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I dont play cEDH. I only have one deck that's "too good" for casual play, but I have been hating on the rc for years. I completely support others trying to make a better system

Great video and i know it is one year old but i have a budgetquestion: I have a lot of expensive pieces but some are simply too expensive Can i still run the deck if i am missing things like Transmute Artifact and Mox Diamond, Grim Monolith? I have Crypt etc. but spendig amother 1k für two cards is just crazy At the end of the day it is a hobby

Great video and thanks for your input. Idgaf about the proposed unbans and bans, but if you are unbanning/banning 1 card from 1 color, you best do the same for the other colors, too. That unban/ban list looks heavily favoring one side, and unfair to red and white players, quite frankly.

Why didn’t the Wishclaw get passed?? Did I miss something?

Hey Eizenherz, not sure if you remember me but this is TheBluePlayer from a few years ago with that experimental Urza list. I’ve actually left the game since and started playing Flesh and Blood which turned out to be one of the best games designed (Even better than MtG). However, I wanted to return to check out the format again since the last time EDH had a serious banning to potentially start playing in a tournament setting. Having a tournament setting for EDH is inevitable and a need for a relevant curated banlist will eventually be necessary in order for this game mode to grow. What’s happening now is an interpretation of what house ruling a rule zero format in a tournament setting with cash prizing would look like. I always thought the EDH community has been fragmented because of the discrepancy of power level. Though I’ve learned to understand the stance of those looking to keep the current banlist as one despite there being different philosophies of how the game should be played and therefore creating communities with different goals, I’ve come to see that ultimately, there needs to be reform with how the banlists ought to be conceptualized, implemented and designed. 1) We should have one banlist intended to curate the evolving tournament play. Within the same document, there should be a disclaimer note providing a house ruling clause for the non tournament setting in bold. That’s it. Doing this enables us to evolve and properly refine the game mode that is EDH. Tournament play will be more pleasant and could diversify the current meta as it is. Casual players would be happy because they have free rein to create whatever house rules they need. A banlist for casual is not necessary if rule zero exists. Fun vs Unfun bans are too far down the subjective scale that there doesn’t need to be a committee to manage and define fun for an entire community. The RC ultimately only wanted to express what their interpretation of fun is under their rules document and how they like to play the game. They mentioned Rule Zero because they understand that they don’t want to take responsibility for everyone’s gameplay experience and they inferred as such on their philosophy document. I think we as a community have pushed a responsibility they’ve never aimed to hold on to. The ones starting the curated banlist are doing the right thing and we definitely need more iterations till the new generation RC better refines the tournament ban list. This could honestly take a year or two depending on gathered data. Conclusion: We’re headed in the right direction, there doesn’t need to be pointing fingers, and we just need to trust this process.

Ngl making another conquest sounds kinda dumb plus let’s be honest it seems like a money grab. Just have normal tournaments that maybe have unique rules on the occasion.

This proposed ban and unban cards are sweet in EDH. Just apply this in EDH, no need to set another set of ban list.

I'd kill to be part of a newer and better RC. Having played edh on every level for 10 straight years and seeing how each level has evolved, its been agonizing seeing how dumb the current RC is

Creating a new banlist is creating a new format. CEDH is the same format (rules and banlist) as non-competitive EDH, but played competitively with the sole objective being to win. If you introduce a new banlist it’s not cEDH anymore by definition, it’s tEDH or something. The format is being split by definition. Also the problems with EDH as a competitive format are too deep to be solved by just tweaking the banlist. If you want the experience of playing a version of EDH that’s more suited to competitive play, just adopt the Conquest rule set.

This is one of th few solid takes I've seen. Good job

Ideally wizards would team up with the RC to lay down a frame work for cEDH tournaments. Currently rhe two stores near me run events, but keep them proxy as they are afraid to lose their WPS status. However that means certain decks become unplayable for most people. Gifts being banned while Intuition is unbanned is probably the most obvious case of that issue. If you have around 100€ to spend you can use gifts if not you are out of luck. While I doubt wizard will come out and declare proxies okay, I would hope the RC would stop the "sign post" bann approach. It doesn't work for Casual and it doesn't work for competitive play. I get what they are aiming for, but hoping enough people feel miserable to have a card shadow banned is simply not the way to run any format. Pauper shows us what the gold standard should be.

I live how no matter what side you're on, we all agree the RC is useless. 😂

As a casual player, it would ABSOLUTELY be better (for casuals and newcomers) to split the formats. No more rolling up at a table with the lying tryhard, and then the banlists can be tailored to the goals of two formats with different needs. We already call them different names. Commander. CEDH.

Thanks for the awesome content!

2 commander fnm games later: 7 turns total to lose 2 games and 3 hours at the lgs. It took as long to mulligan first game as to play it.

First to note you didn't disappoint. I always look forward to your clam rational thoughts. As a cedh CC and tournament grinder in one of the most cedh populated communities [N.E USA], i don't see real true blue players complaining. Post game discussing about how this was nuts and broken aside. It isn't a turn 1 format by any means. The most games i'd guess average end turn 4-6. For the last few months there is a rise in Rog/si which does push fast attempts very early. But the faster you go the more blown out you can get. Very skilled Rog/si players access the board very well thus it appears they are always winning. The true culprit is greedy keeps and lack of skilled mulligan skills. As with it being a new bloom of growth a lot of newer players funnel into the format weekly. It takes an absurd about of game play to really learn the basic skills of tournament cedh game play.

Eisenherz is so correct here, it hurts T_T

Can’t see the point of Ban Rhystic. Because there’s a huge stack? Are we cedh players right? If you want to play to a high level of a game, you should know and understand the rules. To me it doesn’t make sense to complain about how difficult could be the stack at some point… plus on a 100 card deck format there’s nothing better than draw cards. I really don’t understand this Ban. Also, unban golos please ❤

A fractured banlist wont work. It will confuse the playerbase, muddy the waters for new players, and frustrate the reps top players are getting in to master specific decks. Just listening to bosh discuss his run to first place with rog si in the topdeck tourney was enough to understand that bans should probably never happen in this format. It is so rich and so difficult to master and manage that years and years of grinding on specific decks are not even enough to learn all there is on a deck. Cedh draws so many people for exactly this reason. The RC knows what it is doing and is making the right choice. In a world where every format is a rotating format, players are sick of it and cedh is growing specifically because the format doesnt rotate

“No bans” =\= “not managing the format.” And comparing the philosophy of why cards are proposed to be unbanned is completely antithetical to the philosophy of the RC, it shouldn’t come as a surprise that the RC doesn’t do it. Either way, I have respect for the folks trying it.

I think the play to win guys have a really interesting take on the rhystic ban in their last or second to last podcast

Important video. I like the specific suggestions for bans/unbans, especially the unbans. Across every video game with a competitive scene I have ever engaged with it has always been true that environments where devs enforce an active or proactive approach/ frequent bans were healthier than those where a passive/ laissez-faire role was favored. If adjustments overshot they could easily be remedied following that same approach. I wish the rc would be a little more open to this kind of thinking.

DO IT DOOO IT

Democratic banlist sounds really good! I love the idea!

Like some others I think this Proposed List is tailored too much towards tEDH. The goal should be to create a Ban List that Casual and cEDH Players will both want.

Personally I like the idea of banlist. Ideally I down the line I would love to have two power level banlist but I know wee are not enough players for this to makes sense for any committee to manage without literally being wotc themselves. However my wish could end up being true just by what it is happening now. The RC banlist being the broken almost vintage level to play the format and the new banlist trying to be a thought out and balanced way to play the format. I have to wonder if they are going to ban commanders or cards for taking too much time equity. For instance ban seedborn muse because thrasios or kinnan with the card takes too much time and allows players to play basically 4 turns per rotation. For those who are new won't remember the grind fest that the table turned into if someone didn't win early.

Most of our playgroup is tired of rhystic study. Its been the best card in the format for years

This format do not need bans, especially rhystic study (and i dont even play blue lol). Just the idea of bannig rhystic sets the mood of this tournament banlist thing imho. Rhystic has to be respected when on the field and possibily removed...not banned because ppl wanna go turbo no matter what The best thing is unbanning cards that are banned for basically no reason Bans from players, no matter who the player is, are always full of personal feelings So, for me personally, if cards gets unbanned im ok, but if other cards gets banned i personally wont play in that environment Its better to implement stuffs like the first player do not draw a card etc

I think the proposed list is a great place to start. I think theres definitely more unbans and bans to make but if the idea is to currate the list over time and let the meta adjust slowly it makes sense to keep it small to start with. I also like that theres more unbans than bans, that needs to continue as well. The one shitty part of all of this is that no matter what we do, the rules committee essentially gets to say they were right all along.

The commander philosophy document does mention that the bans are essentially signposts and that it is meant to be a guideline for playgroups as to what things to not to play, so I believe that local specific banlists are 100% within the spirit of the format and if tournament organisers believe that their tournament could be significantly better by banning/unbanning cards then I definitely agree that testing that is the way to find out. The only really big challenge I could see is that it adds more work to tournament players to keep up with the current tournament's banlist, what that means for their deck (for example: not being able to play Rhystic does make some commanders a much worse choice) and keep more lists active to match each potential banlist. I am a person who mostly plays cEDH "casually" and does very little tournament play so maybe this isn't actually a problem at all for people who are actual regular tournament grinders. Overall though I think it's a bit harsh to call out the Commander RC for not curating a competitive format when they have actively stated that their goal is not to do so. However I emphatically agree that the solution if people want to have a managed competitive format is to DO IT and not just to complain so I definitely support this experiment.

As a casual EDH player, I think it would be best for CEDH to tailor its own ban list. EDH does not really have a ban list, it has an example ban list that bans a bunch of signpost cards with a focus on casual EDH (and has not really be updated). That management model (example signpost bans with a focus on rule 0) is a bad model for a competitive format. Check how 3 card blind is managed as a competitive community format in contrast to how EDH is managed as a casual community format. The main question is whether a CEDH banlist would be successfully sold as as official ban list for CEDH, or whether players hear it as a houserule. If a ban list is adopted by a critical mass, then there would be a split between CEDH and EDH but not a split between TEDH and CEDH. There would just be 2 example ban lists with the CEDH one as the default for CEDH. I wish you luck.

I just want it to be official - something that will come up on Scryfall or Gatherer when you click to see if a card is legal in the format. I don't want some kid to catch a DQ because he trusted the search function. Alternately, I don't want them not putting a potent card in their deck only to get killed by another player using it only to have the TO turn and say, "oh yeah we don't follow that list". Whatever the card pool ends up being, as long as it is consistently applied.

Unban Erayo

As always very good video and opinion on this topic, tbh i don't complain about the state of Cedh but before make any claims about bans or unbans they should do it very carefully and do it right away , not with a draft or " this is not set in stone" but people need to adjust decklist and this things has an effect on the market so its not to be taking lightly. Anyways we stay cool and see what happens

Leovold!?? So it's definitely meant to split the format then. Considering that card got banned for being absolutely miserable in casual

Ban RL cowards

I prefer the actual cEDH banlist, is better that way, a very fast 3v1 format

Perplexing chimera is genuinely perplexing as a consideration can someone explain rhia tk me

Cedh and edh are already different formats.

cEDH is the antithesis to how the EDH format is meant to be played. I love cEDH, but if I'm being brutally honest here, to expect them to cater to us in any way, shape or form is a ridiculous and entitled idea. If you don't like a format that isn't managed competitively than EDH, including cEDH, just isn't for you. Go play something else

as a casual edh player, i think cedh should have its own ban list, i dont care for the rc and think they do a terrible job, but i also dont want a banlist of cards that just arent relevant to most tables. edh is meant to be a casual format, playing it competitively was going to cause problems anyway.

Ngl I usually enjoy your videos but you honestly lost me when you said that you wanted to be part of the new panel. Makes me feel like there is a motive behind supporting them.

It's quite a stretch to say that the RC is "mismanaging the format" or "not doing their jobs" when you're also claiming that cEDH is "the fastest growing competitive format" and Commander continues to be the most successful and played format in MTG. The RC's job is not to cater to cEDH players. They're doing quite well at what is, frankly, the Herculean task of managing the largest format using easily understood and available philosophy. I'm sorry to cEDH players who want change, maybe they're coming from other competitive games/formats where rapid changes and "mix things up" bans are the norm, but Commander is supposed to be stable and that kind of management goes against the philosophy that brought the format so much success. ~~Just play Canadian Highlander instead~~

Another failed attempt at a takeover of a copyrighted format in a copyrighted game! If people keep pushing they will take it over and ban all proxies! Not the ban people will be looking for! Scott Larabee is on the committee and the Senior Operations Manager of wizards of the coast! If you think you take his baby format away from him good luck with that!

My problem with the tournament ban list is that it feels antithetical to CEDH as a whole. CEDH's selling point is that it's the same format the casual players are playing, just with a rule zero of "Your deck is legal by the rules of Commander". Following that same logic, it actually makes sense that the RC should cater the banlist 100% towards CEDH play, as every other power level in existence can filter out cards they don't want to see. The RC's statements on the value of rule zero actually helps the argument that they should make the banlist be CEDH focused as that's the only power bracket that actually gives a shit about it.

As someone who comes from Yugioh: You have an incredible chance to force change. Take it. If the people managing the banlist aren't doing anything stop yapping and start splintering.

I don't see the problem with TEDH splintering off from the format, and I don't think shaming the EDH RC or WotC for a lack of involvement is productive for anybody. Nobody in their right mind is trying to get Nintendo to remove Steve from Super Smash Bros. Ultimate by the company, they just self-regulate, and it's fine. If CEDH players self regulate into this tournament environment, then the support will follow. the point of EDH is that it is hilariously broken and everyone knows it. we are a format of gentleman's agreements. CEDH's gentleman's agreement is just that there is no gentleman's agreement other than playing to win... and if you're sick of winning with the same stuff, then like... try introducing those same gentleman's agreements and create TEDH.

Alot of players do enjoy the current meta. tournaments banlist is effectively a rule 0.

I think that the problem a lot of people having with calling out the RC is that imho, it's being called out for the wrong reasons: I do not believe that they basically take no action in banning cards because that's what they think the format should be. I say this because otherwise they wouldn't spend any time and effort releasing any articles or updates at all or talking about a system to include un-cards and such. I simply believe based on more than enough admissions from the RC directly, that they probably feel a lot of pressure coming directly from WotC to basically not change anything at all if they can help it: It's no secret that the RC has more than incidental access to WotC and they've talked about going as far as seeing some new cards before they're made public. They even have the Commander Advisory Group with influencers that *we know* work with and are directly sponsored by WotC. So while WotC might not officially have any control over them, do you really think they would spend millions of dollars every year in designing new cards specifically for commander if they had no control over it? Do you think a corporation like Hasbro would be ok with putting the sticker 'Commander Deck' on many of their most popular products period (For the entire corporation mind you, not just WotC) If they could be told 'Oh the RC just decided that it's going to ban like the 5 best cards on your brand new commander decks you still sell on shelves right now and are still part of the marketing budget'? I am more than sure that they've managed to let the RC know their position:"Talk about commander all you want (That helps us sell products ultimately) but don't think too hard about starting to ban cards out of the format otherwise we'll just take it over and we'll see who's last standing on a legal battle after we've build enough years of official commander products to just register the Trademark for it."

lmao really just says you have to fix it by adding me?? wow