then filled by hand, which is a very different process from pad printing, a simpler and more typical way of making a dial. The hand engraving is extremely challenging. The dial was designed to be hand engraved which is why it is 2-3x thicker than a typical watch dial. It allows for a deep carving that is then filled with a synthetic lacquer. Engraving is progressively more difficult if the lines are thicker, deeper and/or straighter as you have to maintain control with greater force and over longer distances. The charm of hand engraving is the slight tremor in the engraver's hand and the small burrs left when you are literally scooping metal away. Not everyone will like that effect.
As for the blemishes on the dial and the uneven bluing of the hands, I actually never noticed them. Under the bright lights necessary for good macro photography, the steep angles that are used to highlight details on the watch, as well as the high magnification that you are viewing the watch at you can certainly see some imperfections but during the few years I have owned and worn the watch, I never noticed any of these things so I got a bit of a chuckle out of the discovery.
The movement is nothing exciting but I see why Hida-san selected the 7750. He specifically wanted a 9 o'clock sub seconds that would fit exactly between the central pinion and the edge of the dial on a 37mm diameter case because aesthetically it makes the most sense and it also harkens back to the JB Champion inspiration. The 7750 suits the purposes that Hida-san intended. It is flexible enough to be modified. He deconstructed large sections of the movement to isolate just the time-keeping parts and then created a new plate and a new ratchet click as well. It is a proven movement and there are no shortage of parts for servicing. As for the lack of a sapphire caseback, it's not a movement that is that fun to look at and I'd rather he save on the thickness of the watch with a solid caseback.
If you are a small 3 man team that wants to do things in-house then you have to make decisions on what to prioritize. Creating a movement from scratch just for this watch would be quite unfeasible and also of very limited benefit. How do you know this movement you made from scratch is actually reliable? How does a third party watchmaker service it? It is worth remembering that many watch brands suffered and sometimes went bust because of movements that worked at first but could not be assembled reliably or had a hidden flaw that would pop up later. If you ever catch me in person, feel free to ask me about this, there are some interesting stories out there.
316 vs 904 steel - if you can, check out some older examples of Rolexes from when they transitioned from 316 to 904. The 904 is more corrosion resistant and shows less pitting as a result. 904 is harder to work with and its benefits are not apparent until the watch is much older which is why most companies don't use it.
In my years as a collector, I have personally owned and traded nearly 200 watches. I have gone through so many watches partly because I really like these things but partly because I don't think I can really appreciate a watch until I own it. I ended up with a lot of watches that just didn't work out and so I would sell them hopefully to someone who would like them more than I did. Words, photos and videos can give you some sense of the watch but owning it and living with it gives you a very different understanding of it. Oddly enough, I also felt like I improved my understanding when I started to work on watch collaborations with various brands. Then, you really start to consider the thought process of the designer and you appreciate it at another level.
I bought the NH Type 1B because it instantly appealed to me. What Hida-san wanted to do totally resonated with me. It's not a re-issue of a vintage watch, it is something much more interesting and complicated than that because it is blending some vintage techniques with some modern techniques and with his unique aesthetic vision. What Hida-san does with the dial, especially among the earliest production, is still a little raw but I believe it has great potential. The cases and the hands are, in the metal, actually quite special. The case shape and buckle is crisp and precise in a way that stamped cases are not. The hands, because they are milled and not stamped, are shapely in a way that is also quite unique in the world of wristwatches. The overall aesthetic design of the watch is very, very refined despite the finishing having some imperfections. I can definitely see why people might be turned off if they were to look at the watch as a list of features but for me, the watch is far greater than the sum of its parts. If you have the opportunity, try to see one in the metal because I think it's worth the effort.
tldr; I bought it because I really liked it, warts and all. Thanks for reading!
Thank you for the response Mark and for addressing many of the complaints.
Taking into account this was their first offering and the fact that they are a three-man team, I still would like to see how this compares to their latest work and how their quality has progressed since then.
This is all fine- the time to make by hand, the three man team, etc, but not worth 20.000$ to the consumer. If three guys built the great wall of china it would be very admirable and they probably put the work in, but in the end not that much value to the consumer.
Be that as it may, the watch is still hideously overpriced for what it is..
This guy really wants us to like and buy this watch as if he’s getting a cut. Dude whatever you say it’s not worth 20k. Thank you but I’ll buy grand Seiko any time of the day over this rubbish.
Or I’ll just buy a Patek Aquanaut.
The finish looks quite rough, especially if they are asking for $20k.
Honestly yeah. Making 40 pieces a year and having them look like this while asking 20k isn't reasonable to me.
Agreed. Looks very rough, needs to improve quality for this price. I've seen $500-1000 watches with much better finishing.
Haha geez I thought he was gonna say like $1700 to $2000 at the most holy hell I guess I dont know anything about this movement.
WTF
@@BabyJesus66 right? Like Knot Design
The dial doesnt look clean under the lens, alot of scratches, is it part of the design or bad quality control. Jesus, with scratches like this, stainless steel, eta movement no decoration for 17kUSD is really not worth it.
With that price point, it cost more than precious metal watch with beautiful display caseback decoration from alange&sohne saxonia, breguet classique 5907, Patek Philippe Calatrava, Vacheron Constantin Patrimony, Jaeger-LeCoultre Master Grande Ultra Thin, Grand Seiko Elegance, credor GCBE995, Glashütte Original Senator and many many more. Are they really serious?
@Harry Balls It must be an out of season april fools joke.
20k for a simple watch from a new brand with a movement that looks like it’s $200 and no clear caseback, I’m still wondering why it’s expensive
20k for that? lol. bro I'd rather spend those 20k on a kikuchi nakagawa with excellent finishing, even the cashback is completely black polished painstakingly.Even a Gs white birch with dual escapement is 10k is way better 10x lots of potential???stop playing marco. you in the business my man. i hope this brand doesn't end up as tulloch. died due to overpricing.
The macro shots showing the imperfections at 20k I don’t know
I've had my eye one these for a minute now. It is really well done. Thanks for the video!
Beautiful looking watch but the price tag is, imo, ridiculous. Much better options for that price
At this price, you are getting into A Lange Sohne and JLC, Vacheron. Cmon.
The max I would pay for this is around $2k, even then I don't think it's worth it.
$300.
I hear you, but it is because of the handmade parts of a master builder. However, the anonymity and the eta movement, cmon. I would pay 3500$ for it.
Reminds me of Baltic MR01 but wow $20k! Excessive for what you getting here.
You only loose when you sell as my mentor Mr Pekin used to say
This looks like a $800 micro-brand watch. The finishing looks rough, the bluing on the hands is uneven. I guess it just looks like a Baltic. Nothing looks premium. If I’m looking at a Japanese watch that is 4 times the price of a Grand Seiko, I expect the finishing to be flawless. This is not even close.
Everything on this dial is hand engraved. Comparing Baltic to this is slap in the face to a true artisan. You probably are better off with machined watches as they have that “premium” appearance you’re looking for. Slight imperfections are a true sign of real hand work.
Baltic
@@watching_nycTHe defects here are much more noticable than other handcreated watches we have seen on this channel..
@@watching_nyc Dornblüth & Sohn make true handmade pieces, for a fraction of the cost. Made to perfection to Lange&Sohne Standard. Also low volume, pure hand craft. Naoya are is overpriced and not very nice. I held one in Person, its bad. Sadly. I thought its just this model, but in this video its the same uncleanness. Usually Japan made is top, but very very sadly not these. Not for 20K. Hida needs to get his Finishing at a much higher level, to ask Patek Price. You may get a Pitzmann Seoul instead if you up for sub 40 asian artisan craftsmann ship. These are stunning!
@@watching_nyc
Oh bugger off with the true artisan nonsense. I am not interested in paying for watchmaker’s side gig.
Thanks Marko for the great video, I think they feel like the Japanese version of Kudoke. The finish is very Industrial reminds me of Harbring2.
their pricing is confusing...still lovely looking watches
What a beautiful time piece. My kind of execution. TIME simple execution! Wow
Using the 7750 as the base movement is a really interesting idea and I sure that I am not alone in thinking that there could be scaled up models that adhere to the overall style using more of the movement. Just before finishing typing this I heard a $17500 price tag but in all fairness missed whether it is white gold to not.
Nice! 37mm good for smaller wrists. I find 39mm as a reasonable lower end for my 7.75 inch wrist.
You lost me at the price
Looks great, I enjoy the type 1C
I know the watches are hand made in small numbers, but the prize seems very high for what you get. Especially when compared to the likes of Habring2, which also has movements based on (or rather _used_ to be based on) the 7750. The 3-hander small seconds Habring2 Felix is about one third of the price of the watch in this video. The Habring2 caliber A11 is better finished too, judging by the pictures.
The watch is very good looking, though.
Ah, the first reasonable debate.
Nailed it👍👍👍
Not feeling the love for this one, Marko. When you look at something like the Kudoke 1 which is a similar general aesthetic done so much better with in-house movement, and on display with hand-engraving, for a LOT less, this is vastly over-priced.
The $850 Baltic MR01 looks like this one. Even more appealing. 20k? Thats fcking arrogant price
Nice video mate. 🥃
Nice Simple looking watch
I think $17-23K US might be a bit steep for a SS watch with an ETA movement, but maybe that's just me. Having said that, if the entire dial is hand-engraved, that's a large point in its favour. Also, not many people realize that the base 7750 movement is capable of being crazy accurate and isochronous. I have seen 'Watchtime' tests of run-of-the-mill 7750 chronographs vary only +/-1 second over the full range of positions.
😂😂😂😂😂
3, then 1, then 2 for me. I didn't realize that the minute hands were slightly bent to be closer to the dial. I always thought it was some form of distortion. That's a great touch. Do any other watches do this?
Yes they’ve been doing this since marine chronometers I have a 1930s watch with slightly downward bent hands. The details are insane regardless of age
when i found this on my vintage watches i always thought it was damaged during repair/tinkering in the past
A very simple watch with complex details.
I Like the 1B with the off-centre seconds.
What I don't like, is a 17.000 price tag, when there is 7750 inside, although simplified.
Stunning 🔥🔥🔥
Something new 👏
This is why I watch this channel….
Obviously it's another level of finishing but this watch is pretty similar to the Baltic MR01 which is currently sold out but less than 600 euro retail price.
Its like a Breguet but without the guilloche or the hands. I'd love to see them do one with a rose gold dial, that would be stunning as well. However I see the price is extraordinarily high and you have to remember this is a close competitor to a Habring2 (Felix I think) that also has a 7750 base. Yet the Habring is 1/4th the price of this but certainly not a quarter of the quality. Its like buying a Habring but at holy-trinity prices.
YES!
I see a flat crown with a big diameter: beautiful!!!
Definitely the Type 3A, without a doubt.
woooOOOO "slick" is right! That is a sexy watch right there.
Handmade can't be an excuse for all these imperfections. It's like the handmade watch straps I've gotten in the past that came to me and looked terrible.
I like the aesthetic. But at such a small amount of manufacturing, all these imperfections make no sense. They should be going through multiple blued hands until it comes out perfect. The edges of the engraved numbers should be filed so they are even. The brushing on the minute track doesn't look good.
For what they are asking for these watches, they should look better than this.
So I'm here to eat some of my words. Though the pricing is still a contention point, I just checked out their recent collab with The Armoury. The watch is good. Like real good. Easily my favorite of all their designs.
You should also check Hentschel Hamburg
Hentschel is largely unknown but they make stunning watches.
I agree! I actually own a 18k red gold Hentschel H1 Chronometer which is absolutely beautiful. It has a very well made and elegant looking slim case but the dial and hands are even more impressive. The only thing where it lacks perfection is the movement imho. It's absolutely beautiful looking even with classic ruby gold chatons and heat-blued screws and other lovely decorations but it's basically 'only' a NOS AS-based movement which has been modified a lot. That said, at 12k Euros back in 2020 this is FAR more impressive than this watch shown here imho. Would love to see Hentschel on this channel!
@@SinnerAndSaint lovely piece! My favourite is the H2 with the sector dial
$20K price is ridiculous. Finish of the watch is not good. Saxonia ref. 216.027 cost about $18K and its God for this average Japan watch.
A stunning and timeless beauty . Type 3 would be my fav too .
Thanks for featuring the watch, Marko!
Excellent job on the Moser btw.
@@Nefville thank you!
Maybe future seiko companion
That's a good watch
Even the photos in their own website didn't look like they were well finished... The style is similar to Baltic mr01, but I feel that the Baltic is much better proportioned and better value too
ETA in a Japanese made watch??? Wouldn't a nice seiko movement make more sense?? Or a rebranded seiko??
Those are some very good looking pieces but, $17K to $20K I don’t see it at all💯
It's really an amazing piece. I also just discovered their brand on Instagram recently. I really like the Type2B, it's like a pseudo-sector dial and the Type 1C. I can't wait to see their new releases soon! Another great video Marko!
excelnete
20k? I am staring to believe that money indeed grows on trees.
👍
Really very well constructed and built watches.
The C1 on a bead of rice bracelet would be my favourite.
How is it well constructed? The finishing is pitiful.
@@BabyJesus66 Well from what I saw in the video on my phone it‘s well finished and the ‚rough‘ edges are a design element.
The way they‘ve adapted the movement to the case is a nice idea too.
The gauge of the dials is well chosen for the deep-diving engraving of the hours and minute markers. I‘d like to take a peak at the backside of the dial. It must be hollowed out at the right spots to enable the limited height of the watch.
I like the ideas behind the watch.
😍❤️💖
Love stretching into the Japanese indie. Somebody of your [hard earned] prominence in the watch world should be able to a Hajime Asaoka and/or kikuchi nakagawa for review. Hope you could make it happen
I like the watch, but have two problems with it.
1) It looks like a Baltic.
2) The index dot at 9 should match the size of the other hour markers, but its size matches that of the minute indexes, making it difficult to read and visually wrong.
Baltic is just a ripoff design to begin with.
@@BabyJesus66 Specifically what is it ripping off?
I'm not entirely convinced. Finishing might be inhouse but definetly does not hold up macrofootage and the movement is pedestrian to say the least.
GOD BLESS YOU MARCO. I AM VERY PROUD OF YOU AND VERY HAPPY FOR YOU. I HOPE ALL OF YOUR DREAMS COME TRUE MY FRIEND. I HOPE YOU HAD THE BEST AND HAPPIEST CHRISTMAS OF YOUR ENTIRE LIFE. 🙏
Stooooop spaming!!!!!!
Unsane price.Worth no more than 1.5 k USD.
$297 at Macy's 30% sale
Very beautiful watch, great specs
GRAIL
Legibility, accuracy, beauty. The materials are not so important, and even the finest finishes are available at a lesser price-point.
After getting exposed to Kurono Tokyo. I’m just not sold on Naoya Hida & Co. They need to do better. But I’m not disregarding their potential. They just need to step up their game.
I do like the design of the watch a lot, but the finishing quality is pretty horrendous ( you can actually see the blemishes on their official photos on the website too). Scratches and marks on the dial, uneven bluing of the hands, paint application inside engraving is uneven (you can see on the "1" at 10 o'clock), and dirt at the edge of the dial, etc. I'm not sure if it's because this is a prototype, but if I was delivered with this level of craftsmanship I would be extremely upset for $20k.
Oh man, where to begin? You pay for exclusivity - that’s it. This product could have been anything as long as it’s rare, the fact that it’s a watch is a bonus. I think your commenters are absolutely correct, the dial finishing is dreadful, presumably flogging the ‘handmade’ factor but handmade finishes don’t have to be rough. In the hands of a talented engraver handmade finishes can be absolutely perfect. The cynicism of using 904 steel; Rolex uses that for their divers because of its resistance to corrosion compared to 306, why is this brand uses 904 except marketing and inflated prices? And how disingenuous that they don’t mention ETA on their website. Reminds me of another Japanese brand (name no names) which uses Miyota movements on £5k watches - at least the dials are better finished…
This comment is all the time I have for this brand.
Waitlist is so out of fashion nowadays. People with thousand of $$$ must write an application and wait to be selected to buy this watch brand.
Dial/finishing looks a little sloppy for that price point 🤷🏻♂️
This or the baltic mr?
Depends what you prefer and if you have enough funds for the Naoya. I'd say get both if you can.
An absurd price. You could buy 2 Laine watches, that are FAR superior, for the price of this watch.
I don't understand why watchmakers continue to make dials with cut-off indices. It's lazy design. Still, I greatly admire Naoya Hida. I admire Kikuchi Nakagawa even more.
🙃
Poor design, finish and movement for the money!
I wish them luck anyway, they have a massive room to improve.
The baltic MR01 is 5% the cost and looks better.
This looks like seiko presage
Beauty. But thank you, I'd rather have Baltic for $100.
Dornblüth & Sohn make true handmade pieces, for a fraction of the cost. Made to perfection to Lange&Sohne Standard. Also low volume, pure hand craft. Naoya are is overpriced and not so very nice. I held one in Person, its bad. Sadly. I thought its just this model, but in this video its the same uncleanness. Usually Japan made is top, but very very sadly not these. Not for 20K. Hida needs to get Finishing at a much higher level, to ask Patek Price. You may get a Pitzmann Seoul instead if you up for sub 40 asian artisan craftsmann ship. These are stunning!
If you can call a $20,000 watch a daily wear you have waaaaayyy more money than I do my friend.
There's a sucker born every day.
They lost me at ETA 7750 for $20k. Ridiculous. Practically the Japanese version of Hublot.
For 20k i would buy vc amircana . I wouldn’t touch that
20k ??
Oh dear! Looks like someone is going to have a lot of stock left, 20k! Close up on the dial doesn’t look good, nowhere near the quality of GS
Wow - so expensive for a watch with such bad finishing. crazy
17k to 23K. Yeah no I will get the Baltic a a bunch of Swiss watches if you don’t mind.
Baltic MR01 is the father of this watch...
I like the overall aesthetics but the finishing? the price? the movement? that just doesn't work for me. I am also surprised how you can call this "execution is super clean" when clearly its terrible....
The Japanese marketing guy exploiting Japan’s reputation for high quality. Unfortunately not everything made in Japan is worthy. This is the Daihatsu of watches with a Fiat engine and priced like a Lexus.
I'm sorry, but I'm not impressed with the finishing, the movement finishing is pretty poor too.
Not very impressive For the price .Good Quartz is more affordable & more accurate, lasts longer , service cost is very low.
spend 20.000$ for a brand you cant show off to anybody. Yeah.
any watch brand that doesnt make its own movement is over-rated!!
Awfull.
it doesn´t look any better than a $300 Chinese Patek homage. Even an $800 Longines has far more class and heritage, and the name doesn´t sound like a Fascist war criminal in Xinjiang China.
Cannot love them all. For this price point I would prefer to buy some other independent watches.
17,000 to 23,000 USD... All limited? Finishing? 7750 Movement? GUYS I PRESENT TO YOU THE JAPANESE HUBLOT! Ridiculous by all means.
This things looks terrible 😞 finishing on the numerals is just so bad. Then add a eta caliber, stainless steel, unsigned crown and you have the makings of a 2-3k watch max. The comments are a good representation that you can’t just slap a $20k price tag on whatever you want get people drooling. $20k gets you a gold Breguet that is finished to the moon!
the craftsmanship is too bad ,not worth it for this amount of money
Reminds me of Baltic MR01 but wow $20k! Excessive for what you getting here.