Well done! What strikes me is that Jane Austen doesn't spell these dynamics out for her reader. Instead, she allows her narrator and her characters to make observations that we take at face value, and yet, often do misinterpret or get wrong. I think Mary's comment about Wentworth finding Anne altered is a case in point. It devastates Anne, and yet Wentworth's comment could have been made out of compassion and concern for Anne. As Virginia Woolf astutely noted, "that of all the great writers, she [Austen] is the most difficult to catch in the act of greatness."
I think there's also a bit of trauma to add to Lady Russel, as part of why she wanted to break the engagement and why she tried to convince her of Mr Elliot's suit. She lost her best friend! Someone whom she was as close to as two women can platonically get. And there we have a young girl, whom is closest to that friend in looks and personality. I'm not surprised she latched on to Anne with the strangth she did, over her sisters even. I think Lady Russel was trying to get Anne to a similar position to what her mother had, and give her what she thought her mother deserved. A lord as a husband, the household her friend ruled over, maybe even encouraged things that she saw of her friend in Anne as far as personality and taste. To Anne, Lady Russel is her mom.To lady Russel, Annde could be twofold: her daughter and the living image of her lost friend. And part of her reasoning in hating Wentworth could also stand to be because he isn't a man her Elizabeth would have choosen for herself. Mr Elliot is though. After all, she married Sir Walter. Mr Elliot isn't that far off. I think Lady Russel loves Anne as her own person, but a part of her can't let go of her friend. Her loss could have been just as painful for Lady Russel as it was for the girls, albeit in a different sense.
As a motherless daughter myself, I had a visceral reaction to your analysis. You hit things right on the nail. I was in Elizabeth's shoes; at 17 I watched my mother slowly die and then took over the running of her household. Although I've read _Persuasion_ several times, the impact of Lady Elliot's death didn't hit me until you pointed it out. I'd recommend Hope Edelman's book to anyone who is or knows a motherless daughter.
@@noneofurbusiness5223 While Hope's book is excellent and it may offer some insight, there are others that you might find more useful. For example, Lady Colin Campbell wrote a book about her relationship with her narcissistic mother in Daughter of Narcissus that might be more helpful. Both of my my parents died before I turned 17- my father at 14 and my mother shortly before my 17th birthday- and I found the book The Loss that lasts Forever, very insightful. In addition, there is a channel on You Tube: HG Tudor that deals with Narcissism. There is some information on it that might help you.
I also lost my mom, when I was six. I’ve always felt a bit odd that Austen doesn’t delve more into the life shattering grief the three sisters must have felt. I still enjoy the book though. I also have never liked Lady Russel that much, and this video made me wonder if that’s because I always resented when people in my childhood tried to tell me I shouldn’t be so sad that I lost my mom because there were some adult women in my life who helped look out for me. I’m very grateful to them, but we never loved each other like a mother and daughter.
@@mkmason7727 Well, there are a lot of things Austen refers to but are side notes. By reading her novels, one doesn't understand the losses that UK suffered with all of the Napoleonic wars. This led to a man shortage and as a result many women would never find a partner. Capt. Wentworth made his rank and fortune by capturing French ships, and received his share from the government in confiscating the ships. By reading her novels, one gets the idea that all these military men have considerable down time and are enjoying life. Since most of the action occurs 15 years after Lady Elliott's death, from a 19th century perspective it would be considered indulgent or unseemly to still be suffering from the loss of a mother. Many readers of that era would have had personal knowledge of friends and family that would become destitute with the loss of a parent and have to rely on the charity of family. We see this with Sense and Sensibility, that the Dashwood sisters were lucky to have received charity, they had no real way to make an independent income. So, young women like Anne Elliott would have had no sympathy since she had a father and could live at his estate or whatever lodgings he had. In addition, she had received several marriage proposals ( Wentworth, Musgrove, Elliott).
The one thing that always bothered me about Emma was the attitude that "nothing bad but a dead mother" had ever happened to Emma. THAT IS SUCH A BIG SOMETHING!!!
First of all, Persuasion is my favorite Jane Austen novel. Of all the characters Anne resonates the most with me. I too am a motherless daughter, although I was already grown when my mother died, the need to attach myself to a mother figure was still there. I naturally gravitate to older ladies, such as, my aunts, ladies at church and even older female coworkers. However, my "Lady Russell" was actually my uncle. When I was a kid the sun pretty much rose and set with him. His persuasion kept me from joining the military, from dating certain guys (one in particular), and going after certain types of jobs. Like Anne, I finally matured enough to know that although he was always a good man, he wasn't always right. He even admitted it to me once and it blessed my soul to hear.
I feel Anne felt that way because of lack of love and value from her father and older sister. She devalued herself. Like how is she worthy of him. Love this book so much.Lady Russel may have been living her own life choices in Anne.
This checks out, and drives home the title 'Persuasion' even more. Of course, if Wentworth had been more like Fanny Price's father, Lady Russell would be the hero of the story.
Very true. As prejudiced in terms of class as Lady Russell was, her concerns about Wentworth were valid. There was no guarantee he'd survive the war, let alone become as successful as he did. His income wasn't stable (it's noted he spent things recklessly) and Anne wasn't going to be able to bring in sufficient money to live on comfortably. Fanny's mother is a very good example of what could have happened in a marriage made on love alone during that time period. Austen may have practiced what she preached in marrying for love, but she was pragmatic enough to realize that love without financial security was a guaranteed disaster to a marriage.
😂 Although, from what we read of Fanny's father, he doesn't seem like he had a good character anyways. I believe circumstances can change a person (make you grouchy bc worried for example) but Fanny's father seemed to be odd and unmannerly in the basics, so I wonder if he was lacking goodness in the beginning? Whereas Capt Wentworth couldn't have turned out to be the person he was if he didn't have a good character at his heart- even if he was a little rough on the exterior because of his pride. We're not told much about Fanny's mother and her father's relationship unless I missed something, but it seemed to me Fanny's mother was kind of headstrong and maybe went along with it to marry him as a defiant streak? But maybe people don't actuallt do that bc it's a little extreme. 😅 So, also wondering if it was more like a Lydia/Wickham thing, Wickham looked good on the outside and had good graces for parties but there wasn't much goodness in the core or everyday of his person.
This is a brilliant theory and I really think you nailed it! It makes perfect sense - the manipulation part especially! Never thought about the other two sisters and why they were as they were. Thanks for your insight. I really enjoyed this video!
I disagree slightly on Sir Walter's excessive spending being linked to Elizabeth's inexperience as mistress of the household. Elizabeth would not have known, or perhaps cared, how to rein in household expenses, but daughters have much less influence than wives over a man. Elizabeth also may have chafed under her mother's household restrictions and rejoiced at being able to update decorations, go to London, etc.
Your parents remember you as a baby. They figure you shouldn't be telling them what to do. It often doesn't matter to them that you might know more about certain things than they do by the time you reach age 40, let alone a 17 year old.
It’s pretty remarkable that Jane Austin was intuitive enough to understand the phycology of grief a hundred years before the concept of phycology. She must have had a lot of experience with death and grief (as you would assume people in her era had) or was truly a gifted writer to put herself in others shoes or both. She was amazing. It is why we still read her work and discuss her.
I love your character-revealing video, and it gave me a lot to think over. I personally think that the examination of Mary and Elisabeth`s characters was 1000% on point! Ann Elliott herself is so bright, that I never felt obliged to think about how their mother`s death affected two sisters, and how crucial that was in a process of becoming a mature woman. But in the case of Lady Russell, I kind of feel what she has told to Ann to persuade her. We all know how important social status was in the times of Jane Austen, and how neglecting Sir Walter`s behavior was towards the Musgrove family in particular. He never mentioned his grandchildren, not even once. Why? Because they are out of the noble circle. So marriage to Wentworth would have meant not only putting yourself into the hands of an uncertain future but losing your family forever. There was no chance to marry Wentworth and keep being a part of a noble society. So I`m sure of what lady Russell told Ann, "Do you really want your husband and your future children to be unwanted guests, despised and humiliated by your father because of their low origin? Does he deserve to be a forever-aspiring part of our companionship without any chance to be accepted? Do you want him to regret he married you one day? So you must do what is better for him. Give him a chance to meet someone equal, and be happy. Don`t be selfish"
A point about "noble" circle: as a baronet, Sir Walter had a title higher in rank than a knight, but neither rank has the status of a noble. To be noble in the English rankings, you must be at the lowest a baron. Next up viscount, earl, marquess, duke.
@@marysmith5003 While that is true, a baronet is still a hereditary title and one is at the top tier of the gentry class being a baronet. Also, from Lady Russell's position being the wife of a knight, she would have seen Sir Walter at a more elevated status than her. Also, if one looks at the marriages of the 19th century, many of the more distinguished families has some of the daughters marrying baronets. One of the challenges with having very large families was marrying off one's children to people of suitable rank. Jane Austen covers this fairly well in Pride and Prejudice. Darcy's mother is the daughter of an earl who married a wealthy man of the gentry class with no title and Lady Catherine married into the gentry class herself.
@@marysmith5003 Yes, we can see Sir Walter's groveling before Lady Dalyrimple, I know I spelled that wrong! I remember when I read one of JA letters about being somewhat impressed that a a Baronet lived by her family when they lived in Bath. Bath's most fashion forward time was in the 18th century, when it was the playgrounds of the aristocrats. By JA time, it was more of an upper Gentry and lower tiered nobility place.
We also have to hear the subtext of contempt underlying Austen's description of Sir Walter's pretensions. He is a baronet excessively vain about his minor title, a spendthrift who has reached the height of his ambition by being born a baronet. As it turns out, when Captain Frederick Wentworth returns, he is wealthy and has the new status of being a hero in the navy. Arguably he is on a level to ask for the hand of a baronet's daughter. Especially a foolish and pretentious one. Another point within the subtext if not explicit, is that Anne turned down Wentworth for his good rather than for her own pride. He might have had to struggle to support a wife and marrying might have hurt his efforts to rise in his profession. He would constantly worry about his wife while he was away and might not take the risks needed to advance in his career. Anne did not want to hold him back. Also, Lady Russell may have used Anne's concerns that she would be a drag on him to keep her from marrying him. Lady Russell may have argued it's for his good if you do not marry him. It was a delicate balance and one it would have been impossible to articulate to Wentworth. Anne regretted her decision within a year but it was too late.
I haven't read "Persuasion", but this analysis brought to my mind something from "Pride and Prejudice". Elizabeth knows she is not Darcy's social equal. She might not be willing to admit it to herself at first, but I think she knows it. In the standards of the day a person's social status meant everything. Later in the book Elizabeth mentions her father belittling her mother in front of his girls. Elizabeth, in a moment of self realization, comes to understand that there is an unhealed wound there. So when Elizabeth gets so angry the first time Darcy proposes to her, she might be expressing some of the rage she has at her father. He habitually belittles people, especially Elizabeth's mother.
“Persuasion” is my favorite Austen novel. Your theory certainly supports the behavior of the Elliott sisters. I still wonder why Austen didn’t reveal more of a back story for Elizabeth, the supposedly prettier older sister. I could be wrong but I don’t recall any mention In the book of her accepting or rejecting any suitors. It’s a bit unusual for Austen to leave this void since Elizabeth was the oldest.
In some ways, she is a tragic character. Something tells me she rejected a slew of guys in the bloom of her youth, and was growing increasingly antsy when they stopped coming when she approached thirty. I also think she never got over Mr. Elliot. I think he was the only man that she every truly wanted, and no other man could match him in appearance or in his appearance of manners.
She was also as obsessed with 'rank' as her father and Austen said she rejected many men in the past because she would not accept anyone lower than a Baron.
I also think you nailed your analysis of the Elliot family! Your theory about Anne Elliot's reason to break off her engagement makes perfect sense. I wonder if Austen modelled Persuasion after another family?! The characters are so realistic... It could be easily transformed into today's society, where vanity and status play an important role. Just instead of rank you have cars (e.g., Audi, Mercedes), suburb (posh), etc as status.
I love your analysis of Elizabeth and Mary. This reminds me a lot of your analysis of the Bennet sisters. Eldest children to tend to become more attached to their fathers as mothers turn their attention to younger children. It strikes me that, like Ann, Emma had a very capable sort of mother substitute, whereas her elder sister seems to have modeled herself on her father, like the other eldest children. I wonder if Jane Austin was just describing relations based on observation, or if she had ideas about causation. My memory of her letters suggest that she was less compassionate than you are.
I could be wrong here but from my rereading of Persuasion, I always get the impression that Mary wasn't the only Elliott daughter shipped off to school immediately after their mother's death. Anne was sent to school in Bath, where her closest friend was the girl who would become Mrs Smith. If that is so, when is there the opportunity to bond with Lady Russell?
Per the book, Anne was only in school for three years following her mother's death. The school was located in Bath and she didn't like it there, which is why she doesn't like Bath much as a grown woman. I'm assuming Anne and Lady Russell corresponded while Anne was in school, as well.
I always had the impression that Lady Russell was close to all the girls throughout their lives but just had a personal affinity for Anne that developed into more of a mothering relationship after Lady Elliot died.
Great analysis You've definitely fleshed out the the different developmental paths that the three sisters went through. They're so different from each other.
Omg I just discovered this channel, I'm only halfway into this video, and I'm already obsessed with how deep, smart, and validating we're going into these characters, the empathy is such a balm, thank you for sharing this, INSTA-subscribe.
You could also argue that Mary’s insistence that she’s much more sick than she actually is it’s probably because she watched her mother die and is afraid that her husband is going to ignore the warning signs of her dying as well
My own mother has lost her mother when she was 11. Consequently I been brought up by a mother who was a mixture of Elizabeth and Mary, which I only now see clearly. Unfortunately, my mother had no lLady Russell to bring her up - she was too proud to submit to anyone less intelligent than her. In my case, I turned up like an Anne who never found her voice, until very recently. I think your analysis is very good, and I would add something else: Anne grew up to be a people pleaser, because that was the only role left to her in the family dynamic. Lady Russell for all her involvement with Anne, was never a domestic in Sir Elliot household, because she was independent but very much aware of Sir Elliot disliking her - and three people of such pride (Elizabeth!) could never be together for long. So Anne grew very much alone in her family, and must have always tried to keep peace between her father and her eldest sister. But the fact Lady Russell was not there all the time was Anne's saving grace and allowed her to grow in juxtaposition to her father and eldest sister. We also know that Anne was at school for some time and had an older friend, who we know as Mrs Smith, when we meet her in Bath. In fact, we realise that Anne had two "mother figures", but Mrs Smith one was not rich, and what's more, she married early, for love, and unhappily. I think that must have been another consideration of Anne while breaking up with Wentworth- the real life example of Mrs Smith's ultimately unhappy love match. But interestingly, there is another twist in the novel which allowed Anne to grow up, and that's the fact that Mrs Clay took up Anne's position as (much more successful) people pleaser in Elliot's family, and it left her very much an outsider. In fact, Mrs Clay can be seen as another mother figure in Anne's upbringing - the "good enough" mother, who allows Anne to separate and individuate by literally pushing her out of the nest. However Anne resents it, it was the most kindly act by the Anne's mother figures. Lady Russell smothers her and wants to keep her for a substitute daughter forever. Mrs Smith wants Anne to be her key in regaining her late husband's property. Only Mrs Clay is truly disinterested in using Anne - but that is how the real mother - daughter relationship should be, especially when the daughter grows up. Your analysis of Anne is very good, and it made me realise that Jane Austen was great psychologist as well as great writer. Interestingly, the newest adaptation of Persuasion seems to be very similar to your analysis.
I love Persuasion and definitely want to reread it this summer! This is a very interesting insight into the characters and shows just how well Jane Austen knew people. Great video!
I read Persuasion for the first time last year and it's my second favorite Austen book after Pride & Prejudice. This was a really great analysis and it makes me want to re-read it!
It's absolutely worth a reread! I highly recommend the annotated version I linked in the description box - I got so much more out of the book because of all the notes/additional information.
I think this is a brilliant analysis and makes so many pieces of the novel fit together. This also humanizes Elizabeth and Mary for me and makes me so much more sad for them! I love the point you make about Anne's growth being her differentiation between herself and Lady Russell as a mother figure. It makes Anne even more of a heroine both because of how well she knows herself and how gracious she is to others in their own flaws/prejudices/traumas, etc. (even when the characters do not and maybe never will be able to reciprocate).
I really, really enjoyed this vlog. You made so many good points and now I love Persuasion more than ever. I think what you said about Mary is so true. I have good friends that lost their mother when a child. I could see there was parts of them that could not fully develop. Losing a parent…especially a Mother is a huge loss. And now by understanding Mary, I enjoy her. Thank you so much for your research!
Love this idea! Fits really well with what we know of Lady Russell! Have you seen Dr. Octavia Cox's close analysis of Lady Russell? It touches on a lot of similar points.
I think Anne also makes a decent point when she tells Wentworth that advice is judged good or bad depending on subsequent events. Lady Russell, seeing him as an overconfident young naval man, must also have seen him as a high mortality risk. Even if she thought well of his character and believed he would love Anne and support her to the best of his ability, the chances of his dying and leaving her an impoverished widow were too high. If the Asp had sunk (as Wentworth himself admitted could easily have happened) Lady Russell's prudence would have been vindicated.
Anne did have a dowry. Even if she didn't, Lady Russell would never turn her away. I think she wanted to keep Anne close to her. She didn't want her sailing with Wentworth.
I just want to point out that in Pride and Prejudice also has Catherine De Bourg’s daughter also named Anne…who also has an overbearing mother (family) who makes decisions for her….did Jane think if Anne’s as not speaking for themselves?
A corollary of what you are saying is that it is essential to grow apart (in a certain sense) from even a good parent, not just one who is mean or abusive.
I picked this book up to read before watching the movie, I haven’t even started it yet you have taken me on a ride not unlike the twists and turns of a thrilling Agatha Christie mystery. I was trying to get myself excited for this book, since classics are not my easiest reads, and now I just want more of these videos on all the books!! What an amazingly done video!!
Such a great video! I loved the attention you paid the other sisters, and I think you're so right in the way their mother's death affected them all differently because of their place in the family and their ages. And I never thought about the way Lady Russell convinced her, but it sounds so right to me. Especially at the age that Anne was, it makes sense to follow those advice especially if you think that person might be better off with those choices too. You're making me want to reread Persuasion now!
Anne turned down Wentworth because she was sheltered and she was young at 19 and she trusted Lady Russell since she was her mother figure. I also agree with you about Mary and why I thought that Mary hates her children. Mary is craving that mother figure whereas Anne had Lady Russell after the mother died.
I actually think Lady Russell was right! Anne is only 19! Anne was incredibly sheltered and lonely. Her family wasn't supportive AT ALL. She just as easily could have been another impoverished Fanny Price or a young widow and then what would have happened to her? I wish she had insisted on a long engagement instead of a refusal but it was absolutely the rational call.
This is such an insightful analysis, thank you. Some thoughts. Lady Elliot and Sir Walter were not in harmony when Lady Elliot died, she had restrained his spending and no longer admired him as much as he would wish. He does not really seem to miss her. We are told Anne most resembles her mother in person and personality, Sir Walter does not admire her either. Poor Mary is the one who has lost the most with her mother’s death and while both she and Anne were sent away to school in Bath, Anne returned home much sooner, being four years older. Anne is most like Lady Russell’s dear friend so is the dearest. Had Anne maintained the engagement in 1806, she would have been left on shore for long periods of time while Wentworth was at sea without any positive support. Jane Austen gives Fanny Harville and James Benwick a similar situation, waiting years for fortune and promotion, but with family approval and support but Fanny dies anyway, the years of waiting would not have helped her health. Anne was in a no win situation in 1806 and she was 19 and inexperienced. One other aspect that separates Anne from Elizabeth and Mary in her interior life, she reads widely, plays music regularly and reflects continually. This is something she inherited from her mother, while the other two, like their father, have far fewer inner resources.
Excellent video! Here you talked about so many things about Anne that most people choose to ignore, maybe because they prefer more forcefull characters like Elizabeth Bennett. But I love Anne's quiet and more sweet personality. But I believe Anne was being true when she told Frederick that breaking up the first engagement was the best. The thing is that HE would neve be content in providing her with less than with she was raised, and not a bit less than what he thought she deserved. He wouldn't stop till getting rich. And nobody digs a long engagement, as mrs Mugrove said.
This is really interesting. Mary has always annoyed me, but your take on her really made me think. In fact, I had to pause the video and really consider your argument. (And it made me feel really sad for her.) Again, great analysis!
This was a wonderful video and some top-shelf literary discussion, just as I’ve come to expect from you! I really love the theory too, and it made me want to read Persuasion.
I've always thought that was the argument Lady Russell used on Anne, but your insight into the loss of their mother affecting the three girls was really interesting and insightful. I so can't wait to read the book again and see them in this new light
I think your explanation makes a ton of sense, and on top of that the other reason that Lady Russell could have given to convince Anne that breaking off the engagement is for Wentworth's good, could be that the couple would be absolutely miserable in a union that is so completely disparaged by her father. After all, anything pertaining to Wentworth's career advancement can be overcome with time and patience, but Sir Walter's attitude is immutable, which means that Anne may think he is better off being "set free" to pursue someone else whose family might be more accepting and welcoming of him, therefore introducing a permanent breach.
But, Wentworth was so angry and hurt, it never occurred to him (until late in the book) that had he returned in 2-3 years to Anne with money and career advancement, she would’ve accepted.
I absolutely love these character analyses that you do! The one you did on Fanny Price is one of my favorite videos on Mansfield Park ever, and to see you give some proper love to my favorite Austen is fantastic. You delivered your theories very well and I've got to say that I agree with your points. I definitely need to reread Persuasion. Its been way too long. Also, just wanted to ask if you happened to have seen either or both Persuasion adaptations and if so which one do you prefer? :)
Love the analysis and I totally agree w/your reasoning for Anne's and Lady Russel's behaviour. Austen requires this type of in-depth, educated analysis and guessing, of putting the pieces of the puzzle together. I especially loved your opening comment, every time you read a Jane Austen book, you say to your self (initially), well there isn't much to this one....on the contrary, there is sooo much in all her novels.
Such an insightful analysis! Some thoughts: Mary feels abandonment and Anne seems to think that she should try to compensate for Mary's lack of a surrogate mother as Lady Russell had played for her. She cannot play the role of surrogate mother and knows it and seems to treat Mary as broken: she never reprimands Mary. However, Anne constantly tends to her as an invalid. Sir Walter does one small thing that should make us feel better of him, on page 1 of the novel. Where his beloved Baronetage simply notes the year that Lady Elliot dies, he added the exact date. He demonstrates that he knows the value of his wife, a woman he never seems to mourn. This was a decisive day in the life of their family and he knows it. And the actual day isn't important, because Austen doesn't reveal it, but we are made to feel that this event was of the greatest importance to him. Is it possible that the very young women whom he courts unsuccessfully turn him down because they are not only pretty but also highly intelligent? Had Sir Walter in fact been trying pathetically to recreate his first marriage (for his own benefit, not his daughters, as these are apparently young women; Lady Russell, Austen underscores, the obvious choice, is never bothered)? We have no indication of such small wisdom but it is notable that he chose to court women who would turn him down, as Lady Elizabeth Elliot should have.
I read that passage as Anne self soothing her guilt and regret for turning down Wentworth. That’s why she didn’t explain how it was good for Wentworth. There really wasn’t a reason. Austen even writes it as if Anne consciously knows she’s making excuses. It’s just an excuse after the fact.
I always say you shouldn't read Persuasion until you're at least 30. What makes it so fantastic is how everyone does what they think is best at the time, given the information that's available. At a younger age, I would have disliked Lady Russell. But as I got older, I saw she was 90% right. I don't feel Anne skewed the story to Wentworth. What Anne realizes is that she was in fact too young to marry Wentworth at 19, but that they should have kept in touch. As a female of the gentry, Anne wasn't in a position to earn her own income. If she was to leave her baronet father's house for a man of lesser status, he would need to be worth the social adjustment. Lady Russell was pragmatic--her theme song is definitely What's Love Got To Do With It. She knew that no matter how much you might be in love, a precarious social and financial position would rob Anne of her happiness. There was no welfare, no community college or supplemental income to be earned. People wanna be in love until their stomach rumbles. So in the end, Wentworth was EVENTUALLY the right man for Anne. I love how Austen showed that both Anne and Wentworth had some growing up to do. Wentworth needed to be able to provide for Anne, but he also needed to learn impulse control and to appreciate that still waters run deep. Anne needed to learn to think for herself and not be a martyr. I also love that Lady Russell may have had her heart in the right place, but she too needed to learn to see a diamond in the rough. The story is such a great lesson in balance, as mentioned in the video. If you meet a great person, you both might need some time to ripen on the vine. Also, social status is no substitute for character. Sacrificing character for status is just as foolish as marrying without any money.
I want to ditto everything you said. I think both Anne and Wentworth needed time to mature. If they had decided "let's wait a few years", instead of the "marriage now or never" stance they both seemed to have at the time, they would have spared themselves a lot of heartache. It was a case of right people, wrong timing.
This is brilliant and provides some really amazing insights into this story. Thank you for pulling out all of these underlying implications and reasoning behind all of the characters' behavior!
A wonderful take on Persuasion, well done! Aren't those annotated Jane Austen books (David M. Shapard) so worth the cost?! Also, I totally agree with your analysis. Thank you!
Interesting! :) I did so dislike Mary's self absorbness in the book, but your analysis makes me feel more compassionate towards her to explain maybe why she's like that. I agree that Anne could have seen Lady Russell as a mother figure who she didn't want to disappoint and believed she had her best at heart. I also think Anne maybe had low self-esteem or confidence in her own ideas because of her father and Elizabeth's disregard and meaness, so she leaned on someone's else ideas because she didn't think hers were valid. When I finished the book, I honestedly didn't like Lady Russell because I saw it as everything Anne had to go through because of her misguided intereference for class sake. But I can see now how Lady Russell was in a weird controlling way looking out for Anne and trying to protect her from what she saw as a life of scarcity. But my goodness, bad means to go about it! Maybe that's why the Bible says to Fear not because maybe it was fear about Anne that in a sense caused her controlling behavior? Yay though how things did end up better than Lady Russell believed and Anne's life turned out better than she expected with love and well provided for. :)
Mary was my favourite character honestly, not only was she incredibly humorous I can like understand where she's coming from/sympathize Like she's just such a fun character.
A bit off today's topic but I wanted to let you know that among many other things I have discovered on your channel I will forever be grateful to you for introducing me to Amor Towles and MOST especially Rules of Civility.
This was such a great and in-depth analysis. I'm sure a casual reader would simply dismiss the Elliots and Lady Russell as awful people who held Anne back but you bring up good points on how they actually helped Anne develop into someone stronger and less "persuaded". It's interesting how Anne is younger than Elizabeth but it's she who is put down as the old maid and having lost her bloom rather than her older sister. Elizabeth as her father's favorite and the one most like him is protected from such scrutiny. It's also easy to dismiss Mary as whiny and needy but you've laid out exactly why she ended up the way she has. I feel bad for her, Charles, and their children because it's likely that they will never be a close family due to the lingering trauma.
Apart from Lady Russel Anne's father only knows that sailors are awfully knocked about, has a down on the sailing profession? I can read some resentment in Anne towards Lady R. The keeping of the letters signifies attachment and to have been denied that through being dutiful, awful. Persuasion is the best, most mature of Jane's writing and pictures a woman resigned, removed from the bliss she can all too readily conjure. Contrary to the findings here, mother does not know best. Anne, busy and intellectual shuns that convention the mother figure is attached to. Is Jane, increasingly poorly, endlessly reflective, crushed by her imagining of what could have been, for herself?
I don't think we can equate Jane Austen to Anne, other than Jane being more mature by the time she wrote Persuasion and having seen more of life. In Jane's love life (that we know of) she had a love who was persuaded away from her by his family who thought he could do better, and later in life she accepted the proposal of a man she did not love and then made the decision herself to break it off (surely against the advice of most of those around her). No, Jane does not seem to be the kind of person who let others persuade her, but always seemed to know exactly who she was and what she wanted. I don't think she would have pursued her writing, at a time it was a bit scandalous for a woman, from the time she was a girl until the day she died, otherwise.
Oh, wow, I'm so glad I've found your channel! I was browsing some Persuasion videos to soothe myself after being disappointed with the new movie, and thankfully this showed up! You posses such good rhetoric and I hope to watch more from you soon. You also have such value to transmit with your content, and I deeply appreciate it. Besides, it is quite difficult to find analysis on this book, at least on CZcams, and I'm so glad to see it covered by someone who clearly loves the novel! Much love to you 💝 I hope to see your channel grow even more, because you certainly deserve it.
Oh my stars. My sisters and I are going to watch it Friday night (one of them was away on a business trip, and that's why I haven't watched it yet. Just when all the video essays started cropping up.) I just have a feeling it's gonna be trash, but hopefully fun trash. Can we please get another great adaptation of Persuasion one day? (I'm fond of the 1971 and 1995 versions.)
I had a weird rethink of Ann and Wentworth reuniting.....he is so very, very cold to her when he re-enters her life, sharp, almost nasty. So eventually Ann thinks, " If you can still be holding so much anger and resentment toward me after 9 years, how would you treat me if I made you angry during our marriage?"....lots of shuddering on Ann's part followed by relief and her accepting Charles musgrove who would now have a happy marriage.....it ruins a good book but makes happy people 😊
The title of the vlog caught my eye, "psychology", because I've had watch or read points of view from authors, editors, literary or English teachers and even fans of Jane Austen's books. I dont know if you're a psicologist or not, but it doesn't matter because you base your opinion from a book that you cited (Motherless daughter), and second because your given an opinion on fictional character. I wish you could contact the author and talk about Persuasion because now the book picked my curiosity and want to buy it but I have no feeling for the author. Nevertheless watching your video made me stop cleaning 🙄 😅 because I want to listen at your narration. It was fun and captivating. The video is a year old and I just got recommend your video by CZcams's algorithm. I subscribe for the book insight but I glanced and your videos seem insightful. I'm looking forward to watching your videos.
The psychological impact is lady Elliot's death on the maturity of her daughters is something I hadn't fully parsed out yet. The rest is pretty well covered in the text.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. Very enjoyable to listen to all your insights. You especially changed my view of Mary. I will check out Hope Edelman's book at some point for sure. Interesting stuff!
She said she made the right choice in honoring Lady Russel's thoughts on ending the engadgment ; at that time as a dutiful daughter .Showing disrespect to her loved one (almost a gaurdian ) would have sulled he self standing and his. To her it would be dishonerable..It would have made the relationship (marriage )start on a less strong foundation ..Anne as Jane made her is not one who would fib to anyone most importantly Not to Wentworth... Great points though on the three motherless daughters.
I think Anne was not ready to get married she had just lost her mother and was not ready to let go of the house she had so many memories with her mom she was scared to let them go so when she was told this was not a good match it just conformed her anxiety so that’s why I believe she turned him down. I also believe that she needed this time to realize that holding onto the past was holding her back in life and her mother would not want that so in the end Anne was able to make her own decision and be Happy.
I feel as though Anne might have been more prideful than you make her out be as well. This may have influenced her decision with the first rebuttal of the mairage w Wentworth due to his lack of status and money. A part that shows this vanity and prideful nature of Anne is when she is visiting her father and Elizabeth in Camden Place for the first time. She is disheartened that they do not share the same sadness and uneasiness in being reduced to this smaller and less status inclined home. What do you think?
Erudite analysis. I think how the navy promoted men on merit rather than heritage was a new concept in Regency England, the difference between Wentworth's position when Anne rejected him and his position 8 years later were very different, such a rise was very rapid in such a class obsessed society. Captain Wentworth is unlike the other Austen heroes who are either part of the gentry, the aristocracy or the Church of England and whose rank in society is more understandable to the likes of Lady Russell and Sir Walter Elliot.
My theory on Anne turning Wentworth down it’s because Anne was probably ADHD and she was a people pleaser who put everyone else’s happiness first versus thinking of herself. Again book Anne and film Anne are very relatable to myself.
Well done! What strikes me is that Jane Austen doesn't spell these dynamics out for her reader. Instead, she allows her narrator and her characters to make observations that we take at face value, and yet, often do misinterpret or get wrong. I think Mary's comment about Wentworth finding Anne altered is a case in point. It devastates Anne, and yet Wentworth's comment could have been made out of compassion and concern for Anne. As Virginia Woolf astutely noted, "that of all the great writers, she [Austen] is the most difficult to catch in the act of greatness."
I think there's also a bit of trauma to add to Lady Russel, as part of why she wanted to break the engagement and why she tried to convince her of Mr Elliot's suit. She lost her best friend! Someone whom she was as close to as two women can platonically get. And there we have a young girl, whom is closest to that friend in looks and personality. I'm not surprised she latched on to Anne with the strangth she did, over her sisters even. I think Lady Russel was trying to get Anne to a similar position to what her mother had, and give her what she thought her mother deserved. A lord as a husband, the household her friend ruled over, maybe even encouraged things that she saw of her friend in Anne as far as personality and taste.
To Anne, Lady Russel is her mom.To lady Russel, Annde could be twofold: her daughter and the living image of her lost friend. And part of her reasoning in hating Wentworth could also stand to be because he isn't a man her Elizabeth would have choosen for herself. Mr Elliot is though. After all, she married Sir Walter. Mr Elliot isn't that far off.
I think Lady Russel loves Anne as her own person, but a part of her can't let go of her friend. Her loss could have been just as painful for Lady Russel as it was for the girls, albeit in a different sense.
An excellent point! I hadn't thought of it, but it makes perfect sense. Well done!
As a motherless daughter myself, I had a visceral reaction to your analysis. You hit things right on the nail. I was in Elizabeth's shoes; at 17 I watched my mother slowly die and then took over the running of her household. Although I've read _Persuasion_ several times, the impact of Lady Elliot's death didn't hit me until you pointed it out.
I'd recommend Hope Edelman's book to anyone who is or knows a motherless daughter.
@@noneofurbusiness5223 While Hope's book is excellent and it may offer some insight, there are others that you might find more useful. For example, Lady Colin Campbell wrote a book about her relationship with her narcissistic mother in Daughter of Narcissus that might be more helpful.
Both of my my parents died before I turned 17- my father at 14 and my mother shortly before my 17th birthday- and I found the book The Loss that lasts Forever, very insightful.
In addition, there is a channel on You Tube: HG Tudor that deals with Narcissism. There is some information on it that might help you.
I also lost my mom, when I was six. I’ve always felt a bit odd that Austen doesn’t delve more into the life shattering grief the three sisters must have felt. I still enjoy the book though. I also have never liked Lady Russel that much, and this video made me wonder if that’s because I always resented when people in my childhood tried to tell me I shouldn’t be so sad that I lost my mom because there were some adult women in my life who helped look out for me. I’m very grateful to them, but we never loved each other like a mother and daughter.
@@mkmason7727 Well, there are a lot of things Austen refers to but are side notes. By reading her novels, one doesn't understand the losses that UK suffered with all of the Napoleonic wars. This led to a man shortage and as a result many women would never find a partner. Capt. Wentworth made his rank and fortune by capturing French ships, and received his share from the government in confiscating the ships. By reading her novels, one gets the idea that all these military men have considerable down time and are enjoying life.
Since most of the action occurs 15 years after Lady Elliott's death, from a 19th century perspective it would be considered indulgent or unseemly to still be suffering from the loss of a mother. Many readers of that era would have had personal knowledge of friends and family that would become destitute with the loss of a parent and have to rely on the charity of family. We see this with Sense and Sensibility, that the Dashwood sisters were lucky to have received charity, they had no real way to make an independent income. So, young women like Anne Elliott would have had no sympathy since she had a father and could live at his estate or whatever lodgings he had. In addition, she had received several marriage proposals ( Wentworth, Musgrove, Elliott).
The one thing that always bothered me about Emma was the attitude that "nothing bad but a dead mother" had ever happened to Emma. THAT IS SUCH A BIG SOMETHING!!!
First of all, Persuasion is my favorite Jane Austen novel. Of all the characters Anne resonates the most with me. I too am a motherless daughter, although I was already grown when my mother died, the need to attach myself to a mother figure was still there. I naturally gravitate to older ladies, such as, my aunts, ladies at church and even older female coworkers. However, my "Lady Russell" was actually my uncle. When I was a kid the sun pretty much rose and set with him. His persuasion kept me from joining the military, from dating certain guys (one in particular), and going after certain types of jobs. Like Anne, I finally matured enough to know that although he was always a good man, he wasn't always right. He even admitted it to me once and it blessed my soul to hear.
I feel Anne felt that way because of lack of love and value from her father and older sister. She devalued herself. Like how is she worthy of him. Love this book so much.Lady Russel may have been living her own life choices in Anne.
This checks out, and drives home the title 'Persuasion' even more. Of course, if Wentworth had been more like Fanny Price's father, Lady Russell would be the hero of the story.
True, true. Although I do trust Anne to make better choices than that, even if she was young at the time of the first proposal!
Very true. As prejudiced in terms of class as Lady Russell was, her concerns about Wentworth were valid. There was no guarantee he'd survive the war, let alone become as successful as he did. His income wasn't stable (it's noted he spent things recklessly) and Anne wasn't going to be able to bring in sufficient money to live on comfortably.
Fanny's mother is a very good example of what could have happened in a marriage made on love alone during that time period. Austen may have practiced what she preached in marrying for love, but she was pragmatic enough to realize that love without financial security was a guaranteed disaster to a marriage.
😂 Although, from what we read of Fanny's father, he doesn't seem like he had a good character anyways. I believe circumstances can change a person (make you grouchy bc worried for example) but Fanny's father seemed to be odd and unmannerly in the basics, so I wonder if he was lacking goodness in the beginning? Whereas Capt Wentworth couldn't have turned out to be the person he was if he didn't have a good character at his heart- even if he was a little rough on the exterior because of his pride. We're not told much about Fanny's mother and her father's relationship unless I missed something, but it seemed to me Fanny's mother was kind of headstrong and maybe went along with it to marry him as a defiant streak? But maybe people don't actuallt do that bc it's a little extreme. 😅 So, also wondering if it was more like a Lydia/Wickham thing, Wickham looked good on the outside and had good graces for parties but there wasn't much goodness in the core or everyday of his person.
This is a brilliant theory and I really think you nailed it! It makes perfect sense - the manipulation part especially! Never thought about the other two sisters and why they were as they were. Thanks for your insight. I really enjoyed this video!
I disagree slightly on Sir Walter's excessive spending being linked to Elizabeth's inexperience as mistress of the household. Elizabeth would not have known, or perhaps cared, how to rein in household expenses, but daughters have much less influence than wives over a man. Elizabeth also may have chafed under her mother's household restrictions and rejoiced at being able to update decorations, go to London, etc.
Your parents remember you as a baby. They figure you shouldn't be telling them what to do. It often doesn't matter to them that you might know more about certain things than they do by the time you reach age 40, let alone a 17 year old.
It’s pretty remarkable that Jane Austin was intuitive enough to understand the phycology of grief a hundred years before the concept of phycology. She must have had a lot of experience with death and grief (as you would assume people in her era had) or was truly a gifted writer to put herself in others shoes or both. She was amazing. It is why we still read her work and discuss her.
What's phycology? Or you mean to say psychology? 😅
_Persuasion_ is my favorite Austen and I thoroughly enjoyed your analysis. The next time I read it I will pay much more attention to Lady Russell.
I love your character-revealing video, and it gave me a lot to think over. I personally think that the examination of Mary and Elisabeth`s characters was 1000% on point! Ann Elliott herself is so bright, that I never felt obliged to think about how their mother`s death affected two sisters, and how crucial that was in a process of becoming a mature woman. But in the case of Lady Russell, I kind of feel what she has told to Ann to persuade her. We all know how important social status was in the times of Jane Austen, and how neglecting Sir Walter`s behavior was towards the Musgrove family in particular. He never mentioned his grandchildren, not even once. Why? Because they are out of the noble circle. So marriage to Wentworth would have meant not only putting yourself into the hands of an uncertain future but losing your family forever. There was no chance to marry Wentworth and keep being a part of a noble society. So I`m sure of what lady Russell told Ann, "Do you really want your husband and your future children to be unwanted guests, despised and humiliated by your father because of their low origin? Does he deserve to be a forever-aspiring part of our companionship without any chance to be accepted? Do you want him to regret he married you one day? So you must do what is better for him. Give him a chance to meet someone equal, and be happy. Don`t be selfish"
A point about "noble" circle: as a baronet, Sir Walter had a title higher in rank than a knight, but neither rank has the status of a noble. To be noble in the English rankings, you must be at the lowest a baron. Next up viscount, earl, marquess, duke.
@@marysmith5003 While that is true, a baronet is still a hereditary title and one is at the top tier of the gentry class being a baronet. Also, from Lady Russell's position being the wife of a knight, she would have seen Sir Walter at a more elevated status than her. Also, if one looks at the marriages of the 19th century, many of the more distinguished families has some of the daughters marrying baronets. One of the challenges with having very large families was marrying off one's children to people of suitable rank. Jane Austen covers this fairly well in Pride and Prejudice. Darcy's mother is the daughter of an earl who married a wealthy man of the gentry class with no title and Lady Catherine married into the gentry class herself.
@@mtngrl5859 True, baronet is a hereditary title, and while not a noble title, it does take precedence over knights and untitled gentry.
@@marysmith5003 Yes, we can see Sir Walter's groveling before Lady Dalyrimple, I know I spelled that wrong! I remember when I read one of JA
letters about being somewhat impressed that a a Baronet lived by her family when they lived in Bath. Bath's most fashion forward time was in the 18th century, when it was the playgrounds of the aristocrats. By JA time, it was more of an upper Gentry and lower tiered nobility place.
We also have to hear the subtext of contempt underlying Austen's description of Sir Walter's pretensions. He is a baronet excessively vain about his minor title, a spendthrift who has reached the height of his ambition by being born a baronet. As it turns out, when Captain Frederick Wentworth returns, he is wealthy and has the new status of being a hero in the navy. Arguably he is on a level to ask for the hand of a baronet's daughter. Especially a foolish and pretentious one.
Another point within the subtext if not explicit, is that Anne turned down Wentworth for his good rather than for her own pride. He might have had to struggle to support a wife and marrying might have hurt his efforts to rise in his profession. He would constantly worry about his wife while he was away and might not take the risks needed to advance in his career. Anne did not want to hold him back. Also, Lady Russell may have used Anne's concerns that she would be a drag on him to keep her from marrying him. Lady Russell may have argued it's for his good if you do not marry him. It was a delicate balance and one it would have been impossible to articulate to Wentworth. Anne regretted her decision within a year but it was too late.
I haven't read "Persuasion", but this analysis brought to my mind something from "Pride and Prejudice". Elizabeth knows she is not Darcy's social equal. She might not be willing to admit it to herself at first, but I think she knows it. In the standards of the day a person's social status meant everything. Later in the book Elizabeth mentions her father belittling her mother in front of his girls. Elizabeth, in a moment of self realization, comes to understand that there is an unhealed wound there. So when Elizabeth gets so angry the first time Darcy proposes to her, she might be expressing some of the rage she has at her father. He habitually belittles people, especially Elizabeth's mother.
“Persuasion” is my favorite Austen novel. Your theory certainly supports the behavior of the Elliott sisters.
I still wonder why Austen didn’t reveal more of a back story for Elizabeth, the supposedly prettier older sister. I could be wrong but I don’t recall any mention In the book of her accepting or rejecting any suitors. It’s a bit unusual for Austen to leave this void since Elizabeth was the oldest.
In some ways, she is a tragic character. Something tells me she rejected a slew of guys in the bloom of her youth, and was growing increasingly antsy when they stopped coming when she approached thirty.
I also think she never got over Mr. Elliot. I think he was the only man that she every truly wanted, and no other man could match him in appearance or in his appearance of manners.
She was also as obsessed with 'rank' as her father and Austen said she rejected many men in the past because she would not accept anyone lower than a Baron.
I also think you nailed your analysis of the Elliot family! Your theory about Anne Elliot's reason to break off her engagement makes perfect sense. I wonder if Austen modelled Persuasion after another family?! The characters are so realistic... It could be easily transformed into today's society, where vanity and status play an important role. Just instead of rank you have cars (e.g., Audi, Mercedes), suburb (posh), etc as status.
I love your analysis of Elizabeth and Mary. This reminds me a lot of your analysis of the Bennet sisters. Eldest children to tend to
become more attached to their fathers as mothers turn their attention to younger children. It strikes me that, like Ann, Emma had a very capable sort of mother substitute, whereas her elder sister seems to have modeled herself on her father, like the other eldest children.
I wonder if Jane Austin was just describing relations based on observation, or if she had ideas about causation. My memory of her letters suggest that she was less compassionate than you are.
I could be wrong here but from my rereading of Persuasion, I always get the impression that Mary wasn't the only Elliott daughter shipped off to school immediately after their mother's death. Anne was sent to school in Bath, where her closest friend was the girl who would become Mrs Smith.
If that is so, when is there the opportunity to bond with Lady Russell?
Per the book, Anne was only in school for three years following her mother's death. The school was located in Bath and she didn't like it there, which is why she doesn't like Bath much as a grown woman. I'm assuming Anne and Lady Russell corresponded while Anne was in school, as well.
I always had the impression that Lady Russell was close to all the girls throughout their lives but just had a personal affinity for Anne that developed into more of a mothering relationship after Lady Elliot died.
Great analysis
You've definitely fleshed out the the different developmental paths that the three sisters went through. They're so different from each other.
Omg I just discovered this channel, I'm only halfway into this video, and I'm already obsessed with how deep, smart, and validating we're going into these characters, the empathy is such a balm, thank you for sharing this, INSTA-subscribe.
This was so well done. I appreciate the book a lot more now.
Thank you!
You could also argue that Mary’s insistence that she’s much more sick than she actually is it’s probably because she watched her mother die and is afraid that her husband is going to ignore the warning signs of her dying as well
My own mother has lost her mother when she was 11. Consequently I been brought up by a mother who was a mixture of Elizabeth and Mary, which I only now see clearly. Unfortunately, my mother had no lLady Russell to bring her up - she was too proud to submit to anyone less intelligent than her.
In my case, I turned up like an Anne who never found her voice, until very recently.
I think your analysis is very good, and I would add something else: Anne grew up to be a people pleaser, because that was the only role left to her in the family dynamic. Lady Russell for all her involvement with Anne, was never a domestic in Sir Elliot household, because she was independent but very much aware of Sir Elliot disliking her - and three people of such pride (Elizabeth!) could never be together for long. So Anne grew very much alone in her family, and must have always tried to keep peace between her father and her eldest sister.
But the fact Lady Russell was not there all the time was Anne's saving grace and allowed her to grow in juxtaposition to her father and eldest sister. We also know that Anne was at school for some time and had an older friend, who we know as Mrs Smith, when we meet her in Bath. In fact, we realise that Anne had two "mother figures", but Mrs Smith one was not rich, and what's more, she married early, for love, and unhappily. I think that must have been another consideration of Anne while breaking up with Wentworth- the real life example of Mrs Smith's ultimately unhappy love match.
But interestingly, there is another twist in the novel which allowed Anne to grow up, and that's the fact that Mrs Clay took up Anne's position as (much more successful) people pleaser in Elliot's family, and it left her very much an outsider. In fact, Mrs Clay can be seen as another mother figure in Anne's upbringing - the "good enough" mother, who allows Anne to separate and individuate by literally pushing her out of the nest. However Anne resents it, it was the most kindly act by the Anne's mother figures. Lady Russell smothers her and wants to keep her for a substitute daughter forever. Mrs Smith wants Anne to be her key in regaining her late husband's property. Only Mrs Clay is truly disinterested in using Anne - but that is how the real mother - daughter relationship should be, especially when the daughter grows up.
Your analysis of Anne is very good, and it made me realise that Jane Austen was great psychologist as well as great writer.
Interestingly, the newest adaptation of Persuasion seems to be very similar to your analysis.
I love Persuasion and definitely want to reread it this summer! This is a very interesting insight into the characters and shows just how well Jane Austen knew people. Great video!
Persuasion is my favourite Austen and this theory is so interesting and well thought out!
Thanks!
I read Persuasion for the first time last year and it's my second favorite Austen book after Pride & Prejudice. This was a really great analysis and it makes me want to re-read it!
It's absolutely worth a reread! I highly recommend the annotated version I linked in the description box - I got so much more out of the book because of all the notes/additional information.
You just convinced me to read Persuasion again. Wonderful analysis.
This came at a great time! I recently read Persuasion and loved it :)
Persuasion is my equal favourite with P&P
I think this is a brilliant analysis and makes so many pieces of the novel fit together. This also humanizes Elizabeth and Mary for me and makes me so much more sad for them! I love the point you make about Anne's growth being her differentiation between herself and Lady Russell as a mother figure. It makes Anne even more of a heroine both because of how well she knows herself and how gracious she is to others in their own flaws/prejudices/traumas, etc. (even when the characters do not and maybe never will be able to reciprocate).
I think the beauty of Lady Russell was that she admitted that she was wrong, and is willing to keep an open mind now that Anne is happy.
I really, really enjoyed this vlog. You made so many good points and now I love Persuasion more than ever. I think what you said about Mary is so true. I have good friends that lost their mother when a child. I could see there was parts of them that could not fully develop. Losing a parent…especially a Mother is a huge loss. And now by understanding Mary, I enjoy her. Thank you so much for your research!
Love this idea! Fits really well with what we know of Lady Russell! Have you seen Dr. Octavia Cox's close analysis of Lady Russell? It touches on a lot of similar points.
Persuasion is my favorite Jane Austen book and so I enjoyed your insight.
Wow, this is waaaay better than Netflix's version!!!!!
I am always blown away by your analysis
You're kind, thank you 😊
I think Anne also makes a decent point when she tells Wentworth that advice is judged good or bad depending on subsequent events. Lady Russell, seeing him as an overconfident young naval man, must also have seen him as a high mortality risk. Even if she thought well of his character and believed he would love Anne and support her to the best of his ability, the chances of his dying and leaving her an impoverished widow were too high. If the Asp had sunk (as Wentworth himself admitted could easily have happened) Lady Russell's prudence would have been vindicated.
Anne did have a dowry. Even if she didn't, Lady Russell would never turn her away.
I think she wanted to keep Anne close to her. She didn't want her sailing with Wentworth.
Wow ..your analysis is good ..I have never think like this..the absence of mother could have shaped such characterisation is just amazing
I just want to point out that in Pride and Prejudice also has Catherine De Bourg’s daughter also named Anne…who also has an overbearing mother (family) who makes decisions for her….did Jane think if Anne’s as not speaking for themselves?
A corollary of what you are saying is that it is essential to grow apart (in a certain sense) from even a good parent, not just one who is mean or abusive.
I just read this for the first time oddly and admit that I was incredibly shocked at how Lady Russell invoked Anne's deceased mother.
I picked this book up to read before watching the movie, I haven’t even started it yet you have taken me on a ride not unlike the twists and turns of a thrilling Agatha Christie mystery. I was trying to get myself excited for this book, since classics are not my easiest reads, and now I just want more of these videos on all the books!! What an amazingly done video!!
Such a great video! I loved the attention you paid the other sisters, and I think you're so right in the way their mother's death affected them all differently because of their place in the family and their ages. And I never thought about the way Lady Russell convinced her, but it sounds so right to me. Especially at the age that Anne was, it makes sense to follow those advice especially if you think that person might be better off with those choices too. You're making me want to reread Persuasion now!
Love these deep dive analyses! I so appreciate the time and effort it takes thank you!
Glad you like them! It's lovely to hear that because they do indeed require a lot of work 😊
Anne turned down Wentworth because she was sheltered and she was young at 19 and she trusted Lady Russell since she was her mother figure. I also agree with you about Mary and why I thought that Mary hates her children. Mary is craving that mother figure whereas Anne had Lady Russell after the mother died.
I actually think Lady Russell was right! Anne is only 19! Anne was incredibly sheltered and lonely. Her family wasn't supportive AT ALL. She just as easily could have been another impoverished Fanny Price or a young widow and then what would have happened to her? I wish she had insisted on a long engagement instead of a refusal but it was absolutely the rational call.
I thoroughly enjoyed this. I have now watched two great Persuasion critiques in a row.
This is such an insightful analysis, thank you. Some thoughts. Lady Elliot and Sir Walter were not in harmony when Lady Elliot died, she had restrained his spending and no longer admired him as much as he would wish. He does not really seem to miss her. We are told Anne most resembles her mother in person and personality, Sir Walter does not admire her either. Poor Mary is the one who has lost the most with her mother’s death and while both she and Anne were sent away to school in Bath, Anne returned home much sooner, being four years older. Anne is most like Lady Russell’s dear friend so is the dearest.
Had Anne maintained the engagement in 1806, she would have been left on shore for long periods of time while Wentworth was at sea without any positive support. Jane Austen gives Fanny Harville and James Benwick a similar situation, waiting years for fortune and promotion, but with family approval and support but Fanny dies anyway, the years of waiting would not have helped her health. Anne was in a no win situation in 1806 and she was 19 and inexperienced.
One other aspect that separates Anne from Elizabeth and Mary in her interior life, she reads widely, plays music regularly and reflects continually. This is something she inherited from her mother, while the other two, like their father, have far fewer inner resources.
Excellent video! Here you talked about so many things about Anne that most people choose to ignore, maybe because they prefer more forcefull characters like Elizabeth Bennett. But I love Anne's quiet and more sweet personality.
But I believe Anne was being true when she told Frederick that breaking up the first engagement was the best. The thing is that HE would neve be content in providing her with less than with she was raised, and not a bit less than what he thought she deserved. He wouldn't stop till getting rich. And nobody digs a long engagement, as mrs Mugrove said.
This is really interesting. Mary has always annoyed me, but your take on her really made me think. In fact, I had to pause the video and really consider your argument. (And it made me feel really sad for her.) Again, great analysis!
Excellent theory, and I love the way you talk about the characters as if they were real, because that is what they are to me.
Your analysis of the characters and the relationship dynamics made the book so much richer.Thank You
This is an excellent examination of Persuasion and the Elliot girls, thanks so much for sharing your thoughts!
This was a wonderful video and some top-shelf literary discussion, just as I’ve come to expect from you! I really love the theory too, and it made me want to read Persuasion.
I've always thought that was the argument Lady Russell used on Anne, but your insight into the loss of their mother affecting the three girls was really interesting and insightful. I so can't wait to read the book again and see them in this new light
I think your explanation makes a ton of sense, and on top of that the other reason that Lady Russell could have given to convince Anne that breaking off the engagement is for Wentworth's good, could be that the couple would be absolutely miserable in a union that is so completely disparaged by her father. After all, anything pertaining to Wentworth's career advancement can be overcome with time and patience, but Sir Walter's attitude is immutable, which means that Anne may think he is better off being "set free" to pursue someone else whose family might be more accepting and welcoming of him, therefore introducing a permanent breach.
But, Wentworth was so angry and hurt, it never occurred to him (until late in the book) that had he returned in 2-3 years to Anne with money and career advancement, she would’ve accepted.
Most insightful. Thank you for this, changed how I view one of my favorite books!
I absolutely love these character analyses that you do! The one you did on Fanny Price is one of my favorite videos on Mansfield Park ever, and to see you give some proper love to my favorite Austen is fantastic. You delivered your theories very well and I've got to say that I agree with your points. I definitely need to reread Persuasion. Its been way too long. Also, just wanted to ask if you happened to have seen either or both Persuasion adaptations and if so which one do you prefer? :)
Love the analysis and I totally agree w/your reasoning for Anne's and Lady Russel's behaviour. Austen requires this type of in-depth, educated analysis and guessing, of putting the pieces of the puzzle together. I especially loved your opening comment, every time you read a Jane Austen book, you say to your self (initially), well there isn't much to this one....on the contrary, there is sooo much in all her novels.
Such an insightful analysis! Some thoughts:
Mary feels abandonment and Anne seems to think that she should try to compensate for Mary's lack of a surrogate mother as Lady Russell had played for her. She cannot play the role of surrogate mother and knows it and seems to treat Mary as broken: she never reprimands Mary. However, Anne constantly tends to her as an invalid.
Sir Walter does one small thing that should make us feel better of him, on page 1 of the novel. Where his beloved Baronetage simply notes the year that Lady Elliot dies, he added the exact date. He demonstrates that he knows the value of his wife, a woman he never seems to mourn. This was a decisive day in the life of their family and he knows it. And the actual day isn't important, because Austen doesn't reveal it, but we are made to feel that this event was of the greatest importance to him. Is it possible that the very young women whom he courts unsuccessfully turn him down because they are not only pretty but also highly intelligent? Had Sir Walter in fact been trying pathetically to recreate his first marriage (for his own benefit, not his daughters, as these are apparently young women; Lady Russell, Austen underscores, the obvious choice, is never bothered)? We have no indication of such small wisdom but it is notable that he chose to court women who would turn him down, as Lady Elizabeth Elliot should have.
I read that passage as Anne self soothing her guilt and regret for turning down Wentworth. That’s why she didn’t explain how it was good for Wentworth. There really wasn’t a reason. Austen even writes it as if Anne consciously knows she’s making excuses. It’s just an excuse after the fact.
I always say you shouldn't read Persuasion until you're at least 30. What makes it so fantastic is how everyone does what they think is best at the time, given the information that's available. At a younger age, I would have disliked Lady Russell. But as I got older, I saw she was 90% right. I don't feel Anne skewed the story to Wentworth. What Anne realizes is that she was in fact too young to marry Wentworth at 19, but that they should have kept in touch. As a female of the gentry, Anne wasn't in a position to earn her own income. If she was to leave her baronet father's house for a man of lesser status, he would need to be worth the social adjustment. Lady Russell was pragmatic--her theme song is definitely What's Love Got To Do With It. She knew that no matter how much you might be in love, a precarious social and financial position would rob Anne of her happiness. There was no welfare, no community college or supplemental income to be earned. People wanna be in love until their stomach rumbles.
So in the end, Wentworth was EVENTUALLY the right man for Anne. I love how Austen showed that both Anne and Wentworth had some growing up to do. Wentworth needed to be able to provide for Anne, but he also needed to learn impulse control and to appreciate that still waters run deep. Anne needed to learn to think for herself and not be a martyr. I also love that Lady Russell may have had her heart in the right place, but she too needed to learn to see a diamond in the rough. The story is such a great lesson in balance, as mentioned in the video. If you meet a great person, you both might need some time to ripen on the vine. Also, social status is no substitute for character. Sacrificing character for status is just as foolish as marrying without any money.
I want to ditto everything you said. I think both Anne and Wentworth needed time to mature. If they had decided "let's wait a few years", instead of the "marriage now or never" stance they both seemed to have at the time, they would have spared themselves a lot of heartache. It was a case of right people, wrong timing.
Thanks, that was great. I had never considered the Elliott sisters from this angle.
This is brilliant and provides some really amazing insights into this story. Thank you for pulling out all of these underlying implications and reasoning behind all of the characters' behavior!
A wonderful take on Persuasion, well done! Aren't those annotated Jane Austen books (David M. Shapard) so worth the cost?! Also, I totally agree with your analysis. Thank you!
Interesting! :) I did so dislike Mary's self absorbness in the book, but your analysis makes me feel more compassionate towards her to explain maybe why she's like that. I agree that Anne could have seen Lady Russell as a mother figure who she didn't want to disappoint and believed she had her best at heart. I also think Anne maybe had low self-esteem or confidence in her own ideas because of her father and Elizabeth's disregard and meaness, so she leaned on someone's else ideas because she didn't think hers were valid. When I finished the book, I honestedly didn't like Lady Russell because I saw it as everything Anne had to go through because of her misguided intereference for class sake. But I can see now how Lady Russell was in a weird controlling way looking out for Anne and trying to protect her from what she saw as a life of scarcity. But my goodness, bad means to go about it! Maybe that's why the Bible says to Fear not because maybe it was fear about Anne that in a sense caused her controlling behavior?
Yay though how things did end up better than Lady Russell believed and Anne's life turned out better than she expected with love and well provided for. :)
Mary was my favourite character honestly, not only was she incredibly humorous I can like understand where she's coming from/sympathize Like she's just such a fun character.
A bit off today's topic but I wanted to let you know that among many other things I have discovered on your channel I will forever be grateful to you for introducing me to Amor Towles and MOST especially Rules of Civility.
This was such a great and in-depth analysis. I'm sure a casual reader would simply dismiss the Elliots and Lady Russell as awful people who held Anne back but you bring up good points on how they actually helped Anne develop into someone stronger and less "persuaded". It's interesting how Anne is younger than Elizabeth but it's she who is put down as the old maid and having lost her bloom rather than her older sister. Elizabeth as her father's favorite and the one most like him is protected from such scrutiny. It's also easy to dismiss Mary as whiny and needy but you've laid out exactly why she ended up the way she has. I feel bad for her, Charles, and their children because it's likely that they will never be a close family due to the lingering trauma.
Apart from Lady Russel Anne's father only knows that sailors are awfully knocked about, has a down on the sailing profession? I can read some resentment in Anne towards Lady R. The keeping of the letters signifies attachment and to have been denied that through being dutiful, awful. Persuasion is the best, most mature of Jane's writing and pictures a woman resigned, removed from the bliss she can all too readily conjure. Contrary to the findings here, mother does not know best. Anne, busy and intellectual shuns that convention the mother figure is attached to. Is Jane, increasingly poorly, endlessly reflective, crushed by her imagining of what could have been, for herself?
I don't think we can equate Jane Austen to Anne, other than Jane being more mature by the time she wrote Persuasion and having seen more of life. In Jane's love life (that we know of) she had a love who was persuaded away from her by his family who thought he could do better, and later in life she accepted the proposal of a man she did not love and then made the decision herself to break it off (surely against the advice of most of those around her). No, Jane does not seem to be the kind of person who let others persuade her, but always seemed to know exactly who she was and what she wanted. I don't think she would have pursued her writing, at a time it was a bit scandalous for a woman, from the time she was a girl until the day she died, otherwise.
Oh, wow, I'm so glad I've found your channel! I was browsing some Persuasion videos to soothe myself after being disappointed with the new movie, and thankfully this showed up! You posses such good rhetoric and I hope to watch more from you soon. You also have such value to transmit with your content, and I deeply appreciate it. Besides, it is quite difficult to find analysis on this book, at least on CZcams, and I'm so glad to see it covered by someone who clearly loves the novel! Much love to you 💝 I hope to see your channel grow even more, because you certainly deserve it.
Oh my stars. My sisters and I are going to watch it Friday night (one of them was away on a business trip, and that's why I haven't watched it yet. Just when all the video essays started cropping up.)
I just have a feeling it's gonna be trash, but hopefully fun trash. Can we please get another great adaptation of Persuasion one day? (I'm fond of the 1971 and 1995 versions.)
I wish the BBC or PBS would make a movie about this book. Have Marilyn Lighthouse be Lady Russell.
I wish someone would make a prequel to persuasion. I feel like there is a lot going on before wentworth comes back.
I had a weird rethink of Ann and Wentworth reuniting.....he is so very, very cold to her when he re-enters her life, sharp, almost nasty. So eventually Ann thinks, " If you can still be holding so much anger and resentment toward me after 9 years, how would you treat me if I made you angry during our marriage?"....lots of shuddering on Ann's part followed by relief and her accepting Charles musgrove who would now have a happy marriage.....it ruins a good book but makes happy people 😊
The title of the vlog caught my eye, "psychology", because I've had watch or read points of view from authors, editors, literary or English teachers and even fans of Jane Austen's books. I dont know if you're a psicologist or not, but it doesn't matter because you base your opinion from a book that you cited (Motherless daughter), and second because your given an opinion on fictional character. I wish you could contact the author and talk about Persuasion because now the book picked my curiosity and want to buy it but I have no feeling for the author.
Nevertheless watching your video made me stop cleaning 🙄 😅 because I want to listen at your narration. It was fun and captivating.
The video is a year old and I just got recommend your video by CZcams's algorithm. I subscribe for the book insight but I glanced and your videos seem insightful. I'm looking forward to watching your videos.
Astute observations. I want to read this book again, since my memories of this story are pretty dim.
Beautifully stated, and very well thought out. What you say makes complete sense. I will share this video with some friends. 🙂
i love knowing about jane austen books to bring me back in time
The psychological impact is lady Elliot's death on the maturity of her daughters is something I hadn't fully parsed out yet. The rest is pretty well covered in the text.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. Very enjoyable to listen to all your insights. You especially changed my view of Mary. I will check out Hope Edelman's book at some point for sure. Interesting stuff!
Brilliant. Thank you 👏
My pleasure 😊
She said she made the right choice in honoring Lady Russel's thoughts on ending the engadgment ; at that time as a dutiful daughter .Showing disrespect to her loved one (almost a gaurdian ) would have sulled he self standing and his. To her it would be dishonerable..It would have made the relationship (marriage )start on a less strong foundation ..Anne as Jane made her is not one who would fib to anyone most importantly Not to Wentworth... Great points though on the three motherless daughters.
This is the interpretation that the next movie adaptation should center. It also makes the new Netflix adaptation even more vapid and senseless.
I loved this!!
Great video!!
Thanks!
Love your take!
Thanks for this video! I thought the analysis was fantastic and spot on. Now I want to go and reread Persuasion.
Just passing by. I actually enjoyed the content. Good insights.
Brilliant analysis. Makes perfect sense.
I think Anne was not ready to get married she had just lost her mother and was not ready to let go of the house she had so many memories with her mom she was scared to let them go so when she was told this was not a good match it just conformed her anxiety so that’s why I believe she turned him down. I also believe that she needed this time to realize that holding onto the past was holding her back in life and her mother would not want that so in the end Anne was able to make her own decision and be Happy.
I am purchasing this novel. I can relate.
This makes so much sense. Thank you.
Love this insight. It's a very good, believable theory!
Love this! I also enjoyed your video on Undine Spragg. Would you be willing to do a psychological video on Lady Susan Vernon?
I’ll pay more attention next time I read it. Mrs Russell always seemed a climber to me. Thx.
Thank you!
Thank you so much! That's very generous of you ❤️
I feel as though Anne might have been more prideful than you make her out be as well. This may have influenced her decision with the first rebuttal of the mairage w Wentworth due to his lack of status and money. A part that shows this vanity and prideful nature of Anne is when she is visiting her father and Elizabeth in Camden Place for the first time. She is disheartened that they do not share the same sadness and uneasiness in being reduced to this smaller and less status inclined home. What do you think?
Very good close reading!
this a really good video. I enjoyed it.
Erudite analysis. I think how the navy promoted men on merit rather than heritage was a new concept in Regency England, the difference between Wentworth's position when Anne rejected him and his position 8 years later were very different, such a rise was very rapid in such a class obsessed society. Captain Wentworth is unlike the other Austen heroes who are either part of the gentry, the aristocracy or the Church of England and whose rank in society is more understandable to the likes of Lady Russell and Sir Walter Elliot.
I think you may be on to something. I just reread the book and this sounds about right. :)
Excellent analysis!
Off topic, Hannah at Hannah's Books and some others are doing a group read of War and Peace from March-May. Interested?
Mary was sent to away to school and didn’t have as much time with Lady Russel.
My theory on Anne turning Wentworth down it’s because Anne was probably ADHD and she was a people pleaser who put everyone else’s happiness first versus thinking of herself. Again book Anne and film Anne are very relatable to myself.