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Evidently, we're weaker than a cat.

WoL is as strong as it needs to be is my feeling after dawntrail. I dunno if we lost power after the endsinger lore-wise but valigarmanda or robot incoorporated should not be a problem at that point if we go by powerlevels. This is why we are as strong as the story requires us to be, if a bandit gang is supposed to be a problem then they are, if the endsinger is supposed to be somewhat beatable then she is. It's either that or the WoL is some omnipotent observer that steps in in a smaller way when people can resolve their own problems or in a bigger way when it's not going well, so basicly a dickish god that does their own thing.

- its physically impossible for there to have been other adventurers aiding the wol against king thordan, as the only people who could have been on on Asys-La would have been thordan and his knights, the garleans, and the scions. so its pretty safe to say that the wol Merced Thordan oh their own. unless we want to assume that before the fight with thordan the wol ran all the way back to Cid flew all the way to ishguard, to pick up some allies, then they flew all the way back to fight thordan. -power scaling the wol is challenging because the power scaling in game is inconsistent, the wol might be a complete wrecking ball killing multiple dozens of enemies with ease in one cutscene, and then in the next will be backed into a corner by five enemies. despite this we do have the Stormblood and Shadowbringers cutscenes to go off which seem to suggest that the wol has the power to split the sky with a single attack. considering this something like town level (tier 7) is likely the most accurate. this is because the player during the lv 90 alliance raid can face tank a meteor, and during the normal raid manages to face tank ultima as well, implying that the wols durability has considerably improved since arr. (however in game feats of strength are considerably rarer than the in game feats of durability. ) even so a lv 90 warrior of like is able to both cast and tank meteor.

Standard plot armor writing = mainly wins because the writers want it and just reduce the power of the antagonists to that level. Look at the whole shit show since at least SB. Neither Garlemald nor Ascian ever do anything. Even Zenos massively holds back not even starting with Omega Weapon, which just hoverst there for no reason after being shown in a cutscene, how it actually fights. Ascians contantly knock out the WoL and even teleport him/her forcefully, can just wait for any moment to backstab the WoL and of course easily kill any of the Scions. They just never do. Garlemald is a continent sized version with not only a scifi hight ech army far beyond the level of for example the USA, but also way mor magical power on their side, since only a fraction of Garleans are actual Garleand by race and in contrary to Eorza they got schools and universities. But even the magic aside, their airships = flying fortresses, described as inpenetrable by Eorzan magic and weaponry in ARR (and there was zero development to change that in everything beyond this) fly with (also ingame description) hypersonic speed, what is Mach 5+, that's 1750m or over a mile per second. In a cutscene it was shown how powerful the cannons are, on the level of mininukes or big bomb dropped by bomber which can obliterate whole buildings. ARR also showed that they got shield generators on top of that and their doors were only breakable by their own weaponry and that with overloard. Of course none of this is ever used. Overall Garlemald could obliterate Eorza in half a day without any problem. With such ships and their speed and firepower a single one could just fly by without even being seen as nor ever able to stop it and just carpet bomb those towns. Eorzan magic is shown in SB: short ranged, slow, weak. The needed a whole ritual and had to get 100m close plus a full cannon barrage to make a mere dent in city gate. Without the obvious plot armor writing and against an actual empire (not even starting talking about evil), they would have died long before even reaching that point WoL overall can't be brainwashed by primals, because WoL already is brainwashed by one, Super Hytleryn. That's pretty much it. And even bird brain, while actually doing something is defeated by Zenos not the WoL. What would the WoL have done beside standing their and farting their pants?

WoL : **Summons Emet and Hythlo** "Be pals and reduce this Goku weirdo into dust of aether." Hythlo : **Raises hand towards Emet** "Ours is the power of creation, to create and to unmake." Emet : **Snap** "There, done! I'll go back to being dead. If you wake again from my eternal slumber I'll be very grumpy." **hand-wave goodbye**

My issue with power scaling like this is that it simplifies things into raw power output, summarising many factors into basically one number. In reality, I don't think the WoL is capable of any kind of attack that would be as destructive as many of the bosses they fight are or surviving direct hits from the biggest/multiple direct hits from more standard attacks. What the WoL has is skill. It's not "I'm just better than you (stands there laughing at feeble attacks glancing off them before vapourising the enemy)", it's "I'm just better than you (meticulously and methodically dismantles opponent's fighting style, gaining insurmountable advantage before finishing the fight)"

The Echo > Ultra Instinct

If we're talking about Strength i think it best to say the while the Wols AP is nothing noticible his durability should be more considered as with the help of Ryne the Wol was able to fight despite a worlds wroth of corrupting light for a large period of time "from the abduction of the crystal exarch to the end of amoruts dungeon" this means the Wol was up and fighting despite an energy force of around 10^32 joules actively killing them, is able to take major environmental catastrophes from the six elemental Primal's[these are there extreme variants i consider these cannon as they came from actuals characters and not the mistrial] (Fire Danger Level: Extreme-ifrit, a 9 magnitude earthquake-Titan Ef rating 5-Garuda A TS5-Rahmu, A TIS Grade 5- Leviathan, don't know about shiva could be a little ice age (LIA)), a energy equivalent of two Pluto's clashing onto themselves, as of 6.5 survives reality ripping attacks directly and indirectly from zeromus conformed from the loparites at the end. and if we go situational with the final DT dungeon (SPOILIERS!) we had to leave our body to fight the final bass something akin to what the Crystal Exarch did with the scions as of the 85 dungeon we could fight inhibited in the statsosphere , and we could assume the ultima from Athena which may be equal to Ultima weapons "Ultima", for speed Wol has dodged lighting for raumh at the low end and evaded light speed attacks from Cloud of darkness, Sophia, Hydalin and endsinger at the high end.

Pet peeve, don't like the typing sound.

In cannon WOL also beat back a fucking seed of destruction, one of the OP things created by the gods of the drakengard universe to destroy WHOLE REALITIES

I do think that endgame WoL is a planet level character, but i dont actually think they would be capable of destroying a planet by themselves purely off of their own power, azem crystal or not. They just dont have the actually attacks to do that. Definitely could blow up a town though. Black Mage would probably make it pretty easy. Could probably take a whole country, though itd take a while. I dont think any army could stop them. I still say theyre planet level though, because they could probably defeat many in that tier. We know that Omega could destroy planets, and we beat him, after all, even when he was going as all out as possible. WoL doesnt have massive attack power, rather, they have god-like damage reduction. There are many attacks that should raze entire cities to the ground and theyll do, what, less damage than a melee class recovers with Second Wind? We can even tank the original version of the Ultima spell created by Athena's studies of the heart of sabik, all without Moms help. Im not actually sure whether Athena's Ultima is stronger than the Ultimate Weapon's Ultima, but it seems like it would be? So yeah, i dunno. The WoL isnt called a godslayer for nothing.

That is if you dont consider omega raid as a computer simulation And Endsinger kinda like the infinity stones that work only on beings of that universe And that WoL even on SB loses to RanJit somehow and somehow you gotta run away from the palace om the coup i mean WoL could knock the entire army if he/she could solo Ultima Ye old: Aurora Borealis ? At this timd of the year ? At this time of day ? In this part of the Country ? Localized entirely within your kitchen ?

but when are you asking the real question: how strong are the mandervilles

WoL has literally the thickest plot armor imaginable

If the heart of Sabik predates the Sundering, does that mean that it is sundered and that we could find it another 13 times?

I don’t get why almost all male final fantasy xiv CZcamsrs like to use female characters. This might be politically incorrect, but, man up bro

I feel the need to make a mention of rath games, and their attempts to solo the entirety of ffxiv. As I recall he beat nidhogg alone.

I'm gonna say Only one thing. Big fat 🌮

Im pretty sure the tier 2 scaling come from stuff like surviving Raid attacks like Eden stuff where she blows up a galaxy or something. But personally I prefer mountain level at the very least because of stuff like blocking Susano'o's blade. The rest of the battles can be attributed to the power of friendship so we cant really honestly say they were 1v1 fights.

Goku blows up planet.

i'm not versed at all in the lore of this game but i played trough the story and lost count of the gods i kicked in the ass by the end of heavensward, sooooooooo

Goku becoming his own Ultimate raid ending up becoming friends with WoL 😂

Goku biggest gimmick to win a fight is to nearly die to gain power. WOL wouldn't just spare he would finish the job.

The answer is yes and easily. People think in-game events like raid fights fo not count towards the WoL's overall power buy they are wrong. Take the Endsinger fight for instance, the WoL is on the verge of being wiped out but he too awaken the Dynamis so he can use it. That is not a gameplay element it is the narrative of the story. By that power alone, the WoL can just wipe put anyone out of existence, but in the game, this element is heavily held back by the plot. Since the WoL canonnically has Dynamis, all the feats he does in the in-game fights are no longer "exagerations" and he can perform those. That is pretty much it. People oftenly are gonna downplay FF character feats in-battle in one way or another since they are extremely powerful, the WoL tanks Eden Galaxy buster or can be in the same space as Omega while the fabric of reality is tearing apart. 😂 FF14 WoL is op

I'd like to include, btw, some of the LBIII that are canon in the history('cause WoL actually have these jobs) Dark Knight you literally cut through reality. As a Monk you punch so hard that it causes an actual explosion, as a Dragoon you literally use the power of a dragon's eye, as a Samurai you do the anime shit Not gonna talk about War hitting the ground and doing fuggin' mountains, just to destroy 'em after that. Pld materializing a fortress wall. REAPER DOING REAPER THINGS, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO EXPLAIN THAT LB

Why are people still comparing others to Goku? Goku is weak as shit btw lol The WoL has stopped entire realities from collapsing, is empowered by the goddess of creation and then defeated said goddess of creation... Stfu with this "Goku" shit 😂

Im telling you, If Goku stands in an open circular arena and has markers for his attacks, he got no chance

Another thing to take into account is the fact that WoL is only eight times rejoined. So a fully rejoined WoL/Azem would be much stronger.. Also, its been established that every Gilgamesh aside from the Type-0 one are the same one.

This is an interesting take. I always saw WoL as Tier high 10, or low 9 at the absolute most on account of the fact the abilities they have are never more than minor explosions. Rather, a lot of the attacks thrown their way are based on Aether, which there's a lot of ways to counter. Such as raising ones fire resistance by attuning certain types of aether. Glamours are just aether too, which we can even glamour our attacks. Nothing says enemies cant either, such as making them look like planets.

Late but WoL is easily without a shadow of a doubt multiversal and is quite agreed upon as the strongest FF protagonist with maybe lightning being debatable stronger. Saying he's town level is probably the most low ball and I'm sorry but stupidest thing you can give a character like this. This is like saying goku is only planet level. I'm actually shocked you even brought up the idea he could be town level. Even a person that doesn't even power scale wouldn't say he's town level. You also have to take in consideration the attacks WoL tanks. His speed, and power and skills and what the things he defeated. Not counting raids is also disingenuous since raids are canon. Omega creating a ex death and saying he's weaker than the real one is also cap as you can't even prove he's not as strong as the real one along with the fact that omega himself is stronger than ex death. Also eden shooting you to a galaxy can be taken as fact due to summons creating pocket universes, this is why people count sephiroth hypernova attack since SE said its basically a real thing thats happen. I could go on but yeah....WoL is easily without a doubt. Multiversal.

I think yier 4 is about right. Could also put Zidane near here too since (with help) he beat Necron. Who is AT MINIMUM tier 4 as well

The echo doesn't grant anti tempering effect, that's granted by the blessing of light for major spoiler reasons.

Flaws I see: Zodiark in his weakened state is still stronger than Hydaelyn and the Endsinger, Elidibus is not only the strongest ascian, but the strongest member of the convocation of 14 (implied on Pandemonium). The strongest characters on FFXIV are Omega, Midgardsormr, Zodiark, Hydaelyn, Athena and Ultima.

Nope. Goku has no telegraphs at his speed

Mind you, the WOL has a feat of strength where they literally block attacks the likes of which are town level threats at least, and can press on with little fatigue. I'd say reasonable, they can be a rank 6-A. They bay not level a town in one swipe, but they could for sure solo the full armed population of a city and a army all lined up and live to tell the tale. Plus if we go full flat out, they were fatigued from fighting the endsinger and fought Zenos at his full strength, expending every last ounce of aether/life energy in their system to do so by fortune of the button teleporting them away. If they arent powerful, they are at least durable with inhuman levels of endurance.

I think the WoL's powerlevel is just heavily depending on which part of the story you are at? A Realm Reborn and Heavensward, you are really not more than.. Well, a strong person with a buff that gives you a slight edge aboth others. In Stormblood, not too much came to it, except the experience you gained from the wars you fought. Still, a very strong person with a strong blessing. Shadowbringers you go rise up to much more, first of all after what you been trough, which surely hardened you, but second of all, you merge with one of the other Azem splinters: Ardbert. This increases your power by an absolute huge lot. With it, you are basicly at 2/13 of your "potential" power, given that there are 11 shards of Azem left that could theoretically merge with you and taking it that every shard is as powerful as we are. In Endwalker, the WoL might be one of the most powerful beings in the whole Final Fantasy multiverse? I mean, a creature that keeps coming up as a sort of "Super-Boss" is Shinryu which also travels dimensions and can bring their end. Zenos which himself is probably one of the most powerful beings ever, without hesitation just absorbed Shinryu. And merged with him, WoL could beat him. I think that alone, ranks WoL very very high up.

roll please =racsit wow lmfao I never seen that before lol

GRRRRRRR

Its canon that the WoL never fails in battle (even if the players do) because of the Echo. The failures we have as players are simply the echo's precognition. Our clears of the fight where we play perfectly are the "canon" clears of those fights.

Omg I've been talking about this theme with my FC recently love the lore of FF14

AI generated sounding ahh (Love the video)

Conventionally the WoL can't defeat Goku or a Saiyan. However it was never stated that we had to defeat Goku in a physical fight. Goku's motivations are what prompt combat to begin with, and although we are weaker in combat, we not only can anticipate moves but we can also access an arsenal of skills that ignore bodily limitations such as BLU. Some of those abilities are so broken that a target's health is depleted automatically by half in some cases, or even DOOM-spelled or petrified. This is if we had to actually fight him. We could try beating him in an eating contest; there's no limit of food the WoL can consume and no cooldown. It's a tall order, but it's a different kind of competition. Goku may not even fight us if we proffer any challenge other than a physical fight, but it's worth a try. If you intrigue him or entice him with a challenge, and he's encouraged from other sides, it may be enough to convince him to try.

think you got the wrong song at 2:26, it sounds like "outcast of the sulphurous seas"

So had a random thought that popped in my head about how strong the WoL became at the end of Endwalker. We kind of ignored this feat because it wasn't assumed to be much, but in retrospect might be far higher than initially believed. Zenos headbutted through Endsingers "world/sun/shield". An object designed to hold the entire Universe of ffxiv in it over time. Zenos used physical force to break through what was supposed to be unbreakable. It was supposed to contain all of ffxiv reality in it. Than the WoL fought and defeated a being that for all intents and purposes had that same power at the end. How big of a feat is Zenos breaking in to that Sun that was supposed to hold all of reality in do time?

The entire concept of power levels and who would beat who is silly. unless theres a massive difference in ability in all aspects, it will always come down to situational/narrative demands. Still I doubt we could beat Goku. lol. Well it depends, goku at what point. Goku began relatively weak and became insanely overpowered with training.

Goku.. probably not. lol. I get the meme though. But I'd say the Endwalker WOL is at least as strong as many of the other greatest mortal godslaying warriors in fantasy.

I think WoL alone is around T7. With Azem gem, maybe T5. With Scion, T2 seems reasonable. I am not sure if WoL is the strongest protagonist as individual in Final Fantasy, but Scions of the seventh dawn should be the most powerful group. Sure, WoL has beaten so many world-ending god/monster, but we never has the power to do the same thing. Maybe only durability is really out of the world. P.S.: looked at who else is in T7...Satoru Gojo. Seem fair to me.

is beating Goku now considered the conservative estimate in cross-franchise power scaling?

Not as disgusting as your mo~ That shit killed me.

I dont know this game as I never got around to play FF14 however I wanted to see your points and I enjoyed it, thx for explaining it as well, I do like the arguement as I think it would be a cool “What IF” but I don’t think WoL would be beating Goku any time soon, Even if DB ends rn and never continues, so when goku turned SSj3 he could be said to be at universal as majin buu was the terror of the universe but I think when he turned SSG is when he really took that title, in the manga it was stated when goku fought beerus, their clashes shook the universe itself, on top of that goku have the ability to break the 4th dimension which is time, we know this because of two cases, 1). Instant transmission, speed is relative and at most u can only travel as fast as light, nothing is faster then that, if we can run as fast as light it would take us over 93 billion light years to reach the end of our universe, goku can instantly teleport anywhere without speed, add that on that SSGSSKx10 Goku was able to slip through time im order to fight Hit which strength this, so goku can slip through time and can be faster then light, not to mention have the power to break the universe is insane (However if u notice I didn’t even mention MUI yet lol)