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For a series that's so enamoured with RNG, the playerbase instead stubbornly clings to averages and predictive tierlists. Personal Experience Matters Nothing, until it suddenly does because Dorcas got speed blessed, or Sain died to a crit, or Hector got shafted by level ups, and then your whole game plan has to account for a lot of factors that a tierlist or a guide cannot possibly include. Fire Emblem as a series is heavily based on chance manipulation, from the weapon triangle, to terrain, to supports. These are all game mechanics you can interact with and plan around. You can't plan around hidden growth rates that you can't influence, you can only react to them. There's a saying in defense studies, which goes "You fight with the army you have, not the army you want" and I think that perfectly applies to Fire Emblem as well.

So I didn't know about using Raven to get the monk, I missed out on picking him up.

You can't say Oswin without saying WIN

I love this analysis and is how I normally feel about 1. People who dunk on this game 2. People who are CZcams shills. I have played this game a lot recently and while I don’t do any particular challenge run. It is very easy to find out how Oswin and Lowen are great because of their defensive prowess and Lowen because of the versatility his defense brings. Granted, by chapter 20+ he wasn’t killing anything even as a promoted by lvl 17 Paladin, but he was easily one of the most versatile traders and resistant units in the army. Once Heath came around I valued Heath more, and then added Farina at that. But chapter 11 to 20-ish without that trio of units the game would have been a lot more miserable. Same thing with those who dunk on Eliwood and while he is not great, his accuracy and the kills he can get early on with rapier are very clutch for your weaker units. Casual elitism doesn’t even need LTC-ing to understand it (ok to a certain extent) they just need to stop being online

I really like Oswin, I almost feel like he's the true Jeigan of FE7. Marcus never really falls off, even after other characters surpass him in combat, he can still help out due to being able use silvers, having 8 movement, rescue dropping, etc. Not to mention that enemy quality is low in FE7 so he remains viable for a long time. Oswin starts off amazing and is basically unkillable for a good 10 chapters. His movement sucks, but there are plenty of opportunities for him to get a ton of XP without moving much (ch 13x, ch15-17. On ch18 Pirate ship, a promoted Oswin makes the right and bottom sides of the map into a complete joke. On ch20 Dragon's Gate he can choke any point by himself, and ch22 he can hold the center if you give him a pure water/barrier staff. After that though, he starts to drop off as he's no longer able to double most enemies, and more powerful magic users start appearing. Sure he's good on Crazed Beast, but the enemies on that map are so pathetic anyone can deal with them. He's a total liability on Cog of Destiny where most of the magic users are a serious threat. By then though, you've got plenty of powerful characters to finish the game with, so he's not needed anymore. I deployed him for the last time on my HHM iron man on Sands of Time because I thought he'd be helpful holding off the generals, but he got slept and murdered by the druids. RIP to a real one.

Oswin's bases are excellent for early HHM and his stat spread even helps him hold his own in messy chapters like Four-Fanged Assault (Linus)

did you wear a tie while recording

bawlsh

I love Radiant Dawn. Meg exemplifies this point quite a bit. The chapter where you fight Laguz, she can tank a few hits and can guard choke points and healers. Units you want to train (I like Edward for example) van finish any laguz she manages to hit

Of course Oswin is good, this game is a chokepoiny extravaganza!

If the three houses engage discussions have thought me anything it's that fire emblem discussions are often filled with stubborn dumb arguments they probably didn't even come up with themselves and they say those arguments in the most toxic way they can think of

excellent video, i'd love more like this

Modern Fire Emblem games... are TRASH

Oswin is hella handsome with his strong jawline and gangster stare. Sorry Lowen, in this household, we prefer beefy men

This is such a good video. Easiest sub I’ve had in a long time

The funny part about this is that there's another layer of elitism, the people on the fire emblem reddit discord who wholeheartedly claim Lowen is completely shit and worthless

As someone who isn't interested in speedruns or LTC's, but mostly does ironmans recreationally, I find Oswin a pretty fantastic unit. You can solo entire maps with him even when rng-screwed, and that's not true for vast majority of units in the game.

I give the boots to Oswin. Fight me.

I came in expecting to dislike this video, since most complaints of elitism I have seen boil down to "I hate LTCs, I hate anime haters, Fates is Good, Elitists are mean and killed my family", but you actually tackled an entirely different subset of people than I imagined. Perhaps for that reason, the video should have said "casual elitism" instead, but as clickbait it works very well so I dunno. I do appreciate you making this video, first of all getting over the armchair "Expert" who never plays the games and always does hypothetical runs in their head of how the game actually runs is cathartic to me. They are very annoying, especially because these aren't experts, they just heard a youtuber say something once and never cared to think more on it. I also appreciate the praise you gave FE7's gameplay. I despise how reductive people get about this game when it has a solid amount of side objectives and things to make it more difficult. Most of them treat Marcus as a huge oversight that made the game too easy, when it's actually intentional. He's strong but not too strong on purpose, and there are myriads of objectives so you can divide your forces up, and you can choose which objective Marcus will go to. Great video! P.D: Something that comes to mind: Elitists would be able to tell you how to make Rebecca useful, but a Casual Elitist would just go "lol Marcus rescues bartre and weakens everything", which is far from helpful.

Bloody tears first map? You've got my attention

I recognize that screen layout. I miss nadnap. Hope he's doing well. With dondon resurrected from the dead maybe he's next

I soloed the final (pre final boss) map with oswin

I've never actually played Hector Hard Mode (or even Eliwood Hard Mode) but I plan to later this year. But also never really used Lowen in either story Normal Mode. Always use Oswin, but I don't bench him, and actually give him the first Knight Crest. Also I never skip Lyn Mode so I always have Kent and Sain trained, and one of them promoted in Lyn Mode. Usually Kent for story reasons, even though I know Sain is a better unit. The Caelin Knight Commander should be the Paladin, not the Sub Commander. It would be weird if the 2nd in command character was a promoted class but the first in command wasn't. In any case this video was good food for thought for when I do eventually get to EHM and HHM in a few months. Right now I'm playing Three Houses on Maddening leading the Blue Lions. But that's a totally different conversation.

I have been going through the Manga rebalance of FE7 on hector hard mode. And yeah Oswin came in clutch on several occasions in the early game and several units I would have actively avoided using I found a legit use for even if it was just one or two maps. Those small contributions are all it takes to save another unit or the run

Doesn't have a horse, 0/10. JK, as a casual player I love armor knights.

Imagine if Nintendo kept making FE games with gba graphics. Would be awesome

I don't know how anyone could compare fe7 to fe8 and get them conflated. You only have to play them once to realize the obvious differences lol.

''get all their opinions from liek 2 years old Mekkah videos'' So basically 80% of this community, right ?

As a very casual enjoyer i love Bosswin. A friend of mine once said: "Give hima Vulneray, 2 Javelins and he is gonna CHOKE. THAT. POINT!" He is a cool dude and great Support for Dorcas after he got his A Rank with Bartre, which together with Bartre&Canas B complets the frontline breakthrough sqaud. Dont mess with the boys

Oswins bulk has always been kinda overkill for me. Its better than Hectors for sure but not enough to really matter all that much imo. Maybe in the very early chapters but Hector usually catches up pretty fast. I still agree he's a good unit though. I think Seth being able to more easily solo maps is also just a testament of how easier of a game fe8 is compared to fe7. You mentioned Seth is better than Marcus as a unit, I would agree with this in a vacuum but I think I would still rather have Marcus in FE7 than Seth in FE8. Sacred stones would definitely be much more difficult without Seth but still pretty manageable. Blazing blade without Marcus would be kind of a nightmare. For me it would be like comparing Ryoma from Birthright to Rutger in Binding blade. In a vacuum Ryoma is a better unit but Id still rather have Rutger in fe6 over Ryoma in birthright any day. At that point it becomes a matter of perspective really. Do you value Seth more because of how easy it is for him to solo maps in a game where enemies are already weak and more manageable to deal with? Or do you value a unit like Marcus that can tank and kill enemy units that need to be teamed up on by your weaker units in order to actually take them down?

I think a problem with fe unit discussion is that people don't value units that are good for a little while to plug in a gap and then fall off, most people think you should use a unit the whole game or something when a unit being useful for 3 to 5 maps is still good even if you replace them afterwards. I think FE fans should star tackling maps one at a time like people in other strategy games do instead of only thinking about the endgame viability imo.

10:01 jumpscared by myself I myself cheesed Hector mode ch15 but that was more because I don't like fe7 that much and didn't want to give it much thought, but I think your point about side objectives being missed holds up. Good video! 👍

All the units are useable if given proper investment.

I guess this is off topic but the Talons Alight defense chapter example is actually another point in Marcus' favor, because you can bait the boss Sealen into attacking with his longbow on the first turn, and then have base speed Marcus double Sealen and nearly one round him. from there you can choose to defeat Sealen at any moment to completely end reinforcements spawns for the rest of the chapter if you didn't care about missing EXP

As someone who has played FE7, Lowen is very much less useful than Oswin, especially when you do Lyn mode before Hector/Eliwood, you get to have 2 cavaliers who are probably more higher level than Lowen. Also, Oswin is such a tank in battle, where Lowen dies real fast in my playthroughs

Lol I've been playing this game casually since it came out, with my most recent run a few months ago on NSO (annoying I have to beat it a couple times just to get back to Hector Hard Mode, but it's been fun). Gotta say, I've never found the appeal of LTC runs, and I can't stand promoting units who aren't level 20. I don't think I've ever seen Marcus (or Seth) go beyond level 2 in my life. I literally don't care one drop about tier lists, other than to laugh at people arguing about them. Everyone have fun in your own way!

Oswin better in Ironman, Lowen better at LTC. Oswin's got better growths, better bases, closer to promotion, better weapon rank. However, Lowen gets more mov.

Those are some interesting facts, but you opinions are automatically discarded because I always use oswin and bring him along throughout the entire game. Also Lowen sucks because I once got a lvl 20/10 Lowen with 9 strength.

I'll admit to being guilty of this, I haven't actually played FE7 in a long time but I do refer to the dondon 0% LTCs a lot in unit discussion. That being said I at least cite examples from the LTCs when making my arguments so I try to avoid talking completely out of my ass. I also avoid unit discussion on games I haven't personally played such as DS Emblem and Fates, though I do try and take in some periphery knowledge. For 3H maddening discussion on GameFAQs, I remember an incident where a user was kinda infamous for giving out extremely dubious advice all the time. Then they came out and admitted to not having actually played maddening mode at one point, and suddenly everything made sense. Studying the maddening meta and actually experiencing it are 2 entirely different things, and that obviously applies to other games hardest difficulty modes as well.

I think one think people underlook is the short-term usefulness of characters. Like if the unit is force deployed. there isnt really too much of a reason NOT to use them for that chapter. even if you arent going to use them long term

Lowen is trash cos he’s lowen end of debate

1) The funny part is, oswin is better than lowen because with his bases and high weapon rank he contributes more, lowen has low bases and even his growths suck " But but!! Lowen has a horse and his class is better!! " He also has better movement stat!! Having a good class doesn't make a unit great by default, you STILL need good stats and weapon ranks to actually contribute to the army, which lowen lacks in both As movement matters so little in FE7 because not only the game has so many defense maps, it also has small map design and so many maps don't punish you for having low mov because of how they're designed, many maps are not only small but offer little vast space and tight area that you're sitting down in one area fighting enemies, nvm the rain, snow and the water maps lol, there's very few maps where having 8 mov actually changes anything Also many of your arguments about seth vs marcus are wrong " Marcus is slower " Marcus is also in a a game where enemies are super slow and also massively weighed down by their weapons making them even slower than they already are, you also can just give him speedwings You using ch13x which is like one single map shows how little thought went into making this comparison " Frailer " they have the same bulk lol, and again FE7 enemies are weak and you can give him a drcao shield " He doesn't gain levels as fast " what are you smoking ? Both FE7 HHM and FE8 have the exact same xp formula lol, and both of Marcus and Seth ORKO enemies at base ? " His level ups tend to be worse " 0% growths runs exist and both Marcus and seth still do a fantastic job with thier base stats and weapon ranks Not only did you use one bad example of how you can't solo most FE7 maps by using a freaking defense map as point, but your Merlinus argument is also dumb because in that scenario with DD151 it's a 0% growths run, which means Merlinus isn't actually the dodge tank he is, and thus you actually need to protect him lol The example of whereabouts unknown doesn't also change the fact that you're literally still soloing 95% of the map with Marcus Also lol Heath has much better def stat than Lowen at base " An average lowen is going to beat them in everything " >Shows lvl 7 lowen vs lvl 4-5 sain and kent, instead of having them at same level

8:37 what's an ETC??

I like this video a lot. Thanks for making it. Before I make my comment, I should also include that when I make tier judgments, I, too, am also skipping Lyn's story and do not have it in mind when considering characters' tiers. That being said, let's talk. Personally, I do have Oswin in the C-tier because he's what I want and expect in a unit - solid contribution, but not game-defining or game-breaking. It might just be that I have more units in lower tiers than other people, but I kind of see C tier as the gathering of units where I definitely want to use in my playthroughs but aren't exactly 'special' overall. As a frame of reference, Lowen, who, disclaimer, is my favorite unit in the game and therefore should be extra biased for, is someone I would have actually closer to B-tier than A (i.e., he floats in the space between them to me, having some arguments for A, but more for B; I can see him being placed in either). Lowen is really, really good. He's got great availability utility like you mentioned to rearrange inventories and canto back/forth, he can rescue people, has a good class and is granted an early promotion item. He can be amazing beyond imagination. But that's assuming he's used well; maybe the player knows how to manipulate the RNG string to get him the right levels or dodges, etc, or they cater to him by feeding him kills, stat boosters, or specific weapons. Typically, in my experience, he's usually just good enough if casually played around, or possibly even lacking because it's easy to see how he might disappoint people with his stats (he can have a difficult time meeting benchmarks, especially in casual playthroughs, or in runs where the RNG string is scrambled so people can't memorize their way through chapters). However, his biggest flaw, to me, is that deploy slots run real tight - you get other units who can fulfill the same obligations and even different ones. This isn't to say that he can't be used, but maybe, there are other people who are better. For example, Isadora eventually joins the fray and I find myself often using her as the main secondary Paladin, with Lowen often being pushed down to the tertiary horseman. Depending on the playthrough, it feels like I can't bring myself to deploy Lowen because maybe I feel the need to deploy another Pegasus sister instead, if I need someone whose main job is to rescue-drop, or maybe I find myself wanting more combat in a unit like Harken or Hawkeye. In a way, this kind of puts a bit of a damper on his availability because he's not always going to be fielded; if Oswin is subject to falloff, so is Lowen, albeit the latter's is less drastic. That being said, I think overall, it's inarguable that Lowen _can_ (and should) do more than Oswin. But that alone isn't enough to necessarily make Lowen as far from Oswin as people might believe. Players have to also remember that Lowen can't actually do Oswin's job in the early game, at least not in HHM. The point that you made, which I also have weighted in the past, is how to consider the weight of his contribution, which is the first thing any player, new or old, can tell about him because it's immediate. He is the tankiest member of the squad that isn't Marcus in the early game and can do things others can't - so if he isn't there, is there even a midgame (and beyond) to reach? I can see this as a case to move Oswin up into B tier because he's granted some uniqueness, at least for a time (ten chapters is nothing to sneeze at) and that could warrant him being better than the C-tier range. Something that I thought about while writing this is the fact that I never consider promoting Oswin. I think the last time I even tried to promote Oswin, it was in 2005. Yet he is still relevant, and useful in his niche. Lowen is raised with the express purpose of fielding a second Paladin as soon as possible, and so, it should be noted that Oswin doesn't even need that extra resource. Granted, Lowen's only other competition would be Sain or Kent, but like you brought up, they can have the second Crest, however far down the line it seems. The point is, it makes it clear to the player that Lowen ought to be funneled experience; in a way, Lowen is saved by his class, little competition for the promo item, and the fact that it comes so early. Oswin is good in spite of his class; if he had these same stats but was a cavalier or possibly anything other than a knight, I assume most people would call it an improvement over the 4 movement. This was fun to think about - hope you make more videos in the future.

So from what I gather, is that, FE7 is better because you can play with Canas

Bosswin

This video wasn't at all what I expected at a glance. For a little bit, I was worried that I might fit under the label of casual elitism since I definitely do watch Mekkah and absorb a lot of what he says, but I think I am a little less paranoid about it now. I know that I shouldn't go around telling people how to play Fire Emblem, I'm just not knowledgeable enough for that, so thank you for reassuring me about myself even though that's not what the video set out to do. I'm sorry if this was a bit of a bother to read, I hope you enjoy the rest of your day.

Lower better than Kent and Sain? Say that to my level 20->2 Paladin Sain who I got after pressing end turn for 5 hours without speed up as he sat unequipped on a fort dodging/getting attacked by 2 enemies for 1 exp a turn. Smug face imagine not having a second Paladin by Noble Lady, unplayable probably. Seriously though, I’d probably have more appreciation for Lowen and this discussion as a whole if I enjoyed FE7 more. I’ve probably only beaten it all the way through 5 or 6 times, which isn’t a lot to gain the kind of experience you need for such a niche discussion.

From my experience, a Lyn mode trained cav + wallace's knights crest makes the game almost too easy. from the moment they join they can take on just as much combat as Marcus, if not more. But yeah, Lyn mode completely derails the already rocky conversation I agree as well with the video as a whole. Many people see a units class or whatnot and make a judgement based off that alone, without really analyzing them and what they can actually provide.

Sooo the fire emblem community its toxic? Who would guess. Seth its everyone's friends its like Tom in myspace. Also YES OSWIN its a good unit, actually the one of the phew generals in the entire franchise that actually do a good job.