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Was Jonestown an experiment for what they're doing to our society today? Woketown

So what he is saying that an all powerful God, is not powerful enough to make his sons and daughter like him? He is therefore not all powerful. A bit of irony.

Just look at the biblical context of the word Father, and you will see that a father is not only your literal parent, but anyone you look up to and try to emulate. Just like "brother" and "sister" are words you use to acknowledge someone as your equal as well as your literal siblings. We will never be brothers and sisters of our Father in Heaven, even if we become gods ourselves, we will always be His children. As we become like God it only elevates and glorifies Him as The God of gods. All we do and become, if it is His work, adds to His glory. Your parents will always be your parents; even when you become a parent yourself. Surely, if God is all-powerful, He has the ability to reproduce like even the least His creations.

how can you say Christ is co-equal with the Father when Christ himself says, "my father is greater than I"?

Why Mormonism is not considered a branch of any category of Christianity. See Cardinal Ladera’s response as to why when Mormons become Catholic they must be baptized properly since the one received is invalid. See article below. Basically… Mormonism understanding of God and the Trinity are of a different matrix,… it cannot be considered any form or type of Christianity. It borrows ideas of Christianity, but substantially is a whole different type of religion of not Christian origin. THE QUESTION OF THE VALIDITY OF BAPTISM CONFERRED IN THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS* Fr Luis Ladaria, S.J. August 2001. “The words Father, Son and Holy Spirit, have for the Mormons a meaning totally different from the Christian meaning. The differences are so great that one cannot even consider that this doctrine is a heresy which emerged out of a false understanding of the Christian doctrine. The teaching of the Mormons has a completely different matrix.” “According to the New Testament, there is an essential difference between the Baptism of John and Christian Baptism. The Baptism of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which originated not in Christ but already at the beginning of creation (James E. Talmage, Articles of Faith [AF], Salt Lake City: Desert Book, 1990, cf. pp. 110-111), is not Christian Baptism; indeed, it denies its newness.” I think that’s why Mormons find themselves at doctrinal, theological, patristics and philosophical odds with Christians. The fundamentals of who God is differs from historical Christianity.

Christians adopted philosophical language to describe what was already in scripture. Colossians 1:15-19 [15] He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. [16] For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things were created through him and for him. [17] And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. [18] And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. [19] For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell…

Funny analysis. Literally laughing out loud at your comments. Why not? Where does it say that? So someone just decided this for you and now you have to go along with it? I love the Latter Day Saint theology so much. It frees you from the shackles of the made up philosophies of man and this terrible spaghetti-like argument of the Godhead.

Love this channel

Just ignoring the council of Jerusalem I see. 😅 Even the apostles like Paul were concerned with what is and is not a Christian. There’s no way you can condemn the latter church for the very same behavior the Apostles engaged in.

Wasn’t the term ‘Christian’ first given to the church in Antioch centuries prior to the Nicene council? So why do we define Christian as someone who adheres to the creeds?

unfortunately this video only serves to force a wider divide between catholics and lds. In context of the discussion Horn is clearly explaining the catholic viewpoint, but this video presents as though he is making truth claims, then disputing the idea that it's true. Jacob does a great job of working to build bridges during the discussion and it's a shame we dont get to see him do that here.

The LDS faith relies on the authority of the Catholic Church to consider the Bible Canon. But I suppose Jesus showed up and Christs Church immediately fell into apostasy. When I was LDS, I was always taught that the Catholic Church was "whore of all the earth". After my experience Iraq and leaving the Church; I found the LDS foundation to be very shallow. Also, LDS culture is not found of those who don’t serve missions, there is allot of pharisee like behavior in the LDS church. The Mormon traditional lacks the epistemology and scholastic traditions to even defend truth. The Mormon faith is emotional, arian and simplistic; it is feeling. The craziest concept to me when I was becoming Catholic, was the historicity of the resurrection and the legitimacy of the early Church fathers. They do not expect me to deny reality and rely on faith alone. I pray that Catholic Church can find a way to repurposed Mormon Temples and remove all the masonic and pagan symbols from them once their heresy is finally expunged. Jesus is Lord.

The name mormon was put upon us by our enemies during the early days of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints in a derogatory meaning.. It would not be rude if you called us Latter Day Saints , and we would appreciate that. Just to clear up the mis-understanding. The LDS Church is the one and only true Church on the earth as its name tells you. So we don't need to be on any other channels. We should spend our time more wisely than that.

Yes, when protestants say " _sola scriptura_ " whats really meant is *Bible + Creeds.* And, when catholics say " _christ's church_ " whats really meant is *Creeds - Bible* .

scriptural mormonism with robert boylan destroys trent horn.

26:15 jesus certainly did not believe that. "be ye perfect, even as your father in heaven is perfect."

19:00 the "classical view" states that the sun orbits the earth.

13:20 "god is not limited in power" ? does that mean god can make 2+2=5 ?

12:47 nowhere does any scripture confirm that. nor does christ, nor any apostle, nor any prophet. nor does god, himself.

You just earned a new follower. Great work

I can’t believe that his justification for why his interpretation of God is right because people who are Jewish, Muslim, and Pagan agree. That is not a good thing!

I love what you said about who cares what you believe. Faith is not the same as belief. Faith is trust and belief that leads to action. Without action it is dead.

You create a false Godhead you create a false religion that isn't Christianity. Many creeds came before the Bible was canonized. Your ignorance of the Council of Niceae is pathetic: 1. They were there to rule on Arius Excommunication by his Bishop 2. They had to change the Greek philosophical language on the Trinity to get rid of the loophole that Arius said was there and why his teaching was orthodox. Obviously his Bishop didn't think it was and that's why he Excommunicated Arius. The church upheld the Bishops Excommunication and thus had to change the Greek language to stop this herecy from continuing. Your classical statements R pure idiocy as the Trinity comes from the TWO POWERS in HEAVEN israelite theology of the 2nd temple period. It is true ( the Trinity)came from the Binary TWO Powers in Heaven israelite theology. TWO persons of the YHWH R in Genesis 19:24 and the Spirit of YHWH is also mention in the Hebrew Bible. Tapirs R horses in Mormonism: that makes NO sense.

Horn errs in not being able to distinguish between heresy and infidelity. The former is a corruption of truth claim X, for example Arians who rejected the consubstantiality claims of trinitarianism (from a trinitarian perspective). The latter is disbelief in truth claim X. For example, a Muslim rejecting the divinity claims about Jesus of Nazareth.

My favorite response i received on my mission to describe the trinity was, "of course it doesn't make sense. Imagine a tree growing but the roots are reaching to the sky, it just doesn't fit in our understanding".

It's funny because Jacob's big schtick on his channel is, who's a real Mormon and who's not. He's always calling Mormons out who he thinks are "doing it wrong". Simultaneously he sooo desperately wants Mormons to be seen as Christians by other Christians, just "a little weird and different" Christians. The irony is lost on him.

The Jacob/Trent pre debate chit chat was pretty good. Trent made the actual debate painful. 😢

great video! love your channel.

I would agree with Trent that God/Christ/Heaven don't *have* to be inside the universe as we know it. In fact, scientifically, most of the universe is not in the universe as we know it. Most of the universe is in "dark matter" and "dark energy" which are called dark because we figure they must be there indirectly from some calculations, but we have no clue what they are. We can't see them. We don't know by what laws they operate. So, scientifically, we KNOW that most of the universe is invisible to us. And that's just what we know we don't know. What about all that we don't have a clue about? Other dimensions in this universe, or even other universes? Keeping in mind a very open mind about existence beyond what we know as the universe, there are ways you can look at creedal Christians as correct on many points from a perspective of only the universe as we know, while the LDS view differs because it takes into account things that happen outside of the universe as we know it (revealed through prophets). A possible interpretation of Mormonism: that God exists outside this universe and created this universe, and that when we are made perfect, we will transcend this universe and create our own. From the point of view of this universe, God has always been, he must exist (because he's why the universe exists), he has always been perfect (in the timeline of this universe), and man will never become a creator like him in *this* universe. From the point of view of an exaltation that transcends the universe, things look different. At some point, if we are to be perfected in Christ, omniscient like God, it may happen outside of this universe. Then when we create a universe as God has shown us and enabled us to do, from the perspective of people in *that* universe and their timeline, we will always have been perfect, all-knowing, without beginning or end, because we have no beginning or end in their concept of time. ---- Now this doesn't fix the creedal notion of an immaterial God instead of a bodily God, but I do think begins to hint out how finite beings can become eternal and infinite like God, which makes the bodily nature of God easier to understand and believe.

as a latter day saint, the reason mormons are never invited onto catholic channels, is because they arent seen as christain. they are seen as some weird outside "cult". and thus, any opinion or insights they can give are automatically bad.

Trent Horn: Protestants don't have authority to say people are or are not Christians, because they are sola scriptura and the Bible never explicitly lays out the edges of Christianity. My church *does* have that authority. Why? Horn: Because the creeds of my church say so.

Your channel is very underrated. I enjoyed this video

Comment for the algorithm. More people need to understand this. The church is true the book is blue.

To Trent I would ask, Why was a council and new Creed even necessary if the Catholic church was always Christ's church? And why did it take almost 300 years after Christ to come to determine these beliefs? If this was still Christ's church surely these beliefs would have been determined while Christ or at least his original Apostles were still on the earth.

Having served my mission in Greece, it was interesting to see how much Hellenism influenced early Christianity. A good example of this was their veneration of golden images of saints which they would kiss and pray to. Orthodox churches are beautiful, but I often thought of how the gold plated images of saints at the back of the church that people were praying to reminded me of ancient Greek temples and their patrons praying to their preferred god for help and blessings. I think Truman Madsen said the marriage of Hellenism and Christianity was one of the most disastrous things to have happened to the Church. - Peter did not pass his keys on to Linus (the Catholic selected 2nd Pope) - Pope Urban I was elected (not selected by Christ or His apostles) - The Catholic position is that Bishops took charge of the Church after the death of the apostles. - Our position is that the apostles were supposed to continue as a quorum leading the Church through Revelation but when they were killed the keys to direct the Church were lost and these keys were not passed to Bishops for multiple reasons. - The Catholics and Orthodox had the "great schism" in 1054 where 2 prominent bishops disagreed and split the "Church" up. - Didn't Christ say a house divided against itself cannot stand? - Nibley said the Christian Church went from being led by revelation to being led by philosophical councils. - The end of the New Testament and Protestant Reformation are proof positive that the Church had lost its way and become a keyless zombie church. Where is Trent's proof of the ontological divide between God and man? We cannot trust the councils. I'm fascinated by how much other Christians try to distance themelves from the Biblical doctrine that we are the children of God by saying we are "creatures" as if we're on the same level as animals and while we can all agree that the difference in character and power between Who God is and who we are is massive, that doesn't mean we aren't the children of God. What did Christ say? "Come, follow me" said Christ - isn't the ultimate implication of this invitation echoed in His other declaration on the Sermon on the Mount, "Be ye therefore perfect as your Father is who is in heaven"? We're invited to become like God by following Christ and learning to be perfect as He is. "What came through Joseph Smith was beyond Joseph Smith, and it stretched him! In fact, the doctrines that came through that “choice seer” (2 Nephi 3:6-7) by translation or revelation, are often so light-intensive that, like radioactive materials, they must be handled with great care!" Neal Maxwell, "A Choice Seer" 1986. With Maxwell's quote in mind I would say that modern Christianity is not equipped to handle the "light-intensive" doctrines of the Restoration and as such are treated like "radioactive" materials by the rest of Christiandom. New wine cannot go into old/broken wineskins, folks.

Great topic TJ!

Bs

It is so funny that the antichrists still use this pathetic lie, especially that Heavenly Father notes further in the chapter that "man has become as one of us, knowing good from evil." Man truly became an agent for themselves once they had the ability to differentiate between good and evil. They were no longer innocent, but accountable. Satan's lie was "you shall not die". We know spiritual death came on quickly, while physical death came later. The scripture in question has nothing to do with eternal life/becoming as our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ are (although there are multiple scriptural and early Christian sources that document that truth), but not in that verse. As always, the antichrists prey on the ignorant, uneducated, weak, and lazy among those whom they peddle their deceptions. Also, great breakdown here Halestorm with the scriptures in the chapter.

"philosophies of men mingled with scripture"

I hate these type of holier than thou channels that do nothing but talk shit about fellow believers who are actually on the field of battle trying to reach the lost

Interesting that Frank misses as well (or avoids) that apostles and prophets (and thus continuing revelation and scripture) are to continue in the Lord's Church until everyone comes into a unity of faith.

Since Saul didn't write Ephesians, no he didn't say that. Nothing Saul did write is scripture and he sats so himself. Only the Tanakh is scripture.

Yahushua never started a new religion. Christianity is an apostate false religion.

Where are your beliefs in church history? Is it true that there were none saved from the apostles through Joseph smith?

This is just sad

I converted to the LDS Church twenty-six years ago. Every day I get more and more confirmation that I did the right thing.

You are fooled by a fake prophet. Don’t misuse scripture. You follow a FALSE religion. It is only through Christ and Faith in Him that we are saved. Repent, put Joseph Smith 6 ft under where he belongs and follow Jesus.

9:38 LITERALLY NO EVANGELICALS say you shouldn’t do good works. That’s a straw man argument. We acknowledge that we cannot be SAVED BY WORKS. BIG DIFFERENCE.

Mormonism is NOT CHRISTIANITY. it is false. You follow a false prophet if you follow Mormonism. Following Joseph Smith alone makes you a heretic since he was a heretic.

Without gatekeeping we end up with all these false Christianity like Mormonism and progressive Christianity and prosperity gospel and JW. This is eternal salvation we are talking about! It is vital to get it right! If it does not align with the Holy Bible it is false! It is your choice to believe or not but you do not have the right to water it down or alter it!!