Video

Many thanks my friend! It's indeed a difficult car but also very cool. Then I knew it would feel crazy to get back to the AWD, and for that occasion I picked the Quattro Group B. It was indeed so crazy that I even laughed as I was miserably sliding off the road at the very first corner :D. They are totally opposite worlds!

Indeed, though I picked the hardest car on purpose - or what I thought was the hardest one, since I've read WorkerBee many times talk about how hard it is. As of the stage, I first thought about one of the two Noiker Gravel stages for no special reason, but freaked out due to the high speeds. And in fact, the fast parts at 2:19 and 4:05 were the most intense for me. It can be felt on the hesitation on the throttle and the brake inputs, and the bad lines. It's a lack of confidence with the many little and delicate steering inputs required at such corner degrees and speeds (and bumpiness, in these cases). Hopefully I can get the hang of it or change my usual style which works for me with AWD, and keep the current steering filters. I usually do Tänak-esque maneuvers by setting the car for the corner quite early, throwing it sideways and leaning heavily on the tires while sliding over the line. It gives me good confidence to brake late and push the throttle early. If I manage to turn early enough, the car is already rotated by the time it arrives to the apex and straight for the exit and ready to go, so it's quite neutral steering after the initial aggressive rotation and maybe full throttle. Otherwise, I switch to letting the car build enough momentum and then let the rear step out while countersteering, using the rear axle largely. Sure it seems to work with the Porsche as well, but I guess that just sticking with the second style will simplify things for me. Thanks for the tips!

Yes. The physics are the same with keyboard or steering wheel, both in RBR and the real world, and the same goes for critical thinking. I mean, look at it, the real cars are spinning just like in RBR. Case closed.

@@zwjna lmao buy wheel or car at least and then talk which physics are realistic or not. this game is not even close to anything like real driving. accept it with your keyboard poor guy

@@harempolnomisia-69 This game has been proven realistic by real WRC drivers Nikolay Gryazin, Teemu Suninen, and Kalle Rovanperä, among other professional and amateur real drivers who choose it over any other game due to its realism. This is irrefutable: it's the best sim ever and it's pretty much like the real thing. It takes logic and intelligence, NOT a steering wheel, to come to this conclusion. Car behavior is the same regardless of the input device. Moreover, I had a steering wheel back then. Period.

@@zwjna buy wheel or a car and then answer you keyboard scientist.

@@harempolnomisia-69 The science is settled. Pro world-class drivers have proven it realistic not only with words, but also by driving it live on stream for the first time incredibly well compared to other rally (arcade) games, showing that their muscle memory from the real world works wonders on RBR, proving it incredibly realistic. Case closed. Until the next time.

Yes, I drive with keyboard (no hay plata). The steering has both Maximum Fade and Saturation Speed at 6 red bars, a Rise Rate of 3.0, and a Fall Rate of 5.0. The brake pedal has a Rise Rate of 5.0. And that's it! Everything else is at zero or Instant, including the throttle. To manage the power output, apart from using the obvious intermittent tapping on the throttle key, I use a lot of gear changes to manage the torque, and sometimes the brake key at the same time as the throttle, again with the appropriate gear changes to increase or reduce the torque to fight against the brakes and, therefore, controlling the wheels' rotation speed. To brake, I tap the brake key repeatedly to avoid locking up. For high-speed, straight-line braking, I like to hold the brake key as I downshift and blip the throttle many times to have the wheels rotating. I have a quick enough steering, that allows me to countersteer quite fast, but not so quick so that it doesn't gets annoying or makes it outright impossible to put smallish inputs. Here you can see the steering inputs: czcams.com/video/KOeTx7aViH0/video.html. Joux Plane is quite fast and wide so, to slow down, I use the sidewalls of the tires more than the brakes. Tänak/McRae style. In this stage with a lot of braking, czcams.com/video/UHCya0CgwBI/video.html, you can see the brake inputs on the gauge. On loose surfaces, keyboard works quite nicely. We don't change direction with the steering - rather, we use the steering to put the car in an angle to point the four wheels to the desired direction and have them thrusting the car towards there. The sideways friction is there compensating for the not-so-precise throttle inputs. But on tarmac, we actually change direction with the steering, so we need more precision on it an on the pedals that of course we lack. At least I can't drive that fast on tarmac.

@@zwjna You said it "no hay plata" jaja. Thank you very much for taking the time to give a very detailed answer. Are these steering values ​​applied to the axis or the button? It's true with what you say about the asphalt, that's where it's hard for me to make decent times. Example in Passo del Valle I am 12 seconds ahead and that is a long time, I think the problem is in the curve speed since with joystick or keyboard we lose time in those sectors. Are you Argentine? Because I saw the Argentine flag painted on the Hyundai I20.

@@FeddeVega They are applied on the Digital Button. Another important factor on tarmac, probably the most important one, is the braking. I'm experimenting with a more aggressive braking Rise Rate, so that it goes to 100% more quickly, and less brake pressure on the car's setup. Right now the brake pressure is high, but the brake input takes a bit to rise. So the braking is quite weak in the first milliseconds, but then the wheels lock up with the amount of pressure the brakes apply as the input rises to 100%. I will keep experimenting and then share the results, if they are any good. Soy argentino y también nativo de la República de Córdoba, la cuna del rally en Argentina! Qué cagada que no me compré el G29 a 20 lucas hace dos años. Ahora está a 650.000 MANGOS.

@@zwjna Yo también soy de Córdoba Capital, dejemos de hablar en ingles jajaja. Si en este momento es imposible comprar un volante decente.

I never created a setup for any WRC car other than the one I use in this video, the i20 WRC. If you did meant the i20, or if you want to try my i20 setup (or part of it) on the Yaris, here's it: Differentials (both front and rear): 75% lock on both Throttle and Brake. Springs (both front and rear): Length: 350 mm Stiffness: 24.0 kN/m Helper Length: 150 mm Helper Stiffness: 13.0 kN/m Geometry Front: Top Mount Position: 7 Wheel Axis Inclination: -1.43° Geometry Rear: Wheel Axis Inclination: 3.39° Rollbar / Steering: Front Rollbar Stiffness: 22.0 kN/m Rear Rollbar Stiffness: 21.1 kN/m (Normally I prefer the rear rollbar +10 kN/m stiffer than the front, but this car is super loose on the rear. So this value and the rear wheels inclination helped to make it more planted.) Dampers (Enhanced) Front: Bump: 2.45 kN/m/s Rebound: 4.70 kN/m/s Fast Bump: 5.70 kN/m/s Fast Rebound: 5.70 kN/m/s Rear: Bump: 2.51 kN/m/s Rebound: 5.00 kN/m/s Fast Bump: 6.00 kN/m/s Fast Rebound: 6.00 kN/m/s Thresholds on both: Fast Bump Threshold: 0.50 m/s Fast Rebound Threshold: 0.50 m/s (WorkerBee recommends 0.30 m/s thresholds, and so do damper manufacturers according to him, but Nikolay Gryazin has 0.50 m/s on his setup for this car, so I went with that instead!) Tyres Pressures: Front: 190 kPa Rear: 187 kPa (Pressures don't make much difference in NGP, it seems.)

@@zwjna awesome, thanks man

Many thanks for your support my friend!

There are different kinds of gravel, and thus grip levels. But none of them delivers EA WRC's grip levels. That is to say: the real cars never corner that fast; and they never look that toyish and fake due to those fake and arcade gimmicks designed to easily keep the car on the road for the average Joe. The real clips you see on this video showcase mistakes and out-of-control slides that can happen even on the grippiest gravel roads. Do you want even more proof, dog?

Thank you! The steering has both Maximum Fade and Saturation Speed at 6 red bars, a Rise Rate of 3.0, and a Fall Rate of 5.0. The brake pedal has a Rise Rate of 5.0. And that's it! Everything else is at zero or Instant, including the throttle. To manage the power output, apart from using the obvious intermittent tapping on the throttle key, I use a lot of gear changes to manage the torque, and sometimes the brake key at the same time as the throttle, again with the appropriate gear changes to increase or reduce the torque to fight against the brakes and, therefore, controlling the wheels' rotation speed. To brake, I tap the brake key repeatedly and sometimes I hold it pressed as long as the tyres don't lock up. To avoid locking up, I blip the throttle as well if I feel like it.

Thank you for your comprehensive reply. I've made changes and the ride has become smoother. Now in my rally4 car I have a time only 30 seconds worse than yours. Thank you for your support. Keep pushing. @@zwjna 💪

You mean touching less grass? I did, and went 5 seconds faster!

Sure! Though I made it through pure trial and error. Likely some settings are producing some unwanted results which are then fixed by other settings, so technically it kinda sucks. The suspensions don't properly absorb some bumps and jumps, and this was evident for me on my GB Sprint Extreme run, it was too bouncy at times. But I like the dynamics of the chassis. I wanted to imitate the dynamics of the gravel_v2 (something like that) setup for the Fabia R5, that I used to drive a lot. I didn't managed to nail it, but it drives good enough for me and I got used to it. Differentials (both front and rear): 75% lock on both Throttle and Brake. Springs (both front and rear): Length: 350 mm Stiffness: 24.0 kN/m Helper Length: 150 mm Helper Stiffness: 13.0 kN/m Geometry Front: Top Mount Position: 7 Wheel Axis Inclination: -1.43° Geometry Rear: Wheel Axis Inclination: 3.39° Rollbar / Steering: Front Rollbar Stiffness: 22.0 kN/m Rear Rollbar Stiffness: 21.1 kN/m (Normally I prefer the rear rollbar +10 kN/m stiffer than the front, but this car is super loose on the rear. So this value and the rear wheels inclination helped to make it more planted.) Dampers (Enhanced) Front: Bump: 2.45 kN/m/s Rebound: 4.70 kN/m/s Fast Bump: 5.70 kN/m/s Fast Rebound: 5.70 kN/m/s Rear: Bump: 2.51 kN/m/s Rebound: 5.00 kN/m/s Fast Bump: 6.00 kN/m/s Fast Rebound: 6.00 kN/m/s Thresholds on both: Fast Bump Threshold: 0.50 m/s Fast Rebound Threshold: 0.50 m/s (WorkerBee recommends 0.30 m/s thresholds, and so do damper manufacturers according to him, but Nikolay Gryazin has 0.50 m/s on his setup for this car, so I went with that instead!) Tyres Pressures: Front: 190 kPa Rear: 187 kPa (Pressures don't make much difference in NGP, it seems.)

@@zwjna You have more profound knowledge on car setup than most of wheel players that I know, respect.

@@zwjna Hey, consider getting a controller. You'll get a better control and improve your times.

It's clear in the first clip that the rear had excessive rotation, which is what causes spins. At the stage-end interview, he said: _"It's quite tricky in the beginning, and we had a small spin at the start of the stage so we lost a bit of time."_ - www.ewrc-results.com/results/72281-rallye-automobile-monte-carlo-2022/?s=332187

You would qualify it as a spin in a short interview yea, but the reality is, if the barrier isn't there he probably recovers no problem. He isn't stopping because he's beyond the point of no return, it doesn't make sense given how far at the corner exit he is.@@zwjna

@@flammenjc Even if the barrier wasn't there, he still was at the point at which you can no longer apply more throttle -- you need to lift, or clutch-dump, and counter steer. The clip is appropriate for the purpose of the video: if you wrongly rotate or apply throttle, you spin. He was definitely not planning to have his rear rotating that much. That was clearly an overshoot that the subjects of my video deem impossible to happen with real cars. Proof shows otherwise.

I'm saying he can't apply more throttle because he'll hit the barrier, if he had more room he would have kept it floored@@zwjna

@@flammenjc Well, most definitely not. You can see he rotate with the handbrake and hear him not applying any throttle until the car is fully looking straight at the exit. That is, he was waiting for the rear to fully rotate and lose its inertia before applying throttle, to avoid increasing oversteer. But right when he applies throttle, the rear snaps. This happens because the rear has much more inertia and way less traction than the front, and by getting on the throttle you don't let the rear grip and lose its inertia. You can even hear the engine revving very high due to this lack of traction at the rear. Watch the doughnut in which Loeb spins: when properly done, those are only possible to do by having the rear wanting to spin all the time, but avoiding that spin. You need to apply throttle all the time to cause the rear to snap, which is exactly what happened to Kalle: he applied throttle, the rear snapped too much, and he spun. Flooring the throttle would have worsened stuff. Then again, think about doughnuts: keep on the throttle = keep the rear wanting to spin. Eventually, Loeb put too much throttle, and he spun. So there's no way Kalle could have floored the throttle and get away with it.

The steering has both Maximum Fade and Saturation Speed at 6 red bars, a Rise Rate of 3.0, and a Fall Rate of 5.0. The brake pedal has a Rise Rate of 5.0. And that's it! Everything else is at zero or Instant, including the throttle. To manage the power output, apart from using the obvious intermittent tapping on the throttle key, I use a lot of gear changes to manage the torque, and sometimes the brake key at the same time as the throttle, again with the appropriate gear changes to increase or reduce the torque to fight against the brakes and, therefore, controlling the wheels' rotation speed.

Gracias loco! Soy argento. Al livery lo hice por gusto; no es de un equipo ni nada. (Copié y pegué algunos patrones del livery original y les cambié el color, hasta que se me ocurrió pintarlos de celeste y blanco para ver como quedaba. Luego le encajé el sol y me encantó! No se me caía una idea pero al final me gustó el resultado.)

@@zwjnaAguante Argentina!

No. The trees don't move at all. Only the car moves. Change your camera FOV by double-clicking your mouse's right click, and lower its value to something like 0.9xxx. The lower you go, the narrower the FOV, and the slower it will look.

Here's a little demonstration: czcams.com/video/1LadB2FkqaY/video.html

It's Richard Burns Rally, a game from 2004 but with modern physics and other fantastic plugins that revamp the base game. www.rallysimfans.hu/rbr/download.php?download=rsfrbr

Thank you very much, I appreciate it! I highly recommend you to try RBR. It's more tricky to drive, but extremely rewarding after a decent run, specially given its proven realism and knowing that you are virtually driving a real car! Installing it is as easy as ever, by the way. Just get the rallysimfans package, and you are good to go. Download the installer, select the base game and the essential plugins, and only the stages you want to download. You can re-run the installer later to download more stages. Link: www.rallysimfans.hu/rbr/download.php?download=rsfrbr. I don't know if controllers work properly out of the box, but I play with keyboard just nicely, thanks to RBR's built-in filters. At the minute I think you don't need to use the torrent to install the base game. Try it just with the installer first, the easier way. The torrent option is easy anyway.

@@zwjna That's exactly what I'm looking for though. I'm good enough to the point where I should be able to handle the difficulty to some degree, and also, I just want the higher level of realistic driving. WRC feels like I'm driving a boat.. that has wheels itself, and is on the dirt.

@@zwjna I do have a quick question. What is the difference between NGP5 and NGP7? I assume the "7" means "more updated" but just to be safe, I'm asking.

@@FemtoTheFox Yes, NGP7 is the latest version. Any other version is not maintained. The rallysimfans installer will automatically install NGP7 for you!

@@zwjna Ok thanks, I will start installing it now.

They are world-class drivers, you are not. Not a roast, just the reality. There's no other explanation to spinning in every corner. That's just a skill issue. Hairpins in NGP are _not_ hard, just a tad tricky. I almost never spin. It just requires basic understanding of vehicle dynamics and a bit of common sense. If a WRC driver fails to deliver hairpins, he might as well rethink his choices in life, and fully enjoy the opportunity of his life before he gets axed. WRC is the elite, and even those that buy a seat are skilled enough to avoid spins. How? Well, either by having a car setup that avoids spins by having a more dominant front axle, or by being careful on the rotation. There's little time to gain on hairpins during the rotation itself, but a lot to lose. Real rallying, like any other motorsport, is about crafting your pace, about being smart: you not always need to risk precious seconds only to gain a tenth of a second. If you don't feel comfortable with the hairpin ahead, just don't push the car thru it. Otherwise, in your vid to gain a tenth or two, you will spin and lose batshit amounts of time. So, WRC drivers rarely spin because they have the skills and the smartness to do it properly.

I don't spin every corner, because I don't play it haha, but even when I did it is not hard to avoid spin, just no gas or sideways, but power slides in rallying are common thing and in NGP 7 they are not working, so it is not realistic, just accept it. ;)

@@altarf82 _You_ are not making them work. Moreover, powerslides are _not_ common on tarmac rallying; guess why. Here's how you powerslide in NGP, just like in real life: - czcams.com/video/HeUYz56tfvk/video.html - czcams.com/video/Qz93OLwi3Yo/video.html

Here is how it works perfect in ngp 3 czcams.com/video/0Bmw9i_5y-g/video.htmlsi=wYysdcZNXDddtLTE

So, I've just seen that CZcams is not showing some of your comments, the ones that contain links; but if I select the "Show latest comments first" option, it shows them. Shit platform. I've seen your comment _"Here is how it works perfect in ngp 3 czcams.com/video/0Bmw9i_5y-g/video.htmlsi=wYysdcZNXDddtLTE"_ I guess you want to show me how, in NGP 3, you can throw the cars pretty sideways on the tarmac parts without losing control. But you can do that in NGP 7 as well, just with more care. When you see IRL onboards with that same gravel setup/tarmac road combination, you can see, hear, and feel the cars reluctant to oversteer at times; you will hear from the engine how the drivers are waiting with light throttle application for the car to stabilize enough, which will then allow them to oversteer when getting on the throttle. You can also see and hear them reducing or increasing the oversteer with throttle inputs, not just steering. And this is exactly what you need in NGP 7. Fast gravel setup/tarmac road driving in NGP 7 is totally look-alike to real-life gravel setup/tarmac road driving. Here's my take: czcams.com/video/qpt_3vNmQ6c/video.html Note that the real-life spins in my video are exactly like the ones that happen in RBR. Study them carefully. It's quite simple, just like in RBR: if your rear end has too much inertia and little traction, the latter happening when you get on the throttle and you don't let the rear wheels grip laterally, the rear snaps and the car spins. The only reason they don't spin much IRL is because they are just that good, or that careful.

The complainers often say that it's "impossible" or "very hard" to do proper hairpins, and that real AWD cars don't spin. Both the in-game and real footage are selected to prove otherwise!

richard burnes rally. ps2 game kept alive with mods just got done playing in VR.

The steering has both Maximum Fade and Saturation Speed at 6 red bars, a Rise Rate of 3.0, and a Fall Rate of 5.0. The brake pedal has a Rise Rate of 5.0. And that's it! Everything else is at zero or Instant, including the throttle. To manage the power output, apart from using the obvious intermittent tapping on the throttle key, I use a lot of gear changes to manage the torque, and sometimes the brake key at the same time as the throttle, again with the appropriate gear changes to increase or reduce the torque to fight against the brakes and, therefore, controlling the wheels' rotation speed. Then, with my left hand I handle the steering with A and D, the throttle with W, the handbrake with Space, and the clutch with Ctrl. With the right one, and using the numpad keys, I handle the brakes with 0, upshift with 1, and downshift with 2. Every key is handled by one dedicated finger!

Many thanks!

In the real footage, the drivers misjudged the braking points or the shape of the corners, leading them to enter with too much speed. Of course weight transfer performed via a proper rotation/slide can produce more traction to maybe (!) keep the car on the road, but it will never produce the grip and thus the speeds that are achieved on EA WRC. The real footage here shows how low the grip is, and average gamers out there with little driving experience have gameplays staying on the road quite easily and therefore without any weight transfer, on situations like the ones seen in that real footage. The game is designed exactly for that. Could you share with me some of such examples of "how good grip some drivers seem to get on gravel"?.

Wrong. A proper sim might have quirks. But what you saw in this video are not quirks. They are _deliberate_ arcade gimmicks. That's the logic. Then, a racing game already has a fancy physics engine to simulate vehicle dynamics at some level of realism. It only takes the designers to play the game and manipulate the cameras to make a cool video. Why would them completely ignore that and instead spend countless ours doing the animations by hand in a completely unrelated CGI software? Why would them use such software to even recreate the graphics style of the game? Just use the game itself! Sure, it still might be just a cinematic thing and even pre-release physics that didn't made it into the game, but the actual game still has arcade grip.

vasgabi setups are usually good

you have to be good tat driving to drive RBR, it's as simple as that. EA, I bet they game will be a 100% arcade inside 2 years.