Pulling at low cadences - I have started to use SPD's this week. I have hered a lot about round pedaling and pulling in advance. And my findings on the first tour after trying and setting up was that it is possible to stay in a higher gear for short sprinting or short climbs and add the second leg pulling to give that extra boost. But it is more difficult (yet) in higher cadences and/or over long periods.
I just switched to clips for MTB. I totally feel the “pull” on the cranks for climbing and extra power. I think my sore legs from muscles I wasn’t using with flats once I switched proved something has changed.
Shimano multi release cleat SH 56 M allows multi release angles. I use this cleat for trail rides. Been using it for years. It is a great cleat for recreation riding. The SH 51 single release is better for racing or road riding. I have shoes set up with both types of these cleats. Been riding since 1984. Started Mountain biking 1990. I ride at least 100-120 days in a 9 month season. So I have some experience riding clipped in.
Pulling up does become ineffective past a certain point of rotation, but clipless does provide more rotational power transfer...GCN did a rotational power measuring test which confirmed power transfer per pedal as high as 270°. One thing that is not considered, that i have found beneficial on my XC riding is pulling in tight spots where my body posture allows me to benefit more from the leg that is in a position to pull, as apposed to the leg that is in a position to push down. This is typically on technical terrain at very low speed.
you will only graduate to clipless pedals once you stop at a traffic light and forget to unclip and fall like a sack of potatoes next to a stopped car :)
@@samuraioodon I’m using shamino sh-xc702 with the carbon plate on the bottom rated as a 9 /12 on their scale. Overall it’s a good balance of cost and performance. I don’t get flex out of these or if I do it’s minimal. I’m an avid recreational rider, not a racer, but I do climb a lot, so far this year over 230000 feet and around 3700 miles and the shoes have been great. I have a pair of cheaper Shamino shoes, more entry level and those definitely have some flex.
I didn't get good at jumps and hops until I went with platforms. Maybe if I rode a road bike I'd consider clip less but just no need for many recreational riders on an mtb. I disagree somewhat about clip less being as safe as a platform, I find I can throw the bike away faster and easier if a jump goes wrong, etc on flats.
Platforms are safer from my experience. I used to crash like once in 2 years (wet road, tight corner, and so on). With clipless, I already crashed 2 times this year while learning to clip/unclip and once more at a stoplight a month later :) Climbing and sprinting are a lot better with clipless pedals. They give me that confidence and stability needed to push hard without worrying that my feet will slip from the pedals. Really helps with pushing the pedals, changing cadence and power on the fly and pedaling in wet conditions because feet do not slip at all.
i think its down to the rider more than anything , i doubt i will ever go clipless i dont even use five tens i use cheap skate shoes with platform pedals and never loose my footing, if your unweighting your feet and moving your body around the bike you wont get bucked of ur pedals and i just dont wana be in the position when bailing and being cliped in or when a jump goes wrong fuck that !
I never thought I will love riding clipless, but now that I got used to it I feel strange riding with normal shoes. I am currently at my sixth bike, my first road bike. Have been riding bikes for 25 years, and until 2 months ago I only used platforms. Well, you are right. It definitely depends on the rider, on you and what you want from your ride. Moreover, from what I see in our discussion you talk about jumping and mountain biking while I am talking about my road biking experience. This might make a difference too ;)
In BMX racing, which is an all out sprint, you are pushing and pulling. This is a huge advantage over flats. There is no way you can compete with a rider of the same skill, riding the same gear size, while using flats. Also, BMX racing has all kinds of obstacles such as doubles, table tops, rhythm moguls etc., and clipless SPD pedals absolutely help you to not lose contact with your pedals while attacking those obstacles at a high rate of speed.
In my experience bike touring through Japan, especially in the big cities with crowded streets and sidewalks, flats are the only way to go. Flats confer the added benefit of only having to pack 1 pair of shoes for the tour.
Yes Percy, I am living in Japan and there is always some "surprise" situation with and elder person. I don't know if i would be able to avoid a tip over in those cases.
Because when you push pedal down with a force of 300nm you may loose about 50-150nm to push your opposite leg up if you dont pull it. Thats it. Free watts from just pulling legs. I dont say about pulling pedals 100% time, im talking about unweightening leg. I talked to a guys, who make a specialized body geometry fit with retul stuff and they said, that there are more than half of their clients loose more than 30-50% power because they dont pull at all.
Not that much if you learn this move pattern. Brain does not control every muscle every time you walk or cycle, instead brain uses a 'muscle pattern'. If you learn this patter very well, then you dont have to think about it any more and you wont need any additional cardio output, because it will be included in your maximum output by default. In fact when you learn how to do this, you will became better and better every time. Eventually you will learn how to make those moves require as minimum effort as possible. But at first it will be harder, it require mental strenth and discipline to learn.
I went clipless recently. Is frustrating, but I couldn't tell the difference. I used my skating shoes and flat pedals to check the position of my feet, installed the cleat acordingly, set the pedals to the minimum tension and went for the first ride, clipping in and out was easy, I just stepped on the pedals as I did on the flats, the motion to unclip is easy to remember. Biggest difference is that now I can relax because there is no need to keep my feets in a fixed position, I am already in place, and I can just keep pedalling over rough terrain instead of taking it easy so my feet ain't throwed off the pedalls
Millions video. Ride with whichever pedals you want. Don't be influenced by videos. Be influenced by what makes you to be able to ride more. What's important is learning to balance your weight on ANY bike, then just ride. Forget FTP, SPD, power meter, RPM, HRM, Cadence and any snobbish acronyms. Only FUN, riding MORE is important.
I wouldn’t recommend Cleats and Clipless pedals if youre going to ride like this 1. clipless pedals demand high technique there are things such as floats 2. Clipless are expensive for the extensive power 3. Not suggested to ignore Cadence rpm and any other because yes this would be good for sub divisional riding however on roads and MTBs and RB this is required to think about
I'd like to know if clipless (we really need another name, clip-in sounds good) is better than flat for me or not, before I spend $$$ GCN's testing says that it doesn't make too much of a difference speed wise, but the effort can be slightly less (except when fully sprinting), the only big thing for clipless is the feeling, that's the conclusion I have so far
SPD does have its difficulties in tough terrain but I think it often provides a bit of stability. While it doesn't improve power output over flats, it does definitely give you a little more momentary sprint power. Everything in your video is pretty spot on actually, it's interesting to see how many people are misinformed.
I'm learning to use spd's now, i find them really useful for when i panic and don't clip out, getting really good at falling sideways, and as for not pulling on the upstroke, i scoop back with my foot but that's from learning on flats.
I prefer eggbeaters to SPDs because they are lighter but still have a reliable action. I even use them on my roadbikes because Look style cleats even with the covers are too ridiculous to walk in.
The trick to round pedaling is pushing your palms forward with 20 to 30 pounds of pressure on your handlebar. You'll fell light as a feather as you pull from 6 o'clock to 9 o'clock while sweeping through your stroke. I've moved to a bigger cog and can maintain the same speed for 20 miles.
@Bruce B I used to be a toe pusher on big, flat pedals. I could grind a big gear, but my form was super choppy. Took me 3+ months to unlearn this bad habbit. I've gone one cassette smaller and I'm faster because I can spin way more efficiently. I had the power, but I was wasting 15% of the output due to bad form.
A minor point: this vid contains a myth about the old toe-cage setup. At least for road use, the old system consisted of a toe cage, a leather strap around the foot, and a metal plate with a slot in it nailed to the sole of the shoe. The slot locked into the vertical edge at the rear of the pedal frame so in fact your feet WERE secured to the pedals and you COULD pull up if you wanted to. In a crash, the leather strap would generally stretch enough that your foot would pop out. The modern cleats are an improvement in almost every way, especially not having that leather strap constantly squeezing your foot!
I do circles with my SPD pedals on both the road and mtn. bikes (Actually I do circles with my caged pedals also). Just doing circles have improved my biking.
really good points and I agree with everything you said. I would just add that you dont need road bike specific, clipless pedals. I use spd mountain bike style pedals on my road bikes and have done for years. I would argue that they work better due to the dual entry, plus you dont have to walk around like a waddling duck when off the bike! I too use flats on my mountain bike, its far better for good technique,
There is round pedaling. You just don't provide much power on the upstroke. But if you don't pedal in circle, the leg on the upstroke will impede the leg on the downstroke. If you have a smooth, round stroke, you'll get a lot more speed than if you're bouncing around.
It is actually best to rest the the keg moving back while the other leg is pushing down. Easiest way to take weight off pedal slightly as the foot goes back. Nobody can do a round style of pedaling at all cadences.
what does he mean, round pedaling isn't a thing? I definitely pull up when I'm clipped in, especially when I think about it, i can feel relief in my quads, and feel my hamstrings start to burn.It makes huge difference at the higher cadences, helping not to bounce on the seat, when using good form, which is pushing down and pulling up.
For sure you are correct. When I started to go longer distances for commuting and travelling by bike instead of car travel, but NOT training, I had poor technique. But, even late in the day when I was tired, too tired to climb up the hill in front of me, I would switch to pulling up instead of pushing down and could just fly up on fresh muscles. Obviously, not good technique, but it worked.
Your channel is great, thanks for being honest about things which work, and especially which do not. Unfortunately there are way too many Chanel’s who are just an extended (and in some cases unpaid🤪) Arms of bike manufactures, who push bad stuff to the market in sake of profit. Thanks for that. Back to this video... Main myth, which you seems to be in as well - that Road pedals “transfer more power” when pedaling. From the physics - the power is power, if shoes are connected to the pedal - it doesn’t matter what connection type is used - energy is transferred. The way how people can pedal, even in higher RPM doesn’t depend on the pedal type. The difference comes to the air dynamics, dirt resistance and the shoes sole - one allows to walk easily when another (road) - doesn’t. If Shimano wouldn’t have a patent on SPD - all would switch as it is easier, much more durable and practical. All these road cleats are just a way to suck money from people’s pockets.
I use mtb pedals on my road bike as I heard that they are easier to get into and out of the shoe you can actually walk around in which is handy as I do a lot of touring and means I can get away with just using my cycling shoes. They seem a little harder wearing to me also as they are made from metal and the road one are plastic. As the mechanism will work with dirt and mud inside of it. Actually, I can't work out what advantages road clipless pedals have over mtb pedals.
It just gives you a larger pedaling platform for hard efforts. That bigger pedal can reduce hot spots as well over the smaller area offered by the mtb pedal. Most people will prefer mtb clipless pedals over flats, especially for touring but road clipless pedals are quite nice to ride in the setting they were intended
It has nothing to do with greater power transfer, as anyone with a smattering of high school physics would understand. Exactly the same power is being transmitted to the pedals with MTB clipless but through a smaller cleat/clip surface area. This could potentially lead to so called "hotspots" i.e. a numbness in a small area of the foot over the cleat, however I have to say that even touring up to 8 hours a day, I've never experienced that. Moreover some MTB clipless pedals have a platform built around them which the shoe can also push against on the down stroke.
Most touring cyclists ride at fairly low wattage at a steady state. So there isn't enough force going through the pedals to create a hot spot or lose power. With a smaller pedaling platform the shoe ends up flexing a greater amount during each pedal stroke than a road setup and therefore power is lost. The platform in the shoe isn't as stiff as the pedal so at some point it's going to flex. That said this really only becomes even theoretically possible at super high wattages, like what you would see in a sprint. There's only going to be a few watts difference between the two but in a race that's decided in inches it might make the difference. At medium wattages such as those seen in professional time trials and parts of pro road races hot spots could be an issue but with highend carbon mtb shoes available this isn't very likely these days. One thing none of us have mentioned so far is aerodynamics. The road to pedal interface is typically a lot cleaner and the shoes are also more streamlined. This won't make any difference to the average Jo, but it might buy a little time for the serious road racer or triathlete.
@mal cross yea I don't understand why they haven't adopted the mtb ones. Work just ad good but if you twist your foot (never happened while riding) it comes out
@@rajgill7576 its the aero and weight difference. Road bikers are anal so a smooth bottomed shoes is lighter and more aerodynamic. Its also because the first cycling shoes just had smooth leather soles and treaded soles never caught on really until MTBs were invented.
I have SPDs on my CX and commuter bikes, the main advantage is the availability of shoes that allow off the bike movement without the awkwardness of road pedal systems. I have 3 bolt road pedals for my road bike (and sometimes put them on my CX Cannondale). These road pedals allow for better power transfer with each pedal stroke....helping performance....hey at 60 I am not racing that much but the difference between the clipless and the toe-straps of my Criterium days is like day and night. Another benefit of clipless pedals IMHO is injury prevention. Not crash type injuries, but the nagging foot/ankle/knee injuries that come from inefficient or incorrect pedalling. I've found that when I have my shoes/cleats/pedals dialled in I can maintain consistent pedaling technique. When I'm cranking efficiently, the only things sore at the end of a ride are my legs. If anything else hurts bad...I need to address set up (back, feet, knees, wombat placement). Platforms are great for lots of things I have no clue on how to do...technical mountain biking, downhill, etc. But even for errands and commuting dual purpose pedals (platform and SPD) allows the choice of clipping in.. Just my 2 cents. YMMV
I was very sceptical about clip less pedals because I felt it would take the joy out of riding considering I would need to always be mindful of unclipping. One lesson I have learned, though, is to ensure that the cleats and the pedals are from the same manufacturer. I did a mixed and matched and my foot remained in the pedal even though I tried to unclip. I love the clip less now but I still don't trust them in the same way I trusted the whole style pedals. One noticeable advantage for me is that my feet kept steady on the clip less pedals especially during wet rides. I often do 60-100k rides and on a few occasions I had numbness from the pedals. I adjusted the position of cleats and it's much better now on long rides. Sorry I didn't intend to write a book, but so what?
I think to have a fluid pedalstroke you slightly take the weight off of the upstroke in such a manor that you still can relax (relatively) the upstroke for blood circulation and don't go anaerobic. Actualy like in speedskating. So, if done thoughtfully, you can also cycle well with flat-pedals. (-95 rpm).
I don't understand why people would think clipless is dangerous when I went clipless on my road bike years ago I was a bit concerned about a crash or tipping the bike over while on it, but after five minutes of practice with clips it felt completely normal to me, I always clip first time and no need to look down, also no issues with unclipping when the bike comes to a stop, I just get one foot out before I come to a complete stop
Guess you've never had to do an emergency stop if you always have time to preemptively unclip. Unfortunately there's not always time to think especially when idiots in cars are mixed in
For me, its abouy practicality for MY riding style. I commute, do overnight packed tours, and light mountain biking on my 3 bikes (mountain, cross, and road bikes). I live in the desert and have had a couple times where I broke down with no other option but to walk, so riding in running shoes is my preference. I also use the bikes to get to trail heads and I walk around town a lot as well. Personally, you could tell me I would have a 25% increase in efficiency and I would still ride flats. I can lend my bikes to others, ride and walk long distances, and adjust my footing occasionally. If I only rode around town and had a wife that could pick me up in emergencies, I would probably put some on my road bike, but until then, platforms for me.
my SPD cleat shoes are about as easy to walk in as my sneakers. They are a little stiffer, but not to any great extent. (they are less stiff than my dress shoes for work, which I am able to wear aand walk in for 12-16 hours at a pop!)
I would disagree with your 3rd myth as in a crash it isnt as always so easy to unclip, I've ridden clueless for a few years and I've returned to flats as I always struggle when in a crash situation to get out of the pedals my friends also have the same experience which I had
my first week i went to mtb clip-less. i hit a dark green painted mile marker, and did a flip. bike went over my head because i stayed clipped in.. so yah at first you forget to unclip when accident occurs.
Senpai Daddy I use to race road and track for several years then moved to downhill and mtb. I can see why some people struggle to unclip when they haven't been use to them but now I find its second nature and I've never been in a crash and been stuck to the bike
i know what your saying and some people can unclip without no problems but i found it rather hard and some occasion impossible to unclip meaning i couldn't ditch my bike at all, im not the most perfect rider in the world and find i crash alot cus i decide to stupid stuff with my friends and being clipped in when doing stupid stuff made it hard for me to use clips, im not saying clips are bad and i've used them while racing for that slight efficiency when pedeling but i still prefer flats and always recommend flats not clips
Most crashes will unclip automatically but it's true that it might not unclip if your bike goes over your head. Happened to me while practicing wheelie as I leaned backwards. I felt on my backbone, nothing I could do.
I never understood why pedals that clips in are called clipless pedals .... i'm so confused right now I work in a bike shop in montreal ( francophone area ) and we just call them clip pedals (pédales à clip), makes so much more sense ...
Sound stupid, but, pedals with clips, are those pedals with toe clips, that go over your toes and usually have straps on too. The clipless have no straps and no toe clips, they are replaced with the clips for the shoes.
Clippless being more dangerous in a crash, is not a myth. I've witnessed numerous bike wrecks where the rider had at least 1 foot still clipped in. I've witnessed numerous wrecks where the rider tried to bail, after failing to trick a jump... & could not clip out quick enough. There's a reason why we use platforms.
Clipless pedals, bar ends, fat tires and dual suspension were all once considered "essential" for the serious mountain biker. Now, hit the trail on any Saturday and you'll find rigid "adventure" bikes with platform pedals and drop bars keeping up with and in many cases outperforming the most sophisticated mountain bikes. I started mountain biking back in 1987 with a rigid frame and platform pedals...it appears we're right back where we started. Ride the system that works for you!
I have a mtb bike with bar ends, toeclips and straps and I pass most people I come across on uphill climbs and flats with all the new bikes. The only thing the platform bikers with more downhill oriented bikes excel at is going gonzo fast on downhills. Bar ends are great for changing hand positions. The newer mtbs have super wide bars and makes bar ends less easy and practical. As far as spd style mtb, they are slightly more efficient as the metal to metal contact transmits more power than a rubber sole on a platform or cage pedal. I notice about a one gear difference, so not major.
No they don't unclip always easily. If it's true that falling on low speed only happens at first, when you just had got them. Then I have just got them already about 3 and half years. When I unclip the right foot, but for some reason, that I don't understand by my self, start to lean to left after stopping,. There's nothing I can do to save it. I can't unclip the left foot anymore. It's like it's stuck on pedal, no mater how desperately I try to twist my ankle it won't twist enough, or it really feel like it's stuck. I always hit the floor with my left knee, when this happens.
Yes, well I fall because I'm stupid.. and also bike fit isn't always good enough.. sometime I get it worse when trying to improve it.. I have 2 recordings from handlebar camera. First one is really just my stupidity. I should not have turned into snow there like that.. Maybe it would all have been fine, but after already in snow, I got worried that there might be something sharp under snow and turned handlebar back a little and the bike was washed away under me on wet paint that was waiting there under snow.. other case, the kid decided to change his curse to front of me after his dad had shouted to him already second time "Come away from there! Are you listening!" Rebellious kid decided to go further away, from his yelling dad. So.. anyways. I fell, because I was stupid.. not uncliping correct leg.. czcams.com/video/nAT3vh9u28I/video.html
Make sure that the bolts on the bottom of the shoe are not loose. If they get loose, it can prevent you from getting out as the cleat might be moving with the pedal instead of sticking with the shoe. That is very dangerous. Also, if you are using the Shimano SPDs, make sure you have the model 56 multi-release cleats and also adjust the spring tension on the pedal to minimum. If one of your pedals is still not releasing properly, have it looked at or replaced.
Is it true that brand new cleapless pedals are a bit tough to unclip than those already been used for a while? You know becauze of the loosening of the spring?
gotta say that's the truth when you crash you just kinda end up out of the pedals before you even know it. be it for the famous 0 mph falls if you have a brain fart when first learning
Climbing is the first thing that improved a lot when I snitched to a clipless pedals. I was riding up hill 35-40% high with 18-19 km/h max speed now I can ride uphill with 25-30 km/h speed. On a long distances it saves a lot of time. And also the acceleration improved a lot, I can reach the “comfortable top speed” in just few seconds, even if there’s a wind blocking the way.
That feat may be an overstatement, well done if you are anywhere near for a short while. As I understand the steepest road in the world is 35 %, and ,for example, the gradients of the steepest roads on the mountainstages in Tour de France is below 20 %.
I have used Spd pedals on both mtb and road bike for years. One advantage of spds is that they allow some lateral movement of the forefoot, I don't mean float - but movement from left to right. This is very useful if you have a hip injury as road pedals fix the forefoot flat to the pedal and force the hip joint to move in one plane instead of allowing abduction and adduction of the femur during the pedal stroke. I have done 200km+ road rides on spds 'hotspots' are a myth with modern carbon soled shoes.
I ride flats, but what I do is sweep the pedal back to about a 7 o' clock position so as to have the opposite pedal in a better position for the down stroke. It takes some concentration at first but it helps me on the climbs. I also go light on that pedal after the sweep back so I wouldn't be working against it.
When I use round pedaling with clipless pedals I get lots more power. Even at 80 to 90 RMPs. I will say it takes a degree of concentration to round pedal at high RPM but it works well. I just concentrate on the back, up, and forward pedaling. The down pedaling comes naturally.
SPD pedals for my cyclocross and road bikes. Flat pedals for my MTB. Why? I tend to bail quickly over fails on sketchy terrain or a bad jump. Also, it does instill confidence on trails. I can also move my foot position as I like.
IDK man, when I ride flat pedals I don't feel confident in MTB at all... the feet move around in bumpy terrain and I can't control it. But I heard it's all about the habbits. Sam Hill rides flats up to date, AFAIK. One needs to always put some weight on the pedals when riding flats, to prevent the feet from moving around and changing position. In clipless it's not necessary, so I just forgot how to do it after 10 years of riding clipless 95% of the time
+sickbiker I ride clipped in for everything, even bike polo. Once you get used to it, the confidence you get from it, feeling like a part of the bike- is what it's all about... newbies- don't be afraid... practice in a hallway, clip in and out with both feet at least 20 times until you can do it without looking, then you are ready to hit the road or trails. Don't forget to unclip at least one foot before stopping, and don't be discouraged if you do and have a low-speed fall, it happens to everyone at least once, and after a while you will laugh when you remember it...
1. I used flat pedals for first time and knew to jump and when I switched on spd it was easier to jump higher than with flat pedals but now i do not know to jump with flap pedals 2.on high uphill when i go very (3-5km/h)slow it is important to pull othervise will stop when pedals come on 12/06 position 3. it is danger in any situation if you do not know how to relese it. So there is no any myth every is true
I noticed a major difference in my wattage power increase, when I got my first set of exstastar road pedals!! Then I bought a $160 pair of spd road pedals, with a carbon sull underneath the cleats of my $150 pair of Pearl izumi road shoes. I then noticed even more of a greater power output in wattage, do to the carbon, which makes the sulls stiffer! However, the down sides to having carbon sulls is, not only can they crack, when you get involved in a wreck but, it also, oftenly & usually results in having less foot movement, when it comes to comfort. So, when it comes down to it, unless you're doing a short race &/or where every marginal gain counts, then you'd be better off with just buying shoes with plastic sulls so, you won't cut off any blood serculation.
Why I like clipless on a road bike: When riding over a pothole with the rear tire, the bike wants to fling your ass over the handlebar. You can only hope to land back on the shoes before landing of your nuts. Also: bunny hopping proved useful.
Wow, u really must have bad nut sag. I literally, in the history of my entire cycling activities, have never given any thought to hurting myself in the nuts. You see. Normally the nuts dont even touch the saddle. Your butt does... Your nuts stay safely between your thighs, just barely being touched by the long and narrow portion of the saddle. Even if u miss your feet, your ass and your thighs should make contact before ur nuts do.
Well I use both on my Enduro MTB and gravel bike. I do some crazy things on my gravel bike and some times I just need those flats so I don’t have to think what so ever about unclipping and just let the bike fall from my feet. And a lot of times when I try a new trail on my MTB or even try a hole new major part I will do it on flats because there is just a level of comfortable I have with the flats I am still trying to get with my clipless
I didn't read all comments so maybe it was covered. One benefit I've noticed from running clipless (spd) is on steep loose climbs I am better able to keep consistent power at the wheel rather than a pulsed power and it seems this results in improved traction and momentum on these climbs. I did break my ankle resulting from a crash in spd's and carry the hardware with me today so I still go flats in new terrain and if I know there will be chunky or loose downhill but much prefer the clipless on XC style rides.
Speak for yourself on the "Round pedaling". Being a fairly successful XC racer I have adapted the toe scoop technique which consists of a push, slide back, and scoop pull all through the pedal stroke.
Glad it works for you to be fairly successful. Two second google search provides more context: burnhamcoaching.com/myth-of-pedaling-circles/ Also I didn't see you or SickBiker on here: www.uci.ch/mountain-bike/ranking/ so...
I use spd's on a fixed gear and they work fine, getting out is easy and I can walk comfortably. I just can't get my head around what he's saying about round pedaling, trust me, if you ride fixed you will pedal in a circle. The force of the upstroke will knock you out of the saddle if you can't at the very least keep neutral force applied to the crank in all directions.
Still don't get why its called clipless instead of clip-in. Anyway... i just want to know what the advantages are for running road pedals instead of spd on a road bike, because i use the same shoes on both my XC bike and Road bike. No problem keeping up with the roadies.
they're called clipless because its in reference to the old toe-cages that were used in the past. the toe-cages were called clips. and so since these pedals do not have a toe-cage/clip, its called clipless. and usually the difference from what I've seen/heard/experienced, is that the road pedals typically just have a larger platform. I suppose for better transfer. bigger of an issue for top athletes maybe. but I think for us mere mortals, spd is just fine. I roll with spd too on my road bike, as with many of my friends. have never heard of any complaints either. worlds more comfortable to walk around in spd shoes anyway. :D
When I first bought Shimano Pd-m520 clipless pedals about a year ago, I tried them in the shop and fell over. From new the pedals are set at the middle position , so I said lets adjust them them to minimum, but they said no, it's too sloppy. So I eventually braved it home, but over next two days I fell off 5 times as I could not simply unclip fast enough. The guys at the bike shop said it was about technique, so I persevered, but in the end I adjusted them to minimum, and then I was fine. Eventually, I changed the cleats to the easier beginner type, SH56, which were better still as they felt they had more float. I don't think I'll ever use the SH51's again as I don't like the way I feel locked in by them. I used toe clip pedals for years you see, so I'm used to a lot of free movement.
Fr. The 51s are like a death trap lol. They came w a pair of my cycling shoes but I've always used 56s. Never even took the 51s off my indoor training shoes.
Those guys at the shop don't know a thing. They were giving advice coming out of their asses. You were right to do the minimum adjustment and you should have insisted. Good luck!
@@eric97402 Wuss. When I started mountain biking, there were no clipless mountain bike pedals. I used road cleats with double leather straps that I absolutely could not get out of without reaching down and swiping the straps open. It made me an excellent bike handler. Mind you, I was riding hardcore backcountry in Alaska. I once went off the side off a trail and did a complete flip at 25-30 mph and dropped 20 feet, since I couldn’t get out of my pedals; I was very lucky some willow trees caught me. No damage. P.S., you young whippersnappers get off my lawn! 😁
I got tired of replacing cycling shoes as I'm an over-pronator so all of my shoes start running over within a months time & typically are so bad I should replace them after 3 months. That get's really painful & expensive when you are talking cycling shoes. Plus I could never really keep foot pain from rearing it's ugly head sooner or later, it caused me to cut short many a ride. Tried many different insoles & 3 different types of pedal systems & 2 different shoe brands. I stuck with it anyway for several years enduring the pain & going thru numerous pairs of expensive cycling shoes, but I eventually gave up & said this is stupid..I'm not racing, I'm just riding to get & stay fit. I went to platforms on all of my bikes & have not looked back. No more foot pain & they make some good options for platform riders these days. I'm currently riding with a pair of Teva Links & love it.
Sounds like you needed a custom fitted orthotic. All pro riders use these now. They are expensive but it sounds like you should have been assessed by a podiatrist. The orthotic will hopefully correct your pronation and be a good fix for your "hot foot" (metatarsalgia). Orthodics are made today to suit cycle shoes whereas in the past they only suited running shoes. A cheap way is to buy orthotics from a discount chemist. Try this first before going the expensive way. I remove the inner of the cycle shoe and get a perfect fit. I must admit after 50 years cycling I mainly use flat running shoes like skate board shoes always with orthotics on flat pedals. When I was younger I often used running shoes with orthotics and rubber pedals. I toured all over Australia using this set up. I would never ride on roads with heavy traffic with clipless pedals. Its extremely important to be able to very quickly step down. Ive done a lot of touring and one of the surprises is the number of serious riders who use sandals with cage or flat pedals. Often it solves the problem of wide feet without buying the extremely expensive wide cycle shoes. Also sandals are a lot cooler in the heat. I thought it sounded stupid at first but I have no trouble pedalling up the road in thongs (flip flops). The best cycle shoes Ive had for flat pedals is the "Five Ten" brand. Bit expensive from CRC. The ones I got had the same inner sole size as my running shoes. The orthodics I use are the "Orthoheel" by Sholl from a local Discount Chemist. Ive recommended these to many people offering to buy them back. No-one has.
I want to go back to safer platform pedals, but I have already spent so much money for clipless pedals.. Went to clipless years ago because I thought, that I can learn to bunny hop and will have better power output. First shoes were awful, causing tremendous pain. It was painful after only half hour ride, then the pain slowly dissapeared, but later when I got off the bike and to home it was tremendous.. endured it because had spend money.. Bought new special inner soles.. still no good, then duck tapped pieces of packaging foam under the inner soles to right spots.. at middle to lift third and forth toe up that they would not pinch the nerve.. Got it almost perfect. Bought also winter cycling shoes for warmth, because believed, that will benefit from their better power output in snow.. It was so scary to ride on icy roads when clipped in.. Could not relax the upper body and shoulders which made it even more dangerous. Well at least had studded tires. Anyways after 2 years I got pretty confident, was not uncliping even when riding slow speed at city on shared pedestrians and bicycle roads.. All was fine, until one day I had to break suddenly to avoid a collision with a kid on kickbike. I coild not unclip the left foot.. again. It was the fault of kids dad who was yelling: "Bicycle is coming, come away from there", "Are you listening? Come away!" Well obviously a kid would go further away from a person who yell to him and this case he turned to front of me.. It went well, I was only one who got hurt.. broke the knee. Okay I thought maybe it's the fault of pedals that could not unclip left foot. I noticed it sometime get stuck. Got new pedals. But after a while also on new pedals the left feet was sometime not uncliping well. I guess the fault is on my feet.. I have sprained it several times in past.. Anyways after 2 months when I already had weak new skin on the knee. I fell again.. I was stupid, got bored of riding on clean road and wanted to try to go to snow.. slow speed, but, there was road paint under heavy wet snow.. and fell, and again to left side.. The exact same spot against asphalt.. Of course the foot did unclip from pedal.. Sick biker is correct. It always unclip in crash, but it's usually too late.. Now bought new sh53 cleats. I think I can use those with my old m530 pedals with weak spring tension. I would not dare to use them with m520, because they are too narrow.. Foot may unclip and slip off of the pedal to side.
through caution to the wind and sell the clipless setup secondhand. Whats the point of trying to enjoy it go and buy some nice flats and have fun riding once again
Hardi Really the fault of the crash with the small kid was yours. reason being that when on a bike and riding past walkers, you should really slow right down to almost walking pace yourself. You don't try to pass walkers either from the back or front at any kind of pace. What I do is if I'm riding at pace, I slow down a fair bit before the walker so they are comfortable with my pace and not anxious. I slow right down to almost their pace when I get to them, and pass slowly. It's unfair on the walkers to pass them at any kind of pace, dangerous for both them and you. But even if it's not dangerous, it's a courtesy to the walkers and it's not really fair to pass walkers that fast, unless you have a lot of room to pass then at distance. Particularly where they are young kids like in your situation, it's even more important then to slow right down and don't make it a dodgy dodging game where parents are panicking for their kids because a fast metal machine is coming towards them and they have no clue of your skill level or what their kid is going to do. Any situation with a walker where you're passing close, you go almost as slow as them. When coming from behind, I've been walking, not on a bike path but on a walking path, and decided to cross the road. So I turn on the path to walk to the road, then collide with a speeding bike rider I hadn't heard coming behind me. That bike rider intending to pass me close and at pace. Dangerous and not right to do on a walking path. Even on a shared path you shouldn't pass fast and close. Only past fast if you have a lot of room and even if the walking turns sideways you won't collide and have time to swerve. And with kids, it's stupid to pass at pace from behind even if you've got room, kids go everywhere at any time.
you should read the manual for the shimano spd on "General Safety Information first bullet" *SPD-SL Pedals are designed so that you release them only when you intend to release. They are not designed to release automatically at times such as when falling off the bicycle.*
He was saying it was second nature, aka a muscle memory thing, not that the pedal would do it it itself. in other words you would take the action to unclip as a reflex action without thinking about it.
They have two types, the multi release can be set to realease easily. I had a moment where i fell backwards off bike on steep climb and it released when i pulled up and out in midair and saved a bad fall.I use the single release when i ride on the road because iv pull out of the multis trying to put down too much power.
they release when foot angle allows for the release. That is why they are spring tensioned and that is why clipless pedals were invented. With toe clips, straps and cleats, a tightened down strap did not release foot in a crash.
Note the key difference between MTB and road large chain rings to complement the cleats clearly shown in video. MTB large chain rings have square profile but road large chain rings have razor-sharp shark's tooth profile just like my bicycle. The reason you file the teeth to shark's teeth for road is if you're dropping back you can elbow the competition off & get them in the back with the chain ring. Sick biker has clearly used this sophisticated technique.
I use flat only. I don't see the point of using cleat. Also, using cleat means my feet is stuck to one position. I like to have the freedom to move my feet around on the pedal as I am not a robot/machine, I am a human - my joints are flexible.
hahahhahah "stuck to one postition", that's exactly why I use spd. The main value in clipless is that your feet are always in the best position for pedaling efficiently and bike control, you never have to think about it or adjust your feet. No matter how wrecked and/or unfocused you are it just works all day every day, and if you need to stretch out the feet a bit it is super easy to unclip->clip back in (to that perfect position every time).
without cleat, i can stretch my feet too. So stretching is not the question here. My question is, you are saying your cleat can actually move up/down, left/right 5 mm, in all direction, or turning clockwise/anticlockwise for 1~3 degree, WHILE cycling ?
I tried clipless on and off for a year on my road bike. The flaws far outweigh any benefits. I stuck with a good quality flat. Clipless removed all the joy out of riding.
After a month of riding clipless, I had a totally unexpected flight over the bars. I stood on the ground in front of my bike (the speed wasn't high) and then I realized I had been clipped in. 10 years and A LOT of crashes later, I'm still riding clipless and never had problems because of it.
mosiowaty No worries!😂 I read it 3-4 times like, hang on.. Was he having some sort of OOB experience or something? Haha and btw, same here about having no problems. I've just started riding clipless this past week, and after purposely putting myself in situations where I'm gonna need my feet.. I soon realised you tend to naturally un-clip yourself anyway. It was well worth making the switch, I don't think I'll be using flats again👍🏻
Just had another "crash" on Friday (ice on tarmac), sliding on the road and looking at my bike sliding further and further away from me... Wait, when did I clip out? Cheers and good luck with clipless :D
What do you think about combined SPD/flat? E.g Funn Mamba, Shimano pd-eh500. I like their extra option, plus for downhill sections could transition to the flat side
The theory behind wider pedal platforms is that you're able to increase your wattage do to the pedal being closer to the crank, which not only increases aerodynamics but it's also like, comparing the two pedals to your hand grip on a waterbottle or other objects. If you just grip it with your fingers rather than using your entire hand then you won't have 100% grip on that object. Make sense?
For wider road pedals, more area of the bottom of your feet has more contact on the pedal, which means more force, tork, more wattage power increase. This can also help you be faster, by increasing your cadence, which can also allow you to eccellorate quicker, when in a moments notice, like in a sprint, where it's most effective.
in practice _every_ pro rider uses clipless pedals on road bikes. Guess why. It hasn't been mentioned yet that clipless pedals also provide a perfect and slip-free position for the shoe on top of the pedal that is adjustable by the rider's preferences. Your shoe will always be in the exact same position when you ride which is the biggest advantage in my opinion.
Clipless pedals are more sophisticated in terms of having the shoe well mounted on the right position coaxial with the knee cup and require a professional bike fit with all what implies . Flat pedals are easy to use, no big deal.
I got rear-ended by a car on my commute last week. The bike was pushed forward and I went up onto the hood of the car. I did not see the car coming, so unclipping would not have been an option. I wonder if my legs would have gotten screwed up if I had been clipped in. With flats, I just got some road rash and a jammed finger. No twisted ankles or knees.
I bounced 50 feet along asphalt at 45 kph on my left side sitting on the bike after a power boat trailer hit me in the back at 55 kph. No leg problems at all just lower back ache for 12 months. So, no concerns for you about twisted ankles or knees.
Had a few collisions over many years commuting with clipless . Every time they released themselves without me having to think about it, a bit like ski bindings do. Not really a surprise as Look, a ski binding manufacturer, developed the first successful clipless pedals.
I rode my gravel bike for 21 miles a couple weeks ago in a benefit ride. I'm used to using straps from the 80s, but just this past year got back into cycling. Using clipless. 21 miles was my longest distance so far. Same as with the straps, my toes went numb. How can I prevent this from happening?
I know what you're trying to say about round pedaling, but it depends on who you are. Many more advanced cyclists like me and other pros pull round 80% of the time or more, at all cadence, 50rpm to 250rpm.
I have used clipless on road and cyclocross bikes, but I am am going to start with flat pedals with a mountain bike. I USUALLY cannot get out of my pedals in a difficult technical section with my cross bike or when I am riding up a steep hill-thus I lose momentum, come to a stop and fall. And no its not that the settings are too tight or new. These are older pedals I have used for years. I think it is I am so focused on pedaling up that steep hill or thick mud that by the time I am almost stopped I can't get out. Often/usually I am still clipped in after my fall.
Van H Savell Jr I was just out on Saturday and I live in Az so out trails are mostly loose dirt and sand and rocks. I have never used Clip less but as a new mountain biker I'm glad I can throw my foot down when the like is about to washout from under me. I would have crashes a few time if I was clipped in. once I get more used to my bike and riding I might try clipless.
"No such thing as round pedalling.". That ain't true bro. By nature of the mechanical structure of the crankset you have no choice but to pedal in a circle (round). I would agree that the pulling up at the bottom of the stroke is undesirable because it's a wasted use of energy. Instead, one should sweep through the base of the stroke, as if sweeping mud of the foot, to ensure a more efficient circular motion.
I only ride fixed with clipless pedals SPD and Look and I pull up, pull back, push forward and push down even in high cadences of well above 100. not all at the same time but I like to make use of all my muscles and depending on let’s say momentarily riding style I push/pull in all kinds of different ways. So it’s a myth that not pulling at high cadences is a myth
Sadly you aren't really showing that there's a performance increase. You're anecdotal experience and preference to pull up doesn't prove that there's any increase in output. The few studies done have shown almost no benefit. If you ride a fixed gear you aren't interested in wattage output of your legs as you would benefit way more with a couple gear ratios than clipless pedals. Notice how no car has been single speed for almost a century. Gear ratios give your engine the ability to work in the perfect range that makes use of the torque the engine can make. Even tractors have multiple gears because there's no perfect single gear for all situation.
0 0 for me it’s proof enough that I ride way faster with my technique than when I use platformers only. I can proof it with my Garmin data. I am also very interested in Power data. (What is it that freewheel cyclists always think that their riding style is the only right one? It’s just plain wrong) It helps my crit training even though Watt data on longer rides is total BS on fixed since they are optimized for freewheel bikes and record strange values when you don’t output any power but have cadence or when you backpedal to slow down. Also please don’t compare a car engine to the human body. That’s different stuff. And the main reason I got into fixed is that at some point I rarely shifted and later didn’t shift at all. Not consciously but it just happened. I don’t do long alpine rides where I need special gears anyway. I can tell you that I Output enough power on my fixed gear bike to ride way faster than I ever did on any road bike. So it’s the right way to travel for me. And to come back to those studies. As you have said yourself, there aren’t enough studies so there have to be more.
EVERYONE thinks this. Not a single test has shown enough pulling up to happen enough to matter,but people tend to think they are doing it enough to matter.
brad sanders there are many tests out there, just google search, the reason most professional bikers use clipless pedals, they are more efficient. If you ride very technical 1 by stuff, I’d personally still use flats for safety but on road or gravel or low tech stuff there’s definitely a technical edge. I’ve personally seen almost a two mph increase on my Garmin with the same bike on the same rides. I’ve also seen my watts used go down 6-9 watts on top of being faster. Being attached to your pedal helps you have a better pedal stroke and you are not worrying about staying on your pedals at high cadences. So you can use an easier gear with higher cadence using less watts and gaining speed.
Flats everytime for me, but then I am a serious touring cyclist and MTB enthudiast. I ride alone and don't race so keeping up with the lycra nappies in front of me is not an issue.
smh at the poor people in the comments that have been hurt because they were clipped in. Stop the madness... have FUN on your bike, is everybody sponsored pros racing?
They were probably hurt because their pedals or cleats weren't adjusted properly. I think clipless is safer in many ways. Now my feet don't come off the pedals unless I want them to. I am not "stuck" to my bike though.
Yes, of course you need adequate pedals on the bike. You will perhaps feel less tightly connected than with SPD-SL (road-specific pedals), but I doubt that there is a measurable difference in terms of power output. Shimano sells one-sided SPD pedals that are nearly as light as their SPD-SL pedals and look good on a road bike.
I personally don't like having my feet strapped on to my pedals. I ride mtb so it isn't necessary. I also like to wheelie and manual so i shift my feet forwards and backwards on the pedals to keep balanced. Also have you ever tried clipping back in whilst your front wheel is 3-4 foot in the air. It's not as easy as just placing your feet onto platforms
I like my clipless since my feet stay always in correct postion on hard terrain. With flats I find my feet swim around on the pedal and have to adjust positioning which hinders pedaling. Even when about to face plant I can send my foot straight forward off the clipless pedal without a thought. Takes practise though...
I'm using the same MTB pedals... on my ROAD bike ! That's also a myth that you need to use specific road bike pedals ;-)
Pulling at low cadences - I have started to use SPD's this week. I have hered a lot about round pedaling and pulling in advance. And my findings on the first tour after trying and setting up was that it is possible to stay in a higher gear for short sprinting or short climbs and add the second leg pulling to give that extra boost. But it is more difficult (yet) in higher cadences and/or over long periods.
I just switched to clips for MTB. I totally feel the “pull” on the cranks for climbing and extra power. I think my sore legs from muscles I wasn’t using with flats once I switched proved something has changed.
Shimano multi release cleat SH 56 M allows multi release angles. I use this cleat for trail rides. Been using it for years. It is a great cleat for recreation riding. The SH 51 single release is better for racing or road riding. I have shoes set up with both types of these cleats. Been riding since 1984. Started Mountain biking 1990. I ride at least 100-120 days in a 9 month season. So I have some experience riding clipped in.
P.S Unfortunately I've been hit by 4 cars, but that means I can tell you that you clip out just fine when you fall off your bike...
I'm using flat pedals on road bike. It saved me few times, because I was able to put my foot down quickly, without thinking about it.
Once you get used to SPDs, you can get out of them just as quickly. Just flick your feet sideways and you’re out. It becomes second nature.
Nice video, but actually I felt easier to do round pedaling with my clipless
Pulling up does become ineffective past a certain point of rotation, but clipless does provide more rotational power transfer...GCN did a rotational power measuring test which confirmed power transfer per pedal as high as 270°.
One thing that is not considered, that i have found beneficial on my XC riding is pulling in tight spots where my body posture allows me to benefit more from the leg that is in a position to pull, as apposed to the leg that is in a position to push down. This is typically on technical terrain at very low speed.
Rode clipless pedals the first time tonight on my road bike and I love it. Now I need them on my hybrid!
you will only graduate to clipless pedals once you stop at a traffic light and forget to unclip and fall like a sack of potatoes next to a stopped car :)
I use spd on my road bikes and mtb, plus the shoes are ok to walk in. No difference in power or performance between look style and spd
What shoes do you use? I’m also using spd. I feel flex when riding out of saddle casually. Not much platform like spd sl pedals. Can you suggest?
@@samuraioodon I’m using shamino sh-xc702 with the carbon plate on the bottom rated as a 9 /12 on their scale. Overall it’s a good balance of cost and performance. I don’t get flex out of these or if I do it’s minimal. I’m an avid recreational rider, not a racer, but I do climb a lot, so far this year over 230000 feet and around 3700 miles and the shoes have been great. I have a pair of cheaper Shamino shoes, more entry level and those definitely have some flex.
I didn't get good at jumps and hops until I went with platforms. Maybe if I rode a road bike I'd consider clip less but just no need for many recreational riders on an mtb. I disagree somewhat about clip less being as safe as a platform, I find I can throw the bike away faster and easier if a jump goes wrong, etc on flats.
Platforms are safer from my experience. I used to crash like once in 2 years (wet road, tight corner, and so on). With clipless, I already crashed 2 times this year while learning to clip/unclip and once more at a stoplight a month later :)
Climbing and sprinting are a lot better with clipless pedals. They give me that confidence and stability needed to push hard without worrying that my feet will slip from the pedals. Really helps with pushing the pedals, changing cadence and power on the fly and pedaling in wet conditions because feet do not slip at all.
Clipless are safer for sure ! Your feet are stick with whole bike so you are able to control bike in really high speeds at bumpy terrain.
i think its down to the rider more than anything , i doubt i will ever go clipless i dont even use five tens i use cheap skate shoes with platform pedals and never loose my footing, if your unweighting your feet and moving your body around the bike you wont get bucked of ur pedals and i just dont wana be in the position when bailing and being cliped in or when a jump goes wrong fuck that !
I never thought I will love riding clipless, but now that I got used to it I feel strange riding with normal shoes. I am currently at my sixth bike, my first road bike. Have been riding bikes for 25 years, and until 2 months ago I only used platforms.
Well, you are right. It definitely depends on the rider, on you and what you want from your ride.
Moreover, from what I see in our discussion you talk about jumping and mountain biking while I am talking about my road biking experience. This might make a difference too ;)
You have the cleanest chain I've ever seen in my life
And the dirtiest shoes...
@@the-pezinator hahahaha
Probably chain wax. Works great and keeps the chain clean.
In BMX racing, which is an all out sprint, you are pushing and pulling. This is a huge advantage over flats.
There is no way you can compete with a rider of the same skill, riding the same gear size, while using flats.
Also, BMX racing has all kinds of obstacles such as doubles, table tops, rhythm moguls etc., and clipless SPD pedals absolutely help you to not lose contact with your pedals while attacking those obstacles at a high rate of speed.
In my experience bike touring through Japan, especially in the big cities with crowded streets and sidewalks, flats are the only way to go. Flats confer the added benefit of only having to pack 1 pair of shoes for the tour.
Yes Percy, I am living in Japan and there is always some "surprise" situation with and elder person. I don't know if i would be able to avoid a tip over in those cases.
Honestly i dont 100% agree about pulling. You can pull your leg up for sure.
You CAN, but noone does in a steady state effort. Besides that, why would you want to?
Because when you push pedal down with a force of 300nm you may loose about 50-150nm to push your opposite leg up if you dont pull it. Thats it. Free watts from just pulling legs. I dont say about pulling pedals 100% time, im talking about unweightening leg.
I talked to a guys, who make a specialized body geometry fit with retul stuff and they said, that there are more than half of their clients loose more than 30-50% power because they dont pull at all.
Not that much if you learn this move pattern. Brain does not control every muscle every time you walk or cycle, instead brain uses a 'muscle pattern'. If you learn this patter very well, then you dont have to think about it any more and you wont need any additional cardio output, because it will be included in your maximum output by default.
In fact when you learn how to do this, you will became better and better every time. Eventually you will learn how to make those moves require as minimum effort as possible.
But at first it will be harder, it require mental strenth and discipline to learn.
I went clipless recently. Is frustrating, but I couldn't tell the difference. I used my skating shoes and flat pedals to check the position of my feet, installed the cleat acordingly, set the pedals to the minimum tension and went for the first ride, clipping in and out was easy, I just stepped on the pedals as I did on the flats, the motion to unclip is easy to remember. Biggest difference is that now I can relax because there is no need to keep my feets in a fixed position, I am already in place, and I can just keep pedalling over rough terrain instead of taking it easy so my feet ain't throwed off the pedalls
The problem comes when you need to stop unexpectedly. You WILL forget at some point and tip over.
Millions video. Ride with whichever pedals you want. Don't be influenced by videos. Be influenced by what makes you to be able to ride more. What's important is learning to balance your weight on ANY bike, then just ride. Forget FTP, SPD, power meter, RPM, HRM, Cadence and any snobbish acronyms. Only FUN, riding MORE is important.
I wouldn’t recommend Cleats and Clipless pedals if youre going to ride like this
1. clipless pedals demand high technique there are things such as floats
2. Clipless are expensive for the extensive power
3. Not suggested to ignore Cadence rpm and any other because yes this would be good for sub divisional riding however on roads and MTBs and RB this is required to think about
I'd like to know if clipless (we really need another name, clip-in sounds good) is better than flat for me or not, before I spend $$$
GCN's testing says that it doesn't make too much of a difference speed wise, but the effort can be slightly less (except when fully sprinting), the only big thing for clipless is the feeling, that's the conclusion I have so far
SPD does have its difficulties in tough terrain but I think it often provides a bit of stability. While it doesn't improve power output over flats, it does definitely give you a little more momentary sprint power.
Everything in your video is pretty spot on actually, it's interesting to see how many people are misinformed.
I'm learning to use spd's now, i find them really useful for when i panic and don't clip out, getting really good at falling sideways, and as for not pulling on the upstroke, i scoop back with my foot but that's from learning on flats.
I prefer eggbeaters to SPDs because they are lighter but still have a reliable action. I even use them on my roadbikes because Look style cleats even with the covers are too ridiculous to walk in.
The trick to round pedaling is pushing your palms forward with 20 to 30 pounds of pressure on your handlebar. You'll fell light as a feather as you pull from 6 o'clock to 9 o'clock while sweeping through your stroke. I've moved to a bigger cog and can maintain the same speed for 20 miles.
@Bruce B I used to be a toe pusher on big, flat pedals. I could grind a big gear, but my form was super choppy. Took me 3+ months to unlearn this bad habbit. I've gone one cassette smaller and I'm faster because I can spin way more efficiently. I had the power, but I was wasting 15% of the output due to bad form.
A minor point: this vid contains a myth about the old toe-cage setup. At least for road use, the old system consisted of a toe cage, a leather strap around the foot, and a metal plate with a slot in it nailed to the sole of the shoe. The slot locked into the vertical edge at the rear of the pedal frame so in fact your feet WERE secured to the pedals and you COULD pull up if you wanted to. In a crash, the leather strap would generally stretch enough that your foot would pop out. The modern cleats are an improvement in almost every way, especially not having that leather strap constantly squeezing your foot!
Safe no you can still break stuff ! Take me left ankle that has three titanium screws in it they don't all way release in a crash
Ouch!
How did it happen you?
I use MTB SPD on my road bike and flats on MTB don't like road cleats and you can't walk anywhere in them.
I do circles with my SPD pedals on both the road and mtn. bikes (Actually I do circles with my caged pedals also). Just doing circles have improved my biking.
really good points and I agree with everything you said. I would just add that you dont need road bike specific, clipless pedals. I use spd mountain bike style pedals on my road bikes and have done for years. I would argue that they work better due to the dual entry, plus you dont have to walk around like a waddling duck when off the bike! I too use flats on my mountain bike, its far better for good technique,
There is round pedaling. You just don't provide much power on the upstroke. But if you don't pedal in circle, the leg on the upstroke will impede the leg on the downstroke. If you have a smooth, round stroke, you'll get a lot more speed than if you're bouncing around.
It is actually best to rest the the keg moving back while the other leg is pushing down. Easiest way to take weight off pedal slightly as the foot goes back. Nobody can do a round style of pedaling at all cadences.
what does he mean, round pedaling isn't a thing? I definitely pull up when I'm clipped in, especially when I think about it, i can feel relief in my quads, and feel my hamstrings start to burn.It makes huge difference at the higher cadences, helping not to bounce on the seat, when using good form, which is pushing down and pulling up.
I totally agree...disliked the video because of what he said at that part...
For sure you are correct. When I started to go longer distances for commuting and travelling by bike instead of car travel, but NOT training, I had poor technique. But, even late in the day when I was tired, too tired to climb up the hill in front of me, I would switch to pulling up instead of pushing down and could just fly up on fresh muscles. Obviously, not good technique, but it worked.
Your channel is great, thanks for being honest about things which work, and especially which do not. Unfortunately there are way too many Chanel’s who are just an extended (and in some cases unpaid🤪) Arms of bike manufactures, who push bad stuff to the market in sake of profit. Thanks for that.
Back to this video...
Main myth, which you seems to be in as well - that Road pedals “transfer more power” when pedaling. From the physics - the power is power, if shoes are connected to the pedal - it doesn’t matter what connection type is used - energy is transferred. The way how people can pedal, even in higher RPM doesn’t depend on the pedal type. The difference comes to the air dynamics, dirt resistance and the shoes sole - one allows to walk easily when another (road) - doesn’t. If Shimano wouldn’t have a patent on SPD - all would switch as it is easier, much more durable and practical. All these road cleats are just a way to suck money from people’s pockets.
Anybody can drill a shoe for spd cleats. I have road shoes with holes for look style and spd cleats. Has nothing to do with patents.
Too many Chanels? What’s perfume got to do with anything?
I use mtb pedals on my road bike as I heard that they are easier to get into and out of the shoe you can actually walk around in which is handy as I do a lot of touring and means I can get away with just using my cycling shoes. They seem a little harder wearing to me also as they are made from metal and the road one are plastic. As the mechanism will work with dirt and mud inside of it. Actually, I can't work out what advantages road clipless pedals have over mtb pedals.
Power transfer. For me the difference feels so big I started running road pedals on my Disc Trucker.
It just gives you a larger pedaling platform for hard efforts. That bigger pedal can reduce hot spots as well over the smaller area offered by the mtb pedal. Most people will prefer mtb clipless pedals over flats, especially for touring but road clipless pedals are quite nice to ride in the setting they were intended
It has nothing to do with greater power transfer, as anyone with a smattering of high school physics would understand. Exactly the same power is being transmitted to the pedals with MTB clipless but through a smaller cleat/clip surface area. This could potentially lead to so called "hotspots" i.e. a numbness in a small area of the foot over the cleat, however I have to say that even touring up to 8 hours a day, I've never experienced that. Moreover some MTB clipless pedals have a platform built around them which the shoe can also push against on the down stroke.
Most touring cyclists ride at fairly low wattage at a steady state. So there isn't enough force going through the pedals to create a hot spot or lose power. With a smaller pedaling platform the shoe ends up flexing a greater amount during each pedal stroke than a road setup and therefore power is lost. The platform in the shoe isn't as stiff as the pedal so at some point it's going to flex. That said this really only becomes even theoretically possible at super high wattages, like what you would see in a sprint. There's only going to be a few watts difference between the two but in a race that's decided in inches it might make the difference. At medium wattages such as those seen in professional time trials and parts of pro road races hot spots could be an issue but with highend carbon mtb shoes available this isn't very likely these days. One thing none of us have mentioned so far is aerodynamics. The road to pedal interface is typically a lot cleaner and the shoes are also more streamlined. This won't make any difference to the average Jo, but it might buy a little time for the serious road racer or triathlete.
Road bike clips are just waiting to be phased out. I got some mtb shoes last week and theyre just better in every way!!
@mal cross yea I don't understand why they haven't adopted the mtb ones. Work just ad good but if you twist your foot (never happened while riding) it comes out
@@rajgill7576 its the aero and weight difference. Road bikers are anal so a smooth bottomed shoes is lighter and more aerodynamic. Its also because the first cycling shoes just had smooth leather soles and treaded soles never caught on really until MTBs were invented.
I have SPDs on my CX and commuter bikes, the main advantage is the availability of shoes that allow off the bike movement without the awkwardness of road pedal systems. I have 3 bolt road pedals for my road bike (and sometimes put them on my CX Cannondale). These road pedals allow for better power transfer with each pedal stroke....helping performance....hey at 60 I am not racing that much but the difference between the clipless and the toe-straps of my Criterium days is like day and night.
Another benefit of clipless pedals IMHO is injury prevention. Not crash type injuries, but the nagging foot/ankle/knee injuries that come from inefficient or incorrect pedalling. I've found that when I have my shoes/cleats/pedals dialled in I can maintain consistent pedaling technique. When I'm cranking efficiently, the only things sore at the end of a ride are my legs. If anything else hurts bad...I need to address set up (back, feet, knees, wombat placement).
Platforms are great for lots of things I have no clue on how to do...technical mountain biking, downhill, etc. But even for errands and commuting dual purpose pedals (platform and SPD) allows the choice of clipping in.. Just my 2 cents. YMMV
I was very sceptical about clip less pedals because I felt it would take the joy out of riding considering I would need to always be mindful of unclipping. One lesson I have learned, though, is to ensure that the cleats and the pedals are from the same manufacturer. I did a mixed and matched and my foot remained in the pedal even though I tried to unclip. I love the clip less now but I still don't trust them in the same way I trusted the whole style pedals. One noticeable advantage for me is that my feet kept steady on the clip less pedals especially during wet rides. I often do 60-100k rides and on a few occasions I had numbness from the pedals. I adjusted the position of cleats and it's much better now on long rides. Sorry I didn't intend to write a book, but so what?
I think to have a fluid pedalstroke you slightly take the weight off of the
upstroke in such a manor that you still can relax (relatively) the upstroke
for blood circulation and don't go anaerobic. Actualy like in speedskating.
So, if done thoughtfully, you can also cycle well with flat-pedals. (-95 rpm).
I don't understand why people would think clipless is dangerous when I went clipless on my road bike years ago I was a bit concerned about a crash or tipping the bike over while on it, but after five minutes of practice with clips it felt completely normal to me, I always clip first time and no need to look down, also no issues with unclipping when the bike comes to a stop, I just get one foot out before I come to a complete stop
Guess you've never had to do an emergency stop if you always have time to preemptively unclip. Unfortunately there's not always time to think especially when idiots in cars are mixed in
For me, its abouy practicality for MY riding style. I commute, do overnight packed tours, and light mountain biking on my 3 bikes (mountain, cross, and road bikes). I live in the desert and have had a couple times where I broke down with no other option but to walk, so riding in running shoes is my preference. I also use the bikes to get to trail heads and I walk around town a lot as well. Personally, you could tell me I would have a 25% increase in efficiency and I would still ride flats. I can lend my bikes to others, ride and walk long distances, and adjust my footing occasionally. If I only rode around town and had a wife that could pick me up in emergencies, I would probably put some on my road bike, but until then, platforms for me.
my SPD cleat shoes are about as easy to walk in as my sneakers. They are a little stiffer, but not to any great extent. (they are less stiff than my dress shoes for work, which I am able to wear aand walk in for 12-16 hours at a pop!)
I would disagree with your 3rd myth as in a crash it isnt as always so easy to unclip, I've ridden clueless for a few years and I've returned to flats as I always struggle when in a crash situation to get out of the pedals my friends also have the same experience which I had
my first week i went to mtb clip-less. i hit a dark green painted mile marker, and did a flip. bike went over my head because i stayed clipped in.. so yah at first you forget to unclip when accident occurs.
Senpai Daddy I use to race road and track for several years then moved to downhill and mtb. I can see why some people struggle to unclip when they haven't been use to them but now I find its second nature and I've never been in a crash and been stuck to the bike
i know what your saying and some people can unclip without no problems but i found it rather hard and some occasion impossible to unclip meaning i couldn't ditch my bike at all, im not the most perfect rider in the world and find i crash alot cus i decide to stupid stuff with my friends and being clipped in when doing stupid stuff made it hard for me to use clips, im not saying clips are bad and i've used them while racing for that slight efficiency when pedeling but i still prefer flats and always recommend flats not clips
Most crashes will unclip automatically but it's true that it might not unclip if your bike goes over your head. Happened to me while practicing wheelie as I leaned backwards. I felt on my backbone, nothing I could do.
Bike rider for over thirty years went clipless and fell twice in 6 months could not unclip in a sudden emergency! Now back to flat
I never understood why pedals that clips in are called clipless pedals .... i'm so confused right now
I work in a bike shop in montreal ( francophone area ) and we just call them clip pedals (pédales à clip), makes so much more sense ...
Sound stupid, but, pedals with clips, are those pedals with toe clips, that go over your toes and usually have straps on too. The clipless have no straps and no toe clips, they are replaced with the clips for the shoes.
Ohh i see ! Thanks!
I was just lost in the translations (my first language is french)
It's also a old sales ploy. Old product versus new.
We should have called them "strapless" when they first got popular in the 1980s, then there would be less ambiguity.
Clippless being more dangerous in a crash, is not a myth.
I've witnessed numerous bike wrecks where the rider had at least 1 foot still clipped in.
I've witnessed numerous wrecks where the rider tried to bail, after failing to trick a jump... & could not clip out quick enough.
There's a reason why we use platforms.
Clipless pedals, bar ends, fat tires and dual suspension were all once considered "essential" for the serious mountain biker. Now, hit the trail on any Saturday and you'll find rigid "adventure" bikes with platform pedals and drop bars keeping up with and in many cases outperforming the most sophisticated mountain bikes. I started mountain biking back in 1987 with a rigid frame and platform pedals...it appears we're right back where we started. Ride the system that works for you!
I have a mtb bike with bar ends, toeclips and straps and I pass most people I come across on uphill climbs and flats with all the new bikes. The only thing the platform bikers with more downhill oriented bikes excel at is going gonzo fast on downhills. Bar ends are great for changing hand positions. The newer mtbs have super wide bars and makes bar ends less easy and practical. As far as spd style mtb, they are slightly more efficient as the metal to metal contact transmits more power than a rubber sole on a platform or cage pedal. I notice about a one gear difference, so not major.
No they don't unclip always easily. If it's true that falling on low speed only happens at first, when you just had got them. Then I have just got them already about 3 and half years. When I unclip the right foot, but for some reason, that I don't understand by my self, start to lean to left after stopping,. There's nothing I can do to save it. I can't unclip the left foot anymore. It's like it's stuck on pedal, no mater how desperately I try to twist my ankle it won't twist enough, or it really feel like it's stuck. I always hit the floor with my left knee, when this happens.
Yes, well I fall because I'm stupid.. and also bike fit isn't always good enough.. sometime I get it worse when trying to improve it.. I have 2 recordings from handlebar camera. First one is really just my stupidity. I should not have turned into snow there like that.. Maybe it would all have been fine, but after already in snow, I got worried that there might be something sharp under snow and turned handlebar back a little and the bike was washed away under me on wet paint that was waiting there under snow.. other case, the kid decided to change his curse to front of me after his dad had shouted to him already second time "Come away from there! Are you listening!" Rebellious kid decided to go further away, from his yelling dad. So.. anyways. I fell, because I was stupid.. not uncliping correct leg.. czcams.com/video/nAT3vh9u28I/video.html
Make sure that the bolts on the bottom of the shoe are not loose. If they get loose, it can prevent you from getting out as the cleat might be moving with the pedal instead of sticking with the shoe. That is very dangerous. Also, if you are using the Shimano SPDs, make sure you have the model 56 multi-release cleats and also adjust the spring tension on the pedal to minimum. If one of your pedals is still not releasing properly, have it looked at or replaced.
Is it true that brand new cleapless pedals are a bit tough to unclip than those already been used for a while? You know becauze of the loosening of the spring?
Sam Hill and your flat pedals...world champions!.
I use MTB clipless on my road and flats on my MTB. I like being able to walk semi-comfortably if I need to.
gotta say that's the truth when you crash you just kinda end up out of the pedals before you even know it. be it for the famous 0 mph falls if you have a brain fart when first learning
Round pedaling is a thing, I push forward at the top and pull back at the bottom. I find it helps my cadence over just pushing down.
Climbing is the first thing that improved a lot when I snitched to a clipless pedals. I was riding up hill 35-40% high with 18-19 km/h max speed now I can ride uphill with 25-30 km/h speed. On a long distances it saves a lot of time.
And also the acceleration improved a lot, I can reach the “comfortable top speed” in just few seconds, even if there’s a wind blocking the way.
40% grade at 30 kph - LOL - that's like well over 1000w power. No way bro.
3,5-4% maybe
That feat may be an overstatement, well done if you are anywhere near for a short while. As I understand the steepest road in the world is 35 %, and ,for example, the gradients of the steepest roads on the mountainstages in Tour de France is below 20 %.
I'm really bad at math and numbers so probably you are right.
Clipless pedals can make a big difference uphill, and that was your point. I have experienced the same.
I have used Spd pedals on both mtb and road bike for years. One advantage of spds is that they allow some lateral movement of the forefoot, I don't mean float - but movement from left to right. This is very useful if you have a hip injury as road pedals fix the forefoot flat to the pedal and force the hip joint to move in one plane instead of allowing abduction and adduction of the femur during the pedal stroke.
I have done 200km+ road rides on spds 'hotspots' are a myth with modern carbon soled shoes.
I ride flats, but what I do is sweep the pedal back to about a 7 o' clock position so as to have the opposite pedal in a better position for the down stroke. It takes some concentration at first but it helps me on the climbs. I also go light on that pedal after the sweep back so I wouldn't be working against it.
When I use round pedaling with clipless pedals I get lots more power. Even at 80 to 90 RMPs. I will say it takes a degree of concentration to round pedal at high RPM but it works well. I just concentrate on the back, up, and forward pedaling. The down pedaling comes naturally.
I do pull strong only at super low cadence, especially in the technical trails.
I get way more torque clipless. like when u get bogged down and need to downshift. but clipless, u can torqueit baack to speed without downshifting.
It’s just that first week when you pull up to a traffic signal and fall over because you weren’t practiced in pulling out of the clip. I can remember.
it's not a proper bunny hop but you can jump with them (saved my ass more then once)
SPD pedals for my cyclocross and road bikes. Flat pedals for my MTB. Why? I tend to bail quickly over fails on sketchy terrain or a bad jump. Also, it does instill confidence on trails. I can also move my foot position as I like.
IDK man, when I ride flat pedals I don't feel confident in MTB at all... the feet move around in bumpy terrain and I can't control it. But I heard it's all about the habbits. Sam Hill rides flats up to date, AFAIK. One needs to always put some weight on the pedals when riding flats, to prevent the feet from moving around and changing position. In clipless it's not necessary, so I just forgot how to do it after 10 years of riding clipless 95% of the time
+sickbiker I ride clipped in for everything, even bike polo. Once you get used to it, the confidence you get from it, feeling like a part of the bike- is what it's all about... newbies- don't be afraid... practice in a hallway, clip in and out with both feet at least 20 times until you can do it without looking, then you are ready to hit the road or trails. Don't forget to unclip at least one foot before stopping, and don't be discouraged if you do and have a low-speed fall, it happens to everyone at least once, and after a while you will laugh when you remember it...
Leon Hubbard o
1. I used flat pedals for first time and knew to jump and when I switched on spd it was easier to jump higher than with flat pedals but now i do not know to jump with flap pedals
2.on high uphill when i go very (3-5km/h)slow it is important to pull othervise will stop when pedals come on 12/06 position
3. it is danger in any situation if you do not know how to relese it.
So there is no any myth every is true
Makan Tahi you can pull up with flats as well
yes, but I should then drive flats more often to get use, but I do not need for flats because I am on spd
Life lesson here. Pulling out might be just a split second to late.
We talking about the pedals or???????
Ayyy Latvietis
I noticed a major difference in my wattage power increase, when I got my first set of exstastar road pedals!! Then I bought a $160 pair of spd road pedals, with a carbon sull underneath the cleats of my $150 pair of Pearl izumi road shoes. I then noticed even more of a greater power output in wattage, do to the carbon, which makes the sulls stiffer! However, the down sides to having carbon sulls is, not only can they crack, when you get involved in a wreck but, it also, oftenly & usually results in having less foot movement, when it comes to comfort. So, when it comes down to it, unless you're doing a short race &/or where every marginal gain counts, then you'd be better off with just buying shoes with plastic sulls so, you won't cut off any blood serculation.
Why I like clipless on a road bike:
When riding over a pothole with the rear tire, the bike wants to fling your ass over the handlebar. You can only hope to land back on the shoes before landing of your nuts.
Also: bunny hopping proved useful.
Wow, u really must have bad nut sag. I literally, in the history of my entire cycling activities, have never given any thought to hurting myself in the nuts. You see. Normally the nuts dont even touch the saddle. Your butt does... Your nuts stay safely between your thighs, just barely being touched by the long and narrow portion of the saddle. Even if u miss your feet, your ass and your thighs should make contact before ur nuts do.
@@13ballom My Bike Balls naturally bob-around while I ride, boosting my visibility and safety in a hilarious way :>
I am using MTB pedals on a Road Bike, I see no advantage over special Roadpedals. I bought the Shimano XTR for my road bike
Congratulations.
Get a mtb. Other road users will like u more.
Me too. Not getting a second pair of shoes. Xtr trail pedals on all my bikes.
Yup. They work great for road too. If they work off road, they can work just as well on road.
Well I use both on my Enduro MTB and gravel bike. I do some crazy things on my gravel bike and some times I just need those flats so I don’t have to think what so ever about unclipping and just let the bike fall from my feet. And a lot of times when I try a new trail on my MTB or even try a hole new major part I will do it on flats because there is just a level of comfortable I have with the flats I am still trying to get with my clipless
I didn't read all comments so maybe it was covered. One benefit I've noticed from running clipless (spd) is on steep loose climbs I am better able to keep consistent power at the wheel rather than a pulsed power and it seems this results in improved traction and momentum on these climbs. I did break my ankle resulting from a crash in spd's and carry the hardware with me today so I still go flats in new terrain and if I know there will be chunky or loose downhill but much prefer the clipless on XC style rides.
Speak for yourself on the "Round pedaling". Being a fairly successful XC racer I have adapted the toe scoop technique which consists of a push, slide back, and scoop pull all through the pedal stroke.
Glad it works for you to be fairly successful. Two second google search provides more context: burnhamcoaching.com/myth-of-pedaling-circles/ Also I didn't see you or SickBiker on here: www.uci.ch/mountain-bike/ranking/ so...
I use spd's on a fixed gear and they work fine, getting out is easy and I can walk comfortably.
I just can't get my head around what he's saying about round pedaling, trust me, if you ride fixed you will pedal in a circle. The force of the upstroke will knock you out of the saddle if you can't at the very least keep neutral force applied to the crank in all directions.
Первый раз прокатился на контактах - сломал руку. Отличное начало сезона.
Still don't get why its called clipless instead of clip-in. Anyway... i just want to know what the advantages are for running road pedals instead of spd on a road bike, because i use the same shoes on both my XC bike and Road bike. No problem keeping up with the roadies.
they're called clipless because its in reference to the old toe-cages that were used in the past. the toe-cages were called clips. and so since these pedals do not have a toe-cage/clip, its called clipless.
and usually the difference from what I've seen/heard/experienced, is that the road pedals typically just have a larger platform. I suppose for better transfer. bigger of an issue for top athletes maybe. but I think for us mere mortals, spd is just fine. I roll with spd too on my road bike, as with many of my friends. have never heard of any complaints either. worlds more comfortable to walk around in spd shoes anyway. :D
You always find good content...thank you! ( I don't like clipless pedals ..I'm still stuck on toe clips!
Get confident before clipping in, shouldn't have to crash so don't worry about it!
When I first bought Shimano Pd-m520 clipless pedals about a year ago, I tried them in the shop and fell over. From new the pedals are set at the middle position , so I said lets adjust them them to minimum, but they said no, it's too sloppy. So I eventually braved it home, but over next two days I fell off 5 times as I could not simply unclip fast enough. The guys at the bike shop said it was about technique, so I persevered, but in the end I adjusted them to minimum, and then I was fine. Eventually, I changed the cleats to the easier beginner type, SH56, which were better still as they felt they had more float. I don't think I'll ever use the SH51's again as I don't like the way I feel locked in by them. I used toe clip pedals for years you see, so I'm used to a lot of free movement.
Fr. The 51s are like a death trap lol. They came w a pair of my cycling shoes but I've always used 56s. Never even took the 51s off my indoor training shoes.
Those guys at the shop don't know a thing. They were giving advice coming out of their asses. You were right to do the minimum adjustment and you should have insisted. Good luck!
@@renexerez2122 she gives advice out of her ass czcams.com/video/LjUgz5FHR90/video.html
@@eric97402
Wuss. When I started mountain biking, there were no clipless mountain bike pedals. I used road cleats with double leather straps that I absolutely could not get out of without reaching down and swiping the straps open. It made me an excellent bike handler. Mind you, I was riding hardcore backcountry in Alaska. I once went off the side off a trail and did a complete flip at 25-30 mph and dropped 20 feet, since I couldn’t get out of my pedals; I was very lucky some willow trees caught me. No damage.
P.S., you young whippersnappers get off my lawn! 😁
I got tired of replacing cycling shoes as I'm an over-pronator so all of my shoes start running over within a months time & typically are so bad I should replace them after 3 months. That get's really painful & expensive when you are talking cycling shoes. Plus I could never really keep foot pain from rearing it's ugly head sooner or later, it caused me to cut short many a ride. Tried many different insoles & 3 different types of pedal systems & 2 different shoe brands. I stuck with it anyway for several years enduring the pain & going thru numerous pairs of expensive cycling shoes, but I eventually gave up & said this is stupid..I'm not racing, I'm just riding to get & stay fit. I went to platforms on all of my bikes & have not looked back. No more foot pain & they make some good options for platform riders these days. I'm currently riding with a pair of Teva Links & love it.
Sounds like you needed a custom fitted orthotic. All pro riders use these now. They are expensive but it sounds like you should have been assessed by a podiatrist. The orthotic will hopefully correct your pronation and be a good fix for your "hot foot" (metatarsalgia). Orthodics are made today to suit cycle shoes whereas in the past they only suited running shoes. A cheap way is to buy orthotics from a discount chemist. Try this first before going the expensive way. I remove the inner of the cycle shoe and get a perfect fit.
I must admit after 50 years cycling I mainly use flat running shoes like skate board shoes always with orthotics on flat pedals. When I was younger I often used running shoes with orthotics and rubber pedals. I toured all over Australia using this set up. I would never ride on roads with heavy traffic with clipless pedals. Its extremely important to be able to very quickly step down. Ive done a lot of touring and one of the surprises is the number of serious riders who use sandals with cage or flat pedals. Often it solves the problem of wide feet without buying the extremely expensive wide cycle shoes. Also sandals are a lot cooler in the heat. I thought it sounded stupid at first but I have no trouble pedalling up the road in thongs (flip flops).
The best cycle shoes Ive had for flat pedals is the "Five Ten" brand. Bit expensive from CRC. The ones I got had the same inner sole size as my running shoes.
The orthodics I use are the "Orthoheel" by Sholl from a local Discount Chemist. Ive recommended these to many people offering to buy them back. No-one has.
No mountains in your country I suppose....
I want to go back to safer platform pedals, but I have already spent so much money for clipless pedals.. Went to clipless years ago because I thought, that I can learn to bunny hop and will have better power output. First shoes were awful, causing tremendous pain. It was painful after only half hour ride, then the pain slowly dissapeared, but later when I got off the bike and to home it was tremendous.. endured it because had spend money.. Bought new special inner soles.. still no good, then duck tapped pieces of packaging foam under the inner soles to right spots.. at middle to lift third and forth toe up that they would not pinch the nerve.. Got it almost perfect. Bought also winter cycling shoes for warmth, because believed, that will benefit from their better power output in snow.. It was so scary to ride on icy roads when clipped in.. Could not relax the upper body and shoulders which made it even more dangerous. Well at least had studded tires. Anyways after 2 years I got pretty confident, was not uncliping even when riding slow speed at city on shared pedestrians and bicycle roads.. All was fine, until one day I had to break suddenly to avoid a collision with a kid on kickbike. I coild not unclip the left foot.. again. It was the fault of kids dad who was yelling: "Bicycle is coming, come away from there", "Are you listening? Come away!" Well obviously a kid would go further away from a person who yell to him and this case he turned to front of me.. It went well, I was only one who got hurt.. broke the knee. Okay I thought maybe it's the fault of pedals that could not unclip left foot. I noticed it sometime get stuck. Got new pedals. But after a while also on new pedals the left feet was sometime not uncliping well. I guess the fault is on my feet.. I have sprained it several times in past.. Anyways after 2 months when I already had weak new skin on the knee. I fell again.. I was stupid, got bored of riding on clean road and wanted to try to go to snow.. slow speed, but, there was road paint under heavy wet snow.. and fell, and again to left side.. The exact same spot against asphalt.. Of course the foot did unclip from pedal.. Sick biker is correct. It always unclip in crash, but it's usually too late.. Now bought new sh53 cleats. I think I can use those with my old m530 pedals with weak spring tension. I would not dare to use them with m520, because they are too narrow.. Foot may unclip and slip off of the pedal to side.
through caution to the wind and sell the clipless setup secondhand. Whats the point of trying to enjoy it go and buy some nice flats and have fun riding once again
Hardi
Really the fault of the crash with the small kid was yours. reason being that when on a bike and riding past walkers, you should really slow right down to almost walking pace yourself. You don't try to pass walkers either from the back or front at any kind of pace. What I do is if I'm riding at pace, I slow down a fair bit before the walker so they are comfortable with my pace and not anxious. I slow right down to almost their pace when I get to them, and pass slowly. It's unfair on the walkers to pass them at any kind of pace, dangerous for both them and you. But even if it's not dangerous, it's a courtesy to the walkers and it's not really fair to pass walkers that fast, unless you have a lot of room to pass then at distance. Particularly where they are young kids like in your situation, it's even more important then to slow right down and don't make it a dodgy dodging game where parents are panicking for their kids because a fast metal machine is coming towards them and they have no clue of your skill level or what their kid is going to do. Any situation with a walker where you're passing close, you go almost as slow as them.
When coming from behind, I've been walking, not on a bike path but on a walking path, and decided to cross the road. So I turn on the path to walk to the road, then collide with a speeding bike rider I hadn't heard coming behind me. That bike rider intending to pass me close and at pace. Dangerous and not right to do on a walking path. Even on a shared path you shouldn't pass fast and close. Only past fast if you have a lot of room and even if the walking turns sideways you won't collide and have time to swerve. And with kids, it's stupid to pass at pace from behind even if you've got room, kids go everywhere at any time.
you should read the manual for the shimano spd on "General Safety Information first bullet" *SPD-SL Pedals are designed so that you release them only when you intend to release. They are not designed to release automatically at times such as when falling off the bicycle.*
You should try the Multi release SPD cleats, those really do come off easy in case you crash.
He was saying it was second nature, aka a muscle memory thing, not that the pedal would do it it itself. in other words you would take the action to unclip as a reflex action without thinking about it.
They have two types, the multi release can be set to realease easily. I had a moment where i fell backwards off bike on steep climb and it released when i pulled up and out in midair and saved a bad fall.I use the single release when i ride on the road because iv pull out of the multis trying to put down too much power.
they release when foot angle allows for the release. That is why they are spring tensioned and that is why clipless pedals were invented. With toe clips, straps and cleats, a tightened down strap did not release foot in a crash.
can i use the MTB clipless pedals for my road bike ?
nam trần lê phương yes, I am riding my mountain bike with road cleats
Im riding my mountain bike with road cleats but I sold it yesterday to buy M530.
I used SPD's on my road bike so I don't need two pairs of shoes.
Yes, and big advantage is that you can walk around in the shoes when off the bike.
I started jumping and bunny hoping on platforms but I feel better and jump better in my m530's
no footers? tailwhips? lol,
Note the key difference between MTB and road large chain rings to complement the cleats clearly shown in video. MTB large chain rings have square profile but road large chain rings have razor-sharp shark's tooth profile just like my bicycle. The reason you file the teeth to shark's teeth for road is if you're dropping back you can elbow the competition off & get them in the back with the chain ring. Sick biker has clearly used this sophisticated technique.
I use flat only. I don't see the point of using cleat. Also, using cleat means my feet is stuck to one position. I like to have the freedom to move my feet around on the pedal as I am not a robot/machine, I am a human - my joints are flexible.
EPO blood boost
So true
hahahhahah "stuck to one postition", that's exactly why I use spd. The main value in clipless is that your feet are always in the best position for pedaling efficiently and bike control, you never have to think about it or adjust your feet. No matter how wrecked and/or unfocused you are it just works all day every day, and if you need to stretch out the feet a bit it is super easy to unclip->clip back in (to that perfect position every time).
without cleat, i can stretch my feet too. So stretching is not the question here.
My question is, you are saying your cleat can actually move up/down, left/right 5 mm, in all direction, or turning clockwise/anticlockwise for 1~3 degree, WHILE cycling ?
I tried clipless on and off for a year on my road bike. The flaws far outweigh any benefits. I stuck with a good quality flat. Clipless removed all the joy out of riding.
After a month of riding clipless, I had a totally unexpected flight over the bars. I stood on the ground in front of my bike (the speed wasn't high) and then I realized I had been clipped in. 10 years and A LOT of crashes later, I'm still riding clipless and never had problems because of it.
How can you stand on the ground in front of your bike - but then realise after you was still clipped in? Or did I not understand correctly?😂
edited and corrected the tense - sorry, I forgot how to english
mosiowaty No worries!😂 I read it 3-4 times like, hang on.. Was he having some sort of OOB experience or something? Haha and btw, same here about having no problems. I've just started riding clipless this past week, and after purposely putting myself in situations where I'm gonna need my feet.. I soon realised you tend to naturally un-clip yourself anyway. It was well worth making the switch, I don't think I'll be using flats again👍🏻
Just had another "crash" on Friday (ice on tarmac), sliding on the road and looking at my bike sliding further and further away from me... Wait, when did I clip out? Cheers and good luck with clipless :D
I started using pedals that clip on one side and are flats on the other.
I pedal flats in the middle of the city and I clip on long roads.
I have some Shimano ones, I think the PD-EH500, I like them a lot 👍😀 it's nice to not put on special shoes just to go for a pootle around 🥳
Thanks for the informative video. Now I'm going clipless for sure!
What do you think about combined SPD/flat? E.g Funn Mamba, Shimano pd-eh500. I like their extra option, plus for downhill sections could transition to the flat side
half of it is nonsense
And yeah.. the main part is that it just holds ur feet on pedal in best position.. i remember that pedaling on flats sometimes almost brought me down.
platforms and some 5.10s are the best for mtb. I feel far more secure than I ever did on clipless
The theory behind wider pedal platforms is that you're able to increase your wattage do to the pedal being closer to the crank, which not only increases aerodynamics but it's also like, comparing the two pedals to your hand grip on a waterbottle or other objects. If you just grip it with your fingers rather than using your entire hand then you won't have 100% grip on that object. Make sense?
James Campagna nope
What parts are you having trouble with, that doesn't make sense to you?
For wider road pedals, more area of the bottom of your feet has more contact on the pedal, which means more force, tork, more wattage power increase. This can also help you be faster, by increasing your cadence, which can also allow you to eccellorate quicker, when in a moments notice, like in a sprint, where it's most effective.
in practice _every_ pro rider uses clipless pedals on road bikes. Guess why.
It hasn't been mentioned yet that clipless pedals also provide a perfect and slip-free position for the shoe on top of the pedal that is adjustable by the rider's preferences. Your shoe will always be in the exact same position when you ride which is the biggest advantage in my opinion.
A second ago you were talking about wide platform pedals and now clipless??
So what are they made for if not for the "myth" you mentioned? Are there really the myth of crashing>>dangerous??
Clipless pedals are more sophisticated in terms of having the shoe well mounted on the right position coaxial with the knee cup and require a professional bike fit with all what implies . Flat pedals are easy to use, no big deal.
Flat pedals are more than good enough for anyone not close to Pro level. I use them on all my bikes, road and off road.
I got rear-ended by a car on my commute last week. The bike was pushed forward and I went up onto the hood of the car. I did not see the car coming, so unclipping would not have been an option. I wonder if my legs would have gotten screwed up if I had been clipped in. With flats, I just got some road rash and a jammed finger. No twisted ankles or knees.
I bounced 50 feet along asphalt at 45 kph on my left side sitting on the bike after a power boat trailer hit me in the back at 55 kph. No leg problems at all just lower back ache for 12 months. So, no concerns for you about twisted ankles or knees.
Had a few collisions over many years commuting with clipless . Every time they released themselves without me having to think about it, a bit like ski bindings do. Not really a surprise as Look, a ski binding manufacturer, developed the first successful clipless pedals.
I rode my gravel bike for 21 miles a couple weeks ago in a benefit ride. I'm used to using straps from the 80s, but just this past year got back into cycling. Using clipless. 21 miles was my longest distance so far. Same as with the straps, my toes went numb. How can I prevent this from happening?
Sounds like you have a problem with the actual shoe fit to me but try moving your cleats around.
Second on the shoe fit problem. It sounds to me you may need to half or maybe one size up to account for your feet swelling/expanding during the ride
For me best clipless pedals are with bigger platform for when i just take the bike for a ride with fliplops and dont have the shoes nearby
I know what you're trying to say about round pedaling, but it depends on who you are.
Many more advanced cyclists like me and other pros pull round 80% of the time or more, at all cadence, 50rpm to 250rpm.
I have used clipless on road and cyclocross bikes, but I am am going to start with flat pedals with a mountain bike. I USUALLY cannot get out of my pedals in a difficult technical section with my cross bike or when I am riding up a steep hill-thus I lose momentum, come to a stop and fall. And no its not that the settings are too tight or new. These are older pedals I have used for years. I think it is I am so focused on pedaling up that steep hill or thick mud that by the time I am almost stopped I can't get out. Often/usually I am still clipped in after my fall.
Van H Savell Jr I was just out on Saturday and I live in Az so out trails are mostly loose dirt and sand and rocks. I have never used Clip less but as a new mountain biker I'm glad I can throw my foot down when the like is about to washout from under me. I would have crashes a few time if I was clipped in. once I get more used to my bike and riding I might try clipless.
"No such thing as round pedalling.". That ain't true bro. By nature of the mechanical structure of the crankset you have no choice but to pedal in a circle (round). I would agree that the pulling up at the bottom of the stroke is undesirable because it's a wasted use of energy. Instead, one should sweep through the base of the stroke, as if sweeping mud of the foot, to ensure a more efficient circular motion.
that style has been debunked in most pedaling studies. Very hard to do at all cadences and power outputs. Works for certain circumstances but not all.
I only ride fixed with clipless pedals SPD and Look and I pull up, pull back, push forward and push down even in high cadences of well above 100. not all at the same time but I like to make use of all my muscles and depending on let’s say momentarily riding style I push/pull in all kinds of different ways. So it’s a myth that not pulling at high cadences is a myth
Sadly you aren't really showing that there's a performance increase. You're anecdotal experience and preference to pull up doesn't prove that there's any increase in output. The few studies done have shown almost no benefit. If you ride a fixed gear you aren't interested in wattage output of your legs as you would benefit way more with a couple gear ratios than clipless pedals. Notice how no car has been single speed for almost a century. Gear ratios give your engine the ability to work in the perfect range that makes use of the torque the engine can make. Even tractors have multiple gears because there's no perfect single gear for all situation.
0 0 for me it’s proof enough that I ride way faster with my technique than when I use platformers only. I can proof it with my Garmin data. I am also very interested in Power data. (What is it that freewheel cyclists always think that their riding style is the only right one? It’s just plain wrong) It helps my crit training even though Watt data on longer rides is total BS on fixed since they are optimized for freewheel bikes and record strange values when you don’t output any power but have cadence or when you backpedal to slow down. Also please don’t compare a car engine to the human body. That’s different stuff. And the main reason I got into fixed is that at some point I rarely shifted and later didn’t shift at all. Not consciously but it just happened. I don’t do long alpine rides where I need special gears anyway. I can tell you that I Output enough power on my fixed gear bike to ride way faster than I ever did on any road bike. So it’s the right way to travel for me. And to come back to those studies. As you have said yourself, there aren’t enough studies so there have to be more.
he said it is a myth that your steady speed will be more efficient , and than said it is better for your sprints - aka high cadence.
EVERYONE thinks this. Not a single test has shown enough pulling up to happen enough to matter,but people tend to think they are doing it enough to matter.
brad sanders there are many tests out there, just google search, the reason most professional bikers use clipless pedals, they are more efficient. If you ride very technical 1 by stuff, I’d personally still use flats for safety but on road or gravel or low tech stuff there’s definitely a technical edge. I’ve personally seen almost a two mph increase on my Garmin with the same bike on the same rides. I’ve also seen my watts used go down 6-9 watts on top of being faster. Being attached to your pedal helps you have a better pedal stroke and you are not worrying about staying on your pedals at high cadences. So you can use an easier gear with higher cadence using less watts and gaining speed.
Flats everytime for me, but then I am a serious touring cyclist and MTB enthudiast.
I ride alone and don't race so keeping up with the lycra nappies in front of me is not an issue.
smh at the poor people in the comments that have been hurt because they were clipped in. Stop the madness... have FUN on your bike, is everybody sponsored pros racing?
Pedaling Innovations Catalyst pedals.
They were probably hurt because their pedals or cleats weren't adjusted properly. I think clipless is safer in many ways. Now my feet don't come off the pedals unless I want them to. I am not "stuck" to my bike though.
Well if we do pull up sometimes in sprinting then it's not a myth...
it's possible to use spd cleat on road bike for racing?
Yes, of course you need adequate pedals on the bike. You will perhaps feel less tightly connected than with SPD-SL (road-specific pedals), but I doubt that there is a measurable difference in terms of power output. Shimano sells one-sided SPD pedals that are nearly as light as their SPD-SL pedals and look good on a road bike.
Shimano makes some good spd pedals. xtr's are nice
yes
I personally don't like having my feet strapped on to my pedals. I ride mtb so it isn't necessary. I also like to wheelie and manual so i shift my feet forwards and backwards on the pedals to keep balanced. Also have you ever tried clipping back in whilst your front wheel is 3-4 foot in the air. It's not as easy as just placing your feet onto platforms
I like my clipless since my feet stay always in correct postion on hard terrain. With flats I find my feet swim around on the pedal and have to adjust positioning which hinders pedaling. Even when about to face plant I can send my foot straight forward off the clipless pedal without a thought. Takes practise though...