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Have you ever searched EGW's writings for her usage of the word "trinity"? Raised a Methodist, EGW was obviously familiar with the "trinity" and her own usage of the "trinity" in her writings essentially refuses your entire podcast! Much of what you quote are apologists who have a trinitarian lean and very little is quote from EGW's usage of the word "trinity". I suggest you look it up because its a short study!!

What's with all the dings in the background?

Many people around the world believe in the HOLLYWOOD lie and interpretation of the ANTICHRIST like illustrated in this video. What the holy scriptures really say: 1 John 2:18 Young children, it is the last hour, and just as you have heard that the ANTICHRIST is coming, even now many ANTICHRISTS have appeared, from which fact we know that it is the last hour. 1 John 2:22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the ANTICHRIST, the one who denies the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the ANTICHRIST. 1 John 4:3 But every inspired statement that does not acknowledge Jesus does not originate with God. Furthermore, this is the ANTICHRIST'S inspired statement that you have heard was coming, and now it is already in the world

Jesus is the only begotten Son of God TRULY, not metaphorically. The metaphor is the omega of apostasy that denies the Son. …Of a truth thou art the Son of God. Matthew 14:33 …Truly this man was the Son of God. Mark 15:39 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 1 John 2:22-23

He raises a great point though fellas. This movement makes some bold statements about being the “remnant” to call the world back to “Apostolic Christianity.” It’s not that you have to be theologically pure for God to use you. But if you make those claims about your movement, you better at least have the basics correct. That’s the point being made.

Hello, I was introduced to SDA in my early 20’s. Prior to that, I had never heard such in depth teachings from the bible and practical instructions from EGW. I observed how some people exalted her writings to the same level of authority as the bible, some did not take context into consideration and others seemed to have a balanced understanding of how to interpret her writings. Im 36 years of age now, and have heard many SDA’s discourage reading her material because of plagiarism, racism, hypocrisy, etc. However, for me, the wealth i’ve found from Steps to Christ, Desire of Ages, Mind,Character&Personality, devotionals and others are unparalleled in my spiritual growth. THANK YOU for taking the time to help me understand this history more and overcome the arguments against her influence.

Sorry, there is a difference between being imperfect and explicitly denying fundamental truths about God known and affirmed for many centuries. Does God really use those who deny who he is? I wish you guys would consider a proper debate/discussion with Miles.

Nice episod!

It’s Interesting. I would like to become an Adventist in Future

Thank God we don’t have to be theologically perfect to partner with God.

Yes love this perspective!

Have you professors, addressed the anti-trinitarian view of Ingor Sorke, formerly from Southwesren Adventist University?

We have access to tampered writings… the authenticity of anything that comes out of the vault for the past several decades is highly questionable

Did the apostles have a perfect understanding of the ministry of Jesus before His death? Did He still use them mightily? Never underestimate a man's ability to misunderstand you when his paycheck depends on that misunderstanding!

Interesting side note: I know of an Adventist congregation that now meets in what was once a nudist club. When the club went broke, they bought it and converted it into a church building.

The problem with the Catholic Church is not the trinity. The problem is that they turned it into a creed and a test for heretics.

There seems to be two main ideas of the trinity. One is that there are three distinct persons/beings (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) but they're one in, for example, nature and purpose, and that they all have existed forever. This is what the current seventh day adventist church believes according to their fundamental beliefs statement. The other idea is that there is one God and He plays three different roles: Father, Son, and holy spirit. Then there are some anti/non-trinitarians. like myself, who believe that there's only the Father and Son. The holy spirit is the omnipresence of the Father and Son. How you know if the bible is referring to the Father or Son depends on context. The adventists pioneers were anti-trinitarian. If you read the first chapter of Patriarchs and Prophets, EGW talks a lot about how there's just the Father and Son. If the word Godhead is just another word for trinity, Romans 1:20 says we can understand the Godhead by the visible things He has made. In Genesis 1, God said let us make man in our image....male and female created He them. God only made two, not three, people at creation: Adam and Eve. I think the creation of Adam and Eve is supposed to represent the the Father and Son. I think Adam represents God the Father and Eve represents Jesus. Jesus literally came from the Father (begotten). Eve came from Adam. Although Jesus came from the Father, everything was created through Jesus (and we get eternal life through Him). Although Eve came from Adam, human life comes from women. Jesus has two natures: divine and human. Eve (and all women) can be called man and woman. The head of Christ is God. The head of the woman (wife) is the man (husband). The great controversy is between Christ and Satan. Satan was jealous of Christ's position. But we are told that only Christ can be in that position because He is the literal, begotten Son of God. Satan has been disputing the sonship of Christ forever. The trinity doctrine denies the sonship of Christ. A lot of Christians believe that Jesus is just a metaphorical Son. But if that was true, then Satan has every right to Christ's position. “A complete offering has been made; for “God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son,”- not a son by creation, as were the angels, nor a son by adoption, as is the forgiven sinner, but a Son begotten in the express image of the Father’s person, and in all the brightness of his majesty and glory, one equal with God in authority, dignity, and divine perfection.” {ST May 30, 1895 par. 3} "Christ was the only begotten Son of God, and Lucifer, that glorious angel, got up a warfare over the matter, until he had to be thrust down to the earth." (25 LTMs, MS 86, 1910, par. 29) I think when EGW talks about the omega of deadly hereses she is talking about the trinity doctrine.

Jews did not invent the Sabbath. HaShem commanded it

I'd be interested about the references in "Perfection the Impossible Possibility" what the ratio was in Mervin Maxwell's section. He, like his brother Graham, saw the root problem, the very definition of sin and God's response towards it very differently than Douglas and LaRondelle. So much so that they wouldn't even have put themselves in the same ballpark. To quote Graham: "they build their theology on the devout belief that in the beginning God said 'love and obey me or I'll destroy you'. Edit was to correct Douglas, not Davis.

Great job telling the stories of the people & the movement. Also, I love your intro with C.D. Brooks, he was truly exceptional & monumental to spreading The Word of The Lord!

No, what it should make you do is go back to the true flock that was in the right hand of the father before it was scattered by the wolves of satan.

Hello Matthew, I've been enjoying your shorts and your inputs on SDA Q&A. If you have the chance, would you be willing to look into the work of Graham Maxwell? He was a professor at PUC and then head of the theology department at Loma Linda. There's legend surrounding his diligent study and understanding of EGW including puting Adventism in a good light to skeptics during his time at the Chicago theological seminary, the premier theological and scientific university at the time as well as to a Lutheran congregation im SoCal. An avid supporter of EGW, he also wrote multiple books specifically making her points without having to quote her and using scripture alone. He also had opposition from within when another head of theology from Andrew's was quoted in Spectrum saying of him and Jack Provoncha that they were "teaching the omega of apostasy to an entire generation of dental and medical students". Maxwell was part of starting what turned into the ADL, which went in a different direction after he left. As well, he wrote his PHD dissertation on Romans which led to him writing the SDA Bible commentary on Romans. His insights and broad understanding of EGW set right what was the legalistic, forensic understanding of Adventism that I grew up with. He is what I would define as a "real Adventist" and, in fact, is the only reason that I am still an Adventist today. More over though, it was through his work that I came to know God as a trustworthy Father calling us to friendship rather than a demanding, unforgiving tyrant. Thanks for your consideration.

Many members were not giving up buying new jewellery

I don't think it's a cult. Plus they didn't mention how it was a cult besides the vocabulary

The trinity is a 100% false catholic manufactured doctrine. Satan was the author of the three god concept. Babylon had 3 gods hence, the name 'mystery babylon" aka "mystery trinity" Satan the 3rd in charge in heaven wanted to be "like the most high" Isaiah 14:12-14 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. In order to believe the trinity idea you have to deny that Jesus is the Son of God. Which by the way the SDA church does! What an abomination for it is the antichrist. - 3 gods -co equal -co eternal The official SDA church along all Christendom that accept the catholic churches teaching of the trinity doctrine THEY DO NOT BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS THE LITERAL SON OF GOD!! Quote below from the SDA Church: www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/materials/a-question-of-sonship/ SDA CHURCH STATEMENT....... "There is no biblical support for the eternal generation of the Son from the Father. The Son came from God but was not generated by Him. Fifth, the father-son image cannot be literally applied to the divine Father-Son relationship within the Godhead. The Son is not the natural, literal Son of the Father. " What did God say ? "this is MY SON in Whom i am well pleased" ( The word "Godhead" simply means divine. It should read "GodHood" It does not mean a totem pole with 3 heads on it!) 1 John 2:22 Whoever denies the Father and the Son is the antichrist. Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This one is the Antichrist, ... What did Satan say to Jesus when he tempted Jesus?? "if you are the Son of God". Satan questioned this reality twice! Demons recognize Jesus As The Son of God, And Submit To His Authority Over Them Matthew 8:28-30 28 And He having come to the other side, to the country of the Gadarenes, two men being demon-possessed met Him, coming out of the tombs. They were very violent, so that no one was strong-enough to pass through that way. 29 And behold- they cried-out, saying, “What do we have to do with You, Son of God? Did You come here to torment us before the time?” The Pompous words against the most high is Satan declaring himself to be "like the most High" Isaiah 14:14. Satan wanted to be "Like the Most High" Who is like the Most High? It is Jesus who is like the Most High. Satan wanted to be worshipped. His deception is to get all mankind to accept a three in one god concept.....exactly what he did in heaven. Many people have major cognitive dissonance when it comes to evaluating the lies about the trinity. It really is hard to believe!! That is why the Catholic church calls the trinity a "MYSTERY" so that it deactivates your God given critical thinking and makes you think that you cannot understand The Father and Son relationship. But this is a question of Truth or Lies about God or Life and Death. Revelation 17: 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY , Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth. 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. The number one trinity lie is that Jesus cannot be divine if He was created!! But Jesus was not created He was begotten of the Father. Read Proverbs 8 It talks about Wisdom and that wisdom is personified in the Son of God, Jesus. It is no coincidence Babylon is called "mystery babylon". Because she also calls God a "mystery" Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. Proverbs 16:18. Satan fell because of his ambition to be equal with God. He desired to enter into the divine counsels and purposes, from which he was excluded by his own inability, as a created being, to comprehend the wisdom of the Infinite One. It was this ambitious pride that led to his rebellion, and by the same means he seeks to cause the ruin of man.8Testimonies for the Church 5:702. The Jewish nation obsessed over the Sabbath and failed to accept Jesus as the Son of God , similarly, the modern Church is focussing on the Sabbath as the last days issue and are rejecting the acceptance of the ONE TRUE GOD. Pray to the Father through the Son. judgmenthour.org/. www.revelationwithdaniel.com/ EG White Quote: “Your ideas of the two subjects you mention do not harmonize with the light which God has given me. The nature of the Holy Spirit is a mystery not clearly revealed, and you will never be able to explain it to others because the Lord has not revealed it to you. You may gather together scriptures and put your construction upon them, but the application is not correct.… It is not essential for you to know and be able to define just what the Holy Spirit is. Christ tells us that the Holy Spirit is the Comforter, and the Comforter is the Holy Ghost, ‘the Spirit of truth, which the Father shall send in My name.’ ‘I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him: but ye know Him, for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you’ [John 14:16, 17]. This refers to the omnipresence of the Spirit of Christ, called the Comforter.… There are many mysteries which I do not seek to understand or to explain; they are too high for me, and too high for you. On some of these points, silence is golden.… I hope that you will seek to be in harmony with the body.… You need to come into harmony with your brethren.” (Ellen White, June 11, 1891, Manuscript Releases, vol. 14, pp. 175-180) Q} According to Ellen White, who is the Comforter? “The Saviour is our Comforter. This I have proved Him to be.” (Ellen White, Manuscript Releases, vol. 8, p. 49) “The nights are long and painful, but Jesus is my Comforter and my Hope.” (Ellen White, Manuscript Releases, vol. 19, p. 296) “Christ is everything to those who receive Him. He is their Comforter, their safety, their healthfulness. Apart from Christ there is no light at all.” (Ellen White, Manuscript Releases, vol. 21, p. 372) “There is no comforter like Christ, so tender and so true. He is touched with the feeling of our infirmities. His Spirit speaks to the heart.… The influence of the Holy Spirit is the life of Christ in the soul.” (Ellen White, Review and Herald, October 26, 1897) “Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the Third Person of the Godhead, who would come with no modified energy, but in the fullness of divine power.… Christ has given His Spirit as a divine power to overcome all hereditary and cultivated tendencies to evil, and to impress His own character upon His church.” (Ellen White, Desire of Ages, p. 671) Note: Ellen White used the words “third person of the Godhead”. This must be understood in the context and language of her time. And with the words used around her quotes. Christ is that Spirit (John 14:18, 2 Cor 3:17). But He is obviously “Another Comforter”. This is what Ellen White says. “Cumbered with humanity, Christ could not be in every place personally; therefore it was altogether for their advantage that He should leave them, go to His father, and send the Holy Spirit to be His successor on earth. The Holy Spirit is Himself divested of the personality of humanity and independent thereof. He would represent Himself as present in all places by His Holy Spirit, as the Omnipresent.” (Ellen White, Manuscript Releases, vol. 14, pp. 23, 24; written February 18 and 19, 1895) The word “person” can also be understood to refer to manifestation. The word “Godhead” means divinity. The meaning of the saying can be understood as the “third manifestation of divinity (the Godhead)”. The term “God” does not mean “Godhead”. The Bible tells us that God has a Godhead. “His…Godhead.” (Romans 1:20). He is singular, one being; and He has a “Godhead”. He is the Father, and He is well pleased that in His Son should all the fullness of His Godhead (divinity) dwell. (Colossians 2:9) Note: He is represented by the Holy Spirit, which is Christ in you, Christ in the angels, it is Jesus Christ Himself. Not a third divine holy spirit being that is a co-equal with the Father and Son. Ellen White said the Holy Spirit is Christ Himself, divested (stripped) of humanity. “Every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ came in the flesh is the ‘Spirit of truth'” (1 John 4:1-6). “He [Jesus] would represent Himself by His Holy Spirit.” She did not say that he was another being. She said person. And the word person was used in a much different way. The intent of the word is “personality” or “presence” or “power.” And the Spirit is “another” different personality of the Godhead. But it is none other than Christ in you Himself. Not a literal being possessing you but it is Christ in you. Let us go with the weight of evidence. He represents Himself. John 14:18 “I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.” On June 11, 1891, Ellen White wrote to Brother Chapman in regard to his belief that the Holy Spirit is a separate being from Christ, namely, the angel Gabriel. She wrote, in part:

POPULAR ARGUMENTS FOR THE TRINITY ADDRESSED The Bible teaches that there are three powers in heaven: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. But it did not say that together, they are the one true God, or that they are co-equal. The concept of God as a Trinity has been prevalent in pagan religions and cultures but entirely absent from the religion of ancient Israel, the apostolic religion and even the religion of later pioneers such as James White, Joseph Bates, J. N. Andrews, J. N. Loughborough, J. H. Waggoner, and others. The Seventh-day Adventist church requires that persons wishing to become members make a vow to believe in "one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three coeternal Persons.” whereas the Bible does not explicitly teach that. The previous vow that persons took prior to 1980 was belief in "God the Father, in His Son Jesus Christ and in the Holy Spirit", which the Bible clearly teaches. The church has not allowed views like those of the pioneers to be expressed in the church and has disfellowshipped or sidelined those who hold similar beliefs as the pioneers on this matter. The church then accuses those very persons whom they forced out of the church and who then operate outside of the church, of causing division or calling people out of the church. Is that fair? Or is it a repeat of Ahab’s accusation against Elijah? A few of the popular arguments for the Trinity are now addressed below. 1. Assertion: SDA pioneers only objected to the Catholic version of the Trinity. Response: The pioneers of Seventh-day Adventism fully understood the doctrine of the Trinity and rejected it as error. Later, some persons such as John Harvey Kellogg and S. N. Haskel spoke favourably of the Trinity but earlier pioneers who Ellen White described as laying the foundations of our faith consistently objected to the Trinity. There is a common definition of the Trinity that is shared by all Trinitarians, whether Catholic or otherwise, even though explained differently by various bodies. This definition as given in the dictionary is that the one God of scripture is three co-equal persons. The SDA Church expresses its trinitarian belief that “There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three coeternal Persons.” (SDA Fundamental Beliefs number 2). The definition of who is Catholic, as given in the Edict of Thessalonica expresses the same idea as follows: “let us believe in the one deity of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, in equal majesty and in a holy Trinity. We authorize the followers of this law to assume the title of Catholic Christians; but as for the others, since, in our judgment they are foolish madmen, we decree that they shall be branded with the ignominious name of heretics” (Edict of Thessalonica issued 380 AD). This definition of who is Catholic and who is heretic was used as the basis for persecuting God’s people during the dark ages and continues to define what is considered Christian orthodoxy by the World Council of Churches (WCC). The Basis of the WCC speaks of “one God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.” (Basis of the WCC, adopted by the Third Assembly (New Delhi 1961). The Bible teaches otherwise, as Jesus, in praying, stated that the one true God is His Father - “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” (John 17:3). 2. Assertion: The Hebrew word for “one” that describes God really means “united”. Response: The Bible says that God is one (echad). The word echad is the first counting number in Hebrew, as with the numeral one. In other places of the Bible God is described using similar words such as “only” (quoted above in Jesus’s prayer), “none else”, “no other”, “He”, “none like me”. The Jews themselves, in whose language the word echad is used to describe God, understood it to mean one individual. The one God (one supreme Being) of the Bible is Jesus’s Father - “For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named” (Eph. 3:14, 15). The Father has no co-equals. He is “the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see” (1 Tim. 6:15, 16). There aren’t three supreme beings, only One. All other beings are subject to Him. Another word that Trinitarians appeal to is Elohim, where God (Elohim) said “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness” (Gen. 1:26). They assume that God (Elohim) is three persons. The Bible does not say that. Ellen White explains, “I saw that when God said to his SON, Let us make man in our image, Satan was jealous of JESUS.” (Ellen G. White, Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 1, pp. 17, 18). God (the Father of Christ) was speaking to His Son only. His Son is “the express image of His person” (Heb. 1:3). Ellen White speaks again explicitly in the following words: “The Sovereign of the universe was not alone in His work of beneficence. He had an associate - a co-worker who could appreciate His purposes”. “Christ, the Word, the only begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father - one in nature, in character, in purpose - the only being that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God.” (E. G. White, Patriarchs and Prophets, p. 34). 3. Assertion: Jesus is co-equal with the Father Response: Jesus never claimed full equality with God, His Father, at any point in His existence. Before He came to earth, His Father anointed and appointed Him - “Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.” (Heb. 1:9; see also verse 2). While He was on earth, He said “my Father is greater than I” (John 14:28). After sin is finished, He will still be subject to His Father - “And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.” (1 Cor. 15:28). 4. Assertion: The Holy Spirit is co-equal with the Father Response: The Bible does not speak anywhere of a third God-Being who has the image or likeness of God or “the similitude of God.” (James 3:9). There is no denying that the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, sent at Pentecost is a person - only not a God-being to be worshipped. Like the Angel of Revelation 18, the Comforter carries out a work of worldwide extent and is aided by other heavenly beings. Ellen G. White describing the latter rain speaks of a mighty angel from heaven being sent to do this work and further said, "Angels were sent to aid the mighty angel from heaven" (Ellen. G. White, Story of Redemption, p. 399). The language of John 14-16 speaks of someone whom Jesus would ask the Father to send. That Person would not speak of himself but would speak only what He hears and would bring back to the minds of the disciples the things that Jesus would have told them - “he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak” (John 16:13). The three powers of heaven are God, Christ, and angels. There are many such references; for example: “I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things” (1 Tim. 5:21). These are the same ones who were present at the creation - “Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? …. When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?” (Job 38:4-7). Again, “Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne” (Rev.1:4). These seven spirits are later described as “seven lamps of fire” (Rev. 4:5) and as “the seven angels which stood before God” (Rev. 8:2). This is consistent with the Hebrew word ruach and the Greek word pneuma that are translated in the Bible as spirit. These words are also translated spirits, thus indicating that the Holy Spirit need not be seen as one individual being who is omnipresent but many spirit beings representing God everywhere. 5. Assertion: Ellen White led the church into a Trinitarian understanding of God. Response: Ellen White never used the term Trinity to describe God. She spoke of three persons of the godhead, which is consistent with the view expressed here that the Holy Spirit is a person, just not someone co-equal with God or to be worshipped. Regarding Ellen White’s statement that “In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived” (Desire of Ages, p. 530), the full statement shows that it is not Jesus Himself that is being described, but rather, life - which Jesus has and is able to impart. Here is the full statement as it was originally published in Signs of the Times: “In Him was life, original, unborrowed, underived. This life is not inherent in man. He can possess it only through Christ.” (The Signs of the Times, April 8, 1897; also Selected Messages, vol. 1, pp. 296, 297). Being described is the nature and quality of this life and not the origin of it. Original - not a pattern or copy, but something genuine, authentic. Unborrowed - does not have to be returned. Underived - not being drawn from a source; He has it in Himself. How He came in possession of it? It was given to Him by His Father. Jesus said: “For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself” (John 5:26). The Trinity denies the most fundamental truth of the gospel that God loved us to the point of giving His only begotten Son to die for us (John 3:16). It was not an eternal God who cannot die, but the literal Son of God who did die and was raised from the dead by His Father (Gal.1:1).

THE SECOND COMMANDMENT, THE TRINITY, AND THE OMNIPRESENCE OF GOD I always wondered what was so significant about the second Commandment that Rome found it necessary to remove it altogether from the Ten Commandments. But it appears that there is a fundamental truth in that Commandment concerning where God's presence is that is intended to protect us from all forms of false worship. The second Commandment tells us that we should not bow down before any image. This implies that God is not in any image. Which means that God is not everywhere. The Bible tells us that God is in heaven; and heaven is not everywhere. Heaven is above the earth and that is where we should direct our worship to God, where He is. He knows everything that happens everywhere and can go wherever He pleases but His abode is in heaven where Jesus, our High Priest and intercessor, is presenting our cases to Him. - "Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens" (Heb. 8:1). Furthermore, both the prophets Daniel and John saw God in heaven with the angels gathered around His throne and Jesus being separate and distinct (Dan. 7 and Rev. 4, 5). Daniel said "the Ancient of days did sit" (Dan. 7:9) and "one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days" (Dan. 7:13). John said "one sat on the throne" (Rev. 4:2) who was worshipped as the Creator to whom it was said "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created" (Rev. 4:11), with Jesus appearing before Him to receive a book and power and authority, as the Lamb who was slain, while the angels sang, "Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever." (Rev. 5:13). God is not everywhere all at once like a vapour while part of Him or an image sits on the throne representing Him. God Himself sits, of whom man was made in His image after His likeness, "made after the similitude of God" (James 3:9). Logically, if God is everywhere, He can be worshipped wherever He is. One could then bow down and worship before a stone, a tree, a person or any object, not as worshipping the object but as worshipping God, since God is in it. That would open the door for the worship of false Gods as no one would be able to tell the difference whether you are worshipping the true God or not. It would not be consistent to forbid worshipping before an object if God is in the object and one is worshipping, not the object, but God who is in the object. This is evident in the experience of the children of Israel in the wilderness. God appeared to them in a cloud and they were not forbidden to bow before Him in the cloud - "And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud" (Ex. 19:9), "And all the people saw the cloudy pillar stand at the tabernacle door: and all the people rose up and worshipped, every man in his tent door" (Ex. 33:10). If God is not in a particular place, say in an image, it means that there is at least one place where He is not. He cannot be everywhere and not everywhere at the same time. The idea that the Holy Spirit is God present everywhere was precisely the argument that Dr. John Harvey Kellogg put forward to justify his pantheistic teachings. And Ellen White told him that he was wrong. Initially, he said that God was in everything. And when God instructed Ellen White to oppose it, he modified it by saying that at the time of his first presentation of the matter in the book "The Living Temple" he did not believe in the Trinity. Because of that, he said he had not given a clear explanation of the matter. He went on to explain that he had now come to believe in the Trinity and could better explain his idea. The new explanation was that it was not God the Father, but God the Holy Ghost who was everywhere and in everything. Ellen White told him that he was wrong. And we can see why. If God the Holy Spirit is everywhere and can be worshipped, it is a doorway to replace worshipping God and Christ in heaven entirely. Another modified version of Kellogg's idea is that the Holy Spirit is really Christ himself or both God and Christ in an omnipresent form. This is also not correct as it places God and Christ on earth rather than in heaven. The pioneers of Seventh-day Adventism stated in their Fundamental Principles of faith published in the 1889 Yearbook that God was everywhere present by His representative, the Holy Spirit. At face value, this would suggest that this representative is omnipresent. But it is perhaps more consistent with scripture to say that He is everywhere present by His representatives the holy spirits. Holy spirits are ministering spirits sent from heaven - "And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man." (John1:51). "Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?" (Heb. 1:14). This is consistent with the Hebrew word ruach and the Greek word pneuma that are translated in the Bible as spirit. These words are also translated spirits, thus indicating that the Holy Spirit need not be seen as one individual being who is omnipresent but many spirit beings representing God everywhere. From this perspective, there is no denying that the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, sent at Pentecost is a person - only not a God-being to be worshipped. Like the Angel of Revelation 18 who comes down from heaven with the latter rain - a similar occurrence as that which took place at Pentecost except more extensive - the Comforter would be seen as a messenger sent by Christ from heaven, as stated repeatedly in John 14-16. Ellen G. White describing the latter rain speaks of a mighty angel from heaven being sent to do this work and further said, "Angels were sent to aid the mighty angel from heaven" (Ellen. G. White, Story of Redemption, p. 399). It should be noted that Jesus's warning against blaspheming against the Holy Spirit is not implying that the Holy Spirit is more to be revered than Jesus Himself. Jesus went back to heaven and promises to return to this earth to take us to His Father's house in heaven. He left the Holy Spirit to guide us until He returns. If we reject that guidance by blaspheming against the Holy Spirit, there will be nobody to guide us. The situation is like what God told the children of Israel in the wilderness - "Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him." (Ex. 23:20, 21). It is simply warning us not to reject the Holy Spirit's guidance. It is not forbidding us seeking to understand who the Holy Spirit is or what the Holy Spirit does. So, there we have it. The church has now fully accepted Kellogg's idea. Ellen White said that the initial presentation by Kellogg was the alpha of deadly heresies. She said that the omega would follow shortly afterwards and would be accepted. And it did follow shortly afterwards in Kellogg's modified version, based on his acceptance of the Trinity. And the church has now fully accepted it - that God (the Holy Spirit) is everywhere and should be worshipped. So, based on current practice, Jesus is worshipped, the Holy Spirit is worshipped but the One true God is almost entirely ignored. Jesus, praying to His Father, made it clear who the "only true God" is and identified Himself as the one sent by God - "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3). Nowhere in the Bible is worship given to anyone else except the one seated on the throne who is referred to as "LORD God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come" (Rev.4:8) and to Christ, the Lamb, as it will be in the new earth - "And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it." (Rev. 21:22). God is the Father of Christ. Accordingly, Christ, the Lamb is seen with "an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads" (Rev. 14:1). It is the name of the Lamb's Father that will be written in their foreheads. Whatever one's concept of the Godhead, the term "godhead" is used only three times in the Bible (Acts 17:29, Rom. 1:20 and Col. 2:9) and in none of these places is the expression used to replace the idea of God being a single individual who has a Divine Son who is worshipped alongside Himself. And not even once does the term "godhead" in scripture allude to the worship of anyone else. All worship should be directed to God and Christ in heaven. It is not about where we are when we worship but, like sending a petition to the king of England, we do not send it to Spain or Australia but to him in England where he is. Similarly, Jesus in teaching us how to pray directed that we say, "Our Father which art in heaven". We should not be praying to nor worshipping anything on earth. We should pray to God in heaven, approaching His throne through Christ, our Mediator, and we should direct our worship to heaven where God is. This is the substance of the second Commandment that Rome has removed.

Very difficult and painful subject!

After watching this, I would say that Myles had a lot more solid proof and direct Adventist sources.. although I think a discussion about Adventists belief in the cleansing of the sanctuary or the EGW teachings that have been debunked/proven she did not follow these rules herself would be more interesting, not just going in circles ab the trinity without proof. (I grew up Adventist and what myles discusses is a direct correlation of what I was taught in the church. This podcast was super unhelpful for me:/ I thought there would be some good points, not just “well we don’t think we think that way so he’s stupid”…

Loving this Podcast!

Shouldn't be "splaining" inspiration with this much hyperbole.

Sorry, I'm too busy reading my Bible. 🤷‍♀️

I'm not sure what branch of Adventist these guys are but as a 3rd Gen Adventist I can say with great certainty that we believe, as Ellen White did and taught, that there are 3 distinct beings who are all called God and essentially make up God head. I don't know why these clowns don't know this. Jesus's baptism should clear up any misconception on how many beings there are. SMH.

Revelation 18 King James Version 18 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. 6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. 7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. 9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. 11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: 12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, 13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. 14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all. 15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, 16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! 17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off, 18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city! 19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate. 20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her. 21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. 22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; 23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Revelation 18 King James Version 18 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. 6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. 7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. 9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. 11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: 12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, 13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. 14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all. 15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, 16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! 17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off, 18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city! 19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate. 20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her. 21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. 22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; 23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Myles plays chess . These jokers playing rubber ducky in the tub

Adventism is semi Arianism or tritheism . No doubt . But yeah you guys have to work I guess get paid and sustain a home . Keep on wit the errors though 👍 there is NO Trinity in adventism

@4:21 - so in other words we don't believe that the three Persons of the Trinity are identical to the Godhead, or identical to each other. I'm sorry, but the mainstream doctrine of the Trinity as held by Athanasius and as held by catholic christians (including many so-called protestants) down to this day is logically inconsistent. It maintains that the persons of the Trinity are identical to the Godhead but not identical to each other, which is a contradiction. The pioneers were right to be uncomfortable with that inconsistent doctrine of the Trinity, but wrong when they took it to the excesses that Ellen White corrected, as James White said very early on. Mainstream christians are still wrong, both to believe in an inconsistent doctrine of the Trinity, and to believe the Logos has a cause, despite John 1:3 requiring God the Son to be causeless. Mainstream christians deny the divinity of Christ, teaching that He is a created being, and then try to constrain everyone else to believe their false doctrines on pain of heresy.

There is no Trinity period and the Godhead simply means head of all gods. “For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, mighty and terrible, that regards not persons, nor take rewards (brides) Deut. 10:17: and BTW Ellen White wrote: CHRIST, IS NOT GOD ALMIGHTY

❤ Dr Ford ❤

Isaiah 6:3 "And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.”​ Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. “Did you catch that? That’s one “holy” for each person of the Godhead!“ You are born unto God, and you stand under the sanction and the power of the three holiest beings in heaven, who are able to keep you from falling. 7MR 267.2 “The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, the three holy dignitaries of heaven, have declared that they will strengthen men to overcome the powers of darkness.”-5 Bible Commentary, 1110. (Manuscript 92,1901).

These are the types of questions we should be asking and able to provide a personal, simply worded answer to. What is sin? What is the gospel? Why did Jesus have to die? What will God do to those who arent "saved"? "By beholding we become changed" - by beholding what? Then defining an Adventist becomes self-evident. Of the few Adventists I've heard who've been able to answer these confidently, the most compelling and evidence based is Dr. Graham Maxwell. Nobody has made me more confident and secure in the Adventist picture of who God is and the evidence of His righteousness than Maxwell.

Herbert Douglass and his Sabbath school lesson echoed the words of Andreasen in his chapter on the last generation first paragraph. Andreasen's line concludes in as much saying now it's up to you to become little jesus's and do what he did.

Thank you so much for the research and the presentation.

thank u for all your hard work

Disappointingly underwhelming. Am trying to give Adventist defenders a chance in order to see all sides of things, but you guys offered virtually nothing of substance in this discussion. Aside from the fact that the organization is sloppy in its print material and everyone can have different beliefs and the prophet who literally spoke for Jesus evolved in her beliefs? How is that possible? Would be okay, kinda, if the religion itself didn't condemn all other Christian denominations, change the gospel, have a different Jesus and claim to be the remnant. For people who are even minimally educated in Adventism and its history and believe it is evil and demonic you are offering nothing. Not personally attacking, but this was not any kind of defence against what Myles presents. Not sure what the purpose of the episode or channel is, then. Especially being called Adventist History Project, lol.

But you would not invite black folk to your 8:00 dinners 3 days a week.. are you racist.

She also said, "Checkers are the Devil's business" ...context is overrated.

Ellen White was SO racist she called for reparations! (sarcasm)

😂😂 He has your sense of humor Matthew😂😂