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A lawyer class would be useful

The only one I can think about is jungler thats not a support or any of those three

Give support LMGS with zero recoil that are slower (like real life) and take away their explosives, then make the demolitions class

Wouldn't recon also fall into the support classes?

So, one thing I always liked doing in team based competitive games is loading up on supports and defense characters to grind the enemy down through sheer stubborn survival.

Eve Online is a great example of something that's broken this. They have ships that deal damage but specialize in different types of damage. Tackle which do little damage but can hold one or more ships in the fight or slow them down for higher damage application. Support ships that use Command Boosts to buff their fleet. Booshers that sneak into the enemy fleet and attempt to warp jump them a large distance away from their friends. Bubblers who drop bubbles to prevent warp outs or booshing. Stealth bombers who have stealth, high damage and mobility but are paper thin. Logistic ships that can repair damage but then that's broken into Shield boosters or Armor repairers. Droneboats that use drones to swarm a target with damage, healing or electronic warfare. Then there's jammers that reduce target range which can break the lock on a target, scan dampeners which increase the time it takes to lock a target, target painters that make the target easier to hit and so many more.

If we look at real life as an example there really is not other unit other than offense. Offensive units do have variants to which there is positives and negatives. There is the standard infantry or militia. Cheapest unit to create in terms of resources and time. Then you have maybe Calvary or Tanks which are swift units that can break through lines of defenses. Expensive to create and require extra resources. Tanks have a long range attack but are more or less useless in up close urban battle. Calvary have no armor but are swift and good at out maneuvering infantry and getting in flanking positions. The history in real world military has always been one of creating a unit that is effective against the weapons of your opponent. If your enemy primarily used swords then chain mail was invented. Fighting in formation was a powerful addition when fighting against a relatively undisciplined army but once things like artillery and tanks and just general explosives was mass produced fighting in columns and groups became a huge liability and guerrilla tactics was the better way. Its always been about fighting or using weapons and/or armor that is effective against the tools your opponent would employ.

attack defence healer(good effects toward your team) and disruptor(status effects against enemies)

i don’t know why healers are considered supports, unless the specific character provides other additional buffs they should be classified as defence (IMO‼️‼️‼️). the fourth class could be debuff but some will consider it a type of support, which i can get behind

Id argue that [Control] as a class is viable, as that is a mix of both enemy control to force certain actions or ally control to facilitate a strategy. Placing objects, changing terrain, moving enemies, moving allies. The above are often classified as Offense, Defense or Support depending on what they are used for, but in actuality can serve multiple functions as one in a matter very distinct from instant offense, defense & support. An obtruction can provide cover, allow offensive pivots or be necessary support for some tactics. Same for teleporting an ally to safety or to position for an attack or to reach somewhere more easily. It is noticeably distinct from Support in that support grants a definitive benefit to the target, while Control requires tactics/precision to get a benefit from it, and can even hamper the team if used improperly. Recon also fits there, as knowledge also offers controls, knowing what the enemy can do and letting allies be aware, thus taking control of the situation.

ya dunce the game mechanics and the system determines the roles that can be implamented. look at a game like splatoon where the systems are completly diffrent, it has 4 uniqe roles look it up. step out of your game desinge bubble

Honestly with how broad support is, defense is also sucked into it because you're not directly beating your opponents- you're indirectly helping your damage dealers by tanking / negating damage. So yeah. support should be split up.

I argue that Stealth is a 4th class because we have characters like the Spy in TF2 that usually work as offensive characters. But also stray away from that category through their use of disguise, knowledge, movement, and obviously stealth, requiring all the players to not just focus on fighting skill, but also strategy, and sometimes even mental skill. (This role could also be filled by things like power-ups, and/or support buffs. But could also just be merged with the Recon role.)

In the original final fantasy there were four classes: offense, defense, support, and the people who help you run away. eg Black Mage, Fighter (heavily armored), White Mage, and Thief (runs away real well).

I suppose you could have a "End Game" class, in theory. A character that can do almost no damage, does not have good defence, and cannot heal, help movement or provide information. However, when this character dies is game over, the team loses. Something like the King in chess. Other characters came back after a few seconds when they die, but not this character. You role when taking that position is keep yourself in the safest spot possible, in a chaotic battle ground where everything is moving fast. You need to keep the position of all other characters in mind, to move in a way that allow them to kill the enemy's End Game without put you in danger. Would be interesting to see what kind of player would favour that character class. In a RPG we could make that character a essential element outside combat, instead. Maybe the merchants in this world only deal with this class. And the upgrade system depends on them too. So, if you lose this fellow you can still keep going but without improve your equipment or upgrade any character. You have only one of this kind of characters, and he is irreplaceable.

Well based on a real world military example, it'd be intel gathering or sabotage because logistics isn't going to work in a FPS

I wish I knew how to play Ram

I think fortnite fits with class for the reason that in that game all of those are important me for example I'm a camper I keep track of enemy movements most of the time and if anyone tells me fat fortnite doesn't have a class system then your wrong because in that game you choose your loadout based on what you find the mid game is spent using your weapons and choosing your gear so you can settle into your role

I consider information a form of support, too. All it does is HELP your team to do their job better. Take League of Legends as an example: Everyone gets their vision totems, but there are special items tailored only for the support role, that is giving them additional vision totem charges and generally improves their ability to place vision for your own team or deny vision from enemies. The thing with your question is, that it's just a definition thing. And it just make sense to broadly distinct between damage, tank and support. You can basically fit everything inside of these three pillars. But I think there's still easily place to add new/ more roles to games. BUT they will be very game subjective. Because these roles will be tailored to game mechanics. Holy trinity works perfect for combat oriented games, where the HP bar is the major objective. Now take a look at League of Legends again: This is a Moba. And in this game your main objective is to destroy the enemy nexus. Which is a building. You can win every fight and stomp your enemies in combat hard and still loose the game, if you ignore the main objective. That's why I think lol has at least one special extra role to their game: The Splitpusher. The splitpusher isn't specially a DPS or tank, because the role of the split pusher isn't focussed around fighting enemy players. Split pushers can be slippery (better at avoiding combat) or they can be super strong (high DPS and tank) or he can have a very specialized set of abilities, that make him a great split pusher in other ways. However most split pushers are great at clearing enemy NPC waves and dealing damage to the structures -> the actual main objective of this Moba game mode. That's why I claim, you can't really press a split pusher into the classic trinity. Because he can be on the spectrum of all three (maybe least likely support, but still possible) and yet fulfill non of the three standard roles in the actual game play. The splitpusher is basically a main objective focussed class. Thus whenever a game with more complex game modes comes out, there is a possibility for a new, fourth class (or maybe even more) that don't fit into the standard holy trinity, because they are not combat focussed. They're objective focussed. (Thebausffs playing his feeding top lane split push Sion is a great example of utterly objective focussed decision making and game play. He literally calculates dying, to get timing advantages and other things into his decision making. Watching him makes you think he's playing an other game.) ------------------- My explanation even mends perfectly with your analysis. You mention, that it just makes sense to have DPS, Tank and Heal, because these three classes focus around the main objective: Health bars. But you ignore the possibility, that games can have more objectives than just killing the enemy players. ------------------- I'll give you a stupid other example: Lets imagine a capture the flag oriented game. Now imagine champions with abilities that focus around being the perfect flag bearers. Yea, they can have some great burst DPS (to fend off assassins), but they could also have utilities/ support skills (deny vision, walling off paths) or shielding abilities, that makes it harder to kill them, etc. They can possibly have a wild mix of abilities that could fit in all three standard roles, but their objective is not to fight, but to get to the flag and bring it back to your base. Thus they play completely differently. Team fight is a side gig for the flag bearer and something they probably want to avoid. But again, this is a question of definition. You could just have a subclass optimize his build to be the flag bearer. Thus you could still press this role into one of the three main combat roles. But honestly, in my opinion this doesn't make sense, because - here I say it again - the main objective isn't the combat, thus it doesn't make sense to value this role in terms of his combat capabilities. (imagined conversation: "You're an assassin DPS, why didn't you go sneak behind and kill the support?!" - "Because I'm the flag bearer and focussed around snatching the flag and bringing it to our base".)

MAGE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, MAGE. it's basically someone specialized in either debuffs or ranged combat. sometimes both. sorry, just bugs me a bit because this is the class you usually see filling in the blanks in games. It's not a support, that's what the healer is. they either give shields or health or both, or they give other status effects that assist the players.

Before I watch the video, I'm gonna say disrupter. Attackers focus on damaging and defeating the enemy. Defenders focus on absorbing and minimizing the enemies offenses. Supports bolster and maintain allies. So a disrupter would be interacting with enemies to undermine them without themselves being able to win a fight. Think like a pokemon that could only perform status moves. Capable of disabling someone's entire setup but unable to actually win the battle. Upon looking at other comments this potential role has already been covered in depth.

Until the support issue is resolved, I will suggest "Agility," where you are just meant to be faster and more...agile than everyone else. It is solely a personal thing for those characters, but you could argue it's still support ig. Just like everything else-

Well, if anything and everything that's not DPS and tanking gets classified as "support", then of course it's impossible to come up with any new class.

Yes, but people will just call it support

driller.

4th class idea: objective/tech class that revolves around completing/denying any objective, area control via opening and/or closing off parts of the map, and information such as the recon class you suggested. the main three classes are so hard to step away from due to their broad scope of what they encompass and how they interact with the core gameplay. All the guns, sheilds, heals and skill in the world won't mean shit if the kill counter wont go up or they get locked in or out of a room or get seperated.

Another interesting look at the "recon" job is warding in MOBAs. Vision control is a critical gameplay element of League for example, but there aren't many characters that interact with vision much.

Offence, defense, support, and tactician You split the support into a direct support(heals/buffs/debuffs) and tactician(crowd control/positioning/enemy intelligence)

Imagine being so unexposed to design that you think this is a legitimate thing no one has thought of before. Let me save you some time if you think, like this creator, that there are only 3 core classes, you're wrong. It's 4 core classes, Tank, DPS, Heals, and Support the problem comes from the idea that heals and support get so often intertwined with one another that some companies actually classify healers as "support" but this would be incorrect. You see support can be anything from buffs, to debuffs, to crowd control, to in-game utility. The other big issue is that the designers of WoW didn't think that people would want to play a class that is meant to supplement other classes so they broke up those abilities that make support unique and spread them out to the other three roles. This creates the illusion that there are only 3 roles. WoW has had such an impact on the culture of design that it's been swept up by most all other dev studios and been run with for so long that newer gamers like the one making this video think this is the way it's always been, not knowing that there is something else out there.

Offense, Defense, Healing and Support(buffs/debuffs) Some games have basically removed the healing role. It has pissed me off enough to get me to leave the games. LOL has greatly reduced healing and added buffs to the heal basically destroying the heal role. It also matters on the game the 4th role could be jungler or assassin, which should really be different skill sets. Junglers should be good and taking out NPC minions without teem members gaining territory, assets or treasure for the team. Assassin well killing one target in a few seconds by surprises but sucks at team fights, long cooldowns(or low stamina) and very low defenses able to be killed by any other class if attacked.

If we are talking dice it's tank (defense) gun ( offence) healer and monkey (skills) If it is a video game it tank (defense) DPS or damage (offence) heal, and control/buffer.

Well Eddventure I like mystery games & puzzle games & point and click adventure games &escape the room games & stealth games & strategy games & ttrpg Dungeons and Dragons & card games like pokèmon trading card game & yugioh & magic the gathering & I think point and click adventure boss battles are interesting & I like a good improvise comedy & the experience of a improvise adaptability & pulling through in a strategy game is quite the Experience!

There already are 4: Offense, Defense, Heal, and Buff. Healing and Buffing are 2 separate things, and yet you decided to make a whole video where you pretend they are one and the same. Just look at D&D for example. The Cleric is the best healer, but the best Buffer is either the Wizard with their many buff spells like Haste and Invisibility or the Paladin with their Aura abilities. Another example is found in Fire Emblem. Clerics and Bishops heal, but if you want buffs, look to the Dancer, or even characters with the “Rally” ability. 2 separate things. It’s not our fault you decided to make a whole video based on a false premise.

How's going to tell him warrior (ffxiv) aint dps 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

I would separate "healer" and "support" as two different roles. Healer for healing, support for buffing allies (more damage, mana regen, faster move speed, less damage taken, you name it) as well as debuffing enemies (more damage taken, less damage done, CC, etc.)

did you forget the scouting class, or are you lumping them with offence or support?

Yes, but the more important question is, Does the vanilla 'holy trinity' good to begin with? Playing many years of mmorpgs and mobas, the one thing that stand out to me is that the VAST majority wants to play as a DPS. And this causes issues with games in those genres, the biggest issues being: 1) Queue time for the majority of gamers can be frustratingly long, because: 2) Scarcity in Tanks and Healers . How I'd solve it (in mmorpgs for example): I'd remove pure DPS classes, and have only Tanks and Healers and Support. They all do equal amounts of damage. Support's role would be to deal with buffs(active buffs specifically), debuffs, to deal damage and crowd control. Tanks would, well... tank, kite, and deal damage, also mitigate their own damage with their CDs. Healers would keep the party alive and dispelled harmful effects besides dealing damage. preferrably with dots so that they can have more attention on the party. or I'd remove all the roles all together and every class is all the roles always.

Yes. Combat support (for debuffs). See: FF13 Saboteur for example.

terraformer or builder of sorts. someone who literally can change the map layout and or add new structures. the closest thing i know of is toolboxer from mordhau, he can craft manual turrets, spawn points, barrickads and fire pits.

crowd control.

Stealth/Distruptors- Thieves, scouts, debuff specialists, assassins, etc. They aren't "Offense", "Defense", or "Support" the way you laid them out. They aren't front line fighters, they aren't protectors, and they aren't merely "support" nor do they "stay safe" and need to be protected.

Idk, personally, recon feels more support than mobility to me, only because final fantasy does these in support casters with stuff like libra. Honestly, I'd go for a less combat oriented class and just go for a "survival" class. Mapping, food/water, crafting. Have abilities that could gain advantages in how combat is initiated like eagle eye abilities that allow you to see where enemies are, have an ability that allows you to "run away" and keep running even if hit, so basically you can ambush or bate an enemy to follow you to your group

Bro warrior is literally a tank in FFXIV, the hell you going on about?

I've always considered support and control to be separate classes. Obviously they can overlap, but there exist characters whose sole purpose is healing/buffs for their team, and characters whose sole purpose is debuffs/immobilization for the enemies, and I dont think it's fair to call them the same class. I also thought of a sort of scout role being it's own unique class, where their primary purpose is gaining information about the environment and enemy locations/strategies. Something along the lines of spy from tf2 or cypher from valorant. Of course, a scout class would not be very viable in all types of games.

Yeah but he from street fighter 3

Recon unfortunately is just another support class. Information is the best support there is

If we're considering "Core Classes" to be, essentially, present in every game, I think the only way you "add" more classes, is to make the existing ones more specific, and even then, it's difficult to break them down further in a way that's still (more or less) universal. Movement, recon, and even healing aren't present in every game (ie: DRG, there's no direct way to heal allies), so if you're coming up with a "Core Class" that's beyond the main 3 it's tricky. That said, the closest thing I can think of to a fourth class would be something like "Control" that focuses more on hampering and debuffing enemies or... controlling areas, rather than dealing direct damage and buffs. The characters that lay down crowd-control effects that reduce enemy damage, and either increase the windows for allied dps, or the efficiency of allied dps. This is the fuzzy area where a character that has a lot of these abilities is maybe a little weird to categorize in the other 3 Core Classes. Characters with a lot of crowd control can be hard to classify into the main 3 Core Classes, like someone that we call a Damage class, but does substantially less than their counterparts in exchange for a lot of crowd control; or someone that isn't quite as tanky as a typical Defense class and doesn't heal/shield as much as a typical Support class, but does a ton of debuffs on the enemy. That's where Control *could* fit: classifying the more debuff/crowd-control oriented characters. To me, that's the 4th class that would make the most sense to add to the list of Core Classes. Most games don't have "pure" Core Classes, each character is more like a "venn-diagram" of traits from the Core Classes, and, if we have to pick, we label them based on which class they take the most from. But who's domain is crowd control and debuffs? Is it really support? Or defense?

I think recon is just another flavor of support.

What ost is this? I can't guess it 2:44

The Healer and Support differ in most games because of their distinct roles. The Healer is primarily the one reserved for prominent healers and big buffs. The Support class can do damage but also has its own type of buffs that amplify the Healer's buffs. The support class is a hybrid between a damage dealer/defense, but not better than both. It also amplifies the mana regeneration for the healers and can do backup healing, but, once again, it is not better than a healer. Support is like a jack of all trades but could be better at any sole role. It can do damage but is out-damaged by the damage dealer. It has some good defense abilities but can't be a main tank, and it can provide backup healing but is not better than a Healer. They can also serve as a scoundrel that disrupts the enemy from performing their job. Thus, it is the support class. In classic RPGs, you can get by with a DD, Tank, and Support. However, the amount of farming and room clearance will be much slower than with the traditional DD, Tank, and Healer because a Healer can heal much better and faster. Support isn't needed, but it is always welcome at a party. Now, let's say for shooter games. You have your typical Assault class for sustaining damage, the Tank or defender that deploys a barrier that acts as the Tank, and you have the medic and Healer. The Support would be more like the scout or assassin that roams around, disrupting the enemy defenses or removing their medic from combat. The scout or assassins can't sustain damage as an assault but are often the one-hit wonder that can take out key targets like the medic and structures from team fights. To a degree, an engineer is also a good support class; they are not the best at any role but can perform multiple roles, and it is always welcome in a team group. Damage Dealers: These characters prioritize dishing damage; their defense is low to medium. Tank: They have a lot of defense to soak damage but can only dish out minor damage or are very slow. Healer: Those that regenerate the health pool of the party, in addition, give access to more damage and defense to the group. Support: Do damage more than a tank but less than a Damage Dealer. It can have defense better than assault but worse than Tank. Support often gives the group more flexibility for errors such as additional healing, damage, defense, buffing allies, or debuffing enemy by slowing them down, confusing or disorganizing their formation. For example, a rogue or assassin is sometimes considered a damage dealer because of the tremendous critical damage potential. Still, they are support classes depending on the mission type. They can do unique things, like use stealth, disable traps, find hidden switches, unlock locks, etc. Sometimes, a well-built rogue or assassin outshines the damage dealers, but it is heavily gear-dependent. However, they will never come close to a tank. In some games, they can be a "support tank" role as they have high evasion and many crowd control abilities that debuff their enemy's accuracy in combat. Would you like them in all scenarios? No, are they welcome if there is one around? Always. Support roles are often bundled up in most games with Healer roles, but Healers and healing is its own thing, and not all games need to play with the Trinity. Support is sometimes a subset of the Healer for games where healing isn't a factor. Recon is considered a Support character as well.