Centre for Fantasy and the Fantastic
Centre for Fantasy and the Fantastic
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Why Do We Keep Killing Lucifer?
Why do we keep killing off Lucifer in contemporary fiction? What can the devil reveal about the way we view rebellion and tyranny? Watch to find out.
This video essay is part of an experiment to see how much interest there is in this type of content, so please let us know what you thought in the comments below!
Dr. Lucinda Holdsworth is a Research Assistant at the University of Glasgow, where she is a       member of the Centre for Fantasy and the Fantastic. Her research interests include satanic protest exegesis and moral panics in contemporary literature; ecohorror; comics studies; and religious fantasy. When not researching, Lucinda teaches English Literature and Theology at the University of Glasgow and the University of Strathclyde, and works as a freelance novel editor.
Music used:
"Lullaby (Nana)" from Blood Wedding, performed by Simone Kermes. Music by Hans Erik Philip.
czcams.com/video/8vPRDoEySz0/video.html&ab_channel=SimoneKermes-Topic
"Move on Up" by Curtis Mayfield.
czcams.com/video/zPEaydx_E8Y/video.html&ab_channel=CurtisMayfield-Topic
"Life is Beautiful" from Deadly Premonition. Music by Takuya Kobayashi.
czcams.com/video/rzvXBFwcyek/video.html&ab_channel=Angelio
"Masquerade Suite" by Aram Khachaturian.
czcams.com/video/fPp3Qh-GRqs/video.html&ab_channel=TheWickedNorth
"His Dark Materials" by Lucinda Holdsworth.
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Komentáře

  • @initspurestform1793

    Deadly Premonition

  • @redcapetimetraveler7688

    Lucinda has the same ethymology as Lucifer... ohohhhhhhhh 😁🤣😂🤣😈 are you inlighting us or making us to sign up a pact ? wahahahahahaha i just signed up my subscription ... i am all in

  • @The_Eno
    @The_Eno Před 3 dny

    It's not so simple. Lucifer is an attempt to re-direct stories about the Babylonian King who would create chaos in Mesopotamia; which in the bible palms that title onto the Angel of Song. In all dark Cycles an attempt to invert what sustains order is made through imitating older works with the addition of propaganda that inverts (in attempt to hide the chaos Babylon brought) the stories of beings like Tammuz who in times past where known to attempt to declare power over all the angels of the world. It has nothing to do with dad, as even the Arcadians remembered that Enlil was father to Enki. So there is no evidence, even among the Japanese court which indicates anything that substantiates this "against chief of their court premise". This premise of God as the Israelite king follows raiding tribes stories who believed that war on this earth would end when it was divided enough to be united by the most violent and brutal of all beings who could place fear into others. After gunpowder this changed. With the use of Tesla's technology being turned into an intelligence system and then with genetic enhancement and resurrection the funding to make most hit movies and shows carry this weaponized intent was acquired. Hence why this story replicates. When you study it further you will see the archetype they attempt to portray as enemy to Global Tyranny is Cernunnos.

  • @cabinessence_timely_hello

    This video poses the most retarded concept I've seen in my life. Sorry but being white or male or wtv progressive garbage you want to tell me doesn't make anyone powerful, and satanism is more about rejecting religion's talons and deities while accepting the good message it has to offer than any rebellious call for attention.

  • @catofculture8562
    @catofculture8562 Před 5 dny

    Why do we keep killing Lucifer? Very simple: He is the ultimate evil.

  • @njdevilsforlifewoohoo5533

    The funniest thing about the devil is that christians say that atheists believe in him/her. It’s them that believe in the devil. Atheists don’t believe in a god so by default don’t believe in a devil and vice versa. If someone believes in a dirty they automatically believe in the opposite. Also I personally see the devil as the good guy in the buybull. How many kills does they have in comparison?

  • @keiththorpe9571
    @keiththorpe9571 Před 9 dny

    What the retconning of Satan/The Devil/Lucifer demonstrates more than anything else (at least to my atheistic mind) is that throughout the entire history of Christianity...They've just been making it up as they go along.

  • @serpentious
    @serpentious Před 10 dny

    I really like your video, as a black creative I think the avoidance of Lucifer as a persom of colour is more nuanced, like regardless of what the supposed text says, even if it's a rebellious subversive text some people will still see it as reinforcing the old trope of a black or foreign person, or women as a tempestress. But I do think good stories can be told, I find it would be very tricky to walk through that minefield unharmed. Thank you for making this, Gaiman's Lucifer is my favourite take on the character, and this video helped me contextulise him more against history, so thank you.

  • @GiRR007
    @GiRR007 Před 11 dny

    Because he's the ultimate evil, the end.

  • @FurTheWorkers
    @FurTheWorkers Před 12 dny

    Small note, but the "Lucifer" or "Morningstar" in the Old Testament is explicitly stated to be a king of Babylon and not some divine creation. Morningstar is a condescending nickname god gives him to point out his pride. The morningstar is the last star to appear in the sky before the sun comes up (it's actually Venus). God is saying that he thinks the sun rises and the stars move for him alone.

  • @Pandaemoni
    @Pandaemoni Před 14 dny

    Thanks for this, this was great.

  • @Elora445
    @Elora445 Před 14 dny

    Lucifer is no angel, to start with. It was written about a real person, that's all. Satan, on the other hand, is one of the Christian god's angels. His advocate, more or less. The one whose job it is to question the god. Never does anything bad - unless it is because of the god's orders. I suppose it was just a matter of time before humans decided they were the same person. Because. Because humans will be humans. Probably thought Lucifer was a cool name. So nowadays they "are" the same person. Because people of the older ages decided so.

  • @Justin-g7n
    @Justin-g7n Před 15 dny

    Nice try Lucinda, or should i say Lucifer [pulls the mask off Scooby Doo style]... just being silly. I really enjoyed your video and would like to see more. In the bible, Lucifer is the con artist who will be WHOEVER he needs to be for for the purpose of his con. He goes by more than a single name. He's the freedom fighter who shows up in paradise to convince you you're oppressed. In Western cultures, most people can marry whoever they want, can vote, and have access to all their basic needs as well simply luxuries, yet our desires are endless and we're protesting in the streets holding starbucks cups... we're an easy target for such a Con Artist. The same was true for Eden. Lucifer is first mentioned in Isaiah 14:12. He was a failure of an angel who rebelled against God and wanted endlessly more than he needed. He's relateable in that way. Everyone has the capacity for failure, greed, entitlement, and justification fo our endless desires. Unfortunately he wallows in his failure and makes his kingdom in it. His voice is the SIREN SONG telling you that the way you feel is always right and your inner truth is never wrong... that you always deserve better. Unfortunately the ULTIMATE TRUTH doesn't masquerade and it doesn't tell you what you want to hear, and it's never sexy. At least it's the truth. (it can be found in jesus).

  • @newdivide9882
    @newdivide9882 Před 15 dny

    Because he’s incredibly evil and deserves it. And yes, Satan (The Adversary), Lucifer, The Accuser of the Brethren, The Dragon of Revelation, and the Serpent in the Garden are all the same fallen angel. All of those names come from the Bible. Pretty sure the original Greek word for Dragon actually is Serpent. So yeah, they’re the same And yes, his pride did lead to his fall, as mentioned in Isaiah. The idea that Lucifer as we know him came from random people instead of the Word of God is proven outright wrong just by reading the Bible

    • @Elora445
      @Elora445 Před 14 dny

      Are you sure? Where exactly does it say that all those are the same? Or is it just that people say it is so? Read it page from page instead of thinking you know what it says.

  • @GenerallyBananas
    @GenerallyBananas Před 15 dny

    Very interesting video, I'd love to see more

  • @phonkp
    @phonkp Před 17 dny

    Write more Black devils. Got it!

  • @pw8164
    @pw8164 Před 17 dny

    "Who Actually Is Lucifer?" No one. It's not a proper name, just a holdover latin word meaning "morning star" or "light-bearer" that the early english translators for some (no?) reason decided not to translate. It only appears in the single passage you mentioned, in which the subject of the poem is being metaphorically compared to the brightest star in the sky. The morning star is last the one still visible even once the sun has risen. In the bible the phrase is sometimes used in the context of praise or honor, other times, like the Isaiah passage, it describes the futility of rebellion--a prideful star who imagines it can outshine the sun. Obviously, the original hebrew/aramaic scriptures do not contain the word/name lucifer anywhere, as it does not exist in those languages. Moreover, to have one's name included in the sacred scriptures could be seen as a great honor to the ancients. To only ever refer to this character as "the satan", robs him of that honor. Also, you said something to the effect of "humanizing lucifer at all, just makes god a bully." To that, I'd offer this video czcams.com/video/0kfpO8Up7Ek/video.html which is an attempt at retelling the biblical story entirely from the satan's perspective. I found it interesting, as it's created by a page called Bible Animations (I can only assume they're christians) but definitely humanizes the character and his motivations in a way I'd never seen from christians before. Honestly, just nitpicking. Very cool video, I'd watch more!

  • @NelsonStJames
    @NelsonStJames Před 17 dny

    Hitler has probably supplanted Satan as the benchmark for demonization-by-comparison for some time now; at least in the West.

  • @sovobor7681
    @sovobor7681 Před 17 dny

    And then there is čert, or czech chort, fallen angels, who works as cop of God. He helps to people of good will and punishes bad ones.

  • @KatzePiano
    @KatzePiano Před 18 dny

    Great video! Really hope more of these are produced.

  • @ZBott
    @ZBott Před 19 dny

    Reminder to use Satan as a prosecutor, and stop making him a thirst trap. Though I'll need to avoid making it like Red Dwarf "The Inquisitor" episode. The devil should just leave when he gets defeated to prosecute someone else.

  • @Raz.C
    @Raz.C Před 19 dny

    Nb: The Old Testament says that Free Will is a gift that God gave to humans alone. The idea of Satan "rebelling against God," is an entirely fictional idea, even though the bible is a book of mostly fictional stories. But there are those who ignore objective reality and who deny the science that shows that many of these stories are fictional. These people ALSO ignore the incoherence of Satan rebelling against God, despite not having the Free Will to be able to do so.

    • @pw8164
      @pw8164 Před 17 dny

      Where do you think the Old Testament says that free will was reserved only for humans?

    • @newdivide9882
      @newdivide9882 Před 15 dny

      Where does the Bible say that free will was only given to humans? It’s been a while since I started from Genesis, but I don’t remember any verse like that. To be fair, I obviously don’t remember every verse ever written though. So where is that?

    • @jaheim_the_omnipotent4875
      @jaheim_the_omnipotent4875 Před 14 dny

      The book of watchers exist

    • @Auani_00
      @Auani_00 Před 12 dny

      1. Source 2. Fundamentalist Biblical literalism is fairly recent which ignores different historical and traditional interpretations. 3. Different Christian denominations interpret a scripture differently and literalism is not common in some denomnations as it is with others. 4. Culture, society, and technology change. Stories, regardless if they are fictional of real, are time capsules that reflect the specific society, place, and time. 5. There are different Abrahamic scriptures composed of different stories containing different interpretations. Some of these stories were translated from Greek to other languages. 6. The belief that Science and Religion are at odds comes from the Draper-White thesis written in the 19th century and largely dimissed for the Complexity Thesis. 7. The Conflict Thesis ignores the long history of religious men who were scientific scholars contributing to the evolving field of science. 8. The Science vs Religion belief only concentrates on Abrahamic religions while ignoring other religions that are excluded by its strict definition. 9. The mythology and evolution of Satan means the character is going to change frequently over time because societies and cultures have changed over a thousand years. To summarize, it's complex.

  • @Raz.C
    @Raz.C Před 19 dny

    Satan is a funny one, isn't he. Christians have created an imaginary enemy for themselves, diametrically opposed to their imaginary friend, to manufacture some imaginary "War in Heaven," for the added drama.

  • @pascalcwilson
    @pascalcwilson Před 20 dny

    This was a really neat video I hope you make more.

  • @lukailincic2411
    @lukailincic2411 Před 20 dny

    But the non-marginalised classes aren't actually being rebels like Byron, they're just consuming rebellious imagery and symbolism. I don't think it's easier to be a rebel if you're cis white and middle class, in fact in many ways it's more difficult and less likely. That good kid mentality gets ingrained into you real good. Besides, the dastardly aristocrat spirit is present and alive in many marginalised groups, especially around crime. You don't have to be a pure-blooded aristocrat to be "aristocratic" or dastardly. It's not that there isn't such a thing as "greater access to rebelliousness" in certain specific situations, but on the whole and at the present moment it's really not that simple. Capitalist material property can make you less rebellious due to the mechanism of its acquisition (which is hard work for the vast majority of people). Where I do see some significant difference is in how much rebellion is embraced, symbolised and ritualised by minorities as opposed to people with fewer marginalised identities. But I think the lower classes SHOULD ritualise it, SHOULD use those symbols, SHOULD embrace the margins. Stop yearning for inclusion. And leftist politics should also move beyond inclusion. Leftists I feel want to shield the already exposed marginalised from danger, but that's already serving the mechanism of assimilation into a larger economic system that we can't beat (because no revolutions are started without severe hunger).

  • @JustinThorLPs
    @JustinThorLPs Před 20 dny

    You're blind, ignorance just makes you the racist in the room.

  • @crutherfordmusic
    @crutherfordmusic Před 20 dny

    It's weird that you say that Lucifer isn't in the Bible, and then you quote the verse where he's in the Bible. And yes, the devil is the serpent in the garden of Eden. Revelation 20 (KJV) 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, Lucifer (satan) is the father of lies. All lies are of him. So for example, thinking that a man can be a woman is of the devil, because it is a lie. And sodomy also - that's the hole where poo comes out, not where the penis goes in.

  • @stratavosstuff7575
    @stratavosstuff7575 Před 20 dny

    I enjoyed this, it felt like the evolution of the art history videos from school

  • @markpaterson2053
    @markpaterson2053 Před 20 dny

    Great video! You earned my subscription. I LOVED the Lucifer comics; shame about the tv show, in which only his bar and his name are the same.

  • @markpaterson2053
    @markpaterson2053 Před 20 dny

    As you mentioned the homosexual element, I couldn't help thinking of the trans community; would they CANCEL the Devil for stealing their ideas, or something as nonsensical as that? The irony would...what?

  • @joemck74
    @joemck74 Před 20 dny

    Gods, I wish this dept had existed 30 years ago.

  • @magnus_lundgren
    @magnus_lundgren Před 20 dny

    This comment contains spoilers for the TV series Lucifer: * * * * * * There are several images used in the video from the TV series Lucifer, and while he is technically killed (well, killed again) in a later season it was not the end but part of his transformation. That transformation might have fitted the message of the video (becoming someone else, kind of, but not really as he doesn't change personality-wise when he becomes the new god), including the "bisexual but not really on the screen" part (going from only slightly hinted at, to showing men he is said to have had sex with). Leaving that out, while using images from the series, gives in my opinion a dishonest impression. Having a video of it's own diving into how "the devil" have been used as part of oppressing enemies and marginalized groups would probably have been more interesting to me, as while there are an overlap, I see it as a separate topic (and I also think it is a pity that topic becomes hidden under this title). So, with some tweaks, it could become a youtube channel that would interest me. At the moment, however, it is more "there was a few nuggets so I leave a thumbs-up, but not worth coming back to" for me.

  • @Nirakolov
    @Nirakolov Před 21 dnem

    pre-vid comment: IDK about Lucifer, but Satan makes sense. As "The Opposer" he would consider his job well done if he put everything in to it and was defeated

  • @jaclynsutherland4327
    @jaclynsutherland4327 Před 21 dnem

    This was fantastic and very interesting. I would love to see more videos like this from the Centre.

  • @krisnantoprayogosantoso4033

    Wait a minute... if Lucifer and the other Angels are God's children, then doesn't that mean they are brothers with Jesus Christ?

    • @1000clones
      @1000clones Před 21 dnem

      It’s a little complicated but the general idea is that Jesus is god in human form so I guess they’re his kids too. On the other hand Jesus does directly talk to god so a little of both maybe

    • @turtleanton6539
      @turtleanton6539 Před 20 dny

      Yeeh

    • @Universalbeing0
      @Universalbeing0 Před 19 dny

      Someone is asking the real questions here!

    • @pw8164
      @pw8164 Před 17 dny

      lol nah, cause humans are called God's children too. Christians have a whole idea about creating vs begetting, hence Jesus is the only "begotten" son of God. It's like having your own kid vs making up a bunch of characters to populate a world you invented. They may rightly call you "father", but it's not really the same.

  • @Ozarka0
    @Ozarka0 Před 22 dny

    Hold up, what????? Lucifer?????? THATS who you ask about? Not how often God is turned into a generic badguy???????

    • @turtleanton6539
      @turtleanton6539 Před 20 dny

      Not very

    • @Highschoolgiril
      @Highschoolgiril Před 20 dny

      Yeah, I do see God turned into a strict parent that is very restrictive. I’m Indian, and I’m from a Hindu family, and I also see that happening in Hinduism in Indian culture

    • @newdivide9882
      @newdivide9882 Před 15 dny

      Did you see the content warning in the beginning. Hating God is very typical of people who use buzzwords like that

    • @fernando.emanuel.pinheiro
      @fernando.emanuel.pinheiro Před 3 dny

      And Lucifer is evil because... Most movies never say why Lucifer is evil or a villain without a valid reason. It is bad writing.

  • @Darth_Bateman
    @Darth_Bateman Před 22 dny

    Me : Hello, I'm the Candy Man and I'm here to tell you about Shin Megami Tensei. You : But -a Who are we a-killing ,a -Candy-Man-a - Sama? Me : :)

  • @grisflyt
    @grisflyt Před 22 dny

    Here's the scoop on Satan by a Biblical scholar: "Most of our ideas about Satan are non-biblical" czcams.com/video/bMI9mzBsvEo/video.html Spoiler. Lucifer has nothing to do with Satan. Lucifer is a person. Not a demon, angel or anything of the sort. The serpent is also frequently thought of as Satan. The Bible's a mess. It's basically the history of mistranslations and misreadings.

  • @lazyfish7675
    @lazyfish7675 Před 24 dny

    Gotta love move on up 4:48

  • @amiraabdullah3508
    @amiraabdullah3508 Před 24 dny

    Wonderful video! Thank you for creating it and all the research that went into it! Lucifer has always been a figure of interest to me and I loved your exploration of it. Now, I feel like taking up the idea of writing a Lucifer who is accessible to those minorities XD I actually think I'll do it, can't speak of the quality though! Thanks again!

  • @jonahdonahue2930
    @jonahdonahue2930 Před 25 dny

    This was really well done! Thank you

  • @user-qe3zy7cv3c
    @user-qe3zy7cv3c Před 25 dny

    Incredible video!! Hope to see more from her!

  • @pokealien
    @pokealien Před 25 dny

    "TIME FOR A TONE SHIFT" Oh, cool. "Remember all those content warnings" Oh-

  • @danielbriggz
    @danielbriggz Před 25 dny

    Thank you for this video. I've been looking into how the devil is used in literature esp after reading Esther J Hamori's Gods and Monsters. Learning more about the misconceptions surrounding the devil or Satan has led me on a fun journey of finding where those conceptions come from. This was helpful and honestly fun to watch

    • @NightmareRex6
      @NightmareRex6 Před 19 dny

      like those that watch "lucifer" show and "hazbin hotel" eta and think lucifer is "good" and unable to tell apart the FICTINAL lucifer which is diffrent depending the FICTION he is in vs the non-fictinal lucifer. or the 7 deadly sins animie. i see hazbin hotel in analogy that "hell" is 2030-2050s earth. i see 7 deadly sins animie as the heros were MARKED by the satanic elite as "sins" as "carractor assasination" as can see the elites in 7 deadly sisn animei resemble the knights templar which became some the elites today (probbaly not garenteed).

  • @resistancepublishing
    @resistancepublishing Před 25 dny

    It’s good that Lucifer keeps dying. It symbolizes that humans must always kill/conquer their dark side

  • @GenghisDon1970
    @GenghisDon1970 Před 25 dny

    you need to leave time enough to read your flashed words...they are so fucking fast I cannot even catch them stopping the video FFS!

  • @annikalapudas9742
    @annikalapudas9742 Před 25 dny

    Definetely hopeful for more videos like this! Such an interesting, well researched and well articulated video. Thank you! :)

  • @brunocooke
    @brunocooke Před 25 dny

    I enjoyed this a LOT

  • @nehemiahsomers4141
    @nehemiahsomers4141 Před 26 dny

    Commenting for the algorithm, really great video!

  • @riccardozanoni2531
    @riccardozanoni2531 Před 26 dny

    Not having von Stuck's lucifer in the part about iconography was a surprise. Speaking of sexy satans, that one is pretty high on the list. 😜 Great video nonetheless!