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Let's hope so! I have to do a tournament 3 weekends in a row to do it so it's not 100% set in stone but I want to make it happen

Hah I just filmed the video on this topic today. 2 videos from now all (well... some) will be revealed

@@PhilippoVadi I'll check back in a day or two then :)

Lol thanks. As predicted, I forgot.

This actually came up in another conversation I had about the kickstarter. It's not in the documentation because this came up later, but it's a very valid concern. We have a possible stretch experiment that will likely get added to the candidate list: taking a broken sword, adding a tip, and dropping it a number of times against a target until it fails. If we do it for several tips of the same kind we can come up with a meaninful failure rate. There's a lot of detail to work out on this protocol still (how many tips? What target? What height/heights of the drop? How many broken swords of different varieties?) but it's in principle doable.

@@PhilippoVadi Very happy it came up and you guys are considering it! I do understand that it won't be a primary target, but fact you guys at least consider makes me very happy! :) Did I understand that the protocol is mostly finished? It's just the case with tipped broken swords where it's not fully covered?

@@artifact2454 The base experiment protocol is basically finished. We need to consider a few elements to control variables still. The first is the exact pattern of how the fencer strikes the mask to make sure we get a good spread of angles of striking, and the second is we need to finalise how many strikes at each drop height we'll do for test 2. The latter is a balance between getting statistically significant results and driving up the cost - each ballistic gel target is a one-use item. The stretch experiments will all need further work though. We're not going to fully design them until we have some better idea of how many and which ones we'll be doing.

"for example, in Russian tournaments, in a situation where the first hit is in the hand and the afterblow is in the head, no one gets points" - That artificially favours the person in the lead. The score could be 1-0 and for the final exchange you can just do a random one handed cut not caring about a double and be certain of winning the match. That's a stupid rule and promotes terrible fencing. "Weaker"? 🤣

@@adamtennant4936 I wrote that no one gets a point. The person who hit the first hand does not stand out if he received an afterblow, that's fair. It's not fair to single out a person who hits an afterblow, how do you imagine such a shot in life? After a cut in the hand, can a person deliver a normal blow through pain and lack of nerves? You only have to glance at the eastern fencers (Fabian, Olbryskha, Kultaev, the Vasilyev brothers, Usoltsev and many others) and you will understand that they are monsters compared to their Western colleagues. Hema in Russia is the most developed in the world, for example. According to the collected statistics, this country has the most clubs and people, the most tournaments. The Russians came up with Hemagon (a rating system and platform for online analysis of tournaments), which recently hosted the Helsinki Cup. Russia now has the most serious competition in the world, there are incredibly strong athletes (you can see everything for yourself on the VK platform in club groups). Nikolai Aslamov writes scientific works, transforming ancient traditions into easy-to-learn practice and much more. (I don’t want to belittle anyone, I just didn’t like the organization of this tournament) I really want the development of Hemа and a systematic approach to this sport

@@user-dd6mm1ex9y "I wrote that no one gets a point." - Yup, and it's still a stupid rule that promotes bad fencing because it means if you're ahead at last exchange you can do a suicidal cut to a poor target and be 100% sure of winning the match. It also means that there's less down side for leaving yourself open during any cut. Not sure why you think suicidal fencing is a good idea? "how do you imagine such a shot in life? After a cut in the hand, can a person deliver a normal blow through pain and lack of nerves? " - It's not just about reality, it's about creating a tournament environment that encourages good fencing. The #1 sabre HEMA fighter in the world is heavily involved in running our tournaments and making these rule sets. 🤷‍♂ "I don’t want to belittle anyone" - and yet you just did in a very rude and blatant way...

lol guys. You'll love the upcoming Coffee & HEMA videos where I talk about how all rules are equally stupid and gameable. There are issues with both of these ways of determining the "winner" in an exchange where you both got hit (you both fucked something up) The judges did a good job here. They are conferring because it's fast and each judge has only one angle. In all of this match there's only one I disagree with, which is the cut that comes to my shoulder and they call head - this is a difficult thing to distinguish between in a split second. That exchange only made 1 point difference and would not have altered the final result, except maybe the psychology of the final exchange would have been different.

@@PhilippoVadi Yeah, that was the only one I thought they missed as well, which is good going.

Hey Bryan - thanks for the offer. The short version is that not for phase 1 of the project, but some of the stretch experiments may require some specialist knowledge to design. If you message our facebook page we can get in touch if needed.

More research is always required. In an ideal world there would be funding bodies and several research teams looking at a wide range of risks: we don't live in that world, hence needing a community funded project. I'll be the first to promote and back any other teams coming along in future to do more research. And yes I'm confident we can deliver. I brought in the other 3 precisely because they have relevant professional expertise for all aspects of the project. We've run pilot studies to test that the protocol worked, and shared our test rig designs with engineers who provided useful comments. The only thing we're missing to do this is the funds

@@PhilippoVadi Also the devising of tests(plural) that give us an unbias data on how the different feder point profiles , uncapped and uncapped behave not only against different profiles of masks and mesh composition in an exhaustive manner.....that s why I haven t even try it. First I dont have any engineering background....I do some background on health sciences but not on kinesiology for example....and definitively I don t have the resources.

And talking about devising test we have this attemp I guess for demonstrative purposes from our friends of Cymborgi...funny enough this was published short to a week before you guys published your thing...on this video we can see Derk Nash hitting a mask with rapier and longsword....I think I can hear the old man or another of the guys on the background. So yes basically a test comes to this....but should we account for the average body mass of historical fencer in full equipment, partial equipment and or just mask.....we need different directions for trajectory but in a consistent manner...not like this obviously lol. Variation on intensity....accounting the different sword profiles and mask profiles and specs...and this is just mask to feder action.....Shall we account at some point for the cervical range of motion/resistance etc.....this video is kind of hilarious but it does make us think of all the elements we can or dont need to account for: czcams.com/video/J5hQzAGSw6Y/video.html

@@PhilippoVadi And then again , that lack of "ideal"can lead us to false or not so thorough results and data thereof. ...on the other hand, if no one does it, who will...it s a crappy situation

None of those ideas have ever been rigorously tested by anyone, and the degree of traction is highly relevant, not just whether a point sticks sometimes. The pilot study had all tip types catching on a mask at least some of the time, but the frequency and degree varied. That's what we need to test. Same with the puncture risk: at a high enough force any tipping method will do damage, but can we mitigate that without also greatly increasing pushing the mesh? No one knows, hopefully soon we will.

@@PhilippoVadi My concern is...we are focusing on the mask and we may be considering the "why"we started placing the caps on the steel trainers on the first place. Bare steel on fabric and mesh still present a way more dangerous scenario .

I also feel that most of the bad rap against the rubber caps comes from being a nuisance. the truth is and in my personal experience I have been waffled/whiplashed exclusively by un-capped bare mostly spatulated thrusts to the mask...which I know is weird. But I know first hand how a bare point still produce traction on a fencing mask.

@@417hemaspringfieldmo I think most of the bad rap is many people still like to think as their training weapon as 'a sword' and don't want anything that makes it look 'less swordy'. I hear 'I don't like it' more from people not wanting to put one on their own sword than I do from people getting stabbed with them. The 'it sticks on masks' situation is more an anecdotal defence than something I commonly witness.

@@mikegrey3835 I have also met these...specially on a local club. This guy hated them , mainly because it was not the look he wanted. I was always like Safety trumps everything else everytime.

There are no international bodies or standards looking at this risk actually. EN13567 (fencing protection standard) specifies the angle the mesh must be, but there is no striking test specified in it. And the FIE fencing weapon standard specifies size, flex and weight but has no striking test in it. If manufacturers are testing it, it's not due to an international standard and they're not publishing the results. Even if they did test this, Olympic fencing weapons are ~1/4 the weight and ~8x the flex of many HEMA weapons - and have very different built in tip features. Concussions in Olympic fencing are vanishingly rare and all major safety standard changes in recent times have been focused on puncture risk from a broken blade. Despite this, they never use soft tips. In short there are different risks and different equipment at play and we should not expect any tests done for Olympic fencing to be directly transferable to HEMA (and they aren't testing for concussion risk at all)

@@PhilippoVadi Then how the manufactures of equipment for Olympic/sport fencing are regulated?

@@PhilippoVadi The first thing we should focus then is the qualities of the biebs fabric, fabric composition of jackets and trousers and the mesh of the masks. Because our steel sword trainers are not really standardized like the Olimpic/sport fencing are. Right?

@@PhilippoVadi The rubber caps are just the tip of the iceberg...and probably not really the problem. They have been a bandaid to the problem. The best we could do when presented with breaks on the fabric , mesh and skin. Whiplash and contusion may be secondary....and btw whiplash and contusion at times are a direct result of bad sizing of the mask and poor training. But that s a whole different can of worms.

And thanks again guys to look into this...but we need more people , with more varied expertise to get to the bottom of this. I mean if we want to keep the intensity , historical value and the use of decent analogs to the archaeological pieces.

This is a very hard risk to test as the details of angle etc that contribute to it are poorly understood. It can possibly be tested using experiment 2 and an adjustment to the drop rig to be at an angle, or possibly a different style of rig to simulate a cut. It's not going to be included in the base experiment, but if we exceed the stretch goals we could test this as well. We'd need to do a pilot study to scope it out first.

All HEMA tournament rules are regional, there is no standard. Albion cup scores 3 for head and torso thrust, 2 everything else. And it's the top 500 by HEMA Ratings, so no it's global hemaratings.com/periods/details/?ratingsetid=1 The judges did a good job. Cuts through a parry are hard to see.

​@@PhilippoVadiI prefer 2 & 3 point scoring to 1 & 2 point, as it's effectively a bonus point for clean exchanges.

@@messeringaround1426 Yeah that was pretty explicitly the reasoning behind it - it was felt that any clean hit should score higher than points gained through both fencers getting struck.

Apologies this is mislabelled from a bad copy paste - this was a pool match. I'll correct it.

This is a fascinating topic that I can't complete in one video so you've helped me come up with the next few ;) I heavily dislike hard penalties on doubles. It comes from an overly simplistic view that all doubles are caused by two fencers attacking without care, where as in reality many are from relatively small errirs in technique or judgement (eg a counter thrust 2cm off ideal or 1/4 second late is a double). I also don't see any "moral" difference between getting hit cleanly, in a double or in an afterblow: i got hit, that was bad,,regardless of the test l rest. Having any double result in 0 score is worth exploring. It will also reduce a lot of judging errors as target can be hard to determine in those exchanges. My preferred solution is full scoring, but this requires you to think about other aspects for it to work. For this, both fencers gain the same points they would if hit cleanly. If you then pair that with a score cap or exchange limit, every double brings you closer to the natural end of the fight. If you then also pair that with hits received or points difference affecting rankings, it also then reduces the maximum score they can get. Downside? Only works in pools where standings matter more than wins, so if you want it to work you need a format without elims. You're right in general though that all rule sets are gameable and have issues - the best thing is to try it out and see what happens. I'll make a few videos to share my experiences of different rulesets.

@@PhilippoVadi Excellent, looking forward to the scoring mini series. Does Britain use HEMA scorecard? (Their formula for weighted scoring could be a whole video) It's too convenient around here to not get used but no organizer can change the weighted system on the backend--as far as I'm aware--and accumulating doubles within that software is BRUTAL to final standings. As in exponentially negative, so it makes doubles troublesome. A clubmate likes "weighted" or full-point afterblows so it's interesting to know it already exists elsewhere but it never occurred to us to remove doubles. As you mentioned, I like the alternative of only doubles (zero points) for it's ease of judging but I agree, doubles shouldn't be too punitive--though I do like a double loss after a certain amount of suicidal exchanges, haha. Simple scoring, judging, and somewhat "historical." But -1 afterblows make no sense to me. A lot to cover!

@ABetcetera yeah we do use scorecard. Since 2018 Wessex League, Albion Cup and more London HEMA open all used it. And Summer Sword Shenanigans, but that was an internal event. It's fantastic. If there's something you want to do in it and can't just email Sean - he has added features I've asked for multiple times and is happy to do it

Also the effect doubles have on final standing entirely depends on the option you select. Wessex/Albion uses wins|plus/minus (first sorts on wins, then point difference). If it had doubles, they wouldn't have any effect. Other options do but that's entirely organiser choice not the software

@@PhilippoVadi What a shame. That makes me even less of a fan of the scoring systems in my neck of the woods.

To my wife's continued frustration 😁

The commentary is the second best thing about these videos :)

Everyone always asks about it lol. It's an Aureus Alexander - I'm not sure if it's mk 3 or 4 as I got it second hand. The aureus are extremely nimble swords. It's short blade (97cm) and long handle (33cm) which makes it very easy to move at a cost of reach, so it's an ideal sword for middle and close play stuff which is where I prefer to play. Weight here is about 1450 i think. while short, it's not *so* short that I can't still use my reach advantage against much smaller fencers. The aureus are REALLY nice swords. They move well and are extremely durable. This one is 6 years old and hard use with very few issues (small rattle in the pommel). The Downside is that if you but them new they are about €600 with a year wait time.

@@PhilippoVadi Hey, thanks for the quick reply. Yeah while shorter it might be on the sweet spot for shorter feders, that you don't find so often, as there is a huge difference between 90cm and 97cm shorties with how much disadvantage/advantage you get. And I gotta say the sword is surprisingly light, compared to its impression, visually. Good to know that while 600$ the sword is a workhorse, if it last for two years at least, it justified the price tag pretty well, IMO. Thanks again, Jamie! Have a good one!

@dude4real9455 fyi just checked and its 1430g The blade looks bigger than it is because it has a deep wide fuller. This let's it remain stiff at the base and have thick edges while staying light and having good flex at the end where the fuller stops

@@PhilippoVadi Hard to argue the feder has a very "sword-esque aesthetic". At the same weight, most feder blades are underwhelmingly thin looking if not fullered.

Thanks. There's some strong contenders for that title, I don't think I'll claim it just yet :)

For most of them it's easy, and the same way as I do it in the guard series:I explain that the point can be low, up or forward and that sword is on left or right and left or right foot is forward. High guards you just have to show them but I'll usually say high for frontal/true window and "over front foot" for Falcon. For a workshop not all of them will usually be relevant but I'll use categories as relevant eg "from a guard on the right" "from a low guard" etc as it's pretty rare for me to demand a very specific guard.

Good spot. This is perhaps a little complicated for a comment, but I'll try. First, I think you're right on the connections in the text. This is one of several annoying parts where the ideas don't line up with the stanzas we actually see is 2 sets of 6 lines (i.e. stanza 7 connects to the first 2 line of 8, and the 2nd 2 lines in 8 start the ideas in stanza 9 which are unconnected). For anyone reading this without the book in front of them it reads: "And if your partner strikes at you and you suddenly Parry, then go for their head With the false edge and with good judgement. And as they push [your sword] upwards, strike a good backhand cut (riverso) From underneath their arms, cutting across Then doubling immediately with a forehand (deritto)." The initial false edge strike you're seeing here is what I think Vadi refers to in the half-tempo chapter (margin note names it "volaticha" which I translate to Swift-Strike) The reason I think Vadi likes the rising strike follow up is if you can do it smoothly it is incredibly difficult for the opponent to parry it - they're all the way over the other side of the body defending your first strike. However, I almost always use a descending cut. The action charged is a true-edge rising strike, which leads crossed arms position when done from the left. That strike is weak for a number of reasons: kit gets in the way, if it's parried you end up in a very weak crossing and if it's not parried it's difficult to recover to a safe position to block an afterblow as you often catch on the opponent's gloves or body. So the descending cut is less likely to land and doesn't charge the follow up, but easier to recover from whether it succeeds or not. The descending strike I'm using is the Turning cut (Rotare/stramazzone) described in the chapter prior so still taken from the book. BTW you can see the "rising strike to the arms followed by descending" in the first action for V:BTSe6, but this is swapped (rising forehand, descending backhand): czcams.com/video/GrjCC4tg8x8/video.html - but again as I don't like the crossed-arms rising strike this doesn't tend to come up for me with a reverse rising strike.

@@PhilippoVadi Thank you for taking the time to write such an extensive reply! I partly agree and partly disagree with you regarding the rising blow with crossed hands. I've found that the the factors you cite that make it a poor choice are somewhat mitigated by having one's hands more high than in front (again, a Meyer-ish thing) -- but I'm a short guy with correspondingly short arms and my full fencing kit prevents me from getting my hands up where they need to be.

It's a very unforgiving format for catching and correcting mistakes because you only have 3 exchanges. If someone has exploited your error twice, you've already lost the match. We spoke afterwards and he recognised the problem already and then when we sparred he was much better about trying other things, but in such a short match format you can't afford to make the same mistake twice

I certainly intend to continue the series. Tempo is next as it follows from guard naturally and that's at least 3 videos maybe more, and after that the long play/middle sword/close play distinction is the obvious next step. How many videos I do about each of those is still unplanned but yeah I think I've got minimum 10 more videos, likely way more.

In general I'd say they're less hassle than e.g. the spes ones that go outside, although maybe a bit more than some of the newer outside ones like the Thokk extended cuff. If you want to go from fencing with no arm guards (eg doing smallsword) then later add in arm guards that can be a pain because you have to take the jacket off. However just having the outer pad is really not restritictive at all, so what I usually do is put that pad in and leave it there, and then add or remove the inner pad as required by whatever activity. Taking them out is a 5 second task, putting them in 30 seconds so not super hard to switch regularly They are indeed very light. I have tried the thokk cuff once and find these are better protection and lighter, but require you to have a jacket with a tight sleeve.

@@PhilippoVadi Thanks for a very in detail reply! Well I've been relying on club gear for way too long, so I'm collecting my own now xP Well, probably I'll give them a shot once my jacket arrives (same jacket as yours). Gosh I've been waiting for it so flipping long now 😭 Thanks again for help <3

I believe it was white fencer's first tournament.

I'll do one this Friday when I'm packing for a tournament