How to Build a DIY Pool Heater for Any Size Pool - Why All My Other Pool Heaters Failed!!!
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- čas přidán 18. 06. 2024
- Todays video is How to Build a DIY Pool Heater for Any Size Pool - Why All My Other Pool Heaters Failed!!!
This is my 3rd design and my favorite so far for my DIY Pool Heater Ideas. This Pool Heater design is perfect for anyone / any pool. All you need to do is build be more less of them for your pool size. Each one is 200 feet of tubing. I designed these to heat water much slower than the previous pool heaters and ensured that this pool heater had the proper support to stand up to the California Sun.
ENJOY - CustomDIY
Parts Breakdown
Black Tubing
www.lowes.com/pd/Raindrip-5-8...
Hose adapters
www.lowes.com/pd/Raindrip-5-P...
Dowel Rods
www.lowes.com/pd/Madison-Mill...
PVC - use which ever size of Schedule 40 you like. The black tubing adapters are 3/4” thread so you need to adapt down to it to connect from PVC to Black Tubing.
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For 20 years we had a large oval above ground pool in Michigan. We used 3 commercial pool heat panels 4x20 ft on a ground mounted platform. The design of the panels was such that you could easily run them in series but the dealer suggested not to do that as it increases the load on the pump and lowers the flow rate. So we used a custom manifold to connect the three panels in parallel. We also used a separate pump to run just the solar heater so we could run it whenever we wanted and it was 1/3 the electric use of the primary pump. I built a simple Arduino controller that ran the pump only when the pool was below our preferred temp and the solar panel was at least 5 degrees above that. In full sun the water coming back into the pool was about 10 degrees higher than the pool through a 1.5" pipe at full flow, so that's a lot of BTU! To prevent cycling I also set a minimum cycle time of 5 min either off or on though this rarely was an issue. This was a set it and forget it solution for the entire summer and the pool was always nearly the perfect temperature.
July 8: Under a solar cover alone the temp is 92 degrees.
@@jamesscott1932 We never covered our pool except when closed for the off-season. This way the kids could use it without the hassle of removing the cover and nobody could ever get trapped beneath it. Plus with the heater it was kept 'just right' for swimming.
@@larrybolhuis1049 only 10 degrees warmer?
What kind and size of pump did you use to run your system separately from the pool pump system?
@@jcwilliams66ours was another pool pump, 1/2 HP motor.
I was a little concerned about the mixed reviews, but I used it last year and hooked it up again this year and it was great czcams.com/users/postUgkx-izdrK3eF-HMvjzeBOxToD6Fx-4ulJUh . I couldn't get my 10' Intex pool above 76 degrees the year prior and last year I got it to 90 and had to put ice in it. This worked so well! I have just 1 mat hooked up to a 1,000 GPH Intex pump and it makes a significant reduction in the flow rate coming back into the pool, but that is to be expected with how far the water has to travel through the mat.
I really appreciate the follow up video with the break down of what went wrong on previous builds. That's how we all learn!
The next one will be even better. Lol. Hopefully the last one…
Nice video but a recommendation... I don't think you should be trying to throttle flow based on temperature. It's all about the BTUs going into the system from the sun. That doesn't change so it doesn't matter if you are flowing 1 gpm and getting 150 degree water or flowing 20 gpm and seeing a 2 degree temperature rise because the BTU heating into the pool is the same. The difference is in where you mention you keep the polycarbonate off the roof because it gets too hot. You are actually allowing BTUs to "escape" by doing this and thus not putting those BTUs into your pool. You'll be far far better off in this case to keep the poly ON but keeping flowrate HIGH to keep the temperature down so it doesn't melt your piping. Doing that will put more BTUs into your pool. Anyway, just wanted to point out that the temperature on your outlet pipe doesn't matter... it's the BTU input. :)
Thank you.
That's what I said about previous iterations. Get the flow rate right up, the idea is to get the heat into the pool, not waste it cranking up higher collector temperatures. You can't swim in 110 degree water.
Somebody needs to manufacture a coil through some molding process where each coil shares a common wall. This would reduce material by at least 25 - 40% and you wouldn’t have to spend all that time wrangling tubing into a circle. You could even design it with 90 degree corners to fit well in an enclosure, even though the fluid passages maintained a radius for good flow that took advantage of the wasted corner spaces to improve efficiency. The model could be scaled in any ID tubing, and rectangular shapes for different installations. You could use extruded Aluminum with 90 degree corners like a screen is made for site assembly. The extrusions could have mounting tabs that align with holes in the molded flow tubing. Maybe someone already makes something like that, or there really isn’t any demand. Just seems like a good idea…
@@fishandgameman someone has used walled poly carbonate sheet. They just haven't followed it up with data. The principles seem sound though as the water snakes through.
@@fishandgamemanwould be prone to leaks I'd think
I don’t know much about water flow and heating but the constant learning and community feedback working towards the most efficient/cost effective system is so cool! The fun is in the problem solving, not the solved problem! Never give up! 🥳
That’s what’s happening here. With all the feedback I’ve been getting from everyone I’m pretty sure version 4 is going to be close to perfect.
As someone who has done these for pools myself, I recommend keeping your plumbing at 2 inch. Then restrict the 2 inch pipe on the roof down to your 3 heating coils, then back to 2 inch going back down to the original plumbing, this will help to make sure your pressure does not spike, it will also move the water much quicker through your system so it doesn't melt your system. And also you won't have to use a ball valve to force it. You can shut the ball valve off completely and the flow and pressure would stay the same. Also of you're going to keep the roof seal with the plexiglass, I recommend you find a way to vent it. That heat held in like that drives the air temp up to 250-300° in the summer time.
Yep...my first was first was landscape tubing. Melted that sucker down on initial testing.
I think the only way to go is stainless steel tubing in the collector honestly with a heat plate. But that is spendy.
Yes, definitely something I will be updating when I install my new automation.
Yes, I agree with this theoretical plan. The rate of flow is critical to success and the weakness of these long tube systems is in their rate of flow. Thank you very much for the video, all of the difficult work that was put into designing and building these systems from plastic. Your timing is good.
I’m in the middle of building a system using copper. this is my second system with copper. The first one lasted 41 years. It is expensive compared to plastic, but reportedly it is 60% more efficient and it certainly does last.
I am installing two sets of four panels. The Total is just under 300 ft.² with a 3/8 inch copper tube every four inches. 96 tubes v. 3. The pool surface is about 800 Square feet. So maybe my new system is a little undersized.
A “plumber-advisor” sort of like a psychologist for DIYers recommended a “globe” valve or a “needle” valve to regulate the flow rather than the ball valve I had been using.
We’re did you find the black pex tubing ?
Putting in a heating system myself. Bought a heater but the solar system looks like the way to go. Thanks for the tutorial and the comments from others is also a massive help.
I was on a building job back in 91 in the UK and the owner had a pool with a black hose pipe going all around the edge, probably 10-20 times to heat the water. It was great to take a dip on a hot sunny day but one day we weren't told the pump had been switched of and the temp had got down about 10 degrees so we had a shock when we jumped in!🥶
This method of using the dowels is the way to go! Thanks for the video..
Here are a few suggestions for making your solar heater system better, safer and more efficient.
#1 Get a water pump dedicated to supplying your solar heater system. A "hot water recirculating pump" would be ideally suited for this.This will also negate the need for any valve or valve adjustment between the inlet and outlet of your solar heater, and unburden your main pool pump from pushing water up to the solar heater.
#2 Use a temperature controller to activate your solar water pump whenever the temperature in your solar panel is above 100 degrees.
This will automate the fill and flow process and protect your solar panel from overheating, melting and from operating when cold.
#3 Setup a manual override to force the solar pump on during testing.
#4 Use solenoids to allow filling and draining of your solar heater. Empty when not used and freeze protection.(need separate drain)
#5 Add an enable switch and temperature controller for your fill and drain solenoids, also with a manual override for testing.
(note" #2 would be enabled by #5 if you use solenoids)
I hope this gives you some food for thought and helps you to upgrade your system.
This is a great video. However the times have changed in favor of the products in today's given time. Instead of doing solar paneling and having to wait till the sun can generate enough heat to get hot water to the pool. I opted for a 8 gallon electric tankless water heater. I wanted the ability to have on demand hot water at well and not wait for the sun and what if overcasting was an issue. But after 1 hour of installation with a water transfer pump two hoses I now get 150° of water at will. I also bought a digital timer so that way The tankless water runs 15 minute intervals and turns off 1 to 2 minutes and restarts again. I could have went with solar and was about to do so but by the time I would have calculated all the pieces needed for an extra $100 I decided to splurge with the tankless water heater, it's just the options today you don't have to work as hard using solar. Not saying solar is not a good solution it is for those who get plenty of sun.
Perfect - binged watched your pool heater vids - thanks for going up and over the “ learning curves” so I can do it right the first
Time. greatly appreciated. god bless you man
Got another coming any day now… should be the ultimate build… if I can get the PEX pipe to cooperate!
So, there are a few reasons your other attempts failed actually. The first is going to be water flow. I come from the PC liquid cooling space personally and this is something we pay attention to quite alot. You need more flow through the black tubing. Doing this will mean that the tubing can only get so hot at any given time but still give a great chance to let the water heat up. This is due to the fact that water will pull a ton of heat out of the tubing. The more flow the better. The second is already mentioned in another comment. Putting the plexiglass over the top will drive the temps way high. Which is good to some degree but partnered with the problem of not enough flow this will instantly start melting pipe. So instead you should have some sort of venting mechanism. It doesn't have to be much but just enough. If you even did something as simple as putting venting holes in the side of the case it would be enough. So first increase the flow through the tube, ideally all of your water flow through that tube for best results. Next, the venting. If you do both of these you won't have any issues.
Think of this like the balloon with water in it. If you put water in a balloon and hold a lighter to it, it doesnt pop. Because the water is keeping the temperature under control.
Thanks for the update
You clearly don't understand thermodynamics but decent build. Increase flow through heaters to increase heat into the pool. This will also keep the heaters cooler which will make the plastics happier. Also think about thermal expansion., Slowing the pipes to move as they heat up and get longer.
Lots of good info and learning from experience in the video and in the comments.
I'd make the spirals with the send and return lines paired, with a U bend in the centre. Lines could enter/exit together or on opposite edges. This way the spiral can stay flat without overlaps.
Slow flow is great if you want to make a cup of coffee, heat radiators for the house or do the washing up, but high flow within reason is best for getting energy out of the system.
Of course, running at a high flow rate uses peak rate energy so a trade off is needed. A couple of solar panels could do this as it only needs to pump when the sun is up.
spray flat black paint on the pipes where you hit it with temp gun , any shiny or reflective surface will give false readings as the beam from gun deflects and hits something near by
amazing work man ! thanks a lot
Great video. At first I bought 1/2" tubing from Home Depot, then bought 5/8" from Lowes before I installed, but the smaller Home Depot tubing actually has a larger inside diameter than Lowes smaller tubing. The wall thickness feels the same. Its probably all from the same manufacturer with different casting dates i'm guessing
Great Vid, I appreciate all the attempts, as I've been doing similar things. One thing to keep in mind is that the goal is not to get the water as hot as possible, its to get as much heat into the pool. You slowed the flow several times to show increases temp, but that is also what's making your other attempts fail. Said another way, a small amount of super hot water is not better than a large amount of slightly hotter water. The thermal dynamics are the same in the main body of water. Increase your flow as much as possible to protect the heater. You won't gain anything by slowing it down. I've had several attempts fail with the "Sprinkler Hose" for too. It just isn't made for this kind of heat. Pex hose or garden hose allow much more flow, and have higher temp ratings if you have to try again.
Add a flow meter on the heating inlet and measure the inlet/outlet temp, then you can calculate the effect being added to the pool. Always nice to see how effective your setup is.
You mention "shutting off" the heater once the pool is up to desired temperature. The only way to do so would be to cover the collectors. Uncovered with water inside will result in boiling, steam, then rupture. Uncovered with water drained will result in melted tubing and fittings.
Great videos, trial and error helps me shortcut my project. I have had ever evolving plans for over 15 years and am absolutely doing it this year.
I noticed you used white, schedule 40 PVC and would suggest schedule 80 because it is good to 200 degrees and 550 PSI. It comes in a dark gray color.
I have looked at an adjustable mounting so as to limit the heat by angling the panels away from the sun slightly.
Keep up the good work
Since you're more interested in the pool temperature and not the temperature of the water coming out the heater - you should have the flow as high as you can. This will give the best thermal transfer ability and heat the pool more.
This is correct temperature differential is what you want but slowing the flow through the solar panels makes the differential greater in the pipes but slows the heating of the pool water. It is not a big difference in the time it takes to change the temperature of the pool water temperature but your system will run cooler and save on maintenance You should also add a vacuum breaker to the 2" pipe on the roof to drain the system when the pump goes off. Search this...
HELIOCOL 3/4" New Vacuum Relief Valve Pool Solar
THANK YOU!!!!!!
Yes sir!
Great video. I would recommend putting in two spigots just above the black valves (1.25" tee with 1/2" female NPT thread). That way you can drain/purge the system for winter. Don't want to see all your hard work crack after the first freeze.
Doesn’t freeze here, but yes I’m adding them to the next version of this. Gotta make it perfect!
It appears that if you close the 2 valves on the risers going to the roof, the tubing can get so hot that it creates steam pressure and blows the system apart. It appears that if you left one side a straight flow, excess pressure would transfer to the pool piping and not over pressure the heater coils. Just an explosive thought.
Thank you for your generous sharing! a couple questions for the experts 🙏
Trying to build a system for my 13,000 Gallons pool, (38'x12'x4') where the water temperature in summer averages from 72F to 77F, never warmer😒, we are high in the mountains ( freezes in winter..)
Planning 3000' long black irrigation PE 3/4Inch thick, sectioned to 8x400' in parallel, NO plexiglass, just laying on a black nylon cover.
1/ Is using a 1/2 inch vs 3/4 better in conductivity vs flow?
2/ What Wall thickness to use in either 3/4 or 1/2 inch pipes? the thinner the pipe the better transfer of heat to water, but too thin and its damaged?? What is the rule on PE Pipe Wall thickness?🙏
3/How better is it to build the system with vented plexiglass vs just laying them one the floor?
4/ better to loosen the pipe coiling I hear vs tightening the coil, more exposure?
5/Better to insulate the floor even if there is no plexiglass?
6/the main pipes from the pool are 1.5 inch thick, how many sections in parallel at which length each if using a 3/4 or 1/2 ' 3000 feet long PE
Thank you for your precious help, good luck to all 😊🙏🙏
Very grateful
Rock Chalk!! I dint know they had palm trees in Kansas lol
Really appreciate your videos on this topic.. super helpful.
There’s probably a way to put an auto open/close valve to respond to temperature.. It wouldn’t be that hard to write a little program for a dedicated raspberryPI to control a bypass to optimize the temp to exactly where you want it to be..
Next system will be fully automated
@@chrisbuildsitall you’re on pace to set the Guinness record for building the most solar heating systems for the same pool.
@@chrisbuildsitall my pool guy offered to do the plumbing setup and said don't even think about doing this w/o adding an automatic actuator and temp integration w/ iaqualink app.. That enables full automation and auto bypass if it gets above target temp..
vary cool
What I found doing water cooling systems for computers is that the flow is more important than the temperature. Meaning, that if you have like 1 to 2 degrees more on the pipe coming from the heating unit at a higher flow rate it is better than having like 10-20 degrees coming from it at a lower flow rate. Also you do not want to feel like crazy warm temperatures at the outlet in the pool, but slowly increasing the temperature. That way the materials live longer 🙂
Good video, very in depth. I think im doing it next season. Id like to see a comparison using copper pipe in the box. Plastic has poor thermal transfer where copper has high. Just curious if itd be worth the extra expense.
If you could get enough copper I think it would work better. I’ve tried everything except copper so far and the black tubing def works the best. I’d also suggest to build the system 2 times as big as you think you need
Thanks for this video! Amazing job! I have 2 questions if you don't mind:
1. What's the point of a valve on the return flow?
2. How do you know how much to turn the central ball valve to redirect flow?
For the ball valve. I’m basing it off of how the pump is running. If you close it too much you will lose all flow. So I set it to where the pump basket still showed good movement and I was seeing a temp increase in the water
Awesome Build! Quick question for you, I just built my own and I can't seem to get the water much hotter, I do have around 2-300 ft long of irrigation hose in my panel and a clear cover (not seal yet) the water on the outlet is only around 5-10 degree hotter.
Do you have to stand it up vertically? or have it directly facing the sun? My panel is mounted high up, slightly tilted but tilted toward the pool and not the sun, but it does get full exposure to sunlight. I do notice the water gets way hotter before i mount it up and it was below pool level and standing up leading against the pool.
Thanks
When it’s down low it’s much easier for the pump to move water through it. 5-10 degrees is still pretty good though. My new system only increases 1-2 degrees but I’m moving 20,000 gallons a day through it so my pool heats up better than the old one that had 30 degree increase but I could only move 2000 gallons of water through it.
Reading that more flow works better this is my question - I have a roll of "sort of" flexible 1.5" black plastic pool pipe leftover. Would using that larger pipe (with connectors) in the box like a radiator (in at bottom row, out at top row) transfer enough heat? This would keep the entire run at 1.5" like the rest of my inground pool avoiding reductions and pressure changes. This would be connected to pump/return system with valves etc. Any thoughts?
It could work, problem with that is that it probably won’t pick up much heat as it moves through the pipe. It’s definitely worth a shot though, even if you can get 1 or 2 degrees increase it would work for the long run I think.
You can buy temp gauge that spring holding on the pipe it's not electric but you have to get correct size spring which clips toback of temp gauge.
Great videos! I learnt a lot and made my system out of an older pvc damaged fence 6’x6’ panels with some wood reinforcement.. question, when you let all the water flow through the 1/2” solar tubing (and shut off your 1-1/2” by pass valve) how does the flow look entering the pool? You showed a video of the air bubbles but that was when the by pass was open. Does the flow look very minimal? Thank you!
It’s pretty slow on full bypass. I am redoing it with 2” pipe going up and 1.5” pipe coming down. With that I will get much better flow. My current setup the pipe is too small and restricts the flow too much but is perfect for the heater, so I also need to add a 4th heater .
@@chrisbuildsitall thank you!
Thanks for responding to my previous question. Have you or anyone considered using a separate pump? I am starting my build soon and leaning in that direction. The question is how to size the pump and gph. I plan on having two 5'x5' sections, and without any accurate understanding, I was considering a 1/2HP pump powered with a timer set to daytime hours. From what I can tell, running more gph is preferable for efficiency but also for avoiding pipe failure due to overheating.
That is far too powerful of a pump. Consider how many amps your proposed pump will burn. You might use $100/mo. Worth of electricity. Check out a pond pump. Scale your pump to the volume of water it takes to recirculate half or a third of your pool in four hours from 10:00 am. to 2:00 pm.
I tried an 1/16 hp pump from Amazon. It worked well but wasn’t suited for pool water and wound up rusting out.
Did you use Pex? drip irrigation pipe or something like funny pipe used to remotely place sprinkler heads?
It’s drip irrigation pipe. 5/8 in. If your building recommend using regular pex, I’m arelady working on a new setup that will use pex
Very interesting project! I liked the look and construction of your third incarnation. Do you have a cost basis for this?
The pex project -
Pex - $200 - through Vevor.com
Wood for boxes $20 ea box
Polycarbonate tops - not part of video - $50 a box
Plumbing - $100
Total - about $600
Thanks again!!!!!!!. I hope you do another update on this project. I may make one myself. My roof solar panels are nearing the end of their lives and those things are expensive......@@chrisbuildsitall
Salut.Daca aa pume teava de inox flexibila nu ar fi mai buna?
I appreciated you walking us through the trial-and-error process and the lessons you learned. I believe you used a 5/8" pex pipe. Was it type A or B, and what was the approximate cost? The earlier comment on CPVC not being available in black. Is it materially different based on color? I noticed some others were spray painting the pipe black - suggesting the paint had UV protection while the pipe itself did not. I have a 34,000 gal. pool. I just installed the Hayward 140k heat pump, but I'm afraid to rely on it for all my needs. Electrical costs just took a 40 percent hike here in PA. Any suggestions would be sincerely appreciated.
I used landscape tubing, probably won’t use again because of how easily it can rupture when hot. I would use pex a since it’s the most flexible type. If you can’t find it in black then you’ll have to paint it black once you’ve built your heater. Guessing your pool is around 20’ wide and 40’ long so you’ll need around 800 feet of tubing, or 4 of these heaters I built. Heat pumps are tough to run if you don’t have solar power. You might look at getting a small array just to power your pool equipment. Then you can run your heat pump all the time and get some good use out of it.
For got the cost. The units I built cost about $50 - $75 each to build. If you pex if will be more expensive like around $150 each. I’d make the frames probably 5’ square because pex comes in 300’ rolls.
@@chrisbuildsitall Thanks for the quick response. Yes it’s about those dimensions but a lazy L design. I thought about Pex but it’s not in black and was told it cannot withstand UV. Maybe the paint will protect it? I really want to take advantage of solar and I am itching to build one of these. With all of the plumbing at the pump and the heater build itself, I want to do as much as possible to avoid failures while staying cost effective. Thanks again.
@@chrisbuildsitall I definitely like the idea of the larger 5x5 frames with the 300’ coil. Track saw coming UPS today so I can practice in that extra 1’ rip.
@@ronwilt940 You are correct, Pex can not tolerate uv exposure, would not recommend it for this type of system. He used the word pex in the video incorrectly, what he used was not pex.
wouldnt it have been better using cpvc since pvc failed before? Just wondering since cpvc can take hotter water.
If you can find it in black yes. One of the reason my last one failed was because I twisted the lines and linked them causing a small twist in the line and that where they broke. That’s why I built the news ones the way I did, just unraveling them and keeping them from twisting or kinking. But black CPVC would be superior!!
@7:50 You said, you've got 1.25" pipe and three 5/8" hoses that is more than what 1.25" ends up being. This is incorrect. Each "hose" has a cross-section of 0.30679 in^2 totaling 0.92036 in^2. While the cross-section on 1.25" pipe is 1.2271 in^2. You will still have a restriction at your sink-elements.
Also, because you're using manifold to distribute your water through the three sinks, and each sink as the same size fittings, you will see less flow through the last sink on the manifold. This means the temp will be higher in the last sink compared to 1st.
I agree with Brent Franker. Adjust the flow for max BTU transfer, not temp delta. This will ensure max heat is being removed from the system. i.e. Protecting all that Polyvinyl chloride :)
I am surprised that you didn't use CPVC or copper considering your prior experience with overheating the PVC. Painting the PVC is not doing you any favors either. The problems are only going to get worse when you shutoff the water flow because you've reached the desired temp. The pipes are going to cook without the water flowing.
One last food for thought. If you are not condensing the Freon in your A/C with your pool water, you're missing an opportunity to save money on your electric bill to cool your house AND heat your pool at the same time. Mention me in a reply, if you want more details.
Mmmm Hmmmm now my brain is condensing. I’ve been using pool water.
I have just one question why he dont use pex pipe designed for heating ? at small pressure (up to 3 bar) they can handle up to 90 Celsius
When putting the solar heater up on a roof, did you have any problems with a vapor lock slowing or preventing water flow? I'm planning on using a copper coil on an angled roof and want to make sure the water will flow. I had hot water heat years ago and when the system was opened and serviced, the water wouldn't flow until the plumber vented the last return line from the second floor. I think it may not be a problem as the discharge will be to an open pool rather than a closed boiler system.
No issues, but I also have a vent at the highest point.
Thanks for such great videos. I'm planning to do this in the next month but with 1 inch (3x300 ft.). Do you see any issues with that? I also want to use a motorized 3 way valve hooked up to a temp switch so it will auto turn off at a certain temp and back on at a set temp but that will be rather ambitious. If anyone has any ideas about that I would love to hear. Thanks again!
I’m going to doing the same thing with my new automation pretty soon. You’ll need same really good direct sunlight to heat a 1 inch pipe but it’s doable. If you have automation you just hook the temp sensor up to you solar temp port on your board, set your desired temp and let it rip!
@@chrisbuildsitall I don't have a board or controller. I wonder if a furnace thermostat would work? Any suggestions?
There are commercial controllers made for this. They use 2 temperature sensors. One for the pool water temperature to turn it on when the pool needs heat and one for the temperature at the collector which turns off the flow if the temperature of the collector is not warmer than pool water to prevent the heater from radiating heat from the water and cooling it off. This optimises for cloudy weather and automatically shuts the heater off at night.
My question is with the complete assembly as in the video what is the weight of the unit (Without water and then with water in the assembly system) trying to determine if I can lift the assembly onto my roof without asking for help.
Respectfully
Bill S.
@@williamschopp6243 I made a 7x7 ft frame with 400 ft of 3/4 inch ploy times 2. Each unit was maybe 100 pounds and was managed fine by two guys. Using a calculation , even filled with water only adds about 120 pounds on top of that weight.
You don't need to restrict the flow my friend. The more water you flow through the system, the more kilowatts of heat you get out of the collector and into your pool. it doesn't matter if the returned water is not so warm, because the total amount of heat is greater due to the increased water flow. The only limitation is the amount of power you want to consume with your pump.
You would have a better, balanced flow to each heater panel if you reversed your heater panel discharge header. You should have first panel in on supply header is the last panel out on the discharge header. Your supply header is panel 1 (tee), panel 2 (tee) and panel 3 (90) (from holes in the roof, near to far). So your supply header should be panel 3 (tee), panel 2 (tee), panel 1 (90) and have it 90 back down through the pool eq house roof near panel 3. Return it to the pump under the roof a/n. Try to keep the total amount of pipe before and after the panels back to the pump room the same length. As you have it piped in this video it's likely one of the panels is carrying more load than the others.
I agree with another commentator, the total pipe sizing of the panels should be the volume of the pool piping itself 2". Rule of thumb the capacity of a pipe doubles for each regular plumbing line size, 1/2" is half of 3/4" is half of 1" is half of 1.25" is half of 1.5" is half of 2". You can check this by computing the area of the interior diameter of the pipe, (multiply by length for volume). Area of 2" pipe (ID 2.067 for sch 40) = 3.3556 sq in. Area of 5/8" irrigation tube (ID 0.6) = 0.28274 sq in. With three panels you are at 0.28274x3=0.84822. You can make it work but you have to guesstimate how to throttle that ball valve (not made for that use case.) That BV should be replaced with an actual flow control device if you're keeping this set up.
On version 4, go 4 coils of 1" tube pulling off of 2" headers. First panel in on supply header, is last panel out on return header. If the tubing is rated for the pressure you can leave the ball valve and just shut it when you want to use the heater. Open it, and close the valve on the heater supply side when you don't. Inside the pump room, I'd also put a ball valve just after the tee on the heater supply side and a check valve (you only need one,) then up through the roof.
Differential is what you want but slowing the flow through the solar panels makes the differential greater in the pipes but slows the heating of the pool water. It is not a big difference in the time it takes to change the temperature of the pool water temperature but your system will run cooler and save on maintenance You should also add a vacuum breaker to the 2" pipe on the roof to drain the system when the pump goes off. Search this...
HELIOCOL 3/4" New Vacuum Relief Valve Pool Solaralldrain
The relief valve is automatic and lets air in the pipe when the pump goes off. Install the valve on a tee before the first panel so they all drain. :)
Thank you. I’ve added a vacuum relief valve to the plans on the new system I’m building
´´´well but u said in the end of the vieo that u will shut down the system at the summer peak because of course, then beeing inside the pool will be as beeing inside a soup pot :-) ,,, But then your pipes will Melt,,, As u know by now this is a Permutation,,,, , keeping water flowing is the bases for "not melting" Great content keep working 👍
You've got your heart in the right place but thinking a little skewed. The macro is capturing the available energy from the sun and not letting it go. Energy transfer is based around, materials conductivity, temperature differential, convection and time. You don't want to lose energy is the missed point, a great way of energy loss is temperature differential, heating the water way up on the roof then passing it through the down pipes, underground plumbing to the pool then the localised surface and pool wall is an easy way to loose heat simply because the high temperature differential. Lifing the temperature slightly over the pool temp is very efficient (not including pumping losses) to minimise temp losses per time. The reverse is working for you on the roof, large temp gradient of the air in the roof boxes by the sun heating and extra cold water throughout the hose loops offers maximum available temp transfer/time. The pool industry sell "solar" blankets and these things work by trapping in the heat or really slowing the losses. Increasing the flow rate to maintain a small temp rise will maximise the energy gain from the sun and minimise the losses in the system.
If you want an optimised pool setup, an insulated pool shell, a Dark tile or Dark liner pool (they look deeper when dark), insulated plumbing, a pool surround of dark WPC deck that runs water through it (patented) back to the pool, a pool blanket and roof top tubing is the max passive design for heating. Your pool is hotter and gains more usable days while the deck is cool and in winter the deck is warmed by the pool water (that you're not using) so allows for greater deck usage.
Thanks for the advise. I’m taking lots of notes for the next and hopefully final heater.
Nice assessment. You don't need to heat the water very high when you have sufficient flow to keep the temperature manageable. A larger volume of warmed water will transfer as much or more of the available sun's energy than raising it to higher temperatures, as explained above.
A solar blanket is unbeatable for cost, slower chemical burn, heat retention and most importantly, the greenhouse effect. I consistently see 10 degrees higher temp. I’ve had 80 degree water since the first week of April with a blanket alone.
I enjoy the attempts. Question wouldn’t there be flow rate problems going from the 1.25” to the 2” pipe to flow down to the main system? I have seen this method is the best way to get good efficiency. Nice plumbing though.
Yes, using the 1.25” was a mistake. I’m making a new system now that should correct all the issues and hopefully be perfect!! Video will be out next weekend.
Don't see the video? Still in the works?
Nice video but just one question would it be better to go into 1 heater then have the flow go thru the other 2 and then to pool instead of the way that u r doin it? U r goin into each one and exiting each one. I think u would build up more heat by going into one and exiting the 3rd one if that makes sense.
The water would be much warmer that way but you lose 2/3 of your water movement. What I’ve learned through this whole process, is it’s better to move a lot of slightly warmer water than it is to move a small amount of really warm water. My new system moves a ton of water but only heats it by 1-2 degrees, but I can heat every drop of water in the pool 2 or 3 times a day.
@@chrisbuildsitall thanks good point.
Its really nice job here :) Just an idea, what about thermal isolation of hot pipe? with some foam which is supposed to be on pipes? like inside houses? tha can prevent to some heat loss, right? Not sure if it make sense in your place. But really nice job :) thumb up :) Also, what about making it from some copper pipes? With some silverbased paint? Silver is best thermal conductor, copper one of the best thermal conductors too and it can withstand high temperature, so if you will forget some water inside, it will not melt it up, with some good welds it can survive for really long time :)
Next one is going to be actual PEX
I watched your previous videos and its seems like your using normal PVC (140 max) and not CPVC (200 max). On your previous systems I would bet its getting up to 210+ cause of the steam. wishing you luck with this system
I actually did the exact same things you did in your previous videos and had to shut down the project because the heat kept springing leaks and melting other portions of the project. Since then I have yet to redo the project. I like the design you did in this video. Can you please update me on the current status of the project and if you have run into anymore issues? Thank you!
Had a couple splits in this one also. I’m in the process of building a new system that should be 100% reliable!
@@chrisbuildsitall Where did your new leaks come from as I am about to start mine up again? Is it the tubing that melted and popped? Or maybe the plastic connectors? For me at first the connecters warped and caused the leak. I fixed it with metal connectors. Then later the tubing got too hot sprung some leaks. What are you looking at now to fix your problem? Thank you! Best of luck!
Copper pipe rolled works great
You've stumbled onto the main problem of solar water heaters, which is that if the sun is out water NEEDS to flow thru the heater, even if you don't need it heated. This is true for househould solar heaters too, and you need to be able to dump the hot water somewhere even if you don't need it. If the sun is out and water is not flowing temperatures in the system get so high they all get ruined eventually. so keep the pump running if the sun is up (or get a smaller solar pump for that)
Hi, I'm building something similar but freestanding. 4x8 treated plywood base.
Is there a reason you went with a round vs Oval shape for the coils?
My thought is that an oval would put a bit more pipe area in the rectangle vs 2 circles.
Also it looked like you had 4x4 coils. If you happen to know how much pipe went in to each that would be helpful.
Thanks
Nick..
Round is MUCH easier to do without kinking the tubing. I used 200 feet in each
Great. Thanks for getting back. What I'll finally end up with will be similar to yours. Winter here is colder so I'll end up with 12x coils.
Not yet decided if I should cut the 4x8 to 4x4 to make coiling easier. Will see how the first goes.
Does anyone have a suggestion for losing pressure going into the 2nd coil/board? These worked perfect when I had them right next to my pump/filter but when i moved them into a better spot for the sun, I lost the pressure bc of the distance they are from my pump/filter. TIA
You could try reducing the size of the line after the first one to increase pressure??
i'd suggest replacing a few feet of your PVC pipes (probably on the high side just after your filter, the heated return line, and the main return) with clear piping. it's just nice to see what's going on at a glance, and if the filter material ever migrates downstream, you'll be able to see when the heater coils are clear. there are some nice flow meters you can get to get really good data over time (though can restrict flow if not oversized), and pressure sensors, and temp sensors, so that you can measure all that stuff every 5-10 minutes and hopefully catch stuff going wrong before it goes crisis. the sensors can be run off inexpensive electronics that can report over wifi - look up projects with the esp based SOCs. pie in the sky - you'd have temp sensors and powered flow adjustment valves so that you can increase flow when the upstairs tubing gets too hot and needs more flow to keep the temp up there down. i suppose you have a reflective tarp cover for times when it gets too hot. oh, and the pressure sensors are nice to keep tabs on when the filter needs maintenance.
anyway, nice to see your progression through DIY heating options. i like that you've used the main circulating pump to do your work for you - i think the way our landscaping works, we'll have to have a separate pump for the solar heating system.
More connections more possible leaks.
Hi Chris, I am going to build the solar heater, but I have a smaller pool, a 15 x 15 round above ground pool. I watched your video and just love it but you didn't show or talk about the sizes of the supplies you used. So, I was wondering if you can send me or put on this video in the comments what I need to buy. You have the best video on building the solar heater so I have watched it a couple of times, I'm 77 years old and a disabled Vet so I would appreciate any help you can give me. I'm intending on using blue Pex A that has a UV rating guaranteed of at least 1 year protection, Thanks again for your advice and help.
Thanks for the commment - do me a favor and email me at chrisbuildsitall@gmail.com and I’ll send you a detailed list. If you include pictures of your equipment I can tell you everything you will need.
My newest video I used Pex as my tubing and it’s much better detailed also.
Send me that email and I’ll get you all the info you need. Chris
Please If I can kindly be enlightened if not on the below questions, just About Wall thickness of the long pipe, the thinner the pipe the better transfer of heat to water? but too thin and its damaged?? What is the rule on PE Pipe Wall thickness? Should I go for thick or thin Wall?
Thank you
I used the thin wall tubing that is used in landscaping irrigation. It transfers heat very well but needs to be set up just right to keep it from failing. If I was building another system I would use PEX tubing that you use for indoor plumbing. It’s extremely sturdy and resistant to heat up to something like 200 degrees .
the salt cell is in the wrong place. I suspect the chlorine gas could have caused your units to get damaged. I would move the cell to the other side. After the heater should be best.
I would put a serviceable check valve on the way to the roof after the three way.
Use black ABS pipe instead of white PVC.
Starting at the lowest unit on the inlet side you could have saved money by using a 1.25x1x1 tee. Then reduce the 1 inch to 5/8 inch going to the 1st heater.
At the 2nd heater use a 1x5/8x5/8 tee. Then run 5/8 inch line to tge 2nd and 3rd heaters.
Repeat on the outlet side of the heaters.
Further if you reduce flow to the heaters you will see a higher heater outlet temperature. Except with your setup you also increase the flow of water bypassing the heaters.
This means you are combining the hot water with cold water. You will find that although the temperature of the heater outlet is higher the combined water should remain the same.
Think of it this way.
Decreased flow of heater with higher temperature.
increased flow of cold water
The average temp stays the same.
1/2inch black pecs tubing ? Where do you find it ?
That is landscape tubing. Can get at any hardware store.
You might want to improvise an easy way to roll a cover over the heater for whenever the pump isn't going to cool things off. Otherwise, you'll have more melty tubes judging by the history of this system.
Or make another version for even more content.
Oh version 4 is in the works…
@@chrisbuildsitall #4 🫣😲 . . . oh my . . . will wait to see how you improved that one AGAIN! . . . it's fun learning from you and how YOU did things, then again as i'm in Bavaria, Germany and NOT having the CA heat like you deal with, i might just be pleased with #3 as it is now at your setup? Anyway, enjoy some pool-time too, not only the setting up over and over again, as much as i like watching those different videos from you, but enjoy the plunge too 💦 🏊♀️ 🏊♂️ 💦 ☀️ 😎 👍🏻👌🏻 Can't actually wait, to see some splash time 💦 enjoyment too, in a natural heated pool! 👍🏻😉
Just curious, but why tarpaper liner? Will not not flat black paint work as well?
Just quicker than painting. Just needed something black to hold heat
Okay. Anxiously awaiting you next heater video. Any idea when it might be ready?
Is there any difference if there is a spacing between pipes?
There could be… but you sacrifice length / amount of time the water heats or picks up temp if you space them out
@@chrisbuildsitall but if you leave a bit of space between wouldn't it mean more pipe surface gets sunshine?
What is the apprx weight of each panel when full of water?
They are about 30lbs empty and about 60lbs full I’d guess.
Gravity system is the way to go, no moving parts! Nothing to go wrong.
Aren't there thermal resistant piping for that?
There are definitely options that will hold up better. Check out my latest pool heater video.
Can you put a parts list in the description of everything you used?
Yes. Give me a bit and I’ll get it in there.
A comment and a question:
If the pipe is HOT it heats up the air around it, not the pool. Keep the pipes cool by running more water through.
Have you measured the load on the pump motor? The pump has to work harder to push water through the extra pipe. I wouldn't be surprised if you're paying more for electricity for the pump than you would for gas for the heater.
Purpose of this system was to move more water faster which it did well but not good enough.
Most pumps today show you the actual load/usage right on the screen. Almost no change on this system because it was such a short run.
any idea when you will publish?
It’s gonna be a few weeks. Still doing some planning on the plumbing side and updating all my automation so the new system will run automatically.
If your goal is to get the most solar energy into the water, faster flow will get more energy into the water than slower flow. The temperature of the water from the roof will be lower, but you will get more water at that lower temperature, which will be more heat energy. Cold water absorbs heat energy better than warmer water. Put all the water to go up to the heater and more of the solar energy will get into the water, and your whole system will run better. You cannot run the water through the solar system too fast - the energy still goes into the water.
Thank you
I think your polycarbonate covering causes you far more problems and about half of your cost than is will ever help you. Use larger black poly pipe or more circuits so that you can have your entire pump volume go through the heater without excessive pressure loss. The water should leave the heater only a few degrees above the pool temperature. At this temperature, there shouldn't be much loss to the surrounding air.
Doing that on the new one I’m working on.
You just forgot the time for heating. The water can not flow without stop to get heat.
May use a timer or a thermostat. The thing is: water gets up and fill the hoses; stay imobile for some minutes; go back to the pool. After 10 minutes stoped under the sun the water can reach 100°C. But in a nonstoping cicle it gets less than 50°C
You have the hot californian sun and a huge mound of stones/boulders that heat up in the sun...
Why don't you use those hot stones/boulders and run the water from the pump over those in the style of a natural waterfall?
Easiest way to heat the water up without too much hassle.
could previous versions have failed due to low water flow? water should keep pex cool and take heat away.
Yes, that’s why they failed. With the length/size of hose I was using I wasn’t able to move enough water through them to keep them cool.
I calculated the expense to build it and then looked on facebook market place and found that I can buy used solar pool heating panels cheaper than I can build them.
That’s true, I looked also but the space I have is a weird size some conventional systems won’t fit and have enough surface area to heat the pool.
Unfortunately, that's not PEX. That's irrigation tubing. Not nearly as resilient as PEX. I suspect this system may fail again due to the temperatures in your system. I hope I'm wrong, because you put a lot of effort into this, and I appreciate the video.
System still works, but I did build a new system with pex, which I don’t like and will probably take apart next spring and change to 3/4 heavy duty rubber hose
@@chrisbuildsitall I appreciate your dedication to this project. I had already decided on at least 3/4" based on this video, and maybe even 1", though I know at a certain point the increased sectional area will hurt heat absorption. Good to know you're considering going to rubber.
Cheers.
Those panels are quite inefficient. I have been using commercial solar panels for 15ish years. You want the water to flow as fast as possible without adding too much drag. The pool pump should be fed into a 2 inch header, where small poly pipes parrallel off that header 10 to 12 feet to another 2 inch header. I use a dozen 4ft x 12ft panels that have 30-50 pipes each, parralleling from one header to anotoher. The solar should not restrict the pool pump too much. If the panels are elevated above the pump, you will also need a vaccume release valve. Should really use one reguardless. It goes at the highest point of the system. Meaning, the solar pannels need to be oriented in a way where the feed ends highest corner is the highest part of the sytsem, and the vacuume valve get placed there. This will allow the pressure to equiilize when the water accelerates down the pipe. I use a valve at the bottom end to restrict the flow just to the point of satisfying the vaccume release valve. Without it, the pipes will heat, vaccuume, and collapse.
Don't know if you can hear yourself speaking, but you seem to be complaining a lot about how hot it gets. If it's so hot why do you need a pool heater? You look like you're in Arizona or somewhere hot in California which tells me that you got 10 months of good pool weather maybe 11. I'm in New Jersey we get 3 months I definitely need a system to get my pool hot. Your weather seems to be fine
I’ve spent three straight summers doodling around with similar solar set ups, and I’ve come to this conclusion. Once the initial warm water inside the tubing is flushed out, you’re only circulating cold water. The only way this setup will be effective is if you have a timer for the pump that allows the pump to run for about 2 minutes, then shut down for a few minutes to allow the water inside the tubes to heat up again. Rinse and repeat. Also, the size of the pool is a big factor. The bigger the pool, the harder it is to heat.
You call that drip line “PEX” but it’s nowhere near as thick. I made the same mistake in using the drip line when I first built my system. It melted within a weeks. Use actual PEX TUBING and vent the enclosure. Water has to flow if the sun is out. I’ve had a system almost identical to yours heating my pool for the past 5 years. I live in the desert with temperatures over 110 at times and my heater is running strong.
Yep yep. New design already in process.
Bro only 7 degree difference. 40 degrees is great 👍
I'm guessing that your third pool heater, like the prior versions, is not going to last very long. The primary issue is the wrong choice of materials. PVC is only rated for 140º F. Though polypropylene has a much higher rating (180º F), it's still not the best choice. CPVC and PEX are both rated for 200º F and would perform far better. Something above 212º F would be preferable, but the costs might be prohibitive.
Heat management is the next major issue with your design(s). You want to get your pool a little warmer, not boil water. Getting the highest output temperature from your solar array is irrelevant to this goal. The most efficient method of accomplishing this goal is to heat a large volume of water slightly above your desired temperature, but you also want to keep the velocity of the water low. So you need more paths that are much shorter. Long coils are very inefficient.
My suggestion would be use 2" CPVC for manifolds on the ends with 1/2" CPVC pipe collectors in between. The collectors should be attached to an aluminum plate, and all of it needs to be painted flat black. Water has to be keep in this system to prevent it from overheating or a solar shade needs to be employed.
The negative pressure, created by the weight of the water in your system trying to drain back into your pool, combined with high temperatures, is what caused your prior designs to fail. The negative pressure problem can be resolved with a check valve on the input and a auto-closing valve on the output.
Just wondering why you chose to use PVC pipe instead of CPVC? You demonstrated why PVC pipe is a bad choice for hot water on your second version. CPVC is designed to be used with hot water. PVC is not.
Mainly because of issues with cpvc. PVC is just easier and cheaper to work with.
It better and cheaper and easier to just install Black plastic pool and cover it with clear plastic wrap. if you want it to last longer, install cheapest clear panels you can find, perspex, Acrylic, or glass. Keep a modest inclination on the mini pool on the roof, maximise surface area that is reliably facing the sun, avoid any shadows evaporation is a consideration too, and run the cool water into low point and let warm water rise to the output siphon. use the smallest pump possible. every watt you use pumping is a watt of heat lost...
The pumping losses using poly tube is ridiculous. the heat loss on poly tube is ridiculous too..
AND really obviously.. USE a pool blanket, you just cant beat it if you have good sun coverage on your pool.. simple cheap easy...
Pool blankets are just as much a waste of time, energy and money
Insulate your hot water pipe
I'm guessing this won't be your final build. Pex tubing is not UV stable. It will get brittle and break in direct sun.
Lmao I don’t think that ladder is safe
Yeah it needs to go to the trash. I dropped an oven on it a while back.
Lol you're choosing to swim in 70° water. That's just nutters to somebody from South Florida. We don't go in the ocean in the winter time because it's 74
But that summertime water of 85 feels like a bathtub... So I admit somewhere in the middle's best,
77°F is still pretty chilly. I mean a hotel pool would be around 82°F at least. Anything under this would be pretty chilly. You shouldnt even swim in a pool under 72° due to hypothermia.
I like my water cold. I use the pool for cold plunges all winter.
If you're trying to build a heater and you're complaint is it gets way too hot. And it flows water through it, that tells me you just need more water.
You should have absolutely no problem cooling down the panel on that roof, with your entire pool.
I don't think that "drip tubing" is anything like actual "Pex". I am seeing 200ft of that stuff you are using at about $24. Home Depot is showing 1/2" of real Pex at about $70 for 200ft. I do not see any temp ratings on the drip hose but it is for very low pressure non-heated water. If you are going to all that work, it might be worth your time to spend a little bit more on real hot water rated rated Pex. They use that stuff in heated floors.
Yes sir- next time
Plastic is doomed if you put it in an enclosed box...ideally stainless steel would be the ultimate solution but yeah, spendy.
PEX home piping was my solution with 3/4 diameter and a high flow rate. It gained my enclosed pool with tight screen 7 degrees in the summer (NE Florida), which got me to high 80s which my wife was good with.
I plumbed from the return and send side of the pump to get the pressure necessary, valve controlled. Make sure your pump timer kicks on at sunrise to avoid high heat gain at the start of the day. And off at sunset. If you arent pumping that tubing will melt down again...
Sacrifice some temp for function...high flow to keep it cool...it will keep the system from melting down.
Again from experience...and $$$ spent...
The other option is some sort of temp controlled venting of the box to maintain a reasonable temp...never tried that though
Next time, you know there will be another one. Lol. Thanks