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Thank you for sharing. He was a great teacher 🙏

Wild! Well done!

Amazing!

Oh Leslie (if I may call you Leslie, honored teacher) thank you for making this. Being real. Sat. Thank you for you

Thank you for sharing this, so insightful and yet simple

50 degrees of cervical axial rotation in each direction, from neutral; hence ~100 degrees of range of motion total?

Yes, thank you for sharing these stories! I too was touched by Rama's presence and friendship where I lived in Tyler, Texas. She made each of us feel we were seen and heard. Thankfully, early in 2020, I had the pleasure to facilitate interviews with Rama, separately and with and her husband Max at the Unity Church of Tyler. This was a celebration of their lives separately and together along with Max's retirement after 50 years in the Unity Ministry. From what I saw and heard, Rama's life-long journey and love of yoga and her teachers and students was inseparable and entwined with Max's life-long journey and love of Unity and his teachers and students. Aum, Shanti, Shanti, Shanti...

Haha, more straight-talking sense from Leslie Kaminoff

Our Rama. I feel her in every breath I take, every class I teach, my own practice steeped in her wisdom.

Thank you for sharing this!

Good video out of myown experience as a man, a gestalttherapist and yogateacher in the tradition of TKV Desikachar.

I understand your point of view but disagree with the logic of your argument. The people you describe on the beach wearing clothing as protection chose to place their trust in the clothing manufacturer. What if, instead of protecting their skin the clothing intensified the suns rays? Would you blame the wearers of the cloth or the manufacturers for representing their product falsely? The Jivamukti stance on protecting animals and creating a rule bound organization could appear to someone coming from an unkind, rule-less background to be a warm, protective shield from a threatening environment. It’s not the victim’s fault. Just because one person can recover and rise above or make better choices doesn’t mean that’s the standard we should expect of everyone.

Thank you for being so brave to share your point of view. I think you are a great educator.

Good work, Leslie. Sound judgement and glad to see someone speak up to what goes on. Viveka

couldn't agree with you more. People still want to control others even if they are yogis.

There are studies that clearly show that people who´ve been victims of abuse are more likely to find themselves in abusive situations again. We gravitate towards what is familiar - even if dysfunctional. Former victims have a harder time realizing what their own boundaries are as well as how to act if someone should infringe upon them. Anyone who is more informed on the subject knows that. I find it odd that one should even feel the need to comment on the situation if not with more care, nuanced thinking and humbleness.

I read the book 2 or three times. Some Points I really like. But he "spoke" about yoga without knowing really the Tradition of T.K.V. Desikachar and if he would have known it he would have written that book in a more different way! I´m educated in Shivananda-Yoga as part of my 5 year longing education to a gestalt-therapist, in Iyengar-Yoga in a nearly 3 years longing education and in the Tradition of T.K.V. Desikachar in a 5 years longing education in teaching yoga in grpoups and after that 2 years to teach it face to face for a single person. Sorry for my bad english, hope you understand. I have the book of Leslie Kaminoff "Yoga anatomie" too and let me say some critical words too: Most of the asana he discribed are rather not good for teaching in Groups and rather not good for yoga-therapy. For me it´s better too teach rather easy "asana" because I take Yogasutra very serious and what Patanjali told us in different sutras about the QUALITY a practise should have if you will speak about "asana". I reduced asanas more and more in the last 15 years and came in contact with the qualities which are discribed in 2.46 and other sutras.

cool story bro

Very sound discussion. thank you.

What I don't get in this argument here - the student knew the deal and willingly out herself through an abusive relationship cause apparently she needed the lesson or there was no abuse and it was a consenting loving relationship that the student because of her not having learned her lessons did not get. It seems rather forced analogy between the person w a visible skin disease and a person that has experienced abuse in the past. Do we live in a world where one would have automatically understood the effect of abuse and the process of coercion and the post abuse dynamics of abuse on our psychology and needs and hence could freely make other choices. And is there perhaps better ways to learn "the lessons" besides being smashed through some more abuse. Should lessons involve such potentially damaging methods. If we are so aware of the invisible why do we bother w yoga - we need no help in removing darkness and we reside in enlightenment. I don't know who did what but in unequal power relationships the possibility for abuse is painfully present as we can see from all over the place today. And the ability of those without the power to exercise choice is not an excuse for the transgression of trust.

Leslie- I'm really saddened you aren't open to a well written critique of some of your comments as the article did. The worst comment you make in this video was your opinion that her horror at seeing her teacher/ guru taking advantage of another student was about her being jealous that she wasn't "special". What I and many others read in her quote was that moment when she went from feeling she ALONE was being taken advantage of it (where she could place blame on herself), to seeing those same coercive techniques being used against others. That specialness that was cultivated in everything from her name to the kinds of physical touch she was given acted as a way to separate her from others and not speak up. Many that are abused first speak out after seeing that the abuse they have suffered has also been suffered by others around them. Meanwhile you took this to somehow be about jealousy and being the "special" one in a purely selfish manner. I would also rethink your approach to labeling those who were victimized and are speaking/ acting out for their and their fellow humans rights as people with "victim mentality". That mentality is what brought about many great civil rights movements and have clamped down on the sex abuse scandals in the catholic church amongst other places. Knowing the coercive and highly "radical" environment that you describe Jivamukti as having- wouldn't the founders want to be MORE thorough in making sure abuses, humiliation, and coercion were not there? Instead of listening to this student, everyone involved seems to want to silence and humiliate her further. This seems to be about power rather than understanding or standing up for human dignity. I would hope you are more open to relooking at how your own experiences ( as opposed to just everyone else's) have colored your perception of how this woman was treated by her teacher/ guru and company.

If you do anything too much or wrong it can wreck your body

Hell yes

You are right that rules do not prevent bad behavior. Laws against graffiti and vandalism make the actions seductive as well; transgressive behavior gives a rush -- so much so that forms of tantric philosophy and practice 'spiritualized' transgressive behavior. Laws do not prevent law-breaking. That's pretty much self-evident throughout the history of mankind. Laws and rules DO define, however, as clearly as possible in the context of situations that they cover WHAT the wrong behavior IS (such as in workplace sexual harassment, which as we also know from ongoing experience is not easy, but nevertheless necessary because abuses undeniably take place). This is in order to assign punishment that serves both as a deterrent to such behavior (knowing that there is NO unfailing deterrent to bad behavior, and acknowledging the reality of the attractions of transgressive behavior) AND to provide some measure of justice and/or compensation to the victim. Rules are necessary to provide clarity. And they are not enough. Anyone going into the teaching of yoga needs not just rules but an honest counseling and discussion of the risks of the public profession that they are entering into you. This doesn't mean just laying out the rules, but rather making the person aware of the dynamic they are entering into: one which threatens not just harm to vulnerable students, but harm to themselves, beyond even the legal consequences. You acknowledge that somewhat in acknowledging the lessons you learned from past experience (though it might have been nice to acknowledge that you were not the only one involved in or affected by this/these learning experiences, whatever they were). These things rarely if ever end well for all parties involved. Maybe as a yoga educator, that can be an important component in what you emphasize. But for a host of reasons, you can't jettison rules just because they have the unintended consequence of attracting transgressive behavior among some. That overlooks entirely any sense of justice due to those who are harmed by that behavior. And when it comes to acknowledging the harm done, your abstract handling of the power of 'choice' being exercised by the person you resist calling the 'victim' (again, because the term encourages irresponsible behavior on the part of some), you once again reinforce the perception that you truly don't understand the situation of those who are vulnerable to harm through manipulation, gas-lighting, etc., which is all too typical and rampant among sociopaths in all walks of life when any power differential is present. Your example of genetic susceptibility to melanoma is wildly off the mark in this respect. I understand your resistance to walking back your comments on personal responsibility in such situations. At the same time, you might contemplate whether you might possibly suffer from some blind spots on this topic, perhaps through your ideology, or from the fact that you apparently have had some experience as a transgressor but not as a victim. (transgressors resist calling the person on whom they practice their transgressions a 'victim.' Goes with the territory.) I may indeed be getting it very wrong on this point of your previous experiences, but to be fair, you don't offer much clarity on what you're talking about, so we're left to surmise. One suggestion that will probably go against the grain for you: when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

There are facts and there is perception. Maybe only the two women know the facts which ironically are different for each of them. What is interesting is the opinions of the other people involved and commenting. They are colored by past experience or self preservation and in the case of Gannon and Life, maybe delusion as well. The veil of ignorance lies over us no matter how much yoga we think we practice. I continue to find that a source for endless commentary. If you haven't been involved with the studio for well over a dozen years it seems you were called on to raise the profile of the piece. And it worked. They have you on the defensive and I know that makes for sleepless nights. You are right about the complicity of all involved. Action reaction action reaction. Reminding me less of a yoga problem than the bigger problem of being a human on the planet these days. hashtag election and anarchy 2016. It's the days of Mad Max. Apologize for nothing is my advice. I respect you for speaking your mind. If they tear you to pieces it's because they have elevated you. Perhaps the key word for this moment is relationship. Let everyone make of that what they will. There will be no consensus. So be it.

interesting...

I think the majority of yoga teachers/ instructors hated that article cause it points out some truths that they want to deny. Contrarily to other professionals that are into activities that involves stretching, strengthening and balance training, the yoga community always try to sell the idea that yoga is completely harmless. Unfortunately that's a myth and it even breaks basic classical mechanics concepts, including Newton's laws. Denying that only confirms the lack of knowledge one has about human Anatomy, Biomechanics and Pathokinesiology. I practiced yoga for a few years and I saw people hurting themselves. I'm also a physical therapist and I treated people with injuries from different origins including yoga.

There is a risk of injury with any exercise regimen and any doctor will tell you that the benefits of regular exercise are really not understood as of yet; the results though are noticeable and people feel better.

Have you read the book yet?

big bullshit

@lwhitakerpsych sorry if the capital letters are a bit "disturbing":)...I kind of like them, like for a change, and maybe the whole yoga-wrecker-story being so fascinating...it's like caboong boossshh........

@lwhitakerpsych I WENT WAY OUT THERE WATCHING SOME CRAZY CZcams VIDEOS ON THE ILLUMINATI AND NWO. DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE IN THAT STUFF? I WAS QUITE INNOCENT, AND WAS A BIT CHOCKED AS I WENT FURTHER WITH THE CZcams "RESEARCH", I FELT I TOTAL DISBELIEF WITH EVERYTHING I BELIEVED IN, AND HAD TO TAKE TIME TO RECONSIDER AND RESTRUCTURE MY LIVING. NOW, I'M KIND OF IN THE SAME PLACE I WAS IN BEFORE. I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT CONSCIOUSNESS, BUT I FELT EVIL WAS EVERYWHERE. WHAT DO YOU THINK?

REALLY, YOGA CAN WRECK YOUR BODY?!! WELL, THEN I'LL HAVE TO QUIT EXCERCING EVERYDAY. I WAS FILLING A BIT MOIST AND FLLEXIBLE IN MY SPINAL CORD AND MY NERVOUS SYSTEM TO THE POINT I FELT FOR DOING YOGA EVERYDAY, SIMPLY BECAUSE IT FELT SOOO GOOD. ON THE OTHER HAND, SO DOES MARIHUANA IN THE BEGGINING, NOT THAT I DO ILLEGAL STUFF. WOW, MAYBE YOGA WILL BE ILLIGAL?!

good except the last part about him speaking about sanskrit...he obviously hasnt studied sanskrit or traditional texts.

Thanks for both your videos. I recently gotten into yoga and absolutely love it and feel amazing results. I agree the with the misconception and understanding of yoga. It's important to provide the correct knowledge and awareness.

Thx!

Im interested in the book fo shizzle

Coming from the Pilates community, this video and part 2 are BRILLIANT! Thank you for pointing out the difference between asana practice and yoga practice, just as we have the difference between Pilates as "just exercise" (where everyone does the same exercises in a group) vs. a method that is built around an individual's capabilities and needs. The Guitar Hero analogy summed it up... who's going to tell the truth when the industries need their respective businesses to boom? Cheers!

Yoga improves body functioning therefore you wont need drugs, that hurts their industry, that's why they find the apropiate words in their stupid scientist vocabulary to destroy what is good for the human body without doctors.

As a bodyworker, I sometimes see clients who have injured themselves while "doing" yoga. This is due to 2 main reasons 1) pushing themselves to achieve (either against themselves or another) - sometimes your body will not go there that day (or ever, for some bodies) or 2) lack of training wherein they enter, exit, or hold the pose incorrectly (in a way that can injure). No exercise is harm-free if done mindlessly or without proper training, warm-up or equipment (where equipment is needed).

yoga anatomy is topseller now

Perhaps the article should have been named "how you can wreck your body with asana practice." Of course you can. I hurt myself quite a bit with ambitious practice. People do it all the time. Those injuries were valuable lessons in attention. Yoga is dangerous when people follow authority blindly and that happen a lot in the yoga community.

fantastic response

Thank you for posting this Leslie!

Here, here Leslie, I couldn't have put it better. I got more emails from friends and students bringing my attention to the article. It was a brilliant marketing idea but who is going to buy it; not any yogi I know. Hummmm

This is a great response to the NYT article. I agree with the point made about how Modern Yoga (postural yoga) has shifted a lot of emphasis onto certain forms (asana) by giving separate names to these forms, thereby objectifying these things from the person, as if they can be identified as something separate. However, the correct way to move is the way that the person already moves, in order to improve mobility. Not to copy something other.