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Another Boring Topic
United States
Registrace 6. 08. 2017
We are three friends with a shared love of reading and researching various topics that may seem boring, but have fascinating stories.
If you like deep dives into obscure topics, or easy-to-understand overviews of complicated topics, you just might find something here that interests you.
Due to the fact that we work full time jobs and have families, our uploading schedule tends to be sporadic. However, we do our best to make the waits worthwhile.
We also have a free substack for additional show notes or random articles.
anotherboringtopic.substack.com/ to subscribe.
We do have a Twitter account for occasional channel announcements.
TopicBoring
If you like deep dives into obscure topics, or easy-to-understand overviews of complicated topics, you just might find something here that interests you.
Due to the fact that we work full time jobs and have families, our uploading schedule tends to be sporadic. However, we do our best to make the waits worthwhile.
We also have a free substack for additional show notes or random articles.
anotherboringtopic.substack.com/ to subscribe.
We do have a Twitter account for occasional channel announcements.
TopicBoring
The Rise of Microsoft Windows Part 2: Windows 2x
After many delays and becoming the butt of many industry jokes, Windows 1 had finally staggered onto the market at the end of 1985. It was met by basically complete indifference, as it performed poorly on most people's computers, and lacked any sort of compelling software to kickstart adoption and thereby drive more interest from software developers and users alike.
But Microsoft pressed on with the followup, Windows 2. Although most of Microsoft's time and attention was focused on their partnership with IBM to develop a shiny new operating system, OS/2, and in spite of the fact that Steve Ballmer and others inside of Microsoft saw no point in continuing to develop the successor to the original Windows release, Bill Gates refused to call a halt to its development.
Windows 2's story is a complex one, and IBM, OS/2, and OS/2's GUI Presentation Manager weave in and out of it at various points, together with Apple, HP, Compaq, and others.
It's development was also further complicated by the decision to break it into two pieces, one for 8088/8086 machines and one solely aimed at systems utilizing the powerful new 386 processor.
Battling a wide variety of obstacles, Windows 2.0 eventually succeeded in making it to market, and it and its successor Windows 2.1 eventually proved that Windows could be a viable product that could take Microsoft into the 1990s, and allow them to break free of riding the IBM tiger.
In many ways, Microsoft's incredible growth in the 1990s was rooted in the success that Windows 2x delivered. This sprawling, messy, confusing, contradictory, poorly documented and incredibly fascinating story is the focus of this video. I hope you enjoy it :)
0:00:00 - Windows 1 Post-Launch
0:07:29 - Windows 2.0 first hint
0:11:25 - Microsoft and IBM
0:24:56 - Seattle Computer Products
0:31:30 - IBM's New OS
0:33:43 - DSR and TopView
0:35:16 - Windows and SAA
0:39:53 - Winthorne
0:44:23 - Windows 2.0's development
0:54:35 - EMS 4.0
0:57:18 - Splitting Windows 2 into two versions
1:03:05 - Windows and Presentation Manager
1:11:08 - Windows/386 and Windows 2.0 shown off
1:12:47 - Windows 2.0's murky release timeline
1:21:16 - Windows 2.0 reception and use
1:29:42 - Windows/386 on The Computer Chronicles
1:37:32 - Windows 2.1
1:50:27 - HP NewWave
1:51:53 - Apple versus Microsoft
1:56:38 - Wrapup
But Microsoft pressed on with the followup, Windows 2. Although most of Microsoft's time and attention was focused on their partnership with IBM to develop a shiny new operating system, OS/2, and in spite of the fact that Steve Ballmer and others inside of Microsoft saw no point in continuing to develop the successor to the original Windows release, Bill Gates refused to call a halt to its development.
Windows 2's story is a complex one, and IBM, OS/2, and OS/2's GUI Presentation Manager weave in and out of it at various points, together with Apple, HP, Compaq, and others.
It's development was also further complicated by the decision to break it into two pieces, one for 8088/8086 machines and one solely aimed at systems utilizing the powerful new 386 processor.
Battling a wide variety of obstacles, Windows 2.0 eventually succeeded in making it to market, and it and its successor Windows 2.1 eventually proved that Windows could be a viable product that could take Microsoft into the 1990s, and allow them to break free of riding the IBM tiger.
In many ways, Microsoft's incredible growth in the 1990s was rooted in the success that Windows 2x delivered. This sprawling, messy, confusing, contradictory, poorly documented and incredibly fascinating story is the focus of this video. I hope you enjoy it :)
0:00:00 - Windows 1 Post-Launch
0:07:29 - Windows 2.0 first hint
0:11:25 - Microsoft and IBM
0:24:56 - Seattle Computer Products
0:31:30 - IBM's New OS
0:33:43 - DSR and TopView
0:35:16 - Windows and SAA
0:39:53 - Winthorne
0:44:23 - Windows 2.0's development
0:54:35 - EMS 4.0
0:57:18 - Splitting Windows 2 into two versions
1:03:05 - Windows and Presentation Manager
1:11:08 - Windows/386 and Windows 2.0 shown off
1:12:47 - Windows 2.0's murky release timeline
1:21:16 - Windows 2.0 reception and use
1:29:42 - Windows/386 on The Computer Chronicles
1:37:32 - Windows 2.1
1:50:27 - HP NewWave
1:51:53 - Apple versus Microsoft
1:56:38 - Wrapup
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Windows was superior. I used OS/2 back in those days and it was shit. Don't lie. Windows was way better. Maybe you hate Microsoft, as other stupids do, but the fact is that Windows was better. Not the best, but better.
Great content. Can you do iPhone, google and more recent tech history too?
What's with the audio on this one? I had to crank the volume way up to hear you, and then Stuart Chiefet deafened me by yelling in my left ear! (Also, what are "perifrials"? Per-if-er-als.)
I managed to work on OS/2 Warp in the late 90s.
They should have copied Digital PDP systems as a priority not IBM 360 as the mainframe has a higher technology step
19:58 😂
PS/2 was Baldrick’s cunning plan … it all makes sense now.
IBM is like an agent in a suit with sunglasses sitting in front of your house in a white van, constantly watching you. But then when you confront him, you realize he's just a light sensitive, autistic man-child, that still wears suit from the funeral of his parents, and lives in said van but cannot drive.
Please God, make part 2 happen.
And the expensive products continue through to Apple.
His face is no unlike mad's one
It might be that there is a body of work that Balmer did for Microsoft where he did everything right. But so far in the early days of Windows it seems like, although he was a very important part of the decision making process he tended to advocate for the wrong side. I don't bring this up to diminish him because it's important to have someone who passionately argues for the opposition, and there are probably infinite parallel earth's where his decisions would also have worked out well, but I do have to wonder if he was the right man to leave the Microsoft empire to, when gates retired. Letting apple steal a march on them with the iPhone, and bungling Windows 8 were such impressive mistakes that I have to wonder where Microsoft would have been today with a different CEO in the 2000s.
“Neatly” think you meant “nearly”
Do you know any window software that make game console compliance
Those were the golden years of operating systems. There were so many to choose from. I was a Mac user, (I worked at Apple in the mid ‘90s). Wintel was so dominant. It’s a miracle that Apple made it out alive. Nobody else did. IBM, Sun, HP Unix, BeOS, Amiga OS, Atari, and all others, gone. Apple was so very close. I was there when they were 90 days from insolvency. Whew, it was close. If it weren’t for the smarts and charisma of Steve Jobs and quite a few Microsoft mistakes since 2000, Microsoft would be the tyrannical computing platform today, (and that’s exactly how it looked in the late ‘90s). Linux would probably be even more popular than it is now as the only alternative platform. On one of my last days at Apple, somebody handed me a MK Linux CD. I was interested. But Jobs came back, and the rest is history. I felt really bad for OS/2 users of that era. I remember very clearly how inept IBM was. That could have easily been MacOS users.
This work is very important. Thank you for your dedication.
Thank you so much for the kind words, glad you are enjoying the videos!
NeXT is an extremely important chapter of Job’s life. Today’s Apple is only possible because of the work done at NeXT. Much of NeXT is still at the heart of every OS Apple powers their hardware with. Using a UNIX-like microkernel, (much of Mach has been removed from MacOS according to the folks working on the BSD kernel), a Postscript windowing kernel, (now PDF based and called Quartz - which always set all Apple operating systems apart), Object Oriented Programming, fast video and audio I/O, and its ability to server boot, (a feature I wish Apple never removed). Jobs had a T1 line routed to his house, and that worked well for him. No one else did at home! With today’s 5Gb fiber optics internet now available this feature would be interesting to have. Nevertheless it was mainly designed for the classroom by the time it became Apple’s. You may remember when Jobs rolled out a bunch of iMacs on a huge cart and they were all booted and running from one server. Great demo. Just a little head of its time. Great video too. Thanks!
This all makes the Amiga story even more sadder. Lightyears ahead of these systems in the 80's.
Wow this documentary just blew my perception away & exploded into full understanding the toxic work environment that Gates & Balmer brought at Microsoft. I mean both come off as immature punks who were incredibly smart as they were systematically imploding their business. Its tragic because the people who quit are your best people & those two idiots i picture as being spoiled little rich kids who had no discipline but knew how to fake it real fast when Big Blue walked in holding the check book. They sound, hate to say, like Gen-Z today but radically different than most Gen-Xers were back then… hard workers working for low pay & always competing with Boomers who always got the job we applied for, always made more, as we struggled for 20 years doing all their work as they got all the credit & made the money and then we get fired when they mess up. I had never thought of Gates evil like that. I mean i know Steve Jobs was & Apple still is but Microsoft really changed how businesses treat people after Windows 95, so i thought? It all makes sense. No wonder Paul Allen left & i also heard Gates tried to cheat him out of his shares so now this makes sense considering he basically acted like a wild chimp while his Orangutang boyfriend Steve Balmer just as wild but orange. Damn! And i thought Boeing was bad. It sure explains why they never redesigned their jets to work off Windows & were re-training newly graduated software engineers to design systems working off ms-DOS back on the first 737 max. They had never seen something so old & their job was to make it work on a 1965 designed Jet revamped as the max in 2012. As always hardware blames the software & software (who makes more income & have attitude issues) they blame hardware & end result is nothing gets done and… as engineers running things they will NEVER be done because its impossible to make something perfect an engineer will always find improvements & will never be done. Sounds exactly like Bill Gates… never done. Tearing everything apart & improving it is why it took so long & entirely Bills fault. If it wasnt for Balmer saying “DONE BILL” they would still be working on Windows. And thats exactly what management at Boeing did to engineers on the max. Unfortunately people die if their products are wrong, but having ones career die by being mentally slapped around by your abusive boss, getting into shouting matches, is just ugly, low, a real pos. Sorry.
AMAZING!
Can't wait for the third part
The topic is not boring enough to warrant background muzak. Came here after watching part 3, which didn't have it, and the muzak is quite distracting and a bit too loud. Would be a good idea to reup with no music
Thank you for putting in the work to make these so informative
Glad you are enjoying them!
I remember these times very well. IBM took the market at first because Tandy was way behind in processing power. However IBM was way too slow to react to all the clones that followed it. They were also the most expensive. That turned a lot of people of off including me. IBM never did catch up. I remember how you would see a lot of IBMs around the office while everybody had a clone of some type at home. That period last for several years. The 286, 386 and the 486, I had or used all of them. Gates was right, the 286 was kinda brain dead.
Russia (pre-SU), SU, Warsaw pact, and Russia today are quite different in many regards. Still, they are also quite similar in many significant details, mainly (save for the brief window of freedom after the dissolution of the SU) characterized by oppression of own population, with help of an oversized and almost uncontrolled security apparatus, forced poverty, and propaganda; occasionally sprinkled with imperialistic aggression.
I smell foul play with that plane crash
Combing on old TV footage, you should have deinterlaced it. There are ways to remove combing on footage that has been converted to progressive with baked-in combing, although at a cost of reduced vertical resolution.
6:25 - In 1974, the Ukrainian SSR had red over azure bicolor flag with a golden hammer and sickle and gold-bordered star, not bicolor blue-and-yellow flag Ukraine has now.
It is not [ˈraɪəd], it is [rʲæd].
yes i installed it, OS/2. I loved the idea of multi OS.
Unless you worked there during that era you can’t fathom the level of dysfunction….arrogance.
I dunno, i could discount the Balmer internal commercial as just for the lulz, but not after seeing him in his other appearances. I wonder how people like that ever find themselves in positions of influence...
Gates idea to adjust and charge and set boundary?
I feel that the next vision of Linux n window n iOS. The first out like allows were the artist is, but the money is found after the dust settles.
I am only a Microsoft user because of the discounted college or education version of the office at UofA.
I think it's incredible that Portal exists as a euphemism for Gabe's time and pressure in working on Windows.
Closing out with an editorial from OS/2 professional was a really nice, poetic touch. I come away from this thinking about the whole story as a tragedy - where many people with good intentions, skills and hard work fail to achieve what rightfully they should have in light of external circumstances, many of which were themselves not maliciously created, but rather the product of not understanding the situation.
I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS VIDEO AT ALL AND DO NOT THINK THE RUSSIANS EVER GOT IBM TYPE COMPUTERS RUNNING. In the 1980's, 1970's I was a programmer, consultant, college teacher, programmer trainer. I had many FAKE SOVIET PROGRAMMERS, AND FAKE IVEY LEAGUE(HARVARD, YALE, CORNELL, COLUMBIA, BARD, NYU) PROGRAMMERS THESE FAKE PROGRAMMERS CLAIMED TO KNOW IBM COMPATIBLE SYSTEMS. THEY KNEW NOTHING AT ALL. IN MY CLASSES IN COLLEGES, TRADE SCHOOLS, JOB TRAINING PROGRAMS I ALWAYS HAD TO START AT "0" AND ASSUME THESE "SOVIETS" AND AMERICAN IVEY LEAGUE STUDENTS KNEW NOTHIG AT ALL!!!!
I misread the title... thought it said the rise of Microdots and Windows ... sorry, just came from watching a video on LSD. Ha! :P
I've been running Debian successfully as my daily driver since 1997.
It is still used today on some printing presses that I work on. Warp 4.
I can't wait for the next episode. Great work, thank you Sir!
There was in fact a standard for personal computers, and it was very good, and popular, maybe not so in the USA and that doesn't make it less important: MSX!!! It came with Microsoft MSX Basic, and it was very good. Even a few game franchises were first developed here, such as Metal Gear. How come you dismissed this?
Very educational, already waiting for part 3. I started using computers with the 486DX2/66 cpu with msdos 6.22 and win 3.11. Wow the hardware changed so much.
The rise of Wind💩ows 🤫🫣
I didn't knowanyone could talk so long without taking a breath. I had a hard time keeping up. That said thanks for the video, very interesting!
I really love this video! I am wondering if anyone in the comments section would happen to know of any one who still works at IBM. I have an idea that I would like to pitch to IBM, but when I tried submitting my idea to IBM, it got rejected because I had no market research about my idea. I am only one person, so I can't produce any market research. Any information would be greatly appreciated!
YOU HAVEN'T GOT THE CODE FOR WINDOWS. WHAT YOU'VE GOT IS 8086 AND DOS-86 86-DOS is a "quick and dirty" operating system clone of CP/M created by Seattle Computer Products for their 8086 S-100 systems. It was later bought by Microsoft and used as the basis for IBM PC-DOS and MS-DOS. Windows 1.0 and DOS 1.0, Require a 8088 CPU, Which You Dont Have. 8088 has Hardware Accelerations, for DOS 1.0 and Windows 1.0 Windows 2.0, requires a 80286 Processor. If You Had that, You'd KNOW: You Cant SEPARATE Microsoft from Intel.
Your ARM CPU is Like a 8086. The 8088 has Hardware Acceleration for DOS and Windows. Something You Dont KNOW.