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They need to consult with physicists on huge setups like this. They shouldn't have to be guessing how fast riders need to go and what size transition to use on the lip. All this could be calculated ahead of time. It's possible to build gnarlier setups like this and still keep things relatively safe. Jim's crash was completely avoidable if Red Bull had just done their physics homework.

they've built it to sell the poison known as red bull

Hasnt gone far enough. Too easy tbh

I guess at this level I don't understand how they could make a kicker ramp the bucks riders. Who designed and built the stupid thing? The speeds are extremely high and the transition is too quick...and why the flat? It's a terrible design and even the riders should be experienced enough to look at it and say no way.

Yes they've gone too far! A 67% success rate thus far is not enough when the consequence is so high!

The jump itself isn’t so extreme (other than the glaring omission of safety nets over the canyon), but I don’t understand why they were surprised the kicker was too abrupt. All they had to do was build a 1:1 scale replica in a safe place to test the speed, take-off and landings thoroughly (and maybe use an inflatable landing ramp at first), before building the final version on the side of the mountain that they would then know would work safely.

N then it pisses down of rain the winds get ups n it's cancelled again 😂😂

I agree, but that shit belongs to another category.

Wise words mate.

I agree 100 percent

Seriously whose idea was this feature? I agree %100 that Hardline has always been about biking down difficult terrain. Not scaffolding. Imagine with all of this hype and question about this jump’s safety, if someone does miss the landing and falls down that cliff and gets seriously injured or possibly killed?? What then? I mean come on now…I watched Matt’s video and there’s shots of him peeking over the edge of that jump, there is no safe miss. It’s almost a guarantee if someone doesn’t make it they’re going to get severely injured..sounds like crazy lawsuits, and bad injuries and not worth it.

I have never been so scared for someone else doing a jump as i was while watching Matt Jones' video, I was so uncomfortable.

and that's why they called it a test. BK mentioned fixing the ramp. i'm all for keeping it, it's not even the longest one on the course. I'm not a ramp builder but...if you know an average riders weight and the length of the gap, it should be easy to figure out what the takeoff and landing ramp should be shaped like (with options of course due to speed and desired loft), don't these builders use that info on these types of ramps? it's high school physics?

Mate People die on all sorts of rad sports. F1, surfing, motocross, skydiving etc.. if you are into it you got to take the risk. If not, go play chess

For me the more offensive then the size of the gaps was how janky and out of place those scaffolds were - a true eye-sore, more belonging in a post-apocalyptic Hardline that were held at some delapidated factory, rather than pristine green and lush landscapes.... About crashes - people also crash heavily at your run-off-the-mill WC rounds, so it is hard to judge just by example of three guys having attempted it. The pressure at the Hardline to go more and more crazy has been apparent. Today's meedia is short of resuming true gladiator fights where the blood pours and bones crush and the participants get memed for life and killed....

There’s a difference between building a jump where if you crash you’ll break a bone and a jump where if you fall into the canyon you die.

If everyone makes it then it’ll will be the best thing ever and fist bumps all round, just takes one rider to not make it and Redbull will be slammed with a load of bad publicity and sadly MTB will be in the mainstream media for all the wrong reasons! Bit strange they’re saying they’ll put a net under it now after someone nearly ends themselves on it🤦🏼‍♂️ net first then test it!🤷🏼‍♂️

Whether it’s this year or in the future someone will die because it’s going beyond what’s humanely possible. Who is going to then take the blame, because it seems like the riders are being coerced into taking these risks.

title typo, should be "too far"

I think they should keep it, it's going to be really sick. They can put up nets and pads for testing.

It's not the riders fault that the production companies of these sports are desensitised to the crazy stuff/speeds they ride at. I've ridden for 30 years, as a target audience (which must be ALL mtbers), we can fully appreciate how nuts a course like Hardline is. Do we need to see riders possibly getting killed just so as I can sit eating crisps on a Sunday, to appreciate the skill of the sport?! These guys are incredible athletes, it was an uncomfortable watch, but understand they want to elevate the course/event, especially now they have changed direction from the DH World Cups. More objectively speaking, and perhaps more constructively - this is a race against the clock. They aren't rewarding riders for jumping/creativity and bravery/risk like something like rampage. A jump like that has very little impact on timing, every rider will hit and clear it point to point in a similar time. Therefore, it becomes of very little significance in terms of ranking at the bottom of the hill. For me, that shows lack of regard for what the riders are being put through. If you want to put things in perspective, maybe send a really really good normal rider down these courses, maybe between every 10/20 pros, give them at least a months practise, and lets compare them to these top riders. Ha. If the riders want it to be like this to progress, then I fully support it. If it's purely about shock and awe, and getting clicks, then I'd rather it got in the sea thank you very much. I'd bet that the whole returning audience is mtbers who appreciate a slippery rock face just as much as they appreciate a huge double lip to lip. Thanks for opening up the chat Dean. It's a dialogue worth having, regardless of the outcome. Just to show love and respect to these guys. Incredible.

They were talking about putting a net up. Crazy that a few have already hit it, but Jims crash shows why there should've been a net in the first place, a jumps not worth someones life

If they don't want to take it...they can race in WC.

"Progressing the sport" lol once someone dies the sport will be set back much more, not just form a rider perspective but from a RedBull/marketing perspective because you will have had a live broadcasted event where your viewers have seen someone freaking DIE. Related hot take: I don't want a Hardline series from Red Bull. I'm totally down to see some of the WC pros tackle a normal WC track with Rob and Elliot commentating.

how about Hairline

How about the fact this limits the event to like 9 riders...few of which are really that great at racing.. Bring back real Hardline...not nitros circus

Its the same distance as the Rampage canyon gap no ones freaking out about that

Have to agree. These guys might be the best in the world but now the invited riders need to decide if it's worth it, and if they choose not to ride the fans might think less of them. Difficult position to put the riders in. Also, if it goes wrong it may very well be the end of their career, risking serious injury or even life.

This jump gives me the same vibes as rampage. And I love/hate watching rampage for this reason it's thrilling to watch and it's insane to see these jumps being jumped. But I don't want to see the crash or hear of a crash the day after you know. Jumps like thisthough they could use some maths and science and have the perfect shaped ramp made up, some engineer could even figure out the speed required and create a run in that uniforms the speed making it safer. But I feel like these jumps are just eyeballed and that's terrifying. Or hey maybe they get plans from an engineer who does the maths about speed and all that. Hell I bet someone even has a program that can run the simulations for different sized and shaped ramps. Take a level of danger and uncertainty out of the testing process. Long winded I know, 😅

I was hoping the era of downhill trying to be bad motocross or stuntmen on bikes was coming to an end. The sport has so much more finesse and nuances to it than that, the racing side is now getting better that the negatively from certain people is now absent from that scene. But then You see the same people who never even liked downhill desperately trying to tag content along aside to to get money out off something they do nothing but bitch about.

100% this is going a step to far. What next!

The drop if it goes wrong reminds me of brendogs canyon gap from the last rampage. Which was one guy hitting it maybe three four times. But with a full roster or riders doing lots of runs then at race pace. There are for sure going to be injuries

the scaffolding is an absolute disgrace

You summed it up nicely, it's gone a bit too far. Isn't Hardline supposed to be an event pushing the limit of racing instead of being Rampage 2.0? That doesn't look like a feature any world cup rider with any chance at the overall would want to risk their whole World Cup season to hit. On another safety note, isn't it a little huberistic to build a jump that large with the consequences it has at a location that is notoriously windy?

Not a fan of this. I believe they got it right for Maydena but I think they’re going to really narrow the field with shite like this

Get rid of it. There's already a cutline down to the big jumps that looks gnarly enough off camber rocks and it'd steep as.

Great dialogue bro, agree with you wholeheartedly.

I think my opinion on this matter is irrelevant. What's important is what the riders say. But you're making absolutely valid points. One must ask themselves: Is it called Red Bull HARDLINE or Red Bull RISKY LINE?

This is the worst Jump ever made and way too much. Dont force athletes to risk there life.

Thats why its called HARD LINE 🔥

Hmm i get what your saying, but this wasn't some brainwave of media guys in redbull office thinking "yeah this will be ace - clueless" this has come from rider input, if the riders reckon they can do it, they a good chance redbull can make that happen 🤷‍♂️ its not called Hardline for no reason

I guess it’s like the IoM TT that’s just started as well, the risk is there, it’s a stand alone event, not in a cup series so the decision is solely with the rider to accept the risk or not. This is scary absolutely but I would leave the choice with the riders

This sort of stuff has got to a point where I'd have to watch a replay after the event and knowing everyone has got down safe, but watching live would just have me too much on edge. I think they can get rid of that feature.

I think they have rushed it - they should definitely do the jump, but take a few years to build a proper structure with heaps of safety features built into the structure. A well build structure with chunky wooden beams would sit so much nicer into the landscape too. It would be an investment in the future of the race. This scaffold thing just screams of rushing and cost-cutting.

Hardline isn't for everyone.

Funny how you used the word "anxiety" in regards to watching the even or the event itself... Last year's Rampage I had the same feeling. I only wanted it to be over and that nobody got hurt... The infamous battleship hop on, hop off, Brendog's Canyon Gap, etc. This new jump in Wales, is not a jump, it's a stunt trick... Coming up short, or to the side or even way deep in that jump, will have massive consequences, and I dare say that safety nets won't do much... Yes, many people will say that the gap isn't that big and whatnot, but the exposure and the high likelyhood of a bit of wind, can literally throw you off in an instant. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love riding and also chase my own progression, but when it can literally end your life or your life as you know it, I'm sorry but I can't understand how that makes sense to anyone...

People have been saying the same (too risky) about Rampage for some time. Same could be said for eg DarkFest. There is a question about how brands & marketing (in this case, RB, Monster) are getting events into this position. In the end, it is driven by the consumer. Us. WE are the ones demanding riders put life and limb on the line - a kinda "Hunger Games" environment. If we didn't, the events wouldn't go this way. Simple. On the other hand, riders today are (reasonably) safely doing sh1t that was unimaginable just a few years ago. The same goes in eg freediving. Real risk. And athletes have an inherent drive to outdo themselves (if not everyone else). Perhaps it is what it is and we'll see the specialisation more distinctly, ie the top WC riders unlikely to compete in Rampage/Hardline/DarkFest due to sponsorship priorities, a 2nd tier of WC riders doing both (BK, Erlangsen et al) and some "Freeracers" focusing on the sketchy events (Brendog, Jono, other ex WC racers, etc). Despite our lust for insanity, I'd like to believe we don't REALLY want to see anyone hurt - especially those of us who have had some decent injuries. But we won't find the limits if we don't push.

They should definitely add a net. Without a net its just too risky. With a net its totally fine IMO, these riders hit jumps this big pretty often.

I’m on the fence. It’s progression. But it also takes an iconic spot and ruins that nature feel. It’s an epic jump over a picturesque creek! It has consequences. All the progressive riders will want to hit that jump!!!! That all bein said....... Bring on the Progression and the Gnar!

I think when you get a professional rider like Dean questioning the validity of a feature like that, not even for himself, but as he says for his friends literally risking their lives. You have to think it's gone too far. I'm all up for an exciting course to watch as a punter but not at the potential expense of the riders participating. I mean we only need to look at the various Rampage examples of when it's gone wrong to know where we should realistically be putting limits on not only what's possible but whats's relatively safe. Clicks, views, accolades etc should never be at the expense of the participants.