Belly Tank: First run at PENDINE VHRA. Ep83, YES!
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- čas přidán 24. 06. 2024
- Plenty of drama and success, completed first run at Pendine Sands.
Plan was to do a slow first shakedown run then go faster (with a GoPro fitted) later on. It didn't turn out that way but I don't care, I completed a run.
Hired a (huge) car trailer. Got it stuck on my S shaped downhill drive which delayed me getting to Pendine by 3 hours. Wales is hilly. I discovered a way to move a trailer sideways with a car on it 1cm at a time using a jack - something for another video maybe. Very slow method though.
Radiator boiled over at 103° Celsius during my slow return to the pits so I need to redesign my cooling system. The bulkhead/bodywork did its job, none of the boiling water landed on me, which was nice.
(Update 2 days later: A top hose blew off the head on one side explaining the volcano of water and steam. Have had engine running since and all seems OK)
Best comment of the day was from the marshal who towed me the last 100 yards back. When I apologised for needing a tow, he said not to worry at all, I had built a car that looks like a missile, completed a run on Pendine Sands for the first time and that was a big success in his book. I agreed with him !
Data recording of engine temperature showed 2 main things:
i) When you run and then park the car, the engine just sits at the final temperature it reached for several hours. If you run it 2h later for example, do NOT expect it to have passively cooled down significantly. There is not much passive airflow unlike in a car with an open front end.
ii) Due to (i) above and me having driven from trailer to the pits, waited in a queue with engine running and so on, by the time I started my run I was already probably in the high 90's.
Discussions in this video with two other belly tank owners who have different cooling systems, one using a large water tank, the other a radiator and additional pumps, both of which work OK. Lots of helpful advice.
I will probably go for the large tank of water method, maybe with a water intercooler between the engine circuit containing normal corrosion inhibitors and the large water tank simply containing tap water.
This means you can empty tap water onto the beach between runs if you want to and top the tank up with cooler water, without upsetting anyone.
A total water volume around 13 - 15 gallons is apparently good enough for 2 runs and slow returns without any need for water replacement. That is a very useful piece of information acquired by trial and error from those who have gone before.
The steering yoke looks cool but trying to turn it handing over from one hand to the other, while keeping your right knee out of the way of it, and also out of the way of the gear-shift, also using your right hand to operate the brake means 3 hands would be better. A small round wheel would actually make more sense. Maybe I will have both, with quick releases and just keep the yoke for the children who all want to have a play with it.
When running down the course, using the yoke is really easy, but the wide turn at the end, while trying to slow down at same time, or indeed being towed by a pickup truck means you can nearly run out of hands.
My dampers are not very good. 85 years old ! Had to slow down as front end was bouncing up and down on the spring too much, with no real damping. May have to use short conventional ones.
You need to be ready to be shaken about as the sand gets rougher during the day, and of course everything gets covered in salty sand, mainly on the slow return nearer the sea.
Question: Did Malcolm Campbell drive through the edge of the sea to cool his tyres before making his return run in 1927, as is claimed, or did his car just have a really poor turning circle ?
• Malcolm Campbell races...
i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/...
No way I could have pulled the trailer back up slope to my house with the car on it so I was emailing various storage places at 5am on the Sunday morning, managed to find one that had one container left. The owner apologised that it was not as clean inside as the others, he was meaning to refurbish it, for me this is better as he doesn't mind me working on it there. Sounds like a plan......
Successful weekend, learned a huge amount.
The temperature datalogger:
It uses an Arduino which is a small cheap hobby computer the size of a credit card. Often used by schools to teach basic programming and control of simple robots for example. My temperature datalogger (an ideal school project, useful for lots of things) is loosely based on these DIY examples you can find on the web. About $30 in parts:
www.instructables.com/Tempera...
projecthub.arduino.cc/the_ele...
maker.pro/arduino/projects/ma...
Music:
CZcams Audio Library
Greaser - TrackTribe
Happy Birthday Bossanova - E's Jammy Jams - Auta a dopravní prostředky
New subscriber here!! I am across the pond from you but I have been assembling a small machine shop to support the build of a 1928 Morgan/MG special hillclimb racer. She has a supercharged opposed twin mated through a cast aluminum two part adapter to an MG 4 speed manual transmission . The body is an aircraft ceconite fabric sprayed with a plasticizer. I will be starting my CZcams channel with that build.
Good luck!
@@XenonJohnD Thank you my brother !!!
One great use for CZcams is for passing on information hard learned from years of experience to younger generations, so long as you don't care about clicks or being an entertainer. A lot of the aluminium English wheeling I learned from the videos of a guy called Wray Schelin who must be well into his 70's. These skills are dying out and the people who have them are not CZcamsr types generally, unless they have a son who nags them to record what they know to help out the rest of us ! The Iron Trap Garage channel looks a bit like that, there is an older guy in the background who may be their father.
G'day mate,looking forward to watching your build in the future,good luck.🇦🇺
Luv it. Modern cocoon in a old school tank. Good gearing.
Incredible Build. When you pulled off that cover and there was an Arduino in there I was absolutely floored. Seriously high tech . Recording all those stats will get you closer to your goal. It is a computer "tale of the tape"..Really awesome guys!!!Love that car. I have always wanted to build a supercharged belly tanker like yours but I went a different way.....
I think recording temperature in some way was worth doing as I knew somehow it was going to be the biggest challenge to get right. I am going to have to add water-tank temp as well if I go down that route so I can know if the intercooler works or not. There is a lot on forums about cooling flatheads and some opinions conflict with each other. The only way is to measure everything and see what is going on. The gauges are OK but half the time you are not looking at them ! I am not trying to be really fast, but a bit of reliability would be good. You can probably buy temperature gauges these days that have some sort of datalogging function built in.
@@XenonJohnD Really nice job of keeping everything looking as if it came from the 1950's. I have seen where people have filled the block with epoxy and then drilled out high flow pathways for cooling fluids. I wish I could think of who that was because it was like ten years ago. the guy has a shop that specializes in flatheads and upgrading the performance. I might have heard that he developed a new block that works better than adapting an old one.He is in California I believe. There was an episode of power Nation with him and his business. I hope that helps
So awesome!!! Really recreating the excitement and the aura of those 50's builds running on the beaches in Southern California. Sure shows that when gearing up and building for any event whether it is in 2024 or 1954 the same problems crop up and are seemingly insurmountable. Spending all that time and money on such a great sport keeps us all out of trouble..kind of.....
I agree John!
Congratulations on your first run & reaching the finish line.
Thanks !
Very well outlined of first effort. Going home in good health with no bent metal is always a good thing. Here in the USA we have the advantage of the Bonaville Salt Flats, which offers some advantages to shoreline racing. Keep at it, ‘ol son!
thank you,i learned some interesting features from your video ! nice build,one day i start building my belly tank. one thing is just wrong,never use engine coolant while driving/racing in/on such a fragile and beautyfull ecosystem ! coolant is the most toxic fluid in the car and almost imposible for nature to restore from !
Agree. Newbie mistake.
Excellent video! Very interesting. Congrats on the run. Not being able to test the car beforehand is the big common problem for you all. I was there in my 33 coupe. No. 47. Mart.
Hi Mart, I have watched many of your videos for both mechanical tips and some of your Pendine runs for newbie reasons like when to change gear, how far to go at the end before making the great big U turn and so on. Having boiled over I appreciate more the one you made last year when you ran with the fanbelt removed in the quest for 90. I would have said hello but as a celebrity you are often surrounded by others doing the same !
Nice video John, I like the data logger thats giving you a lot of usfull infomation.
The temperature data is very useful as it makes really clear what was happening - and confirms what you told me when we chatted. WD-40 over everything steel and panels off tomorrow plus an engine test just to make sure it isn't broken. Then will consider the cooling.
Parry would be proud of you
well doooooone!
I ran a '23 T on the salt years ago, with a 354 Hemi. Cooling is best done with the large reservoir as you need weight not lightness when doing Speed runs as opposed to drag racing. To beat overheating, go with alky . Are you running houdaille shocks? they are adjustable which is why they were so popular decades ago. You could try a tighter (shorter) front spring. 😁😁
Am going for the large reservoir. Would like to include a water-water heat exchanger so can have corrosion inhibitors / anti-freeze in engine circuit and simple tap water in the reservoir tank. Big reservoir tank can then be partially drained and refilled if too hot. I have heard you can weld a radiator into a box essentially. Also looking at stainless swimming pool heat exchangers. Anyone have suggestions? Shocks were standard and old so no surprise they weren't working very well. Looking at Houdaiiles as they are still made or maybe just small cheap standard modern telescopic shocks (allowed in the rules). Cars have to run on pump gas.
Un prototype est toujours compliqué, tu sera au point l’année prochaine et au moins tu pourra faire de nombreux essais de roulages pour oarfaire ton belly tank , merci pour la vidéo.....
you did well......just new car blues..you'll get it figured out
The car drove fine and nothing fell off so that is all good :)
Cool
Great to see it in it's natural environment. I worry with all that salt water and it sitting in that container/storage unit it'll rust a lot though. Did you get to hose it off first?
The really nice guy running a garage opposite let me blast it with his air gun on a very long hose, which has ben recommended by people. As it was dry I didn't want to get it wet again. Panels all off today and spraying with WD40 which I will repeat quite often. Will spray all internal cavities with Dynax, didn't have time before last weekend. Dehumidifier also, even if they are the chemical crystals type. I took this video by Superfast Matt as a warning not to leave it for a while before I do all this: 'My racecar is rust'
czcams.com/video/HYIa1IZUKJk/video.html
This is another reason I wanted the main body to have as few louvres as possible. The front suspension is salty but the frame is remarkably clean inside. By using a water tank if anything I can have even fewer vents when I redesign the head fairing.
@@XenonJohnD It was interesting seeing those different approaches to cooling. Be interesting to see what you come up with here. I've been using some aviation stuff called ACF-50 as an anti-corrosive spray. Recommended by Mr Tweed! Seems to be doing the job stopping my tools and machine tools rusting in my metal shed.
Very nice. Maybe add a small electric fan to the front so when your sitting it can cool down. Mike
Was thinking of a rad fan, electric water pump than can run from an external battery pack when parked with some sort of timer shutoff. I think the big water tank with water intercooler and an electric water pump might be better overall simply because you can quite easily change the water tank (tap) water. Still thinking about it.
👍❤
A 25 lb radiator cap would help
Would a flathead take that? Would water pump seals leak for example? I don't know, I am asking. My understanding is that up to '37 they were not pressurised at all then they had a 4 lb cap, which is what I fitted. Happy to be corrected by someone though if I can use a higher pressure cap without problems.
Where is Pendine? I am guessing somewhere in the UK.
It is a long beach in a remote part of the UK about 40 minute drive from where I live. About 7 miles long with a gunnery test range at the end of it. Site of several land speed records including Malcolm Campbell's earlier Bluebird cars before he changed location and went to the US as his cars got faster.
Why are you running coolant for a drag and not just water?
Seeing as it all 'escaped' in an unplanned way I should have just used water but was intending to keep the water in the car longer term and so corrosion inhibitors would have been the reason. This event is more for the fun of it than any kind of trophies.
This is awesome, but someone needs to teach the VHRA what a checkered flag is for LMFAO.
It is/was the custom in the hot rod world to use a checkered flag at the start of a run as far as I am aware. Others can add to this I am sure. Here is a video from the US:
czcams.com/video/eB_np-Va6Mw/video.html
@@XenonJohnD Just because your friend jumps off a bridge, are you going to as well?
Nowhere is the automotive world is a checkered flag used at the starting line. The only time you ever see it being used is by people running events that don't know anything about racing. TROG is an excellent example of this, it is more about looking cool and vintage than going fast (checkered flag looks a lot cooler than a green flag).
But seriously do a little research on checkered flags, they have been around for almost 120 years and they are only used to signify the end of the race.
@@dddddyyn OK well first of all it is not a life and death decision as jumping off a bridge would be. I don't really care that much either way to be honest (about flags that is, jumping off bridges I would take more seriously). I wasn't around in the 50's so if any old timers want to chip in here be my guest :) I am not really the person you need to be arguing with about this as a complete newbie to pre-war cars of any type. Contact the VHRA maybe ?
@@XenonJohnD Wether life or death or not, stupid is stupid.
Don't really need anyone to chime in. Some simple research will show that the checkered flag is used at the finish of a race, not the start.
The only person arguing here is you. You replied to me trying to say it's traditional to use the checkered flag incorrectly.
Do you actually consider your car a prewar car? Because belly tank lakesters were not made until after the war when surplus tanks were available...
And seriously calling it a belly tank when it's just sheet metal bodywork is just sad. You really should call it a "belly tank style lakester" or "belly tank inspired design" because that is definitely not a belly tank lakester.
@@dddddyyn You are right. I am wrong. I am so stupid. You win your keyboard battle, I lose. I made an incorrect statement. I built a car though and you type words. A chequered flag is clearly used at a number of similar US events and I pointed that out. I live in the UK so am guided by what I see online of US events. They are all wrong and you are right. You must tell them they are stupid too, face to face would be best. They could then respond appropriately.
The engine and running gear of the car are all pre-war, as was the case with most early post war US hot rods and the belly tank variations, they used what they could get cheaply, mainly flathead Ford V8's. Therefore, yes, I had to learn all about pre-war Ford mechanical systems. You can buy fibreglass tank replicas from the US and there were a couple of real P38 ones for $20K each plus shipping. I could not afford that so made my own. These metalshaping skills are literally dying out and it is hard to even find someone who can teach you. You may not realise this but that is OK, I know you were just trying to be rude.
Have a go at making a smooth compound curved aluminium panel by hand. You will then actually know what you are talking about and your opinions on metalwork may then be worth something. You are entitled to have an opinion, that does not automatically mean it has any worth.
I also had a non-period correct firewall, non-period roll protection, old looking but actually modern helmet, gloves and non-period clothes. So many crimes.......
This is a fun event. You know, that thing called fun. Where people are happy. Nobody goes incredibly fast. It is not Bonneville salt flats.
Almost nobody in the UK I have spoken to knows what a belly tank is, even when attached to an aeroplane, let alone as a car, so bickering over details is pretty pointless. Many younger people look at me blank when I explain that fighters did not originally have enough range to escort the bombers all the way into Europe during the war, which is a bit tragic. They really do not know what I am talking about. I am not completely sure they even know the second world war happened in some cases.
A ridiculous roll cage!
If it rolls I prefer something that actually works, not just there for decoration or to minimally comply with the rules. A roll bar with at least one forward or rear diagonal strut is the minimum requirement for this event. I could have had one single hoop and a rearward diagonal mounted to ??. No convenient place to mount that diagonal bar, these rules generally assume you have a front engined car. This cage arrangement is actually easier for me as engine can then be dropped in and out with an engine hoist if needed with nothing running back over it. The tubing is also specified in the rules - seamless CDS.