Video

That generally happens when the tree is too wide most likely in angle. Very common today as there is a trend to make saddles wide and hope that extra padding will fill in but padding doesn't fix mismatched angles. www.rodnikkel.com/content/saddle-tree-blog-from-shop-and-desk/padding-doesnt-fix-mismatched-angles/

Thanks for the helpful video I really appreciate it and the article. I wish there was somewhere local I could get my horse fitted. I’m frustrated, I have five older saddles and none of them fit. I didn’t realize this was going to be such a hassle.

@@rebekahlaflin3565 Western saddles are like women's clothing. The numbers don't mean anything. You have to try them on to know if they fit! If you can try different saddles on, and then follow the principles in this video, and if you want, you can get our Western Saddle Fit - the Basics video that has LOTS more information, that will give you confidence in checking the saddle for fit before you buy. vimeo.com/ondemand/westernsaddlefitbasics

Glad you found it helpful!!

I am so glad you we were able to give you some information for which you have been looking. Please feel free to share! And check out our website for lots more information and also more videos. westernsaddlefit.com/

Thank you very much!!

Thank you!!

It is the most common thing we see wrong with saddles and horses! Glad you found it helpful!

Thank you!

You are so welcome!

Horses do have different shaped backs, but there are "body types" of horses (not always breed related) where they are similar enough that one saddle will fit horses within that body type well. Good Western saddles have enough surface area that even if every part of the bar is not on the horse, there is still enough contact area to not sore them - so long as nothing is poking in, no high pressure areas. Padding is also really important, as you understand. Here's a blog post that may help explain a bit better. www.rodnikkel.com/content/saddle-tree-blog-from-shop-and-desk/saddle-fit-and-the-bell-curve/

You have everything on your horse that contributes to a saddle moving forward. I would suggest you check out your saddle fit as we describe in this video: czcams.com/video/mWoORDN8_R8/video.html Western Saddle Fit: The Essentials. If it all checks out that way, then a britching might be the best way to go for this horse. But a good fitting saddle with lots of surface area in contact with the horse will do a lot to keep the saddle in place, even with these difficult issues.

Have you tried a cross girth system?

That would have been a good idea!! We did have chalk lines in some pictures, and the problem is that the skin and the underlying structures like the shoulder blades move relative to each other, so the lines are not always in the correct places. But at least it would have given people a good visual. I guess you just have to sharpen up your imagination... :)

Glad it was helpful!

Actually, when there is no weight on the leg, as when the shoulder blade comes back, there is no pressure between the saddle and the shoulder. Our video about the Proper Position of the Western Saddle has the pressure mat data that shows this to be true. Check it out! czcams.com/video/zfAfBab74EA/video.html

You are very welcome!!

Thank you! We do...

Young horses don't have as much rock in their back as they will when they get older, so it is not uncommon that most saddles have excess rock for a young horse. That is only one reason that saddles will lift in the back, but the most likely one for a young horse. (To check for more reasons, click this link for the first of three blog posts on the issue: www.rodnikkel.com/content/saddle-tree-blog-from-shop-and-desk/why-does-my-saddle-lift-back-part-one/ ) The spinal processes (the bones that make up the withers) are also still growing, so young horses tend to have rounder backs than they will as they get older. The pad shifting shows that the saddle isn't fitting well. A saddle that fits well now is not likely to fit really well in a couple of years. So for now I would look for something with a wider bar angle but not necessarily a wide bar spread, because the horse is not likely really large bodied yet, and a flatter bar. But before you do that make sure you check your tree as we show you in this video to see if what I am suggesting really is the problem or not. (If you want more information we have a 67 minute video for sale that will expand on what we say in this free video: vimeo.com/ondemand/westernsaddlefitbasics )

When you see the cards in place, either in pictures or in real life, you can tell how tall the gullet is. Then we, as tree makers, would know what we would have to do to clear the gullet. This is where working with a good saddle and tree maker who is familiar with the cards really helps as they know how the cards relate to how they build or order their trees. For long distance customers we would ask for pictures with the cards in place so we could see the horse and the wither.

This is chopped up because it is just a taste of what is in the real video, which is 67 minutes long. If you watch it, you will learn more of what we know. It is available here: vimeo.com/ondemand/westernsaddlefitbasics

Cheyenne rolls are good. The one in this video is called a straight up binding.

@@westernsaddlefit4729 Good to know, thank you

@@juliojames5986 You are very welcome!!

Lilly Mae, here are some links to some blog posts that explain why western saddles can sit on the loin without problems. No, you don't want high pressure on the loin (or anywhere) but the idea that you can't have any pressure there or it will harm your horse and cause bucking is not true. There is no research that shows that, especially on western saddles, while real world experience says the opposite. Enjoy the read!! www.rodnikkel.com/content/saddle-tree-blog-from-shop-and-desk/can-the-loin-of-the-horse-carry-weight/ www.rodnikkel.com/content/index.php/saddle-tree-blog-from-shop-and-desk/all-western-saddles-extend-over-the-loin/

Thank you! We worked hard on it!

No. She is well within the common wither heights we dealt with. She has a nice wither - not mutton withered.

@@westernsaddlefit4729 okay. Our new horse is built very similarly so that helps me to know that. Thank you.

@@jaredsolko2125 Your horse shouldn't be difficult to fit. This is nice back shape for a saddle.

It took much planning, a day of filming and much editing, but we wanted to get as much information in as little time as possible. I'm glad you appreciated it!

Glad you understand and appreciate the importance of this! It really does make a difference!

@@westernsaddlefit4729 Hi again , Just thought i would let you Know I tried this on me mare today Wow …w h a t A DIFFERENCE 👍🙏⭐️ Thank you for sharing your good advice ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

@@bronwynmines7864 You are very welcome and so glad you are seeing the difference it makes to your horse!

Glad you enjoyed it

There are a number of reasons a saddle can lift at the back. Here is the link to the first of three blog posts about why it happens. www.rodnikkel.com/content/saddle-tree-blog-from-shop-and-desk/why-does-my-saddle-lift-back-part-one/ The other blog posts are linked. If you check out our Essentials video (or, even better yet, go to westernsaddlefit.com and order our Basics video) you will learn how to check your saddle to figure out which if the issues might be causing the problem. If you have a forward rigging position (full or 7/8th), yes, you need to use a back cinch. I hope this helps!!

@@westernsaddlefit4729 thank you so much this will help a lot! I really want my horse to be comfortable so I’m trying to learn as much as I can!

@@beanjohnson1358 Good for you! Position is the most important thing because if it is wrong, everything else will be wrong too.

Padding lifts the front more than the back so what you are seeing is normal with padding. It is sounding good. Try it and see what your horse says but I expect it will work well.

Great idea! Depending on conformation, the mane will be at a different place relative to the back of the shoulder blade, but this will give you a great visual reminder of where to position your saddle. Just make sure you check by feel every now and then to make sure the mane is still cut at the correct place.

Thank you!

Glad you enjoyed it!

You never want anything Poking the horse, of course. But the skirts do not bear any weight beyond maybe an inch or so past the bars. So whether a skirt around the hip causes problems or not depends on the quality of the leather, how stiff or pliable it is, and how the skirts are made. If they are soft and ride over the hip without rubbing, there is no issue. If they are stiffer and jab into the horse as he moves, then yes, they are a problem. Check the horse for soreness and rub marks if you are concerned. If neither are there, then the skirts pose no problem. If they are, then either the skirts need to be modified by a saddle maker so they lift more at the back, or another saddle can be tried.

You are very welcome!

There is a common idea that says you can't have any weight behind T18/last rib. This has never been studied academically, and honestly, in practice, every western saddle out there extends onto the loin of the horse, and so long as the shapes fit, the horses are fine. What you don't want is high pressure there, especially at the back bar tips. So long as the bars have some relief built into the back bar tips as we demonstrate in the video, you can have the back bar tips extend to 1-2 inches ahead of the point of the hip. You don't want skirts or pads to rub on the hip either, so rounded skirts on shorter backed horses are preferred.

@@westernsaddlefit4729 Thank you

@@Bethelhorses You are very welcome!

You are very welcome!

Glad you like the video! Yes, we discuss this more in our longer videos accessible via WesternSaddleFit.com. The "vertical girth in the girth groove" rule doesn't apply to western saddles due to their basic design. Centerfire riggings are an example of riggings much farther back that work well with more slab sided horses, especially historically. With western saddles, you cannot have a vertical cinch in the "girth groove" unless the rigging is well ahead of the full position, and this is demonstrated in our other videos. A good fitting western saddle will not be pulled out of position by an angled cinch. That said, some body types of horses (very round barrels) do benefit from a 7/8th rigging position as opposed to 3/4 or farther back. There are a number of cinches on the market now trying to help keep the pull as vertical as possible. It is important to feel under the cinch all the way around the barrel, as some designs, including the one you mention, can, on some horses, tilt the cinch so all the pressure is on the back edge of it, creating really high pressure points. So cinches need to be felt under as well as saddles! Thanks for watching!

Glad you found it useful!

You are very welcome!

Thank you!

Thank you! Feel free to share! And if you want to see more of our videos, here's a link to some we have for sale: westernsaddlefit.com/video There are also links to many of our blog posts on that website as well. Enjoy!

It is so important. We are amazed more people don't talk about it either!

@@westernsaddlefit4729 my Tennessee Walker has high withers and I've not found the right saddle for her yet.

They can be harder to find these days. Maybe try a good quality older saddle. Horses in decades past used to have higher withers than many today.

@@westernsaddlefit4729 THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR RESPONSE. I just bought an old Lamb saddle. I'm hoping this one will fit. She wasn't there to try it on. It looks like it might work. So hoping. I cannot afford to pay $2000 for a saddle. But I refuse to ride a saddle that will hurt her. Lol, she's alittle spoiled but hey, she carries my fat butt, so I owe her for that! All joking aside, she's a very good girl! And I try to do her right. 😇

Thank you.

Thank you very much! Glad you found it helpful.

Thank you so much! That’s why I would ride bareback so my horse would be comfortable!! Now I can put the saddle on correct!

Glad we could be of help!!

You are very welcome!

Thank you! That is one of two saddles Rod Nikkel made for himself.

@@westernsaddlefit4729 Is Rod still making saddles for the public?

@@loryspencer8215 We never made saddles for the public - just saddle trees. Rod only built two saddles, both for himself. He sold the first one before he made the second one, with 10 years in between. We are no longer making trees either. We shut down the tree shop in 2016.

@@westernsaddlefit4729 What a shame!

@@loryspencer8215 Life changes - but we still own that saddle!

You are very welcome!

Glad it was helpful!

Glad it was helpful!

The side view doesn't give you a good view of the shape of the seat which was shaped to fit the owner - me!! Please believe me when I say it is very comfortable.

Shape is more important than padding when it comes to saddles.