Arsenal's INVINCIBLES or Xabi Alonso's Bayer Leverkusen? HOT TAKES!!🔥 | ESPN FC
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- čas přidán 10. 06. 2024
- Alexis Nunes is joined by Shaka Hislop to debate whether Arsenal's Invincibles of 2004 are a better team than Xabi Alonso's Bayer Leverkusen, who are just three games away from an entire season unbeaten.
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Arsenal “Invincible” for the League but lost to everything else during that season on a chance of getting Quintuple (Champion League, FA Cup, League Cup and Community Shield), Leverkusen without question what they doing this season is truly remarkable just 3 games away from a Truly a perfect Tremble
Arsenal in 2003/2004: 26-12-0 after 38 matches. Leverkusen 2023/2024: 27-6-0 after 33 (of 34) matches. 27 wins is already better than 26.
But you have to gauge how hard each league is. Do you think 03/04 EPL is weaker than 23/24 Bundesliga?? Do you remember how stacked MU were, how good Liverpool and Chelsea were in 03/04?? Imo, Arsenal going undefeated in that gauntlet of a league, is more impressive than Leverkusen barely tying Stuttgart this year.
@@chriskey7440bayern and dortmund in the champions league semi -/ final. Stuttgart same points like Bayern. Imo bundesliga better than PL nowadays and back then.
@@DerMarcoee I knew you'd say that, but are those teams better than the 03/04 EPL top teams? Dortmund just got smoked by Mainz, and Mainz are in a relegation battle. Do you really think Stuttgart and Bayern could handle MU back then?? Giggs, R7, Rooney, Ferdinand, etc? Then that's when Chelsea got stacked, then add in Liverpool... What I'm saying is, the Bundesliga has always been a great league, but in those early 2000 days, the EPL was a gauntlet haha. I do not think Leverkusen would've stayed undefeated had they played, 03/04 Chelsea, MU, Newcastle, and Liverpool.
@@DerMarcoee I forgot to add RvN at MU too.
@@DerMarcoee you really think Wirtz could've lasted in 03/04 England haha? You think Tah could've lasted, he barely lasted against Qarabag.
The only people that say Arsenal's Invincible season is better are Arsenal fans.
Side-by-side that type of run in the premier league would be better. But then you take into consideration the cup + Europa league + where Leverkusen started (i.e their regular strength compared to Bayern, Dortmund, Leipzig) then it's a no-brainer. Leverkusen's achievement is much bigger (from a Bayern fan).
Epl play 4 matches more. Fyi
@@KLHK1981and in 4 less matches, leverkusen have more wins than arsenal in that invincible season? (27 vs 26). Fyi
Well leverkusen might be treble winners + invincibles so it won't even be close.
that and Arsenals invincibles lost in the league cup, fa cup and champions league 🤦♂
@@logirex well they won only the premier league so ofcourse they lost in the cups 😆
@@logirex which means they were loser elsewhere besides PL?
Arsenal??? Lol.... Leverkusen just broke Juventus' record of consecutive games unbeaten and they're trying to talk about Arsenal.... smh.
1:25 People need to do some research and learn they wernt that bad. 2017 was thier lowest point at 12 and have always been staying top 6 since then. Being incinvible is impressive but lets not act this was a bottom table team when they consitily stayed top 6 of the table
Leverkusen probably played the best season of any club in history and not just because of the results, but also their mentality and tactics.
The Bundesliga is also crazy strong this season, their second best narrowly lost against Madrid in the Semifinals of the CL and their fifth best is in the final, while the best team (Leverkusen) is in the EPL final.
Their fourth best only lost to Madrid by one goal in the R16.
And Leverkusen didn´t lose a single game against all these heavy hitters this season?
It´s not even close between Arsenal and Leverkusen ...
Lol the background. "LM + 10 = GOAT" love it
+VAR, arsenal wouldn't smell the cup😂😂😂😂
Robert Pires dive against Portsmouth
Leverkusen was literally in the relegation battle and then fought to stay up, then go on to set the all time record for undefeated streak in all european comps. First ever Bundesliga undefeated season. A team that was never given a chance to foght for the title turned into the champions and a chance at a treble. This team easily is a bigger achievement than the Arsenal squad. And ita been enjoyable to watch as an outsider, this team is what football os all about, fun and love!
Leverkusen all the way
People are forgetting neverlosen also have not lost in any cup games either
Leverkusen's is better, if they do the double or the trebel. Aint no way they're losing to my home team FC Kaiserslautern, but Atalanta I think will beat them. Leverkusen have been suspect in the EL. Arsenal's team is better but Leverkusen's accomplishment would be better.
Finally a comment with sense
Arsenal better? I bet my whole monthly paycheck that leverkusen can beat Arsenal. Arsenal couldn't handle Bayern, but Leverkusen destroyed Bayern.
@@Tresi-lm7of again you clown, no one is talking about this seasons arsenal 🤡
@@Tresi-lm7of again you 1diot, no one is talking about this seasons arsenal 🤡
Huh? That's a bold claim as a bayern munich fan. Got any evidence, cause u basically just indirectly insulted my team by saying europa league teams should've are beat bayer leverkusen, as well as insulting Dortmund, because we lost to leverkusen in the league and u just implied that Europa teams should've beat leverkusen making bayern by default a worse team than europa league teams. Let tell u this straight, none of the teams in your league are beating leverkusen If bayern a top 4 team in Europe couldn't do u guys have no shot, Dortmund couldn't do it and they're in the UCL finals. U got some serious nerve implying that leverkusen is cheating cause their better than 98% of teams in your league if not 100%, only 2 teams have a chance of beating them and even then it's not a garuntee, Real madrid and Manchester City thats it.
How is this even a conversation
LM+10=GOAT on the board ... facts
Def Leverkusen. Arsenal had like 12 draws and flopped in the cups
Next season leverkusen will fumble like mad 😂😂😂. Once all their stars left😂😂😂
@@KLHK1981😂there stars will stay like there manager xabi Alonso Florian wirtz already confirmed he will stay probably one player will go maybe?(frimpong ) that’s it 😂😂
Europa League is weak compared to Champions League where Arsenal Invincibles played against teams like Prime, Milan Prime, Real Madrid, Prime, Juventus etc
@@Kone347 good point
Not even close,one is close on winning treble,unbeaten,it will never happen again,if Leverkusen is to achieve it.
you forgot one played ucl and the other europa
@@ikhlashasib8256 they also lost in the cup, leverkusen didn't
@@Fschalke1 who cares? Btw fa cup >>>> pokal, that shouldn't even be a conversation lol
Arsenals Team was better individually...but AS a Team Leverkusen IS better...Most of the Players are at the beginning of great carreers...frimpong Wirtz tapsoba koussouno stanisic palacios adli boniface ...WE cant even rate them because they are very young...even their older Players like andrich xhaka Tah schick could still become worldclass cause they are between age 25-30...except hradecky xhaka and Hofmann all are under the age of 30
@@tb2571 corny argument, thats like saying madrid is better individually while lets say 🤔stuttgart as a team is better lol.
different league levels
Arsenal drew 12 games, couldn't beat Portsmouth and only got 90pts, Also needed a Robert Pires dive against Portsmouth for a penalty.
Bayer are undefeated in every competition and have 90pts with 4 less games.
Arsenal invincibles came at the time 88-89 points were considered huge. Definitely better and sets the benchmark, don’t even compare the German league to it.
prem than was Not nearly as good as It Is now Just donte Comper Teams from two different eras
Bundesliga is better than PL this year. Just look at international events. Leverkusen record will be remembered for centuries.
Even as an arsenal fan i would say if leverkeusen stay unbeaten in europe and league, its a better achievement than invincibles who were eliminated in europe.
being unbeaten in all 3 comps is way harder than arsenals. It will never ever happen again.
Arsenal 03/04?! What a joke😂. Did nothing in Europe, got 12 draws in EPL (while scoring hardly 2 goals per game), was knocked out early in the League cup, so how can it be compared to Leverkusen😳? From all the invincible runs- Ajax in 94/95, Milan in 91/92, Steaua from 86'-89' and current Leverkusen- Arsenal 03/04 is by far the least impressive of them all. While those 3 invincibles have their all-time legendary status all over the world-Arsenal invincible is considered legendary ***just*** by British fans, specially among Arsenal fans. For the nuetral fans around the world-this Arsenal is just ordinary.
Leverkusens run is much more impressive.
Nonsense
@@omardevonlittle3817
When arsenal won the invincible season 03/04 (EPL ONLY) only 1 English team got to the UCL Semi finals and that was Chelsea (United went out in the RO16). This season 2 German teams made it to the semi finals of the UCL and one made it to the final. BOTH COULDN'T BEAT LEVERKUSEN.
Again in the Europa 03/04, only one team made it to the semi final, Newcastle, they got knocked out by Marseille. Liverpool went out way earlier in the competition to Marseille as well.
Arsenal had a great season in the EPL ONLY. Showing the lack of quality in the English division on how bad they performed in Europen competition.
Leverkusen has done absolutely amazing in ALL COMPETITIONS they've competed in. Including smashing UCL Semi finalists / Bundesliga farmers Bayern Munich & not losing to UCL finalists Dortmund. Having a better win/draw record than Arsenal when you include all competitions aswell. Not limiting it to just league. It shows Leverkusen has done way better.
Leverkusens invincible season is alot better than Arsenals.
@@omardevonlittle3817
In all 3 its way impressive then arsenal
Why is every1 limiting arsenal record to just a season ?
Did ey not go 49 games u defeated in the league? A full 38 games plus another 11 the following season.
Yes Leverkusen is gonna be awesome too
Cause it's comparing seasons, also arsenal got slapped around outside of the EPL
It's Leverkusen.... Arsenal didn't even touch any other trophy and get near it
Bayern Nevalosing is way better if they win their final league game👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
It's not BayerN .... it's Bayer! A small but important difference. Bayern is a state in Germany and Bayer is the name of the world famous Chemical company. Bayer Leverkusen is the sports club of it.
How stupid. Arsenal's 'invincibles' was only a stat because it was depending on the composition. Leverkusen have an actual unbeaten run.
Leverkusen, these man only got 6 draws fan…. Do uno how mad that is
2003 / 2004 arsenal favorite to win epl along side man u
But Leverkusen last season one Time bottom of the table
So Leverkusen is better
Leverkusen is currently unbeaten in all competitions. Arsenal was only unbeaten in the prem. There’s a world of difference between the two.
of course leverkusen, also EPL was weak as f back in the day, only 2 good teams
Garnacho will be in the arguement for best premier league signing EVER! He was signed for $130,000 ONLY!
Who is Garnacho?
Leverkusen would have lost a game if they were in the CL like Arsenal were in 03/04!
Lies 😂, you're just mad. They smashed UCL Semi finalists Bayern Munich, and drew with UCL finalists Dortmund. You're only saying so because they weren't playing there and using it as an excuse to put Leverkusen down.
BS
blah blah blah.... and the earth is a disc and the PL got a Team in the finals LOL
@@BadGaming367 A different story if they faced Man City or Real Madrid.
@@howardlam6181 not really, their goals conceded is brilliant and they're a strong team. Just cause they've never managed to do what they're doing right now doesn't mean they're not good enough to go against the top.
They nt yet invincible
only one league game left, plus 2 finals
Leverkusen should be new Guiness World record "Invincibles", move over bottler arsenal come Sunday 😉👌🏼
Ill take leverkussen over arsenal anytime That arsenal team pissed their pants in europe against chelsea 🤣🤣🤣
Also, then or now, Arsenal was and is a waaaayyy bigger club!
Leverkusen's streak is simply more impressive. And I say that as a Gooner. Shoutout to Xhaka!
Lev clear
Arsnel have stars like henry viera bayer don't have
They don't need stars! The team works perfect without overpaid stars.
12 draws. Frauds
There has to be an asterisk to Leverkusens run because theyre playing in the europa league. Had they played in champions, they would have lost long time ago. Great achievement, but an asterisk.
smh no asterisk..stop reaching
@@paulpivaral4832 reaching for what? The truth.
And how do you know that? Mere speculations.
If it weren't for the little word if, .... blah blah blah.... if it weren't for the little word if, you would also have realistic assessments. This way you just babble stupid stuff
Would they, really? They beat two out of the four CL semi finalists in the German Championship. Bayern who kicked out Arsenal from the CL they even took to school in their last face to face. Leverkusen currently is the best team playing the best football. City and Real can beat them on a good day, but it could well be the other way around.
They're doing it in a terrible league whilst playing in the Mickey Mouse europa league.
Is this a joke? Arsenal went unbeaten against Abrahamovic Chelsea, Rafa Benitez Liverpool who won the Champions League and peak Ferguson Man Utd, Leverkusen who had no competition because Bayern had their worst year in 15 years. Please tell me the Leverkusen players as good as Henry, Vieira, Bergkamp or Pires?
That's the point? They don't have a super team. And still somehow, they're undefeated. They're on the verge of potentially winning 3 titles in one season.
It's definitely much harder for them than it was for that Arsenal team.
@@jeffreyzepeda7884 That wasn't the point lol, the point is that they play against the worst ever bayern team in a long while, dortmund too
@@P.K... must be very painful that england has more european trophies than the bundesliga.
@@jeffreyzepeda7884not worth arguing with prem fanboys. You could have non English team with a front three of the father, son, and the Holy Spirit, and your average prem fanboy would still say they’d struggle against burnley
@@ikhlashasib8256 dortmund - ucl finalist
Football has evolved. In all areas.
Strategy, Tactic, Speed, Heatlh, Mentality....
This Leverkusen would have destroyed many teams in the past.
Except Barca 2009 / 2014 and
Bayern 2013 / 2020
It would be a close call.