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Conversational Pace
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Registrace 21. 10. 2022
Conversational Pace is dedicated to in-depth trail running shoe reviews to help you find that perfect trail shoe for your next adventure.
Nike Ultrafly v. The North Face Vectiv Pro 2 v. Adidas Terrex Agravic Speed Ultra v. Hoka Tecton X 3
The ultimate trail super shoe comparison video is here! We took the (in our opinion) top 4 trail super shoes that we have tested and compared their stats, as well as chose which we would use at various races and decided which ones were our favorite.
Shop Hoka Tecton X 3
Mens: www.runningwarehouse.com/HOKA_Tecton_X_3/descpage-H3TEXM0.html?from=conpace
Womens: www.runningwarehouse.com/HOKA_Tecton_X_3/descpage-H3TEXW0.html?from=conpace
Shop Adidas Terrex Agravic Speed Ultra
Mens: www.runningwarehouse.com/adidas_Terrex_Agravic_Speed_Ultra/descpage-AASU1M0.html?from=conpace
Womens: www.runningwarehouse.com/adidas_Terrex_Agravic_Speed_Ultra/descpage-AASU1W0.html?from=conpace
Shop North Face Vectiv Pro 2
Mens: www.runningwarehouse.com/The_North_Face_Summit_VECTIV_Pro_2/descpage-N2SVPM1.html?from=conpace
Womens: www.runningwarehouse.com/The_North_Face_Summit_VECTIV_Pro_2/descpage-N2SVPW0.html?from=conpace
Shop Nike Ultrafly
Mens: www.runningwarehouse.com/Nike_Ultrafly_Trail/descpage-NZUT1M1.html?from=conpace
Womens: www.runningwarehouse.com/Nike_Ultrafly_Trail/descpage-NZUT1W1.html?from=conpace
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
1:29 Disclaimer
1:49 Shoe stats comparison table
3:52 Best shoe for a mild to moderate technicality sub ultra
5:14 Best shoe for a technical sub ultra
7:19 Best shoe for a mild to moderate technicality 50k
8:57 Best shoe for a mild to moderate technicality 50 mile to 100km. The Golden Ticket shoe
11:50 Best shoe for a mile to moderate technicality 100 mile
15:15 Best shoe for a flat trail 100 mile
16:26 Best shoe for a technical or mountainous 100 mile
20:01 Best shoe for OCC & CCC
21:30 Favorite upper
23:35 Favorite outsole
25:02 Favorite rocker shape
27:54 Favorite midsole foam
30:38 Which shoe had the best first impression?
33:12 Frankenshoe category
35:58 Which next version are you most excited about?
Music provided by Argofox:
Noxive - Bacon Sandwiches
czcams.com/video/FqD0dS1WNLY/video.html
Shop Hoka Tecton X 3
Mens: www.runningwarehouse.com/HOKA_Tecton_X_3/descpage-H3TEXM0.html?from=conpace
Womens: www.runningwarehouse.com/HOKA_Tecton_X_3/descpage-H3TEXW0.html?from=conpace
Shop Adidas Terrex Agravic Speed Ultra
Mens: www.runningwarehouse.com/adidas_Terrex_Agravic_Speed_Ultra/descpage-AASU1M0.html?from=conpace
Womens: www.runningwarehouse.com/adidas_Terrex_Agravic_Speed_Ultra/descpage-AASU1W0.html?from=conpace
Shop North Face Vectiv Pro 2
Mens: www.runningwarehouse.com/The_North_Face_Summit_VECTIV_Pro_2/descpage-N2SVPM1.html?from=conpace
Womens: www.runningwarehouse.com/The_North_Face_Summit_VECTIV_Pro_2/descpage-N2SVPW0.html?from=conpace
Shop Nike Ultrafly
Mens: www.runningwarehouse.com/Nike_Ultrafly_Trail/descpage-NZUT1M1.html?from=conpace
Womens: www.runningwarehouse.com/Nike_Ultrafly_Trail/descpage-NZUT1W1.html?from=conpace
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
1:29 Disclaimer
1:49 Shoe stats comparison table
3:52 Best shoe for a mild to moderate technicality sub ultra
5:14 Best shoe for a technical sub ultra
7:19 Best shoe for a mild to moderate technicality 50k
8:57 Best shoe for a mild to moderate technicality 50 mile to 100km. The Golden Ticket shoe
11:50 Best shoe for a mile to moderate technicality 100 mile
15:15 Best shoe for a flat trail 100 mile
16:26 Best shoe for a technical or mountainous 100 mile
20:01 Best shoe for OCC & CCC
21:30 Favorite upper
23:35 Favorite outsole
25:02 Favorite rocker shape
27:54 Favorite midsole foam
30:38 Which shoe had the best first impression?
33:12 Frankenshoe category
35:58 Which next version are you most excited about?
Music provided by Argofox:
Noxive - Bacon Sandwiches
czcams.com/video/FqD0dS1WNLY/video.html
zhlédnutí: 7 525
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Hoping to hear updates about one or both of these shoes as we roll into the last four months of 2024. Is this a 700-mile shoe?
For most of us$250 is out of our price ranges , these are Tier 1 shoes , perhaps do some Tier 2 shoes, other than that, very cool
Worth the $$$$ more than Nike because my toes do not work with Nike- I hate Nike. Adidas kills my arches- too much structure? I truly don’t know how you guys can run in sooooo many different shoes without injury. Love love zero drop. Years of hip & knee pain resolved with zero drop.
Depth is not deep but if you struggle with Achilles tendon inflammation it helps.
Hey guys, was listening to your UTMB recap, and you spent a short bit of time talking about the shoes on some of the elites feet. I actually wondered this while I was watching...why do you think many of the Hoka athletes were wearing the Tecton 2.5s over the Tecton 3? Did you guys ever get to try those limited 2.5s? Just curious. Thanks guys!
Saw you kinda commented on this actually below. I think I remember either Jim or someone else mention the X3 is more of a shoe for the masses, but am intrigued about the 2.5.
Would you use any of these shoes as training shoes? Maybe not every day but every other day. I know these are very expensive shoes but if you could buy a pair with a big discount would you do it? If yes which one?
Wish y’all made a video about best backpacking or through hiking trail runners! Been binging your videos starting with the Caldera 7 to find an AT-esque terrain oriented shoe (Adirondacks, Whites, Longtrail, etc). I loved Caldera 5 and very torn on a replacement per y’all’s amazing analysis between the Caldera 7, Asics Trabuco Max 2 and this!
We have reviewed enough thru hike eligible shoes at this point where we probably could make a video like that!
@@ConversationalPace Having an End of Year best shoe for each Distance/Purpose Video would be dope. Especially if thru-hiking was included lol. Great stuff!
Picked up a pair of these because I have fond memories of Scarpa Hiking boots from doing Philmont way back in the day. I love these so far. Feel like La Sportivas but much more accommodating fit wise.
Yes definitely a bit more wiggle room than most La Sportiva models. Thanks for watching!
The North Face vectiv pro 2 is one of the worst shoes i've ever ran in. First of all, this is not a proper trail shoe. It has no grip whatsoever on the trails trails. It kinda feels like wearing the hoka carbon X series (which is a no grip ROAD shoe) on trails. The fit: While the front of the foot is hugely oversized, causing friction thus blisters, There is this achilles cushion which is annoying and makes it hard to get in the shoe. Locking the ankle is impossible. Durability: after 200k: the outsole is done. The nobs are all fading away on pressure points. Unacceptable for a 250 euro shoe. Clearly this shoe was commercially hyped as Thé ultra trail shoe and I fell for it. Don't buy this shit guys.
I totally get that this shoe isn't going to work for everyone, but how could a shoe be all hype when athletes are winning races all over the world in it? It clearly works for someone.
Too much talking. Get to the point. Overlay. Idk.
We should do an entire episode that's just a moment of silence..trail gear meditation
Bro the channel is called Conversational Pace, not Race Pace 😂😂
@@ConversationalPaceit can be Race Pace if you listen at 2X speed
I think something that would be interesting is to define what exactly constitutes a super TRAIL shoe now, and a full list of what CP considers in that list. Foams, propulsive plates, stack, weight... marketing, feel/experience? Depending on the criteria you could include any Speedland with the plate installed, Brooks Catamount 3 or Agil (supercritical foam, both with the Skyvault plate which isn't carbon but I don't believe the Adidas Energy Rods are either?), and Asics FujiSpeed 3 (foam and carbon). Then would the Craft CTM Ultra Carbon count cause carbon, but no superfoam? And the Scott shoe with Carbitex? What about Prodigio Pro with no plate but has the foam. Dynafit Alpine DNA 2 with mystery foam and peba plate? Now that this category is seemingly coalescing, it is interesting to see what shoes count and which don't.
Since you mentioned rocky raccoon what are the best options for that? Assuming it’s not a muddy mess
I'm amazed to find out that Finn is a fan of the Altra Duo. I only know one person other than myself that liked that shoe. I actual had one pair left in my closet I bought for like $40 after they were discontinued. I'm saving them for a special occasion. I never thought the Adidas would work for me, but now I'm intrigued!
hahaha Finn is going to take his love of the Altra Duo to the grave!!!
Crocs erasure
Great video! Would love to hear your take on the new Norda 005. Looks like it could be right up there with these trail super shoes
Definitely going to do a full review with comparisons of the 005 as soon as we get review units for it! thumb 👍
Great video guys I’ve got the Terrex and the Nike I prefer the Nike to Terrex but the Mont Blanc Carbon smashes both of them!
I love hearing that! What about the Mont Blanc Carbon do you like more than the Nike and Adidas?
@@ConversationalPace probably the most obvious the foot shaped toe box but I think the carbitex plate works well with the Ego max/pro midsole but mostly & sometimes overlooked in shoe reviews is it’s simply a joy to run in all smiles and disappears on your feet!
@@morganflockhart942 The Mont Blanc Carbon definitely does get a lot of smile mile points and points for feeling great at all paces
I really feel like trail running brands were too quick to jump on the road definition of super shoes with all the super high stack and rigid plates---I just want that middle ground of Endospeed 4 or Mach X with some shallow vibram lugs: 32-36mm of nicer foam with a more flexy composite plate that adds some snap + protection. The Terrex Speed was so close, and so is Brooks Cat 3, but they're both on that more minimal end, and don't really split the difference IMO; Really hoping the Prodigio Pro next year is this. Did get a chance to try the on Catamount 4 and man, that could be the shoe with the 2-3mm of DNA flash 2 they added!
I totally hear you on this! I understand why these brands went the super shoe route, but I would absolutely love to see the trail version of many of these almost super trainers. Mach x and Endorphin Speed 4 are great examples! Catamount 4 is going to be exciting!
Thanks!
Any chance you guy are going to review ASIC metafuji trail? A less technical trail shoe with carbon plate and ff turbo and ff blast+ iirc.
Working on getting some review units now 👍
I watched Hella's video on the Tecton X3 and the 2.5. The 2.5 is dramatically different, less cushion and less propulsive from what I could gather, but easier to get on. Leave it to Hoka to screw up a good thing, just like they did the midsole of the last two versions of the Speedgoat.
This is actually very GOOD review. Verygood details mentioned
Thanks for watching! Glad you enjoyed it 🙏
What about the Salomon SLab Ultra. That has plates and is FD’s shoe.
I’ve had 2 Speedgoat 5’s but with the Speedgoat 6 I went for the zegama 2 when I found them on sale I decided to try them instead.
This was fun. Got me thinking about Saucony and their Endorphin Edge. I loved it, then hated it and now love it again. No sign of them coming with a better version of it. It could be a contender 🏴👍😸🦄
I heard a rumor that they Endorphin Edge 2 got canceled 😢
Très interesting - thankyou! I finally got hold of a pair of the Agravic Speed Ultras for a (more) reasonable price - the new blue colourway - and they confirm for me that the height around the (outer/lateral) ankles remains problematic for Adidas trail shoes: My first pair of the Speeds, not ultras, were my normal size 44 but ran a little long. I also had to cut away a large chunk of the upper under my left ankle bone to avoid blood but the lockdown was still good with a runners' knot. My second pair of Speeds (again not ultras - they were still not available) were 43 and 1/3 size and were a better fit and I had no ankle problems with a runners' knot - but above 20km the laces bit into the top of the foot so I had re-lace without the runners' knot whilst underway... Now the new Speed Ultra, the smaller 43 and 1/3 again, runners knot - now a bloody right ankle! Shoe-upper surgery has already been necessary. So all the Agravics remain borderline problematic - and you get extra grit in the shoes. On the positives - I like how the Ultra's mid/forefoot feels on the uphill and these are the shoes with the least toe-bashing on downhill. I also find them better cushioned around the heel on stony downhills versus the non-Ultras - BUT, and it's a big but - I've gone over on my ankle twice in the first 60km with the Ultras. So far that's not happened on the non-ultras with 390 kms - the two combined. A third time will not be a coincidence!! I anyway need a day or three of enforced rest after this morning's 'roll.' Of your other shoes: The Nike just doesn't look like a trail shoe to me, plus I've never seen one in the wild, and the North Face is currently very expensive - but I've placed an order for the Tecton x3 - so let's see.
I really hope Adidas fixes the upper issues in both the Speed and Speed Ultra. I also felt that the Speed was more stable than the Ultra, and I imagine that is because of the lower stack height in the Speed. Hopefully that TX3 works out for you!
Hi Guys, could you look at best shoes for the ARC of Attrition UTMB UK please. It’s a coastal course in SW England.
So the North face saves your legs more than the others at all paces?
The way the plate and shape of the shoe worked with our feet, it sure felt that way. It's a very subjective experience though and we don't have any data to back that up, but at the very least it did feel very good to run in at all paces
Maybe I'm weird but I far preferred the NF Vectiv Sky over the Pro, felt far more stable and easy to run in. I had insole issues with the Pro - when they get wet the insole shifts and bunches.
I still haven't gotten to try out the Vectiv Sky yet, but I have heard this a few times. It just seems like it's a bet less weird feeling having less stack and a less extreme rocker
The shoe is awesome!
Sorry, trying to understand the “supershoe” definition. Why wouldn’t the current Nnormal Kjerstag or Tomir 2.0 be qualified as a super shoe (example). Love this show, hope to chase one of you at the races one day!
The main reasoning for why this didn't fall into the category of what is currently being considered a trail super shoe is that they don't have a high volume stack midsole and no plate of sorts. If you were to just run flat on a track or treadmill, neither the Kjerag or Tomir would offer any propulsion or efficiency benefits in a way that these other super shoes do. Whether this current trail super shoe is the end game shape for what is the fastest shoe on the trails is (in my opinion) likely still going to change quite a bit in coming years
asics metafuji trail is wild
Can't wait to try that one out 🤞
How is it being high stacked with tree roots and rocks?
That was a fun video. Will try and resist buying more shoes as currently can’t wear them out fast enough.
hahaha queue the rocky training montage 🤣
At 1:10:00 it’s Ultraspire. I literally never bought anything from them until this multiday distance.
Their higher capacity packs are sooooo good
Superblast 2 is pretty fun so far on dry / damp rookie traction trails.... although tall, fit and bucket seat keep me on top.... shoe is light, cushioned, and fast.
I bet that Superblast is seriously fun on mellow trails. Asics has been on such a heater these last few years with their shoes
I feel like the ankle strength I had to build up in breaking in the Terrex Ultras made the Tecton 3 feel really stable when I took them out for runs here in the steep and rooty stuff around Chamonix. So far so awesome.
Hah maybe that was the case for me too and had I worn the TX3 first, I wouldn't have thought it was as stable as it is
How big an upgrade is the X3 over the X2? Just tempted by the sale price on X2s right now. Found them for close to £100. Appreciate your reviews, picked up TNF altamesa 500 following your review and love them 🙌
Stoked you're enjoying the Altamesa! The X3 is a pretty massive upgrade with the new upper, true super foam, and more rugged outsole. The only question mark still is if it will last any longer. There's definitely a chance they last the same amount of miles, so the dollars per mile is higher, but so is the fun 😅. Hard to beat picking up the TX2 for $100 though!
Like the vid before watching cause I know what I'm getting. Was waiting for this one! I went and bought the Tecton X3 after watching the initial review and will race Grindstone in it come September. For me, it does not work in technical terrain at all, but god it feels good on smooth singletrack. Definitely got "super-shoed" on rocks, roots, etc. and was not pleasant LOL
Same here. You might try ankle taping for Grindstone. I ran it last year (Speedgoats in tropical storm) and would be afraid in the X3.
lol I love this video. I was trying to count how many times y’all said Hoka tecton x3 😂 Got me interested now!
What is is in the marketing world? You have to hear the name on 8 separate occasions for it to get it to stick? 🤣
Hoka Mafate are amazing
Love the Mafate!
Hey guys, of all the shoes mentioned, which shoes does the plate sit closer to the ground?
The Nike Ultrafly plate is closest to the ground 👍
@@ConversationalPace Thanks! Where do the plates sit in the other shoes? Last question. 😁
@@itsahardmuttlife9263 The Vectiv Pro 2 plate is right under the insole close to the foot, and the Adidas and Hoka are both closer to the middle of the shoe
@@ConversationalPace Thank you!
Trail Frankensteinshoe: Adidas Pro 3. I have glued thetongue of the Asics Novablast under the Adidas tongue Drilled some holes in the bottom to stand straight and stop ankle roll. Changed the lacing to have a solid lock Changed the insole, replaced with the insole of the Novalblast TR (stops sliding around( Will glue on silicon 3M bumpon dots on the upper mesh to create a toe bumper and protection for the top of the toes (big pebbles and small rocks hitting the upper foot hurts like a..) Open: a tad more tractionin front of the toes. I rotate my shoes every day, never run the same shoes 2 days in a row. I live at the base of the Alps, solid up and down, nothing flat and I have been running these shoes every single day last week.. they are awesome, the speed ultra did sole is absolute shait compared. The shoe is so fast on the trails it is nuts. X 3, is finally arriving, needed to import them from Spain.. Very curious
The ultimate real life frankenshoe!!!
If Vincent Bouillard of all people prefers the x2.5 to the 3, that says something
100%! I have heard that the 2.5 is just pretty fragile, so that could be a big contributing factor why it didn't make it to mass market. I still want to try it though 😂
As someone who has run in 3 of these. (Nike, Adidas, Hoka) I'd easily rank them... Adidas Speed Ultra, Hoka X3 and a distant 3rd Nike (can't speak on behalf of TNF)... Adidas just are ridiculously fast. They feel tangibly different than the other 3. If I hadn't already ran in the Adidas I would have loved the Hoka X3 as it feels like shoes I generally prefer but the Speed Ultra is just perfection. I found the the Hoka to stiffer which I tend to enjoy but the Adidas somehow just blended everything perfect. I do think the Hoka has better grip and I feel more stable in the Hoka. I feel I have to be far more cautious with my foot placement in the Terrex but I dont mind because I find it so good. When it comes to the Nike I wouldn't even have it in the conversation of these other two other than the fact it has a carbon plate. I find the nike to be to soft and very unstable compared to the others. I'm a big fan of nike road shoes but their trail stuff is just pitiful to me. Only thing I can say nicely about the Nike is it's a pretty looking shoe. Sucker for white trail shoes. ha
I'm so glad that these companies all have very different feeling shoes and that there are isn't one that is unanimously the best!
One look at the bottom of the VJ Lightspeed and I laughed, that wasp waist is a big no thanks. I already had major pronation issues with the VJUltra (has that model been discontinued?). The old S-Lab Sense7 had a similar profile and was good for ~10miles maybe -- $200 for a fore-foot-only very short distance racer, naw dog. A comparison vid on ~marathon-length-worthy shoes could be fun: maybe vectiv sky, terrex speed trail, possibly matryx longsky2, slab genesis?
We've got the lonsky 2 matryx on deck for review. The lightspeed is definitely not for those who need a wider stance under the arch as it's fit is almost identical to the s-lab sense and pulsar series
@@ConversationalPace You have the LS2 already i guess. I bought true-to-size since i didn't know, but this shoe runs wwwaaayyyy long: I'd order 1/2size down or even consider a full size down. Still very runnable at TTS because of the stellar midfoot hold; not a long distance shoe, but great fun on techy trails, and I find it really strengthens my feet with its flexibility while giving excellent grip and protection.
@@rmsrmsrmsrms Yeah I've got my regular size, which is a 10, and I agree, it's about a half size long on me. I'm still able to run in it, but if I were really relying on it in technical terrain, a 9.5 would be much more confidence inspiring
I wonder what your favourite plate design is? Short, Forked, Split, Winged, Rods?
haha yeah I'm curious too. I think that it will really depend on the foam type and how it's shaped as well. I think I still prefer something that's not totally rigid like a split carbon plate or the plastic rods of the terrex
@@ConversationalPace Ye, i tend to agree. I think the main issue is if the plates converge under the mid-foot leading to too much stiffness where the shoe is the narrowest.
@@RowOfMushyTiT yeah I think that might have been the cause of the stability problems in the Saucony Endorphin Edge.
Champex foam... yeah, sounds good ahh...
🤣 🤣
@@romeoiipunzalan1079 Chamwow!
Guys you are missing the new MetaFuji trail. It’s my favourite trail shoe ever. Event though it’s high stack it doesn’t feel unstable. Give it a go!
agree on this; while i love the X3, it did 'rawdog' my back heels (both) over the course of 60k, it could be a "between sizes" issue but I can't imagine having enough toe space if I went down a 1/2 size. The Metafuji feels like a normal road shoe but has some great foam and was shockingly stable on a long'ish effort over semi-technical trail. I was shocked how good it was.
We mentioned later on in the video that we were missing the new MetaFuji Trail. Haven't been able to secure review units yet. Definitely working on it and will do a full review as well as comparisons if we feel it deserves to be in this conversation (which it sounds like it absolutely does) 👍
How is it dealing with rocks and tree roots? I have a night race and am a little worried re the stack height.
@@madsfuglsangryborg1101 just adding my request on a metafuji trail review! Looks interesting and wonder how it fits among the competition. A bit pricey though.
S/lab ultra or s/lab Genesis not in scope?
I've just heard more average to poor reviews about the s/lab ultra to throw it in here. Now the new s/lab ultra glide that just got announced at UTMB has me interested! Genesis doesn't have supercritical foam or any sort of propulsive plates, so we left that one out as well. It's a very comfortable shoe and feels great in the mountains, but we picked these 4 for their similar tech features 👍
@@ConversationalPace thanks guys!
I must say, while i like the tecton x3, its not yet the magnum opus. Maybe the 2.5 was, but this the tec3 is an "almost there". My biggest issues are that Due to the lack of a full plate, you sink in way to much into both peba layers and have no rebound agent. Meaning sure its 40mm but it feels more like 20mm. It feels like the rebel v4 rather than a tecton x2. You have way more ground feel - too much honestly - and the 2 plates dont really help propel you forward. I really want to know if the 2.5 with its different midsole setup and 44mm works better. Its also the first shoe that i felt fast in but was running super slow. The vectiv pro 2 is a great shoe. Only thing you have to get used to is that high arch geometry of the midsole xD but its such a great shoe for cruising
Haha see, I felt the opposite way about the Peba and plate combo of the TX3. I'm also someone who has loved the Rebel series from NB 🤣 Definitely would love to try out the 2.5 to see how it compares
ASICS metafuji
Yes. I want a review of the Metafuji badly. It checks a lot of boxes.
@@christopherorman5769 x 2. This seems to be the truest supershoe. Seems to be speedsky with some lugs? I think the guy who ran 3rd in occ ran with the Fuji 3. Didn't spot any meta Fuji at ccc or UTMB but might be wrong.
@@peterm5877 2024 UTMB 6th place finisher Andreu Simon Aymerich (Asics's top athlete) was wearing the Metafuji the whole race
@@user-kl3lg7tf3n-anx1ous ah ha. Thank you. He didn't get much airtime and I missed him finish. Good to know he didn't do an ankle on the last descent.
Definitely working on getting the MetaFuji in for review ASAP. I agree, it seems to check all the boxes!