Video

Hi that's something I never have looked at....

You can email Shane at: Wecracksafes@aol.com this safe tech is in NC

Thanks!!!

First to verify you have a straight tailpiece like mine turn handle and turn dial to see if the dials freezes up. That's a three wheel lock plus the drive wheel. So dial 4xL 3xR 2xL and 1x Right. Only the drive wheel has false gates not the other wheels.

@@johnwickpick8621 okay thanks I'm going to see it monday. The customer said the combo works but the handle just turns and stop but can't get door open. she said she turns the handle ccw. Said the handle turns a little more then normal before it stops she thinks

@mikefinley4713 If the handle turns after combo is dialed it's possible something is stuck in the door frame. Either give the door a hard pull or even hit the door near the open edge then pull on it. May need a heavy hand sledge to hit door with

@@johnwickpick8621 That's what I was thinking , and hopefully I can pry the door open alittle to get it free

@@johnwickpick8621 It feels like the bolt assembaly is moveing but it sounds like something might be loose. And the dial doesn't bind when I put and hold pressure on handle. can you give me the DP'S for the bolts so I can bunch them back to open. Please

I know there not easy, remember a long pointer helps with readings. You could start by parking all wheels then move only the drive wheel or last wheel around in other direction. If nothing park all wheels in different spot and try again.

Thanks!!

You place one sticker on dial ring at 12 o'clock the other sticker right on a contact point. You feel for the contacts that are light usually around 95 and 5, somewhere around there. There will be two contacts you wanna use the right contact.

@@johnwickpick8621 thank you

I heard about that big story, everyone who gets a gun safe should change the combo to there own personal one.

Yeah thanks I know what ya mean...

That wall safe is really tricky to manipulate, I think it will need to be drilled with a very small hole and scope. sometimes thats the best way.

You ain't kidden it was tough, but had some practice with noise I used to compete in manipulation contests at lock conventions and there was plenty of background noise there.

Thanks buddy...

If the hinge is on the Right side then Yes handle moves UP. Some of them Mosler have a double cam for strength So Yes I think your not hitting it with a heavy enough sledge use at least a 3lb hammer. Make sure your pulling up on handle at same time.

@@johnwickpick8621 Well I guess maybe the hole is slightly in the wrong place.. Because when I pull up on the handle, I almost see the cam pass the hole.. So handle goes up-- which makes the cam go down; so my punch is only hitting the very top point of the cam (where the curved side meets the flat top edge of the cam). I feel like my hole may have wondered a bit maybe.. Because it's almost over 5" deep to reach the cam.. it's much deeper than I thought it would be... Another thing is-- like I was saying-- the large punches we have are tapered and really they are too big and are wedging into the hole, and everything else keeps bending.. So I'll probably have to go buy a hardened bolt that's the right length and size, or at least a straight punch (not tapered). I guess I can drill another hole right below it if I have to.. If the handle goes up any more, the cam will be passed the hole completely. We did get the handle to pop and move a bit-- but I don't think it went quite far enough, because the door still wouldn't open. Thanks again.. I'm going to keep beating on it. :) (I'm using a 5lb maul.. it's heavy and long handle.. the hammer isn't the issue.)

@@johnwickpick8621 One last update- I guess that "pop" in the handle did slip it past the lock, because when I would yank on the door, it was loose and seemingly wanting to open.. So I stood over it and pulled up hard and the doors opened a good 1/2" or more.. I could get pry bars under the edge of the door.. but there was still something snagging and holding it.. I forgot to mention that the second door's handle had already been removed or broken.. So I'm thinking that second door was hanging it up. So we were wrenching on the 'good handle" (on the right door-- by the lock) a little too hard.. and unfortunately now that handle also twisted off. I didn't realize that it was brass and made to brake away or I would have been a little easier.. Honestly I think the previous owner had already half way twisted it off because it was facing in a weird direction and not the same as what I see in pictures.. So I think I'm going to go ahead and cut a big crawl hole in it.. It will be fun, if nothing else. Thanks again.. Cheers

You can order it through: RCvanwinkle@hotmail.com The guys name is Richatd.

Is the safe an old antique it might use handle pressure to create contact points. Not all locks have a spring assist lever that make contacts. Group 1 locks have a second line for changing. I know Diebold locks have only top index and need a listening device to find contacts. Sounds like one you may have to drill open.

@ckpick8621 It says Mosler on the front panel.. It says nothing on the dial itself. I'm pretty sure Diebold bought Mosler.. so maybe it is the lock you're saying-- that needs a listening device. One thing is, we have it laid on it's back at the moment (on my trailer). So the doors are facing up to the sky.. That would definitely effect the lever if it's not spring assisted. The dial is not exactly free spinning either.. It's not bad, but you can feel slight resistance through around half the dial.. It's just kinda firm in general. It's very smooth, but it feels like it's covered in old grease.. It's like trying to spin a knife in peanut butter. It spins-- there's just a steady resistance there..... It's quite big with two doors. about 5ft wide and 4ft tall with the wheels, maybe 2.5ft deep. Numbers say.. serial no: 18868-14 model no: 11 I can't find much info on it. From lists I've seen people post, this might be a 1966.. not sure. It's very institutional looking.. Like something you would see in a hospital or government building or something. Very square and basic. It's obviously lined with concrete and is well over 1000 lbs. I don't know exactly where to drill.. If you know how to find it, please do tell. Otherwise, I was thinking about cutting/ busting a hole in the bottom, big enough to crawl into.. Then I can pull the back of the lock and easily decipher the combo from looking at the wheels. I'd like to avoid that if it's possible; it wouldn't be too hard to repair.. I have a welder and know how to pour concrete, etc.

@calholli You have a Mosler double door fire safe. Them locks hardly give anything and with a tight dial forgot it. I can tell you how to drill it on the right side door. The safe will have hardened plate not thick but you need high rpm and a carbide bit. Measure carefully from dial center 2-3/4" Left of dial center and 3/4" UP. Drill straight a 1/4" hole is really all ya need. You will drill outer skin then fire insulation then hardplate then inner skin then breakthrough. When you breakthrough you will hit the tip of the handle cam you can tell by wiggling handle and see it or feel it with a ice pick. (Don't drill through this) Now hold UP on handle insert some type of punch and give it some hits. The cam will move past the lock and open. You may need a few 6" bits to finish door is kinda thick. Carbide bit can be 4" With safe on back it helps because you can you use your body weight to drill the hardened plate!

Extra note: Use a mini sledge when you hit punch the handle cam is fairly thick to bend out of way. My measurements are from dial center so 2-3/4" Left and 3/4" UP from dial center.

@ckpick8621 Awesome... I appreciate it. I will keep that in mind as a last resort. For now, I have some cheap piezoelectric sensors and a good oscilloscope; I'm going to see if I can get better readings with it. I think I found the contact points-- If I keep spinning in the same direction (after picking up all the wheels) -- I can feel it and hear it make contact in the same spot every time around... I just can't hear it or feel it when I creep up to it slowly. So I'm going to play around with it a bit more and test these sensors for fun.. see if I can crack the dial like youtube says I can. :) .. The bad thing about drilling is that I have to drill through that little decretive aluminum front cover, and there's not really a good way to cover that up afterwords. If I cut through the bottom.. I can always weld over it and then pour new concrete in the bottom, etc.. Place another plate inside the bottom, or whatever; and the rest of the safe would look stock and undrilled. IDK, I'm still deciding.. I appreciate your help I guess I could drill through the outer aluminum cover with like a 1" hole saw (and drill the rest like normal, with 1/4 carbide bit).. And once I get it open, I can put a hardened bolt into the hole and weld it to the front plate -- since I have clearance.. and then slip a big washer over the bolt head, covering the hole saw hole in the outer aluminum cover and welding it to the bolt head... Might still look decent. I guess I could just remove the little aluminum cover completely How do you normally patch holes after drilling a safe? Or do you just consider it damaged goods and unusable now? I'd like to repair it-- one way or another. Either way, it's a fun project. I got the safe for free and they said it hasn't been opened since the 60's.. So there might even be something in it.. But I just want to get it working again and keep it looking decent... I'll let you know how it turns out. ps. I have two other safes that I deciphered the code from-- but both of them were already open; so I just had to pull the lock and watch the wheels as I turn the dial. So a part of me really wants to get this just by spinning the dials. lol. we'll see; like you said- the lock isn't giving me much indication.

Thanks for the tip I'll pick a pair up!

I'm near Niagara Falls NY

On some locks they do, but I would say for cost effective. Anything extra like building a mold with false gates probably costs more. And manipulation is difficult people trying to break in surly won't take the time to practice manipulation.

​@@johnwickpick8621 Thank you very much for your reply. but due to translation difficulties, I was not quite able to understand it... did some manufacturers make false gates on the discs? but is it on expensive versions? and no one has tried to find a code for them? and just drilled?

@spiriter1988 Yes correct some manufacturers did. They can be manipulated but are even harder then normal

I got this long time ago in a safe class, they no longer make them maybe find something on line you can use

@@johnwickpick8621 Thanks I will look around and see what I can find

I found where you can get that magnetic dial ring, the ring cost is $80.00 and the pointer is $20.00 Here is the email address: rcvanwinkle@hotmail.com. his name is Rich Van Winkle

thanks for the info I'll drop him an email@@johnwickpick8621

thanks for the info. I tried to send him an email at the address you said but it keeps saying it;s no good. do you have another address ?@@johnwickpick8621

Thank you Sir

No I didn't guess 80 was on wheel three. I park wheels 1 and 2 and just run 3 near 80 to see a change. If there is no change I'll park wheel 1 and 3 and just run wheel 2 near 80 and look for change to narrow it down. Not sure what you mean by brute force safe open, once you find two numbers of a three number combination you just run the last wheel until it opens You don't manipulate the last number.

Thanks for the reply. Wish you would make more videos! I suppose parking 1 and 2 and checking 80 on 3 is correct. I would have done the same thing or done a high test, by setting wheel 1 outside the checkpoint area, setting wheel 2 on 90 then wheel 3 on 80 and check the checkpoint. Then do the same thing but with wheel 2 on 80 and wheel 3 on 90. That will tell you which wheel has the gate at 80. Running the last wheel is the same as brute force.@@johnwickpick8621

Only run one wheel at a time and park the others, I realize you have to turn the drive cam wheel but just return it to the same number. This way you will know which wheel a gate is. Also try not to even "Not" look for a gate. Just run each wheel by itself around parking the others. Take best reading from each wheel and continue same process over. Soon a real gate will pop out

When you say first gate are you looking for the driver gate or wheel three gate

I believe the driver gate… it looks like three numbers make the needle move to the left! Do you have anywhere I can personally msg or call? Would love to hear some advice or help

Could be high spots on wheels are hiding your driver gate. Try parking all wheels left at 30 then run driver gate around right only. If nothing try 50 left then driver to the right, then try 70 and run only driver You should get a low reading on driver by parking wheels. At least then you cam start with the process

@@johnwickpick8621I have an old Halls jewelry safe I am trying to open but I have the 5 digits. Could you tell me what the turning sequence would be? Thank you,

@hoosierbengal163 That should being a jewelers have four wheels and a driver which makes five. So the sequence would be 5 times Right to first number Then Left 4 times to next number. (every time you line that number up it counts as a turn) Them 3 times Right to next number. Then 2 times Left to number Then Right until the Dial comes to a Stop to Open.

Yes all types of course many have to be drilled depending on its symptoms

Thanks manipulation is tricky and takes concentration so you make the right moves with the dial. I constantly run into people who can't open there safe even with the combination cause of one wrong dial turn.

Should be a 3 wheel lock. Which is 2 wheels and a driver. If your looking for the 3rd number or driver number and nothing shows then wheels 1 or 2 is hiding it. You must park the other wheels in different positions and try running 3 by itself. If nothing shows park them again at different numbers. Once you find a low spot on other wheels then 3 will show up. It don't take long to run 3 so keep parking 1 and 2 it don't matter where you park them. Eventually you have to find a low spot.

Will give that a try,,,, Thanks,,,

One more question,,,what would be the dialing sequence for a 3 number combination,,,

Yeah before the stickers I would use masking tape with a sewing needle cut down as pointers worked good

OK, right now I'm using yellow electrical tape on both sides and draw a line between them with a black pen. Cheers.

Thanks really appreciate it

Sharp observation your right

Yes it's possible it all depends on how good the contact points are. If you can find good contact points like in my video you have a chance of doing it

I will keep trying. Have you ever come across this type of safe or ever heard of any like it? Thanks

@L Hammer I have come across them but didn't manipulate it. As long as there's contacts points it's always possible but if the contact points are real soft or mushy feel that makes it lot harder to read.

Ya if they called it a sheet rock box nobody would buy it

@@johnwickpick8621 lol

Yale usually is gear driven with no contacts could try 50 25 50 but probably need to be drilled

@@johnwickpick8621 Ok thank you!

No that would be similar to a regular lock like on my gun safe video. Usually Diebold lock does not have a lever spring and that makes it even harder to do.

Once a number is found its easier to determine which one it is. Running all three wheels takes longer to find the right wheel once a number is found. Once I find a number on 2 or 3 I will only run that wheel alone a few numbers high and low of the number and see which wheel indicates better. If you park the wrong wheel you will be wasting anymore attempts. So that's why I run only 2 and 3 its a 50 50 chance of getting it right