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Thank you for the detailed directions! I really appreciate the time you took to share this.

I'm not a plumber, so I haven't seen it all (and my advice is worth the price charged) but it sounds to me like if water is coming out of the overflow, well away from the drain, the hole where it leads out at the bottom is blocked, allowing mold to grow in the cavity. Possibly down the p-trap as well. That sounds like bad news and doing a total clean of the drain is a good starting point to see if it is clear or not. That involves taking the entire drain assembly off the sink. Not fun. Doable. But not fun at all.

Thank you for the support and thanks for letting me know. Interesting on the no thumbs up because feedback is good and I didn't disable it so I'll look into it. Best of luck on your project.

Those are surprising results. I wonder if the pipes also expand with the heat. What are your pipes made of? I might have to try a day test like you since most of my tests were at night. The good news is you don't have a leak if it held for 45 minutes. Are you concerned about one?

@@NoMoreLeaks The pipes are copper. I have water coming up through our concrete slab, but the water appears only when the slab is covered with a plastic sheet (or flooring). Otherwise, it looks dry. I have separated the cold and hot water lines, so I can test the pressure in each one individually. The hot water line is the hardest one to test because the pipe cools during the test, and I get a pressure drop of about 5 psi before it stops losing pressure. So, I don't think I have a leak, but I also don't know where the water is coming from. I also did a sewer water test, and there's no leak there either.

If the pressure doesn't continue to drop, I agree: it's not a leak from the supply line. How's the drainage around the house? Gutters? Slope around the house harboring any rain runoff?

@@NoMoreLeaks The ground slopes nicely away from the slab in the front and back of the home. On one side, there is a french drain that was put in maybe 15 years ago, but the ground does not slope towards the slab. It's level ground. We did have new fencing put in around the home about 2 years ago. The fence installers noticed quite a bit of water about two feet down in the post holes, but not in all of the holes. I opened up the wall behind the bathtub to check for faucet or drain leaks there. There is a hole in the concrete slab where the drain goes to the sewer main. I can see dirt below the slab through that hole. The top of the dirt looks dry. But poking down into the dirt with an 8 inch long screwdriver, the dirt is just a little moist about 6 to 8 inches below the surface of the dirt. I don't know if this is normal or not. I can't figure out where all the water coming through the slab is coming from.

Is it all of them or just one sensor?

If there water meter does not change--mine certainly seemed to be sticky and was not good at detecting small leaks (czcams.com/video/hEMMLF-j4r4/video.html) I'd suggest getting a cheap water pressure gauge (czcams.com/video/wK-XSDcj8KE/video.html) and try this method: czcams.com/video/I4F4HV4nipk/video.html. I hope that helps before having to call out a forensic plumber.

About 30 feet, down a hallway with a few walls in between.

Glad to hear it helped. Best of luck with your project!

Just the pvc sleeve. We butted the insulation up against the pvc sleeve. You can see this at 3:50. Some dirt will probably get in between but not much. Best of luck with your project!

100% agree. Thanks for pointing that out!

Thanks for the recommendation and sharing exactly why. I'll have to check them out.

Thank you. Glad to hear it helped!

Hi Joe. It has been a pretty busy summer--I hope my reply is not too late. At this point in time I do not have a good recommendation for any system to go in our hot garages. Phyn's electronics will keep going, but the actual material was starting to break down internally. Flo's has some issue where a gasket or something internally breaks down and water mixes with the electronics and fries the unit. Neither company is working with me at the moment to improve their product. I'm trying out FireBot now, but it certainly does not have the measurement features that Phyn, Flo and other in-line water monitors offer.

I have the same problem

Is this your first few times of the year using irrigation? It is one of the downsides on these systems--the startup of irrigation and pool refills can trip up these devices. Have you tried setting up a manual override?

It's good to hear from you! You are an OG! Glad to hear you upgraded from CPVC. Did Flo catch the leak? You definitely prevented future leaks replacing it all. I hope the leak did not cause too much damage. The Flo sensors are on the upper end of the cost range, but they pair with the system. Maybe go my route--buy a few at a time and put Govee sensors everywhere else in the meantime?

@@NoMoreLeaks I agree that the Flo sensors would be the best to add to the Flo ecosystem but they are prohibitively expensive. If only you could connect something like the Govee sensors through IFTTT to tell Flo to shut off, that would be a great smart solution. Maybe someone knows of another way.

Absolutely agree. Unfortunately, Flo stopped supporting IFTTT in 2020. In doing research for another video I just discovered it looks like they are also dropping Alexa support (although interestedly enough the Moen website still clearly says they support it). Alexa and Google integration was not a big loss because there was no way to do anything useful that you couldn't already do through the app. But I highly doubt any of these companies will support IFTTT since they want to sell their sensors. No judgment there either because when you have a catastrophic failure it is worth every penny not ripping out your bathroom / kitchen / carpet, walls. But the upfront cost is significant. If you find another way I'm all ears!

Whew! Good thing you were ahead of it by having the sink mats already. That's the perfect intro to my sink mat video where I compared three different sink mats on the market: czcams.com/video/wGpcGULa71Q/video.html. They really can save the day. Which mat did you end up choosing? Hopefully everything is buttoned up--no more leaks and you never hear the crazy loud Govee sensors going off (due to no leaks).

That's terrible! There are a couple possible scenarios. The drain holes within the sink/at your drain stopper could be plugged. Or you could have a sink like the one in 1:21 where the overflow is small and can't handle a high flow coming out of the faucet. I hope the damage wasn't too bad!

Please don't delete this. :) That's a great explanation. Really appreciate you sharing your knowledge. This is one of the best comments on this video--and people often learn more from comments than the video itself.

Here's a video I made on the subject: czcams.com/video/YOiZ_WEasPU/video.html your local code may vary, but I cover the base code there. Best of luck on your project!

Good luck!

I opened up the Flo app and found this email in the contact us section: support@meetflo.com I'd be surprised if Moen doesn't have ops in Australia and they could possibly send one quicker.

I’ll try them again but they have not been helpful so far :(

The added insulation sounds like you did some serious work on your home and made some great choices on the functional features. Nicely done!

@@NoMoreLeaks thank you! I did a test and have an update about it: after getting out of the shower I went to my kitchen to see if the hot water was hot from the sink tap. The water that immediately flowed out was tepid, but in about 1 second got fully hot. I'm not sure if that moment of tepid water was just from the water between where the hot water line splits between the sink and the dishwasher or something else, but it goes to show that even in what I think are the most neurotically ideal circumstances for the water to reach the dishwasher hot there's still a chance it isn't. Your video is great!

It sounds like Flo would be installed in your garage and not in a conditioned space? Our water main is outside a bedroom--so Flo had to be installed outdoors here in AZ. After the first Flo failed, I covered Flo #2-4 with shade made out of wood (we were out of town for the most part and could not do much more than replace it 4 times in 1.3 years and sending #5 which is still in service in a conditioned basement). Something about the heat kills units and, personally, I would not recommend putting Flo in our hot garages. If you do end up buying it, I *highly* suggest planning to enroll in FloProtect. Interesting that your pressure fluctuates that much! My pressure in Mesa was a steady 55-65 PSI in the years that I had Flo and then Phyn.

@@NoMoreLeaks - Garage yes. But at least on a wall of the manufactured home on copper pipe that is routed through the crawl space. Arizona garages can get hot for sure. I can see that the Moen Flo being built with a lot of plastic could be a plus. Generally water contains minerals such as iron or calcium. During water treatments they often add something to take the taste out, but the minerals are still there. I am a retired engineer that has built houses, race cars and airplanes. I was hoping to not have to work on plumbing problems on a regular basis. I am still looking at it though.

No, tracer wire is not grounded. If it is needed they will hook up to either end of the bare wire to detect the line. Best of luck on your project!

Oh no! He didn't install them on the spot to finish the job? Honestly, I don't know. I'll have to punt to a plumber's expertise and I'm not sure if something like that is mentioned in code. if it is OK, the outer pipe better be bigger than ours because it wouldn't fit. Best of luck on your project!

@@NoMoreLeaks re: bigger pipes... If I remember you came back later and used a larger pipe so that it would fit over the PEX fittings. The final pipe I thought was big enough to run a trace wire, but I could have been wrong. If you can ask your plumber that would be nice to finish the thought for people on-line asking the same thing, but it will be awhile before I need to do anything like this (I hope anyway). re: the plumber... No he did not. I should have forced him to do so, but working with this one was an epic pain. My original plumber had a massive heart attack as he was drawing up the job, and could not take it on. The replacement was brought in by my contractor. He claimed he had expertise with PEX, but kept doing things wrong that we so out of code that I seriously doubted he ever saw a professional PEX installation in his life. He actually wanted to leave the pipe left unsupported as it came out of the wall onto his custom manifold. I think I had spec'ed a Viega (or similar) manifold, and offered to pay for that on top of their quoted job they had with the contractor. They just went ahead and cobbled one together with HomeDepot 1/4-turn valves, and a couple of plastic and copper manifolds that hooked up to the shutoff valves. I did not catch this until he had that monstrosity installed, and there was no way he was going to take the time to redo it... (EXPLETIVES!)... Next he installed the frost free hose bibs incorrectly (they were pointing up, and we not mounted to anything so they wiggled when you turned them on). I called him on this, and asked him to correct it within the next week -- before the foam sprayers came in to spray the walls, and I would have to dig out the insulation to make the fix. That is when he quit the job, and told me to transfer the job to someone else. A month later I threatened to fire the contractor because they had done almost no work in an entire year, and they also quit. My next contractor was good and professional, but we were not able to close out the renovation contracts because of the first plumber still had an open contract. I ended up writing the head of the plumbing inspection for help. That plumber told them that his contract was with the contractor and not me, and that when I fired the contractor their contract was null and void. This was all a lie because they quit before the contractor quit AND I had proof in the email chain I sent where I called him on installing the hose bib incorrectly, sent him the link to the manufacturer's installation instructions and why it *must* be installed that way, and his response was to quit. I was not privy to what all happened when the the State plumbing inspector realized he had been lied to, but he did come back, finish the ~$200 of work that needed finished (which I payed him for), and closed out the permit. I did learn that the contractor was jerking him around and not paying him for jobs, etc., and hedid not want to deal with it. Asking him to do anything extra after the permit was finished was not something I was keen to do. As you can imagine I will not recommend him, but I have also not called him out by name -- at least he came back and finished the job. Len The Plumber on the other hand sent out someone to finish the job charged me $2,000 to do about $200 of work (under the agreement that they would transfer the permit and finish the job), then refused to close the permit, and the inspection showed that everything they did was wrong. That got investigated and I found that Len The Plumber sent an unsupervised apprentice who gave me a card stating they were a master plumber, and said they he would transfer the permit. That the extra charge was to account for the liability to have to fix anything that was not right with the first job. In the end, LTP returned what they charged, and both LTP and the apprentice had letters of reprimand from the state inspector for a half dozen serious violations... No, the renovations on this property was a (EXPLETIVE) show.

Oh wow. Just wow. That's a terrible experience and one that gives contractors a bad name. Glad you had that all in writing! SMH... And despite all of that you are educating yourself with more information on plumbing. That's impressive.

@@NoMoreLeaks I will probably be the one maintaining things for quite a while, so it pays to learn all one's life long. I may end up installing the drains myself, or hiring a plumber if code requires it. It is my understanding that I can do minor work to repair things, but I am not sure where the line between being allowed to do it myself, and requiring a permit. I will check into that, but I do expect that I will eventually have to replace a couple of the lines because: * he did not mount the pipes on the studs, but ran all 12 lines THROUGH all the joists. * the transition from the copper to the PEX from the outside main may have been kinked, but is not leaking, but you got to wonder if that will weaken it. * he spliced several sections to save money - even though it was specified "no splices" and "home run" - I would have gladly spent the extra money on another spool of PEX... <sigh...> Enough of my belly aching. It is not leaking, and I have a clue to what I need to do to fix things when it comes time. With any luck I will find a good, professional, PEX experienced, plumber.

No stupid questions here--we all start somewhere. 😄 Plumbing didn’t cross my mind before I had a leak. It sounds like the plan is to increase the volume of the system. Even if you have a closed system it should not be a problem. Worst case scenario, if you have a closed system and the expansion tank goes out the pressure has more volume to disseminate the increased pressure. Let me know if that doesn't make sense.

@@NoMoreLeaks ok I think you answered it :). Thanks 👍

I would assume so that way they cam sell more sets. I can't say that is true with 100% accuracy, but what I can say is that I have v1 and v2 and they both are in the same app. You can also rename each device so that you know if it is home or work. There are some differences between every device and I am waiting on one more set to arrive and test before creating the comparison video. If you aren’t looking for a fully integrated system with a shutoff, this set can't really be beat. The price, ability to send notifications and the ear piercing alarm are really top notch.

I believe I answered your question on the other video. If you have any other questions please ask. Have a great vacation!

Thanks for sharing this. That is a VERY good observation. So very true.

100% agree. It is hard to justify. If you figure out a schedule then it's an inconvenience to try to be within the 'on' time or if you use it when the system is off there isn't much point.

A timer is typically used for a circulation pump to operate for shower/wash times in the morning and evening. This avoids waiting (water wastage) for the warm water to come through the taps around the house.

You are most welcome. I hope you are enjoying peace of mind!

Yea and it’ll hold just long enough for the check to clear. Then it’s someone else’s problem. /s

Glad to hear it! I hope your project goes well.

That's the plan! Two holes, no trenching, remove and replace. Perhaps there is a better way, such as an intermediate shutoff mid line if there is a huge run so you could test which side has a leak. Our front yard is only about 20 feet. After making this video I toured one of AFT's high end jobs around here. They are doing something similar with all their runs in schedule 80 and that was a massive run going up a steep grade. I'd love to hear if there is a better or different way!

@@NoMoreLeaks makes sense. A lot of trouble to find a leak. Dealing with a slab leak now. So hearing just about everything wrong with plumbing but not hearing anyone tell me where my leak is at. Frustrating. Guessing you have shutoff at house and at street.

It is frustrating! We had the same thing and we hired a forensic plumber to help us find the leak in our hot water line. Here's my take on how to pinpoint a leak with a water pressure gauge (I do have a shutoff before the meter and at the point of entry to the house but the idea is the same no matter where the shutoff is located): czcams.com/video/I4F4HV4nipk/video.html if you don't have a water pressure gauge here is how to use a water meter. I hope that helps and you get it sorted soon!

@@NoMoreLeaks the leak detector found the leak. Most likely will do a repipe after the house cutoff from the main line. Drill a hole in interior wall through concrete and repipe through interior wall and through attic then back down interior wall where the manifold is located.

Glad it was found! Sounds like our houses plumbing will look the same. Pulling PEX through an attic is no fun. I'm glad it's not in the heat of the summer for you.

I went to look back at the screen recording I took. The only setting I thought was odd was having to have my location turned on. That and Bluetooth enabled were the only two settings I had to enabled during setup. Otherwise, I wonder the gateway is faulty. Have you reached out to customer service with a request?

Thank you very much for your advice and reply when I ended up doing was removing the paired and repairing them that took care of the issue. Thanks again your videos are amazing. Keep up the great work

Glad to hear you got it sorted. I appreciate you coming back to share so it can help others too!

@@NoMoreLeaks Thank you. Keep up the amazing videos.

Hi there. I responded on the comment you left on another video. I hope it is helpful and you are able to get it working.

Thank you I realised that I asked the same question on both different videos. I apologise thank you very much for your advice and help. It’s working great now