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Atelier Puglisi
Australia
Registrace 14. 04. 2014
Dedicated to the art of making, repairs & restoration. Est. 1995 by Benedict G. Puglisi, Atelier Puglisi has grown to become one of Australia's premier place for double bass and cellos
Double Bass Innovation Master Collaboration
Innovation Double Bass creation! Assembled a Masterful A-Team of Double Bass makers for this Collaboration.
With over 100 years of passionate instrument making experience between us, this was always going to result in some brilliant innovative ideas and methods.
• Friend and colleague Corey Swan from the USA,
swanfineinstruments.com
* Josias from Germany, mixed with the awesome homegrown proven talent of Tim Kill
timkillcustom.com
and Andy Tiggs combining to make this Vitruvian VIII one to cherish.
• As instrument makers, we spend an awful lot of time on our own practising and working our Craft, but it's when you have can have a true collaboration, the sum of all, makes some really good things happen - that's for sure.
• With the result being one-and-a-half instruments completed in the white!! Vitruvian VIII has a voice! What a thrilling fun filled month!
• Featuring a Fully Height Adjustable, Removable neck, with world's best practice lightweight track system, and Corey's Harmonic Balance stunning tailpiece, just to name a couple of the features.
• Huge shout-out to Gary Upton for his help and advice.
uptonbass.com
With the finishing off the details and varnish still to follow,
Thank you bassists
Helen Svoboda
www.helensvoboda.com
David Flynn
Mark Elton
Charlotte Scanlan
Follow us on Facebook: atelierpuglisi/
Send us an email: instruments@atelierpuglisi.com
TAGS: double bass, double bass making, double bass music, double bass workshop, double bass original, double bass puglisi, double bass playing, double bass players, double bass cello, cello music, cello making, cello workshop, Upton Bass, vitruvian, Helen Svoboda, Tim kill, Mark Elton, Corey Swan,
With over 100 years of passionate instrument making experience between us, this was always going to result in some brilliant innovative ideas and methods.
• Friend and colleague Corey Swan from the USA,
swanfineinstruments.com
* Josias from Germany, mixed with the awesome homegrown proven talent of Tim Kill
timkillcustom.com
and Andy Tiggs combining to make this Vitruvian VIII one to cherish.
• As instrument makers, we spend an awful lot of time on our own practising and working our Craft, but it's when you have can have a true collaboration, the sum of all, makes some really good things happen - that's for sure.
• With the result being one-and-a-half instruments completed in the white!! Vitruvian VIII has a voice! What a thrilling fun filled month!
• Featuring a Fully Height Adjustable, Removable neck, with world's best practice lightweight track system, and Corey's Harmonic Balance stunning tailpiece, just to name a couple of the features.
• Huge shout-out to Gary Upton for his help and advice.
uptonbass.com
With the finishing off the details and varnish still to follow,
Thank you bassists
Helen Svoboda
www.helensvoboda.com
David Flynn
Mark Elton
Charlotte Scanlan
Follow us on Facebook: atelierpuglisi/
Send us an email: instruments@atelierpuglisi.com
TAGS: double bass, double bass making, double bass music, double bass workshop, double bass original, double bass puglisi, double bass playing, double bass players, double bass cello, cello music, cello making, cello workshop, Upton Bass, vitruvian, Helen Svoboda, Tim kill, Mark Elton, Corey Swan,
zhlédnutí: 768
Video
The Christening - Vitruvian VII - Atelier Puglisi contrabasso 2023
zhlédnutí 882Před 5 měsíci
Jonathan Coco drops in to the workshop, picks up the brand new contrabbasso and gives it a voice! And I really couldn't be happier with how he makes this sing. Instruments often develop and mature after being played, and this is a recording of the first day fully set up. Can't wait to hear it after few years or more of playing. Vitruvian VII, or as we named this one, 'Signor Nero' is a model wh...
Extension Vs Five Stringer Double Bass comparison.
zhlédnutí 7KPřed 2 lety
A short impromptu informal sound comparison. Two recently finished Jay Haide french style double basses. One set up as a five stringer and the other a four string with a low extension. Listen carefully and you'll hear some notable differences particularly in the bottom end and the high end of the instrument. Which is your favourite? At your comment below. Thanks for your help Samuel Nock. Instr...
Making The Meyer Double Bass: Chapter 6 "The Secrets in The Varnish'' (THE GRAND FINALE)
zhlédnutí 15KPřed 2 lety
The Evolving Bass. This video is the 6th and final sneak peak into the workshop Puglisi. Revealing the the many critical details that go into making this incredible Double Bass. "Behind-the-Scenes: Making the Meyer Double Bass," inspired by the amazing music and sound of virtuoso Edgar Meyer. *Set to music by amazing music by James Sherlock and Ben Halon from their latest release ‘Stravinsky.’ ...
Making The Meyer Double Bass: Chapter 5 "The Devils in the Detail"
zhlédnutí 16KPřed 3 lety
The Evolving Bass. This video is the 5th sneak peak into the workshop Puglisi. Revealing the the many critical details that go into making this incredible Double Bass. "Behind-the-Scenes: Making the Meyer Double Bass," inspired by the amazing music and sound of virtuoso Edgar Meyer. *Set to music by Ivan Tagg and his AK's Bone Patrol and Tamara Murphy and Spirograph Studies *Filmed entirely by ...
Making a Meyer Double Bass: Chapter 4 "The Voluptuous Back"
zhlédnutí 10KPřed 3 lety
The Evolving Bass. This video is the 4th sneak peak into the workshop Puglisi. Revealing the procedure of making the arched carved Maple Back of the Double Bass. "Behind-the-Scenes: Making the Meyer Double Bass," inspired by the amazing music and sound of virtuoso Edgar Meyer. Chapter 4 reveals my procedure for making the back of this stunning Double Bass using some well aged Italian Maple *Set...
Making a Meyer Double Bass Scroll: Chapter 3 "The Evolving Scroll"
zhlédnutí 13KPřed 3 lety
The Evolving Bass. This video is the 3rd sneak peak into the workshop Puglisi and reveals the procedure of making the Scroll of the Double Bass. "Behind-the-Scenes: Making the Meyer Double Bass," inspired by the amazing music and sound of virtuoso Edgar Meyer. I was lucky enough to meet with him in 2019 and had access to his Italian labelled instrument, and it turned out to be a passion project...
Making a Meyer Double Bass: Chapter 2 "The Sound of Spruce"
zhlédnutí 15KPřed 3 lety
The Evolving Bass. This video is the 2nd sneak peak into the workshop and reveals the procedure of making the belly of the Double Bass. "Behind-the-Scenes: Making the Meyer Double Bass," inspired by the amazing music and sound of virtuoso Edgar Meyer. I was lucky enough to meet with him in 2019 and had access to his Italian labelled instrument, and it turned out to be a passion project I just c...
Making a Meyer Double Bass: Chapter 1 "THE FORM"
zhlédnutí 26KPřed 3 lety
The Evolving Bass ! This video is a sneak peak into the Atelier Puglisi workshop and the first in the series, "Behind-the-Scenes: Making the Meyer Double Bass," inspired by the amazing music and sound of virtuoso Edgar Meyer. I was lucky enough to meet with him in 2019 and had access to his Italian labelled instrument, and it turned out to be a passion project I just couldn't resist. Part 1 rev...
The Old and The New. Workshop challenges and creations.
zhlédnutí 1,9KPřed 3 lety
Whether it's the creating new instruments, or the restoration of vintage model double basses, Atelier Puglisi is a wonderful place to be.. (however, beware of the Boss Cat!!). Music kind courtesy of Spirograph Studies - Tamara Murphy #doublebass #luthier #cello #cellomaker #jazz
The Art of the Bow Rehair
zhlédnutí 4,1KPřed 3 lety
For over 30 years I've been enjoying the ancient art of rehairing and preparing bows. However it never ceases to amaze me the Magic musicians can create with basically horse hair on a stick! And when the Magic is on one of my original instruments it's even more sweet.. Sincere thanks for the cameos: Rose Chaffey - Puglisi "Mara" Cello 2020 Kees Boersma - Puglisi "Swan" Da Salo 2018 Leonardo Pug...
Master made Double Bass scrolls, in plaster!
zhlédnutí 1,9KPřed 3 lety
Over the years I have amassed a wonderful collection of inspirational master made double bass and cello scrolls in plaster. I find that having a physical record of this past makers workmanship extremely useful and inspirational. I don't really make copies but there is much to be learned from the style and the feel of these masters. The process of safely making these models is constantly being i...
Perfect Stallion Hair
zhlédnutí 2,5KPřed 3 lety
Perfect premium stallion Mongolian bow hair. Nothing beats the feel, sound and the look. Even after 30 plus years of bow rehairing I still get joy out of starting a new bundle of this hair. And I've tried hair from all around the world too. Thanks to Rose Chaffey for the intense Cello playing, and Phoebe Russell giving my Double Bass a nice work over. www.benedictgpuglisi.com Thumb photo thanks...
Bass Bridge collection
zhlédnutí 489Před 3 lety
The bridge would have to be one of the most important tonal parts of your instrument. There are literally hundreds of variations with the size, width, height, shape and quality and all before I shape them. Over the last 30 years I've collected hundreds of seasoned variations to insure I've got All basses covered... The right Bridge for the right Bass. Wonderful music courtesy Elsen Price facebo...
Some hidden details on my Double Bass back plate
zhlédnutí 1,1KPřed 3 lety
Recently completed, it's nice to share some of the many intricate details to go into creating a completely new instrument. The following shows some of the work that goes into fitting some reinforcing cleats. Made from the leftover timber used for the ribs, each piece is chalk fitted and glued into place in consecutive selected pieces. They are then shaped down to a smooth profile. All helping t...
Working the fingerboard on my Double Bass (promo)
zhlédnutí 1,5KPřed 3 lety
Working the fingerboard on my Double Bass (promo)
Three identical Viennese inspired double basses!
zhlédnutí 1,8KPřed 6 lety
Three identical Viennese inspired double basses!
The amazing Benedict Puglisi Story- 8K RADIUS LIDO SERIES
zhlédnutí 1,1KPřed 6 lety
The amazing Benedict Puglisi Story- 8K RADIUS LIDO SERIES
Children Of The Light - Melbourne June 2016
zhlédnutí 497Před 8 lety
Children Of The Light - Melbourne June 2016
Quite the feat given modern tools. It can seriously make one wonder how we went from wooden flute type instruments to orchestral masterpieces overnight -relatively speaking.
This is one of my favorite video series ever created.
Well that is a very luthiery cat, I think she is trying to tell "don't shave it too thin, it may crack in the future." It is a perfect experience to watch such fine craftmanship and artistry. I am a guitar builder and I was recently thinking about building a double bass, after the request of a friend. Your work is inspiring sir.
Was wondering when You were going to get the Angle Grinder out .
4y4 violin ਦੇ ਸਾਰੇ ਸਾਇਜ ਵਾਲੀ ਕੋਪੀ ਭੇਜ ਦਿਓ ਜੀ ਮੈ violin ਬਣਾਉ ਹੈ ਜੀ ਸੋਡਾ ਬਹੁਤ ਧੰਨਵਾਦ ਹੋਵੇਗਾ ਜੀ
Woooow 👏👏👏
They say a double bass is made of the pieces of wood left after making a violin.
Sometimes, but we can make violins and even cellos from the timber offcuts from our Double Basses too.
I’am sure someone makes kits for double bass guitar for beginner to save money without all the hard work that goes into it. How to build quality Balsawood model airplanes lots of work goes into it kits 😅
Do you make a kit Robbin Savage of Alliance Ohio USA
The five string sounded better on the higher notes. I want one! All my friends have three or four installments guitars violins accordions, but my wife won't let me buy a second Bass , just no fair!
Was the fifth string tuned to B or C. If tuned to B the relationship between strings will be the same as a standard four string. With good metal strings you can use higher positions on the fifth string where the fingers are closer together. This allows easy fingering with all four fingers.
The last few years I've been experimenting with fifths tuning CGDA like a Cello one octave down. Works well for improve with my moving hand style, however for reading sheet music just to much shifting.
I love the clamping method at 14:30 All of these videos are great
I'm surprised to learn that the back of the peg box is closed on bass. I'm more used to seeing peg boxes being open on both ends. Guess I just haven't gotten a good enough look before.
Всегда хотел увидеть как делают завиток. Спасибо!
I've been struck with an idea to build an electric upright bass. I'm trying to replicate the Yamaha SLB300 somewhat. I surched the internet for dimensions or some kind of diagram with measurements. All I can find is the spices for the finger board. I'm using that to scale out the rest of it by inches to feet using pictures on my phone. It's hard work. So far I've managed to make a finger board and the neck. Of course I'm trying to save money by doing this so, that's the whole reason. But I know I can. I just need dimensions. I'm going today to get a big piece of maple to make the real neck. Thanks for your videos. I love the art of hand carving.
You really captured the sound of Edgar's bass. Congratulations!
All double basses are born violins… but some of them grow up to be violas, others cellos then another become double basses.😉
OOOH…… THANK YOU HENRY MANCINI FOR THE PETER GUNN THEME SONG SONG ❗️
AT LAST WE MEET AGAIN 🤓 The last and ONLY comment I sent you ….. you were feeding Magpies and …… you had to lock Ebony out for a not allowing you to sand in piece.👀 I also commented on the dream bass hopefully one day I’ll save up and order from you. I wanted a : BLONDE DOUBLE BASS ❗️ BUT…. I DIDNT KNOW YOU ACTUALLY MANUFACTURED ONE! but there is is❗️ IS THAT A MAPLE OR SPRUCE TOP? Just wondering……….. IT LOOKS AND SOUNDS BREATHTAKING ❗️
Love your work, Ben 🤩
Love this.Such intense workmanship and dedication! Thanks for sharing.
I totally agree with WLandsale. I'm watching this this video's in Belgium while I'm working on an arched back double bass. Great. (I'm 70 years old) I have a question. Do you give the back plate everywhere the same thickness ? (and how much?)
Never too young to build you your Bass. The thinkness of the back plate is approximately 8mm in the middle to 4.5mm around the edges with the middle edges about 5.5mm It will always depend on the stiffness of the timber.
Thank you very much.
I love the music matching with the carving sounds
What a great series! Thank you very much for allowing me to accompany the construction of the beautiful double bass. The very sensitive music, mixed with the working noises, created a great atmosphere. I had to laugh at your naughty cat several times. Thanks again and all the best! Michael Bereckis (pensioner, saxophonist, clarinettist and passionate beginner on the double bass) from Dortmund, Germany
Great video, but horrible music choices. Something lilting and cheerful, or solemn yet soothing would be better than the horror movie music provided. I literally cut off the sound. Still, great video and outatanding craftsmanship.
what
how the hecc does this even sound haunting or even horrifying 💀
Very even and full ...and played by a terrific player ! it will only get better from here mate
This is so nice to watch.
Absolutely beautiful!
I felt that in my liver.
What an orchestral cannon! That sort of low register from a brand new bass is mind blowing - sweet upper range - one bass to rule them all! :-) amazing work Ben
Powerful sound!
Headphones recommended!
❤
What would be a source for 2/4 size double bass construction?
Hi Barry. Not quite sure what you mean. Do you mean a half size double bass?
@@atelierpuglisi What about for a 8/16 size double bass?
Considering that's maple you're carving, you've got some seriously sharp knives.
I feel like I spend one month every year, at the sharpening stones. That's 1 year of sharpening, every 12 years.... Part of the job I suppose.
@@atelierpuglisi GREETINGS FROM CHICAGO ❗️ DEAREST MAESTRO, TRULY, YOU ARE THE MICHELANGELO OF OUR AGE‼️‼️ I HAVE ONLY KNOWN YOU FOR A FEW HOURS; YET YOU HAVE GIVEN ME WONDERMENT BEYOND YOUR GENIUS!!….. FOR TO BE AT PEACE WITH MAGPIES WHO SEEK YOUR COMFORT…… AND EBONY…WHO WOULD GLADLY SACRIFICE ALL 9 OF HER LIVES FOR YOU YES! 🔮 YOUVE GIVEN ME MORE THAN A BROADENED FASCINATION FOR AN INSTRUMENT I NEVER KNEW I WAS IN LOVE WITH TILL YOU REVEALED ITS SECRET !………. ITS MAKER ❗️ EVEN NOW , IM LISTENING TO: NICK ABBEY BECAUSE OF YOU AS I TYPE THIS TEXT… BECAUSE OF YOU……. I KNOW THAT THE ROOKIES ALBUM AWAITS ME LATER TONIGHT! THANK YOU FOR THE MUSIC AND YOUR AWARD WINNING CINEMATOGRAPHY ‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️ FORGIVE ME FOR NOT WATCHING YOUR WORK OF THE “ MEYER” BUILD IN ORDER 😢 AS A SELF TAUGHT JAZZ COMPOSER…. FREE TO DO MY CRAFT THESE LAST 4 YEARS…….AFTER BEING IN A DELUSIONAL RELIGIOUS ORDER FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS …. (long story) IF IM NOT IN MY HOME STUDIO WITH MY PIANO ….. IM INVENTING THINGS…. OR WRITING SHORT STORIES FOR SHORT FILMS….👀 SOOOOO, WORKING ON MY DEBUT ALBUM AT 67 1/2 years old IS A DREAM COME TRUE ❗️….. A COLLECTION OF LOVELY BALLADS….. CARVED OUT ……… AND SCULPTED JUST LIKE YOU DO…… WITH LOVE❗️ HOPE TO HIRE A SMALL ORCHESTRA TO COMPLETE THE DREAM……….. ONLY ANALOG RECORDING TO TAPE WILL DO FOR THIS VINYL DUE OUT AROUND CHRISTMAS 2025 ( if funding arrives on time… lol) WONDER IF: LEONARDO OR SEBASTIAN KNOW WHAT WONDERFUL DNA THEY POSSESS ❓ IF THEY FOLLOW YOU OR NOT……… THEY ARE BOUND FOR GREATNESS❗️ MICHELANGELO WAS 26 WHEN HE BEGAN SCULPTING DAVID IN 1501…. FINISHED 3 YEARS LATER WITH A MASTERPIECE ❗️ …… YOUR WORK WILL BE TALKED ABOUT 500 YEARS FROM NOW……. AS IT SHOULD ‼️…….. YOU CLEARLY UNDERSTAND WHY “LOVE “ IS THE KEY TO GREAT ART…. AND THE UNIVERSE WELCOMES YOU SIR…. AS DO I. MICHELANGELO’S LAST WORDS IN 1564….. JUST 16 DAYS FROM HIS 89 BIRTHDAY WERE: “ANCORA IMPARO”( Latin ) “ IM STILL LEARNING! “ A HUMBLE GENIUS……. JUST LIKE YOU MR. PUGLISI❗️ ONE DAY……. IF THE GREAT AUDIOPHILE IN HEAVEN SHOULD BLESS ME I HOPE TO ORDER A COMPLETELY BLONDE DOUBLE BASS FROM YOU……… TRULY 🎻 MADE WITH LOVE 🎻 HAPPIEST SPRING SIR 🌱 GOD BLESS, 🎼RAIN AGAIN 🎼
how thick it the piece of wood you used for the face plate of the bass ?
The finish thickness is about 9 mm in the middle. And graduates to 4.5 on the flanks. The arching height is roughly 34 mm at the highest point
@@atelierpuglisi also, what would did you use, and would using another type of wood affect it, I would imagine hardwoods would be better, because of the residence, and softer woods would be more frowned upon. And also if I were to glue three pieces together to create the front piece, would that be good, or should I go for a solid piece of wood? Thank you so much, I enjoyed watching this series.
Just out of curiosity, why do you wait to do the final carve on the fingerboard and neck until it's assembled? I would think both parts would be easier to manage as several pieces
Wow, such a smooth and warm sound 😍
Oh wow, how long does it take to carve the headstock? That scroll is amazing! Also, love the cat on the bench, I have a hard time keeping mine off. Two of them taking turns 😸
I'm actually pretty slow at making a scroll compared to many.. It usually takes me around 30 hours. I often say that I never really finish......, I just stop working on it...
@@atelierpuglisi wow!! Yeah I imagine you could get lost in the fine detail trying to perfect it.
Oh there you go, I LOVE the long handled gouge! I have a large slick (flat edge boat building chisel) but now I really want to find or make a gouge like that 😍
Really can't recommend a long handle gouge, or for that matter pairing chisel enough. The extra length gives the leverage to make the job so much easier. Helps with posture as well.
@@atelierpuglisi totally agreed. The boat building slick is really nice to use, like a 2 -3 inch wide blade with overall length is a bit over 3 feet. I do have a couple gouges, I might have to track down another so I can make a long handle on the lathe. Oh yeah, I just watched the video on carving the back too: one tool that made life easier for me on guitar tops is a spoon plane. It works on the pull stroke like the Japanese hand saws. The blade is crudely shaped, but once it's dialed in, the pull stroke is really nice. Amazon has the WoodRiver Carver's spoon plane, it's $30 US and worth it's weight in gold... or bronze anyway 😁😁
Wonderful video! I especially like the shot carving the end block with 2 planes 😁 One of these days I would like to build an upright myself. Made an archtop guitar and a teardrop shaped violin, so I have most of the basic concepts, it's just the size of the thing that's intimidating. I'm curious, what wood did you use for the linings here?
Thanks mate. I taught myself to be ambidextrous with the tools. Learning to use, my left hand was really important to stop being fatigue and repetitive strain. One of the things that's very different from making smaller instruments is that you have to work around the instrument, rather than turning the instrument around to you. The wood I used for the linings was Spanish Cedar. Often used in classical guitar necks. It's sort of like a mahogany in that It's a little bit porous, however it bends well. It just needs the glue to soak in thoroughly before joining.
@@atelierpuglisi well there you go, I’ve actually done a pair of chambered body guitars out of Spanish cedar. It’s pretty decent stuff to work with. I’m pretty ambidextrous too, but never tried a plane in each hand 😂 That’s funny about working around the instrument- I’ve seriously thought about making a wood strip canoe too, so now I’m picturing a bass as big as a canoe…. Just trying to squeeze around it
It's always a great experience to see the wood soak in the finish and reveal itself.
How do you decide of the shape and volume of the instrument. Is there any standards I could look upon to make one myself ? Did you tried different shapes and volumes over time to get a different sound ? Looks like the best job in the world. I'm cabinet worker, carpenter, designer (college in architecture only). I love to make my own instruments and tools but I'm more into guitars and maybe a violin soon but would love to make one just for the pleasure. I'm disabled so I got all the time I need and I'm really patient. Don't really want to make some studies into it. Maybe just working for a guy who make it and get his help for a cheap pay could be nice.
There are so many different models of double basses. And they all have their benefits and drawbacks. Clearly the larger instruments will have more of a sub woofer base response. But like a large subwoofer, they need a lot of energy to make the air volume move. Small flatback instruments require less effort to push out the sound. However, they could like some deep bass when it comes to filling up an orchestra pit. I always recommend people who wish to make a double bass start with a violin, viola or cello first. It's a great way to really get an idea of the work involved and not have to wait many months or years to see the result. Even starting with a kit violin is a great way to get the ball rolling. And the materials are certainly a lot cheaper to start with too.
Have you ever made/heard/seen a bass without the traditional scroll? I was wondering what the tone would be like without the additional mass at the end of the neck. Gene in usa
There's a number of people that have made headless instruments and even more ornate scrolls. Helps to pack it away in a case for travelling that's for sure. Definitely the extra mass at the top of the fingerboard helps to balance out the vibration on the neck. Instruments that I have tried, without a headstock have seemed thin in tone. However, a huge part of the optics of the violin family is the Fibonacci, scroll thats for sure. There is also a noticeable change when adding the C extension which needs to be the correct weight. Not too heavy, not too light...
Hi good overview on the how. But, i wonder about the edge of the fingerboard are always vertical.. can it be done with a radius ? Like to not be a full 90..
Oh wow! I sure loved watching the progression and care that you gave this beautiful instrument! It looks and sounds amazing! Im a cellist and have a beautiful old German cello and a new-age carbon fiber cello. As i live in northern Wyoming, USA, winters are rough for traveling with the old guy, so the carbon fiber is more forgiving. Love them both! May this bass find a very fortunate person to take him into the huge music world!
I noticed the shape of the top part of the bass tapers slightly inward towards the neck like an hour glass. It's different from the violin. All this time I assumed an upright bass was just a scaled up violin.
The size of the Double Bass is the main reason for the shape different. The shape of the double bass has evolved to be more playable/ accessible/ ergonomic as you more up the fingerboard. Having sloping shoulders can really help to accommodate this.
@@atelierpuglisi Makes sense, but I love designs that maintain shape regardless of scale, like Matryoshka dolls, bandsaws and lathes. I wonder if the earliest bases were more like the violin.
First class and so informative. Thank you from Jacksonville Florida
Thanks Mate
What are the starting thicknesses of the front and back blanks? Or maybe a better question is how much arch is in both panels.